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View Full Version : Why Morrowind is delayed... look here.



faceoff508
05-12-2002, 07:49 AM
I went to Electronics Boutique, earlier today to ask about
Morrowind. Here is the conversation more or less in its entirety:
ME: When is Morrowind for the Xbox coming out for you guys? I see different dates all over the net.
EB: As of right now, its May 25th shipping date, but I wouldn't count on it. Expect a few more delays.
ME: Crap. I've been waiting for this game forever.
EB: I know. We're getting lots of pre-orders. You've heard about the PC version problems right?
ME: No, whats wrong with it?
EB: Lots of people are complaining of laggy and jumpy play. The minimum requirements are 500mhz but even at 800 to 1.4 ghz it happens quite a bit. The Xbox running at 733 mhz is struggling to play smoothly. There are frame jumps all the time. Bethesda is working on tweaking the game to run smoothly on the Xbox. They basically have to hack the game and trick it into running well.
ME: That is definitely bad news. So the game play is good though?
EB: I mean I love the game and its amazing but the requirements are quite high. Its the best game out n a long time. And if you have a good newer PC, you should get that version because it will run better than the Xbox most likely ever will. They are trying to cram all this huge world, smooth graphics and all onto the hardware of the Xbox. The game seems too crammed for a console.
ME: Ok, so May 25th shipping date, that means 26th buy date. At the earliest?
EB: Yeah but don't count on it.
ME: Ok, thanks.

That is what he said. I'm totally bummed cause I've been holding out for the Xbox version. But now maybe I should get the PC version. I don't want the Xbox version to lesser than the PC. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


SO basically, the Xbox hardware can't handle the magnitude of the game. I never thought I'd hear that said out loud.

--------------------
From Xbox365
By:ddolak

It seems thats might be why..

MixMasta
05-12-2002, 08:43 AM
that sucks, but thanks for the info

Bundy
05-12-2002, 09:22 AM
that sounds like a load of bull.. just misinformed people comparing the processor speeds again.

Kooster
05-12-2002, 10:02 AM
That sounds like what happened to Tribes 2. I dunno if I want to buy this game right when it comes out. I'd rather wait for some reviews of it.

Calve
05-12-2002, 10:14 AM
i think yer wrong cause i was at eb yesterday and they said it was comin out the 22


Peace

Durden-XBA
05-12-2002, 10:17 AM
Were you taped up with a mic when you went in?

jschelm
05-12-2002, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Bundy
that sounds like a load of bull.. just misinformed people comparing the processor speeds again.

I agree. From what the developers are saying the XBox version is running faster than some of their computers at work and with the graphics card that it has it looks better to.

You can't compare computer performance with the XBox performance, it just doesn't work the same. The XBox game is tweaked specifically for the XBox which from what the deves have been saying is not even in the same league as trying to tweak for Direct X. Also, the XBox isn't running Win XP or some other MASSIVE operating system that takes a huge chunk of the computers memory and processor power. So don't discount the XBox version yet.

Especially since this guy is saying stuff that not even Bethesda or Microsoft has said. I think he is just speculating.

DIGITAL
05-12-2002, 02:03 PM
thats what ive been hearing all along that theres way too many bugs in the xbox version,ive been saying that for the past month thats why i dont understand why everyone dying for this game ,if you thought raw was a let down this games gonna break so many xboxer s hearts

Dr_J
05-12-2002, 02:16 PM
This same crap was posted over at TeamXbox.

It's a bunch of crap.


http://forums.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?threadid=91148

ddolak
05-12-2002, 02:19 PM
What the hell do you think you're doing man? Posting on here like you wrote this stuff or found it as a real news release type thing on Xbox365? Go find out your own info dude, or at least give credit to the person who did, di**wad. You ever steal my post again, I'll kick your a**.

