PDA

View Full Version : doa3 and 1080i



NateMan900
12-17-2001, 02:21 AM
Hello all, i have just bought doa3 for xbox im having trouble getting doa3 to be in 1080i but when i click the tv remote it says 480p or tv is hd ready can anybodyhelp me out with this problem

please e-mail me at nateman900@aol.com
thanks

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 02:41 AM
DOA3 and every game released for the xbox so far only support 480p. No 1080i support yet and no announcement of any games that will support it yet. So we can only wait and hope. sorry.

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 02:47 AM
then why are people saying that doa3 can be played in 1080i res and that u canplay games in 1080i res with the hi res pack?

e-mail me back
nateman900@aol.com

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 02:54 AM
You can't and they aren't unless they are using an external scaler or line doubler. The HD pack just gives you component output and DD but will support 1080i once and if it comes.

DOA3 is a 16x9 title though so that is at least nice. I wish all games had widescreen support.

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 03:26 AM
so your saying theres no way to get 1080i on doa?
and whats dd?

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 03:33 AM
No, not without an external line doubler or scaler. It wouldn't be the same anyway. As is the game is only 720x480p.

DD is Dolby Digital. The HD kit and Advanced kit give you an optical connector that you can run to a receiver and get true DD 5.1 sound from. Also works for DTS sound in movies.

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 03:36 AM
could i buy an external line doubler and how much woul d it cost?

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 03:38 AM
Over a grand and not worth it for this use. :)

Just enjoy the game man. DOA3 is one of the best looking xbox titles to date.

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 03:41 AM
ya but it would probly look better in 1080i

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 03:44 AM
Maybe, but I doubt it would be noticable. Infact you could end up with unwanted artifacts and thus making it look worse.

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 03:49 AM
unwanted artifacts like what?

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 03:54 AM
Bad pixels, distorted lines, more jaggies, moiring or color bleeding, bending.

The basis is that the game is only rendered at 480p and that is what gets sent out. Going to 1080i via a linedoubler wouldn't be adding any new information, just takeing what is there and effectively doubling it.

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 03:59 AM
oh ok i think, but the thing i just dont get is why are some sites saying that u canplay doa3 in1080i mode it just doesnt add up

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 04:10 AM
Simple answer, the sites are lying or just don't know what they are talking about. Heck even some of the gaming magazines don't have their info straight. So many of them are saying games are High Definition and widescreen when they aren't. None are HD and only a handfull are widescreen. Xbox Nation magazine says that with the HD pack all games show a widescreen image. Completely made up. Next Gen's list is also innacurate. Seems like no one knows if a game supports widescreen or not until they actually try it. It would help if the games would actually say what they support on the box. It is kinda rediculous if you ask me.

Hugh_Jass
12-17-2001, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Lynxfx
Bad pixels, distorted lines, more jaggies, moiring or color bleeding, bending.

The basis is that the game is only rendered at 480p and that is what gets sent out. Going to 1080i via a linedoubler wouldn't be adding any new information, just takeing what is there and effectively doubling it.

I don't have any of these problems with my scaler and mine is nowhere near top of the line. However, I wouldn't worry about it unless you're using a projector.

http://www.avxi.com/Products/Crystalimage/Crystalimage.html

NateMan900
12-17-2001, 04:09 PM
so would this thing make u get 1080i on doa3?

LynxFX
12-17-2001, 04:42 PM
Wow Hugh_Jass, nice scaler. :)

I didn't mean to imply that you would get these problems with a scaler but I have heard people speak of these problems from time to time. I haven't used one personally though.

Do you agree though that for Nateman this wouldn't be worth it, especially just for the xbox? I could see if he already had one, like you do. If you got it, use it. :)

XboxChump
12-17-2001, 07:08 PM
Hey hugh i told ya the games ar all 480p..

robnyack
12-17-2001, 08:02 PM
you would not want to see a game in 1080i unless the game was designed to be viewed in 1080i. As another poster was saying, you would be able to see artifacts and other unwanted uglies.

No games have been announced to be made for 1080i...YET.

But, that's the beauty of xbox....there is still so much to come!!!!!

Hugh_Jass
12-17-2001, 08:12 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't get a scaler just for the XBOX unless you have a projector and a screen over 80". Of course, if you also plan to use the XBOX as a DVD player...well, let your budget be your guide.

