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Stormlord
08-16-2003, 05:09 PM
Just wondering what you guys think Bungie is doing to Halo 2. They delayed it and said it was to implement everything they want in it. I think that they're trying to beef up the texturing and bump mapping. After E3 everyone knows the Halo series is no longer the best looking one. Also I believe that they're improving the lighting system. Look at Splinter Cell, without the lighting it wouldn't look so hot. Well post whatever you thinking they're heavily trying to improve or implement. :cheers:

Ninja Scroll
08-16-2003, 05:43 PM
Halo2 was never delayed. Industry insiders, gamers, fansites, game shop sites (eb, gamestop, ect.) all assumed it was coming out 3rd/4th quarter 2003.

But Bungie never said anything official or on any of those lines.

www.bungie.net is da best place to get accurate info on Halo2's progress.

And it's "officially" coming out 1st quarter 2004. Bungie said dat, so you can take dat to da bank junior!;)

XboxResearcher
08-16-2003, 05:52 PM
I think Bungie and Microsoft may attempt to create huge environments for 32 players. Right now the max for most Xbox Live games are 16 players on one stage. Halo 2 is going to be Microsoft's biggest seller of 2004 going into 2005, and I think they want to push the limits. They are probably getting their dedicated servers ready, or more like testing them to see can 32 people play lag free on many of the environments with vehicles, etc.


Thanks
:)

Snoopy7548
08-16-2003, 06:08 PM
32 people would be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad awesome.:D :cheers: :cheers:

l Maximus l
08-16-2003, 06:15 PM
Well, we do know that Halo 2's textures, bump mapping, and real time lighting are going to set new standards for games to follow. Personally, I think the game looks breathtaking and strongly prefer Halo 2's graphics even over Half Life 2 and DOOM 3's graphics...but, that's just me. Don't get me wrong, the other two games look sweet, but, it wouldn't be Halo if the graphics looked ultra realistic.

I remember playing the first Halo and staring at the grass...it looks awesome. In Halo 2, they are implementing real time lighting technology. And, because of this, they can allow for destructible terrain... So, instead of hitting a tree with a rocket launcher and have it stay stiff, it's going to break and/or fall. Without real time lighting, you would see the shadow of the tree still in place while a tree fell over...but, not with real time lighting. It's going to rock!

Also, tons of new vehicles including different types of Warthogs equiped with rocket launchers, machine guns, etc...even a special warthog that can travel through snow effectively since it's equiped with tracks in the back. And, let's not forget the new ATV :D

The new implementation of entering moving vehicles is a HUGE addition to this game. No game has done it and no one can do it like Bungie.

Let's also not forget the new weapons including the double uzis...also, the ability to disarm your weapon or weapons so you can go into a sprint.

This game is going to own, especially on XBox Live. And, we can all know that Halo is going to run flawlessly, similar to MotoGP 1&2 does....Bungie will make damn sure it does.

l Maximus l
08-16-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Snoopy7548
32 people would be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaad awesome.:D :cheers: :cheers:

The maps would have to be extremely huge, if you ask me. I'm not a die hard fan of 16-player combat...unless it's CTF at BG and I'm playing "mid-field" while smoking everyone...but, even then, there's nothing like a 3v3 or 4v4 match to keep things competitive rather than chaotic.

Reclaimer
08-16-2003, 11:43 PM
What's Bungie doing? They're sitting on Halo2 waiting to release it at the right time. You just wait. The game has to be done. They've been working on it forever. Probably since Halo was finished they set out to make the sequel. I don't mean finished by being released. I mean Halo was most likely finished a long time before it was actually released, and it sat in a warehouse waiting to be deployed on the launch day of the first xbox. It's not like these things ship still warm from the distrubutors DVD burners. They meet deadlines and they wait until the proper time. So take that in effect and think that Halo was done well in advance of the launch of the xbox. Bungie set out for a sequel pretty much immediately, so you can figure, they just kept on programming while the first Halo was shipping out.
Imagine Halo being an experiment. Halo was supposed to be a different game for the PC, so they had to mad rush to get it out on a console, from what I remembered. So you take what you can and experiment working it into a new console format. So after the finishing date of Halo, they probably most likely took the notes they had and said. " We can actually do it like this now that we know what the working limits of the xbox are."
So, my assumption is that they had playable code for a long time. I remember seeing the photo of the dev team playing it. So all this time it's been in testing? Possibly? Still? Maybe. Wishful thinking would have it that it's done, and it's waiting to launch out with the Live 2.0. Or even the next anniversary of the xbox. It was never delayed if you think about it. There was just no date ever set, and all the hype took over. Hype is providing all the advertising this game ever needs.
Take a great game, give teasers of the sequel, put it on the tips of every tongue in the gaming business, but don't let too much out. This is all planned. At least that's how it feels to me.
You just wait until they release this game sooner than you expect. There would be riots in the stores. If it came out around Christmas, essentially unexpected.
There would be hype would shoot to astronomic levels even if the word just dropped from OXM or Bungie themselves that the game would be out November.
Is it the most anticipated game ever? You bet. People would freak out more than Christ's second coming at Britney Spears All Nude Half Time Superbowl show.
Everyone is waiting to see it. All across the gaming spectrum, all eyes are on it.

You just wait. I have a feeling I'm right.

xboxman_1
08-16-2003, 11:51 PM
What's Bungie doing? They're sitting on Halo2 waiting to release it at the right time. You just wait. The game has to be done. They've been working on it forever.

Hardly dude. They started on it sometime September/October 2001 I would assume, and that means its been developing for not quite 2 years. For a game this complex and advanced, I would hope it would take this long. I'm sure they arent done with it yet, and I'd also bet that all of these wishful thinkers and rumor starters popping up everywhere saying its gonna release Winter 2003 are wrong. 2.5 years isnt that long for an awesome game to be developed. I mean look at Duke Nukem Forever...;)

bluefire712
08-16-2003, 11:55 PM
There are a few things I'd really like to see in Halo 2 that'd make it amazing:

1) More monsters in campaign

For example in the Library level, the Flood got really boring after a certain extent. I want to see more "species" of monsters that are all different.

2) Xbox Live to the max!

I'm talking about 16-32 player games in lag-free gaming bliss! I think too many developers have thought that since Xbox Live utilizes broadband they don't have to cut down on the trasmissions and optimize their code. They're wrong. It should be really optimized for more fun and more people! I also hope it offers XSN or something similar with leagues and tournaments. Also I hope it has more multiplayer options regarding vehicles, map changes, voting (for booting, etc.). Online stats too! The works. :)

3) LAN (4 players per screen)

There are so few games with this as is. Does anyone know if LAN is confirmed for Halo 2 yet? Halo is so much fun with friends in the same room.

teenzine
08-17-2003, 12:11 AM
They're taking it to a small, dark corner to rape it. Shhh, don't tell anyone!

Peepers
08-17-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by teenzine
They're taking it to a small, dark corner to rape it. Shhh, don't tell anyone!

You are one sick puppy. :watchout:

Papke
08-17-2003, 02:17 AM
The thought alone of Halo2 is boner-inducing, and I almost can't stand the wait anymore....

Just wanted you guys to know my feelings, which probably resemble most of yours too.:D

Shadow20002
08-17-2003, 03:15 AM
I think they want to be sure this one will the highest score from every magazines, sites, TV show or any sort of medias. Mean make it the best one even surpass the first one.

No Fear 23
08-17-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Reclaimer
Halo was supposed to be a different game for the PC, so they had to mad rush to get it out on a console, from what I remembered. So you take what you can and experiment working it into a new console format. So after the finishing date of Halo, they probably most likely took the notes they had and said. Wishful thinking would have it that it's done, and it's waiting to launch out with the Live 2.0. Or even the next anniversary of the xbox. It was never delayed if you think about it. There was just no date ever set, and all the hype took over. Hype is providing all the advertising this game ever needs.
Take a great game, give teasers of the sequel, put it on the tips of every tongue in the gaming business, but don't let too much out. This is all planned. At least that's how it feels to me.
You just wait until they release this game sooner than you expect. There would be riots in the stores. If it came out around Christmas, essentially unexpected.




lol, if the crowds are gonna be like that, then i'll be packin heat. haha. neway, i wonder why bungie changed their mind from switching from PC to xbox?? did MS buy them out?

i honestly dont beleive halo 2 will be out this year. im sure bungie wants enough time to test it out to make sure it runs smoothly and see if they could add anything else in the game. i want it out now, but we just have to be patient and wiat bc we know the game will be awesome.

Koopa
08-17-2003, 01:00 PM
What do you think Bungie is doing to Halo 2?

they're making it.


I remember playing the first Halo and staring at the grass...it looks awesome. In Halo 2, they are implementing real time lighting technology. And, because of this, they can allow for destructible terrain... So, instead of hitting a tree with a rocket launcher and have it stay stiff, it's going to break and/or fall. Without real time lighting, you would see the shadow of the tree still in place while a tree fell over...but, not with real time lighting. It's going to rock!
link? i dont remember them confirming this, just saying destructible stuff, like vehicles, was being looked into. that tree scenario sounds more like a source engine thing than a halo engine one (i.e. materials will act realistically, so a wooden door will be destructible, not made out of unbreakable titanium). destructible terrain would kinda **** me off though...theres countless times where i'm using an indestrutible tree or rock as cover from a tank:D seriously though, destructible stuff would be great, within reason...just don't go overboard like in red faction, and make sure it has a good affect on gameplay.




You just wait until they release this game sooner than you expect. There would be riots in the stores. If it came out around Christmas, essentially unexpected.
wouldn't it be smarter to TELL people EARLIER that its coming out around xmas, so they can save money, get excited, etc. if its a surprise, less people know about it, therefore less sales.


lol, if the crowds are gonna be like that, then i'll be packin heat. haha. neway, i wonder why bungie changed their mind from switching from PC to xbox?? did MS buy them out?
yes. pc guys are really mad about this, understandably. we stole an awesome PC game, rushed it out on xbox, and make it exclusive. imagine uh ...EA or something buying out Lionhead and telling them that Fable has to be released in a month exclusive for PS2.



as for xbox live....as much as i love it, the 16 player max thing is unacceptable. On a PC game where net play is free, like CS or bf1942, you can get 32-64 playeres relatively lag free, with different types ofcpu hardware. theres no reason why xbox, with standard hardware and all BB, should have lag. we PAY for the service, the least MS could do would be to set up dedicated xboxs on T1s so we could play huge games.

Papke
08-17-2003, 01:12 PM
I know halo2 will be spectacular on LIVE, but I am most looking forward to playing multiplayer with a bunch of friends via system link. I CANNOT wait to blow someone off an ATV with a rocket launcher, or shoot down a trash-talking opponent while he hovers around in a banshee, especially when that opponent is one of my best buddies.