BTW: The dude who said all this might be wrong, but if you really think about it, it does make sense. it could very well be the reason it keeps getting delayed.

faceoff508
05-12-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by ddolak
What the hell do you think you're doing man? Posting on here like you wrote this stuff or found it as a real news release type thing on Xbox365? Go find out your own info dude, or at least give credit to the person who did, di**wad. You ever steal my post again, I'll kick your a**.

BTW: The dude who said all this might be wrong, but if you really think about it, it does make sense. it could very well be the reason it keeps getting delayed.

HEy I said it was from XBOX 365!!!! EVEN LOOK, and I didnt edit it...

mtbaird5687
05-12-2002, 02:34 PM
But he said it at the very bottom and didnt even say who wrote it.

faceoff508
05-12-2002, 02:34 PM
OKAY OKAY I WILL, dam!

mtbaird5687
05-12-2002, 02:36 PM
Ok, i dont want to get involved wit this so im gonna leave this thread

egg
05-12-2002, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by ddolak
What the hell do you think you're doing man? Posting on here like you wrote this stuff or found it as a real news release type thing on Xbox365? Go find out your own info dude, or at least give credit to the person who did, di**wad. You ever steal my post again, I'll kick your a**.

BTW: The dude who said all this might be wrong, but if you really think about it, it does make sense. it could very well be the reason it keeps getting delayed.

Steal your post.... haha.... Now thats good.. I am just going to assume your 12 or under.. k? You act like someone stole your secret documents!!!
..Sorry..big word.. (documents) 1 a archaic : PROOF, EVIDENCE b : an original or official paper relied on as the basis, proof, or support of something ...
Unless they started giving away money or prizes for your post calm down...Sure he could of said.."I got this from BLAH BLAH.." would make no difference to me.. Hes just some cat who thought your post was informative (informative) : imparting knowledge : and wanted to share the info... now go play!!!!!!

Fixxer
05-12-2002, 03:11 PM
Believe a person that works at EB? *laugh*

tech
05-12-2002, 03:12 PM
Hey people, why don't you play morrowind on your pc at 640*480. I'm pretty sure that it will run smooth at that resolution. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the xbox run around that resolution?

monkeyman
05-12-2002, 03:19 PM
ive read some hands on preview things and they said it was ok sons a *****es........

chili325
05-12-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by faceoff508
I went to Electronics Boutique, earlier today to ask about
Morrowind. Here is the conversation more or less in its entirety:
ME: When is Morrowind for the Xbox coming out for you guys? I see different dates all over the net.
EB: As of right now, its May 25th shipping date, but I wouldn't count on it. Expect a few more delays.
ME: Crap. I've been waiting for this game forever.
EB: I know. We're getting lots of pre-orders. You've heard about the PC version problems right?
ME: No, whats wrong with it?
EB: Lots of people are complaining of laggy and jumpy play. The minimum requirements are 500mhz but even at 800 to 1.4 ghz it happens quite a bit. The Xbox running at 733 mhz is struggling to play smoothly. There are frame jumps all the time. Bethesda is working on tweaking the game to run smoothly on the Xbox. They basically have to hack the game and trick it into running well.
ME: That is definitely bad news. So the game play is good though?
EB: I mean I love the game and its amazing but the requirements are quite high. Its the best game out n a long time. And if you have a good newer PC, you should get that version because it will run better than the Xbox most likely ever will. They are trying to cram all this huge world, smooth graphics and all onto the hardware of the Xbox. The game seems too crammed for a console.
ME: Ok, so May 25th shipping date, that means 26th buy date. At the earliest?
EB: Yeah but don't count on it.
ME: Ok, thanks.

That is what he said. I'm totally bummed cause I've been holding out for the Xbox version. But now maybe I should get the PC version. I don't want the Xbox version to lesser than the PC. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


SO basically, the Xbox hardware can't handle the magnitude of the game. I never thought I'd hear that said out loud.

--------------------
From Xbox365
By:ddolak

It seems thats might be why..

