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View Full Version : the Xbox needs a keyboard badly



Bigwig
11-07-2002, 11:08 AM
2 reasons
user input really helps online RPGS
chat rooms with just a mic sound like "lgmjvsrkvdopsv,oskfv fm"

For the whole "It will make a the Xbox seem like a cheap PC" clan.

I say the only person who listens to the idiot is the fool.

carlbme
11-07-2002, 11:11 AM
I personally think that it wouldn't get much use.

Most people are happy with the communicator. Why type when you can talk?

RudedogX
11-07-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by carlbme
I personally think that it wouldn't get much use.

Most people are happy with the communicator. Why type when you can talk?

I couldn't agree more! When you're playin' a game, you just use common sense and talk when it's best. I've never had a problem and it's a hell of a lot easier and more fun than a keyboard!

Zion
11-07-2002, 12:00 PM
I couldn't imagine fumbling with a keyboard while trying to play games...oh no wait..I can imagine it. That's exactly why my Dreamcast keyboard is collecting dust, and that's exactly why the last PC game I bought was Motocross Madness II 4 years ago.

Xbox keyboard. Ugh.

JimmieDoogan
11-07-2002, 12:04 PM
For me, if it had KB/M combo (or something like it, say that claw controller we saw way back when) it would get GRIPS of use over here. I'd be up on some Halo, practicing for Halo 2... would probably make TS2 more fun (wasn't a fan of it after a rental) Turok might be worth beating once, and depending on the RPG, it would be great (for online RPGs). Alas, it'll proabably not happen... what a shame too... I know MS want's to distance themselves from a PC... but you do that with the games, not the hardware.

JJaX
11-07-2002, 12:04 PM
Like carlbme said, why type when you can talk?

But i can tell you this, a keyboard does exist. But i dont think you would need it. People that do all that modding, flashing of the bios, ripping etc use it.

It makes certain task easier.

MerimacHamwich
11-07-2002, 12:20 PM
A keyboard is the last thing they ned to come out with. That and a mouse. Oh, and BigWig might not know this becuase of his not LIVE situation but there is user feedback.

Bigwig
11-07-2002, 12:30 PM
I think you all are missing the point here. Anyone would rather communicate in game with a mic. However in-between games when you are in a chat room with 20 people is a bunch of blah blah blah. Another reason you need a keyboard is because open coded games like Neverwinter Nights and Star Wars Galaxies allow users to create scripts and programs that can be added to a game. This is important in the case of MMORPGs because a lot of those games will steal Neverwinters "dungeon master" idea. Fable 2 is rumored to be an open code MMORPG. Now some of you might be skeptical to how many make shift programmers there are. Well if you are go to NWN user downloads and you will see how much has been added to the game via open code in just six months. I was amazed. Gamers added stuff like a job system, better henchman Ai, **** err chicken fighting, and sub races. If I were going to produce a MMORPG for the Xbox it would definitely have open code and a dungeon master system because it adds a ton to a game. If NWN 2 will not hit the Xbox as a console exclusive without a keyboard. Now I have heard there is a European 3rd party producing a keyboard but I am not sure. Without a keyboard you will also never have moding.

Thats why so many people would rather buy the PC version of the game because you can dload user mods. In the case of Splinter Cell you can only dload Ubisoft mods on the Xbox. I bet Splinter Cell 2 would have the option to create missions if you have a keyboard.

Make no mistake I love the mic and the ability to record your own voices and music to a game. It does not have to be an either or thing

MerimacHamwich
11-07-2002, 12:34 PM
How about this. Downloadable content via xbox live. IE, download the patches made for pc that were modded by the game producers to work with xbox. Plus, there isn't really a "chatroom" for xbox live. There is a lobby when you are waiting for people to join but trust me. Talking in there is way better than typing. Plus, its not like anyone has ever had a bad experience with the communicator in the lounge. You can hear what everyone says.

Oh yeah, NWN isn't the first game to use the dungeon master thing. That has been going on for ages. As for Fable 2. That most likely won't even be on the xbox. Without a doubt in my mind it will be on the next microsoft console. Heck, Fable 1 is only rumoured to come out in spring. Where are you getting these Fable 2 rumours from anyway? BBB forums? If so, alot can change within 10 years.

Bigwig
11-07-2002, 12:45 PM
Fable 2 does look like an Xbox 2 launch title but until then I say start a moding community ASAP to get them warmed up for Fable 2. Also Neverwinters "dungeon master" is pretty unique because of the in game online options. You dont just make the dungeons you are really the dungeon master. You can do stuff like posses monsters and make them talk or whatever.

LynxFX
11-07-2002, 12:46 PM
I want a keyboard and mouse for control, not communication especially since consoles seem to be going for the PC dominated genre of FPS games.

Halo is the best they have done yet with a controller but it is still behind the control one gets with a keyboard and mouse.

I know what you are talking about, with everyone in a lobby talking at once, but I don't think I would want to stop and type either. Hopefully more people will just learn to shut up once in awhile. ;) Besides, text on a standard tv is hardly readable.