The reason I say this is because the flaws within the image get larger as the picture gets larger. The scaler serves to smooth out the rough spots. It doesn't add resolution, per se. If you've ever seen a standard TV broadcast on a big screen you start to notice dark lines in the image. A scaler removes those lines because it matches the resolution of the source with the resolution of the projector/monitor.

So, for me, every game is shown at 768p. If I had a nicer projector the scaler would enhance the image even further. Technically, my scaler on an HDTV would make every game 1080p. But don't mistake game resolution with projector/monitor resolution.

My scaler will also down-convert a true 1080i signal to 768p. It works both ways.

robnyack
12-17-2001, 08:15 PM
there are some confusing terms out there concerning digital TV.

for a while "digital TV", "SDTV (standard definition TV)", and "HDTV" (high definition TV) were tossed around interchangably. But standards were set a year or two ago that clearly classified each one and forced compainies to stop saying one when meaning the other.

Standard definition is 480p

High Definition TV is 1080i or 720p

digital TV covers the whole spectrum.


480p is the best you can get without actually having true HDTV.

If you have a progressive scan dvd player hooked up to a digital TV, you can view dvds in 480p. It's a step up from a normal dvd player which displays 480i.

All of this only matters if you have a digital TV. If you have a analog TV, all you can display is 480i.

monkeyman
12-17-2001, 08:30 PM
just play without one

NateMan900
12-18-2001, 02:18 AM
so your saying 480i is better than 1080i?

XboxChump
12-18-2001, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by Hugh_Jass
Yeah, I wouldn't get a scaler just for the XBOX unless you have a projector and a screen over 80". Of course, if you also plan to use the XBOX as a DVD player...well, let your budget be your guide.

The reason I say this is because the flaws within the image get larger as the picture gets larger. The scaler serves to smooth out the rough spots. It doesn't add resolution, per se. If you've ever seen a standard TV broadcast on a big screen you start to notice dark lines in the image. A scaler removes those lines because it matches the resolution of the source with the resolution of the projector/monitor.

So, for me, every game is shown at 768p. If I had a nicer projector the scaler would enhance the image even further. Technically, my scaler on an HDTV would make every game 1080p. But don't mistake game resolution with projector/monitor resolution.

My scaler will also down-convert a true 1080i signal to 768p. It works both ways.

768p is a new one on me?????????

DOOM
12-18-2001, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by NateMan900
so your saying 480i is better than 1080i?
No, Better Resolution Is Better. But If The Game (Or Your TV) Has No Support for it, There Is No Point. You Need A High Def TV With Quad/double Line Capability Which Is Able to Display High Resolution. Before Fsaa Pepole Just Boosted The resolution To ShRiNk Those Jaggies Down To Nothing. Higher Resolution = Clearer Picture! The Higher The # The Better!

robnyack
12-18-2001, 10:03 AM
so your saying 480i is better than 1080i?

no, absolutely not. 480i is what you get from your regular ol analog TV set.

1080i is true high definition TV (HDTV).

But, you can have a game that was made for 1080i display (which there is none right now) and it wouldn't mean squat if you have an analog set.

And visa versa, if you have a HDTV set that can display 1080i, but are playing a game that was made for 480p (progressive scan), then the game will be displayed in 480p, not 1080i.

You must have a HDTV set and you must have a game that was made to display 1080i or it's all for naught.

Msterrrr
12-18-2001, 10:18 AM
i was all set on getting a HDTV till I read this thread,, will HDTV make xbox games look better? if not i could get a larger standard tv for the same amount ,,32" HDTV ,,or 36" standard?

kirkyg
12-18-2001, 11:35 AM
not sure about the unwanted artifacts...just compare higher resolutions on computer games like half life and quake3 its the same concept. It WILL look better...when they support it. Your xbox does support 1080i though so that means whenever developers start taking advantage of it you will be able to use an HDTV and your xbox and that game to play on 1080i...

kirkyg

Hugh_Jass
12-18-2001, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by XboxChump


768p is a new one on me?????????


