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Xaminor
11-22-2002, 09:33 PM
Please watch the launguage when you leave a remark because I want them to know mature people are signing this petition. This is my petition and trust me when I say they will be getting this!

Splinter Cells 8.6 and Steel Battalions 7.3 were the last draw. Those are ridiculous scores compared to other reviewers, they are way too inconsistant and this time they have gone too far.

http://www.petitiononline.com/broc33/petition.html

carlbme
11-22-2002, 09:55 PM
Dude, take your pathetic stuff elsewhere.

For once I actually agree with the majority over at TXB, which is that this is crap. A review is an OPINION not a fact. You don't like their reviews, don't read them. It's that simple.

Variation-XBA
11-22-2002, 10:29 PM
No thanks

Xaminor
11-22-2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by carlbme
Dude, take your pathetic stuff elsewhere.

For once I actually agree with the majority over at TXB, which is that this is crap. A review is an OPINION not a fact. You don't like their reviews, don't read them. It's that simple.

You don't agree with anything. The majority of the people that have visited the thread over there have signed a few others (like you) haven't signed and gave a post just like yours.

Although you guys at least deserve an explanation of why I am doing this, so don't get mad, because I just want them to change the way they are reviewing and this is why.


What I plan on doing is Writing up a long complaint to GS about the way they are doing their scoring and I have gathered up literally hundreds of reviews of games such as the Xbox version of Rocky, Splinter Cell, Steel Battalion, Shenmue (on the DC, they gave it a 7.8 and yes Sega use to be the victim to them), and I am researching several others. I am completely committed to this, and my letter to them, and their response will be posted in this thread.

My ultimate goal is to get them to change the way they are reviewing games because it is making Xbox games look bad. They should review Xbox games as a game in general and not what they feel the system can accomplish.


In one hand they will give a great PS2 game that is fun but nothing technically immpressive a great score and in another hand they will give a great game on the Xbox that isn't even possible on the PS2 a lower score than that great PS2 game. The buggy Vice City compared to Splinter Cell for instance, and sure we realize that they score games depending on the system, but others don't realize this and it makes people think that GTA 3.1 is a better game than Splinter Cell which in turn misleads people.

It would be like them saying that a Honda Accord is a 10 and not mention anything of its class and then give a Lamborghini Diablo an 8 because the competition for the Lamborghini is more stiff.

Now think about that last sentence and keep in mind that the PS2 and Xbox are actually both comparable in price and are actually in competition with one another.

I basically want them to review games based on how good of a game it is overall, not just a good Xbox game. When they give Vice City almost a perfect score and then give Splinter Cell an 8.6 it misleads people to believe that Vice City isn't leagues above Splinter Cell and this just isn't true, especially technically, as a matter of fact it isn't even close technically and if you think about it Vice City is just a rehash with several bugs. If you don't beleive me about the bugs Read Tech TV's Extended Play and if you don't believe them watch the show, because they actually show the bugs and these bugs are the reason it got a 4 out of 5 followed by MGS 2: Substances and Splinter Cells 5 out of 5's.

They are inconsistant

No big deal, I don't hate them, or anything, and I don't want people giving bad remarks to them when they sign the petition. I just want to let them know how I and others feel and maybe they will change it.

Look they aren't bad reviewers and I gaurentee you they would be the first to admitt SC is at least as good as Vice City but after reading the reviews of both games you wouldn't know this. They basically review games depending on the system so it makes it seem as if VC is leagues ahead of SC which just isn't true.

Sorry you don't agree, don't sign. No one is forcing you to sign or even read my posts for that matter.

MerimacHamwich
11-22-2002, 10:39 PM
I signed it.

Xbox Owner
11-22-2002, 11:07 PM
We can't do anything..It's there site.:rolleyes:

Discretion
11-22-2002, 11:10 PM
OMG. What do you people do?! Look @ a score and don't read why they think that? Well, than you deserve to hate them. You guys just go by a score and think they are wrong without LOOKING FOR THE FLAWS! @ least one guy said dont listen to them if you dont want 2... Anyways, whoever signs the pention has a serious problem...