CTF on Blood Gulch with 8 people is probably the most fun I have ever had in my life. I only hope that the exuberant amount of joy provided by halo2 doesn't kill me instantly. :D

MerimacHamwich
08-17-2003, 01:22 PM
That's the thing. Live just eliminates the need for a lanparty. Instead of everyone hauling their Xbox stuff to somebodies house, you just hook up Live and meet your buddies online. It's like a LAN party without all the stinky sweaty teenagers.

wbio
08-17-2003, 02:35 PM
the maps would have to be huge for 32 players, but I'll be interested to see how big the maps are on pc,

Originally posted by Koopa
link? i dont remember them confirming this, just saying destructible stuff, like vehicles, was being looked into. that tree scenario sounds more like a source engine thing than a halo engine one (i.e. materials will act realistically, so a wooden door will be destructible, not made out of unbreakable titanium). destructible terrain would kinda **** me off though...theres countless times where i'm using an indestrutible tree or rock as cover from a tank seriously though, destructible stuff would be great, within reason...just don't go overboard like in red faction, and make sure it has a good affect on gameplay.
I'm pretty sure that destructible environment has been confirmed, which is gonna be sweet, I almost went out and bought red Faction 2 for this feature (but didn't)

I always get this weird feeling in my stomach whenever I talk about Halo 2:cool:

Urduhn
08-17-2003, 03:04 PM
they're making it.
I concur. :eek:

Koopa
08-17-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Urduhn

I concur. :eek:
the simplest answer is almost always the right one;)

mitch2025
08-17-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
That's the thing. Live just eliminates the need for a lanparty. Instead of everyone hauling their Xbox stuff to somebodies house, you just hook up Live and meet your buddies online. It's like a LAN party without all the stinky sweaty teenagers.

some ppl dont have broadband and their only other choice is a lan party so i hope that lan is also avalible to us unfortunate ppl who dont have BB:cry:

TheCovenant
08-17-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Koopa

the simplest answer is almost always the right one;)



Ahhh yes, Ahkims Razor ( i know thats not how you spell it).


Koopa refer back to the Egm issue where halo 2 is on the cover, there they explain the destructible terrain that you so admire. They say if an object is destroyable (like wood) then it can be destroyed. I dont know about anything as cool as that tree thing he said up there, but we all saw an entire building blow up in the demo video, so it is not so completely out of the spectrum. Your "precious" source engine has a lot of innovative things, yes, but you have to remember that it isnt unimmitatable. As all the "Red Faction" references...please, thats like refering turok evolution to half life 2.




Oh yea, i think this is taking major programming time. To accomplish just what they did in that demo was amazing, but theres a lot of testing they need to do, and the xbox live coding is not somehting that can be implemented in a day....or a year for that matter.



As for the whole "game is already done" theory, that is simply untrue. The game is being developed, as scheduled and it was delayed past a critical sales time in order to finish the project, to the point it was intended, almost like an artist painting for the sheer art, not so other people will like it. Bungie really knows whats up when it comes to games.:p

Peepers
08-18-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
That's the thing. Live just eliminates the need for a lanparty. Instead of everyone hauling their Xbox stuff to somebodies house, you just hook up Live and meet your buddies online. It's like a LAN party without all the stinky sweaty teenagers.

I disagree. Although Xbox Live has done a very good job minimizing lag, lag is still a big problem. The only way to completely eliminate lag (and have a much more social experience) is to have a LAN.

Koopa
08-18-2003, 01:59 AM
I disagree. Although Xbox Live has done a very good job minimizing lag, lag is still a big problem. The only way to completely eliminate lag (and have a much more social experience) is to have a LAN.
not true. there is little to no lag on many PC games with 64 players...the only time i get lag is because there's a fluke on MY end...I.E. my brother is downloading lots of porn or something and hogging my bandwidth. XBL has not done a good job of minimizing lag at all. the fact that it even exists in an all broadband network with all top of the line machines with only 16 players means that its not being addressed well at all.



Koopa refer back to the Egm issue where halo 2 is on the cover, there they explain the destructible terrain that you so admire. They say if an object is destroyable (like wood) then it can be destroyed. I dont know about anything as cool as that tree thing he said up there, but we all saw an entire building blow up in the demo video, so it is not so completely out of the spectrum.
the building blowing up was a scripted event farrrrrrr out of reach of the player, and in no way influenced by the player's actions.

i guess if egm said theres destructbile environment, i'll believe it. i just hope its as well done as the source engine does it.

Your "precious" source engine has a lot of innovative things, yes, but you have to remember that it isnt unimmitatable. As all the "Red Faction" references...please, thats like refering turok evolution to half life 2.
i didn't realize i owned the source engine! wow, i'm smart! im gonna go play with it right now!
/sarcasm
im not on any "side" here, im not a source engine fanboy, its not "MY" source engine.

BUT

the truth is, until I see any engine that performs as well as the Source engine, i'll stick by my Half life 2 hype. It's the most advanced, most scalable, most versatile, and arguablie most graphically stunning engine created...from what we've seen. I'll wait to praise it more once i get my hands on it in september.
as for red faction references, any discussion about destructible terrain is fair grounds for a red faction reference. Games like Halo2 and even half life 2 run the risk of having "geomod" as a useless gimmick, or, as some critics have claimed, becoming a physics toy.


by the way, i don't thing unimmitatable is a word.

Dictionary.com's verdict is....
no
inimitable is a word, though.
in·im·i·ta·ble
adj.
Defying imitation; matchless.

unimitable works, too

TheCovenant
08-18-2003, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by Koopa

not true. there is little to no lag on many PC games with 64 players...the only time i get lag is because there's a fluke on MY end...I.E. my brother is downloading lots of porn or something and hogging my bandwidth. XBL has not done a good job of minimizing lag at all. the fact that it even exists in an all broadband network with all top of the line machines with only 16 players means that its not being addressed well at all.



the building blowing up was a scripted event farrrrrrr out of reach of the player, and in no way influenced by the player's actions.

i guess if egm said theres destructbile environment, i'll believe it. i just hope its as well done as the source engine does it.

i didn't realize i owned the source engine! wow, i'm smart! im gonna go play with it right now!
/sarcasm
im not on any "side" here, im not a source engine fanboy, its not "MY" source engine.

BUT

the truth is, until I see any engine that performs as well as the Source engine, i'll stick by my Half life 2 hype. It's the most advanced, most scalable, most versatile, and arguablie most graphically stunning engine created...from what we've seen. I'll wait to praise it more once i get my hands on it in september.
as for red faction references, any discussion about destructible terrain is fair grounds for a red faction reference. Games like Halo2 and even half life 2 run the risk of having "geomod" as a useless gimmick, or, as some critics have claimed, becoming a physics toy.


by the way, i don't thing unimmitatable is a word.

Dictionary.com's verdict is....
no
inimitable is a word, though.
in·im·i·ta·ble
adj.
Defying imitation; matchless.

unimitable works, too



YOU HAVE THE SOURCE ENGINE! WOW! THATS AMAZ.....oh wait. You took my words out of context......funny.
Anyways, the source engine is fine and dandy but i dont think it is anything that can be....replicated...by our friends at bungie (note to koopa: im not REALLY friends with anyone at bungie, its just an expression). Although, you do have a point. Until Bungie reveals their "25 minute video", i guess they dont deserve your respect. I, and the legion of loyal fans, will follow blindly, sort of like you did with Gamecube (and see, that turned out alright).

Also, why is it that when anyone says anything about LIVE, you bring up how you have 32-64 player games on battlefield/warcraft/counterstrike/whatever, if you hate LIVE so much, cancel your subscription and dont go on anymore. Halo will make it to PC and your life will be bliss. For me, however, LIVE has developed a cult following of sorts, which I pertain to. I like voice chat, and i like hacker free games, and i like the controller...i grew up as a console fan.

And lemme see If im done here, oh yea. unimitatable. Man I must look very dumb for saying things like that. It would be arguablie the dumbest thing said in the entire thread, but oh, whats this?

Oh! I dont "THING" arguablie is a word either!
Hmmm according to the all revered Dictionary.com.......




No entry found for arguablie.

ar·gu·a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy--bl)
adj.
Open to argument: an arguable question, still unresolved.
That can be argued plausibly; defensible in argument: three arguable points of law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
argu·a·bly adv.


Arguably works too.:D

Tim
08-18-2003, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Papke
The thought alone of Halo2 is boner-inducing, and I almost can't stand the wait anymore....

Just wanted you guys to know my feelings, which probably resemble most of yours too.:D

Just for the record, I never got a boner from a video game. I am however, very much anticipating this game!

Koopa
08-18-2003, 10:02 AM
YOU HAVE THE SOURCE ENGINE! WOW! THATS AMAZ.....oh wait. You took my words out of context......funny.
that was sarcasm;) not misinterpreting your words


Anyways, the source engine is fine and dandy but i dont think it is anything that can be....replicated...by our friends at bungie (note to koopa: im not REALLY friends with anyone at bungie, its just an expression). Although, you do have a point. Until Bungie reveals their "25 minute video", i guess they dont deserve your respect. I, and the legion of loyal fans, will follow blindly, sort of like you did with Gamecube (and see, that turned out alright).
that analogy doesn't really help your arguement. you're implying that gamecube was a failure because i followed it blindly, yet that's what you intend to do with halo2:watchout:
and yes, i want to see a 25 minute video. I want to see their AI in action. I want to see their destructible terrain. I want to see their physics. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and have them top half life's engine, but i just don't htink it'll happen, mostly based on the fact that it's limited by the platform its on. It'll have great physics, great AI, great everything, but the fact that half life 2 is on PC and the fact that its been in the works for 5 years kinda gives it an advantage:D


ya know ive frequented a half life forum, and to them, my opinions are alot more moderate. when i made a thread about the big three (hl2, halo2,and doom3), many questioned why i even had halo2 on the list! kinda odd i think.

Also, why is it that when anyone says anything about LIVE, you bring up how you have 32-64 player games on battlefield/warcraft/counterstrike/whatever, if you hate LIVE so much, cancel your subscription and dont go on anymore. Halo will make it to PC and your life will be bliss. For me, however, LIVE has developed a cult following of sorts, which I pertain to. I like voice chat, and i like hacker free games, and i like the controller...i grew up as a console fan.
if you're satisfied with 16 players with lag on a service you pay for, thats fine. As a paying customer, i expect that a service i pay 50 bucks a year for should be better than one i can get for free. Live is great, but it can be better.

And lemme see If im done here, oh yea. unimitatable. Man I must look very dumb for saying things like that. It would be arguablie the dumbest thing said in the entire thread, but oh, whats this?

Oh! I dont "THING" arguablie is a word either!
Hmmm according to the all revered Dictionary.com.......





ar·gu·a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy--bl)
adj.
Open to argument: an arguable question, still unresolved.
That can be argued plausibly; defensible in argument: three arguable points of law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
argu·a·bly adv.


Arguably works too.:D
eh i noticed that after i posted, but I figured noone would get mad about a typo. i didn't notice the arguablie thing though, lol.

Stormlord
08-18-2003, 10:05 AM
Koopa why do you always have to mention the source engine? Did the almighty himself create this engine and handed it to the Valve team? You hype up on features already done in other games. You only make a big deal cause it's Half-Life. Halo 2 engine was created right from Halo 1's engine. Half-life 2 had nearly FIVE years to be created. Halo 2 hasn't even been 2 years in the making. I bet, that if Halo 2 just disappeared for years and people would forget about it, then Half-Life 3 would have the spotlight. But oh no, can it be? Halo 2 emerges with a brand new engine with cutting edge features (even though these features have been seen in other games, but it's just so pretty on Halo's engine). Most of the hype would be stolen from Half-Life 3 cause everyone was kept in the dark about Halo 2. If Duke Nukem Forever popped up with an extremely advanced Unreal warfare engine (on the same plain as Halo 2, Half-Life, and Doom III) all of the above would lose hype as well. Especially if they say it would be out in September.

And yes the Source Engine is a gimmick. What the hell does a mattress folding and swaying realistically add to the game? Nothing, except possibly using it as shield but that's usless cause bullets and nades rip right through cotton. The facial expressions will add emotion to the game but nothing else. Plus it's very lonely in Half-Life. Possibly in Half-Life 2 you won't see a lot of your friends thus not really making good use of this feature. There's other stuff but I don't feel like posting it right now. :D

xboxman_1
08-18-2003, 10:29 AM
I also disagree with Merimac...Live doesnt destroy LAN parties AT ALL. It doesnt put the person right in the same room with you...and its not just the trash talk factor. Its just a whole lot better when you know everyone personally...I dont mean some guy you met on the forums.

