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View Full Version : If games like MA, GR, and UC are only good on xbl then XBOX will be complete failure



borka105
11-15-2002, 10:01 PM
I have been going from board to board, website to website.

I have posted several threads on several sites about these 3 games.

All I keep hearing is "you have to get xbl to enjoy the game"
"the game is not worth $50 if you don't play it online"

If this is true then it's pretty sad. All of these 3 games have been talked about for weeks. They were supposed to separate the XBOX from the other 2 consoles.

But.............................

If these 3 games can't even deliver a good single player experience then they are pretty much worthless!!!

Why.................................?

Because XBL is for hardcore gamers. Most gamers who own and xbox (over 85%) will never own XBL. They are getting these games for a good single player experience, and multiplayer is bonus.

With is in mind, and from what I have been hearing from this site, xboaddict, and funxbox...... all of these 3 games sound like failures.

Prove me wrong, Please do so because I have the money saved up here in my room on these games. I want to purchase them, but it doesn't seem like they offer anything worthy......

-Borka105

Mega Gamer
11-15-2002, 10:29 PM
First of all dont say crap about Xbox Live! You can have XBconnect to in joy the games! Its free, but it not as good as Xbox Live!

Frostberg
11-15-2002, 10:40 PM
Not true...every person who owns an xbox prolly has the urge to get live, and ablot half of them have broadband...out of the 50% that dont have broadband 25% or so will get it just for live.

You dont have to be a hardcore gamer to want to play live. The average gamer wants to play with other real people. XBL allows this.

There were already 30,000 people on live before it was even officially released...thats more than 1.5 million bucks MS has made for only 30,000 people...now imagine the money they are making from licensing and such.

Now, if you want to say they cant deliver a good single player experience..well I can also argue with that one.

Halo sucked. Ok well I cant say that, but the single player wasnt really all that much, at least not compared to the multiplayer aspect of it. Gamers want to play with real people, not just computers. Real people can do anything...which makes the game more exciting. Halo was innovative, but it didnt sell more than a million copies because of the fun single player experience...I could also bet most people spent more time playing halo multiplayer then they did on single player...


Playing against a comp is pretty much just hoards of enemies, while multiplayer can actually have strategy involved...and it is much more fun to brag about winning and interact with people...



Ill just say this...I didn't buy MechAssault for the single player...but I should of played it more before I dove onto XBL...one dumbass called me a newb! He has had the game for...ohh a day or so...ahh I'm getting better now so bah!

borka105
11-15-2002, 11:58 PM
frostberg, I would love to agree with you, but the reason many people buy consoles is to enjoy a full 25 hour single player experience, without having to sit in a chair, and stair at a 21' screen.

In addition, many people that own an xbox have no clue about it's online capabilities.

The one who will play xbox online are HARDCORE GAMERS. Remember, this isn't free. We are talking about a monthly charge.................................


It would be much better if these 3 games delivered a great single player experience in addition to the multiplayer.

Look at Metroid Prime- The game only has a single player mode, but is getting reviews of 9.7 and up. Look at GTA VICE CITY, These are the games that gamers want to play.

XBL is not the answer, but I sure hope I get it soon :)

-Borka105

Frostberg
11-16-2002, 01:02 AM
Yeah I know games like GTA and Metroid prime are great, but they are enjoyable and extremely open ended, at least GTA is. GTA can be fun for as long as you want to kill people...

There is not a monthly fee...as of yet. Anyway, there are probably around 1 million gamers who pay a monthly fee for MMORPGs alone...and just wait until the sims is online...

All the XBL games are fun to play single player, but I you are right in regards to them being built around XBL. But then again, when someone has MechAssault and he goes over to play a round with HaRrY pOtHeAd he will soon realize he NEEDS XBL! It opens so much more...plus replay value has advanced so far when you play games online, it really does make it worth the price...

Highlite23
11-16-2002, 01:07 AM
Borka dude take a pill..................:D

I have all three and they are fine games without XBL, you still have multi-player and system link.

