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PcPreacher
11-23-2002, 10:31 AM
I know that alot of people probably don't care when Gods name is used so much with dis-respect. But personally it bothers me alot. All you have to do is look at my other posts and see that I said splinter cell is the best game i ever played it just is offensive to me when Gods name is used so much and dis-respectfully. I'm sure some of you it does not bother but I really don't see a need to even put that stuff in the games. It doesn't make the game sell better if anything some maybe won't buy it because of it. I know a few people actually alot of people it bothers. I already bought the game and love it but personally I believe Gods name should be respected and not used in any other way but in praise and Honor. If it was no big deal to God, He wouldn't of made it one of the 10 commandments. I know there are some who don't believe in God or who don't really care but for those of us that do I wish they wouldn't use His Name like that in games.

carlbme
11-23-2002, 10:40 AM
I've only played the demo and not the actual game.

The game uses His name in vain :(. That's a bummer. It bothers me a little, but not as much as my family. Hmm, not so sure about this game. :confused:

y2kash_14
11-23-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK
What exactly did Sam Fisher or any one else say in the game that made you this mad? maybe i use gods name so much in vain that i don't even hear it anymore?:eek:

your avatar probably bothers him also:rolleyes:

PcPreacher
11-23-2002, 03:19 PM
http://65.117.84.163:8080/ramgen/exodus/s3051.rm If anyone wants to listen to a teaching about why its so bad to use Gods name like that click the above link, This guy explains it better than I could. Or you can go directly to the web page and near the bottom of page click on Honor His Name tape http://www.searchlightradio.org/teachings/exodus.asp Or for anyone who is just wondering why I posted this thread in the first place

Slacker
11-23-2002, 03:40 PM
Did you have to sink so low as to peddle your religion here, thats sad,

Slacker
11-23-2002, 04:26 PM
Funky Monk........I have one word!...............Amen ......... . I agree

Marc_01
11-23-2002, 06:24 PM
Your comments make no sense and I doubt by your intelligent post Funky monk that you have any idea what you are talking about. Do yourself and the people around you a favor and stop being a fool.

PcPreacher was trying to express something that bothered him in the games he loved and got crap for it. Pathetic.

evil xbox king
11-23-2002, 06:31 PM
As far as I'm concerned, religion is the worst thing in the world. Hell, 80% of wars these days are because of religion. Sept. 11 wouldn't of happened if we weren't so ****** about our religion. And as far as God's commandment "Don't say my name if you don't have anything good to say about me", God is just a greedy ******* who doesn't want to be treated badly. And why the **** do people get killed and **** if God is supposed to be all loving?

PcPreacher
11-23-2002, 11:44 PM
First of all it is sad when someone tries to post an opinion and people like funkymonk who hide behind their computer say all kind of dis-respectful things about me. Kinda reminds me of people in cars driving 40 mph down the road yelling at people standing on the street, (thats brave). I figure he is very young but he still should have more respect for people. Secondly I am not trying to push anything, If you read my post again you can see that. God doesn't force anyone to believe in Him he could but He gave us a free will to choose Him or reject Him. If you want to call Him names or say bad things about Him thats on you. Take your chances. I was just saying something in the game that I don't like just like anyone saying they don't like the graphics in a certain game or the controls etc. Everyone has certain things they like or dislike in games and should be able to state them without someone dis-respecting them.

Dr_J
11-24-2002, 12:46 AM
GOD DAMN IT!

Ooops! Did I hurt your feelings?


You need to chill out, my friend. They're just words. They don't hurt anyone.


Now, when people fly a plane into a building just because you're a different religion, then you have a problem.

Xtopia
11-24-2002, 01:41 AM
You guys need to back off. Seriously.

evil xbox king
11-24-2002, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by Dr_J
GOD DAMN IT!

Ooops! Did I hurt your feelings?


You need to chill out, my friend. They're just words. They don't hurt anyone.


Now, when people fly a plane into a building just because you're a different religion, then you have a problem.

Amen brother.

Bakeman
11-24-2002, 03:09 AM
You know what..
it's kinda funny...

I look at saying "God D***IT" (<-- just being nice here)
as asking him a favor...

I know when some people say it, it's usually when they get mad at something..


so it's like asking him to damn something for you :) hehehe


Anyways I've just never really understood why it was bad..
Maybe I could check out that link , naw probably doesn't explain what I need it to :)

datalink7
11-24-2002, 06:45 AM
You guys are being kind of harsh to PcPreacher here. He is just posting his opionion, which he has a perfect right to post. Everyone here is getting all up in arms just because it is religious in nature? You start attacking him and his religion all of a sudden?

Get a life, geeze.

As for your origional post, PcPreacher.

I think that there are several things to consider. For one, I don't think that the creators of the game were meaning to be disrespectful of God, whethere they were or not. I haven't played the game yet (get it tommorow), but I bet in the instances that it was used they were just going for more effect and atmosphere. It wasn't like they set out to clown God on purpose or something.

Second, times have changed somewhat. While it is too bad that this offends some people (and I mean too bad as in it is too bad it has to happen, not too bad these people get offended by it), it is also true that most people don't get really offended by it. If most people did, I'm sure they wouldn't put it in the game.

Anyway, just a few things to consider.

Oh. I wouldn't normally mention this, but I want you to know because of the previous posters. I am an atheist. You see, we don't all go around attacking people for their beliefs :)

FuNkY mOnK
11-24-2002, 07:10 AM
...

FuNkY mOnK
11-24-2002, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by PcPreacher
First of all it is sad when someone tries to post an opinion and people like funkymonk who hide behind their computer say all kind of dis-respectful things about me. Kinda reminds me of people in cars driving 40 mph down the road yelling at people standing on the street, (thats brave). I figure he is very young but he still should have more respect for people. Secondly I am not trying to push anything, If you read my post again you can see that. God doesn't force anyone to believe in Him he could but He gave us a free will to choose Him or reject Him. If you want to call Him names or say bad things about Him thats on you. Take your chances. I was just saying something in the game that I don't like just like anyone saying they don't like the graphics in a certain game or the controls etc. Everyone has certain things they like or dislike in games and should be able to state them without someone dis-respecting them.

First I have no other way of seeing you in person nor do I want to, so this is our means of communicating. Second, I’m not as young and naive as you think. And third today’s games are no different than good books or blockbuster movies providing censorship doesn’t get tossed in the bag. if you look back on the sixties television shows, the bedroom had two twin beds for the husband and wife, the word virginal and the other part was non-existing and the belly button was considered devilish and had to be hidden. What I’m saying is, with all the sh it that goes on in the world, that should be taking care of, like the ozone layer, possible nuclear strikes, and over populated countries starving. People are worried about words used in video games that are an every day occurrence. And I’m not targeting you pcpreacher I’m targeting the way you think. And that goes for every mother fu#ker that try to alter my way of reality.

carlbme
11-24-2002, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK


First I have no other way of seeing you in person nor do I want to, so this is our means of communicating. Second, I’m not as young and naive as you think. And third today’s games are no different than good books or blockbuster movies providing censorship doesn’t get tossed in the bag. if you look back on the sixties television shows, the bedroom had two twin beds for the husband and wife, the word virginal and the other part was non-existing and the belly button was considered devilish and had to be hidden. What I’m saying is, with all the sh it that goes on in the world, that should be taking care of, like the ozone layer, possible nuclear strikes, and over populated countries starving. People are worried about words used in video games that are an every day occurrence. And I’m not targeting you pcpreacher I’m targeting the way you think. And that goes for every mother fu#ker that try to alter my way of reality.

I don't think that he was trying to alter your way of reality, but instead trying to show why he believes that such language shouldn't be used.

FuNkY mOnK
11-24-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by carlbme


I don't think that he was trying to alter your way of reality, but instead trying to show why he believes that such language shouldn't be used.

Tom Clancy introduces Sam Fisher a splinter cell, now, who would believe his role to intervene terrorism if he would say, gosh golly I’m out of bullets? Or, sorry I have to do something very wrong to you sir even though it isn’t our nature as humans, so here’s the butt of my gun over your head, ouch, sorry that must have hurt. You see what I’m getting at? Unfortunately to have a good recipe there’s no sacrificing the intent. Very simple, If you find certain things offensive walk away.

Highlite23
11-24-2002, 09:48 AM
Just a little warning...as much as i don't feel this is a place to discuss religion, i understand the question asked by PCpreacher.

So please keep the discussions intelagent and non-judgemental or the thread will be closed.

Your all intelagent human beings, this is a valid discussion, see if you can condust yourselves acordinglly.


Personally PCpreacher, I do understand what you are saying, but regardless of my personal religious beliefs this is a freedom of choice for each individual. If you feel offended or uncomfortable with the games use of language or anything else for that matter, you do have the choice not to purchase it.

This is a great topic, good luck with it members.;)

chili325
11-24-2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Slacker
Funky Monk........I have one word!...............Amen ......... . I agree Sry to say this...but i hav to agree. I never went to church and for some reason, i cant understand why people support this "franchise" which claims to support you. Ive honestly tried to believe, but i dont understand. People give so much money to church and frankly, if there is a god, i doubt he's seen a cent of it.