E Nomini Patri
08-18-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Maximus-XBA
I'm not a die hard fan of 16-player combat...unless it's CTF at BG and I'm playing "mid-field" while smoking everyone...but, even then, there's nothing like a 3v3 or 4v4 match to keep things competitive rather than chaotic.

Hey Max, remember that in Halo 2, it isn't just wimpy little capture the flag, it's going to be war! The multiplayer will be akin to Halo's single player campaign, but with people controlling the characters. Does that change your perspective? Personally, I really look forward to that :)

PapaSKooT
08-18-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Reclaimer
I mean Halo was most likely finished a long time before it was actually released, and it sat in a warehouse waiting to be deployed on the launch day of the first xbox. It's not like these things ship still warm from the distrubutors DVD burners. They meet deadlines and they wait until the proper time.

Actually, Bungie came down top the wire with halo, putting some finishing touches and tweaks on it within the last months before it's release. If you can somehow get your hands on a XBN magazine with "Dead to Rights" on the cover, read the Halo article in there.

xboxman_1
08-18-2003, 02:17 PM
Hey Max, remember that in Halo 2, it isn't just wimpy little capture the flag, it's going to be war! The multiplayer will be akin to Halo's single player campaign, but with people controlling the characters. Does that change your perspective? Personally, I really look forward to that

Thats what they said a long time ago...that the multi would be what they wanted to do in Halo 1, massive battles online. But lately they havent said much about that, leading me to believe they either dropped it, or online it'll be co-op, in other words, humans wont be playing all the bad guys. Like 16 marines vs. a bunch of elites, only the computer controls the elites or something.

Snoopy7548
08-18-2003, 02:48 PM
they should have multiplayer missions... like one thing could be multiplayer (on xbl) co-op. that would rock. and another thing could be like, 10 vs. 10. and it would be a regular mission on a regular level. 10 people could be the covenant, and 10 people could be the humans. and it would be the same exact thing as playing a mission, except you're doing it against real people instead of AI. and both sides have objectives and stuff. that'd be really awesome.:)

TheCovenant
08-18-2003, 03:54 PM
that analogy doesn't really help your arguement. you're implying that gamecube was a failure because i followed it blindly, yet that's what you intend to do with halo2



what?:huh:

Thats exactly the oppsite intent of that analogy. Back when the three systems were announced, gamecube was ( as always) very secretive about their hardware. Most magazines announced the specs for each system, pointing out that most of the gamecube slots were filled with "TBA". The magazines proclaimed that it didnt matter what the specs were, nintendo had " LEGIONS OF LOYAL FANS" and that alone would make it reasonable for them to stay secretive about their hardware.

Now what i said was, you were one of those people who followed blindly into Nintendo, and then I said it turned out alright.....as in NOT A FAILURE!

therefore me following blindly into Halo 2 is like you following blindly into gamecube. Both were secretive, and i believe both will turn out alright:D (although in the eyes of many people, gamecube already has; i.e. Windwaker,Prime, sunshine, f-zero gx, resident evil......)




Do yo understand the analogy now?:cuss: :D :watchout:


P.S.
No more grammer checks, this is an xbox fansite, not an english term paper

Hugopolo
08-18-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by StarWarsFanMan


Hey Max, remember that in Halo 2, it isn't just wimpy little capture the flag, it's going to be war! The multiplayer will be akin to Halo's single player campaign, but with people controlling the characters. Does that change your perspective? Personally, I really look forward to that :)
Since when is 16 people WAR! I dont know about u guys but im not getting my hopes up on all this halo 2 live stuff until i hear some facts not a bunch of average joes building there own ideas from someone elses suddenly where the word "multiplayer" turns into full scale 500 people war

TheCovenant
08-18-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Hugopolo

Since when is 16 people WAR! I dont know about u guys but im not getting my hopes up on all this halo 2 live stuff until i hear some facts not a bunch of average joes building there own ideas from someone elses suddenly where the word "multiplayer" turns into full scale 500 people war


Have you played 16 player halo? that alone is very, VERY, hectic. if they can run a normal game of halo without lag, itll be bliss for me. Hell even if they can do it with 8 people it will be bliss. And they have already announed 16 players so im not hyping anything up past its due proportion.

And lan halo 2 wont suck. lan parties are still fun, but irrelevant if you have live, which as i understand, a lot of peope dont.

l Maximus l
08-18-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by xboxman_1


Thats what they said a long time ago...that the multi would be what they wanted to do in Halo 1, massive battles online. But lately they havent said much about that, leading me to believe they either dropped it, or online it'll be co-op, in other words, humans wont be playing all the bad guys. Like 16 marines vs. a bunch of elites, only the computer controls the elites or something.

Personally, I think that the idea of having a war-like combat in multi-player would deplete from the game. I mean, Halo 1 is so cool because everyone is the Master Chief...equally equiped, equal advantage and disadvantage...and it's easy to seperate the skilled players from the n00bs...

But, having that option would be pretty cool...though, I would likely never find myself nothing else other than the Master Chief, like a I predict will happen anyway :D

Peepers
08-18-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Maximus-XBA


Personally, I think that the idea of having a war-like combat in multi-player would deplete from the game. I mean, Halo 1 is so cool because everyone is the Master Chief...equally equiped, equal advantage and disadvantage...and it's easy to seperate the skilled players from the n00bs...

But, having that option would be pretty cool...though, I would likely never find myself nothing else other than the Master Chief, like a I predict will happen anyway :D


I agree. War like experiences can be good...to a point. But that's not what makes Halo strong. The equality of being mastercheif (everyone's the same) is a great thing. Class systems like those in GR and RTCW are cool, but Halo is something else. And it should stick to that path.

Koopa
08-18-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Stormlord
[B]Koopa why do you always have to mention the source engine? Did the almighty himself create this engine and handed it to the Valve team?
yes.

You hype up on features already done in other games. You only make a big deal cause it's Half-Life. Halo 2 engine was created right from Halo 1's engine. Half-life 2 had nearly FIVE years to be created. Halo 2 hasn't even been 2 years in the making. I bet, that if Halo 2 just disappeared for years and people would forget about it, then Half-Life 3 would have the spotlight. But oh no, can it be? Halo 2 emerges with a brand new engine with cutting edge features (even though these features have been seen in other games, but it's just so pretty on Halo's engine). Most of the hype would be stolen from Half-Life 3 cause everyone was kept in the dark about Halo 2. If Duke Nukem Forever popped up with an extremely advanced Unreal warfare engine (on the same plain as Halo 2, Half-Life, and Doom III) all of the above would lose hype as well. Especially if they say it would be out in September.
so does the fact that the source engine had 5 extra years have any impact on the fact that it's the best? does it make it any less spectacular given its long dev time? the good thing is that, unlike the Duke team, they didn't brag until they knew they had a product near completion.

And yes the Source Engine is a gimmick.
wow i guess realistic physics are just a fad, huh? I guess that's why Carmack's Doom3 team is deciding to implement some more physics stuff into their game.

What the hell does a mattress folding and swaying realistically add to the game? Nothing, except possibly using it as shield but that's usless cause bullets and nades rip right through cotton.
you're oversimplifying. i cant beliecve how many people can't see the opportunities this engine gives. the fact that EVERYTHING behaves as it SHOULD givees the player just that much more options, and immersion. as a gamer, i always boo to myself whenever there's a door thats unopenable, or a shelf thats unmovable, or a body that clips through a wall...kinda takes you out of the experience.

also, all the physics "toys" aren't the whole game. i dont think hl2 is just a physics toy, its a great fps with lots of physics "toys" implemented into it. it's not ONLY physics, its a great shooter AND physics. that can only help the game, not hurt it.


The facial expressions will add emotion to the game but nothing else.
you make it sound like taht's a very minor thing. games are ways of telling stories, and if you're too busy laughing at an NPC's face to pay attention, the developer isn't doing a good job.
the facial animation stuff also makes modding SOO much easier, as do most other elements of the engine.
quote]Plus it's very lonely in Half-Life. Possibly in Half-Life 2 you won't see a lot of your friends thus not really making good use of this feature. [/quote]
im starting to think you don't know much about the game...
first of all you've got your companion Alyx, who we can assume stays with you for awhile...you've got barney calhoun and a bunch of other rebel/fugitive/human fighter guys fighting along side you, as seen in the barricade streetfight video. even half life 1 wasn't a solo thing. you had scientists and security guards all along the way out of black mesa.

i think i'm gonna invite some hl2 fans (bigger fans than me) to come here and sort this out, they know more about the engine than i do.

SPARTAN VI
08-18-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Koopa

i think i'm gonna invite some hl2 fans (bigger fans than me) to come here and sort this out, they know more about the engine than i do.

I'd look forward to that.

But here's my standing on the Halo2 vs HL2 talks. I think I'd have more fun with Halo2, playing Halo1 for over 2 years (and climbing) tilts my vote in H2's favor. I know HL2 will have it's own unique experience, but I think I'd find myself booting up Halo2 over HL2.

Now, I could be wrong. For all I know, I could have more fun with HL2... if I was gifted with precognition, I'd tell you.
:p


P.S.
No more grammer checks, this is an xbox fansite, not an english term paper

It's "Grammar" :rofl: I'm just playing with you man. ;)

theotherguy
08-18-2003, 08:10 PM
hmmm, such ininformed, unhyped and fanboy-flled discussions sicken me (like doom3 vs. Hlaf-life 2)
the point is, halo 2 is a console game, half-life 2 is PC. you can not accuratley compare the two

so, just to go with the flow, ill post my own flaming, fanboy remarks
Horray for the koopa!Horray for the PC! Horray for Hal-life 2!
I've been hyping half-life 2 for quite some time now!
Half-life 2 owns, it will rock the gaming industry
I never liked halo, in truth, all i kept thinking was "god I wish this was more like half-life"!

Half-life 2 will be good for nostalgia, physics and gameplay
Halo2 will be some out-of-the-way console FPS wannabee..UNTIL it comes out on a PC!

All of you who say bad things about half-life dont know much about it, or you havent played half-life one, or you saw the halo2 video or whatever before seeing half-life 2

Personally, ive never seen any media regarding halo2, because frankly I DONT CARE!!!! I will never buy it, or ever get an xbox for any reason!

Half-life= greatest game of all time (or so says PCgamer) Half-life 2 will raise the bar, so wait until it actually comes out before bad-mouthing it gosh darnit!!

This has been a flaming, overexaggerated fanboy post from theotherguy, thank you, goodnight
Hope this helped ya, koopa

SPARTAN VI
08-18-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by theotherguy

Halo2 will be some out-of-the-way console FPS wannabee..UNTIL it comes out on a PC!


Don't get your hopes up, I doubt it'll come to PC.

Now, I'm a very loyal PCgamer, and I don't even have a top-notch rig. (550MHz, GF2... and anything else that went out with bell-bottoms) But, Halo is still the best FPS I've ever played. Yes, HL is the best PC game ever (according to my idols- the PCGAMER staff. GO VEDE!!!!) and I must've finished it as many times as I've finished Halo. The mods are always a welcome addition, but you don't rate a game on what it becomes after it's initial release (y'know, patch fixes, or just mods).

Both HL2 and Halo2 have PLENTY of potential, though HL2 obviously has more bells than Halo2 ever will... Anyway, if I could, I'd get Halo2 and Half-Life 2 on PC (if I could- meaning if I had the best PC available), I'd much rather play an FPS on my PC. :)

Koopa
08-18-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by theotherguy
hmmm, such ininformed, unhyped and fanboy-flled discussions sicken me (like doom3 vs. Hlaf-life 2)
the point is, halo 2 is a console game, half-life 2 is PC. you can not accuratley compare the two

so, just to go with the flow, ill post my own flaming, fanboy remarks
Horray for the koopa!Horray for the PC! Horray for Hal-life 2!
I've been hyping half-life 2 for quite some time now!
Half-life 2 owns, it will rock the gaming industry
I never liked halo, in truth, all i kept thinking was "god I wish this was more like half-life"!