Obviouslly the XBL side of these games put them way over the top, but they are great titles on there own.;)

xb_jim
11-16-2002, 03:52 AM
bah, online or not.. theyll need to make good single player games.

who plays a game ONLY for its multiplayer?

when i got halo, the first thing i did was try its single player.. then i went and did the entire thing in co op with my bro. (i dont consider co-op the same as XBL.. you might tho)

same with time-splitters, me and my bro went through it co-op.. its just more fun. i dont think i could ever do an entire game ONLINE co-op, its just not the same.. i play online to try to beat others, not let them help me beat the single player missions.

tony hawk i went through 1 player. only played a few times online on xbc (not many games).

but yeah, theyre gonna HAVE to make some sort of effort towards a single player mode.. no one plays online all the time, it would get boring =/

i dont think there is any worry about developers stopping good quality single player type games, theyll still be around.. but you might not see them as hyped/talked about as multiplayer/online things. (after all, its the *NEW!* thing.. hah)

Afro Aura
11-16-2002, 08:21 AM
borka105 these people say you get the best out of playing online, not true I've bought Mech Assault and I think it's a great game I don't have XBL over here in the UK sure it may get better playing it online but at the moment I'm fine with this.

CharlieHustle
11-16-2002, 08:56 AM
I have NBA2k3 and GR. I like the single player better than playin on live(as for now of course) . And i actually have live. I agree with what you r sayin but their games arent made exactly for live, they are fun by themselves also. I dont think that MS are that stupid or shall i say their developers are that stupid to only tailor to us LIVE customers, then they will miss out on the 75-80 percent who doesnt have live. But lets not forget games like Splinter Cell and other games that arent multiplayer at all. If im right, there are only like 5-6 games that are out now that are live enabled compared to a library of 50+. I think they know what they (MS) are doin.

borka105
11-16-2002, 10:56 AM
I understand, I am just kind of disapointed because I have all this money saved up for these games, and from all the reviews I have read, they all say that "this game shines online"

Sure, it's great that they are so fun online and really show off what the xbox is made out of, but at the same time it's quite a let down for me.

I guess I will be buying Shenmue 2, and Deathrow for now, and later Ghost Recon and Mechassault.

Enjoy guys
-Borka105

Kooster
11-16-2002, 11:13 AM
UC is better online, i have to admit. i feel sorry for all you ppl that cant get xbl. i dunno about xbox failing b/c of it, tho. whatabout splinter cell, brute force, panzer dragoon orta, starwars kotor, and oll the other good non-online games coming out. i know some arent coming out for a while.....but theyre still gonna be great.

Ultron-9
11-16-2002, 11:15 AM
These early Xbox live gamers who swear the game is poop without XBL are just trying to hype up the online experience.

I welcome the cheerleading, but they shouldn't dis the games if they expect others to buy into the games online or off.

ShannonX
11-16-2002, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by borka105
frostberg, I would love to agree with you, but the reason many people buy consoles is to enjoy a full 25 hour single player experience, without having to sit in a chair, and stair at a 21' screen.

In addition, many people that own an xbox have no clue about it's online capabilities.

The one who will play xbox online are HARDCORE GAMERS. Remember, this isn't free. We are talking about a monthly charge.................................


It would be much better if these 3 games delivered a great single player experience in addition to the multiplayer.

Look at Metroid Prime- The game only has a single player mode, but is getting reviews of 9.7 and up. Look at GTA VICE CITY, These are the games that gamers want to play.

XBL is not the answer, but I sure hope I get it soon :)

-Borka105


looks at himself... nope, not a hardcore gamer, but definately got live... I consider hardcore gamers as those who put at least 30 hours of gaming in a week, or more. And thats only about 5 hours a day each day of the week. I barely play 10 hours if i'm lucky... so no, more than just hardcore gamers will be getting xbox live and enjoying it.

Frink
11-16-2002, 12:10 PM
I have both UC and Mechassault. I will admit I haven't played Single Player UC, but I'd imagine it's a lot like the online version, it's a tournament. Just like UT and UT2k3, they sold a ton of copies, and the single player is just like the multiplayer with bots. It's not the single player experience that sells a game, it's the whole package.

Also, Mechassault has a really great single player mode. But everything is more fun with other people, imho. But I do play the Single Player in MA and it is quite fun.

borka105
11-16-2002, 04:15 PM
Shanon, the fact that you vist an xbox oriented site and are a moderator prove that you aren't the every day Joe.

more than 75% of all the people that own video games probably don't even know what a router is, or what it's used for.


Sure it's great that we have these 3 games, but I would have loved for MS to focus on the single player experience first, and then focus on the multiplayer (xbox live) aspect. Of course, UC is an exception.

-Borka105

Shadow20002
11-16-2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by borka105
Shanon, the fact that you vist an xbox oriented site and are a moderator prove that you aren't the every day Joe.

more than 75% of all the people that own video games probably don't even know what a router is, or what it's used for.


Sure it's great that we have these 3 games, but I would have loved for MS to focus on the single player experience first, and then focus on the multiplayer (xbox live) aspect. Of course, UC is an exception.