Xaminor
11-22-2002, 11:55 PM
Dude until you have played Steel Battalion and then read that they gave the game (I believe) a 4 in replay value, you would know it was bs too.

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 12:32 AM
Just for the record/


Steel Batallion Average = 96.25% Gamespot Review = 73.00%
Splinter Cell Average = 97.71% Gamespot Review = 86.00%

MaxPain
11-23-2002, 12:33 AM
Xaminor I agree that their review scores are pretty sad.. And I don't think your overdoing it having a petition... Although I don't think it will accomplish much... good luck.. :)

xboxmaster2002
11-23-2002, 12:36 AM
yeah its BS but signing a petition.... you have a better chance of turning a PS2 fanboy into an xbox fanboy than you do changing the way that gamespot reveiws. trying to change how gamespot reveiws with that petition its worthless, i dont like the reveiws but do you think they care what other people think, its a reveiw aka an opinion play the game and if you like it great dont worry about the reveiws.

MerimacHamwich
11-23-2002, 12:56 AM
Wow, "this is crap, that is crap. How much more useless can that thing be. Oh my god I cannot believe that guy did that, what a loser, this is retarded. You are a dumbass."

I personally think you people have a problem. Why would you hate someone so much as to flame them for making a petition for what they believe is right. This is North America. He has a right to do this just as much as Gamespot has the right to be retarded.

Worst of all is that you all agree with his opinion. However, you still bash him. What kind of nonsensical crap is that? You need to think a little more before you post. I would try not being so negative for starters.

Dre
11-23-2002, 01:00 AM
I thought the exact same thing as Carlbme until your second post where you explain why the petition Xaminor. I've now signed...

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 01:18 AM
Thanks guys.


ou have a better chance of turning a PS2 fanboy into an xbox fanboy than you do changing the way that gamespot reveiws

I have actually done this;)

Keep in mind people that this is nothing new.

They use to do the same thing with Sega. A PSX would come out and be God's gift to gamers and then Shenmue comes out to the Dreamcast and they give it a 7.8

This is the same game that the developers had as a candidate for Game of the Year and all they can do is complain about the "tedius" gameplay.

They gave Sonic CD like a 5 in replay value, another game that got rave reviews so this is nothing new, MS has taken Sega's place in the videogame industry, that is all there is to it.

I mean this is getting to the point of ludicrous.

xboxmaster2002
11-23-2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Xaminor
Thanks guys.

I have actually done this;)


yeah but can you do it to a whole site?

shrew king
11-23-2002, 01:48 AM
i dont read reviews, but i totally agree with what your trying to do. for Splinter Cell to get an 8.6 is crazy. hope its a success Xaminor.

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 02:18 AM
Going to bed now, get that petitioned signed.

XBOX Dude
11-23-2002, 12:31 PM
their rating system is bs, there review stated that it would be better if you didn't have to do things over and over to figure it out, well this may be true to a point it's also part of the gameplay you know trying things diffrent ways and name me a tom clancy game were you didn't have to try things over and over to get it right.
i don't go to that site anymore and if you ask me that's the best petition there is

EHWfedPres
11-23-2002, 12:36 PM
I only read reviews to see what the game is like before i buy it...but scores mean nothing. Some idiot's opinion is no more important than mine or my mother's or anyone else's...but most people dont realize that. They see a game get a bad score and then they dont want to buy it. They see a game get a great score and then think about buying it. Its no secret that gamespot's review scores are extremely ƒucked up...

y2kash_14
11-23-2002, 01:11 PM
its cool your trying to get Gamespot to stop being retarded, but i dont think this Petition will accomplish anything. If Gamespot is a fanboy, then they will be a fanboy. I mean have your tried to convince a fanboy to stop being fanboyish? its nearly impossible

Shadow20002
11-23-2002, 01:25 PM
Anyway, Gamespot is only ONE site that give some low scores to Xbox games. But don't pay attention and flame on it because think a little bit about this one: one site can't change much for all. I'm sure all the other sites will give more than 9.0 on 10 !!! After that all the people will know that GS is not truly a reviewer of gaming...