If a 1.4 g cant handle it then its probably just a bug in the game. Unless theve got a 2g computer i dont c how they wouldnt notice while making the game,

Highlite23
05-12-2002, 06:36 PM
I got to agree with some of the others, these CPU speeds are questionable, there has to be some glitch in the software they have to address.

Knowing the specs of an average PC i doubt that it's hardware related, not eveyone has a 2G CPU in there system.

Toast
05-12-2002, 07:21 PM
i think this gmae will come out mid june. it kepps on getting delayed form its original april date. This means there are definetly problems, this guy might be right

blindrocket
05-12-2002, 07:30 PM
I read that the reason the game chugs even on the biggest computers is because of the copy protection the game uses... it really slows down the game... every few seconds it checks the cd rom drive to see if the original disc is still in there. :eek: Among all kinds of other things to bring the computer to it's knees...

And the XBOX version won't have a super huge operating system running at the same time taking up a bunch of ram.

Laxeph
05-12-2002, 08:28 PM
I just talked to my uncle about this game and he said that it ran fine on his comp. His comp isn't that great either. I don't know the specs but I know that it is at least 2 years old.

Frostberg
05-12-2002, 09:59 PM
Hey...lets all look at this
Xbox has a DEDICATED 733MHz processor with 64MBs of DEDICATED RAM...

What would Morrowind use on your PC? 400MHz dedicated to it? Probably at the most...surely not 733MHz...and it "sounds" like 64MBs of RAM isnt enogh...like I have 640MBs of RAM on my PC now, but WinXP steals like 100MBs of that, not to mention IE, ICQ, Outlook and whatever else...64MBs is enough for one game...and it is also a wholeee lot more optimized to deal with that...mind you even me saying thats more than the GC or PS2 should be enough...
There arent hardware problems...the real problem is that they want to get out those bugs (there seem to be a few big ones) and if they can take a few more days to fix em I dont mind. I want my game fully functional without any problems, and you cant just quickly download a patch to get the game out now and fix it later like you can on the PC...

Oh yeah, I was also in EB on saturday and they said the 22nd was the new date, and it must of been moved back that day because the guy said friday it was the 20th...

Kortiz
05-13-2002, 01:43 AM
hehe, try putting this on PS2 or GC......talk about funny stuffs

DVDGNZ
05-13-2002, 04:22 AM
I sure hope they have 100 dudes fixing the bugs!;) :(

Woocifer
05-13-2002, 07:51 AM
The graphics processor and RAM in the Xbox, along with the celeron 733 are not the most AMAZING pieces of hardware...nor should you believe a game that is rather large in size should run so smooth on this kind of system.

64 megs of RAM is garbage and I don't understand why they skimped...it was so cheap when they were making the XBox and now we have to suffer with that little amount...

It's not bugs that would slow it down, it's poor game architecture added to the fact that the xbox has lower than the recommended pc standards of the game. The number of models, textures, weather and information this game has to calculate constantly is a lot for the xbox let alone systems that are a little low right now. Stop acting like the Xbox is the biggest and best thing ever made. It's great yes, but guys admit it, there are some things that just will not work on an Xbox like they will on a high end PC. Yes it's a great system so don't reply yammering about it. Just realize that in order to pull it off on a console(though it is focussed hardware) you have to trim the fat, up the scripting, revamp the code and cross your fingers.

Games like Rallisport look amazing...but only because there isn't much going on as compared to something like Morrowind. There is just a tonne of stuff...it needs help handling that.

For example in Halo, if you sit there and smash an alien on the ground more than say 30-100 times, you will notice a direct slow down on the system because it can't handle that many textures overlapping because the alien KEEPS BLEEDING every time you hit it. It slows down to basically 2 frames a second...there are limitations, and with this low RAM we're going to find loading problems, with the slower processor we're going to find jittery play and with the graphics processor(unless the script, code and redo this game with severe discrimintation for the Xbox) its not going to be able to handle everything all at once as well as we all would like to think.