-Borka105

Agree with you. I like to have more single player games than multiplayer games. But in my opinion, MS try to bring every game to support XBL. In the case of Splinter Cell, now we know in FACT that this game will support XBL to download content (new missions, costumes, weapons, etc). So if someone cannot get XBL, he will miss some nice feature that add to this game... And then, they will reconsider to buy it or not...A down way move....

Afro Aura
11-16-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Shannon-XBA
I consider hardcore gamers as those who put at least 30 hours of gaming in a week, or more. And thats only about 5 hours a day each day of the week. I barely play 10 hours if i'm lucky... so no, more than just hardcore gamers will be getting xbox live and enjoying it.
Hmmm I'm not quite sure about this Harecore Gamer bit, we all are here, I bet you've had all consoles and computers in your time so in my eyes that means you are a hardcore gamer it don't matter how many hours you play on your machine/computer it's the case that you love to play video games

simple really :D

but to tell you the truth I fell into the trap of playing a game for hours and thats when I first played Phantasy Star Online (DC), it was the first game I playd online and I was stuck to this damn game for hours, man it almost turned me into a recluse :confused: good thing that my friends were around to save me or I would have lost all social skills:eek:
Hang on thats not quite true, I did have a keyboard and it was great talking to all these people all over the world, I want to see what gonna happen when we start talking to each other, that gonna be so cool

Bring it on PSO

an0nym0u5
11-17-2002, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by borka105
I
All I keep hearing is "you have to get xbl to enjoy the game"
"the game is not worth $50 if you don't play it online"

-Borka105

What about Counter-Strike? That's a major success. EverQuest and Quake 3 were too. You really don't need single player for a game to be successful. Single player capabilities doesn't always make or break a game.

GokuX
11-17-2002, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by borka105
Shanon, the fact that you vist an xbox oriented site and are a moderator prove that you aren't the every day Joe.

more than 75% of all the people that own video games probably don't even know what a router is, or what it's used for.


Sure it's great that we have these 3 games, but I would have loved for MS to focus on the single player experience first, and then focus on the multiplayer (xbox live) aspect. Of course, UC is an exception.

-Borka105

I disagree. I believe multi is equally important if not moreso in the orientation of these titles. Fact is these games really can't be done effectively without the XBox and XBL (I'm not going to count the PS2 online since it really can't compare to XBL) so they infact separate the Xbox from the other consoles. Single Player only lasts so long, after that the game is done for. Multiplayer can give life to a game well beyond 3 years which = more $. Lets look at an extreme example shall we. GTA3, either title, Original or Vice City. These games probably exhibit the highest level of SP goodness and look how long the game has lasted in game charts. Now imagine if it had online support that completely rocked, even more than the SP. Well you can almost conclude that this game could have a potential life span longer than 7 years. That equals a ton of money.

Rancey
11-17-2002, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by xb_jim
but yeah, theyre gonna HAVE to make some sort of effort towards a single player mode.. no one plays online all the time, it would get boring =/

Actually, I have put ~20mins. into CnC renegade single player (terrible game single player), and possibly in the hundreds of hours online. So to say no one plays online all the time isn't fully correct ;)

Someone else (I think Shannon) pointed out there are at least 1million people who pay a monthly fee for MMPORPGs, there are a lot more than 1million people who play MMPORPGs and pay a monthly fee, some of these games are huge. These games aren't bought for a single player experience.

Personally, I find most people who prefer single player haven't really experienced multiplayer, it just isn't the same playing against a predetermined movement of AI against outthinking a real life opponent.

Snoopy7548
11-17-2002, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by borka105
If these 3 games can't even deliver a good single player experience then they are pretty much worthless!!!


if you want a good "single player experience", go wack off

ShannonX
11-17-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by borka105
Shanon, the fact that you vist an xbox oriented site and are a moderator prove that you aren't the every day Joe.

more than 75% of all the people that own video games probably don't even know what a router is, or what it's used for.


Sure it's great that we have these 3 games, but I would have loved for MS to focus on the single player experience first, and then focus on the multiplayer (xbox live) aspect. Of course, UC is an exception.

-Borka105


actually the fact that i have a love for technology proves that. when xbox was first announced, i read that news article and said, thats the console i'm getting, not the gamecube (like i was going to do, or rather the dolphin as it was known then), or the ps2 (which hadn't come out yet)..... i like the single player experience as much as the next person, some times i just dont want to play against a live person. Sometimes i like to play online, it really just depends on the mood i'm in.

