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View Full Version : Has Ms Done it? Eliminated Modchips on Live?



Evil_Dr_Beefy
11-12-2002, 04:37 PM
I just read on a hacker site quote"

Today alot of people that were beta testers on live and had modded systems attempted to play their beta cd's as normal but came to a screen that says "cannot connect to servers",
this only happens on a modded xbox we tested it here at ****** , but what is ms looking for we dont know just yet but are looking into it, ms gets 1 point for the anti mod attempts.
more info soon........

Unquote"

Mmm...so the war between hackers and microsoft has just heated up. I wonder what the hackers next move with be? So what do you guys think? I guess that disableing the hard drive of modded xboxes was enough for old uncle bill....This old cat and mouse game between hacker and Ms...it's better than TV:)

Dre
11-12-2002, 05:00 PM
This is real interesting... you wouldn't happen to be able to post a link to the website you got this quote from would ya? I've been holding out on modding my box for this reason. It sure would suck for all those peeps with modded boxes if they don't find a way around this.

LynxFX
11-12-2002, 05:34 PM
That is pretty interesting. I also have held off on a modchip for this reason. I think if it really became a problem then I would just buy a second Xbox. The sega bundle brings the cost of the system to like $100. That is nothing for a second console. Use that one on Live and mod the original that I got.

zfBRAT
11-12-2002, 05:49 PM
The race is on to see how the hackers will get back at Microsoft... Could it be you?
http://www.fastfunpages.com/02/11/tridem/main.jpg

Evil_Dr_Beefy
11-12-2002, 07:00 PM
Nope.....i'm no hacker....i just love the whole cat and mouse game. You know, punch and counter punch. Hackers vs Big business. I'm not much of a pirate...after playing some bootleg games on the ps2 with no music and no movies..and in some cases missing levels.....and like a dumb ass killing a few consoles trying to modd them......i think it's much cheaper to rent games, than to buy a whole new system. At the same time i wish that microsoft would rethink it's stand on running unsigned code...like emulators, Divx players and playing game from another regions....I'm still wondering..can a home console be made uncrackable? I think that best anti-pirate measure i have seen has to be the Phantasy Star online for the dreamcast....you couldn't log on to their servers with out a serial number. To this day i don't think that anybody ever cracked that one.....

J Dub
11-12-2002, 08:09 PM
A guy I know has a modded Xbox and told me on Thanksgiving that he was going to be adding a switch so he could disconnect it when he was playing Live. That sounds like an interesting idea.

ScorpionX
11-12-2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Xx J Dub 2k xX
A guy I know has a modded Xbox and told me on Thanksgiving that he was going to be adding a switch so he could disconnect it when he was playing Live. That sounds like an interesting idea.

Yes, that is the only way to eliminate the problem right now, having a bios switch. I am sure that in the near future this problem will be solved.


Recent finds have confirmed that Xbox Live service is checking for mods. How do we know? Well we tested one xbox with a modchip enabled and with the modchip disabled. Results show that the xbox with modchip installed but disabled worked with xbox live. With the chip installed and enabled it did not work, xbox live would not connect. So solution is, disable your mod, at least until something new comes up on this find.

rio2012
11-12-2002, 08:37 PM
I remember about a month ago my friend moded his Xbox and it was working fine for a while and finally when got all the info on xbx live and its anti mod protection he decided to buy a switch for his mod chip, but tragicly through the process of installing the switch one of the solders on the xbox motherboard some how got damaged and his xbox was nothing more than a useful paper weight.:D

Variation-XBA
11-12-2002, 09:16 PM
I hope they can detect and wont let people on :)

Afro Aura
11-12-2002, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Variation
I hope they can detect and wont let people on :)
Yep me to, they were told that the XBL will be taking out modded XBOXs so it's all their fault, if they want to get online go out and buy another machine they're damn cheap right now

ScorpionX
11-12-2002, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Afro Aura

Yep me to, they were told that the XBL will be taking out modded XBOXs so it's all there fault, if they want to get online go out and buy another machine they're damn cheap right now