FuNkY mOnK
11-24-2002, 11:49 AM
What’s ironic, if I keep answering to this thread my post will have reached 666 very soon, this will not go over very well for pcpreacher. :eek:

Marc_01
11-24-2002, 12:31 PM
You guys really need to think here. Why in the world would God want money? Money is for the church, and the people who give this money want to keep something alive and progressing that they would die for. I guess you have some kind of preconceived notion that the church takes the money and runs to buy what ever their hearts desires?

Funky Monk, you continue to amaze me with your comments. Practice what you are preaching: "Very simple, If you find certain things offensive walk away." It is clear you are ****ed off and offended by religion. In this case Christianity. You could have read PcPearchers post and "walked away". But you decided to slander him and discredit his concern. Once again, pathetic.

FuNkY mOnK
11-24-2002, 03:01 PM
That is true if he were just talking about religion, but, as he brought up splinter cell, now the subject is related to gaming which is why I’m here.and another thing, pcpreacher still hasn't said what was so bad in the game? Hell if i know?

thunderkiss2k1
11-24-2002, 06:41 PM
To the starter of this thread: What did you expect? You are posting to a forum full of TEENAGERS. They think that by cracking on your beliefs that they are "cool" or something. And for the one or two folks who've replied to this thread that MIGHT be above the age of eighteen: you should respect the beliefs of others. Peace.

Woocifer
11-24-2002, 06:47 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen I give you (this thread) the last 30,000 years of human nature.

You all understand that you are re-enacting everything you are arguing about. One side believes in something while the other is fed up and angry about their world being affected by it. Sounds like the same sad paradigm that constantly happens over and over through time.

Here's something to remember... no one has proof on anything and there are no records about any of this being solid or real. God or not, it isn't worth arguing unless there is a right answer, otherwise we will all take flying lessons soon...understand?

You might as well be arguing about the 3 little pigs... there isn't ANY proof that they ever existed or never existed so lets argue about them now too.

"The king said to the priest: You keep them stupid, and I'll keep them poor" .... take that into consideration the next time you look up to anything.

I hope a videogame comes out in which you torture and destroy God, and in the last level, the last boss, it is revealed that God is just some normal guy on Earth trying to keep himself afloat above everyone else. Religion was created to keep the masses in order by men in power. There is no other explanation to the pias and the holy and those that are good and loving... Community and dedication are not inventions of holy power.

I'm sorry to be so cynical towards this idea but for all the stories and teachings and beliefs that I have witnessed I can't say that any one of them has given ANY single piece of evidence or shred of information that has made me pause and think maybe they are on to something. Instead I've seen the holes of an idea that is entirely based on faith... believe what you wish, I really don't care what you believe in as long as it leaves me or my life's path out of the way. But when you want to tackle a public issue like entertainment, information or participation then no, I will not stand by and listen to someone grind their teeth over an issue that they would like to see changed due to THEIR own faith in something that has been debatable for tens of thousands of years.

There are two major forces in my life that I more than appreciate and could care less if they were pre-fabricated. Those two forces are energy and gravity. They exist, don't care what I think, and I have no say in the matter but I certainly am thankful that they do.

And think about it... if the game is somewhat blasphemous in its usage of the 'Lord's name in vain then it was made by those who don't care, probably aren't that religious and will be judged by 'God' anyway... so why be so uptight about it?

If it bothers people that much then I would think that perhaps they should try to avoid a lot of things out in public because, and it is not my personal pleasure to say this, most people out there just don't care because they gave up on the idea of a God a long time ago when it seemed the 'He' gave up on them.

If I were Him/Her/It...I know I would've.

FuNkY mOnK
11-25-2002, 06:34 AM
Imagine how messed up religion has gotten when you have Jim baker Tammy fae baker and jimmy swagger leading the way to the house of the whor.... ur.... lord. And the poor soles who contribute to this franchise forgave them, better yet how about that other nut, that if they didn’t reach a million dollars by midnight he would commit suicide. This is the circle of jerks and their unfortunate followers that are telling the rest what’s right and what’s wrong. But the truth is and matters all along , do what the heart tells you, not some jackass with a book. i must be the anti-christ, my post just hit 666.:eek:

Hugh_Jass
11-25-2002, 12:28 PM
I understand what you're saying PCPreacher. Swearing and other offensive language (such as racial slurs) permeate our culture.

You've basically got two choices:

1) Insulate yourself from it and become Amish.

2) Live amongst it. You don't have to like it or adopt it into your own vocabulary.

I agree that this game could have been made without swearing. Incredibly good movies were made long before swearing in the cinema became common. Splinter Cell without swearing would have been just as fun and nobody would notice the difference.

fowlowl
11-25-2002, 04:33 PM
I was once a very religious kid and strong believer, became an atheist after starting college, and now am in the middle trying to decide which side to belong to.

When you're in the middle, threads like this no longer offend you. And you begin to notice people like pcpreacher and funky monk all around you. And nobody should try to instigate this very sensitive issue, notice what happened in Nigeria (Miss World riots).

The use of "God" in Splinter Cell is used because it really adds a feeling of realism to the game. ubisoft developers arent blasphemous, they just realize that Fisher is on a mission to stop terrorism not promote censureship. pcpreacher, Jesus spoke in parables because he wanted to speak to the people who wanted to listen while allowing the people who didnt want to listen to ignore the message by its complex subtleness.

When I was very religious, I always thought that people like funky monk were atheist and therefore apathetic because they had nothing to believe. But I soon realized how angry they are and how much they hate religion. And I am beginning to learn why they feel that way--the evil hypocrasy of some religious people, the mishandling of religion to use it as a tool of control and manipulation. But I still havent learned why's they're so afraid of the topic.

Neither side should worry. Religious people have eternal life to fall back on, and "nonbelievers" should feel reassured that they lived out their lives instead of wasting it.

My opinion: religion should be a personal matter, if someone doesnt want religion that's their choice. Only preach to those that want or need religion in their life. And "nonbelievers" shouldnt be made to feel as if they're inferior or hell-bound. Dont worry there will always be plenty of pleasures and "sin" available regardless of who wants to take them away.

Religion is the hope that there is more to life than this world. If there's an after-life/God or not, nothing we do or nothing we believe will change the fact that there is one or not.

Snoopy7548
11-25-2002, 05:13 PM
i was never a religious kid. especially since i always had to go to CCD, that kinda made me hate my religion. cause i was forced to go to church and everything. and i think that if i wanted to worship god, i could just do it in my house, and there wasnt a need to go to church. i only go to church once a year, on christmas. lol. if my mom didnt make us go, i wouldnt. i dont really believe in any religion, cause you shouldnt be told what to do or what not to do. and i dont really care about going to hell when i die, lol. because if you sin, then you go to hell, but like everyone has sinned at least once in their life, so everyones going there. ha.

Solid Cell
11-25-2002, 05:51 PM
Question:

Why is it that some of you around here want to be able to voice your own opinions, but when someone has one that is different than yours, you bite their head off. Why do you do that?

PCPreacher, you're just gonna have to accept it. That's just the way it is around here these days. :confused:** If you think about it, it isn't used that much. I have only heard it once or twice.

**Note being a jerk, just stating a fact

Snoopy7548
11-25-2002, 06:08 PM
i dont yell at people for voicing their opinions

QCwolf
11-25-2002, 07:16 PM
I agree with PCPreacher. I love Splinter Cell, but really wish they didn't have to take the Lord's name in vain. I've never said GD in my life and can't see myself ever being mad or ticked off enough to say it.

I believe in God and I only go to church about once per month. For those of you who suggest there is no proof that he exists...I beg to differ. There is proof all around you.

greggp666
11-25-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by QCwolf
For those of you who suggest there is no proof that he exists...I beg to differ. There is proof all around you.

there is no god. its a made up thing to make all the weak minded sheep followers feel better about them self. tell me how was the earth made in 6 days? are you really kiddling me man did not come from ape or related family? so the universe did not start with the big bang? why does this made up person need money?

i live in the world of science not the make belive man in the sky.well thats how i feel about it.

fowlowl
11-26-2002, 01:23 AM
hey, greggp666. People voicing their opinion is fine with me, but people voicing ignorance is where I draw the line.

First I believe in evolution or at least understand it well. And I study Ecology and Biology, and you know little about the Big Bang theory or science. The universe is a constant 4 degrees Celsius. And the Big Bang theory suggests that, from one source, energy and matter dissipated to form the universe. But if the energy and matter came from one source, there should be a temperature gradient with a increase towards the scource of the Big Bang. To make up for this, scientist say there must be at least four dimensions. The world I know works on only three. We cant disprove this because there is no evidence against it.

How can you say there is no God, when there is no scientific evidence to refute his existince. Science doesnt work by proving things, greg. It's the opposite, theories are rejected once they're contradicted. And if a theory stands at all attempts to refute it, it becomes accepted like the THEORY of gravity.

So when you say there is no God, that's ONLY an unsupported opinion. I can respect your opinion, so respect the faith (OPINIONS) of those who believe in God.

y2kash_14
11-26-2002, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by Snoopy7548
because if you sin, then you go to hell, but like everyone has sinned at least once in their life, so everyones going there. ha.

lol, thats wrong dude......He knows that everyone has sinned (as in "He" i mean God). So like when we ask for repentance, then we are clean of our sins. And we can start on a clean slate. The way you put it, its just crazy, lol


Forums are no place to talk about Religion, only bad can come out of it.....There may be people who are of different religion or even worse, those who don't belong to any religion at all. If i was a MOD i would close this one........