Dre
11-07-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Lynxfx
I know what you are talking about, with everyone in a lobby talking at once, but I don't think I would want to stop and type either. Hopefully more people will just learn to shut up once in awhile. ;) Besides, text on a standard tv is hardly readable.

I've found that most people are respectful and don't all talk at the same time. Its the same thing as being with a group of friends, if everyone talked no one would understand each other. Its not rocket science, nor a service screaming for a kb, its just a bit of common sense thats needed.



As for KB/M combo for FPS, I'm very much against it since it would put players on different levels on Live and thats not cool.

Bigwig
11-07-2002, 12:54 PM
I think I am one of the few people who rather have dual analog over mouse and keyboard control. It would be interesting to see how Mouse and Keyboard square off VS dual analog. Mouse and Keyboard would have a targeting advantage while dual analog would have movement. It would probably depend on the game.

RudedogX
11-07-2002, 12:56 PM
XBL Gamertag: Calaldum

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was wondering who this cat was that invited me to his friend's list last night! See you on Live dre!:cool:

Dre
11-07-2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by rudedogX
XBL Gamertag: Calaldum

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was wondering who this cat was that invited me to his friend's list last night! See you on Live dre!:cool:

hehehe, I guess I should have sent some pms to the peeps I invited. Its not like you see Calaldum and think.. oh thats gotta be Dre :)

MerimacHamwich
11-07-2002, 12:59 PM
BigWig, the following are some games that have the capablities of NWN:
Baldurs Gate
Baldurs Gate 2
Vampire:The Masquerade Redemption
Pool of Radiance
I think Dungeon Seige has it too.
Plus any other game loosely or tightly based on the Dungeons and Dragons game. There is at least 10 out there.

Oh and as for the mods. As well as converting PC mods to the xbox they oculd even include a PC CDROM disk so that people who want to mod so badly can.

Bigwig
11-07-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Dre


I've found that most people are respectful and don't all talk at the same time. Its the same thing as being with a group of friends, if everyone talked no one would understand each other. Its not rocket science, nor a service screaming for a kb, its just a bit of common sense thats needed.



As for KB/M combo for FPS, I'm very much against it since it would put players on different levels on Live and thats not cool.

I hope you are right I have only beta tested live myself. I still think you are going to be short on PC gamers crossing over without more incentive. Take a look at all the user mods for Morrowind too. Without a keyboard games are a better buy on the PC. I'm playing BG 2 for the first time with three user mods attached to it. It doubles the lenght of the game

RudedogX
11-07-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Dre


hehehe, I guess I should have sent some pms to the peeps I invited. Its not like you see Calaldum and think.. oh thats gotta be Dre :)

Pretty much...it's all good though, you'll have to explain that name on Live sometime:D

RudedogX
11-07-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Bigwig


I hope you are right I have only beta tested live myself. I still think you are going to be short on PC gamers crossing over without more incentive. Take a look at all the user mods for Morrowind too. Without a keyboard games are a better buy on the PC. I'm playing BG 2 for the first time with three user mods attached to it. It doubles the lenght of the game


Honestly Bigwig...There are going to be enough people on Live without having to worry about losing a few PC fans.:cool:

I can go on Live right now and find people looking to join a game in almost any game I play, and that's during beta!:eek:

Dre
11-07-2002, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Bigwig


I hope you are right I have only beta tested live myself. I still think you are going to be short on PC gamers crossing over without more incentive. Take a look at all the user mods for Morrowind too. Without a keyboard games are a better buy on the PC. I'm playing BG 2 for the first time with three user mods attached to it. It doubles the lenght of the game

I wonder what sort of things have to be taken into consideration when transforming a pc-mod to an XBL dl'able mod. You;d think that if they think about it first, which I'm sure they do, they'd make the mods as modular as possible. I agree though, PC mods extend a games life considerably and it is something lacking for consoles. But, with the Xbox hd, things are going to change. DL'able content via XBL for example. And next months OXM is going to have a booster disc for Sega GT 2002.

scarecrow kfj
11-07-2002, 04:09 PM
IF YOU WANT TO CHAT GO TO YAHOO OR A FORUM HEREWE DONT NEED THE xbl SLOWING DOWN CAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO TYPE/TALK (sorry caps) XBL is for gaming. PLus half of us cant type or spell in here any waise so what would be the point...lol

Woocifer
11-07-2002, 04:20 PM
One of the major things that has to be taken into consideration is that there is a 2 second lag or so with voice communication... this could prove as a problem, but what you have to realise is audio isn't distinct...one noise can add, mesh, disrupt or destroy another. When you type one persons messages are distinct from everyone elses. Imagine you're in a game with 16 people in a deathmatch...the amount of talking will be ****ing retarded.... SERIOUSLY confusing and reiduclous.