P.S. I think they (GS) are trying to say that Xmas has nothing for Xbox...

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by o0_Nightfall_0o
You know, I really used to think all this GameSpot is biased stuff was BS. But lately, seeing the huge gap between GS reviews and everybody else, it has been making me wonder. I mean, look at this... Grand Theft Auto: Vice City got the same graphics score as Splinter Cell and Steel Battalion. Think about that one for a second. Yes, I understand rating a game based on it's system's capabilities. But are you seriously telling me that SC and SB rate the same in graphics as GTA? I don't think so, regardless of system differences.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/news/11/05/v_screen007.jpg

and

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/xbox/splintercell/xsplinter_screen032.jpg

deserve the same graphics score? Hardly.

xboxmaster2002
11-23-2002, 02:55 PM
they rate on how the game takes advantage of the system power not how much better it looks that PS2 games, if that was the case 90% of xbox games would get a 10 for graphics.

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 03:25 PM
"they rate on how the game takes advantage of the system power not how much better it looks that PS2 games, if that was the case 90% of xbox games would get a 10 for graphics."

Well that is exactly what I am trying to get them to stop doing. The two systems are in competition with one another, it makes people think that the other game is better, there is no way in hell that glichy/buggy Vice City is better than Splinter Cell and we know for a fact it doesn't look better.

Now me and you realize this is what they are doing but most people do not realize this, and it is making PS2 games look leagues ahead of Xbox games which isn't true.

There are games on the Xbox that look worse than PS2 games, look at the new LotR game on the PS2, it looks amazing, so just because the system is a peice of **** to develop for and developers need to work harder to get good graphics out of it, doesn't substantiate a handicap for the graphics or sound scores of its games.

They don't have a problem with replay value, although they are definately inconsistant with other reviewers giving Steel Battallion a ****ing 4 in replay value, sorry but that is a JOKE!

MerimacHamwich
11-23-2002, 03:27 PM
Once again I will bring in the argument of no disclaimer. There is no disclaimer saying that they rate according to the system on the website so they are still giving xbox the shaft. Anyhow, how can they rate a game on system potential. Do they know the exact maximum a game can look on it? I bet no one does. So I find it extremely hard to believe this. Are they rating according to other games on the system? I doubt it. Halo got a 9 for graphics and they are pretty outdated now. UC looks better, Deathrow looks better, Transworld snowboarding looks better, Enclave looks better and I am sure there are other games that look better as well. Like Splinter Cell for example. Yet they do not get better graphics scores. Heck UC only got an 8. Splinter Cell only got a 9. Transworld only got an 8. Deathrow only got an 8. Enclave got a 9.

My case is that what they said is basically a lie. For it to be true they would have to continually update their scores, becuase the more games that come out the better they start looking. Therefor the graphics expectations of the system improves.

In conclusion, they are biased against xbox. It is a very popular website and lots of people wholly trust it. Therefor some who, for some reason go by what reviewers say, will base a game or even a console purchase on what they read. I don't exactly know why they care if somebody buys an xbox, I mean it is the most advanced console out there. They seem to raelly want to sway people away from it though. They are corrupt and should be taught a lesson.

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 03:46 PM
More facts to consider...


Originally posted by ih8fiedler

Splinter Cell - lowest 8.6, average is 96

Steel Battalion - lowest by far 7.3 average is 92, would be 97 or so without gamespot review.

Dead or Alive 3 - One of the lower ones 7.9, the average is 85%

gunvalkriye - gamespot gave it a 6.2, average is a 73

Shenmue 2 - gamespot gave it a 73 and the average is an 85

Toe Jam and Earl 3- gamespot 5.0 and the average is 74

Cutting a game down ten points from the average shows how off they are. Also take into account that without the gamespot review alot of the averages would be even higher. Splinter cell would be in about 97 or 98 and steel battalion would be up there 2. I'm sure there are more undercutted scores but i dont feel like looking anymore. Add games to the list that gamespot undercutted.

Xaminor
11-23-2002, 03:49 PM
Good points Merim. Splinter Cell definately looks better yet Halo has the same score in Graphics.

xboxmaster2002
11-23-2002, 03:51 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ih8fiedler

Splinter Cell - lowest 8.6, average is 96

Steel Battalion - lowest by far 7.3 average is 92, would be 97 or so without gamespot review.

Dead or Alive 3 - One of the lower ones 7.9, the average is 85%

gunvalkriye - gamespot gave it a 6.2, average is a 73

Shenmue 2 - gamespot gave it a 73 and the average is an 85

Toe Jam and Earl 3- gamespot 5.0 and the average is 74

Cutting a game down ten points from the average shows how off they are. Also take into account that without the gamespot review alot of the averages would be even higher. Splinter cell would be in about 97 or 98 and steel battalion would be up there 2. I'm sure there are more undercutted scores but i dont feel like looking anymore. Add games to the list that gamespot undercutted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


this is a good point though they are lower than most ratings... but does that mean there more strict or they dont know how to rate xbox games?

MerimacHamwich
11-23-2002, 03:52 PM
I suggest you read my post.

FuNkY mOnK
11-23-2002, 04:07 PM
Who cares anymore what the reviews say, to me splinter cell is a 10 and add the fact that it will have downloadable content. To me I think gta3vc sucks, haven’t played it, but the whole premises and cartony environment does nothing for my gaming needs, that’s my opinion. When steel battalion becomes available by the truck load I will definitely buy it.

Mercury
11-23-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Xaminor
"they rate on how the game takes advantage of the system power not how much better it looks that PS2 games, if that was the case 90% of xbox games would get a 10 for graphics."

Well that is exactly what I am trying to get them to stop doing. The two systems are in competition with one another, it makes people think that the other game is better, there is no way in hell that glichy/buggy Vice City is better than Splinter Cell and we know for a fact it doesn't look better.

Now me and you realize this is what they are doing but most people do not realize this, and it is making PS2 games look leagues ahead of Xbox games which isn't true.

There are games on the Xbox that look worse than PS2 games, look at the new LotR game on the PS2, it looks amazing, so just because the system is a peice of **** to develop for and developers need to work harder to get good graphics out of it, doesn't substantiate a handicap for the graphics or sound scores of its games.

They don't have a problem with replay value, although they are definately inconsistant with other reviewers giving Steel Battallion a ****ing 4 in replay value, sorry but that is a JOKE!

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Everyone needs to read this.

rio2012
11-24-2002, 12:56 AM
Dont sign this crap Gamespot has the right to there opinion.

MaxPain
11-24-2002, 03:25 AM
Yes they do have a right to their opinion. But its a guide for a lot of people on what games to get or not to get. Im sure some people dont realize its a review from 1 person. And that thats what the game truly deserves. The score it gets. So it influences people on which game to buy. and giving Splinter Cell an 8.6?? Even if you DISLIKE SC... that score is still to low = ]

LynxFX
11-24-2002, 02:25 PM
I do agree that Gamespot has their right to rate games however they want but I think it is a fine line when it comes to gaming magazines/websites. They are not just a commentary on the gaming industry and the gaming world. They have become a public service that should have rules in place to keep the mag/site unbiased as much as possible.