The hackers will always find a way in..... ;)

Paradox
11-13-2002, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Scorpion}{


The hackers will always find a way in..... ;)


The hackers might always find a way in, but all the people who paid a hacker money to mod their Xbox might be SOL.

darianX
11-13-2002, 10:13 AM
My take on this mod thing is that if you want to play hacker with your box, fine, but you're sure as hell not getting on XBL with it. Why? Because I believe that a modded box is just a step away from being able to cheat. Think about it..the mod chip already bypasses much of the legit code..so the door is already open for cheating. If you've ever been nuked over and over again playing a game online you already know that cheaters suck ass. I sure don't want them on XBL :mad:

thunderkiss2k1
11-13-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Dre
This is real interesting... you wouldn't happen to be able to post a link to the website you got this quote from would ya? I've been holding out on modding my box for this reason. It sure would suck for all those peeps with modded boxes if they don't find a way around this.


In my opinion, they should not have modded their Xbox's in the first place. This should teach hackers a lesson. Peace.

Pipetender
11-13-2002, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Scorpion}{


The hackers will always find a way in..... ;)

Being a cheap @ss doesn't always work like you think Scorpion...;)

Kortiz
11-13-2002, 06:05 PM
i wont mod my box.......cost me 350+ including warranty.

risk vs. reward is lopsided imho

if it was legal and ms promoted it? sure i would do it. but not when there is a possibility that i can get in trouble, or more importantly have my xbox mess up som how from it

OUberLord
11-13-2002, 10:33 PM
Im gonna add my two cents.

Not everyone buys a mod chip to play pirated games. I want one to use homebrew software, or something like MAMEX (Only non-SDK created for legality reasons) Hell a group already has Linux working on the Xbox. Also, mod chips arent as much of a problem to online gaming as GameSharks are, theres no difference between the two. Also, with Xbox Live, theres always an admin, so if somehow a person who had a modded Xbox found a way to cheat the admin would boot them. Nevermind the fact its theoretically possible to modify game code heading in and outbound by having the data go through a computer first. (Yes, its possible)

zfBRAT
11-14-2002, 03:37 AM
Microsoft is smarter than sony and sega, so good luck to them :p
http://www.watchersweb.com/funnyfarm/f12869-1.jpg

Dre
11-14-2002, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by zfBRAT
Microsoft is smarter than sony and sega, so good luck to them :p


I don't agree. MS has more money, but that doesn't make them smarter.

HaloMasterVI
11-14-2002, 04:32 AM
I remember back in the Dreamcast days of Quake 3 Arena, I was a lucky Broadband adapter owner and I rarely, if ever lost...until this one guy gets on, I dont recall the name, but he never missed a shot. I speced him and it was obviouse something was wwrong cause he wasnt even aiming his shots...so began my hatred on cheaters online...I dont really see the point in it...isnt gaming supposed to prove who the best is?

Hopefully XboxLIVE will keep the cheaters and hackers at bay...permenantly!

Afro Aura
11-14-2002, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by HaloMasterVI
Hopefully XboxLIVE will keep the cheaters and hackers at bay...permenantly!
So do I,
Like you I played PSO which was the first game I played online but what put me off playing the game was the PK's and hackers who could delete your VMU basically killing your character although it didn't happen to me I've heard many people were talking about it

So yeah MS keep these b@stard hackers and cheater from ruining any game online

Spaztic
11-14-2002, 10:49 AM
M$ really shouldn't be diving into taking a strong stand on letting modded xboxes on there network. I having a feeling if they push there luck, hackers will take live down. This is very possible and somewhat easy to do if you know about networks!

Dre
11-14-2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by HaloMasterVI
.isnt gaming supposed to prove who the best is?


Umm no... for me anyways, its to have fun...

Dre
11-14-2002, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Shaggy
M$ really shouldn't be diving into taking a strong stand on letting modded xboxes on there network. I having a feeling if they push there luck, hackers will take live down. This is very possible and somewhat easy to do if you know about networks!

