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Hitman101
03-04-2003, 03:36 PM
(CNN) Electronic Arts' online folly

Electronic Arts' online folly
Gaming powerhouse has been unable to transfer its success to the online world
March 4, 2003: 10:40 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Electronic Arts' first steps into the world of online gaming were pretty surefooted ones.

The launch of "Ultima Online" in 1997 was a watershed event in the industry - and while it wasn't the first online-only, subscription-based game, it was the first that could be termed a breakaway success. Loyal fans of the role-playing games rushed to join the persistent virtual world, where they could slay dragons with friends for the cost of $10 per month.

From there, things started to go downhill.

These days, EA.com, the company's online division, is stumbling, beset by disappointing sales, cancelled products and multimillion-dollar losses. Tuesday morning, the company announced plans to consolidate the assets and operations of EA.com into its core operations, meaning it will no longer break out the division's profit or loss in its quarterly earnings report.

If nothing else, the move is good damage control. For the quarter ending Dec. 31, 2002, the online unit lost $3.5 million. That's better than the $6.7 million loss during the same period in 2001, but a bigger loss than the company had anticipated.

In conjunction with the consolidation, EA (ERTS: Research, Estimates) will take a pretax charge between $55 million and $75 million this quarter. Just last October, another resturcturing carried a $14 million price tag and resulted in 270 lost jobs.

The plan was for EA.com to become profitable during this fiscal quarter. That's not going to happen. And in its Form 10-Q, EA conceded "long-term profitability of this business segment cannot be assured."

The game the company had hoped would lead the way to profitability - "The Sims Online" - has not lived up to expectations. As of last month, the game had 85,000 subscribers paying $10 per month. (An EA spokesperson says the number has grown since then, but the company won't be providing an update until April.)

Bad timing might be partly to blame for the numbers. "The Sims Online" came out later than expected last year, which had a negative impact on sales.

"By the time 'The Sims Online' was ready, we were well into the holidays and most kids had their wish lists ready," said John Taylor, managing director and analyst for Arcadia Investment Corp.

Poor reviews didn't help matters. Neither did the company's sky-high expectations. (Originally, EA forecasted it would have 200,000 players registered by March 30, 2002.)

"Getting people to pay for content online takes time, not three months," said P.J. McNeely, research director at GartnerG2.

Other online titles have performed even worse. Last week, the company announced it would shut down "Motor City Online" at the end of August. Released in October 2001, "MCO" hoped to capitalize on the success of the company's "Need For Speed" franchise. It got so-so reviews initially, but gamers were never willing to pay $10 per month for virtual drag racing. EA won't break down how many paid subscribers the game currently has, but Wall Street estimates the number to be somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000.

The collapse of "MCO" isn't the first high-profile failure. "Majestic", an innovative, though poorly received conspiracy game, crashed and burned once it went live. Of the 800,000 people who started to register for the free, first installment of the game, only 71,200 completed the process. That number fell to 10,000 to 15,000 subscribers when it came time to pay. The experiment cost EA between $5 million and $7 million.

Next on the hit list could be "Earth & Beyond", an online role-playing game that eschews dwarves and dragons for outer space exploration and combat. Again, EA will not break down how many paying subscribers it has for the game, but The NPD Group, which tracks game sales, reports the game has only sold 53,000 copies since its launch in September 2002 ? and sales are barely registering these days despite a significant reduction to the retail price.

About the only thing really firing for the online business is its oldest title; "Ultima Online" boasts between 220,000 and 230,000 subscribers. Still, that's only half the number of subscribers of Sony's (SNE: Research, Estimates) "EverQuest", whose monthly fee is $5 higher.

It's worth noting that the online world is still a nascent one in the gaming industry. So far, no publisher has been able to achieve mass-market success, as most consumers are still uncomfortable giving their credit card information to a gaming company.

And the online division is a small part of EA's empire. The company is the industry's leading publisher and shows no signs of ceding that title anytime soon. Its confidence, perhaps even arrogance, in that role has worked against it as it tries to expand its boundaries, say analysts.

"The thing they've done wrong is anticipate if they build it a mass market would show up," said Taylor.

Even EA concedes in its 10-Q that "we have limited experience with online games and may not be able to operate this business effectively."

Analysts credit the company, though, for positioning itself well for the future. If online gaming does eventually become the force everyone expects it to be, "they have the infrastructure in place to let it explode," said McNeely.

The hitch is, with Tuesday's announcement, we won't know when that explosion takes place.

Link to CNN artical :http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/04/com...r/column_gaming

VeNoMiZA
03-04-2003, 05:08 PM
HAH! THATS WHAT THEY GET FOR DOING STUPID SHAT LIKE RUINING THE 007 SERIES, AND RUINING OUR CHANCES TO PLAY 1942 ON XBOX HAH GO TO HELL ea!!!

