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MerimacHamwich
01-06-2004, 12:49 PM
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/449/449146p1.html

J Dub
01-06-2004, 12:56 PM
Good article, but it's basically just IGN's hopes for what will be included. Nothing new here, just opinion.

Angell
01-06-2004, 01:20 PM
I think the Xbox 2 will have some more ground-breaking technology than what IGN is dreaming of (just my thoughts of course). And IGN simply saying No to backwards compadability, I think thats a bit premature, why not include it? It makes sense.

jelgiad
01-06-2004, 01:23 PM
truthfully, some of the stuff that they want, i could care less about. Im buying a console gaming system, not a multimedia center. I already have a dvd player. I already have a computer to watch multimedia files. as far as wireless, tahts cool, but they still better include a wired network as well. the headphone jack thing is pointless. and xbox 2 better be backwards compatible

J4320
01-06-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by jelgiad
and xbox 2 better be backwards compatible

Amen to that!!!

blackiee2002
01-06-2004, 01:46 PM
[and xbox 2 better be backwards compatible ]

oh trust me it will

Peepers
01-06-2004, 01:49 PM
I don't get this:



Backwards Compatibility

This one is pretty obvious. Like the PlayStation 2 plays PS One games, we want the Xbox 2 to play Xbox games. Simple as that. Not only does this dramatically increase the game library right when the console is released, but it gives gamers a cheap way to buy and play games from an older generation. Look at how successful the PS2 is. We can't think of any gamer out there that wouldn't love to have this feature. Plus, we could still keep our Xbox games out while retiring one console, cutting down on the console mess many of us have in front of our television.

Will it happen? No.

Page 2. (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/449/449146p2.html)

This looks like an error, or maybe a lame IGN attempt at humor. WTF?

PS:
I would like a headphone jack.

ShadowWolf
01-06-2004, 01:58 PM
A headphone jack, they could make something like the Xbox Live communicator and have the sound come through the controller, cause I don't sit near my Xbox.

If it doesn't have backwards compadability (WHich it most likely will), I won't buy it.

J4320
01-06-2004, 01:59 PM
It would be EXTREMELY SMART for them to feature backwards compatability and they know that. So it is either sarcasm or an error.

mattgame
01-06-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by j4320


Amen to that!!!

Amen and Hallejuh! That would be a waste. I might as well stop buying xbox games now and save up for the second coming.:cheers:

J4320
01-06-2004, 02:17 PM
So whens it coming out again? 2006?

jimmer71
01-06-2004, 02:43 PM
Xbox 2 is still a couple years away. So for now I will worry about my Xbox collection libary. By the time Xbox 2 comes out I will probably have bought 1-2 more Xboxes the way my luck is going with them. I am on my 3rd, at least this time I got a samsung DVD drive.

OC Noob
01-06-2004, 03:08 PM
They are going with a different platform (the IBM Power PC like chip) and that means the coding and all sorts of other stuff will be different.

Either they can do some sort of emulation, which I'm doubting would be possible, or they have to have a bunch of old hardware added to run the old games. PS2 has all sorts of extra junk in it to play PS1 games and that is also a reason for the high failure rate of PS2s.

I think I'd rather buy a $30 Xbox if mine breaks then have all the extra junk and cost in Xbox 2. Backwards compatability in my PS2 is nice, but I still have a PS1 and if I did I can get one for $30. Backward compatability isn't a big deal.


With the platform change backwards compatiblility has a slim to none chance of happening and thats why IGN said NO.



ps shrinking down PS1 stuff is A LOT easier then shrinking down an intel chip, motherboard, Hard drive and video card. Not to mention it would likely cost more then the Xbox 2 stuff alone.



Oh yeah, that article sucked, it had nothing to do with the real hardware, just a bunch of add on crap that would be useless for most user and jack up prices. They should have added the Eye Toy to their lame list while they were at it. The IGN jerks should just by a PC if they want all that crap:D

DocHoliday78
01-06-2004, 04:29 PM
That would be so badass if it was backward compatable. I hope it was some lame humour by ign to just put no.

MerimacHamwich
01-06-2004, 07:53 PM
Did you all miss the part at the end where they said they were going to make another article tomorow saying what they KNOW will be in the system?

Peepers
01-06-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by OC Noob
They are going with a different platform (the IBM Power PC like chip) and that means the coding and all sorts of other stuff will be different.

I don't understand why changing the CPU or graphics card etc. would matter. Let me caution you: I'm merely a computer dilettante, so there's a high probability I'll be wrong about this. IIRC, the Xbox uses DirectX for most of its game developing. Assuming the Xbox 2 also uses DirectX and has a properly programmed OS, wouldn't backward compatability be a snap? I mean regardless of hardware, I would think that it would be automatic. Am I right? Can someone confirm this?



Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Did you all miss the part at the end where they said they were going to make another article tomorow saying what they KNOW will be in the system?