Half-life 2 will be good for nostalgia, physics and gameplay
Halo2 will be some out-of-the-way console FPS wannabee..UNTIL it comes out on a PC!

All of you who say bad things about half-life dont know much about it, or you havent played half-life one, or you saw the halo2 video or whatever before seeing half-life 2

Personally, ive never seen any media regarding halo2, because frankly I DONT CARE!!!! I will never buy it, or ever get an xbox for any reason!

Half-life= greatest game of all time (or so says PCgamer) Half-life 2 will raise the bar, so wait until it actually comes out before bad-mouthing it gosh darnit!!

This has been a flaming, overexaggerated fanboy post from theotherguy, thank you, goodnight
Hope this helped ya, koopa

lol great overexaggerated, flaming fanboy post!


;)

MerimacHamwich
08-18-2003, 09:54 PM
My signature says everything.

l Maximus l
08-18-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
My signature says everything.

Personally, I think DOOM 3 is likely to be scaled down for the XBox...but, we all know Halo 2 won't...it'll be designed for it :D

Koopa
08-18-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
My signature says everything.

IF i had somehow played the doom3 alpha, I WOULD say that it was f-ing awesome!

but, IF i HAd played the alpha, i'd say i still want hl2 more:D

im not saying i have the alpha or anything....

MotleycrewL
08-19-2003, 12:30 AM
Ok, yes I am a devout HL 2 fan, and a long time cg artist; but I must say that all the Halo 2 fans here make HL 2 fans like me laugh a little. Of course you wold like an explanation, and here it is:

- First, and this is unarguable, I find it terribly hard to beleive how much you all hype Halo 2 and simply insist it will be better graphics, gameplay, and so forth than any thing we pc gamers have layed eyes on. Why do I and every other HL 2 person say you people are just, well, kinda dumb?? Because there hasn't been a SINGLE PEICE OF ACTUAL MEDIA showing off anything remotely resemlbing actual anything in Halo 2!! The only thing that you have is some (admittedly cool) cg movie that was shown at e3. This cg movie, is just that, A CG MOVIE!! No gameplay, no Hlao 2 engine, no rendition of how any of the game will look like. And for all the idiots who are about to respond saying "Hey, that is what Halo 2 is going to look like, duuhh..." no my friends it isn't, this was a short movie created with a 3d program (I beleive it was Maya they used) to give it a very sweet realistic action look, but ultimately you have nothing but the first game (which , well sucked in the face of any fps on the computer, especially Half life) to wave in our PC gamer faces.

- The other comment I usually hear is "Hey Halo 2 is DESIGNED for the X-Box, therefore its better because...???"
Because what??? Maybe because Microsoft now owns Bungie and wants to make a good game for there console. Do you think that by them designing it exclusivley for the X-Box it makes it way better than "anything like, ever...". The X-Box is third generation hardware compared to most high end PC's now and couldn't hope to render any Direct X 9 features (since it still has Direct X 8 on a relativley underclocked Ge-Force 3) or hope to put 2/3 the polygon count on the laughable 640 x 480 resolution of a TV screen.

- "Hey man, who cares about graphics engines and hyper realistic features such as physics and evocative emotions in NPCs, all that matters is depth and innovation of gameplay"
Very true point indeed, something I hope microsoft could learn these computer thingies they love so much. I just love the gameplay of twidling both thumb joysticks around in circles to try and move your character while not look like a stumbling drunkard. Oh and I can't wait when Halo 2 comes out with there SDK and levelmaker so that we can make maps and mods like counterstrike with the (guessably) awsome Halo 2 engine. Oh wait... we can't; once we beat the game that's it, oh thats ok, time to just click on over to multiplayer and jump into some 32+ player online action!! Oh but wait, I have to pay for a super cool service whichdoesn't let me play with very many people, can't compete with ping times of a computer have only the maps and weopans to play with that Bungie made. Bah, who cares about all those "computer, nerdy, geeky GIMMICKS, ill just watch this super cool Halo 2 trailer over and over again." Sure you console guys, you better steer clear of all them gimmicks.

Gosh, I'm sure Halo and its sequel will stay around a long time, and be endlessly replayable, way better than anything halflifes done. I mean gosh, it came out in 1998, and is still the most popular online computer game as of this second. Sheesh its user created mods that you can download for free, have become stand alone shelf products, and not just one: Counterstrike, Team Fortress Classic, Day of Defeat, and Gun Man Chronicles.

Anyways, I can go on and on and on and on.... and I probably will to defend the PCs dominance in basically everything that is gaming. For right now I will let all the Halo 2 fans muster up some good evidence (and not predictions or theories) on how Halo 2 will somehow conquer the "gaming industry" (totally two different meanings when refereing to PC and consoles).

Any

Stormlord
08-19-2003, 12:32 AM
Just how do facial expressions make it easier to mod? That makes no sense. The physics makes things real but you never know if Valve got a fat head and just made a game full of "toys" as you put it and you ended with a nice and pretty polished terd. Your just going on and on about the engine for the possiblities qith mods but aren't realising that if HL 2 needs a mod to survive then it wasn't the game it was made out to be. While you're saying "think about the possibilities with the source engine" other people are saying how cool is Doom III or Halo 2 going to be. Half-Life has about 8 millions users. I'd say a small portion acutally got HL because it was a good game and the rest got it for Counter-Strike. And I bet you that when the source engine doesn't fulfil your fantasy of ultra realism you'll come up with a lame excuse like, well too much realism doesn't do it for me.

I have played Half-Life and the story was very boring. The only thing that really got my attention was when the government wanted to "clean" up the mess. The ending wasn't even all that great either. G-Man (I though G-Men worked for FBI and not Aliens) offers you a job, you accept and then it goes black..............That's it? Say whatever you want about how the engine is so great but if the game is crap, then it's crap. I can't say Halo 2 will be better but if you haven't played either how can you say Halo 2 lacks anything? You're just another PC fan boy looking for a way to trash on one of the consoles' best games. Halo dethrones HL as FPS King. It raises the bar on what's expected from an FPS (actual gameplay and immersion and not "toys"). Unreal II couldn't even get the job done. PC has nothing over Xbox's Halo (except Halo PC), then Half-Life 2 just pops up. Don't hype up so much on Half-life, many Metal Gear fans had to learn the hard way on why not to hype a sequel so much. :D

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 12:36 AM
The same can be said for Half Life 2, Doom 3 and Fable and any other game that is going to be released. No one has any definitive proof of what will and what will not be in the final version of the game. That is unless, ofcourse, they are one of the lead designers on the game.

You admitted you are a devout Half Life 2 fan, so any devout Halo 2 fans out there have just as good of an opinion as you do. Opinion is not fact.

Personally I am looking forward greatly to all three games, that is Half Life 2, Halo 2 and Doom 3. However, seeing as I have played the Alpha for Doom 3 I am inclined to be more excited for it. I have seen what it has to offer in the early stages, and I was very impressed, now I can only dream of what the final version will be like. I know it will be good, becuase I can pretty much deduce that what I have played in the early version will appear in the final version, at the least if there are no improvements.

Stormlord
08-19-2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
The same can be said for Half Life 2, Doom 3 and Fable and any other game that is going to be released. No one has any definitive proof of what will and what will not be in the final version of the game. That is unless, ofcourse, they are one of the lead designers on the game.

You admitted you are a devout Half Life 2 fan, so any devout Halo 2 fans out there have just as good of an opinion as you do. Opinion is not fact.

Personally I am looking forward greatly to all three games, that is Half Life 2, Halo 2 and Doom 3. However, seeing as I have played the Alpha for Doom 3 I am inclined to be more excited for it. I have seen what it has to offer in the early stages, and I was very impressed, now I can only dream of what the final version will be like. I know it will be good, becuase I can pretty much deduce that what I have played in the early version will appear in the final version, at the least if there are no improvements.

So true. Hey can you really use shadows to your advantage? Some guys told me that you can switch off the lights wait in the dark. Even something about a power up that is really a demon possesing you. :cheers:

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 12:44 AM
I never tried to turn off any lights. Although, you could place lights wherever you wanted in the Alpha, but I am sure that has nothing to do with what you were talking about.

This powerup you speak of I have heard about, but have not experienced in the Alpha, it is something I heard will be in the final version. I think its called Berserk mode. Your guy gets sucked through a crack in the ground or something and disapears from the screen. He then emerges through a different crack as a skeleton, then flesh proceeds to encompass your body. From then on you have a fatal punch until the power up is gone. Well, that is my rather garbled memory of what I have heard. You might have super health and stuff too, and the details might be different in reference to the travel through hell.

Anyhow... GO DOOM 3!
:cheers:

Urduhn
08-19-2003, 12:44 AM
The simplest answer is almost always the right one.
Are you trying to say I'm a simpleton? Lol. Just kidding.

I might have to use that quote as a signature.

Of course, modified with the right punctuation. ;)

Stormlord
08-19-2003, 12:47 AM
Yeah while you're powered up screams of pain are coming out of your character and everyone becomes aware that someone is coming to kick their ass. :D :cool:

Koopa
08-19-2003, 01:42 AM
ok i'll take this one step at a time. first of all, motley crew, excellent post. there are only two things i don't agree with. the first is that the 2003 e3 trailer was in-game for most parts, and included in-engine cinematics, according to bungie and MS. so if you think they're lying, then uh...whatever.

also, the xbox pad isn't anywhere near as bad as you say it is for controlling your character in an FPS.


next on the hitlist.


ust how do facial expressions make it easier to mod? That makes no sense.
more proof that you know nothing about half life 2. users can input a wav speech file and the engine will automatically create facial expressions for the speech, regardless of language or accent. alot easier than manually coding expressions, huh?


The physics makes things real but you never know if Valve got a fat head and just made a game full of "toys" as you put it and you ended with a nice and pretty polished terd. Your just going on and on about the engine for the possiblities qith mods but aren't realising that if HL 2 needs a mod to survive then it wasn't the game it was made out to be.
not at all. I'm saying how half life 2 uses these great physics "toys" for its own game, and makes them easy for modders to use to extend the life of the game. Without modding, game communities die. I've seen it happen to too many games....black and white for example...and now even battlefield 1942. modders are seeing how much mor ecan be done with source and are porting projects to it. because of this, five years from now, bf1942 will be an oldie but goodie, and half life 2 will be still selling strong in mutliple GOTY and platinum editions or whatnot

While you're saying "think about the possibilities with the source engine" other people are saying how cool is Doom III or Halo 2 going to be. Half-Life has about 8 millions users. I'd say a small portion acutally got HL because it was a good game and the rest got it for Counter-Strike. And I bet you that when the source engine doesn't fulfil your fantasy of ultra realism you'll come up with a lame excuse like, well too much realism doesn't do it for me.

uh...what? half life was the "best pc game ever" and sold like mad. the reason CS was so popular was because it was modded on a mod-friendly, popular engine. and i don't really get what you're talkign about with lame excuses. any non-realistic things that are in the game are usually, according to gabe, "design decisions, not technical limitations." meaning, if they wanted, full geomod could be implemented, but a design decision was made not to, because it'd be to gimmicky.


