View Full Version : Projection HDTV BURN IMAGE ?

05-02-2002, 11:39 PM
ok..i'm staring to do some major research on hdtv's( a 60" and above projection type)..and i have one major issue......

i've done some research ( and some folks gave me some great info...ahem MAX..thax bud)..but i wanna make MAJOR certain before i throw away 3Gz or more down the drain.

DO i have to worry about burn-in images on that type of set?
if so...so please explain why...if not...please explain why....if theirs variables envolved...please explain them..

the main reason i'm gonna upgrade to a top nopnotch hdtv is for the xbox...i can't take the chance of blowing all that money though(since burn-in oviously isn't under warranty)...

thanx for all the help in advance fellows..

05-03-2002, 01:33 AM
Burn in occurs in all television sets. It generally occurs when a particular pixel (the tv screen is made up of a bunch of little dots of color called pixels) stops functioning properly. This happens when a pixel remains at a given color for an extended period of time.

Almost all imaging devices exhibit this behavior, even your eyes. If you look at a particular pattern (a red dot for example) for an extended period of time and then immediately look at a solid white colored object (such as a wall or door), you will be able to make out the pattern (but it will be inversely colored). This happens in your eyes for a different reason than it happens in a television (plus your eyes get better after a few seconds), but the principle is still the same.

There is nothing magical about the Xbox. It is no worse for burn in than any other video device. The rub comes in when you do something silly like put a game on pause and leave for a weekend. The same color is repeatedly displayed by a given pixel, 30 times per second, for 4 days. This pixel becomes "fatigued" if you will, and the color of the pixel becomes incorrect. Another rub is HUDs (Heads Up Displays). This refers to the health bars, status indicators, compases, and other GUI elements that are constantly in a fixed position on your screen. Since these objects are fixed in position and generally do not change colors, they can be a major contributor to screen burn in. The only reason burn in is a concern with the Xbox is that the same graphic tends to be displayed in the same position on the screen for an extended period of time. If this can be avoided or minimized, burn in will be less likely.

Projection TVs are more sensitive to screen burn in than direct view (standard) televisions. I'm not sure on the physics of why, but I hear that they are. If you want to do real gaming on a television, and want support for the upper video modes (720p specifically), then you want to get a Plasma TV. Plasma sets are not anywhere near as sensitive to burn in, and they provide the 720p resolution. I have yet to see a projection TV that supports 720p. They are, of course, more expensive. A low end plasma display will run around $4k, while a good one will be about $8k if you shop around (for a unit like the Viewsonic VPW-500 which is a 50" supporting 1280x768 natively and will receive and display signals up to 1600x1200). Those are mail order prices, not over the counter. If you go to a store, expect the prices to shift to the $7 - $15 K range.

05-03-2002, 10:03 AM
DO NOT GET A PROJECTION TV. It will make a burn image on the screen sooner or later. Why does it accure ???????? Because when you have to fo something like go eating or answer the phone you pause the game.......... well the image freezes on the screen........ thats what makes the burn image. Of course it won't happen the first time or maybe the second time but it will happen and the image will always be there on the screen.......... just like a shadow.
I wouldn't suggest that you buy a plasma tv. Why you ask ??? Because they only last you for 10 years ( of normal tv use ). A regular tv last you about 20 to 25 years ( of normal use ).
Try to get the HDTV from Sony ....... the 41inch is pretty nice and it will satisfy your needs......... or you might wanna try a Tashiba or the Panasonic ones.
Do a good research and you will make the right choice........ i know i did :cool:

05-03-2002, 11:08 AM
The plasma sets do have a short lifespan. This is the only valid arguement against getting one. If you plan on purchasing a television to use for the next 20 years, then you do not want a Plasma. However, this is the only valid arguement against them.

They are smaller, lighter, crisper, have no "focus" issues, have no burn in issues, support MUCH higher resolutions than the projections sets, and are digital in both directions (Projection sets are digitally scanned in one direction and analog in another, which is why you only see 1 set of resolution specs for them and not 2). Screen updates on a Plasma set Kick the holy living ****e out of a Projection screen. Every single pixel on a plasma set can be redrawn at the same time. Plasma sets can also be viewed from almost any angle, where the Projection sets have a very narrow "sweet spot" - you have to be almost directly in front of the TV and at the same level to get a "perfect" picture, otherwise you get some brightness variation in the projection screen.