Essentially they need to remake this game FOR the Xbox instead of trying to half port the PC version. I know Xbox runs on an altered kernal of Win2k...but it still needs some attention.

Woocifer
05-13-2002, 07:53 AM
Anyway...I hope it works out...but I'm sick of waiting

Kraft
05-13-2002, 08:36 AM
It makes me wonder if there are some people out there running a CPU speed at 1.5 ghz and wondering why their Voodoo2 card can't handle morrowind... Also, just a sidenote, but Hastings entertainment is advertising morrowind now, and they are religious about not advertising things unless they will be out within the next 2 weeks. Even games like Starcraft and Diablo2, which were habitually late, came out within 2 weeks of them advertising.

Unreal
05-13-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by faceoff508
I went to Electronics Boutique, earlier today to ask about
Morrowind. Here is the conversation more or less in its entirety:
ME: When is Morrowind for the Xbox coming out for you guys? I see different dates all over the net.
EB: As of right now, its May 25th shipping date, but I wouldn't count on it. Expect a few more delays.
ME: Crap. I've been waiting for this game forever.
EB: I know. We're getting lots of pre-orders. You've heard about the PC version problems right?
ME: No, whats wrong with it?
EB: Lots of people are complaining of laggy and jumpy play. The minimum requirements are 500mhz but even at 800 to 1.4 ghz it happens quite a bit. The Xbox running at 733 mhz is struggling to play smoothly. There are frame jumps all the time. Bethesda is working on tweaking the game to run smoothly on the Xbox. They basically have to hack the game and trick it into running well.
ME: That is definitely bad news. So the game play is good though?
EB: I mean I love the game and its amazing but the requirements are quite high. Its the best game out n a long time. And if you have a good newer PC, you should get that version because it will run better than the Xbox most likely ever will. They are trying to cram all this huge world, smooth graphics and all onto the hardware of the Xbox. The game seems too crammed for a console.
ME: Ok, so May 25th shipping date, that means 26th buy date. At the earliest?
EB: Yeah but don't count on it.
ME: Ok, thanks.

That is what he said. I'm totally bummed cause I've been holding out for the Xbox version. But now maybe I should get the PC version. I don't want the Xbox version to lesser than the PC. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


SO basically, the Xbox hardware can't handle the magnitude of the game. I never thought I'd hear that said out loud.

--------------------
From Xbox365
By:ddolak

It seems thats might be why..
Not to take anything away from you but I do not like EB. The last time I was in there. I was told why am I not buy Sega games on the GameCube (I was buying GV for Xbox) because Nintendo is buying Sega for its network abilities so the GC can be played online. I think I will wait and see a press release why the game is delayed.

Unreal
05-13-2002, 10:48 AM
Edit: Besides when a developer makes a game for the PC they have to take into account all the various PC setups that are out there. So they are pretty much developing for over 10 systems at least. With the Xbox its a single enviroment with the exact same hardware for all its users. You can have the game running easier knowing your target audience all have the same hardware.

faceoff508
05-13-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Unreal
Edit: Besides when a developer makes a game for the PC they have to take into account all the various PC setups that are out there. So they are pretty much developing for over 10 systems at least. With the Xbox its a single enviroment with the exact same hardware for all its users. You can have the game running easier knowing your target audience all have the same hardware.

Maybe your right!!

OppiumNitrates
05-13-2002, 01:46 PM
yeah i heard from this store that i bought mine from that it was pushed back another week. . . . i hate this bull$h!t waiting, but hopfully they get all the problems out that i keep reading about from the PC version. . .we wont have a construction kit for our game

oh and about trying to fit the huge world of Marrowind into the Xbox version is IMO bull$h!t i think that the problem lies more in the buggs in the game i read on the elderscrolls fourms that this dude was trying to get an NPC to follow him to for a quest and he ketp getting stuck at this rock and he said he reloaded like 10x he eventually fixed it with the construction set but we cant do that kinda stuff on the box so i think thoes r the problems there trying to work out

Frostberg
05-13-2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Woocifer
The graphics processor and RAM in the Xbox, along with the celeron 733 are not the most AMAZING pieces of hardware...nor should you believe a game that is rather large in size should run so smooth on this kind of system.