Judging games solely on their potential on the console they are played on is good in theory but not in practice. This has been been said before by Xaminor but I'll just repeat it because it is completely true. Say a game is released on the PS2 and Xbox at the same time. They are identical, so basically a direct port. The PS2 gets a graphics score of 9 but the Xbox version gets a score of 7. This is probably true. It looks better than any PS2 game out there but on the Xbox those same graphics just aren't up to par on what other games are doing, hence the lower score. So far this all seems like the proper way to do it. Now here comes the public service part, ie the catch. A new gamer is reading the review and sees that the PS2 scored higher than the Xbox version. This will lead to the assumption that the PS2 version is better (scored higher) and bingo, they get the PS2 not realizing the Xbox does the same thing as well as much more.

It is a fine line, and something that probably can't be fixed without creating an entirely new rating system.

Xaminor
11-25-2002, 01:25 AM
"this is a good point though they are lower than most ratings... but does that mean there more strict or they dont know how to rate xbox games?"

Well they don't have a problem with giving PS2 games consistant scores and for the most part PS2 games get better reviews than other gaming sites/magazines give their games, so let's just put two and two together here.

BTW almost at 400 sigs, keep em coming!

xboxmaster2002
11-25-2002, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Xaminor
"this is a good point though they are lower than most ratings... but does that mean there more strict or they dont know how to rate xbox games?"

Well they don't have a problem with giving PS2 games consistant scores and for the most part PS2 games get better reviews than other gaming sites/magazines give their games, so let's just put two and two together here.

BTW almost at 400 sigs, keep em coming!

ok lets put 2 and 2 together game spot likes PS2 more than xbox... whats your point, do you own a PS2??? im guessing no... but PS2 does have a lot of good games they annouced before xbox even came out tha it was 4 times the power of PS2 so maybe gamespot expects more out of xbox. Reveiws are opinions nothing more so why let a bad score bother you if you like the game thats all that matters.

Xaminor
11-25-2002, 07:14 PM
You and me both realize this but the average casual gamer does not.

Rather than buying an Xbox and a copy of Splinter Cell which they were going to, that person may change his/her mind because they saw the Vice City review.

This affects gamers because we all know that more sales results in not only more third party support but more third party exclusive support. I realize and you probably do as well, that if Splinter Cell sold well enough on the Xbox MS would maybe make a deal with Ubi Soft similar to the deal Sony made with Rockstar games and its GTA series just before GTA 3 came to the Xbox.

Another example is Enix. Enix said they would only develop for the most established video game system with the highest userbase, and I beleive if the Xbox comes even close to the PS2 in sales not only will they jump abroad but Square will as well, and I would hate to have to buy ANOTHER PS2 (sold my first one) just to play Dragon Quest from Enix, but I will.

Since the Xbox's release there have been 2 PS2's sold for every Xbox, considering the system is backwards compatible with the PSX and Sony has already established a user base, Xbox is doing pretty damn good and I believe that after Christmas the gap will be closed even further.

BTW I would like to thank Xbox Addict and all of its staff.

Xaminor
11-26-2002, 12:30 AM
450. Moving in on 500 in just two days.

Xaminor
11-27-2002, 02:55 PM
476 the pace is slowing up and this will be my last back to back thread about the issue here, so let's keep it going.

xboxgamer142
11-27-2002, 08:33 PM
I sign this petition. I fully agree that Gamespot cannot rate games (Xbox games). Amped got 6.9 of 10? Shenmue II got 7.3 of 10? I mean really. Halo is almost the only one they actually game a fair rating to. Personally I find IGN.com much better.

Fozzledink
11-28-2002, 03:28 AM
The way I see it, Gamespot lost all creditibility when they began forcing users to pay for even the most basic things. None paying users should at least get the review, but not be allowed access to any screenshots or movies and other such content.

As for their reviews, their just like OXM, EGM, and Game Informer. Theyre biased, take what they say with a grain of salt, rent the game yourself, and make up your own mind. This petition will change nothing.