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View Full Version : Hey, has anyone thought about this? Graphic engienes



Veno
12-23-2002, 01:02 PM
Is it just me or, how is the xbox going to beable to handle the halo 2 engine at a constant fps when it can't handle the unreal tournament 2k3 engine constantly at 30 fps and at a low resolution?

Just a thought.
Don't flame me.

Veno
12-23-2002, 01:18 PM
Woah, no one has an answer, that doesnt seem very promising.

Cloud Strife
12-23-2002, 01:21 PM
It should be able to handle it. Games like Moto GP and Quantum Redshift run at a high framerate and the graphics are great. Bungie should be able to do it because they know how to use Xbox.

LynxFX
12-23-2002, 01:23 PM
Halo and Halo 2 are having their engine designed specifically for the Xbox while UC (UT2k3) didn't.

They are also completely different engines. Bungie relies on bump mapping for most of their effects. Bump mapping on the Xbox is virtually free, as they found out. Halo 2 will actually be pumping out less polygons than Halo but will be using bump mapping out the yazzoo.

rio2012
12-23-2002, 01:37 PM
THe answer is yes. The Halo 2 engine uses actually les polys then the original one but the detail is hoped up cause of the great lighting and bump mapinng.:cool:

Shadow20002
12-23-2002, 02:31 PM
Every game that have been build specifically for the xbox will have no problem with framerate. UT 2003 is build for only PC.

Koopa
12-23-2002, 03:34 PM
i dont get why everyone complains about uc's framerate...i have yet to see a problem with it, except for lag, or when you've got 16 players in gael all using rocket launchers at the exact same moment

MerimacHamwich
12-23-2002, 04:06 PM
Have you seen SplinterCell? Not one blip or skip or slowdown the whole 10+hours I played it. That is a hint at what Halo2 and Doom 3 will be like. Those games are all about lighting and bump mapping.

BCan
12-25-2002, 11:49 PM
The Unreal engine has always been a resource hog, so it is no real surprise that they didn't do a great conversion when it was put onto the XBOX.

SPARTAN VI
12-26-2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Lynxfx-XBA
Halo and Halo 2 are having their engine designed specifically for the Xbox while UC (UT2k3) didn't.

They are also completely different engines. Bungie relies on bump mapping for most of their effects. Bump mapping on the Xbox is virtually free, as they found out. Halo 2 will actually be pumping out less polygons than Halo but will be using bump mapping out the yazzoo.

That's exactly what I was goin to say.

The only framerate drop I've seen lately was today while I was at my aunt's gouse. My cousin (which just got an XBOX for XMAS
:cool: ) and I were playing co-op Ghost Recon. The framerate was gettin real funky when there were enemies all over, a tank, some AI soldiers, my squad, and my cousin's squad. It felt like the framerate dropped to aroun 10fps.:eek: We had to turn off our NV goggles in an effort to raise the framerate. First time I've seen any framerate drop on my XBOX since the beginning of my crazy Halo days.:D

Viper87227
12-26-2002, 12:16 AM
Does UC lag offline? Would you guys reccomend its purcahse for someone who doesnt have XBox live and cant forsee ever having it for lack of broadband?

shrew king
12-26-2002, 12:46 AM
notice the thread maker hasnt said anything....

shrew king
12-26-2002, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Viper87227
Does UC lag offline? Would you guys reccomend its purcahse for someone who doesnt have XBox live and cant forsee ever having it for lack of broadband?

its great online, but no, you shouldnt buy it if you have no chance of getting live.

SPARTAN VI
12-26-2002, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by shrew king
notice the thread maker hasnt said anything....

*notices and adds...*

cuz he has seen the light.:D

NINE BREAKER
12-26-2002, 03:46 AM
Hey Viper, UC is awesome offline, I recommend getting it. Don't know what the hel l Shrew is thinking:D

SPARTAN VI
12-26-2002, 04:03 AM
It's ok offline, but ShrewKing is right. It does eventually get boring if you're playing bots all the time, playing on LIVE just adds a whole lot of replay value.

If you're going to buy it without XBOX LIVE, then I recommened at least having enough friends with an XBOX, UC, a hub, and some cables, cuz man, you're gonna have to play some people other than bots...