I have played Half-Life and the story was very boring. The only thing that really got my attention was when the government wanted to "clean" up the mess. The ending wasn't even all that great either. G-Man (I though G-Men worked for FBI and not Aliens) offers you a job, you accept and then it goes black..............That's it?
okay. you're opinion > every gaming mag ever printed. i guess you're right, hl's story sucked.

Say whatever you want about how the engine is so great but if the game is crap, then it's crap. I can't say Halo 2 will be better but if you haven't played either how can you say Halo 2 lacks anything? You're just another PC fan boy looking for a way to trash on one of the consoles' best games.
i own an xbox, and am looking forward to halo2 very much. when you assume...


Halo dethrones HL as FPS King. It raises the bar on what's expected from an FPS (actual gameplay and immersion and not "toys").
half life came out 5 years ago. the fact that people still compare halo to half life proves alot, doesn't it?

PC has nothing over Xbox's Halo (except Halo PC), then Half-Life 2 just pops up.
theres a couple thousand PC gamers who'd be glad to kill you over that statement.

Don't hype up so much on Half-life, many Metal Gear fans had to learn the hard way on why not to hype a sequel so much. :D
the same could be said about hyping MS products...remember enclave? and kung fu chaos, and that chariot racing game, and tao feng, and kakuto chojin, and blinx, and whacked, and fuzion frenzy, and that on foot racing game...

don't get me wrong, i know halo2 will be great.

but, repeating the party line, half life 2, from what we have know so far, looks better to me. there's not much that can change my mind on the subject, and i doubt there's much me or any number of pc gamers can do to change anyone else's mind.

Flyingdebris
08-19-2003, 01:51 AM
Just how do facial expressions make it easier to mod? That makes no sense. The physics makes things real but you never know if Valve got a fat head and just made a game full of "toys" as you put it and you ended with a nice and pretty polished terd. Your just going on and on about the engine for the possiblities qith mods but aren't realising that if HL 2 needs a mod to survive then it wasn't the game it was made out to be. While you're saying "think about the possibilities with the source engine" other people are saying how cool is Doom III or Halo 2 going to be. Half-Life has about 8 millions users. I'd say a small portion acutally got HL because it was a good game and the rest got it for Counter-Strike. And I bet you that when the source engine doesn't fulfil your fantasy of ultra realism you'll come up with a lame excuse like, well too much realism doesn't do it for me. I have played Half-Life and the story was very boring. The only thing that really got my attention was when the government wanted to "clean" up the mess. The ending wasn't even all that great either. G-Man (I though G-Men worked for FBI and not Aliens) offers you a job, you accept and then it goes black..............That's it? Say whatever you want about how the engine is so great but if the game is crap, then it's crap. I can't say Halo 2 will be better but if you haven't played either how can you say Halo 2 lacks anything? You're just another PC fan boy looking for a way to trash on one of the consoles' best games. Halo dethrones HL as FPS King. It raises the bar on what's expected from an FPS (actual gameplay and immersion and not "toys"). Unreal II couldn't even get the job done. PC has nothing over Xbox's Halo (except Halo PC), then Half-Life 2 just pops up. Don't hype up so much on Half-life, many Metal Gear fans had to learn the hard way on why not to hype a sequel so much.

Facial expressions don't help make a mod? Your joking right? Have you never played a game and thought "my god this guy talking to me looks like a retarded puppet?" Anyway the facial expression technology auto lip syncs with whatever speech you input into the game. Meaning that more people can have more convincing mods.

Furthermore, saying that just because the game is made with modding in mind it means people aren't buying it for it's true purpose and therefor is inferior is complete bull. From what i have seen, halflife 2 will feature some very innovative gameplay and AI and interesting level design as well as character design. As far as i see it it has the makings of an excellent game. Saying that just because it supports a great degree of modification takes away from the game is like saying that giving something room for improvement and expansion is bad cause it should have been 150% perfect the first time and should be perfect at all times forever.

Mods add replay value for free. Halo has no mods, it is a great game but there is a finite limit to what you can do in it. Games with mods in mind have no limit, as long as a community exists the game is always expanded upon one way or another.

Since i don't have an xbox i will not be getting halo 2, i'd love to but i have no room in my cramped dorm for a tv. So i am restricted to pc games. and playing halo 2 on friends' xboxes. However I am going to get all the fancy new pc games i can get my hands on as games are not mutually exclusive to each other.

So in conclusion you dismissing key features that other games possess simply because you like halo 2 better. This is not a good philosophy. it prevents improvement. Rejoice in games for what they have, don't dismiss them because they possess new features your game of choice doesn't.

I am looking forward to playing halo 2 btw, even if i am not going to buy it due to my limitations.

SPARTAN VI
08-19-2003, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Koopa
ok i'll take this one step at a time. first of all, motley crew, excellent post. there are only two things i don't agree with. the first is that the 2003 e3 trailer was in-game for most parts, and included in-engine cinematics, according to bungie and MS. so if you think they're lying, then uh...whatever.

also, the xbox pad isn't anywhere near as bad as you say it is for controlling your character in an FPS.


next on the hitlist.


more proof that you know nothing about half life 2. users can input a wav speech file and the engine will automatically create facial expressions for the speech, regardless of language or accent. alot easier than manually coding expressions, huh?


blah blah blah blah

but, repeating the party line, half life 2, from what we have know so far, looks better to me. there's not much that can change my mind on the subject, and i doubt there's much me or any number of pc gamers can do to change anyone else's mind.

Not directed towards you Koopa Poopa, just wanted to quote you for the "blah blah blah". :)

Anyway, a few points I want to make:

I'd like to see MotleycrewL rip apart PS2 and GC if he loathes the Xbox this much.

And, Koopa and I are no PC gamer fanboys. We may lean toward PC gaming (more him than me... damn rich dude has a top notch PC :cuss: ) but we turn to our console for a different gaming experience.


Oh and I can't wait when Halo 2 comes out with there SDK and levelmaker so that we can make maps and mods like counterstrike with the (guessably) awsome Halo 2 engine. Oh wait... we can't; once we beat the game that's it, oh thats ok, time to just click on over to multiplayer and jump into some 32+ player online action!!

Partially true... there is downloadable content for Xbox games... so you will be able to download any new maps, weapons, or any other addon that the *original* developers have in mind. But yeah, there will not be any user-made maps, but that hasn't detracted from my Xbox Live experience, only the major case of LAG! :cuss:


Sheesh its user created mods that you can download for free, have become stand alone shelf products, and not just one: Counterstrike, Team Fortress Classic, Day of Defeat, and Gun Man Chronicles.

Well, most reviewers (more importantly, PCGAMER) don't review games or pass judgement on future patches/fixes/mods. So, I'm not going to say HL2 > Halo2 because of usermade mods/maps/anything else that tickles your gaming thumbs (or fingers...). But hey, Half-Life was great by itself, and became greater when CS rolled along, so no one can deny that addons prolong a game's life span.

Now, Stormlord... you show your ignorance when you point fingers at HL2's features. Physics, facial expressions, and anything else you can possibly overlook... Back in the DOOM 1 days, you could've been the person to frown upon DukeNukem saying, "OH! JUMPING?! What does that add to the game experience? OH! You could look up and down now! That's nothing!"... little things like that make the game more realistic. Someday, games will accurately mimic real life enviroments and all these little features that we look at as luxeries now, will be standard then.

Koopa
08-19-2003, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by SPARTAN VI


Not directed towards you Koopa Poopa, just wanted to quote you for the "blah blah blah". :)

Anyway, a few points I want to make:

I'd like to see MotleycrewL rip apart PS2 and GC if he loathes the Xbox this much.

And, Koopa and I are no PC gamer fanboys. We may lean toward PC gaming (more him than me... damn rich dude has a top notch PC :cuss: ) but we turn to our console for a different gaming experience.



Partially true... there is downloadable content for Xbox games... so you will be able to download any new maps, weapons, or any other addon that the *original* developers have in mind. But yeah, there will not be any user-made maps, but that hasn't detracted from my Xbox Live experience, only the major case of LAG! :cuss:



Well, most reviewers (more importantly, PCGAMER) don't review games or pass judgement on future patches/fixes/mods. So, I not going to say HL2 > Halo2 because of usermade mods/maps/anything else that tickles your gaming thumbs (or fingers...). But hey, Half-Life was great by itself, and became greater when CS rolled along, so no one can deny that addons prolong a game's life span.

Now, Stormlord... you show your ignorance when you point fingers at HL2's features. Physics, facial expressions, and anything else you can possibly overlook... Back in the DOOM 1 days, you could've been the person to frown upon DukeNukem saying, "OH! JUMPING?! What does that add to the game experience? OH! You could look up and down now! That's nothing!"... little things like that make the game more realistic. Someday, games will accurately mimic real life enviroments and all these little features that we look at as luxeries now, will be standard then.

well said. if games are gonna progress toward reality, they've gotta start somwhere. the source engine is a good starting point.

SPARTAN VI
08-19-2003, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Koopa


well said. if games are gonna progress toward reality, they've gotta start somwhere. the source engine is a good starting point.

Exactly my point. There's no need to look upon HL2's features negatively... looks kind of desperate to slam Valve for doing something different in an effort to make Halo2's monotonous engine look good...:eek:

wbio
08-19-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by MotleycrewL
Ok, yes I am a devout HL 2 fan, and a long time cg artist; but I must say that all the Halo 2 fans here make HL 2 fans like me laugh a little. Of course you wold like an explanation, and here it is:

- First, and this is unarguable, I find it terribly hard to beleive how much you all hype Halo 2 and simply insist it will be better graphics, gameplay, and so forth than any thing we pc gamers have layed eyes on. Why do I and every other HL 2 person say you people are just, well, kinda dumb?? Because there hasn't been a SINGLE PEICE OF ACTUAL MEDIA showing off anything remotely resemlbing actual anything in Halo 2!! The only thing that you have is some (admittedly cool) cg movie that was shown at e3. This cg movie, is just that, A CG MOVIE!! No gameplay, no Hlao 2 engine, no rendition of how any of the game will look like. And for all the idiots who are about to respond saying "Hey, that is what Halo 2 is going to look like, duuhh..." no my friends it isn't, this was a short movie created with a 3d program (I beleive it was Maya they used) to give it a very sweet realistic action look, but ultimately you have nothing but the first game (which , well sucked in the face of any fps on the computer, especially Half life) to wave in our PC gamer faces.
E3 trailer was mostly actual gameplay, maybe your thinking of the first trailer that came out. I find it funny how you seem to know so much about how it was created, but you're wrong about it. That was an actual level in Halo 2, not created with Maya. And believe me, there are plenty of PC FPS fans here at XBA, but almost all of them love Halo, so it doen't seem to have "sucked in the face of any fps on the computer", a lot of people like Halo much more than lots of PC FPS


- The other comment I usually hear is "Hey Halo 2 is DESIGNED for the X-Box, therefore its better because...???"
Because what??? Maybe because Microsoft now owns Bungie and wants to make a good game for there console. Do you think that by them designing it exclusivley for the X-Box it makes it way better than "anything like, ever...". The X-Box is third generation hardware compared to most high end PC's now and couldn't hope to render any Direct X 9 features (since it still has Direct X 8 on a relativley underclocked Ge-Force 3) or hope to put 2/3 the polygon count on the laughable 640 x 480 resolution of a TV screen.