SaintK
11-26-2002, 02:41 AM
Not many people study or even know what theology is. Vast majority of people that I've encountered who are atheists, who also have claimed to read the Bible etc, don't really know how to interpret it correctly. And yes, there is a correct way to interpret the Bible and people actually devote their lives studying some small words(literally).

While PCPreacher's comments are valid, I do agree that it adds to the realism of Sam being a veteran special op agent. I guess it's all the media conditioning us to accept that's what these guys are like.

FuNkY mOnK
11-26-2002, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by fowlowl
hey, greggp666. People voicing their opinion is fine with me, but people voicing ignorance is where I draw the line.

First I believe in evolution or at least understand it well. And I study Ecology and Biology, and you know little about the Big Bang theory or science. The universe is a constant 4 degrees Celsius. And the Big Bang theory suggests that, from one source, energy and matter dissipated to form the universe. But if the energy and matter came from one source, there should be a temperature gradient with a increase towards the scource of the Big Bang. To make up for this, scientist say there must be at least four dimensions. The world I know works on only three. We cant disprove this because there is no evidence against it.

How can you say there is no God, when there is no scientific evidence to refute his existince. Science doesnt work by proving things, greg. It's the opposite, theories are rejected once they're contradicted. And if a theory stands at all attempts to refute it, it becomes accepted like the THEORY of gravity.

So when you say there is no God, that's ONLY an unsupported opinion. I can respect your opinion, so respect the faith (OPINIONS) of those who believe in God.
Bill Nye is that you?

BDHES
11-26-2002, 10:23 AM
Anyone else besides me find it a bit ironic and amusing that the "Monk", no matter how "funky" he is, is berating religion?

Just a brief pause that refreshes...LOL

Vaya Con Dios...(Go with God)

BDHES
:D

samslophead
11-26-2002, 11:04 AM
SIZE=1]The universe is a constant 4 degrees Celsius. And the Big Bang theory suggests that, from one source, energy and matter dissipated to form the universe. But if the energy and matter came from one source, there should be a temperature gradient with a increase towards the scource of the Big Bang. To make up for this, scientist say there must be at least four dimensions. The world I know works on only three. We cant disprove this because there is no evidence against it.[/SIZE]

That was interesting. What were you saying about that?

fowlowl
11-26-2002, 12:52 PM
That basically means that in order to believe the Big Bang Theory(the universe was created by itself from this immense explosion) you have to believe that there are at least four dimensions which act upon matter.

I have only experienced three of these dimensions; cant wait till I experience the fourth, fifth, and sixth dimension.

Also, in physics, chemistry, and biology you see all kinds of constants which describe physical properties such as gravity which on earth is 9.8m/s^2. In order for life to exist, there must be a very unique set of these constants. And the only reason we're here today, is that luckily all the physical constants on earth support life. It's basically impossible for all the constants to support life if the constants are a direct result of the Big Bang. So scientist claim that not only life but also the universe must be evolving.

I find these a little hard to believe. So in my opinion the Big Bang theory is a poor attempt to explain why we're all here.

samslophead
11-26-2002, 01:42 PM
hmmm.......interesting

Kdogg
11-26-2002, 02:00 PM
Well since we are talking about Science and video games here......

Anyone ever heard of entropy( physics symbol---->S) entropy is described basically best in the chaos theory(That if a butterfly flaps its wings in China it affects the wind storms in North America, etc.) What it basically says is that choas begats chaos......chaos can never begat order. Once you set something in motion(chaotic motion) it will never create anything of order.

Prime example. Take a watch and put it ina paper bag. Next take a hammer and smash the watch to smithereens. Now if the "conditions" are write as i nthe evolutional theory as well as the Big Bang theory, you will be able to shake it back together. I hope you got plenty of...hehe...time, cause it aint going to happen.

As far as video games, Kudos to you PcPreacher. It takes guts to post something like that especially anything that relates to a religious topic in a place like this. America is no longer a Christian nation(or the other countries for that) In America(and others)Christianity is in the minority now next to humanism and self-proclaimed faiths. All your post did was prove the chaos theory to a tee.... because of things that happened in the past, they are still chaotic.

Regardless of what others think, keep posting. I too will receive flack for this post, but you know what that's good. At least someone is reading the posts and they can't say that they never knew.

To everyone else who feels that religion is a crutch or churches are theives or the priests are perverts, you have the right to your opinion. And that is what it is an opinion. Just as my faith as well as PcPreists faith is our opinion. We have come under attack for quite some time now because of what we believe, but no matter what you say or do, you can't refute what GOD has done for me and my family as well as others I know in my life. The money that we give goes to more uses than lining some as some of you put it "greedy" individuals. Where do you think most of the philanthropy and support comes from......churches....(i.e. Salvation Army, most of the third world country relief, and those you would never have though of, etc) To you it looks like a bunch of hogwash because you don't see why I believe this way, but to me, I am blessed every step of the way. When you look death in its face, who will 95% of you cry out to. I already know the answer to that one..... Be serious with yourself.

PcPreacher was not flaming anyone or anything. He was stating his opinion in a respectable manner. And he was torched for it.

As much as I have wanted to play this game, I may have to re-evaluate this a little further.

My pep-rally/2 cents/opinion/belief/post is over so if you want to torch anyone. Here I am, light me up. I am open to personal attack.......

Good-day to you all....

FuNkY mOnK
11-26-2002, 02:03 PM
I know you guys will think I’m crazy…so what. Here’s what I think, the world we live in with all this technology, material, space exploration, and what we know from the past and well into the future, existed once before. If you sit back and think, and take the sci-fi Jurassic park for instance, they use dna from a mosquito that has bitten some sort of dinosaur and reproduced it, far fetched? I think not. Remember that special where they discovered the wooly mammoth, well, they will use its dna on elephants. And what about mars our twin planet at one time? How there are talks to colonize one day on mars, see the connection. I strongly believe that all this including us typing on xbox addict existed in one form or another, and that at one point, in our case global warming or all the above, will play a part in the recycle process. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Dr_J
11-26-2002, 03:07 PM
Boobs

evil xbox king
11-26-2002, 05:51 PM
Sure....

Unreal
11-26-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK
Listen up alter boy, if there’s any place that needs your attention it’s the god damn perverts that call themselves priest who use god as there camouflage to prey among young kids. Religion is poison you can keep it. I’ll curse all I want say any motherfuc%ing thing I want to say, because when it comes down to doing the right thing, that’s what matters. Now shut the fu#k up,and play some games you fuc$king freak.
:D

Slacker
11-26-2002, 08:40 PM
I was fine with his opinion until he tried to sell it, by posting links to religious sources , to me thats just low,

as far as the big bang theory ,well they just proved Einstiens theroy of relativity ( a huge part of the big bang theory) wrong, Light doesn't travel at a constant, and Quantum physics has proven extra dimensions so it's all up for grabs now, We knew how everything worked 10,000 years ago, or the first civilization did , Sumeria , they wrote that the moon was created by another planet hitting the earth and created the moon, just this month 10,000 years later scientists have proven this, the sumerians also knew what all the planets looked like, and there shapes, and described the earth from space, 10,000 years ago,

So we knew once , and it took along time to get it back we would of been alot further in Natural healing, science ect... if Rome hadn't dominated murdered and forced Christianlty on the native europeans and told them there religion was the "devil" and so on, it is any wonder that the Dark ages come right when all three Monothiestic relgions come to bieng (Christianity,Islam<Judaism) so basically we stepped back to the stone age , and didn't come out of it until the middle ages, when science took root again,

when it comes down to relgion, its just a set of Laws , to follow basically relgion became churchianity and became corrupted , Jesus was against the Jewish establishment , He didn't beleive racism that plauges Judasim , like don't touch a goy( racist term used by jews even today it means Beast and is applied to Non-jews) because they are unclean, so jesus said screw that, and he talked and touched everyone, and said no the racist ideology of the time from his religion , and rebeled agaisnt it, and the money hungry Jewish preists conspired with the romans to have him killed,

for Old jewish racist beliefs read the talmud , the Likud party that runs Isreal, (isreal is an all jewish country) beleives all of the racist remarks in the talmud and believes that White jews are true jews and bieng jewish is a Race , its crazy, and they are so well protected by our government,,,,,,because our government is over run with Racist-religious fantatics ....

y2kash_14
11-26-2002, 09:19 PM
Stiny get me my Danish!

steveo_wrx
11-26-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK


Tom Clancy introduces Sam Fisher a splinter cell, now, who would believe his role to intervene terrorism if he would say, gosh golly I’m out of bullets? Or, sorry I have to do something very wrong to you sir even though it isn’t our nature as humans, so here’s the butt of my gun over your head, ouch, sorry that must have hurt. You see what I’m getting at? Unfortunately to have a good recipe there’s no sacrificing the intent. Very simple, If you find certain things offensive walk away.

Yes, that is the essence of it.