Dark Enemy
12-26-2002, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by SPARTAN VI
It's ok offline, but ShrewKing is right. It does eventually get boring if you're playing bots all the time, playing on LIVE just adds a whole lot of replay value.

If you're going to buy it without XBOX LIVE, then I recommened at least having enough friends with an XBOX, UC, a hub, and some cables, cuz man, you're gonna have to play some people other than bots...

yeah it does get boring, this gakme should have had a story line at least

Cloud Strife
12-26-2002, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by SPARTAN VI
It's ok offline, but ShrewKing is right. It does eventually get boring if you're playing bots all the time, playing on LIVE just adds a whole lot of replay value.

If you're going to buy it without XBOX LIVE, then I recommened at least having enough friends with an XBOX, UC, a hub, and some cables, cuz man, you're gonna have to play some people other than bots... Playing with bots is what I have been doing in several videogames.:(

Viper87227
12-26-2002, 10:19 AM
I dont mind bots. Ive been playing Counter-Strike for years with just bots since I get to much lag playing online (yes, my PC IS that crappy)

by what you guys have been saying it sounds like the kind of game where i should wait till its price drops.

E Nomini Patri
12-26-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Veno
Woah, no one has an answer, that doesnt seem very promising.

I hate to say this but...you're just a tad too optimistic for your own good. Lighten up a bit. (sorry, I had to say that)

shrew king
12-26-2002, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by NINE BREAKER
Hey Viper, UC is awesome offline, I recommend getting it. Don't know what the hel l Shrew is thinking:D

play it online then switch to offline, then youll know what "the hell" im thinking ;)

shrew king
12-26-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by PublicEnemy2k3


yeah it does get boring, this gakme should have had a story line at least

how could a sport have a storyline? Maybe some cut scenes with some behind the scenes rivalry is about as far as it could go storyline-wise.

MerimacHamwich
12-26-2002, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by PublicEnemy2k3


yeah it does get boring, this gakme should have had a story line at least
Exactly waht Shrew said. Do you hate football, basketball, baseball, soccer, rugby, hockey, cricket and olympic games becuase they don't have a story line? If you watch the intro or play any of the game you should realise that this is meant to be a sport game. It is called innovation my friends. Taking a first person shooter game and turning it into a sport genre game. It is actually fairly deep too. You can trade teammates and enter several different tournaments. There is also player upgrading and stat tracking. Don't forget the player creation. There is more to this game than most other sports games.

Another game to think about when talking about framerates, Deathrow. Looks really good with lots and lots of effects, zero framerate drops and/or slowdown. My bro just got it today. Looks good, plays well and runs fantastic.

Dark Enemy
12-26-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich

Exactly waht Shrew said. Do you hate football, basketball, baseball, soccer, rugby, hockey, cricket and olympic games becuase they don't have a story line? If you watch the intro or play any of the game you should realise that this is meant to be a sport game. It is called innovation my friends. Taking a first person shooter game and turning it into a sport genre game. It is actually fairly deep too. You can trade teammates and enter several different tournaments. There is also player upgrading and stat tracking. Don't forget the player creation. There is more to this game than most other sports games.

Another game to think about when talking about framerates, Deathrow. Looks really good with lots and lots of effects, zero framerate drops and/or slowdown. My bro just got it today. Looks good, plays well and runs fantastic.

thanx for clearing it up, i like sport games, but nevermind ur right in ur arguement

MerimacHamwich
12-26-2002, 11:01 PM
The Unreal story line game will be comeing out too. Not sure if it will be on xbox but it issimply called Unreal 2.
:)

NINE BREAKER
12-26-2002, 11:42 PM
I have played it online, and yes it does kick @$$, but don't let a great game pass you by just because you don't have Live. Play'n bots isn't much different from play'n humans, if you got the balls to turn it to the hardest level. I mean the single player does suck once you beat it, but change the difficulty and play instant action, add a few homeboys, and it's a great game.

Cloud Strife
12-27-2002, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by NINE BREAKER
I have played it online, and yes it does kick @$$, but don't let a great game pass you by just because you don't have Live. Play'n bots isn't much different from play'n humans, if you got the balls to turn it to the hardest level. I mean the single player does suck once you beat it, but change the difficulty and play instant action, add a few homeboys, and it's a great game. That's what most people should do. It seems that most people I know complain about a game for being too easy and they play it on an easy difficulty level.

BCan
12-27-2002, 07:37 AM
UC and Unreal Tournament 2003 are the same as Q3A, they are purely deathmatch, with no storyline in them. Unreal has a storyline, so did Quake 2, and so does Quake 4....

UC/UT2003 were a direct response to Q3A, games that were expected to "flop" due to being multiplayer only - nobody told id that!!

Getting back on topic - the Unreal engine has never been efficient in using resources, so it is no doubt going to make any CPU struggle. It has an edge over the Quake dirivitive engines in that it looks slightly better. If the efficiency of the Quake engines could be combined with the extra "polish" of an Unreal engine, then we would have a great game engine......

Veno
12-27-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by SPARTAN VI


*notices and adds...*

cuz he has seen the light.:D

Incorrect... I'm just sick of being so bored I have to come back to these forums. I just rented UC without xbox live because i did not waiste the 50$ on it. And may I say one thing, I am the happiest man on the face of the earth for not buying xbox live and uc, thank you god. I rented it, UC is the worst pile of **** i've ever played. If any of you have played UT2k3 on pc, you will agree. The graphics are just horrible, hideous, you can't pick the number of bots, the most is only 10, when you can pick 16 in ut2k3. There are only 4 bot difficulties, when there are 10 in 2k3. And, the graphics. After all the complaints I've heard about hte framerate, i'd expected the visuals to stay the same as 2k3. But no, they're 10 times worse then 2k3's graphics. And I am not joking, 10 times worse, the characters animations are so bad that you can't see their faces. The death effects are so bad that the camera won't allow you to actually see the deaths close up and personal, like in ut2k3. And they don't even die cool, they just fly aroudn for a second, turn into some greenish g*ay light, and then fly up towards whatever. Wtf is that?? My god, i knew the xbox hardware was out dated, but thats all digital extremes could pull off with it?? Ahhhhhhhhhh, I never want to see a pc port on the xbox ever again. If they try to port doom iii, i will kill myself, for it will be the worst **** graphics on the face of the f*cking earth.

Veno
12-27-2002, 01:10 PM
Oh, and every one of you looking forward to rainbow six 3: raven shield on xbox, you're going to be getting a huge dissapointment. Because raven shield uses the ut2k3 engine, and it will look just as ****ty as UC, *shivers*. I'll be playing it on my pc though if they actualy fix the game. I got the demo of it, and man did they slow everything down for realism. I mean your crosshairs are so huge when you move, its impossible to kill anything while moving, because of the spread. And the run speed has been put down to hell. You're practically slowly jogging now, and the grenade radius is about half a foot. A grenade basically has to land in the palm of your hand for you to die.
If they fix all that sh*it before spring i'll get it. Otherwise I'll be getting my condition zero at the same time u'll be getting the original counter strike. Have fun.

merry christmas- Veno

MerimacHamwich
12-27-2002, 02:35 PM
Veno everything you say I disagree with. I also have a decent computer that can run UT2k3 at 1020x768 with full graphical effects at a solid framerate. So I am not just being ignorant. I do think some of the options for UC havebeen cut down too much but that is my only real gripe. Everything else you say about anything I seem to disagree with. I believe most people agree with me too. You have a weird sense of what is good and what isn't.

BCan
12-27-2002, 06:48 PM
I guess some people expect cinema quality graphics, scans, pan and zoom.......

Just because SGI workstations can create ATOC and TTT doesn't mean a normal PC can. Little do they tell you the compile time on the scenes.......