As I said, the scaler matches the resolution of the source to the resolution of the projector. 768 is the resolution of the projector. It looks slightly better than 720 but not quite as good as 1080. By the time I start caring about HDTV (2006?) maybe I'll need to buy a new projector. :)

Hugh_Jass
12-18-2001, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Msterrrr
i was all set on getting a HDTV till I read this thread,, will HDTV make xbox games look better? if not i could get a larger standard tv for the same amount ,,32" HDTV ,,or 36" standard?

If the game was designed for 720 or 1080, then HDTV will make the game look better. If it wasn't designed for the higer resolutions then it will only look marginally better.

Msterrrr
12-18-2001, 12:43 PM
so till these games come up to the x-box full potential at 1080,, having a HDTV isnt really worth it,,
is that the same for the HDTV def, pack ive seen people say it makes a worlds of difference,,

NateMan900
12-18-2001, 02:30 PM
but what im saying is our tv is hd ready and i think our tv suports 1080i but i cant get doa3 to go in1080i i read somewere onthe net that doa3 is supose to suport 1080i and i have the high res pack and it doesnt seem to go put doa3 in1080i like it says onthe net please help me out here

robnyack
12-18-2001, 06:07 PM
i was all set on getting a HDTV till I read this thread,, will HDTV make xbox games look better? if not i could get a larger standard tv for the same amount ,,32" HDTV ,,or 36" standard?

I can't imagine why someone would buy an analog set if they were going to buy a new TV set.....especially at this point and time. You really need to think about that. Everything is going digital. Broadcast networks are going to have to start broadcasting an increasing % of their programming in HDTV starting in 2003 until it's all HDTV broadcast.

To buy an analog set would, in my opinion, by a penny wise, a pound foolish (or whatever that stupid saying is!). You need to look ahead a bit.

If you are buying a new TV, go digital.....and don't go into it w/o the facts. Do alot of research and find out what's what. The difference between a digital TV and an analog TV is night and day. No comparision. Digital is the much noticiably better picture.

As for xbox and hi-def, there is a noticable difference between looking at a 480p (prograssive scan) game on digital TV than on an analog. Analog set CANNOT display at 480p. So, the game even though was developed to be displayed in 480p will be displayed in 480i on a analog set. That is a HUGE difference.

LynxFX
12-18-2001, 06:10 PM
Nate,

DOA3 doesn't support 1080i. It will never support 1080i. Right now no game supports 1080i or will support 1080i. 480p is it for now and you need a digital tv or hdtv to take advantage of that which is a world of difference on a big screen compared to 480i.

The game will have to be designed with 1080i support.

Msterrrr
12-18-2001, 06:28 PM
thx a bunch rob :cool:
i was leaning towards the Samsung 32" DynaFlat HDTV anyway
christmas wasnt here now id run out and get one!! ,,,today,,,,,

product features


Faithfully reproduces sources up to 1080i (or 480p) for a true high-resolution image (optional set-top box required to receive digital signals)

Vertical compression circuitry retains full resolution of 1080i and 480p sources when displayed in a 16:9 letterbox format — exceeding prescribed standards for HDTV display capability

Pro Chip progressive-scan line-doubling system upconverts 480i (NTSC) sources to 480p display, dramatically improving picture quality from analog interlaced signals

4:3 DynaFlat dark-tint CRT with Surface Matte antireflexive/antistatic coating for clear, distortion-free images with minimal reflection of ambient light

3D Y/C digital comb filter minimizes edge artifacts and improves transition detail

Scan velocity modulation reduces blurring and ghosting for sharply defined images

Invar shadow mask and multifocus electron gun for brilliant, sharp images with excellent color purity

Advanced translucent on-screen display provides easily readable icons and text that won't obscure the picture

DVD/DTV wideband component video input for use with digital set-top box or DVD; accepts 480i, 480p and 1081i sources

30-watt stereo audio system with dbx noise reduction, SAP capability and user-adjustable EQ

2 S-video inputs (1 front, 1 side), 4 A/V inputs (3 rear, 1 side), 1 audio output and stereo headphone output

Includes universal TV/VCR/DVD/cable remote

i love to copy and paste if you cant tell
:p :p

NateMan900
12-18-2001, 07:37 PM
All I know is I read a review somewhere, either in a magazine or on the internet and they were talking about how good DOA3 looked at 1080i on the xbox. If I can find it again I'll post it here, but were they smokin dope or what???:confused:

DBXNY
12-18-2001, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by NateMan900
All I know is I read a review somewhere, either in a magazine or on the internet and they were talking about how good DOA3 looked at 1080i on the xbox. If I can find it again I'll post it here, but were they smokin dope or what???:confused:

Either they were scaling the image to 1080i using an external scaler (which I doubt, but possible), or they were smokin dope/confused as you said. DOA3 itself, as well as all other currently released XBox games, only offers up to 480p in 16:9 aspect ratio.

