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View Full Version : *feeling of disenfranchisment*



Bishop
02-23-2003, 10:46 PM
Well I finally did it. I had to go out today and buy a pee es too so I could play Final Fantasy X. This is taking way too long to get some REAL rpgs on Xbox. No, Bauldur's Gate doesn't count. That's as much a RPG as Gauntlet was (though I love and own both games). So if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, call it a duck. These are not RPGs, and I think we're sick and tired of waiting for them. Pay attention MS, you didn't make market dominance by ignoring the actual market.


Bishop out.

canadianboi3
02-23-2003, 10:57 PM
Sorry that you feel this way. Oh well your loss in my opinion.

VenoM
02-23-2003, 11:05 PM
guess rpg's are more of a japanese thing and thats why ya dont see any on the xbox........i think square is stupid for not thinking about releasing final fantasy xi on the xbox...ffxi would of been out already on xboxlive and running with the xbox hard drive.......the reason its not out here in the usa is cause theres no ps2 hd in the us......i remember when it first came out in japan....the servers sucked ass...couldnt hold many people and was really unstable...that would of never been a prob on the xbox...but of course since xbox comes from an american company they just refuse to release it :rolleyes: stupid dopes


Originally posted by canadianboi3
Sorry that you feel this way. Oh well your loss in my opinion.

how is it his loss??:confused: its not like he traded his xbox...seems like he just bought a ps2........i got a ps2 for ps2 exclusives...some are pretty good so your the one missing out :D

Bishop
02-23-2003, 11:51 PM
Yes, I still very much have and love my xbox. Just got a set of AAD Q-50s and an AAD Q-1000 (12 Hrz w00t!) sub for the wonderful surround sound that only xbox can provide. I do however find great displeasure at the lack of immersive story on xbox games. While Morrowind was relatively nice, it never struck me like "d***, I'm glad I got this game, and there are no other RPG's out there as of yet....hence the pee es too.

I'm not stupid though. I still got the big green box.;)

B

Evil_Dr_Beefy
02-24-2003, 01:36 AM
Bishop, i know how you feel...the xbox seems to be hurting in the RPG games dept....With videogame consoles droping we are going to see more and more people going muti-console. I'm not loyal to any game console...only the games it plays. Dude, play what you like and go to what ever system has the game you want

:D :)

Bishop
02-24-2003, 01:47 AM
Yeah I agree 100%. I love Halo, Fatal Frame and SSX and have played through those and my other 10 or so xbox games, but down deep I think I'm most partial to RPGs. BG2:ToB and NWN on PC rocked, FF series rocked on pc and console, so it CAN be done, I just don't get why no one is doing it for the Xbox.

Not to mention I'd like a character creation ability on something other than my PC every now and again.

Bishop out.

yall
02-24-2003, 08:20 AM
I have only 1 problem with this thread... Final Fantasy X is as close to an RPG as I am close to being able to lay Jennifer Aniston. Thats not to say that there are alot of 'true' RPGs for the xbox, but if the xbox did have final fantasy, the number wouldnt be any higher.

Bishop
02-24-2003, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by yall
I have only 1 problem with this thread... Final Fantasy X is as close to an RPG as I am close to being able to lay Jennifer Aniston. Thats not to say that there are alot of 'true' RPGs for the xbox, but if the xbox did have final fantasy, the number wouldnt be any higher.

Admittedly, this is true, but real RPGs on consoles are as elusive as noble french soldiers. The point I was inadvertantly dancing around was that the FF series, like RPGs, has story. The games that ppl point to as Xbox RPGs, other than Morrowind (D&D Heroes, BGDA) have as much story as an elementary school play. The driving force behind FF and true rpgs is the same, immersive story, and I guess that is ultimately what I'm lacking.


Too bad it took me like 8 posts to hit it.:(

Bishop out.

JJaX
02-24-2003, 09:30 AM
Yeah i really wish square would wise up and bring a FF game to the xbox. I was really disappointed when i found out square was bailing on us.

But i would never stoop as low as actually buying a Pieace of S4it 2. Maybe for like $29.99 id get one...thats still a big maybe.

But remember the whole Metal gear scene? Everyones like "Maaaan, we need metal gear on xbox! Its so cool on Ps2"

Than when we got it with all the extras, it was garabage compared to Splinter cell. I feel the xbox can push any genere to the next level, and i used stealth based action as an example.

But than again, i dont know if any body else can do it like square. They already have established elements and characters (Bahummut[sp?], ifrit, leviation etc...) And everytime you start a FF game you know your in for a hell of a treat.

dronezero
02-24-2003, 05:57 PM
If story is what you want than you should try out Shenmue II. There is no better stroy to be had on the videogame scene at the moment.

y2kash_14
02-24-2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by canadianboi3
Sorry that you feel this way. Oh well your loss in my opinion.

what exactly did he lose?

canadianboi3
02-24-2003, 07:08 PM
Oh sorry my bad. I got the feeling you traded in your Xbox. SORRY!! If I had the money, I would buy a PS2 as well.

canadianboi3
02-24-2003, 07:09 PM
y2kash, I thought he traded his Xbox, so i said his loss becuase I THOUGHT he got rid of his Xbox.

Hitman101
02-24-2003, 08:24 PM
Here is an Rpg I think you'll like.

Video in wmv format


http://192.168.254.2:1694/Trailer%5F18%5F02%5F03.wmv

Bravo_2
02-24-2003, 08:30 PM
Isn't disenfranchisement the inability to vote? If so, how does that pertain to the post?

Bishop
02-24-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Bravo_2
Isn't disenfranchisement the inability to vote? If so, how does that pertain to the post?

Taken in it' smost literal sense, yes, but broadly it is defined as to deprive one of a voice to be heard. From the French 15th century word from which we also derive disfranchize, which is solely used to describe the revocation of voting privledges, here it is used to illustrate how my voice (in the latin republic sense, vis-a-vis my vote) is one that is not taken into consideration, and therfore revoked or rendered impotent.

Ok i hit my nerd quota for the day.

Bishop out.

PS, gonna check out Shenmue next weekend probably.

JJaX
02-26-2003, 08:50 AM
Shenmue II was ok. I got bored rather quickly...

Kortiz
02-26-2003, 08:57 AM
ill agree, i havnt touched my xbox....no rpgs is no good, i am broke so i couldnt get a game if i wanted. today im gonna break my bank so i can get moo3.

MerimacHamwich
02-26-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Bishop
Well I finally did it. I had to go out today and buy a pee es too so I could play Final Fantasy X. This is taking way too long to get some REAL rpgs on Xbox. No, Bauldur's Gate doesn't count. That's as much a RPG as Gauntlet was (though I love and own both games). So if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, call it a duck. These are not RPGs, and I think we're sick and tired of waiting for them. Pay attention MS, you didn't make market dominance by ignoring the actual market.


Bishop out.

You obviously have the wrong idea of what an RPG is. Baldurs Gate is based off of the rules and regulations of the first RPG ever made or even concieved, Dungeons and Dragons. It is what may be called a CRPG, Computer Role Playing Game. Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance is a true RPG. You may like Final Fantasy but that doesn't mean that any game not exactly the same as it is not an RPG.

As well, here is the list of RPG's on and coming to xbox in the near future as found on the www.xbox.com website. Note, they are missing some.

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance Interplay Entertainment November 2002 $49.99 Teen

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BlackStone: Magic and Steel Xicat Interactive February 2003 $49.99 Teen

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Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind Bethesda Softworks June 2002 $49.99 Teen

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Fable Microsoft Game Studios Winter 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending

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Gladius LucasArts May 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending

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Metal Dungeon Xicat Interactive November 2002 $49.99 Teen

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Nightcaster II: Equinox Jaleco Entertainment December 2002 $49.99 Teen

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Phantasy Star Online Episode I and II Sega Corporation March 2003 $39.99 Teen

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Psychonauts Microsoft Game Studios Winter 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending

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Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic LucasArts Spring 2003 $49.99 Teen

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Sudeki Microsoft Game Studios Winter 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending


How many times have I posted this now? 1 billion +1 times?

JJaX
02-26-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich

How many times have I posted this now? 1 billion +1 times?

This is the second time that ive seen...

Bishop
02-26-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
You obviously have the wrong idea of what an RPG is. Baldurs Gate is based off of the rules and regulations of the first RPG ever made or even concieved, Dungeons and Dragons. It is what may be called a CRPG, Computer Role Playing Game. Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance is a true RPG. You may like Final Fantasy but that doesn't mean that any game not exactly the same as it is not an RPG.