LTM360
03-04-2003, 05:29 PM
Just shows people wont pay to play online...(hint hint Sega, and Microsoft!!!!). I hope the losses continue for that company. Serves you right for taking BF1942 from us!

Master Gracey
03-04-2003, 05:34 PM
I'm not exactly up to date on latest news, so forgive me if this has been asked a million times... what was the reasoning for cancelling BF1942? I knew it was off, but I never read anything about why and I'd like to know the lame excuse EA gave.

Snoopy7548
03-04-2003, 05:37 PM
i hope that EA goes bankrupt

MerimacHamwich
03-04-2003, 05:38 PM
I believe they said they wanted to put more effort into making Road to Rome... It made no sense. My god I hate EA. I wish the company who developed it (I believe it was Dice) would get a new publisher. That game is actually one of EA's rare feats of greatness, then again, they only published it. Everyone says they are all about making money but how would not bringing Battlfield 1942 to Xbox get them more money?

Hitman101
03-04-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Master Gracey
I'm not exactly up to date on latest news, so forgive me if this has been asked a million times... what was the reasoning for cancelling BF1942? I knew it was off, but I never read anything about why and I'd like to know the lame excuse EA gave.

It was cancelled to make the expansion pack for the PC version.

ShannonX
03-04-2003, 07:05 PM
everbody always whines and complains about games not coming to the xbox.... If the game is on the PC, do what i did and get it for the pc... fun game by the way.

LynxFX
03-04-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Hitman101
It was cancelled to make the expansion pack for the PC version.
Yeah which was total BS since they made that announcement practically 2 weeks before the expansion pack went gold.

I hope other companies do learn from EA's mistakes though.

Hitman101
03-04-2003, 07:10 PM
Not all of us have the money to get a nice high class gaming PC like you do.

Master Gracey
03-04-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Shannon-XBA
everbody always whines and complains about games not coming to the xbox.... If the game is on the PC, do what i did and get it for the pc... fun game by the way.

My personal top 10 list for not buying PC versions:

10. 800 Mhz
9. 256 Mb RAM
8. 40G hard drive (35 currently being used)
7. $200/month student loan payment
6. $300/month health insurance payment
5. $100/month car insurance
4. $200/month rent
3. At least a $500 repair bill on my car in the forseeable future
2. No money
1. No job, having a hard time finding one.


EDIT - Gas prices just went to their highest point in over two years... perfect timing. :rolleyes:

ARONO129
03-04-2003, 07:17 PM
EA and in particular EA S"ports" is a hit and miss company with more misses than hits. Madden '03 is a great Xbox title but EA doesn't make it online.

If any company should lose money it's geedy and lazy EA.

ShannonX
03-04-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Hitman101
Not all of us have the money to get a nice high class gaming PC like you do.


and who said i have a high class gamming pc? Its far away from beeing high class, not having a high class pc just means you wont be able to play with all the "high quality" options turned on. Big deal.


i upgrade my pc as i have the money, which isnt' very often, so i can keep it right about average.


and Master Gracey, just be thankful you dont have a car payment.

shrew king
03-04-2003, 07:53 PM
I am glad they are losing money. Those idiots tried to charge monthly for a racing game! If they had released BF1942 they would have most likely charged through the roof. After reading that I think they deserve what they are getting.

Snoopy7548
03-04-2003, 07:56 PM
they would have made so much more money releasing it on the xbox than making an expansion pack.

Master Gracey
03-04-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Shannon-XBA
and Master Gracey, just be thankful you dont have a car payment.

That's about to happen soon... I have a '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and like most jeeps, it's always falling to pieces. The repair bills on it total $2000-3000 a year. My coolant system just went out again for the third time in the last year, and each repair is over $500. It runs so poorly that I get 12 mpg, and I live in Colorado where we have to pay mid-grade prices for 87 octane gas (unlike the rest of the country where 87 is low-grade).

Sometime soon I'm gonna get rid of the Jeep and get a bug. I'd get a Mini, but the waiting list for them is still rather long... the Mini has been my dream car since I was 13. :D

canadianboi3
03-04-2003, 08:30 PM
I hope that EA goes bankrupt, and they start begging Xbox to buy them. And we say F*** off A$shole!! YA!! WHOOO HOOO

Stormlord
03-04-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by canadianboi3
I hope that EA goes bankrupt, and they start begging Xbox to buy them. And we say F*** off A$shole!! YA!! WHOOO HOOO

No, EA has PC and PS2 to lean on. But I see your point. They made their choice to barely support Xbox so now if PS2 and PC can't support them anymore and since a huge ammount of Xboxers dislike EA they'll probably flop. :D :D :)

Hitman101
03-04-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Master Gracey
That's about to happen soon... I have a '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and like most jeeps, it's always falling to pieces. The repair bills on it total $2000-3000 a year. My coolant system just went out again for the third time in the last year, and each repair is over $500. It runs so poorly that I get 12 mpg, and I live in Colorado where we have to pay mid-grade prices for 87 octane gas (unlike the rest of the country where 87 is low-grade).

Sometime soon I'm gonna get rid of the Jeep and get a bug. I'd get a Mini, but the waiting list for them is still rather long... the Mini has been my dream car since I was 13. :D

Get the bug convertible it looks HOT.

MerimacHamwich
03-04-2003, 08:52 PM
Why do my posts seem to get ignored alot of the time.

Master Gracey
03-04-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Why do my posts seem to get ignored alot of the time.

Did I hear something...? :D :)

Master Gracey
03-04-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Stormlord
No, EA has PC and PS2 to lean on. But I see your point. They made their choice to barely support Xbox so now if PS2 and PC can't support them anymore and since a huge ammount of Xboxers dislike EA they'll probably flop. :D :D :)

My radio station supports Xbox more than EA does... not that I can choose the small amount of advertising that gets put on the station, but I was listening once and they had an ad for winning an Xbox. :D Amazing how it creeps up where you least expect it, and yet one of the world's largest video game companies can't come to grips with the fact that the Xbox is here to stay.

BTW - I can eliminate all ads on the station, but it'd cost me at least $70 a month and I'm not doing that...

ShannonX
03-04-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Master Gracey
That's about to happen soon... I have a '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and like most jeeps, it's always falling to pieces. The repair bills on it total $2000-3000 a year. My coolant system just went out again for the third time in the last year, and each repair is over $500. It runs so poorly that I get 12 mpg, and I live in Colorado where we have to pay mid-grade prices for 87 octane gas (unlike the rest of the country where 87 is low-grade).

Sometime soon I'm gonna get rid of the Jeep and get a bug. I'd get a Mini, but the waiting list for them is still rather long... the Mini has been my dream car since I was 13. :D


ouch! thats some pricey repair bills. Granted, its cheaper to pay that than pay a years worth of payments, but you also get the peace of mind of having a warrenty, and cheaper gas bills.

xboxman_1
03-04-2003, 09:45 PM
they would have made so much more money releasing it on the xbox than making an expansion pack.

I higly doubt that, considering how big the market is for expansion packs on the PC....and the fact that they have to sell a certain number of games just to break even, there is no way they would have made "so much more." I guess we'll never know.

(Im not saying I dont care that it got canceled or anything, because I dont have a good enough PC, and I had been awaiting this game very much.)

Master Gracey
03-04-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Shannon-XBA
ouch! thats some pricey repair bills. Granted, its cheaper to pay that than pay a years worth of payments, but you also get the peace of mind of having a warrenty, and cheaper gas bills.

Hmm... didn't even think about the warranty! Good point. :D That would definitely be nice. But the biggest selling point for me is having a car that gets 20 mpg more than my current one. I got the jeep when I was living in Maryland and had to haul huge stuff around all the time. Now that I'm back in Colorado and not having to haul anything, I just don't need an SUV. I like small cars better anyway...

MerimacHamwich
03-04-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by xboxman_1
I higly doubt that, considering how big the market is for expansion packs on the PC....and the fact that they have to sell a certain number of games just to break even, there is no way they would have made "so much more." I guess we'll never know.

(Im not saying I dont care that it got canceled or anything, because I dont have a good enough PC, and I had been awaiting this game very much.)

I am going to have to disagree with this statement seeing as software sales are what pushes the gaming industry into growth. They probably break even within a week, for pretty much every game company that puts out a game.

bob808
03-04-2003, 11:12 PM
Man, What IS up with EA seeming to not like the Xbox? I am not going to whine 'bout 1942 although it did look dope. But for an example of ea not liking xbox, how 'bout this?

Tiger Woods pga 2003 (good game-- good job ea)
but why the hell did they assign the button mashing buttons to the white and black buttons?!? (with no option to config controller) On my original controller, they are the buttons that you have to reach to get to. On my jap controller, they are recessed so that they are not that easy to press. Its almost like they did it on purpose out of spite. Then madden not online? No 1942. Need for speed better on ps2 than on Xbox?!? F*kin ea anyhow..... I try to keep my game buyin from them to a minimum.