LOL, PcPreacher. You are not exactly preaching to the choir here, and some were harsh in responding to your post. However, I have to agree with Funky Monk, that Sam's dialog and character are entirely in keeping with what is realistic and the game would be poorer if such were not the case. At least it's a game, and you don't have to play it if you're offended by it. I spent 3 yrs. in the US Army, where the air was blue with profantity. You'd better believe that was reality and that's how soldiers talk. And nobody could just walk away from that if they didn't like it. So consider yourself fortunate that you are in a position to avoid what is distasteful to you - such as console games.

fowlowl
11-27-2002, 12:26 AM
Okay, I'm just curious. Who believes in an after-life and who does not? You dont necessarily have to believe in an all-mighty God or follow a particular religion to believe in an after-life. If you believe in an after-life, what do you think it will be like?

Be civil, only express your opinions.

evil xbox king
11-27-2002, 02:28 AM
I believe that- after we die - we are born again. Wether we are born as a dog, lizard or human is all up to chance.

I hope that we are ghosts when we die because I'd love to scare the **** out of people for eternity!



Originally posted by y2kash_14
Stiny get me my Danish!

Was there any point to that post?

PcPreacher
11-27-2002, 02:30 AM
First of all a response to slacker. I put that link on here for people who are curious why I started this thread to begin with. If it offends you don't click on the link. I just put it there for people who might want to know where i'm coming from. secondly you said i'm peddling religion, websters dictionary defines peddling as follows: To travel about selling. Last I checked I have not received any checks in my mail box from starting this thread. The link that I put up is a FREE audio tape you can listen to FREE no charge they don't make you pay anything so peddling is wrong word. To everyone else: I can understand some peoples views on religion and people in the media Bakers, Swaggert, Priests etc. All I can say is they have to answer to God for mis-representing who He is and what He teaches. Don't judge God on what some money hungry phonies who are out to make a buck do. Actually the Bible warns to watch out for people who use the Gospel for Gain, They will be judged for it. I use to let that stop me to when I saw these people on tv but then I looked into it my self. Thats the advise I have find out for yourself.

evil xbox king
11-27-2002, 03:10 AM
Just a thought...one of the constants throughout nearly all the religions is that there is a Satan. Is satan the real god then?

FuNkY mOnK
11-27-2002, 06:02 AM
What I think is the moment you die or the moment of impact to the cause of death at that instant is what you’ve earned your entire life. Meaning the final image you produced in your mind will determine {whether you like it or not} what you achieved in life. putting you truly at peace if be it.

evil xbox king
11-28-2002, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK
What I think is the moment you die or the moment of impact to the cause of death at that instant is what you’ve earned your entire life. Meaning the final image you produced in your mind will determine {whether you like it or not} what you achieved in life. putting you truly at peace if be it.

Kind of like a ratings system?

Snoopy7548
11-28-2002, 07:40 AM
i just realized that i can see nc-17 movies. woot! lol

shrew king
11-29-2002, 02:32 AM
i honestly think nothing is going to happen after i die, all we are are organisms, we dont harness any powers, we are just living breathing organisms. depressing i guess, depends on how you look at it. when you boil it all down, we are only here for the entirety of our life then we are no more. no soul. no after life. no chance of return. just dead.

Chr0nik
11-29-2002, 07:36 AM
Hmmmm, what has god given us lately?

My list:

War
Famine
Disease
Poverty
Suffering


My view is to believe in yourself. Do good things because you want to and because it makes you feel good, not because GOD says you have to or because some bozo priest lets you know that if you don't you will rott in hell. I am a very opened minded person, but when it comes to religion, there is not place for it in my books.

PCPreacher, if something like this bothers you, perhaps you should be playing Mario Sunshine and not a game who's whole premise is based around taking out terrorists organizations.

EHWfedPres
11-29-2002, 12:51 PM
more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason in the history of the world...why does that not bother you?

shrew king
11-29-2002, 02:26 PM
Chronik, you just said what god has given us then you go off saying you dont believe in him....:confused:

famine is happening because of over-population of the planet, certain areas of the earth cannot produce enough food to feed the one who need it. the earth's carrying capacity is near the brim and we are seeing the effects of it in Africa, the Middle East, and all over the world.

evil xbox king
11-29-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by shrew king
Chronik, you just said what god has given us then you go off saying you dont believe in him....:confused:

famine is happening because of over-population of the planet, certain areas of the earth cannot produce enough food to feed the one who need it. the earth's carrying capacity is near the brim and we are seeing the effects of it in Africa, the Middle East, and all over the world.

The western world throws out enough food scraps to feed the whole of the planet.

madhoops
11-29-2002, 06:49 PM
it's pretty stupid when someone can't even express their opinion about a game without a bunch of losers getting on and talking bad about him. i myself agree with pcpreacher or whatever his name is, i hate all the cussing they throw in games. it adds nothing and i think it takes away from the game. i know many people who haven't gotten games cus of all the cursing. and, you guys are talking about religions killing all these people. how many religions are actually like that. just because a few groups of hostile muslim terrorists attack people you can't blame that on all religions. just cus you don't believe in anything don't make fun of others who do stand for something!

evil xbox king
11-29-2002, 07:14 PM
Just because we don't agree with PcPreacher, doesn't mean we don't believe in something. I myself think that it adds to the realism of Splinter Cell. I didn't enjoy the swearing in DeathRow though, as it wasn't needed- unlike Splinter Cell.

madhoops
11-29-2002, 07:26 PM
you're entitled to your own opinion, i just don't think it's fair to not let him have his own opinion too. i wasn't really talking to you about not living for anything in life, mainly those guys talking about life all being about living for your own pleasure.

EHWfedPres
11-29-2002, 07:35 PM
The swearing in Deathrow adds more realism to the game...please tell me that you would not hear some of those words in a game where you try and kill the other players...people in sports curse all the time, but they dont care...they care more about shoe advertisments and their fat ƒucking paycheck.

Anyway, the day when a starving person shows up at my front door, then ill give them food scraps...but they are not here to eat them are they? So why worry about it?

fowlowl
11-29-2002, 11:22 PM
This thread is depressing

OUberLord
11-30-2002, 12:46 AM
I find the hypocrasy in this thread quite funny. People state how everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and yet they do on to provide "proof" why their opinion is "right" and anyone else is "wrong"

As for the scientific facts, whos to say theres not a 4th dimension? There are many things man cannot explain scientifically, but there were even more things man couldnt explian back in the 1700s, so whos to say mnakind has reached the pinnacle of knowledge and knows everything?

As for religeon, I find it funny that even though all religion branched off of the same religion, everyone is sure that their religion is right. Logical thought would assume that either A) There is only one correct religion or B) Religion is simply a way to live your life. Nothing more, nothing less.

All the praying, all the donations to the church, all the church time in the world won't have God save you when your car loses control, or an armed robber shoots you. However, if you do happen to donate to the needy, and follow the 10 commandments, chances are you are leading a good life, and I think that is the point of religion.

Myself, I am an amalgamation of a few beliefs. I was baptised Catholic, but left the flock after I realized that the line between the actions taken inside a Catholic church and the definition of a cult is a thin line. I know this probably is ****ing someone off, but its my belief, ask me and ill explain it.

Athieism, Wicca, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam all have a basic theme, live a good life. Take it at face value.

fowlowl
11-30-2002, 03:04 AM
I think Microsoft had it right when they said, "Life is short, play more video games."

evil xbox king
11-30-2002, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by fowlowl
I think Microsoft had it right when they said, "Life is short, play more video games."

LOL

evil xbox king
11-30-2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by EHWfedPres
The swearing in Deathrow adds more realism to the game...please tell me that you would not hear some of those words in a game where you try and kill the other players...people in sports curse all the time, but they dont care...they care more about shoe advertisments and their fat ƒucking paycheck.


True, but I believe that the sound could've been used better in something like a commentary area. Instead of the one word "Deathrow" as the full commentary, it would've been nice to hear play-by-play action- especially when a player is having a fight. It could've been so much better implimented. What the teams have to say at the start of the matches (i.e. I'm going to send you to hell, you motherf*cker!) shouldn't have been in the game to start with. It adds no realism whatsoever, and it severely detracts from the game IMO.

madhoops
11-30-2002, 04:09 PM
all i have to say is i'm glad i have something more than this life to look forward to.

shrew king
11-30-2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by OUberLord
However, if you do happen to donate to the needy, and follow the 10 commandments, chances are you are leading a good life, and I think that is the point of religion.


a good life in who's eyes? if your religious, then youre trying to impress god, if your not, then why should i care about anything that has been set into our minds as right or wrong?

madhoops
11-30-2002, 04:41 PM
no, in my religion (Christianity) it's not about trying to impress God, it's about accepting his free gift of salvation-sure, i try to live a good life cuz that's what he'd want me to do, but i can't lose my salvation and assurance of heaven.

dronezero
11-30-2002, 10:22 PM
To make up for this, scientist say there must be at least four dimensions. The world I know works on only three.
The fourth dimension is time. If you live in a universe without time perhaps we are living on different worlds.


Also, in physics, chemistry, and biology you see all kinds of constants which describe physical properties such as gravity which on earth is 9.8m/s^2. In order for life to exist, there must be a very unique set of these constants. And the only reason we're here today, is that luckily all the physical constants on earth support life. It's basically impossible for all the constants to support life if the constants are a direct result of the Big Bang. So scientist claim that not only life but also the universe must be evolving.
You are building strw men here. Your intial premis that there must be a unique set of constants is flawed.