Slacker
11-17-2002, 02:59 PM
Why must some Xbox Owners WHINE about everything, Live games will have single player ,

Unreal tournement 2003 for PC has a singel player even though Most will buy it for Online , your arguement sounds like Daddy ****ed you off and you wanted to Complain, The games you mentioned all have great Single player , Buy them at EB and if you don't like it return it, and stop spreading Doom and Gloom .....with your pathectic predictions on something thats only a few days old,

borka105
11-17-2002, 05:40 PM
Everything you guys say is true. Sure if anyone has played games online before, then they will definitely get XBOX LIVE. If anyone has every played a game like EverQuest before, then they will definitely get XBOX LIVE.

But that my friends is the MINORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only way Microsoft can succeed is if the every day Joe (the Majority) buy these XBOX games.

And the truth is that all 3 of these games offer a Mediocre single player experience. The everyday Joe will buy the game hearing all these good reviews, and when they play it, they will not see what makes these games great. Then they will tell their friends this, and so on.

You have to understand that there a milions and millions of people who play games online on the pc, so to mention that EverQuest has over 1 million users, is meaningless because that's nothing compared to how many others own a pc or play online.

Furthermore, the only way many of the everyday Joe's will GAMBLE and take the RISK of getting something they know nothing aobut XBOX LIVE, is if they feel that the game is good enough and entertaining SINGLE PLAYER.

that's common sense

-Borka105

MerimacHamwich
11-17-2002, 06:08 PM
How can people say Ghost Recon is only good on LIVE. They most likely did not say that. Have you ever played any Tom Clancy games? They are all great single player experiences. UC, well I have UT2003 for PC, no UC yet, but UT has a challenging single player that is a blast when you dont feel like playing online, or if you want to brush up on some skills. Heck, I think it is even more challenging than online. Mech Assault, well it is based on the Mech Warrior series, I haven't played it yet but I garauntee it is a fun single player experience. That is why the other Mech Warrior games have been so succesful.

borka105
11-17-2002, 06:24 PM
So you are saying that if I buy the game knowing that I will never play it on XBOX LIVE that it's worth the $50 purchase?


Mechassault- Is completely different fromm all the Mechwarrior games that are based very much on the single player aspect. Mechassault it primarily directed for XBOX LIVE.

Unreal Championship- Was created for the purpose of XBOX LIVE

Ghost Recon- Has a very mediocre single player game. MOH offers a much more compeling single player experience. Again, the full potential of this game is only seen on XBOX LIVE.

That's very disapointing. That makes all these games niche titles instead of system sellers. I will without a doubt pick one or two of them up, but that's because I have broadband and a big xbox fan.


-Borka105

MerimacHamwich
11-17-2002, 06:31 PM
Just becuase you don't have xbox LIVE doesn't mean you cannot play multiplayer on these games.

Like I said, yes, UT's single player experience is even more fun than online at times.

I loved the single player experience of other Tom Clancy games. There is something to be said for clearing out a museum full of terrorists in 3 minutes.

Mech Assault, I know it isn't exactly the same as the other Mech Warrior games. However, the single player has still got to be fun. You are running around in decomposable environments blowing up enemies.

As far as I know you can play all of these games split screen and at least 2/3 of them on a lan therefor on xbconnect.

It isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.

borka105
11-17-2002, 06:47 PM
believe me, I want these games to succeed just like you do.

-Borka105

Afro Aura
11-17-2002, 07:40 PM
I'll be on for hours when PSO arrives on it,

I love this game

Squidpie
11-17-2002, 07:44 PM
I have read the many comments on this and have a few of my own to make...

I knew almost nothing about things like routers but I bought one in anticipation of getting XBL and so I could play using XBC in the meantime.... I was able to hook it all up by myself with no problem at all... so I really don't see this as an obstacle for anyone who wants Live....there is no other way to really enjoy the online aspect of gaming since 56k sucks for online play.

On the topic of games... I do have some concern that many developers will just intentionally leave out aspects of games that everyone would want... just so they can "milk" us for more money later on... and I think thats wrong... I think that additional content should be more like ... things that wouldn't fit on the original game... and also the developers responding to the demands of the gamers once a game is out ...by adding the things we want....or them adding online play to some of the games already released... like Halo... I wish they would make it playable on Live.

Caesar SYN
11-17-2002, 07:49 PM
Well first, look at Computers where has all the gaming gone? Online.. it makes sense to introduce a new Console and invest in being the first one with Internet Connection that works..

Now lets see how it pans out.. I dont plan on commiting myself to any system but to gaming in general.. and this does advance the gaming world into this new level. Competition as we all know stimulates this to give us a better product..

:eek: