Clone Wars: 7.7 @ IGN

[MixMasta]

IGN gave Star Wars: The Clone Wars a 7.7. Too bad its an insider article...I want to know whats bad/good about the game. If anyone has Insider, please post the review here.

Gamespot did not have a review yet.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by MixMasta
IGN gave <b><i>Star Wars: The Clone Wars</i></b> a 7.7. Too bad its an insider article...I want to know whats bad/good about the game. If anyone has Insider, please post the review here.

MixMasta,
With all due respect, isn’t the whole point of IGN selling Insider subscriptions is that not everybody can get access to them?

Posting them here would be, IMHO, unethical and probably (although I’m not an attorney and I am not familiar with the law) illegal as well.

[MixMasta]

Originally posted by selowitch


MixMasta,
With all due respect, isn&amp;#8217;t the whole point of IGN selling Insider subscriptions is that not everybody can get access to them?

Posting them here would be, IMHO, unethical and probably (although I&amp;#8217;m not an attorney and I am not familiar with the law) illegal as well.


your right, but do you think people really listen?? for example, you probably download music off kazaa or some other p2p service, isn't that illegal??? the thing is, no one really ever listens...and plus, people have posted insider information here before, so what is stopping them now??

selowitch, sorry if this assumption is false...

[Wolfgame]

umm i removed the ign review due to I had NO IDEA ITD BE THIS BIG OF AN ARGUMENT SO GUYS THIS THEARD can be closed or...something anyways just wait till its open to the public.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by MixMasta
your right, but do you think people really listen?? for example, you probably download music off kazaa or some other p2p service, isn't that illegal???

Actually, I don’t. I <i>buy</i> my music. On CDs. Imagine that. Why? Because if I don’t, IMHO I’m stealing it just as if I’d walked into a store, grabbed a CD, and stuffed it into my jacket before walking out.

people have posted insider information here before, so what is stopping them now??

Nothing except their absent consciences. Sad, isn’t it? The unfortunate result of our “whatever” culture.

selowitch, sorry if this assumption is false... [/B]

Apparently not sorry enough not to have said it in the first place.

No offense taken, though. Perhaps I should lighten up after all.... <i>Nah!</i>

While I admit up-front that I don’t know for sure that it is illegal to re-post copyrighted material, I can certainly say, nevertheless, that it violates my personal code of ethics. And it should violate yours as well, IMHO—assuming you have one.

Programmers, musicians, technicians, writers and other laborers need the proceeds from their publications and music in order to survive and put food on the table. Stealing their stuff, no matter how easy or socially acceptable it may be, is morally wrong.

[RudedogX]

First off...Nice triple post there selo!:cuss:

Secondly, yes, I do believe it is copyright infringement, but one reason I wouldn't have much in the way of a guilt if I were to post it is due to the fact that within 2-3 days of the article being an insider exclusive is that it becomes public anyway.

:watchout:

[VAN]

I wonder if Selo's superior moral values prevented him from reading the IGN article posted above. :)

Not a chance. That dude read every last word.

Thief!!! :D

[selowitch]

Originally posted by rudedogX
First off...Nice triple post there selo!:cuss:

Guilty as charged. Sorry. Next time I’ll edit them together.

Secondly, yes, I do believe it is copyright infringement, but one reason I wouldn't have much in the way of a guilt if I were to post it is due to the fact that within 2-3 days of the article being an insider exclusive is that it becomes public anyway.

Hmmm. Are you arguing from a legal perspective here, or from a utilitarian one?

[RudedogX]

Does it matter? The fact is, it will be available publicly within 2 days, so it is pretty pointless for it to even be made an insider article. Oh wow, we get the article a full two days before everyone else, let's pay that extra money for advanced knowledge that others will know too...:watchout:

Ya know though...you didn't responded to van there...is that because you did read the above review even though it is an Insider article?:watchout:

[selowitch]

Originally posted by rudedogX
Does it matter? The fact is, it will be available publicly within 2 days, so it is pretty pointless for it to even be made an insider article.

So it is a practical argument you are making, then. Sure, you’re right about that. But just because you <i>can</i> do something does not mean you <i>should</i>.

Ya know though...you didn't responded to van there...is that because you did read the above review even though it is an Insider article?:watchout: [/B]

Truthfully? I had to scroll down pretty far to get past the article, and yes, I did scan a sentence or two here or there. This does not neutralize my argument, though, that it shouldn’t have been posted in the first place.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by VAN
I wonder if Selo's superior moral values prevented him from reading the IGN article posted above. :)

:argue1: I resist the characterization of my moral values as “superior”; I’m merely trying to present an argument, not impose my views on somebody else (not that I could if I wanted to).

:watchout: On the other hand, anytime a person makes a moral argument, I suppose he is implicitly suggesting that his point of view is better than (read: superior to) someone else’s. Oh, well.

[VAN]

Originally posted by selowitch
On the other hand, anytime a person makes a moral argument, I suppose he is implicitly suggesting that his point of view is better than (read: superior to) someone else&amp;#8217;s. Oh, well.

You're one of them right-wing bible thumpers, aintcha? The kind that will drone on and on about their beliefs, yet will turn a deaf ear when presented with opposing viewpoints.

You: There is a God. You should go to church.

Me: No there isn't. Leave me alone.

You: You shouldn't post copyrighted material. That's naughty.

Me: Thanks for the advice. Now butt out.


It's always the people from YOUR side that seem to be the instigators. I can't immediately recall an instance where I was in a store with a stack of CD's in tow and found people telling me to just download the songs for free.

My point is this...

Your opinion is just that... YOUR opinion. I don't care what it is, and I have no need for you to tell me. Keep your opinions to yourself, and I shall return the favor in kind. :)

[Slayer02]

You know what selo, Shut up. :argue1: IGN backstabbed us, we trusted them for yearrrrrrrrrrs to provide us solid info, then we get movie ads, sound ads and all that bs, then they pull the insider stunt, how much cash do they need? Or wait, how much will it take to satisfy their greed? And the scores are available to anyone, just what's inside isn't. :rolleyes: and kazaa isn't stealing if you buy the cd.

[RudedogX]

Reads Van's response

RDX Golf Claps his way out of thread

[selowitch]

Originally posted by VAN
You're one of them right-wing bible thumpers, aintcha? The kind that will drone on and on about their beliefs, yet will turn a deaf ear when presented with opposing viewpoints.

Uh ... nooo. Actually, you will probably be shocked to learn that I am a liberal Jewish Democrat. But we have moral ideas and values, too, unlike what a lot of right-wingers are fond of implying.

Good guess, though.... :p

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Slayer02
You know what selo, Shut up.

Stop it right there, please.
I have never attacked anyone on XBA <i>ad hominem</i>, and I expect you to show similar restraint.
You are welcome to disagree with me, even vehemently. But resorting to an unprovoked personal attack is beneath your dignity and contrary to the spirit of this forum.

[VAN]

Selo, despite what you may have been told, you do not get extra credit for posting the same message twice. Not even if you use 2 different subject lines. :)

And I apologize for the "Bible Thumper" remark. I had no idea you were Jewish. Perhaps "Tora Tapper" would be a more appropriate label? :D

(sorry, couldnt resist)

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Slayer02
IGN backstabbed us, we trusted them for yearrrrrrrrrrs to provide us solid info, then we get movie ads, sound ads and all that bs, then they pull the insider stunt, how much cash do they need? Or wait, how much will it take to satisfy their greed?

Mr. Slayer, I’m afraid I cannot agree with your perspective on this. In the current economy, lots and lots of websites are hurting for cash, and for them to ask people to pay for special content hardly seems unreasonable to me.

kazaa isn't stealing if you buy the cd.

Oh, really? In my view, that’s simply absurd. The damage is done the minute you take something that isn’t yours.

How would you feel if you had a store, and a shoplifter comes along and takes an item without paying for it. By your logic, he could excuse himself merely by saying, “I intend to buy what I have just removed from your store at some later date”?

[RudedogX]

Selo, do you absolutely need to have a post for every response to the arguements? You obviously no the use of cut and paste...may I suggest using it? Otherwise, it just looks like you're trying to up your post count which is pretty well frowned upon since some people actually think that having a high post count makes you cool.:watchout:


Finally, as Van said, it's your opinion (but unlike what van said), and much like excuses and a-holes...everyone has one, but they definetly don't need to be shared. :yikes:

[selowitch]

Originally posted by VAN
Selo, despite what you may have been told, you do not get extra credit for posting the same message twice. Not even if you use 2 different subject lines. :)

Guilty as charged. It was a classic case of overclick on my part (blame my satellite-based Internet access, a real clunker). If it will make you feel better, I have deleted the surplus post. And no, I am not trying to artificially inflate my post count. Sheesh.