Anyone ever heard of entropy( physics symbol---->S) entropy is described basically best in the chaos theory(That if a butterfly flaps its wings in China it affects the wind storms in North America, etc.) What it basically says is that choas begats chaos......chaos can never begat order. Once you set something in motion(chaotic motion) it will never create anything of order.
This is wrong. Entropy can decrease as long as the overall entropy in the universe does not decrease. A common example of this is the freezeing of water. As water freezes it entropy decreases yet, but it release heat in this process, which increases the entropy of the universe more than the water freezing decreases it.





well they just proved Einstiens theroy of relativity ( a huge part of the big bang theory) wrong, Light doesn't travel at a constant
Care to provide a link?

fowlowl
12-01-2002, 02:36 AM
Dronezero, you are a f*cking idiot. Let me explain why.

1.quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make up for this, scientist say there must be at least four dimensions. The world I know works on only three.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was talking about dimensions in space. Such as length, width, and height. Dont pull this...time is the fourth dimension because I read it off the box of Blinx the Timesweeper...bullsh*t on me.

2.
You didnt even explain why my initial premise is flawed. You dont see life on the sun because it's too hot. You dont see life on Mars because it's too dry. If the conditions arent met, life cannot exist. For example if the force of attraction between an electron and proton was significantly small, there would be no life. Just electrons and protons everywhere. And the chance for all the physical principles to work out to support life is infinitessimal.

3.
You're right about entropy, but I dont think that guy was referring to the spontaneous formation of ice when he was talking about chaotic motion.

4.
Einstein said some pretty f*cked up things which are brilliant but are very difficult to understand or even believe. Yet all his theories make more sense than your stupid post.

xb_jim
12-01-2002, 07:01 AM
My opinion: religion should be a personal matter, if someone doesnt want religion that's their choice. Only preach to those that want or need religion in their life. And "nonbelievers" shouldnt be made to feel as if they're inferior or hell-bound.

i agree with that.

if you dont like it, dont get into it.. dont start ****.

if you love it, dont push it on others.. agian dont start ****.

just leave it alone and move on. if its not something you care for.. why put your precious time into it?
--------

if everyone just did their own thing and wasnt so into "im right, your wrong".. this world would be a greater place.

people think their religion is BETTER than others.
people think their race is BETTER than others.
people think their property/country/posessions are BETTER than others.
people think their "cause" is BETTER than others.
some think their lives are more important than others (..BETTER?!).

but no matter what, some people will always think these ways.. so your just gonna have to live with it.

now is using the word god damn in a video game wrong? well some times i say it.. so i cant say its wrong.

i can see how it will offend some, theirs always someone who gets offended. if i said i eat beef.. some vegitarian would probally get all crazy.

but heres something to think about: what if they started using racial slurs in video games? how ya think that would go down?

dronezero
12-01-2002, 12:32 PM
fowlowl take it easy man. I am not trying to start something or get anyone upset. I am sorry if my post was offending in any way I am horrible at expressing myself in words.

1. Space and time are inseperably linked. Hence the term space-time.

2. The reason your premise is flawed because you asume that life can exist only in very specific conditions. This is not true. Life can form and thrive on planets where we could not. Just because you do not find life on Mars does not mean that it could not survive there with the current conditions. Your argument for no life without such essential componets as gravity is a valid one. If the mods don't care I will quote Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" (great book by the way) as he explains the principle much better than I could, as well as understanding much better.
"There are two versions okf the anthropic principle, the weak and the strong." The anthropic priciple states that We see the universe the way it is because we exist. "The weak anthropic principle states that in a universe that is large or infinite in space and/or time, the conditions necessary for the development of intelligent life will be met only in certain regions that are limited in space and time. The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satifies the conditions that are necessary for their existence. It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty."

3. I was trying to use the ice as an example that entropy can decrease. He was making a case that we could not exist by purely natural measures due to the fact that we are a highly organized set of atoms. I was simply trying to point out that that was not the case.

I hope this clears some things up.

OUberLord
12-01-2002, 03:11 PM
a good life in who's eyes? if your religious, then youre trying to impress god, if your not, then why should i care about anything that has been set into our minds as right or wrong? A good life in the general consensus's eyes. Im just saying every religion has their separate teachings, but every religion has generally the same basis of what is right and wrong. Even athiests know what right and wrong is.

Also, dronezero is right about all of his points, a basic physics class teaches what hes saying, space and time is inseperably linked as you cannot have one without the other.

QCwolf
12-01-2002, 10:47 PM
The afterlife is pretty simple...if you believe in God and repent of your sins before you die, you go to heaven, otherwise, eternal damnation.

Like someone said earlier, most religions have the same basic theme, just live a good moral life, don't murder, don't steal, adn treat others like you want to be treated.

fowlowl
12-02-2002, 01:35 AM
Dronezero, it was nothing personal. :-)

It's actually nice to see someone else take science as seriously as me. I should probably stop pretending like I'm Bill Nye. Sorry if I sounded too serious or angry at you.

OUberLord
12-02-2002, 10:21 AM
Well, on a topic so touchy as religion its easy to get your voices raised a bit, but I dont think anyone really thinks its personal atttacks. Everyone has valid points, and allthough sometimes it becomes a rather heated debate at least we can all discuss it in a civilized manner without resorting to threats :P

JJaX
12-02-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by QCwolf
The afterlife is pretty simple...if you believe in God and repent of your sins before you die, you go to heaven, otherwise, eternal damnation.

Like someone said earlier, most religions have the same basic theme, just live a good moral life, don't murder, don't steal, adn treat others like you want to be treated. \

Whos to judge whos sins are worse than others?

What if im forced to kill someone to save my family?

What if i live a humble life, give to charitys but dont believe in God?

Why do we go to limbo if were not baptized?

Im with Fowlowl on all this. Im more of a science person myself. Religon has to many contridictions and variables while science is fact.

I think religon was just interpretations of things they couldnt understand back in the day. Science has already proven that many "biblical" events were just natural disasters.

But than again, i like to pray sometimes in hopes that a greater being is listening and i do feel comfort.

Marc_01
12-02-2002, 12:22 PM
To me its entertaining and fun to discuss/debate with others about creation or evolution. I don't know about you guys but I find I hit a mental block. Its like hitting a wall in my mind when I really ponder and try my best to comprehend the world and universe in which we all live in.

For a living, I'm a artist/designer.. Currently web and print. I believe I have a gift of design, a gift to create eye pleasing geometry with my mind and hands. The more I look around, I see and believe this world was designed. The beauty of it is unbelievable at times. Its order and operation will try to be understood until the end of time. Because of its order/design/operation, I don't need to look into the face of god to believe, my environment and body is proof enough.

But one thing is for sure, we are here, we are living and breathing. Debating about the origin of life is fun but it isn't that important to me anymore. Its like discussing why I was alive yesterday, why does it matter? Its like standing under a tree discussing why that pine cone fell in that particular spot. Why spend so much time and effort in discussing what is already a truth.

I find my time spent with the people around me is better spent. I don't know about you guys, but the friends and family around me are far from perfect and have not been able to dodge the rain. I have people around me that want to commit suicide, have been raped, abused, cheated on, drug addicts, etc. And the bottom line is they needed help. My knowledge of 10 dimensional hyper space will not help. My words alone can't help someone either. I find in REAL LIFE experiences what works and brings peace to a heart is Christ. That's the bottom line.

Marc_01
12-02-2002, 01:03 PM
"Whos to judge whos sins are worse than others? "

God of course.

"What if im forced to kill someone to save my family?"

You used the correct meaning. Killing isn't the same as murder. It is made clear in the bible that killing to save your own life and for the good of others is not a sin. You are killing to protect yourself and family from someone who is trying to "murder" you.

What if i live a humble life, give to charitys but dont believe in God?

A christians view point is we can't work or pay our way to heaven. We believe Christ is our ticket and has paid our way. He is our link to God. Anything else is in vain.

"Why do we go to limbo if were not baptized? "

Glad you asked this. Because understanding and realizing church tradition and bible translation is key. By wresting a few scriptures to their own destruction the Roman Church has concocted an unbiblical place.

Christianity is supposed to be built on the book. The Bible is the final authority on all matters of faith and practice. There is no limbo or suggestion of a place like limbo in the Bible. There is no purgatory or place suggested like purgatory in the Bible. These are traditional teachings that the Roman church devised.

madhoops
12-02-2002, 01:30 PM
i agree totally with Marc_01. the Bible is the only place where all the answers to this life, and the after-life are found. also, the Bible, over the some two-thousand years that is has been around has never been disproved.

Dr_J
12-02-2002, 01:45 PM
I'm better than all of you!



I WORSHIP SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OUberLord
12-02-2002, 02:13 PM
Hell im not even religious and I agree with Marc_01.

I didnt know that neither the limbo place or purgatory wasnt in the Bible, learn something new everyday :)

dronezero
12-02-2002, 03:15 PM
"God of course"

Whose god? There are as many ideas of a god as there are people that believe in a god.

"You used the correct meaning. Killing isn't the same as murder. It is made clear in the bible that killing to save your own life and for the good of others is not a sin. You are killing to protect yourself and family from someone who is trying to 'murder' you."

I thought one of the ten commandments was "Thou shall not kill"

"Christianity is supposed to be built on the book. The Bible is the final authority on all matters of faith and practice. There is no limbo or suggestion of a place like limbo in the Bible. There is no purgatory or place suggested like purgatory in the Bible. These are traditional teachings that the Roman church devised."