If EA wants to win over xboxers, (which I dont think they want to....) They should make (excuse me, publish) a really cool game to take advantage of all the xbox features, and make it exclusive!
It could happen....... (but i doubt it)

MerimacHamwich
03-04-2003, 11:38 PM
My EA product purchasing is at 0% and has been forever, as far as I can tell.

kachingtensor
03-05-2003, 08:57 AM
Electronic Arts is in Sony's back pocket, and they won't care until it starts costing them too much money. With any luck for video gamers that will be soon.

I can still recall reading a Next Generation Magazine interview with Bing Gordon back in 1999, back when EA was murdering the Dreamcast in America at Sony's beck and call, and the sheer spew of arrogance from that man was corrupt capitalism and bull**** spite at its worst.

EA has a track record of buying and destroying decent small developers, too. But perhaps they were too foolish when they trusted Sony on console online.....

I am hopeful that EA will suffer, especially the rich ************s who've made millions kissing Sony's @$$. I feel sorry for the poorer people who used to work for EA, before top-level mismanagement cost them their jobs.
:cool:

HaloMasterVI
03-05-2003, 10:16 AM
HAHA EA DESERVES TO CRASH n BURN, EA SUCKS! BOYCOTT EA!

EA was only good on the Sega Genesis(Road Rash), then they went to crap.

HOW ABOTU A ROAD RASH ONLINE!?

Here's something to think about, say, PS2 was powerful enough to handle BF1942 as Xbox is, you KNOW it would have come to PS2 and Xbox then, they just don't want to make PS2 look anymore inferior than it already is.

Kortiz
03-05-2003, 01:58 PM
haha.

Stormlord
03-05-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by kachingtensor
Electronic Arts is in Sony's back pocket, and they won't care until it starts costing them too much money. With any luck for video gamers that will be soon.

I can still recall reading a Next Generation Magazine interview with Bing Gordon back in 1999, back when EA was murdering the Dreamcast in America at Sony's beck and call, and the sheer spew of arrogance from that man was corrupt capitalism and bull**** spite at its worst.

EA has a track record of buying and destroying decent small developers, too. But perhaps they were too foolish when they trusted Sony on console online.....

I am hopeful that EA will suffer, especially the rich ************s who've made millions kissing Sony's @$$. I feel sorry for the poorer people who used to work for EA, before top-level mismanagement cost them their jobs.
:cool:

Yeah EA went totally fruity when they stopped supporting Dreamcast. I mean Genesis was what made E*** famous and rich. But now we got one of the best sports franchises from Sega. So thanks E*** for that. :) :cool:

xboxman_1
03-05-2003, 06:33 PM
I am going to have to disagree with this statement seeing as software sales are what pushes the gaming industry into growth. They probably break even within a week, for pretty much every game company that puts out a game.

You think games like Kabuki Warriors and Night Caster made any money? If they did, it was about 2.5 cents. Now, with a game like BF 1942, they would have, but who's to say that they would have made MORE money with an xbox version as they would a PC expansion? I reiterate myself - we will never know.

MerimacHamwich
03-05-2003, 06:40 PM
I think it is safe to say they would have made more money on an xbox version. I have yet to come across anyone who has bought Road to Rome.

How about Conflict Desert Storm for an example of a relatively unknown game. It has sold 1,000,000 copies. I am willing to bet that they made money on that game, yet there hasn't been any rave reviews of it nor has their been any hype.

Kabuki Warriors and Night Caster actually did sell. How else do you think it got out that the game sucked? I also know people who rather like one or the other. It is all personal preference. There will always be people who buy a game that comes out. Ofcourse there could be examples of games not making profit but those are probably extremely rare and far between. Comparing BF1942 and Kabuki Warriors was probably the worst comparison you could have come up with. A high selling, high rating PC game of the year compared to a title that the majority of gamers around the world hate.

Master Gracey
03-05-2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by xboxman_1
You think games like Kabuki Warriors and Night Caster made any money? If they did, it was about 2.5 cents. Now, with a game like BF 1942, they would have, but who's to say that they would have made MORE money with an xbox version as they would a PC expansion? I reiterate myself - we will never know.

FYI - Nightcaster did do a small bit of sales... and was promptly slammed by critics. The entire team that worked on the game was fired from VR-1, including some of the c0cky, holier-than-thou jerks I went to school with.

See? Karma works! :D

xboxman_1
03-05-2003, 06:55 PM
Comparing BF1942 and Kabuki Warriors was probably the worst comparison you could have come up with

When did I compare them??? I was saying that not all games make money, countering your point that they all do.

Stormlord
03-05-2003, 07:06 PM
I think it is safe to say they would have made more money on an xbox version. I have yet to come across anyone who has bought Road to Rome.

I bought Road to Rome and don't even play it. It was not worth cancelling the XBox version of Bf1942. The funny thing is that RtR went gold when they cancelled. Go figure....:mad: :(