- "Hey man, who cares about graphics engines and hyper realistic features such as physics and evocative emotions in NPCs, all that matters is depth and innovation of gameplay"
Very true point indeed, something I hope microsoft could learn these computer thingies they love so much. I just love the gameplay of twidling both thumb joysticks around in circles to try and move your character while not look like a stumbling drunkard. Oh and I can't wait when Halo 2 comes out with there SDK and levelmaker so that we can make maps and mods like counterstrike with the (guessably) awsome Halo 2 engine. Oh wait... we can't; once we beat the game that's it, oh thats ok, time to just click on over to multiplayer and jump into some 32+ player online action!! Oh but wait, I have to pay for a super cool service whichdoesn't let me play with very many people, can't compete with ping times of a computer have only the maps and weopans to play with that Bungie made. Bah, who cares about all those "computer, nerdy, geeky GIMMICKS, ill just watch this super cool Halo 2 trailer over and over again." Sure you console guys, you better steer clear of all them gimmicks.
If you have that hard a time using the thumbsticks, you obviously haven't played halo for very long. It is very easy to pick up, my PS 2 owning friends learned how to do it in 1 game of TS. Like someone said, there is downloadable content, which i will amit, is not as good or as plentiful as user made mods, but it's still not playing on the same old maps, with the same old guns, and even on Halo, the maps and guns still seem to be liked by lots of people, even after almost 2 years.

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 02:57 PM
Slamming one game to make another is not a good thing. Everyone of the big three (Doom 3, Halo2, and Halflife 2) are trying to come up with technology that will move the industry further ahead, and inturn, they will all do so. Despite your poeples flagrant attempts to choose a "better" and not look like fanboys you are all failing miserably. Each game has its own highpoint which will move the industry in a positive direction It does not come down to one game that will move the industry while the others are ignored. A ton of attention will be payed to all of the games, and developers will try to take the best of all the games and combine them into a new game that will push the industry even farther. The same can be said about consoles. The favoratism that is found in many gamers attitudes is sickening. It is definetly one of the most closed minded groups in the world. See each game for its positives and negatives, do not ignore one or the other.

I personally have found this discussion to have become moot since the arguements about Half-Life 2 and Halo 2 came about.

dances with broom sticks
08-19-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Koopa


lol great overexaggerated, flaming fanboy post!


;)


Yea, it reminds me alot of someone who used to post here.... HMMmmmm maybe he is still around. Have you seen him Koopa?
:D

:cheers:

SPARTAN VI
08-19-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by dances with broom sticks



Yea, it reminds me alot of someone who used to post here.... HMMmmmm maybe he is still around. Have you seen him Koopa?
:D

:cheers:

Haha

Are you talking about Koopa's GC fanboy days?

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by SPARTAN VI


Haha

Are you talking about Koopa's GC fanboy days?
Or about his new Half Life 2 fanboy days?

SPARTAN VI
08-19-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich

Or about his new Half Life 2 fanboy days?

Nah, he's not a HL2 fanboy, just a little more hyped about it's release than the rest of the big 3. I just know that everyone will have an...... orgasmic.... experience when the big 3 finally land on our laps.

:D

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 04:39 PM
From the way he speaks no other game will be worth his time, only Half Life 2.

SPARTAN VI
08-19-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
From the way he speaks no other game will be worth his time, only Half Life 2.

Yeah, but I believe it's because he thinks eveyone is under-hyping HL2 and over-hyping Halo 2. There were some comparisons between the two, and that might've set him off. :p

But yeah, he's crazy about the Doom3 Alpha... cause he DOES have it. He's crazy about Halo 2, and crazy about Half-Life 2. Since there is more footage on HL2, he got pretty hyped up. :)

dances with broom sticks
08-19-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by SPARTAN VI


Haha

Are you talking about Koopa's GC fanboy days?

I guess it was more obvious than I figured. I remember how much flaming he used to get, anytime he would walk into a thread it would be to bash xbox and praise gamecube.

Then they both came out, and he realised the err of his ways

Koopa
08-19-2003, 07:22 PM
I thought i was nothing but courteous in my earlier days. dig up older posts if you want. even fuzion, the mod at the time (thats before most of you noobs got here), offered me a mod position...which he had to later decline once he found out i was younger than my maturity made him think.


I personally have found this discussion to have become moot since the arguements about Half-Life 2 and Halo 2 came about.

then there's no need for you to post here. I don't need to read your high-and-mighty, self righeous posts, about how everyone else is biased and you have no bias at all about games, or read your insults and snide side remarks regarding a bias you think i have. i guess you have some sort of reading disorder, because i've never said anything about no other game being worth my time. in fact, i've REPEATEDLY said i'm looking forward to doom3 and halo 2. if you can't graps the concept of me looking forward to one game over another, and actually stating my opinion, instead of the politically correct "all games are equal" bull****, then i don't think any forum is the right place to go.

let me make this as CLEAR as possible for anyone else who either has a reading disorder, or won't take the time to fully read my posts.

I want halo2.

I want doom3.

I want half life 2.

I want half life 2 the most.

to explain why i want half life 2 the most, i have to show, in detail, why i think half life 2 will be good, as well as point out flaws in doom3 and halo 2. if you can't stomach me pointing out flaws in xbox or halo, then, again, forums are not a good place for you to be.

being a converted xbox gamer, you can be assured i love the system, so I'm no fanboy. the fact that i own and enjoy a gamecube, pc, and xbox shows that i have little to no bias, except toward PS2. I give the facts as i see them , and i don't appreciate anyone implying that my opinions are "sickening." and spartan, thanks for being the most logical person in this thread.

flame on.

dances with broom sticks
08-19-2003, 07:36 PM
Funzion came back awhile ago, and was posting under a different name. I have a few PM's from him. cyviking said that he is married and doesnt game at all anymore :(

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 08:17 PM
Koopa. You really should read your own posts. It would also be a good idea to read mine. I guess you can call me high and mighty if you want, but I never said that, nor have I implied it. If anyone, you are the person who thinks of themself as high and mighty. Most fanboys do.
:P

Koopa
08-19-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by dances with broom sticks
Funzion came back awhile ago, and was posting under a different name. I have a few PM's from him. cyviking said that he is married and doesnt game at all anymore :(
i think he came back for a bit and posted under the name aaron.
yeah, the last time i talked to him, he said something along those lines...i saw him on aim a few months back with the SN vivalanuge. gaming kinda fell waay low on his priority list, i guess. he was a cool guy for the time i knew him, though. cheers wherever you are!:cheers:




Despite your poeples flagrant attempts to choose a "better" and not look like fanboys you are all failing miserably.

note the "your peoples," implying that you're above this sort of thing


The favoratism that is found in many gamers attitudes is sickening
again, raising yourself above the "sickening level"

maybe i'm getting your message wrong, though. the mood i felt from these quotes, however, is one of superiority over "fanboys" like myself.

you've also provided little to no evidence showing how i fail to read your posts

and again, you have to fall back on snide side comments, like implying i'm a fanboy, after i've proven MUTLIPLE times how i've tried to be as unbiased as possible.

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 09:21 PM
Well, Koopa. I don't have to quote and pick apart. Simply go back in the thread and read through the posts, there is no use in repeating things.

Also, ofcourse I am saying I am not a fanboy. If you can find how my comments have been fanboyish, then please, tell me. You haven't proven how you have tried to be un-biased. Infact, several times you say something to hint that you like all three games, but then you turn around and contradict yourself. I will quote some things, even though I said I wouldn't.


not true. there is little to no lag on many PC games with 64 players...the only time i get lag is because there's a fluke on MY end...I.E. my brother is downloading lots of porn or something and hogging my bandwidth. XBL has not done a good job of minimizing lag at all. the fact that it even exists in an all broadband network with all top of the line machines with only 16 players means that its not being addressed well at all.
For one thing, it is a widely known fact that many PC games have lag. That is how the term lag was introduced into gaming, as PC's were the first gaming machines to venture into the online world. Your comments ignore that and make it seem like Xbox Live has more lag than PC games, which is untrue. The incorporation of narrowband internet automatically increases the number of instances on the PC where lag occurs.


It's the most advanced, most scalable, most versatile, and arguablie most graphically stunning engine created...from what we've seen. I'll wait to praise it more once i get my hands on it in september.

Is this not unjust praise? Something that fanboys often use? You have not actually played with this engine and yet you are already claiming it to be the most advance technology there is. Videos are not proof of anything, as was learned with Enclave.


you're implying that gamecube was a failure because i followed it blindly, yet that's what you intend to do with halo2Is that not what you are doing with Half Life 2? There are videos of both games. One video is not more proof than another.


mostly based on the fact that it's limited by the platform its on. It'll have great physics, great AI, great everything, but the fact that half life 2 is on PC and the fact that its been in the works for 5 years kinda gives it an advantage
HalfLife 2 is also limited by the platform it is being developed for. PC games cannot be developed for technology that does not exist. And the "fact" that they were developing it for five years brings this question to light, what kind of system have they been developing for in those five years. You cannot simply change your code when a new technology comes out, that would take months, not only to learn the new technology, but to change the code itself. We aren't talking like one or two lines of code here, we are talking thousands, if not millions. Same can be said for textures and other graphical things. You can't simply press a button to change the old graphics become compatible and work perfectly with the new technology. Granted, they most undoubtedly have changed some things for the new technology, but some things are without a doubt, optimized for a top of the line system that was around at least a year ago. If anything, Halo 2 has an advantage becuase the programmers can focus on the technology that it has, and on optimizing the game for that technology, as it won't change.


so does the fact that the source engine had 5 extra years have any impact on the fact that it's the best? once again stating false truths. Yes, it is your opinion, but it is not fact. After the game is released and extensive play has be had on all the games, then one could possibly state fact whether one is better than the others.


the fact that EVERYTHING behaves as it SHOULD givees the player just that much more options, and immersion. Yes, i too have had rumors that this is true. I also greatly want it to be true. But until you have played it, that cannot be stated as fact, just another rumour/opinion. Yet it comes out of you as fact, becuase you are the fact master!


also, all the physics "toys" aren't the whole game. i dont think hl2 is just a physics toy, its a great fps with lots of physics "toys" implemented into it. it's not ONLY physics, its a great shooter AND physics. that can only help the game, not hurt it. Oh it is the best out there is it? But, wait a second, IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET! So, how can that be? Oh, that is right, it can't be. It is just another opinion falsely stated as fact.


more proof that you know nothing about half life 2. users can input a wav speech file and the engine will automatically create facial expressions for the speech, regardless of language or accent. alot easier than manually coding expressions, huh? Ot would have been nice if you said that the developers are saying they are implementing that into the game, but I am forgetting, you are the fact master! Infact, you know just as much about the engine as anyone else, even if they know nothing about it. Everything you hear, until you play the game, is just rumour and opnion. *wonders how much more he is going to have to say that*


full geomod could be implemented, but a design decision was made not to, because it'd be to gimmicky.
So how is geomod gimmicky but this source engine is not? Are not both trying to make games more realistic? Do they not both achieve that same thing? If one is gimmicky, then so is the other as they are both trying to achieve the same thing.


okay. you're opinion > every gaming mag ever printed. i guess you're right, hl's story sucked.
Oooh, fact master is at it again! Claiming opinion to be an undeniable truth.


well said. if games are gonna progress toward reality, they've gotta start somwhere. the source engine is a good starting point. But the geomod isn't a good start? In real life does the ground not get a huge hole when you shoot a rocket into it?


I give the facts as i see them It seems you need to learn what a fact is.


Now, Koopa, I hope you see where I am coming from. You do say in spots that you are looking forwards to all the games. Then you turn around and start talking about how Half Life 2 is god and that no other game will be able to touch it for at least five years. In at least one spot you kind of bash the XBox even.

As for slander and snide comments, I made a few, yes, but you made tons before me, thusly, I felt it necessary to throw them back at you to let you know how those poeple felt whom you did it too.

Now I have to ask, do you not find favoratism sickening? If not, then how?

-edit-
I won't argue with you anymore over whether or not you are a fanboy or not. The pages in this thread and this post are all I need to prove the point I was trying to get across.