What happens when the Bible contradicts itself. Then what is the final athourity?

OUberLord
12-02-2002, 03:34 PM
good points there too.

Marc_01
12-02-2002, 05:19 PM
Any questions you have, I will answer in regards to christian faith.

"Whose God?"

Christians believe in one God and to know God is to know Jesus. That simple really.

"I thought one of the ten commandments was "Thou shall not kill" "

The commandment "thou shall not kill" (Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:17), is better understood to mean "you shall not murder," most modern translations of the Bible rendered it this way. The commandments are short easy to remember guides to up hold to God. There is more to each commandment discussed in the bible. In this case, the detailed instruction of "thou shall not kill" and its meaning is discussed and made clear through out.

"What happens when the Bible contradicts itself. Then what is the final athourity?"

I would be happy to clear up any contridiction you are having trouble with.

XBOX MSSC
12-03-2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK
Listen up alter boy, if there’s any place that needs your attention it’s the god damn perverts that call themselves priest who use god as there camouflage to prey among young kids. Religion is poison you can keep it. I’ll curse all I want say any motherfuc%ing thing I want to say, because when it comes down to doing the right thing, that’s what matters. Now shut the fu#k up,and play some games you fuc$king freak.

you are so cool! :rolleyes:

FuNkY mOnK
12-03-2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by XBOX MSSC


you are so cool! :rolleyes:

huh...you to...want to cuddle?:rolleyes:

steveo_wrx
12-03-2002, 09:32 PM
LOL, this thread is now rated "One Star". :p Anyway, is it just me ? I have not particularly noticed any profanity in Splinter Cell. Guess I'm just too used to it and it goes in one ear and out the other. You can hear a lot worse just walking down the street.

OUberLord
12-03-2002, 11:16 PM
some people are just kind of touchy

FuNkY mOnK
12-04-2002, 09:05 AM
what gets me is how will they cope with this if they have xbox live, i'm still washing my ears.

RudedogX
12-04-2002, 09:07 AM
Alright, I will admit that I haven't read the last 5 pages, though I did read that first two and this last one. Anyway, I agree with Funky on this one. I have a serious issue with 'religion' requesting money. And not just a little, but at the very least 10% of your income. To some that is a lot of money. I do find that religion is wrought with Hypocrites in the fact that several many Christians will go do things terribly wrong and offensive, and in order to make themselves feel better will simply turn around and go to confession so that all their sins may be forgiven. So even in following the commandments, there are ways around them.

As for all religions in general, from what I have seen...I do believe that they are all over-sized cults that in the end have more power than any other cult since many children are raised with it from birth on. Also, religion has not just recently been the cause of wars. It has been the cause of wars since early egypt, and maybe even before that. Yet another reason to view religious fanatics as hypocrites (though shall not kill, yet killing is a crucial element to WAR).

Either way...though I can understand your argument in that God's name shouldn't be taken in vain, as it has been said...it would be censorship of the artist's vision. Sorry, I would rather have an honest interpretation than a watered down version of it.

This is not meant to be an attack on anyone, just my beliefs and my way of thinking.

SaintK
12-04-2002, 03:22 PM
First off, if Christians or other religious people didn't try to convert you or "peddle" religion as some of you have called it, that'd mean that they don't care whether you go to hell or not. People try to convert others because they actually care about what happens to you after you die. Of course this isn't the case for everyone, but generally this is why people try to convert people. I'll agree that there are limits to which they should do this though.

Secondly, those who think of science as being fact, it's not all that cut and dry as you think. Science can be very dogmatic and most people don't realize that. People blindly believe in evolution because that's what scientists tells you and what the culture says you should believe, otherwise you're a stupid creationist who think science is the tool of Satan. Question and rationalize your beliefs, not just believe something because that's what you should. This goes for the religious also, question your beliefs, and if your religion can't answer or stand up to your scrutnity, then maybe you should find out what's wrong with what you believe.

Also it bothers me when people call Christians stupid lemmings or sheep. It should be the other way around. The sheep and the lemmings are people who has no idea what they're doing, but do it anyways.

RudedogX
12-04-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by SaintK
First off, if Christians or other religious people didn't try to convert you or "peddle" religion as some of you have called it, that'd mean that they don't care whether you go to hell or not. People try to convert others because they actually care about what happens to you after you die. Of course this isn't the case for everyone, but generally this is why people try to convert people. I'll agree that there are limits to which they should do this though.
OK, first...this is still how they feel, for they're own feelings. So yes, as you just said, there are limits. I personally grew up in a fairly catholic atmosphere (going to CCD and the like). I tried to understand the religious aspects, and to a degree did, but then somewhere between volunteering and going to masses and hearing about how much money we should donate to the church, it all became cynical.


Secondly, those who think of science as being fact, it's not all that cut and dry as you think. Science can be very dogmatic and most people don't realize that. People blindly believe in evolution because that's what scientists tells you and what the culture says you should believe, otherwise you're a stupid creationist who think science is the tool of Satan. Question and rationalize your beliefs, not just believe something because that's what you should. This goes for the religious also, question your beliefs, and if your religion can't answer or stand up to your scrutnity, then maybe you should find out what's wrong with what you believe.
I'm glad you included religious as well as non-religious in that. I am without a doubt one that has scrutinized both sides and though I think logically more often than not, I still see both sides of the argument and can honestly say that I have been on both sides of the fence.


Also it bothers me when people call Christians stupid lemmings or sheep. It should be the other way around. The sheep and the lemmings are people who has no idea what they're doing, but do it anyways.
Also, who ever said that you have to go to church in order to believe in God, or Allah, or whatever you may want to call it. There are quite a few religions where they believe that nature is the temple. In this, many religions also find fault and would refer to these individuals as heritics. I'm sorry, just because someone has decided to 'stray' from his/hers religious beliefs and on to a differing thought pattern, does not mean that they are suddenly condemned to a world of hell. I do not consider myself religious in anyway, yet I know what I am doing in this world. Yet if I am to read your statement above, I would be considered one. And yet...I'm going against the grain. Something is in serious contradiction there.
:confused:

ShannonX
12-05-2002, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Dr_J
GOD DAMN IT!

Ooops! Did I hurt your feelings?


You need to chill out, my friend. They're just words. They don't hurt anyone.


Now, when people fly a plane into a building just because you're a different religion, then you have a problem.


they may just be words, but we do have some younger members here who dont need to hear that crap.

I'm itching for some action, so i'd recommend you dont say it again. Its uncalled for. If you cant figure out a better way to express yourself, go back to school or get a dictionary and upgrade your 3 word vocabulary to perhaps, 10 words.




and.. for all of you debating evolution now... you might want to read up on the latests "scientific" discovery. The planets (gas planets) that were believed to have taken millions of years to form, are now believed to have only taken several hundred years to form... If thats the case with those, what else are scientists totally wrong about... think about it.

Marc_01
12-05-2002, 10:41 AM
"Also, who ever said that you have to go to church in order to believe in God, or Allah, or whatever you may want to call it."

Either you believe or you don't. You are missing the point of church. Church is not meant to drag people in against their will. Church is a congregation of like minds coming together to give thanks and worship once or twice a week for about an hour. The church receives money from people willing to give, it never demands it. They take this money to help other countries, charities, to offer the message of Christ to more ears. You know this.


"There are quite a few religions where they believe that nature is the temple. In this, many religions also find fault and would refer to these individuals as heritics. I'm sorry, just because someone has decided to 'stray' from his/hers religious beliefs and on to a differing thought pattern, does not mean that they are suddenly condemned to a world of hell. I do not consider myself religious in anyway, yet I know what I am doing in this world. Yet if I am to read your statement above, I would be considered one. And yet...I'm going against the grain. Something is in serious contradiction there. "

After reading that.. i realize we are talking about two different atmospheres of church. Heretic is a person that has a different opinion that goes against the grain specifically towards the Roman Catholic Church. I prefer a Baptist church. Catholic Church is honored by me that it has Christ as a corner stone. But Christ him self warned us all about Leaders in the church that seem to fit the leaders in the Catholic Church.

I was actually read this last night: The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the Scriptures. So practice and obey whatever they say to you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach. They crush you with impossible religious demands and never lift a finger to help ease the burden. Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with scripture verses inside, and they wear extra long tassels on their robes. And how they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the most prominent seats in the synagogue!

How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignored the important things of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things. -Jesus Matthew 23.

Like always, Christ breaks it down and drops the knowledge. :)

fowlowl
12-05-2002, 11:14 AM
Opinions are all overrated.

Wow everyone in this forum needs to close their internet browser, log off their computer, turn on their Xbox, Gamecube, or Ps2 (No PC games because you might be tempted to write another post) and just relax. I hear Splinter Cell, Metroid, and Vice City are all great games.

Chaotic
12-05-2002, 11:25 AM
I agree, everyone just needs to play the game and stop worrying about it.

If it offends you simply return the game ;)

dronezero
12-05-2002, 11:48 AM
and.. for all of you debating evolution now... you might want to read up on the latests "scientific" discovery. The planets (gas planets) that were believed to have taken millions of years to form, are now believed to have only taken several hundred years to form... If thats the case with those, what else are scientists totally wrong about... think about it.