And I apologize for the &quot;Bible Thumper&quot; remark. I had no idea you were Jewish. Perhaps &quot;Tora Tapper&quot; would be a more appropriate label? :D

No offense taken. “Torah Tapper,” indeed? Now that’s one I haven’t heard.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by rudedogX
Selo, do you absolutely need to have a post for every response to the arguments?

Relax. We’re all just having some fun here.

[JR Alberda]

I believe that in legal respects as soon as you buy an album you have full rights to copy it to make backups etc. no distributing it or selling it. I dont really give any care to that though.

If I enjoy the music I get, I probably buy the CDs after, did that for a bunch, Linkin parks, I mother earth, and alot more. Im sure that you, like everyone here, breaks many laws that you dont realize or maybe you do selo, when was the last time you didnt stop at a stop sign for 3 seconds? How about Jaywalking? Maybe you steal cable?, maybe you think that you are without crime, but I pretty much promise you that if someone took a look at your life you would have done a lot wrong, just like everyone else, even after your posts in this thread.

Please just stop telling people that they are bad for doing stuff, it is annoying. Now lets go grab a pint :cheers:

[selowitch]

Originally posted by JR Alberda
I believe that in legal respects as soon as you buy an album you have full rights to copy it to make backups etc. no distributing it or selling it.

That’s the status quo right now, but I must warn you: the music industry is trying to force the computer industry to make it harder, for example, to copy a CD, even (and perhaps especially) in this currently legitimate fashion. I disagree. There’s a balance to be struck here that honors copyrights and protects artists while not keeping me from enjoying my iPod, for example.

I’m sure that you, like everyone here, breaks many laws that you dont realize or maybe you do selo, when was the last time you didnt stop at a stop sign for 3 seconds? How about Jaywalking? Maybe you steal cable?

I don’t see how you could be sure of that at all. The difference is that I don’t go around *advocating* questionable activity, nor do my posts in themselves constitute a possible breach of ethics. The only things any of us on XBA know about each other comes from what we choose to post. That’s the only known quantity here.

Look, it is not my intent to judge anybody, nor do I seek to present myself as somehow morally superior to anyone. But since this is a community of Xbox users, I do think a healthy <i><b>debate</b></i> on the ethical use of technology is interesting and worthwhile. If you don’t agree, then well ... block me or ignore me! Nobody is forcing you to read my posts, after all.

[JR Alberda]

Or you could just go to another place that wants to debate and leave all of us alone. I can assume the fact that you do something wrong because noone is without sin. You are not promoting a debate, you are nagging a debate would be if you posted a question, "what do you think", not when you go accusing people of illegal activites like you did in your first post in this thread

Quote
""MixMasta,
With all due respect, isn’t the whole point of IGN selling Insider subscriptions is that not everybody can get access to them?

Posting them here would be, IMHO, unethical and probably (although I’m not an attorney and I am not familiar with the law) illegal as well.
""
Just because you say with all due respect, doesnt mean you are giving MixMasta any respect at all. For example if I were to say: With all due respect you dumb twit, This is not an ethics forum. Go elsewhere to post your ethical messages. Now was that nice at all? No, and it was disrespectful.

XBA Moderators, please lock this thread down so we dont have to read any more of this. There is a forum for this stuff and it is not here.

[selowitch]

JR, is it really your contention that I have no right to object to somebody posting potentially illegal material on a community-based website?

I would like you to consider the tenor of my remarks. Notice that I have not resorted to <i>ad hominem</i> attacks; I have only objected to actions and ideas, not people for being people.

Let’s suppose you and I did actually agree on something that we both felt was inappropriate for this forum. Then somebody went and did it. Would you really object so strenuously to me if I then said something about that questionable action?

I’m ready to wind down this discussion, as it seems to be devolving rapidly. But my central point stands: The only way we can “enforce” (and I use that word advisedly) any kind of community standard for what is and is not acceptable, we have to speak up and give voice to our opinions. I’m not seeking to position myself as some kind of sage on high here. I’m just a guy with an opinion like everybody else.

I will not stand by silently while my fellow citizens systematically steal music and other content with no regard for the damage they do. It’s simply wrong, in my opinion. Maybe mine is not a popular message. But I think a lot of folks, underlyingly, suspect that I may have struck a kernel of truth.