As well, here is the list of RPG's on and coming to xbox in the near future as found on the www.xbox.com website. Note, they are missing some.
[b]
Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance Interplay Entertainment November 2002 $49.99 Teen

BlackStone: Magic and Steel Xicat Interactive February 2003 $49.99 Teen

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind Bethesda Softworks June 2002 $49.99 Teen

Fable Microsoft Game Studios Winter 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending

Gladius LucasArts May 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending

Metal Dungeon Xicat Interactive November 2002 $49.99 Teen

Nightcaster II: Equinox Jaleco Entertainment December 2002 $49.99 Teen

Phantasy Star Online Episode I and II Sega Corporation March 2003 $39.99 Teen

Psychonauts Microsoft Game Studios Winter 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic LucasArts Spring 2003 $49.99 Teen

Sudeki Microsoft Game Studios Winter 2003 $49.99 Rating Pending


Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, here's an expansion on mine. Yes, there are more criteria defining what makes an RPG than those that do likewise for CRPGs, but by definition of the words in the acronym, there must be an element of role playing. Hack-n-slash games like Gauntlet do let you assume the personality of a wizard et al, but it is a shallow role with no character development and little if any anthropomorphism beyond physiological mechanics. My inclination to prefer either the Bioware computer games of the FF series is due to the extreme depth of characters, which makes it far easier to "role play." For HnS games, the characters are too shallow to identify with, and thus probably do not connect with the player (Save the 1% of people that are equally shallow).

Now for the games you listed:
Even neglecting the above paragraph, we can throw out Metal Dungeon, as anyone who has played it can agree. Can you say "rushed?" PSO is cursed and will likely never come out, it's been pushed back more times than I can even count. Morrowind I discussed in this thread already. Nightcaster.....yeah......cause the first one was so good. KotOR looks promising, but I'd rather have an original storyline game. I'll rent that one. Fable, the most promising on there (with perhaps Blackstone), is half a year away, as with Sudeki. Psychonauts is an action adventure game, which in no way helps out on the RPG scene. Gladius's storyline has me worried, so I'll withhold any judgement on that until it is released. Blackstone I pre-ordered.

How come I can choose 30 sports games for when I want to play those, but if I get the hankering for a new RPG as I did last week I had to plop down an antiquated ps2 and fill up another shelf on my rack? We're now a year plus into the console's lifetime and the RPG scene is far more anemic than it should be.

Bishop out.

Cloud Strife
02-28-2003, 09:47 AM
I can understand completely what you are saying Bishop. I hope my PM I sent you helped you out enough.

An RPG game was always a game with character interactions until Xbox game along and tried to say that those are not RPG games and they still are the original. If Xbox doesn't get any RPG games from Japan in the future that I want, I may have to do something I don't want to do.

RudedogX
02-28-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Burning Ranger
I can understand completely what you are saying Bishop. I hope my PM I sent you helped you out enough.

An RPG game was always a game with character interactions until Xbox game along and tried to say that those are not RPG games and they still are the original. If Xbox doesn't get any RPG games from Japan in the future that I want, I may have to do something I don't want to do.

Do it! Do it!:D

yall
02-28-2003, 01:22 PM
Perhaps the real problem with this thread is the fact that a computer, whether it is a pc or console, is limited in the type of true role playing experience it can provide. But since most people only have knowledge of RPG's through video games, their idea of what is a 'true' role playing game is tainted. If Halo had upgrades b/n levels and you could name your Master Cheif however you wanted, some people would have called it an RPG. Conversly, were the ability to level up taken away from the Legend of Zelda or Final fantasy (substitute roman numeral here), they could have been refered to as action/adventure and adventure/turn based strategy games respectively.

Bishop, it seems like your real complaint is with the lack of japanese style CRPG's. I have been playing CRPG's since the days of the first Wizardry, Ultima, and Bards Tale, and although I will be the first to admit that there could be a lot more RPG's for the xbox, the variety of the few that the xbox does have is good. You have Baldurs gate, Nightcatser I & II, that occupy the action end of the spectrum, and on the other end you have Morrowind, which I must say is the closest thing to a 'true' RPG to grace the likes of ANY system, whether you happen to like it or not. And although I have heard complaints about the quality of Metal Dungeon, it seems it has the same type of game play as the last few episodes of the final fantasy series (yes I know its nowhere near as good, I'm just using it as an example).

If you are interested in trying out some 'real' RPG's I would suggest downloading some abandonware, or getting together with some friends for a good 'ol fashioned pen and paper game.

If you are looking for the same old final fantasy rehash, get a ps2. There are more than enough similar titles that should keep you happy.

Bishop
02-28-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by yall

Bishop, it seems like your real complaint is with the lack of japanese style CRPG's. I have been playing CRPG's since the days of the first Wizardry, Ultima, and Bards Tale, and although I will be the first to admit that there could be a lot more RPG's for the xbox, the variety of the few that the xbox does have is good. You have Baldurs gate, Nightcatser I & II, that occupy the action end of the spectrum, and on the other end you have Morrowind, which I must say is the closest thing to a 'true' RPG to grace the likes of ANY system, whether you happen to like it or not. And although I have heard complaints about the quality of Metal Dungeon, it seems it has the same type of game play as the last few episodes of the final fantasy series (yes I know its nowhere near as good, I'm just using it as an example).

