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Bakero
06-07-2002, 09:54 PM
:) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :)

I read that Tekken4 is the first PlayStation2 game to support this feature. I have the Japanese version of Tekken4 and it looks great. If you want to know what it looks like just go to the arcade, it looks exactly like the arcade version only smoother (no jaggies), so I say it’s about 110% conversion of the game, from arcade to console. Anyway while Tekken4 looks great I don’t understand what Progressive Scan do…Can someone shed some light?

:p :confused: :confused: :p

LynxFX
06-07-2002, 10:00 PM
Take a look at my site High Tech Gaming 101 in my sig. It explains it.

Just so you know, every game but Agent Under Fire(does for half of it) support 480p on the Xbox.

Bakero
06-08-2002, 08:28 AM
:) :D :D :)

Man Cool Site! N E way I still don’t get it. I clicked on what is progressive scan button and while it showed me two comparisons of interlace and progressive I don’t quite have the understanding I’m looking for. Can someone elaborate with text?

;) :confused: :confused: ;)

DBXNY
06-08-2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Bakero
:) :D :D :)

Man Cool Site! N E way I still don’t get it. I clicked on what is progressive scan button and while it showed me two comparisons of interlace and progressive I don’t quite have the understanding I’m looking for. Can someone elaborate with text?

;) :confused: :confused: ;)

Notice the interlaced display is showing the frames in 2 separate fields (one containing the odd lines, the other containing the even lines). Now look at the progressive-scan image, the frame is displayed completely in one pass.

It would really take up too much space here to go into much more depth. I suggest you go to this link and read it when you have time:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

Although it relates to progressive-scan dvd players, the X-box functions the same way with games.

BCan
06-09-2002, 05:14 AM
Does this mean we can enable progressive scanning for DVD's with mod chips for the XBOX, if it possible for it to be used by games?!

DBXNY
06-09-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by BCan
Does this mean we can enable progressive scanning for DVD's with mod chips for the XBOX, if it possible for it to be used by games?!

I would guess that is possible. However, I wouldn't want to use the X-box as a progressive-scan dvd player for other technical reasons I can't really explain here.

J Dub
06-09-2002, 02:36 PM
Please do explain.

LynxFX
06-09-2002, 03:58 PM
Yeah DBXNY, Why wouldn't you?

DBXNY
06-09-2002, 07:56 PM
I can't really explain here because it would be too involved as well. Let's just say that the mpeg2 decoder within the X-box isn't perfect. You won't really notice the flaws during regular DVD playback, but they would be more noticeable during progressive playback.

Also, the deinterlacing in the X-box isn't the best available as well. I notice this with just 480p game playback. For instance, in scenes of Star Wars Obi-Wan you get what's called "moire" patterns with some horizontal objects, like stairs.

LynxFX
06-09-2002, 08:18 PM
That's true, but it is also seen in most stand alone players as well, not to mention combing, vertical filtering chroma bugs and such. There is a big difference between film and the video from video games. Most errors are found on footage that is not filmbased like most tv shows or video games and not found on movies that were actually filmed. The fact is the picture would still be better than the standard 480i output that the xbox currently has and for $30 would be a nice selling point. It could probably compete with most sub $250 progressive stand alone players.

DBXNY
06-10-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Lynxfx
That's true, but it is also seen in most stand alone players as well, not to mention combing, vertical filtering chroma bugs and such. There is a big difference between film and the video from video games. Most errors are found on footage that is not filmbased like most tv shows or video games and not found on movies that were actually filmed. The fact is the picture would still be better than the standard 480i output that the xbox currently has and for $30 would be a nice selling point. It could probably compete with most sub $250 progressive stand alone players.

Actually, the chroma bug is the error within the mpeg2 decoder that I was referring too. Apparently, it's worse in the X-box than seen in most standalone players.

You raise a good question...Does the X-box even have a "film-mode" for deinterlacing? I don't know for sure.

Also, in my mind for comparison, it is possible to get pretty much perfect progressive scan performance (for both film and video) at a low cost these days. For example, Panasonic makes a nice RP56/62 progressive scan player that contains a deinterlacing chip formely made by a company called Sage/Faroudja(now merged with Genesis). The Sage chip can also deinterlace "video" without moire patterns or stairstepping. Combing is pretty much non-existent for film-based material. Moreover, Panasonic mpeg2 decoders also don't have the chroma upsampling error.

Considering you can get this player for under $200 now, I don't see a reason why most should bother trying to get their X-box to output progressive-scan for dvd playback.

LynxFX
06-10-2002, 03:01 PM
It's funny that you mention the RP-56. That was the player I was going to buy before I decided to go with a HTPC. I saw this one in Best Buy the other day for $150!! Couldn't believe it. For the money it is a great player and they practically go out of their way to not mention the Faroudja chip inside. It does have combing problems here and there but nothing major. The Faroudja chip still doesn't fix the chroma upsampling error but it does hide it by smoothing over the chroma channel.

I think that most of these 'problems' aren't even noticable to most people unless they are looking for it or have it pointed out. Even then I most people wouldn't even see what we are talking about.

I agree with you though that anyone that has an HDTV or progressive capable tv shouldn't bother with the Xbox for DVD playback and get a stand alone player.