64 megs of RAM is garbage and I don't understand why they skimped...it was so cheap when they were making the XBox and now we have to suffer with that little amount...

It's not bugs that would slow it down, it's poor game architecture added to the fact that the xbox has lower than the recommended pc standards of the game. The number of models, textures, weather and information this game has to calculate constantly is a lot for the xbox let alone systems that are a little low right now. Stop acting like the Xbox is the biggest and best thing ever made. It's great yes, but guys admit it, there are some things that just will not work on an Xbox like they will on a high end PC. Yes it's a great system so don't reply yammering about it. Just realize that in order to pull it off on a console(though it is focussed hardware) you have to trim the fat, up the scripting, revamp the code and cross your fingers.

Games like Rallisport look amazing...but only because there isn't much going on as compared to something like Morrowind. There is just a tonne of stuff...it needs help handling that.

For example in Halo, if you sit there and smash an alien on the ground more than say 30-100 times, you will notice a direct slow down on the system because it can't handle that many textures overlapping because the alien KEEPS BLEEDING every time you hit it. It slows down to basically 2 frames a second...there are limitations, and with this low RAM we're going to find loading problems, with the slower processor we're going to find jittery play and with the graphics processor(unless the script, code and redo this game with severe discrimintation for the Xbox) its not going to be able to handle everything all at once as well as we all would like to think.

Essentially they need to remake this game FOR the Xbox instead of trying to half port the PC version. I know Xbox runs on an altered kernal of Win2k...but it still needs some attention.


Hmmm the requirement for Morrowind on the PC is 500MHz...ok the Xbox has 733MHz of total processing power, fully devoted to one game...It wont have ANY problem with morrowind, unless there are so many bugs in the actual game that slow it down...

Thats the same amount of MHz and RAM that Spiderman requires for the PC...hmmm seems to run fine on the Xbox, and it is even out for the PS2, and the PS2s less than 300MHzz processor is more than enough to run spiderman. Your problem is you are comparing apples and oranges...even though they are both MHz, it is still extremely different

Guess what the highest graphical detail Max Payne requires? 1000 MHz and 192MBs of RAM! Medium is 700MHz and 128MBs or RAM...I'd say the xbox is right up there on the higher end of that scale...once again, numbers you see on PC boxes DO NOT MATTER...

There are no problems that the xbox isnt up to date, it is FAR superior to other consoles, and they are up there you have to think that the xbox is FULL power, while your pc is only using like 30%

And Morrowind isint even a graphically intense game anyway, and you dont need an up to date 2.4GHz processor to play it

PROUDXBOXOWNER
05-13-2002, 04:40 PM
game delays suck.

Woocifer
05-13-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Frostberg



Hmmm the requirement for Morrowind on the PC is 500MHz...ok the Xbox has 733MHz of total processing power, fully devoted to one game...It wont have ANY problem with morrowind, unless there are so many bugs in the actual game that slow it down...

Thats the same amount of MHz and RAM that Spiderman requires for the PC...hmmm seems to run fine on the Xbox, and it is even out for the PS2, and the PS2s less than 300MHzz processor is more than enough to run spiderman. Your problem is you are comparing apples and oranges...even though they are both MHz, it is still extremely different

Guess what the highest graphical detail Max Payne requires? 1000 MHz and 192MBs of RAM! Medium is 700MHz and 128MBs or RAM...I'd say the xbox is right up there on the higher end of that scale...once again, numbers you see on PC boxes DO NOT MATTER...