If you are interested in trying out some 'real' RPG's I would suggest downloading some abandonware, or getting together with some friends for a good 'ol fashioned pen and paper game.

If you are looking for the same old final fantasy rehash, get a ps2. There are more than enough similar titles that should keep you happy.
Well earlier in the thread I did acknowledge Morrowind, and yes,that is the problem I have. Morrowind is it. I'm running a websearch on abandonware as we speak, and I bought a ps2 a few days ago.

I love my ebox, don't get me wrong, but the game selection is skewed. As I said before, I can choose between 30 sports games, and I have only Morrowind to satisfy my RPG desires? The system is over a year old, and they need to get on the ball.

Bishop out

VeNoMiZA
02-28-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Burning Ranger
I can understand completely what you are saying Bishop. I hope my PM I sent you helped you out enough.

An RPG game was always a game with character interactions until Xbox game along and tried to say that those are not RPG games and they still are the original. If Xbox doesn't get any RPG games from Japan in the future that I want, I may have to do something I don't want to do. http://www.ileet.net/images/areyou.jpg

Bishop
02-28-2003, 02:07 PM
Did you get my PM back, or did I do it wrong?

Bishop out.

Cloud Strife
02-28-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Bishop
Did you get my PM back, or did I do it wrong?

Bishop out. Yes I did. I did get it from you.:)

You can contact me anytime you need to.;)

Zion
02-28-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by canadianboi3
Sorry that you feel this way. Oh well your loss in my opinion.

Well, he didn't get rid of his Xbox..how is that a loss?

I love my Xbox, but I think that anyone who has only an Xbox have a great loss by not being able to play the games that are on PS2.

Same with Gamecube. I love my Xbox. I also love my PS2 and Gamecube..and Game Boy Advance. I can play Battlebots on my GBA...it would be my loss only if I DIDN'T have multiple consoles.

Cloud Strife
02-28-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Zion
Well, he didn't get rid of his Xbox..how is that a loss?

I love my Xbox, but I think that anyone who has only an Xbox have a great loss by not being able to play the games that are on PS2.

Same with Gamecube. I love my Xbox. I also love my PS2 and Gamecube..and Game Boy Advance. I can play Battlebots on my GBA...it would be my loss only if I DIDN'T have multiple consoles. I happen to agree with you on that. That's why I made sure that I had all three next gen consoles. I play to buy a GBA SP and a GBA adapter to play games on GC. I could not live without one of my systems. However, I do give one system more support over the other most of the time. As of right now, it's my PS2 that's getting the support while my Xbox got the support at last Christmas.

CrazyCougar
02-28-2003, 04:24 PM
BR, by the sounds of almost everyone of your posts it sounds like you have a hard time living period. Let alone living without one of your consoles...LOL! Dude, lighten up and enjoy life a little.

JimmieDoogan
02-28-2003, 05:47 PM
How about instead of arguing as to what an RPG is, just say he wants some JAPANESE RPG's. In that sense, a Japanese RPG is really just an interactive story book. And I'm with ya Bishop. Playing Kingdom Hearts, and just thinking what Square could do with the power of X... OMG. They could actually make a game that doesn't only look good when watching the FMV. I'm sorry but FFX runs and looks like crap in my opinion. That's why they constantly use that TRAILS camera, to cover up the slow down. They use it alot in MGS 2 as well. And they're don't seem to be any textures in the game, just polygons and shades. LAME!!!!! Square could make SUCH AN AWSOME GAME if they were truely commited to doing so. But considering they refuse to support Xbox, and that they only PORT and badly port, they're FF games to PC it's obvious that they (like Rockstar) are completely uninterested in offering the best possible gaming experiance. They're not even interested in reaching the widest possible audience. If they were, they'd be multiplatform. Like Rockstar's GTA series was planned originally to be... Oh well, screw the company that doesn't want to offer you more bang for your buck I always say. Haven't bought a FF game since FF3. Borrowed or rented all the rest, and Kingdom Hearts belongs to a buddy of mine. Well... here's hopin that Sudeki is an awsome game. None of them will substitute for a Japanese RPG (Fable and Sudeki are being made by European companies) but we can at the very least hope they are great games. I have confidence and faith in MS but I also have great reservations about they're abillity to convice the Japanese market. If they had the aformentioned RPG's under they're belt, I bet they wouldn't be doing so poor in Japan. GET WITH IT MS!!! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE CANNED COFFEE PURCHASED FROM THAT ENGRISH SNACK MACHINE!

xboxman_1
02-28-2003, 06:19 PM
I could not live without one of my systems.

Gotta disagree on that one....I think I could live without video games period....people definitely did it before now; in fact most people live without them.