This has always been one of tip offs for me to know that most people don't even understand basic principles of science. Yes scientists CAN be wrong. In fact more times then not they probably are wrong. But that is what is so great about science. When a scientist finds out that he/she is wrong they will simply change their view. They will NOT try to hold on to ideas that have been shown to be untrue. This is what allows us to learn about the world around us. Without this the human race would make no progress. We would still be stuck in the trees of Africa running everytime we hear the roar of a lion. It is also true however that some do follow some theories dogmatically, but this is not the fault of science. Simply because people refuse to look around them and create their own conclusions about the world does not mean that science is flawed. Just like one can abuse anything one can also abuse science; trying to twist it into something to fit their agenda cough religion cough excuse me.

Plewis
12-05-2002, 12:54 PM
I wish I could have read this thread earlier. There are so many false beliefs about being a christian being said in here.

1. Giving money to the church doesn't get you any more into heaven.

2. I am protestant, not catholic. It was the Catholic guys who molested those boys. Everyone has a sin nature, and no one is perfect. Don't judge the entire church on a few priests actions.

3. It seems that Christianity is the only religion that stirs you guys. How come it's only Christianity that makes you guys angry? I've never heard anyone on these boards put down any other religion and I've been here a looooooong time. Maybe it's because it's real and there is a lot of war against it that we can't see.

Really, if many of you guys believe half of what you say you do, you need to go to a church and straighten some things out because it seems like you guys are just saying these things from limited knowledge. You need to see the argument from each side. Thank you.

PcPreacher
12-05-2002, 02:31 PM
Dronezero, you said science has been wrong most of the time and if they are, they just change their view. The Bible has never been wrong in fact there were many people through out history who set out to disprove the Bible and many of them became believers after looking into it. God said in the Bible those who diligently seek Me will find Me. If you really want the truth and Seek Him diligently then He will reveal the truth to you. If I showed you a very detailed painting and you asked me who painted it, and I told you nobody did. I took a few cans of paint a frame and paper put it in a garbage can and threw a pipe bomb in it and this is what came out. You would think i'm crazy yet people believe that is what happened with the earth solar system people etc. You would know for there to be a painting there has to be a painter. Nothing has ever been created from explosions. Whenever there is a tornado or hurricane etc. you see houses, cars or whatever is in the path destroyed. Have you ever seen a tornado go thru town and when it is over there are new houses everywhere. Sounds really foolish but people believe something as complex as the universe just happened. The Bible also has an answer for this way of thinking, it is found in Romans chapter 1 verses 18-32. here is just part of it but read it for yourself. It says For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world Gods invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and birds and fourfooted animals and crawling creatures. Sounds like people who believe in evolution to me. Read it yourself there is more. In the book of Job written over 4000 yrs. ago It talks about the earth being a circle which was believed at the time to be ridiculous, only those who read and believed the Bible believed the earth was round because God said it was, all others thought it has to be flat or we would fall off. There are so many things like that in the Bible that could never of been known unless God inspired every word of it.

Chaotic
12-05-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by PcPreacher
Dronezero, you said science has been wrong most of the time and if they are, they just change their view. The Bible has never been wrong in fact there were many people through out history who set out to disprove the Bible and many of them became believers after looking into it. God said in the Bible those who diligently seek Me will find Me. If you really want the truth and Seek Him diligently then He will reveal the truth to you. If I showed you a very detailed painting and you asked me who painted it, and I told you nobody did. I took a few cans of paint a frame and paper put it in a garbage can and threw a pipe bomb in it and this is what came out. You would think i'm crazy yet people believe that is what happened with the earth solar system people etc. You would know for there to be a painting there has to be a painter. Nothing has ever been created from explosions. Whenever there is a tornado or hurricane etc. you see houses, cars or whatever is in the path destroyed. Have you ever seen a tornado go thru town and when it is over there are new houses everywhere. Sounds really foolish but people believe something as complex as the universe just happened. The Bible also has an answer for this way of thinking, it is found in Romans chapter 1 verses 18-32. here is just part of it but read it for yourself. It says For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world Gods invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and birds and fourfooted animals and crawling creatures. Sounds like people who believe in evolution to me. Read it yourself there is more. In the book of Job written over 4000 yrs. ago It talks about the earth being a circle which was believed at the time to be ridiculous, only those who read and believed the Bible believed the earth was round because God said it was, all others thought it has to be flat or we would fall off. There are so many things like that in the Bible that could never of been known unless God inspired every word of it.

Woah!!!!

:eek:


:eek: Please step away from the bible :eek:

VeNoMiZA
12-05-2002, 03:29 PM
seriously step away from the bible and dont preach in here we dont need this.... specially me and chaotic dont need ur crap if u want to preach go to the church or whatever u call it this is X-BoX- A-Ddict not C-hurch A-dict. and if u believe whatever u believe dosnt make u right iethier, its ur opinion. theres somthing callled LOGIC and i use it. so go to hell lol

ShannonX
12-05-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by VeNoMiZA
seriously step away from the bible and dont preach in here we dont need this.... specially me and chaotic dont need ur crap if u want to preach go to the church or whatever u call it this is X-BoX- A-Ddict not C-hurch A-dict. and if u believe whatever u believe dosnt make u right iethier, its ur opinion. theres somthing callled LOGIC and i use it. so go to hell lol


ok, if he needs to shut up about the bible, you should just shut the hell up about evolution, EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!


If you dont want to see this, dont read the damn posts! This thread is closed.


and thats all besides the fact that this is just one big flame war...

ShannonX
12-06-2002, 04:51 PM
After having been NICELY asked to reopen this thread, i've decided to do so on the condition that you guys keep the insults to a minimum. Keep the discussion focused on the game, and what the original poster was discussing. If it starts getting bad again, i'll reclose it. Happy postings.

OUberLord
12-06-2002, 08:26 PM
Back on topic, does it say on the case of Splinter Cell that is has swearing? Im not sure if using God's name in vain counts as swearing, but I would think it probably should.

Plewis
12-07-2002, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by OUberLord
Back on topic, does it say on the case of Splinter Cell that is has swearing? Im not sure if using God's name in vain counts as swearing, but I would think it probably should.

seeing how it was bleeped out for many years I think it would. Although in the last few months I've heard it on regular TV! Well, one time on comedy central and the other time on Fox I think... it's worse than swearing in my book

But on the back it says

Teen__________
Blood and Gore
Violence

what a horrible world it is when using the Lord's name in vain is not considered swearing:(

evil xbox king
12-07-2002, 01:46 AM
not only is the use of God's name in vain not considered swearing anymore, there are some places that have banned Santa Claus, and anything to do with Christiantiy and Christmas, all because it may offend a minority of people!

OUberLord
12-07-2002, 07:16 AM
Politically Correctness gone berserk. On the swearing topic, Fox has allowed much more flexibility when it comes to its censorship, same as the radio. Remember when every near-bad word was bleeped out in songs? I think swearing is ok as long as something is shown before the show about it, kind of like the TV rating thing they do a little bit now, and how HBO does before every single movie.

PcPreacher
12-07-2002, 12:31 PM
Funky, did you forget to turn the volume up on your tv when you play splinter cell or don't you really have the game?

OUberLord
12-07-2002, 02:43 PM
Personally I think hes just trying to get this thread closed again.

PcPreacher, is is displayed in both text and voice, or just voice?

fowlowl
12-07-2002, 04:54 PM
In Splinter Cell, 'God' and 'Jesus' are used in both voice transmissions to Sam and as text in the upper left corner. Everything Lambert or Grimsdottir says to Sam is written as a message text too, so only when they say it does it appear as text. Also, some uses of 'God' are only as text found in the data sticks Sam picks up from computers.

I didnt really notice the use of 'God' and 'Jesus' in the game until I read this thread. Now I pay close attention everytime it appears in the game. I'm only on the third level (Azerbaijan) and I recall at least 5 uses. I'm sure their are plenty more I forgot about from the data sticks.

My contribution to this thread now is tallying all the uses. Keep in mind, I dont care if the usage offends you or if the people who are offended offends you, I'm counting.

FuNkY mOnK
12-07-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by PcPreacher
Funky, did you forget to turn the volume up on your tv when you play splinter cell or don't you really have the game?
yes i have the game, but frankly i have not heard anything, and thanks to this thread i have a personal problem with a mod.

ShannonX
12-07-2002, 07:24 PM
you can have all the problems you want to with me... you keep using the language that you used in your post that i edited, and what i said will happen.

PcPreacher
12-10-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by FuNkY mOnK

yes i have the game, but frankly i have not heard anything, and thanks to this thread i have a personal problem with a mod. Funky, It's not because of this thread it's because of the way you disrespect people and the language that you use. You have to learn to respect people and their opinions. Don't get so angry and out of control when someone doesn't see things your way because most people in life probably won't.

darianX
12-11-2002, 04:03 PM
Alright, I'm at the Chinese embassy and I've YET to hear this language. And yes the volume is turned up :p. Maybe I'm not hearing it, along with some others, because we are too involved in the game to worry about a word or two. I'd much rather be creepin' around in the dark strangling guards than listening to that windbag on the comm anyway. I'm amazed that someone who bought an "M" rated game is offended by language anyway...it's not possible they thought it was Mario or something. Everyone is always offended at something or other...I'm offended by every offensive person who is offended. So there. :eek:

FuNkY mOnK
12-11-2002, 05:11 PM
OK, i have the holy water in case something goes wrong. Now for the love of god, can someone please phrase on what was so offensive.