DB:)

P.S. that is DOA3 offers 16:9 aspect ratio. Not all the games are in this ratio as well.

Hugh_Jass
12-18-2001, 08:03 PM
The HDTV deadline has been bumped out to 2006, BTW.

NateMan900
12-18-2001, 08:22 PM
OK, here it is from Zdnet, who one would think would know what they were talking about. Evidently not.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/reviews/rstories/0,3040,e7111368,00.html

"Video enthusiasts will appreciate that the Xbox works not only with standard 4:3 TVs but with HDTVs as well. If you have an HD-ready set, you can set the Xbox to output 480p, 720p, and 1080i signals in either normal or wide-screen (16:9) aspect ratios for your games. Stepping up from 480p to 1080i on Dead or Alive 3, we found that jagged lines were virtually wiped clean in 1080i. A nice complement to this visual horsepower is the fact that the Xbox can decode 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound and deliver 256 simultaneous voice channels -- previously unheard of in a game system. All of this adds up to some of the richest, most realistic experiences we've seen in video games."

At any rate, the game looks awesome at 480p on a 46" wide screen HDTV. Will look forward to seeing any games at 720p or 1080i if and when they come out.
:cool:

NateMan900
12-19-2001, 12:59 AM
is anybody ganna say anything about this thing on zdet thatsays u can get 1080i on doa? what do u guys think about this?

LynxFX
12-19-2001, 01:15 AM
Sorry but ZDnet has it wrong. Usually their stuff is right on...about computer stuff. My guess is that they hooked up an HDTV, set the xbox to support 480p 720p 1080i and when it ran just figured it was 1080i.

Hell Next Gen magazine said that with the HD kit all games support HD and widescreen. Talk about a game magazine not knowing suzy from suzy-Q.

DBXNY
12-19-2001, 12:36 PM
Nate,

It hard to say whether their statement is wrong or not. What they get on the HDTV screen, doesn't necessarily specify whether DOA3 game disc supports 1080i or not. What we do know, is that the highest resolution stored on the DOA3 disc is 480p, not 1080i. It's still possible for them to use an external scaler to upconvert that 480p to 1080i, thus making their statement accurate.

kirkyg
12-19-2001, 01:15 PM
yea thats probably what they did.

kirkyg

LynxFX
12-19-2001, 02:42 PM
The problem I have with the UK reviewer at ZDnet is that they didn't specify that they used a scaler. They simply said that they switched from 480p to 1080i. This is impossible since the game does not support 1080i. So I think the whole story is alot of misinformation by someone that doesn't have a clue or just doesn't understand the difference. It could just be a simple mistake on their part but a major one at that.

kirkyg
12-19-2001, 04:02 PM
the question is how much does a scaler cost?

kirkyg

LynxFX
12-19-2001, 06:28 PM
Well ask Hugh_Jass. He has one that lists for $2500.

Hugh_Jass
12-19-2001, 06:55 PM
I think I paid $1500 for it--a heckuva deal.

LynxFX
12-19-2001, 07:49 PM
See, Hugh_Jass is saving you a $1000 already. :D

NateMan900
12-20-2001, 01:45 AM
lynxfx u have a theater in your house?

LynxFX
12-20-2001, 02:19 AM
No, in an apartment. :) Basically my living room has been turned into a media room. I would love to have a true dedicated theatre but that will have to wait until I get a house....quite a ways off.

NateMan900
12-20-2001, 02:21 AM
thats still pretty cool that you have that wish i had something like that in my house

LynxFX
12-20-2001, 02:28 AM
Yeah it actually wasn't that expensive. About the price of a mid range HDTV rearprojection tv. And that is for the whole setup, screen, projector, receiver, speakers, htpc. It was alot of work though, but all fun. :)