I don't think so... I can assure you MS spent many days & nights prior to launch testing just that. If you think its somewhat easy to do, check out the encryption schemes and new ways to deal with DOS attacks and such. These hackers will have there work cut out for them if they do decide to do something.

Afro Aura
11-14-2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Shaggy
M$ really shouldn't be diving into taking a strong stand on letting modded xboxes on there network. I having a feeling if they push there luck, hackers will take live down. This is very possible and somewhat easy to do if you know about networks!
well think about it if they have already disabled the bios on the XBOX just how much damage they can do if they went online, hackers, cheaters, pk's, stealing passwords and serial numbers

Sorry but I'd like to know that when I'm online I don't have to worry about these things above making me think should I go online of not with the thought that some damn hacker could get hold of any information about myself through the XBOX and I'm sure most people feel the same way

flexotron
11-14-2002, 03:36 PM
Here is a link that I want all of you to read!
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/
For thoses of you that are to lazy, let me explain a few things. A modded xbox works fine on XLive. By using th Yboxdash its a peice of cake. What happens is that when you install thexblive cd opn your modded x box it copies the dashboard on top of the evolution x on cuz us modders have delted the Microsoft one and replaced it by the evolution x and renamed it. But with yboxdash you flash your bios into reading th ydashboad for normal use and you keep the msdashboard with no problem.

If you don't beleive me consult this forum, its all about evultion x.

Hope Ive answered a few questions!
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/

Kortiz
11-14-2002, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Dre


I don't agree. MS has more money, but that doesn't make them smarter.


ummmm....HELLO!!!!

this is MS we are talking about.

besides, ironic how they want to get rid of piracy, yet they have spyware on XP....BIG BROTHER HERE WE COME!

Dre
11-14-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by ChickenSHHHH



ummmm....HELLO!!!!

this is MS we are talking about.


Ya, so?? Money doesn't equate intelligence no matter how much you got. If you think Sony and Sega are not as smart as MS, I'd really like to know why.

Casper
11-14-2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Dre


Ya, so?? Money doesn't equate intelligence no matter how much you got. If you think Sony and Sega are not as smart as MS, I'd really like to know why.

Because neither of them have been successful in the PC business....well, Sony has, but then again, they don't make their hardware...so it really doesn't count. But I still think that MS is getting way too close in knowing everything about everyone...but that's just me and my paranoid self.

GokuX
11-14-2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Dre


I don't agree. MS has more money, but that doesn't make them smarter.

I would argue that to remain in the position that MS currently is in the world, not just in the US, they indeed hold some intelligence over other corporations. Intelligence however can pertain to sheer marketing strategy, business venture strategies, or a whole array of other components within the business structuring. I think that if they were less intelligent than those around them, then they would not have been able to hold their economic positioning as long as they have. Bill Gates obviously outsmarted ALOT of people to get where he is today. I think it continues.

OUberLord
11-14-2002, 04:54 PM
Sorry but I'd like to know that when I'm online I don't have to worry about these things above making me think should I go online of not with the thought that some damn hacker could get hold of any information about myself through the XBOX and I'm sure most people feel the same way That why you shouldnt keep any personal information on any piece of hardware connected to the comp.

Afro Aura
11-14-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by flexotron
Here is a link that I want all of you to read!
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/
For thoses of you that are to lazy, let me explain a few things. A modded xbox works fine on XLive. By using th Yboxdash its a peice of cake. What happens is that when you install thexblive cd opn your modded x box it copies the dashboard on top of the evolution x on cuz us modders have delted the Microsoft one and replaced it by the evolution x and renamed it. But with yboxdash you flash your bios into reading th ydashboad for normal use and you keep the msdashboard with no problem.

If you don't beleive me consult this forum, its all about evultion x.

Hope Ive answered a few questions!

I've had a look and there and couldn't find anything or I was just to lazy to look

So what your saying you can still use your modded XBOX on XBL using the MS Dashboard and only the MS Dashboard and you can't get in using the YBOX Dashboard?

will this stop the PK's, hacker etc coming on XBL to fcuk up the system if they come in using the YXBOX Dashboard?