shrew king
12-27-2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Veno


Incorrect... I'm just sick of being so bored I have to come back to these forums. I just rented UC without xbox live because i did not waiste the 50$ on it. And may I say one thing, I am the happiest man on the face of the earth for not buying xbox live and uc, thank you god. I rented it, UC is the worst pile of **** i've ever played. If any of you have played UT2k3 on pc, you will agree. The graphics are just horrible, hideous, you can't pick the number of bots, the most is only 10, when you can pick 16 in ut2k3. There are only 4 bot difficulties, when there are 10 in 2k3. And, the graphics. After all the complaints I've heard about hte framerate, i'd expected the visuals to stay the same as 2k3. But no, they're 10 times worse then 2k3's graphics. And I am not joking, 10 times worse, the characters animations are so bad that you can't see their faces. The death effects are so bad that the camera won't allow you to actually see the deaths close up and personal, like in ut2k3. And they don't even die cool, they just fly aroudn for a second, turn into some greenish g*ay light, and then fly up towards whatever. Wtf is that?? My god, i knew the xbox hardware was out dated, but thats all digital extremes could pull off with it?? Ahhhhhhhhhh, I never want to see a pc port on the xbox ever again. If they try to port doom iii, i will kill myself, for it will be the worst **** graphics on the face of the f*cking earth.

....have you SEEN the graphics for Halo 2? UC's graphics are fine, the only problem with that game is the framerate. i notice you use UC as an excuse as to why you think the xbox sucks, its not the greatest game, granted, but the xbox is capable of much much more than that. First of all, UC was first made for the PC, then they ported it to the xbox. of course its gonna have problems, just like most ports do. how about you make some comebacks to something other than UC? a lot of people have told you why framerate isnt going to be a problem but all you could come back with was what was quoted. pitiful.

Veno
12-28-2002, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by shrew king


....have you SEEN the graphics for Halo 2? UC's graphics are fine, the only problem with that game is the framerate. i notice you use UC as an excuse as to why you think the xbox sucks, its not the greatest game, granted, but the xbox is capable of much much more than that. First of all, UC was first made for the PC, then they ported it to the xbox. of course its gonna have problems, just like most ports do. how about you make some comebacks to something other than UC? a lot of people have told you why framerate isnt going to be a problem but all you could come back with was what was quoted. pitiful.

Pitiful? All i gave was a review of uc, nothing quoted, wtf r u talking about? And uc's graphics are fine? You deserve to die my friend for saying crap like that, dude even my friends who know nothing about gaming agree with me when i compare graphics, the guns don't even look as good as ut2k3, u cant even see the full gun. They also changed hte gun models, you're goign to tell me that they did that to customize the game for the xbox? Wrong, they did it to get lower poly models so it would run smoother because the xbox can't handle anything BETTER. Aight, i'm through. I've made my point, you've made yours. Later.

MerimacHamwich
12-28-2002, 02:59 PM
Yes... they made the guns bigger in order to make the game speed run faster.

Veno, lets face it, you don't know what you are talking about. The only difference graphically between UT2k3 and UC is the resolutions.

Cloud Strife
12-28-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Veno everything you say I disagree with. I also have a decent computer that can run UT2k3 at 1020x768 with full graphical effects at a solid framerate. So I am not just being ignorant. I do think some of the options for UC havebeen cut down too much but that is my only real gripe. Everything else you say about anything I seem to disagree with. I believe most people agree with me too. You have a weird sense of what is good and what isn't. You disagree with me also. Japanese games are important for Xbox. That is why Playstation 2 sells really good.

RadRider
12-28-2002, 06:36 PM
uc's graphics are fine? You deserve to die my friend for saying crap like that, dude even my friends who know nothing about gaming agree with me when i compare graphics, the guns don't even look as good as ut2k3, u cant even see the full gun. They also changed hte gun models, you're goign to tell me that they did that to customize the game for the xbox? Wrong, they did it to get lower poly models so it would run smoother because the xbox can't handle anything BETTER.
Bad, bad, bad thing to say; that someone should die because of their opinion. Even if you are just kidding.
To you the guns don't look better than UT2003, but that's personal taste, especially since I think the shock rifle looks better in UC and has a higher poly count. Also, in UT2003 you can't see the full gun, it's called the field of view. If you find a way to adjust the field of view, you might actually be able to see more of the gun, but with the way it is at default, you just can't. It's like trying to look at your own neck in real life. You can assume that they changed the weapon models to make it run smoother on the xbox, but unless you actually go to the official UC forums and ask the developers and get an agreeable response, it's still just your opinion that that's what the developers did. I do agree that all opinions have been stated and obviously some people just refuse to agree with others, be it for blindness to facts or whatever.