Also I don't want to listen to a bunch of losers...squeaking into the microphone, SCREAMING at the stupidest things... its just an annoyance. I don't talk to everyone on the street...why should I have to talk to strangers over the internet hahaha

:P

Bigwig
11-07-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
BigWig, the following are some games that have the capablities of NWN:
Baldurs Gate
Baldurs Gate 2
Vampire:The Masquerade Redemption
Pool of Radiance
I think Dungeon Seige has it too.
Plus any other game loosely or tightly based on the Dungeons and Dragons game. There is at least 10 out there.

Oh and as for the mods. As well as converting PC mods to the xbox they oculd even include a PC CDROM disk so that people who want to mod so badly can.
Burning a disk off of a PC version of the game is much more of hassle then just allowing a 3rd party keyboard. You are also way off on what I mean by dungeonmaster. Lots of games, even console titles have some toolkit to create dungeons but NWN allows you to host a server, and be behind the scenes controlling the story. You have a password that allows you or your assistant dungeonmasters access to your module.

One of the main appeals to the Xbox is the cheap MMORPGs that operate in a persistent world. One of the problems with them is how short the games are. With a NWN style where each area can have a team of dungeonmasters adding and operating a story. This puts an MMORPG above the next one and that what I mean when I say NWN is unique.

MerimacHamwich
11-07-2002, 04:40 PM
I meant exactly waht you meant. In all of those games I am sure you can set up your own story and everything like you said. Trust me. Have you ever heard of Dungoens and Dragons? All of those games are based off of it. It is a "boardgame rpg" that you create your won stories in and is controlled by the Dungeon Master. These all copy from it.

As for Woocifer. Are you a BETA tester? I am, and I have not come across the stuff you are suggesting might happen. Heck lots of people don't even talk. It is actually a civilized environment on LIVE. There isn't tons of people yelling and screaming and crap. The voice delays are also relative. Depending on the persons location and ping times. Quite often you come across people who have virtually no delay. The biggest I have heard was around 2 seconds.

How is including a contruction kit a hassle? Most PC games come with a contruction kit, so just put the construction kit on a seperate disc and include it on the xbox version. I think it would be more profitable and easier then designing a keyboard to work with the xbox. After all, hardware loses money, software makes money.

Bigwig
11-07-2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
I meant exactly waht you meant. In all of those games I am sure you can set up your own story and everything like you said. Trust me. Have you ever heard of Dungoens and Dragons? All of those games are based off of it. It is a "boardgame rpg" that you create your won stories in and is controlled by the Dungeon Master. These all copy from it.

LOL look at my signature.
I have played every infinity engine game, every gold box game, and POR 2's sorry excuse for a game along with reading the novels and playing PnP. There is a reason NWN is up for RPG of the year while having a lousy single player game. The dungeonmaster option is unique to Neverwinter Nights. With BG and the other Infinity engine games you can dload emulated tools to make mods, in Dungeon Siege and Morrowind you have a toolkit but none of those games allow you the freedom to interact with players in a behind the scene dungeonmaster mod while they are playing. Also none of those games allow you to have your own persistent world server with a password and add adventures to your own server. For this you need a keyboard and mouse.



As for Woocifer. Are you a BETA tester? I am, and I have not come across the stuff you are suggesting might happen. Heck lots of people don't even talk. It is actually a civilized environment on LIVE. There isn't tons of people yelling and screaming and crap. The voice delays are also relative. Depending on the persons location and ping times. Quite often you come across people who have virtually no delay. The biggest I have heard was around 2 seconds.

This could be because its under populated. I wonder if some of the people posting have played online on gamespy or the dreamcast. There are a ton of people in between games chatting about stuff, or setting up games. Even if you only have 10 people in the room talking one on one conversations can get cluttered. Thats just the nature of the beast. There are always more people chatting then playing.


How is including a contruction kit a hassle? Most PC games come with a contruction kit, so just put the construction kit on a seperate disc and include it on the xbox version. I think it would be more profitable and easier then designing a keyboard to work with the xbox. After all, hardware loses money, software makes money.

Cuz some of these construction kits might allow for opencoding if there was a keyboard. I'm not saying it should be included with live but people who wanted to script stuff in open coded toolkits could buy one. Otherwise you dont get any real significant user input. If you are talking about a PC compatible construction disk that would put even more burden on the consumer to get a PC with a writeable CD Rom drive.

MerimacHamwich
11-07-2002, 08:25 PM
I don't feel like arguing any more.

As for LIVE though. Trust me, it sin't a problem. Ask any of the BETA testers. Once again I have to say though. There is no chatrooms! There is only a place called a "lounge" that you enter when you join a game. You only talk there when you are waiting for game level changes etc or for more people to join. There is no problem with "cluttering" of voices.

LynxFX
11-08-2002, 02:11 AM
Heck lots of people don't even talk. It is actually a civilized environment on LIVE.
I agree with that. There has only been one situation where two people were being completely annoying in the lounge, ie chatroom, but it was with people I didn't know and never played against again. Once I started playing people I knew it has been totally cool, even ones that I don't know. It could easily be exploited though and you might find one person with an annoying voice and that in turn is masked by an annoying voice mask. With the amount of people that will be on Live, I'm sure you will find one or two bad seeds here and there. But it is probably the exception, not the rule.