Evil_Dr_Beefy
11-14-2002, 06:24 PM
C'mon guys.i don't want this to turn into a hackers how to guide...Dude....Then it comes to flashing your bios...think about it before you try it...i read a few storys about guys killing their xbox with a bad flash.... Way to guy dude, posting links to hacker sites is a no -no..... I just wanted to talk about the security, not show folks how to do it....I just wanted to debate the whole mod chip issue and....How long do you think that evo -x is going to last? The xbox live service isn't even up yet......I think that microsoft knows all about it and they have a nasty surprise for those guys who would even try to run a modded system on live....All they would have to do is run a scan of your hard drive (when you connect if you have more than 10 gigs your hit.)..and sent a disable code to clean or stop your hard drive from booting...you can get by for a while....but sooner or later....they are going to catch you....It's just to risky if you ask me..i am also hearing about security on disc now......i know i can't tell you guys what to do but..i wouldn't even try to run a modded box on live.....

Afro Aura
11-14-2002, 09:56 PM
by the way Evil_Dr_Beefy have you bought yourself another XBOX so you can go online:confused:

Evil_Dr_Beefy
11-14-2002, 10:16 PM
Funny you should ask...kicked over xbox. from coffee table...stupid ass modchip..took the point off of my motherboard the dreaded..point 9( all of the hackers know that point)... from t the open box mod..tried to repair but couldn't..sold most parts out of it ......xbox number 3 is history....playing emulators from computer from now on:eek: Won't be able to get a new one untill payday:confused:

Afro Aura
11-14-2002, 10:24 PM
LOL not to worry mate it happens just take care of XBOX 4 using 3 as a football wasn't a good idea in the first place, now was it hehehe :D

well I suppose with XBOX 4 you'll have some free game I'm into that Sega GT2002

zfBRAT
11-16-2002, 05:56 AM
You could have one jazzed up pc by now...lmao
http://www.cool-drinks.com/Root%20Folder/CaffeineFreeDietMtDew.html

zfBRAT
11-16-2002, 06:19 AM
That would be so dumb!


Originally posted by Shaggy
M$ really shouldn't be diving into taking a strong stand on letting modded xboxes on there network. I having a feeling if they push there luck, hackers will take live down. This is very possible and somewhat easy to do if you know about networks!

Zen
11-18-2002, 10:22 PM
patience would have helped anyone whos into modchips get the latest executer 2 or one of the other non-sodering chips... try and get one with a switch, so you jus flip the switch and your on XBL no problem... most of the latest ones plug directly into the back of your computer and can be upgraded, probably to get around xbox lives security... which is said to be only in due time.

i have the emulators and games to play almost any game for every system from Ps1 and down... somebodies working on a Ps2 emulater, and i havnt heard anything about gamecube... but as it always seems...somebodies always working on something somewhere.

for all those who may have destroyed their Xboxs all i can say you should have waited. its easy as 1 screw now. and their upgradable.

Cheers,
:)

HaloMasterVI
11-19-2002, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Dre


Umm no... for me anyways, its to have fun...

But is "fun" running an AIMBOT or stealing someones character when they can't fight you back on an even scale cause they're not a hacker?

HaloMasterVI
11-19-2002, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Dre


Ya, so?? Money doesn't equate intelligence no matter how much you got. If you think Sony and Sega are not as smart as MS, I'd really like to know why.

Exacly! Sony tricked millions into buying a Gipstation 2!

ARONO129
11-19-2002, 09:25 PM
Link to modding and Xbox Live:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28180.html

Serves modders right!!!!

ScorpionX
11-19-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by ARONO129
Link to modding and Xbox Live:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28180.html

Serves modders right!!!!

Thats funny considering these "modders" are on XBL already, there have been numerous solutions to this problem.... And the only reason they don't want mod chips on XBL is because they think modded boxes can cheat, not because of pirating......