Kleen
12-11-2002, 05:40 PM
1) Sam says, "Good Lord!" after listening to Kong Feirong on the phone. Everyone knows that the Good Lord's true name is Jesus Harold Christ, so I don't see why the game is so offensive.

2) Religion is archaic. It was used to control the masses, the weak minded -- amazingly it still works. Weak minded doesn't necessarily mean dumb, just easily led -- prone to brainwashing.

3) Christianity is the closest religion to Americans, that's why it gets attacked here so much. Foreign religions are just that -- foreign to us. Most people feel bad about attacking them because it could be misconstrued as racism rather than disbelief. Christians shouldn't feel singled out -- most non-religious people think all religions are equally b.s. :D

4) It's almost 2003 -- we don't need magical tales to explain things anymore. Either we have a logical explanation of why something occurs, or we just don't know, YET.

5) I think we can all agree that living beings are seemingly organic machines. Is that because some being made us, or because we make machines in our own image so it just seems that way? If this world, the universe, with people and all living things is SO magnificient that only a superbeing could have created it, how did he come to be? How could a conscious being have no beginning and no end? How could something so magnificient come from a "void?" If "GOD" has no maker, why couldn't we even more easily have no maker, being lesser than "GOD?" Why can't the buck stop here, and who's to say that the ultimate "GOD", is there is such a thing, is our direct maker?

6) There are a lot of people who are not religious, but believe that there may be a "GOD," or higher being or whatever you want to call it. They just don't believe that this being is ANYTHING like the Christian "GOD" or any other "GOD" proposed on Earth. They are comfortable with knowing that they don't know the true answer.

7) I think the reason people are so hard on religion is...well, because it's silly! It's down right insulting to one's intelligence, actually. People are in awe that others actually buy into it. It's frustrating that you have to be polite to this person who is judging you and is "righteous" who you think is out of his or her mind. Sometimes it is tough to muzzle yourself when something seems so wrong. In the end, we'll all eventually pass and none of us will know the difference. I think. ;)

OUberLord
12-11-2002, 09:42 PM
Well, yeah, thats a good point too. If something M rated chances are good its gonna offend somebody somehow :p

Incubus
12-11-2002, 11:42 PM
This forum seems to be suffering an invasion of Ned Flanders types..

Why make such a fuss about a game using a phrase thats no where near as profane as what you hear in most movies these days..

Marc_01
12-12-2002, 12:29 AM
I know its hard to understand why using God's name in vain would get poeple bent out of shape. But you have to try to relate. Just image if a game used your name unfairly or in a way you didn't approve of, now multiply that by 100. You would feel it was unnessasary and could be left out of a game. Not a good example, but you get the point.

On the matter of exsitance:
One thing is for sure to the unbeliever and the believer. We will all die one day. Our body, mind and intelligence will never save us from this day. What will happen then? We will all find out soon enough.

fowlowl
12-12-2002, 02:12 AM
Why oh why was this thread reopened?? Ingorant people everywhere.

OUberLord
12-12-2002, 02:23 AM
....which you only contribute to by throwing this thread off topic.


One thing is for sure to the unbeliever and the believer. We will all die one day. Our body, mind and intelligence will never save us from this day. What will happen then? We will all find out soon enough. Good point there, I suppose upon death we will all know how it really is, but itd be nice to know beforehand.

FuNkY mOnK
12-12-2002, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by fowlowl
Why oh why was this thread reopened?? Ingorant people everywhere.
Congratulations on contributing to the thread.

ShannonX
12-12-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by fowlowl
Why oh why was this thread reopened?? Ingorant people everywhere.


because i was nicely asked to reopen it. And as long as it doesn't get nasty, you can discuss whatever you want to here.

Kleen
12-12-2002, 03:13 PM
I finished playing through SC again. I think it's Lambert who says, "Jesus!" when you find out about the Ark being a S.A.M. (suitcase bomb). It's when you check the laptop PC in Nikoladze's office.

They both say "Good Lord!" after lazer mic'ing Kong Feirong in Myanmar-Chinese Embassy. It's right before Feirong gets in his limo to go to Mouke Tsoe Bo Meats Abbattoir for the webcast executions. It sounds like Sam is mocking Lambert.

Lambert: Good Lord! That's Kong Feirong!
Sam Fisher: Good Lord! Who's that?!

fowlowl
12-12-2002, 03:14 PM
Getting off topic can only get this thread closer to being closed again and that would be doing xboxaddict a huge favor.

I dont see how I'm more off topic than the next person. This thread is supposed to talk about using God's name in Splinter Cell, and people are just using it as an excuse to either say how great or how awful religion is.

Back on topic, I think the game's use of God is a way to have mature language in the game and still keep the game in 'teen-rated' language. If the game was rated M, I'm sure we would have heard more 'sh*ts, damns, and hells' instead.

FuNkY mOnK
12-12-2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Kleen
I finished playing through SC again. I think it's Lambert says, "Jesus!" when you find out about the Ark being a S.A.M. (suitcase bomb). It's when you check the laptop PC in Nikoladze's office.

They both say "Good Lord!" after lazer mic'ing Kong Feirong in Myanmar-Chinese Embassy. It's right before Feirong gets in his limo to go to Mouke Tsoe Bo Meats Abbattoir for the webcast executions. It sounds like Sam is mocking Lambert.

Lambert: Good Lord! That's Kong Feirong!
Sam Fisher: Good Lord! Who's that?!
Thats it? thats all they say in the game? no wonder why i have'nt heard anything bad. Good Lord.:rolleyes:

fowlowl
12-12-2002, 04:01 PM
Oh Good Grief!!! Funky Monkey, you f*cking idiot. They use 'God' and 'Jesus' a lot more than you and Kleen think.

Why the hell do you waste our time reading your stupid f*cking posts, Funky, when you didnt even bother playing Splinter Cell. Play Splinter Cell and then write a post. I swear more than half the posts to this thread are yours. Do you see the irony in that?

And if you really have played Splinter Cell, play it once without being high on glue or animal tranquilizer or whatever your sorry @ss can afford. They already use it at least twice in the level where you have to go through the fire in the apartment, and that's the first level.

FuNkY mOnK
12-12-2002, 04:16 PM
Watch who you call an idiot or i'll have to spank you on xbox live.

fowlowl
12-12-2002, 04:37 PM
name the game

FuNkY mOnK
12-12-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by fowlowl
name the game
well right now NHL2k3 and motogp is worth my time, i like nhl2k3, set the time. i'm off the rest of the week.

Kleen
12-12-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by fowlowl
Oh Good Grief!!! Funky Monkey, you f*cking idiot. They use 'God' and 'Jesus' a lot more than you and Kleen think.

Why the hell do you waste our time reading your stupid f*cking posts, Funky, when you didnt even bother playing Splinter Cell. Play Splinter Cell and then write a post. I swear more than half the posts to this thread are yours. Do you see the irony in that?

And if you really have played Splinter Cell, play it once without being high on glue or animal tranquilizer or whatever your sorry @ss can afford. They already use it at least twice in the level where you have to go through the fire in the apartment, and that's the first level.

I posted the times that I remembered. I was almost done with the game, again, by the time I read this thread, so I didn't remember specific dialogue from the first level. ESPECIALLY something as unremarkable as using "The Lord's" name. The practice is a part of the American lexicon. It's a colloquialism -- it's used to express deep emotion about something, usually anger or displeasure.

Someone how has a problem with this game must not listen to popular radio, watch prime-time television, or movies, either. Honestly, I don't care how many times they say Jesus F'n Christ, Good Lord, Holy ****, God Blind Me or God Damn it.

You can't expect people to respect or pay respect to something they don't believe exists or concepts they find ludicrous at best. We all grew up believing in some form of God, but some of us can see the divide between romantic fantasy and logic.

fowlowl
12-12-2002, 07:48 PM
well i dont have NHL2k3, but I'll rent it just to get the chance to beat you. I'll rent it Wednesday (18th) and beat you Thursday.

My xboxlive name is IOnlySpareWomen

FuNkY mOnK
12-12-2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by fowlowl
well i dont have NHL2k3, but I'll rent it just to get the chance to beat you. I'll rent it Wednesday (18th) and beat you Thursday.
everybody deserves a chance, i'll be waiting.

Marc_01
12-12-2002, 11:19 PM
Hey im willing to take you on in MotoGP. Better be top 20 to keep up! look me up, name is "solidone", and we will race a few.

FuNkY mOnK
12-13-2002, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Marc_01
Hey im willing to take you on in MotoGP. Better be top 20 to keep up! look me up, name is "solidone", and we will race a few.
well were going off topic here and we should pm each other but while were on the subject are you talking rank 20 or position 20 because i believe there's only 20 spots in a race and i usually come in third 2nd or first if someone doesn't take me out in the beginning. i'll be sending you guys an invite so put me on your list as your best freind FuNkY mOnK.

Highlite23
12-13-2002, 10:19 AM
I think this thread has reached the "Beat a dead horse" stage, and we are straying off topic, and the profanity has started, so........

Most of you made some greeat points, it is about freedom of choice, and you have the right to not purchase something you may feel is offensive.

Now it's time to say goodbye:)