As for the 10 year lifespan issue: It's 10 years. The technology won't be desirable for that long. 10 years ago it was 1992. DVD was little more than a fantasy for most people. Almost NO one had HDTV. The world wide web, for the most part, did not exist. The fastest computer available was an Intel 80486 - and it was brand spanking new. If memory serves me correctly, the newest console in use was the Sega Genesis. The speed of modem technology was around 1200 - 2400 baud. Try to imagine where technology will be in 2012: I'm sure you are nowhere near correct. Technology has about a 3 year shelf life before new technology is available that should replace it, and about 6 years before replacement becomes a serious issue. With that in mind, a 10 year life, while not an attractive quality, should not be a limiting factor.

l Maximus l
05-03-2002, 11:19 AM
With my 50" Toshiba Widescreen HDTV, I have never had any problems with burn in. Though, it is extremely important to be a little more intuitive if you own an HDTV.

First, be more aware of still images on your screen for extended periods of time. Give your HDTV a rest...it will probably take more than 4 hours for a still image to burn in your screen if it was left on and the image didn't move. This is if you have your contrast up to 100%. Of course, if you are playing an adventure or RPG (like Morrowind), I would strongly recommend turning the contrast down to 50%. This will dramaticially reduce for the possibility of burning an image into your screen. If you decide to put the game on pause to answer the phone, go to the bathroom, or for whatever reason, simply turn off the screen of the HDTV. No big deal. Being smart about it and getting into this habbit is vital for any HDTV or projection TV owner.

Also, it's noteworthy to mention that my 50" Toshiba Widescreen HDTV has a technology built into it in which the HDTV's screen moves ever so slightly (cannot be seen by the naked eye) that dramatically reduces or completely eliminates the possibility for burn in. This coupled with turning the contrast down to 50% and turning the HDTV off if I decide to put the game on pause, assures me that I won't ever burn in an image into my screen.

So, in other words, just be a little more cautious and intuitive about your new appliance. One thing is for sure, there is NOTHING like playing XBox games in High-Definition! It's sweet!!!! Just make sure you get the Component Video cables and prepare yourself for visual euphoria! :D

05-03-2002, 11:32 AM
hey Max..at your convience, could u find out the the name tosibha titled that tech...so i can make sho the sets i'm looking at have it as well.

05-03-2002, 11:43 AM
Just so people are aware, the screen "jitter" protection that set has is nice, will protect you some, but will not protect you fully. I'm not bashing it, it's a great feature, but if you consider an area of the screen, say a 1" square, that has a solid color on it, this jitter will only protect the outside borders. Now areas with vast color variations relative to the pixel size will be protected from this. This protection will be a good protection for the "pause" style burn in, but the HUD style burn in will still be an issue (because HUDs typically have adjacent blocks of pixels with identically the same color).

This is all just my pensive ramblings, but it makes sense to me. This info has no expert A/V backing.

l Maximus l
05-03-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by DZNUTZ
hey Max..at your convience, could u find out the the name tosibha titled that tech...so i can make sho the sets i'm looking at have it as well.

Well, I'm about 90% positive that only Toshiba and Pioneer have this technology.

05-03-2002, 11:57 AM
If you get a plasma make sure it has a contrast ratio of 400:1 or greater or your blacks will be washed-out.

For rear projection you could get a DLP. They are more expensive than CRT but there is absolutely no problem with burn-in.

If you can control your lighting conditions I would seriously recommend a DLP standalone projector. You can have a screen up to 300 inches with the one I have. (And you can get them for less money than a rear projection TV!)

05-03-2002, 12:04 PM
Hugh_Jass, are projectors HD?

05-03-2002, 12:11 PM
Almost all of the projectors that come out now are capable of 1080i and 720p.

Well worth the money too, infact sometimes cheaper than the rearprojection counterpart.

05-03-2002, 12:50 PM
yo yo yo!!! hughass...how much do those things run? and do have a link where i could check some out!!!!??

05-03-2002, 01:07 PM
I got mine (same as Hugh_Jass's) for $2k last September online. Best place to start looking and doing research would be Projector Central (http://www.projectorcentral.com). Check out the specs, your viewing distance etc. Mine is the NEC LT150, which is OOP but is replaced by the LT150z. There are plenty of great projectors under the $5k range. Check the deals by some of the people selling on that site.

Another good resource to research this stuff is AVS Forums (http://www.avsforum.com). They know the ins and outs of almost any projector out there, and plenty of the folks there have an Xbox hooked up to them.