[Wolfgame]

well i guess i started this all and im sorry but theres nothing to worry about the article i took my time to get here to give an idea of the game is gone now i wasnt tring to do anything wrong but I pay for IGN and ill show the articles to who ever i want.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Wolfgame
I pay for IGN and ill show the articles to who ever i want.
No, you will <i>not</i>! For crying out loud, Wolf, listen to yourself, already. Do you have even the faintest sense of how petulant and thoughtless you sound when you say that?

Read the agreement you reached with IGN when you subscribed. It specifically enjoins you for doing it in this manner. It's one thing if you show it a guest at your home. That’s within the “fair use” doctrine. But putting it out on a public Internet forum is specifically not allowed. And, in my opinion, it is wrong to do so even if it <i>were</i> technically allowed.

It is exactly this kind of obtuse attitude toward the consequences of one’s actions that I so object to, this disregard for the writer who wrote the piece, how he or she makes a living, and anybody else who makes their living from content (music, game programs, art, literature, etc.).

I challenge you to actually <b>read</b> the agreement for which you clicked OK.

[Wolfgame]

Look heres the steps I payed for IGN on my on cash and ahve axcess to whatever o nthe web site They have my money and are happy i have there content to do so as i please its the same thing with OXM i share my mag and post scores from what i get on forums. you wanta know why...cus its mine i basically own whats posted from the web site and by owning it ill do with what i please with it

[RudedogX]

Well said wolfgame. Also, selowitch, let me ask you this. I just got an MP3 jukebox which has 20 gig of memory on it. I've ripped about 175 of my OWN CDs on to it. Are you suggesting that by doing this, I'm stealing music? If that were illegal, then they wouldn't even be able to sell MP3 players, let along jukeboxes!:huh:

[Wolfgame]

quote from IGN insider agreement.


E). Content Restrictions. The IGN Sites attempt to provide some of the very best content available on the web and make it available to You on the Web for your personal, non-commercial use. All Web site design, text, graphics, the selection and arrangement thereof, and all software that are part of the IGN Sites are protected by international copyright laws. The publication, sale, or redistribution in any form or medium of text, photos, graphics, audio and/or video materials or any other form of proprietary content found on the IGN Sites is strictly prohibited without the prior written permission of IGN. Content that is publicly available on the IGN Sites may not be stored in a computer, except for personal and non-commercial use

[selowitch]

Originally posted by rudedogX
Also, selowitch, let me ask you this. I just got an MP3 jukebox which has 20 gig of memory on it. I've ripped about 175 of my OWN CDs on to it. Are you suggesting that by doing this, I'm stealing music? If that were illegal, then they wouldn't even be able to sell MP3 players, let along jukeboxes!:huh:

Definitely, absolutely not. Recall what I said earlier:

There’s a balance to be struck here that honors copyrights and protects artists while not keeping me from enjoying my iPod, for example.

Burning music you own onto a CD or MP3 player for your own <b><i>personal use</i></b> falls squarely under the “fair use” doctrine.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Wolfgame
quote from IGN insider agreement.


E). Content Restrictions. The IGN Sites attempt to provide some of the very best content available on the web and make it available to You on the Web for your personal, non-commercial use. All Web site design, text, graphics, the selection and arrangement thereof, and all software that are part of the IGN Sites are protected by international copyright laws. The publication, sale, or redistribution in any form or medium of text, photos, graphics, audio and/or video materials or any other form of proprietary content found on the IGN Sites is strictly prohibited without the prior written permission of IGN. Content that is publicly available on the IGN Sites may not be stored in a computer, except for personal and non-commercial use

Wolfgame, what is your reaction upon re-reading this agreement? I feel that the tide is turning in my favor.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Wolfgame
Look heres the steps: I paid for IGN on my on cash and have axcess to whatever on the web site They have my money and are happy i have there content to do so as I please its the same thing with OXM I share my mag and post scores from what I get on forums. you wanta know why...cus its mine I basically own whats posted from the web site and by owning it I’ll do with what I please with it
I appreciate what you’re saying, but I still have to demur. The trouble is, you <b><i>don’t</i></b> own that material, despite what you may assume.
While it is true that, yes, you own that individual magazine for you to use as you wish, nevertheless you do not possess the right of redistribution.
Please, read the licensing agreement you assented to with IGN. I think you will find that it vindicates my position.

[CrazyCougar]

Okay, obviously this thread went way off course. I wanted to hear about Clones. Oh well, closed.