OUberLord
11-19-2002, 10:31 PM
Serves modders right!!!! Right, so suddenly people who want to modify their Xbox for legitimate reasons shouldnt be able to use Xbox Live? Thats like saying you MUST NOT ever have had C++ installed on your computer if you ever want to go on the internet with it.

"Oh, is someone has C++ they could do all kinds of bad things on the internet and make viruses and aimbots and whatnot so they shouldnt be on the internet!"

Theres nothing different between that satiracle view on that point and the point itself, theyre both equally retarded. I want to mod my Xbox, not to run burned games or cheat or hack, but to be able to run programs that I created on my xbox. Also, having a mod chip isnt the only foreseeable way for a person to cheat on Xbox Live, as I have already pointed out a few ways it could be done.

Classifying an entire group of people as cheaters before you even consider the fact not all of them would mod their xboxes to cheat is sheer stupidity.

Afro Aura
11-19-2002, 10:50 PM
look OUberLord the reason people don't want hackers/cheaters on XBOX Live as you said using C++ it may be possible to take someones account or whatever, so I'm glad they're trying to get these modders of XBOX Live sure it's a shame that people who want to do there own stuff on there XBOXs I say have fun but don't use the same machine to corrupt the XBL server, that all

if you want to use XBL go and buy yourself an un-modded XBOX

OUberLord
11-19-2002, 11:54 PM
So, your saying forcing me to buy another $200 console is a legitimate option? What I dont understand is why they dont try to implement something server side. The client side stuff is easier then hell to get around, in ways i will not disclose here because I dont want cheaters/hackers any more than you do. However, forcing people to buy another system is ridiculous.

ARONO129
11-20-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by OUberLord
Right, so suddenly people who want to modify their Xbox for legitimate reasons shouldnt be able to use Xbox Live? Thats like saying you MUST NOT ever have had C++ installed on your computer if you ever want to go on the internet with it.

"Oh, is someone has C++ they could do all kinds of bad things on the internet and make viruses and aimbots and whatnot so they shouldnt be on the internet!"

Theres nothing different between that satiracle view on that point and the point itself, theyre both equally retarded. I want to mod my Xbox, not to run burned games or cheat or hack, but to be able to run programs that I created on my xbox. Also, having a mod chip isnt the only foreseeable way for a person to cheat on Xbox Live, as I have already pointed out a few ways it could be done.

Classifying an entire group of people as cheaters before you even consider the fact not all of them would mod their xboxes to cheat is sheer stupidity.

so most people who mod their Xboxes do so for legitimate reasons right? Get real & give your head a shake.

Dre
11-20-2002, 12:46 AM
Ouberlord, when you agreed to go on XBL you gave authority to MS to disallow axs to you if you have a modded box. Read the ToA. It sucks, I agree, but gotta live with it. And even though you might not cheat, others have and will and have already spoiled it for those that have modded Xbox's without pirated sw.

And btw, banning modded Xbox's by putting them on a list is a server-side solution. A client-side solution would mean software running on your Xbox looking for modchips which isn't the case (or so I've heard... anyone know if there's some sw on the Xbox I dunno bout?)

OUberLord
11-20-2002, 08:14 AM
True but im saying, nevermind the fact this has been already pointed out this will do nothing to stem the tide against any from of modchip cheating, that it only hurts the honest people. The cheaters who really want to cheat have already found ways around it.

Also, I would assume there has to be something that is on the Xbox that would find out if you have a modchip or not, but it is probably only a small thing incorporated into Xbox Live such as a bios version identifier.


so most people who mod their Xboxes do so for legitimate reasons right? Get real & give your head a shake All of the people I know with Xboxes want to do just that. I know that doesnt speak for all people, but most.

With every current and foreseeable Live game being run by an admin, why not just give them powers to ban them from their own server and a place to report bad people like in the Beta? That way modchippers or not, cheaters or not, if someone is doing something or acting inappropriate is dealt with.