There are no problems that the xbox isnt up to date, it is FAR superior to other consoles, and they are up there you have to think that the xbox is FULL power, while your pc is only using like 30%

And Morrowind isint even a graphically intense game anyway, and you dont need an up to date 2.4GHz processor to play it

Morrowind is not the most graphically intense game, I stated that before that the graphics processor is not what we need... if there was more RAM to load up the necessary things that are used all the time then perhaps the processor would be able to take care of other not so used processes. The number of instructions is lower than on a pc that has a higher processor considering that is what we are talking about here...hertz...cycles...processing and instructions. They have to figure out how to keep the graphics blazing with all the effects since we all won't put up with a low res version not using any environmental effects that we were all sold on. It makes a significant difference...so what they have to figure out is how to make this computer that is lower end run a game the same way a higher end pc will run it. They have to build it that way...but you seem a little agitated so just leave it be. I'm just stating that the Xbox is not the be all end all in power like a lot of people would believe. It does what it does really well...but it's exactly what you said, we're trying to put and apples kinda game onto an oranges kind of console.

It's just a little different, and they need to revamp and recode the xbox version to work the way it should ON the xbox architecture and on the xbox system.

preetz16
05-13-2002, 05:27 PM
Ok, here's why I thinkthe delay might ( and I do stress might) be real. I don't think that fps has anything to do with it what-so-ever. I agree with others in here, testers have been saying that it runs superbly well on their Xboxes. A lot of you don't understand that your standards for judging computer specs are so completely different from the standards used to determine the capabilities of consoles. Trust me, if you had millions of dollars, and could pay the morrowind team to go back through, and optimize the game for YOUR static system (especially if you have >1.5G and Geforce4) you would be floored by what they could do when the developers know EXACTLY what kind of hardware is to be used. When they know they can exploit the hell out of it! They write specific code to optimize preformance instead of the generic stuff they use on the PC version. I think this has been touched on already in these forums, but it's a good example: Your PC only takes advantage of hardware in about 25% of the tasks it does. The Xbox, on the other hand, executes it's tasks, and takes advantage of hardware on 70-100% of them.

The only reason I think Morrowind may be delayed is this: In-game bugs. I don't really believe (from what I've heard) the fps, or crash-bugs need to be improved, but the bugs that affect play. NPCs that get stuck, lost, killed(bu something other than you) are all real problems. In such an open -ended world there are bound to be some storyline conflicts. Some are complaining of quests that cannot be completed because of some miniscule thing they did. This, if anything, is what will hold the game back, not proformance...

Frostberg
05-13-2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Woocifer

so what they have to figure out is how to make this computer that is lower end run a game the same way a higher end pc will run it.

AHh theres what I dont like, I dont the Xbox is on the "lower end" and I dont think there are any problems with trying to run the game on the Xbox. A high end pc will run anything, and the Xbox wasnt designed for this type of problems...theres no way MS would put so much effort and money into a console to make it hard to develop for, and obslete in 1 year because its too slow. Its more than fast enough for games of today and for games of the future. It will be a good 5 years before it is too slow and games advance so far that you will need an Xbox 2.

The only think I'm worried about is how there can be problems to begin with if Morrowind doesnt demand much. It doesnt need to load the whole world all at once, it can be done in areas like halo or say EQ does it. Halo does it effectively where you barely notice the loading. Theres no reason Morrowind cant be efficient enough to try to load things in the world you might never see...

Hugh_Jass
05-14-2002, 02:59 PM
I'm sure Morrowind will be running silky smooth WHEN it gets released. I can wait. It's only a game. I've got other things to do to fill my time until it's released.

jschelm
05-14-2002, 03:06 PM
Don't forget something else guys. Although the games are nearly identicle, morrowind isn't really a port in the traditional sense of the word. They didn't finish the PC version and then just change around what they needed in order to make it run on the xbox. Both versions were in the same stages of development at the same time by different groups of people. So, this is an XBox game, not just a PC port.