Koopa
08-19-2003, 10:01 PM
For one thing, it is a widely known fact that many PC games have lag. That is how the term lag was introduced into gaming, as PC's were the first gaming machines to venture into the online world. Your comments ignore that and make it seem like Xbox Live has more lag than PC games, which is untrue. The incorporation of narrowband internet automatically increases the number of instances on the PC where lag occurs.
well, given the fact that xbox live games only have 16 players, as opposed to the 32-64 players that most modern pc games have, the lag that exists is unacceptable.



Is this not unjust praise? Something that fanboys often use? You have not actually played with this engine and yet you are already claiming it to be the most advance technology there is. Videos are not proof of anything, as was learned with Enclave
my comments mirror those given by virtually all the gaming press, who pretty much said the seeing the engine in action was like seeinga game from e3 5 years from now.


Is that not what you are doing with Half Life 2?[following blindly] There are videos of both games. One video is not more proof than another.
20 minutes of in-game demonstrations are alot more to go on than a 5 minute trailer and a lot of hype.



HalfLife 2 is also limited by the platform it is being developed for. PC games cannot be developed for technology that does not exist. And the "fact" that they were developing it for five years brings this question to light, what kind of system have they been developing for in those five years. You cannot simply change your code when a new technology comes out, that would take months, not only to learn the new technology, but to change the code itself. We aren't talking like one or two lines of code here, we are talking thousands, if not millions. Same can be said for textures and other graphical things. You can't simply press a button to change the old graphics become compatible and work perfectly with the new technology. Granted, they most undoubtedly have changed some things for the new technology, but some things are without a doubt, optimized for a top of the line system that was around at least a year ago. If anything, Halo 2 has an advantage becuase the programmers can focus on the technology that it has, and on optimizing the game for that technology, as it won't change.
you're now simply talking out of your ass. here's a fact: pcs are generally more powerful than xbox. its not an opinion, and all that stuff about old technology is just you trying to rationalize your opinion, and make me look like an idiot, which you seem to be failing at. if all pc games are being based on "old technology," how come doom3, unreal championship, and eventually, half life 2, will have to be downgraded for xbox? and how come it is the opinion of *most* people that doom3 and half life 2, pc games that use "old technology," look better than halo2?


once again stating false truths[regarding the long dev time of source engine]. Yes, it is your opinion, but it is not fact. After the game is released and extensive play has be had on all the games, then one could possibly state fact whether one is better than the others.

this it taking my quote out of context. this was about the fact that someone said halo2 was better because its been in the works for less time.


Yes, i too have had rumors that this is true[regarding the fact that everything in half life 2 behaves realistically]. I also greatly want it to be true. But until you have played it, that cannot be stated as fact, just another rumour/opinion. Yet it comes out of you as fact, becuase you are the fact master!
this is not a rumor. this is a fact, according to gabe and the guys at valve. if you want to call them liars, go ahead.


Oh it is the best out there is it? But, wait a second, IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET! So, how can that be? Oh, that is right, it can't be. It is just another opinion falsely stated as fact.
i thought it was implied that when i say its the best, i mean IMO. but i guess from now i can help you out by adding IMO after every sentence i type. i'll make things even CLEARER for you, YET AGAIN

Halo2=great
Half Life 2=great
Doom3=great
based on what we've seen so far, i can safely assume that half life 2 will be better than halo2, IN MY OPINION
can you comprehend that? that's my past 500 half life posts in a nutshell.


[regarding lip synching tecnology] Ot would have been nice if you said that the developers are saying they are implementing that into the game, but I am forgetting, you are the fact master! Infact, you know just as much about the engine as anyone else, even if they know nothing about it. Everything you hear, until you play the game, is just rumour and opnion. *wonders how much more he is going to have to say that*
you're calling valve liars again. your logic is inane and just plain stupid. when a developer says a feature is going to be in a game, and multiple gaming publications confirm it, its safe to assume it'll be in the game. otherwise it'd be impossible to even try to speculate about anything, and the whole point of forums would be moot. you're saying that every preview of every game ever written is all just a bunch of lies, that are proven right or wrong when the game is released. you're just twisting words to make me look like a fanboy. trust me, i've been here longer than you, i own multiple ystems, it is virtually impossible for me to be a fanboy. the mere fact that i said i want halo 2 and doom3 makes it impossible, because a fanboy would say they're TEH SUCK. a fanboy would say that features developers say will be in a game are lies. i havent done any of these. i've made logical assumptions and posted my opinion about them. what have you done, besides accuse me of being biased, and valve of being a bunch of liars?


So how is geomod gimmicky but this source engine is not? Are not both trying to make games more realistic? Do they not both achieve that same thing? If one is gimmicky, then so is the other as they are both trying to achieve the same thing.
geomod had no impact on the game at all. source's physics will MOST LIKELY be a central part of the game...that is, unless valve has been lying to us about all this physics stuff the whole time. i forgot, everythign they've said is a lie, and we can't trust them. please forgive me.



[quoting me"okay. you're opinion > every gaming mag ever printed. i guess you're right, hl's story sucked.]
Oooh, fact master is at it again! Claiming opinion to be an undeniable truth

how am i doing that? i'm comparing one guys opinions to those of the rest of the world. your snide sarcastic comments arent helping, by the way.



Now, Koopa, I hope you see where I am coming from. You do say in spots that you are looking forwards to all the games. Then you turn around and start talking about how Half Life 2 is god and that no other game will be able to touch it for at least five years. In at least one spot you kind of bash the XBox even.

As for slander and snide comments, I made a few, yes, but you made tons before me, thusly, I felt it necessary to throw them back at you to let you know how those poeple felt whom you did it too.

Now I have to ask, do you not find favoratism sickening? If not, then how?

-edit-
I won't argue with you anymore over whether or not you are a fanboy or not. The pages in this thread and this post are all I need to prove the point I was trying to get across.
your whole arguement is flawed. you're saying i'm not allowed to think half life is better than any other game coming out. and you're saying that because i feel this way, im a fanboy. then everyone here is a fanboy for prefering xbox and thinking it is better. i will repeat, AGAIN, what ive been saying all along. i think half life 2 will be the best shooter available. to do this, i need to use logic and the information given to us by valve, assuming they're not lying, in order to form an opinion. my opinion's aren't too crazy, because many gaming publications agree with me.

i could just say that i think all games are equal and i cant wait for them all the same, but thats just politically correct crap. i think half life 2 will be the best. if trying to prove this makes me a fanboy, so be it.i've been here long enough, and enough people know me well enough on the boards to realize that i'm not a raving fanboy. i don't need your validation on the subject to feel this way about myself, so how about we keep the comments related to teh games, not about how i'm biased, how i'm a fanboy, or how i'm an ignoramus for believing the informaion given to me by valve, which you assume is all rumors.

and anyway, i really doubt anyone other than you and i are reading these long drawn out arguments.

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 10:12 PM
Wow, everything I said has been proven again. Selective reading, false truths, accusations and slanderous remarks a plenty yep, they are all present.

dances with broom sticks
08-19-2003, 10:35 PM
These are by far the longest posts I have ever seen all together.


Is anyone other than those involved reading them? I try, but my attention span is MUCH to low.

:cheers:

Koopa
08-19-2003, 10:58 PM
Is anyone other than those involved reading them? I try, but my attention span is MUCH to low.
lol, i knew someone would say that, which is why i addressed it in my last essay..er..post.:D i've got a solution, read on. i'll try to be brief.



Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Wow, everything I said has been proven again. Selective reading, false truths, accusations and slanderous remarks a plenty yep, they are all present.

i could say the same, but it wont get us anywhere.

how about we kiss, make up, and start over? I'll work on adding IMOs and lighten up on the criticism if you'll stop the accusations and be a little more open minded.



okay.
so, in a nutshell, this is my opinion, based on what we know.

Half Life:
Pros
- most realistic physics I've ever seen, IMO, and they add to gameplay, unlike geomod in red faction, etc. they're also relatively easy to make mods with
-sequel to "best game of all time" according to every pc gaming mag ever. they've devoted their every resource for the past five years on topping themselves, and i think they'll do it.
-amazing AI, which is something i'd love to see more of in future halo2 demos. the jackals advancing in a v formation was cool, and seeing the AI drive the hogs was nice, but i'd like to see more combat AI, like the AI for friendly soldiers in the barricade street fight half life movie. half life had the best AI of its time, and better ai than some games that are out right now. i feel half life 2's AI will be some of the best of the next five years. i'm sure halo 2's will be up there as well, but i haven't seen it on film yet. if bungie pulls of what they say they'll pull off (i.e. AI reacting with EVERYTINg aroudn them, such as toppled chairs, tables, etc.), im sure it'll be out of this world.
-PC. lets face it. a radeon 9800 machine witha p4 3.0ghz and a gig of ram is more powerful than an xbox. gave newell said a radeon 97 with 512 ram and a p4 2.0 will run half life 2 with all effects on at 40fps, which is what i'm expecting to get. sure, the fact that halo2 is exclusive for xbox means it'll have greater graphics than other consoles, but vs the pc, it gets edged out just a bit by the fact that technology has advanced since november 2001. not only are graphics a benefit, but user-created mods will most likely be more plentiful in a pc game than in an identical xbox game. i realize that ms plans on allowing mods for counter-strike, and hopefully for halo, but given that modders will probably have to filter their mods through MS to get approval, i'm guessing mods will be few and far between. I'd LOVE to be pleasantly surprised though, and get some awesome halo2 mods as DLC's on my hard drive. i just don't think it'll happen as well as it could if halo2 were on pc. i wanna try and keep this post kinda short so i'll just say that modding is easy to do with the source engine, and valve is very modder friendly.

okay, lets try to stay civil.

cheers:cheers:

Kortiz
08-19-2003, 11:09 PM
hey hey hey now, why is there so much hostility? why cant we just sit back and have a mountain dew code red? smoke some 2nd hand cigarettes and talk about how much we all like big brestesesessssss and firm ass cheeks spread eagle.......wouldn't that be better than bickering about who likes what and why they are wrong for liking something?


c'mon guys, can't we all just get along?

MerimacHamwich
08-19-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Koopa

i could say the same, but it wont get us anywhere.

how about we kiss, make up, and start over? I'll work on adding IMOs and lighten up on the criticism if you'll stop the accusations and be a little more open minded.

If I will stop the accusations and be more open minded? Seriously Koopa, I don't understand how you are coming about with this viewpoint. I explained in my post why I said what I did. You seem to have conveneintly forgot that part though.

Also, some of the things you posted in your last post showed your limited knowledge of programming and game development. Especially the part about me takling out of my arse.

If you read what I said without trying to contradict it while reading it, I think you will understand the piont I was trying to get across.

Koopa
08-20-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich

If I will stop the accusations and be more open minded? Seriously Koopa, I don't understand how you are coming about with this viewpoint. I explained in my post why I said what I did. You seem to have conveneintly forgot that part though.

Also, some of the things you posted in your last post showed your limited knowledge of programming and game development. Especially the part about me takling out of my arse.

If you read what I said without trying to contradict it while reading it, I think you will understand the piont I was trying to get across.

i tried to be nice, but you just can't stop fighting, can you?

then i guess this thread is pointless.

its obvious to me that i can't convince you of my viewpoint, its obvious to me that i can't get a nice discussion going because you continue to make this a personal thing, and its obvious to me a discussion about the games is not what you WANT, because i gave an offer to return the discussion to the games, and it was ignored.

this is a waste of my time, your time, and everyone else who is attempting to read through our bickering. mods, if you're reading, i think this would be a good time to close this thread, its gone WAY off topic.