Burning Ranger - Japanese games are important for the Xbox, but they aren't the sole reason that the PS2 is selling well. The main reason the PS2 is so successful is because of the unstoppable hype Sony dished out about the Playstation's predecessor. The Playstation basically became a haven for game developers after they experienced Nintendo's fascist grip on the industry, and so everyone flocked to it. Because of the wealth of games and ease of development, the Playstation sold very well. Of course people would naturally get excited for a sequel to such a console, especially with the way Sony was hyping it up, and that's why it became so popular - and because it's so popular is why the developers stayed with it.
Japanese games are important to any system - for that system to do well in Japan. There are cases where Japanese games do well in North America and vice versa but typically the developers are strongest in their own regions. I think it's kind of funny, but wholely frustrating that there's this 'theme' in North America right now (a nearly completely baseless theme by the way) that Japanese games are better than North American ones. I'm not saying you promote that theme, but I wouldn't be surprised if you did. It's simply false, and detrimental to the industry in more ways than it is positive.

Cloud Strife
12-28-2002, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by RadRider

Bad, bad, bad thing to say; that someone should die because of their opinion. Even if you are just kidding.
To you the guns don't look better than UT2003, but that's personal taste, especially since I think the shock rifle looks better in UC and has a higher poly count. Also, in UT2003 you can't see the full gun, it's called the field of view. If you find a way to adjust the field of view, you might actually be able to see more of the gun, but with the way it is at default, you just can't. It's like trying to look at your own neck in real life. You can assume that they changed the weapon models to make it run smoother on the xbox, but unless you actually go to the official UC forums and ask the developers and get an agreeable response, it's still just your opinion that that's what the developers did. I do agree that all opinions have been stated and obviously some people just refuse to agree with others, be it for blindness to facts or whatever.

Burning Ranger - Japanese games are important for the Xbox, but they aren't the sole reason that the PS2 is selling well. The main reason the PS2 is so successful is because of the unstoppable hype Sony dished out about the Playstation's predecessor. The Playstation basically became a haven for game developers after they experienced Nintendo's fascist grip on the industry, and so everyone flocked to it. Because of the wealth of games and ease of development, the Playstation sold very well. Of course people would naturally get excited for a sequel to such a console, especially with the way Sony was hyping it up, and that's why it became so popular - and because it's so popular is why the developers stayed with it.
Japanese games are important to any system - for that system to do well in Japan. There are cases where Japanese games do well in North America and vice versa but typically the developers are strongest in their own regions. I think it's kind of funny, but wholely frustrating that there's this 'theme' in North America right now (a nearly completely baseless theme by the way) that Japanese games are better than North American ones. I'm not saying you promote that theme, but I wouldn't be surprised if you did. It's simply false, and detrimental to the industry in more ways than it is positive. I actually like Western developers very much. I think Japnese developers are better with Console RPG games, fighting games, puzzle games, light gun games, dance games, Survival Horror's, and Mech games. I feel the western developers are better with racing, sports, action, first person shooters, RTS, and 3-D combat shooters. I feel that it can go the other way also. I know that Sony's hype is what sells the system. I can't even talk to any of my friends anymore because I own an Xbox. They are all Sony fanboys. That is kind of why I'm here all the time.

I say this though, I fell into the hype of the Playstation 2 at launch and I was very disapointed in the games after looking everywhere for a system and over paying for it. I ended up selling mine. I re-purchased one when there was a pirce drop. I had to purchase one because I like Japanese RPG games, anime style games, a few other fighting games, Namco, Sega, Capcom, and Konami games I couldn't get on Xbox. I love Xbox very much, I just had to buy one because I like Japanese oriented games. Xbox is still my favorite though.:)

Kortiz
12-28-2002, 10:21 PM
only read half of the first page, so dont bust out with HEY BIATCH I POSTED THAT SHIZZY ALREADY.....it has prob been posted....but here goes.


didnt SC use the UNREAL engine? what does that say about fps? i dunno the specs of SC but damn the graphics are good.

MerimacHamwich
12-28-2002, 11:04 PM
yes it did use it. There was no noticable framerate drops in that game either. Veno is just trying to find ways of bashing the xbox, thats all.