Afro Aura
11-20-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by OUberLord
With every current and foreseeable Live game being run by an admin, why not just give them powers to ban them from their own server and a place to report bad people like in the Beta? That way modchippers or not, cheaters or not, if someone is doing something or acting inappropriate is dealt with.
Hmm sounds like a good idea, lets see what happens

BlubberBuns
11-20-2002, 05:55 PM
OUberLord,

Dude, sorry, all mod chips are bad, there is no legit reason to mod other than to steal (or cheat maybe). I hope Microsoft was smart enough to be able to evolve their mod detection over time, to match the hackers, it will be a never ending battle. Mod chips are on the road to cheating, no doubt about it, and I hope the 'softies keep on fighting tooth and nail to a) prevent game theft, and b) prevent online cheating. Whatever they decide the most economical way to do that is their business, literally. God bless 'em, they're gonna need it.

Kortiz
11-20-2002, 06:17 PM
This is no Democracy, MS owns this business and they have the right to do what they want (legally) and they are doing everything (legally) as far as Mod chips go.

Whoever modded their box, knew it was wrong. So deal with it.

Dre
11-20-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by BlubberBuns
OUberLord,

Dude, sorry, all mod chips are bad, there is no legit reason to mod other than to steal (or cheat maybe). I hope Microsoft was smart enough to be able to evolve their mod detection over time, to match the hackers, it will be a never ending battle. Mod chips are on the road to cheating, no doubt about it, and I hope the 'softies keep on fighting tooth and nail to a) prevent game theft, and b) prevent online cheating. Whatever they decide the most economical way to do that is their business, literally. God bless 'em, they're gonna need it.

reason for modding other than stealing or cheating: linux, emulators, divx player, mp3 player. Can't really think of anything else at the moment. I just want to point out to you that not "all mod chips are bad". You sorta sound like the councillor from South Park... "mod chips are bad...mmmmkay?" hehehe... anyways, don't put everyone in the same boat cuz not everyone with a mod chip is out to destroy your Xbox on xbl or cheat. I wish they'd find some other solution, but doesn't seem like there is one, and thats why I'll be buyin a 2nd Xbox soon.

OUberLord
11-20-2002, 09:57 PM
Exactly, its the just closed minded, ignorant thought. I see absolutely no reason mod chips are considered illegal, sure they can be used for illegal purposes but so can guns, cars, and medicine but you dont see all of those being branded as contraband and getting such a stigma.


This is no Democracy, MS owns this business and they have the right to do what they want (legally) and they are doing everything (legally) as far as Mod chips go. Im sorry, but yes we do live a country that has democracy and two little somethings called the freedom of voice and the freedom of opinion and allthough yes MS does have the right to do what they want with their service, I also have every right to criticise it. Deal with that.

As Dre stated, there much more to mod chips than cheating, hacking, or anything illegal for that matter. Sure many people buy them to be able to use burned games they got off the internet, but what about the people who want to use it to just give their Xbox a larger variety of uses? If I want to burn backups of games I own so I dont screw up my games, I should be able to. If I want to be able to backup my Xbox harddrive to my computer, I should be able to. Whats the difference between banning chipped xboxes and banning, say, anyone who uses a programmable controller? They can just program all the combos they want and use them while most people have to actually put them in, like in fighting games and such. Thats cheating and yet noone seems to care.

Nevermind the fact that modchipped or not cheating can and will happen on Xbox Live. Its all too easy to intercept the code the Xbox sends out and I can guarantee its only a matter of time before the decrpytion key becomes publicly available. Once that happens MS and Xbox Live will face a serious problem. Rather than giving server ops the power to ban cheaters and hackers from their own servers and report them, MS is basing their entire current anti-cheat program on whether or not modchips are installed on client systems.

Hell having a modchip is sounding even better now. If Linux is up and running on an Xbox, Id say getting a firewall to prevent someone from stealing my Xbox Live account isnt out of the question. Meanwhile unmodded Xboxes are at the whims of the security of the Xbox Live system that, once the decryption key is found, will be cracked wide open.

Dre: Check your PMs