MerimacHamwich
08-20-2003, 12:23 AM
Man, selective reading once again. You can't get around that can you? I never bickered with you in my last post. I said what I observed. In your post before that you were still accusing me of things, so I replied in response to that.

I want to argue? I tried to stop the debate one or two pages ago. You found it more opportune to start a battle with me though.

Dyslexic Chaos
08-20-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Koopa


i tried to be nice, but you just can't stop fighting, can you?

then i guess this thread is pointless.

its obvious to me that i can't convince you of my viewpoint, its obvious to me that i can't get a nice discussion going because you continue to make this a personal thing, and its obvious to me a discussion about the games is not what you WANT, because i gave an offer to return the discussion to the games, and it was ignored.

this is a waste of my time, your time, and everyone else who is attempting to read through our bickering. mods, if you're reading, i think this would be a good time to close this thread, its gone WAY off topic.

I know how you feel man, he always does this. Takes things out of context, gives subtle insults, and acts all high and mighty. I agree with you Koopa, all the games will be AMAZING, but in my order from best to worst:

1)Half Life 2
2)Halo 2
3)Deus Ex 2 (why does no1 mention this nemore?)
4)Doom III

You know what, I try and be nice to mac all the time, but he always ends up being stuck up and not listening to a word ne1 says unless they agree with him. According to him, all Fighting Games suck because they are repetitive. Why are they repetitive you may ask? He thinks there is a very limited amount of things you can do in each situation in a fighting game. No, I don't get it either. There are so many attacks in a GOOD fighting game to vary things, and when you get 2 GREAT players going at it, it is simply AWESOME to watch. Alot more strategy than he would like to admit I'm sure. But, I will once again try to put this all behind us and get back on Topic...


I believe Halo 2 started developement about 2 months after Halo came out, because it is rare for a game to begin developement before the previous one is shipped, in case it is a flop. I know what your thinking "but Halo was obviously awesome!!! How could it flop?!?!" Well, as we all know, some games just slip under everyones radar, making a sequel useless...

I also don't believe Halo 2 is done, and honestly, yes, often times games are done about a few days before they ship. That is why there are so many last minute delays, because they couldnt reach the deadline.

Jerred Final Thought: HL 2, Halo 2, and Deus Ex II will rock every FPS's fans world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dyslexic Chaos
08-20-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
...
Seriously Koopa, I don't understand how you are coming about with this viewpoint. I explained in my post why I said what I did. You seem to have conveneintly forgot that part though...

Also, some of the things you posted in your last post showed your limited knowledge of programming and game development. Especially the part about me takling out of my arse...

If you read what I said without trying to contradict it while reading it,

I think you are the one who is continuing this fight. OK, no more refering to any previous posts or other members comments not about the original subject in the thread from this point on, ok guys? Let's try and keep the peace here.

Koopa
08-20-2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Jerred B


I know how you feel man, he always does this. Takes things out of context, gives subtle insults, and acts all high and mighty. I agree with you Koopa, all the games will be AMAZING, but in my order from best to worst:

1)Half Life 2
2)Halo 2
3)Deus Ex 2 (why does no1 mention this nemore?)
4)Doom III
thats my exact same order! well..its pretty close between deus ex 2 and doom3...deus ex has no mp at all but i think a far more intriguing idea for SP, but Doom3 has a kinda interesting SP and a kinda interesting multiplayer...so idunno. I might pass on deus ex just because there's no mp at all...and i never played the first one so i'm not thaatt excited about it...idunno, decisions, decisions...idunno how im gonna find time to beat all these games.


You know what, I try and be nice to mac all the time, but he always ends up being stuck up and not listening to a word ne1 says unless they agree with him. According to him, all Fighting Games suck because they are repetitive. Why are they repetitive you may ask? He thinks there is a very limited amount of things you can do in each situation in a fighting game. No, I don't get it either. There are so many attacks in a GOOD fighting game to vary things, and when you get 2 GREAT players going at it, it is simply AWESOME to watch. Alot more strategy than he would like to admit I'm sure. But, I will once again try to put this all behind us and get back on Topic...
okay, so its not just me:)



I believe Halo 2 started developement about 2 months after Halo came out, because it is rare for a game to begin developement before the previous one is shipped, in case it is a flop. I know what your thinking "but Halo was obviously awesome!!! How could it flop?!?!" Well, as we all know, some games just slip under everyones radar, making a sequel useless...

I also don't believe Halo 2 is done, and honestly, yes, often times games are done about a few days before they ship. That is why there are so many last minute delays, because they couldnt reach the deadline.

Jerred Final Thought: HL 2, Halo 2, and Deus Ex II will rock every FPS's fans world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
amen to that!
:D
good job getting this thread back on track! if i had a cookie i'd give it to you, but i guess i can offer you a frosty beer instead
:cheers:

MerimacHamwich
08-20-2003, 01:12 AM
This threads track is Hamwich bashing?! If so, its been on track since I got here trying to stop the argument.

Frink
08-20-2003, 01:33 AM
The flaming in this thread should be ended immediately. Maybe it can continue into a decent thread.

SPARTAN VI
08-20-2003, 03:40 AM
Well, I have an uber headache, and just crapped up a storm (stupid Hard Rock Cafe's food SUCKS!)... but I'll throw my opinion in, anyway.

I really don't see what's so hard to understand about Koopa's opinion. He wants all the games, but picks out one that he thinks will be better than the other two (even if it's by a slim margin). What's so hard to understand about that? Here's a list of the big 3 from most to least wanted:

1) Halo2
2) Half-Life 2
3) DOOM3

Now, with all that has been said, I won't need to explain my opinion (I did say if before, even if it wasn't in this particular thread). I base my opinion on what I've seen, heard, or experienced in the past.

Same goes with Koopa, and every other [intelligent] sentient being on the planet. Koopa explained in complete detail why he thinks HL2 will be the better game and there's nothing anyone can say to prove his opinion wrong... unless God gave you the gift of having *THE* ALMIGHTY OPINION, which he didn't.

Now, regarding Half-Life 2. I think Vavle displayed the most amazing feats that no other game alone has produced. Based on the footage I've seen, statements made by the developement team, and my past experience with Half-Life 1, it's more than safe to assume Half-Life 2 will be the most *unique* gaming experience I will have (until another game comes along to dethrown it as Halo did to HL1). But I won't repeat why it's not #1 on my list... I'll just say that I'm looking forward to it as much as Koopa, but when Halo2 comes around, I wont be sure what game I'll be booting up more.

Now this is my opinion. Live with it, or I will kill you. http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif

E Nomini Patri
08-20-2003, 03:47 PM
I say I want to play Halo 2 more, just because I want to know what happens next. I have never played Half-Life or Doom, so I don't know a whole lot about their storylines. I will still buy all three, esp. after seeing Half-Life 2's 25 minute E3 vid. That was awesome watching the guy get shot from the platform, and bouncing on the street below!

MerimacHamwich
08-20-2003, 03:57 PM
Ok, this will be the last time I post in here. I want to make it clear to everyone the idea behind my posts. First of all, I never doubted Koopa wants to play all three games, especially Half Life 2. However, the attitude in which he was presenting his arguments is what I had a problem with. I found it derogatory, so I did the same to him, becuase I thought he deserved to feel how he might be making others feel.

Now, back onto the real topic, I personally think Bungie is probably in a Beta testing period with Halo 2 right now. Working out slight bugs with the single player and multi-player modes. They may also be incorporating the more complicated Xbox Live aspects right now, from game play modes to communicator details. Communicator details could be how many poeple are allowed on a Channel, if they have channels. Or maybe they are going to work in a button like Ghost Recon, where you have to press a button to talk, like a walkie-talkie.

Other than that, they might just be optimizing the performance to ensure smooth framerates all throughout the game.

teenzine
08-20-2003, 04:07 PM
I told you, Bungie is taking Halo 2 into a small dark corner to rape it. Someone should help poor Halo 2.

Stormlord
08-20-2003, 05:15 PM
Heh. I was going to mention Deus Ex but Jerred beat me to it. IMO DE 2 actually looks better than HL 2. Everything mentioned in HL was mentioned to be in Deus. So really HL is not the first to start somewhere. Anyways, there's no doubt that HL will give you a linear feel. Deus would give you different ways to complete a level. Today a trailer was released, I suggest you check it out. Anyways the main topic was, what do you think Bungie is doing to Halo 2. Koopa I suggest you don't come to a Halo 2 discussions because the instant you come in you degenerate it into a Half-life vs. Halo chat or a PC vs. Xbox. But since it's way off topic here are screens for all the contenders.

http://www.deusex.com/screens/xbox/fullsize/xbox_screen03.jpg
actual XBox screen of Deus Ex.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/pc/doom3/0814/d_screen001.jpg
Doom III

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0515/halflife2/914642_20030515_screen004.jpg
Half-Life 2

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0514/eidos/thief3_screen001.jpg
Thief III (why doesn't this get mentioned?)

http://halo.bungie.net/images/site/halo/screenshots/halo2/h2_e3_08.jpg
Halo 2 (duh)

Koopa
08-20-2003, 07:10 PM
meh theres alot better screens you could've used for half life and deus ex.

SPARTAN VI
08-20-2003, 08:12 PM
Heh, I forgot all about Theif 3. The big 3 kinda bumped Theif and Dues Ex of the top 3 list. :p

webdaemon
08-22-2003, 12:53 AM
I totally forgot about Deus X 2. That SS looks awesome! So does the shot for Halo 2... Damn, I can't wait!

Anyone else waiting for Music Mixer? It sounds like you can access your music files on your computer through the network. Maybe you'll be able to file share other stuff too. :p

PapaSKooT
08-22-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by webdaemon
Anyone else waiting for Music Mixer? It sounds like you can access your music files on your computer through the network. Maybe you'll be able to file share other stuff too. :p

Thanx for reminding me :)

webdaemon
08-22-2003, 01:24 AM
Oh, no prob... :cheers:

Hugopolo
08-22-2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by webdaemon
I totally forgot about Deus X 2. That SS looks awesome! So does the shot for Halo 2... Damn, I can't wait!

Anyone else waiting for Music Mixer? It sounds like you can access your music files on your computer through the network. Maybe you'll be able to file share other stuff too. :p
Just what we need a way to get virus in our xboxs now

Motoko
08-22-2003, 01:14 PM
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. owns you all.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/screen1/540331_20030529_screen001.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0512/pc_stalker0700_screen009.jpg

Dyslexic Chaos
08-22-2003, 02:10 PM
*Forsees this thread going off topic again*

webdaemon
08-22-2003, 08:01 PM
Off topic, really? I have no idea what you mean.

On another topic, I just got Futurama and for what it is, it's OK.

------------------------

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Douchesforfun
08-22-2003, 08:37 PM
as long as the games as good or better than the first i dont care what they do... i only care if they bring it out and that its good... its there choice to do with it what they please:cheers:

SPARTAN VI
08-22-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Motoko
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. owns you all.


:drool:

Why haven't I seen screens of this game?!?! :cuss:

MerimacHamwich
08-22-2003, 09:16 PM
Becuase you suck!
:P
I first heard about S.T.A.L.K.E.R. on the Electric Playground. They talked about it and it seems alright. The graphics seem to be made by the detailed textures though, there doesn't seem to be much else there. No high poly counts or super special effects.

SPARTAN VI
08-22-2003, 09:51 PM
High resolution textures always look nice, but it could use some bump-mapping to add definition to the models. Still, those screens look awesome.

Unreal
08-24-2003, 10:10 AM
I want the ability to play mulitplayer with bots. So I hope they are adding that to Halo 2.

halo_demon
08-28-2003, 10:06 PM
They're sticking their cold long fingers up it's quivering butt.Hell i dont know.They're doing whatever game guys do.peace out