No, we're patiently waiting for any and all updates and follow-ups. :D

MerimacHamwich
01-06-2004, 08:49 PM
Actually, I believe OC was referring to the new discs that are said to be considered for the next XBox and the hardware needed for them. THey won't be regular DVD's but more like Nintendos 8 inchers. They hold more info and help with copyright protection. Smaller DVD tray/slot = no ability to load DVDs.
:)

Peepers
01-06-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Actually, I believe OC was referring to the new discs that are said to be considered for the next XBox and the hardware needed for them. THey won't be regular DVD's but more like Nintendos 8 inchers. They hold more info and help with copyright protection. Smaller DVD tray/slot = no ability to load DVDs.
:)

No way! You've got to be kidding me. Was that in this article? I don't remember reading that anywhere.

Even if they do go to a small disc (a mistake in my mind) I doubt they'll make the tray smalller. They need to maintain the Xbox 2's full functionality, that means DVD player among other things. So this strikes me as unlikely, espescially Microsofts "livingroom" ambitions. Microsoft, more than any other of the big three, wants its console to be more than just a console.

NY89
01-06-2004, 09:01 PM
No matter what XBOX 2 is gonna be hot

Peepers
01-06-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by NY89
No matter what XBOX 2 is gonna be hot

No, it will be "hot" if and only if the Xbox 2 has "hot" features and specs. ;)

MerimacHamwich
01-06-2004, 09:42 PM
Didn't read it in the article. Read it on XBA a while back.

MikeMan91389
01-06-2004, 10:16 PM
Either way, im getting a xbox2... Its alright if there isnt backwards compatability, but if my xbox goes sour.... ill feel the other way... so i dunno what to think!

INCLUDE Backwards Compatability!

Peepers
01-06-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Didn't read it in the article. Read it on XBA a while back.

I hope that rumor turns out to be false. Fortunately, i think it will.

colosso
01-07-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Angell
I think the Xbox 2 will have some more ground-breaking technology than what IGN is dreaming of (just my thoughts of course). And IGN simply saying No to backwards compadability, I think thats a bit premature, why not include it? It makes sense. if the next xbox doesn't support or play games from the firts video console i can see the failure of microsft soon,because like ign said,the bigger the library games is,the better,that's why ps2 is the leader of video game industry,people don't care about xbox been the most powerful sistem on earth.

oldi1knoby
01-07-2004, 12:52 AM
I agree. Backwards compatability is very important to me. I don't see why this article claimed to have info on the XBOX2... It all seems to be a big wishlist to Santa... Great "news" article. I'm going to write a news article on what I named my toes while on acid... that has more news info than this article did.

LynxFX
01-07-2004, 01:49 AM
I think we came up with a better wishlist in out past thread.

Some things aren't good at all and I HOPE TO HELL they don't arrive on Xbox 2.

Such as the slot loading drive:

It's more or less an aesthetic wish, but it does have some practical benefits. For example, games will be much easier to load, lowering the chances of ruining the disc and/or tray.
Lowering? Umm sorry but the best way to scratch your media is to put it in a slot loading drive. This would be a big http://www.xboxaddict.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Another thing is that they kept wanting features that rely on old dvd technology. Yes it is getting old.

For instance, progressive dvd playback. Yes that would have been a much welcomed item in the Xbox and was actually there until MS pulled it at the last minute because of the extra cost to license each Xbox for macrovision. This license fee you pay with the cost of the DVD kit so I don't see why they didn't have the kit 'turn on' progressive playback. But I would be more concerned with the fact that they never gave us a 480p dashboard. Plus you can get a progressive dvd player for nearly the cost of the DVD playback kit now.

Backwards compatibility. Nice feature? Yes. Required? No. There are many many different questions and scenarios that come with this issue but the biggest factor will be the final media that is used. If MS was smart (I already ranted in the other thread about this) they will adopt the HD-DVD standard of AOD discs which is going to directly compete with Sony's Blu-Ray technology (except AOD will be standard like DVD's and CD's are today). If they do go with that then there is a high possibility that they could easily make the Xbox2 backwards compatible. If MS decides to stick with todays DVD format or *gasp* a smaller disc like the GC (don't see that happening) then they will be a step behind the PS2, yes I said PS2. Anyway, stepping away from a standard media format will just add to the manufacturing costs of the next Xbox and that is not a good thing.

Headphone jack? Bah who cares? Get a receiver.

Wireless connectivity? Hell yah but I already said that in the old thread. :D

Burned media? Again all depends on the media format they go with. I doubt that will be improved upon as they will want you to use your home network to move files.

Wireless controllers? Did they read my past post or something? But yes that would be great.

Design? Gamecube and PS2 mopped it up? I think not. None look that great. The PS2 looks like it is on life support when you connect the 4 port adaptor controllers and the new excessories up to it that make it end up with the standard features of the all in one package of the Xbox. Considering the tech that was available at the time, the Xbox looks pretty good and it had to be made as cheap as possible (out went laptop parts). Something modern will be nice but I don't want some gaudy eyesore (purple gamecube anybody?). Make it tasteful and sleek and keep it looking like another A/V piece and I'll be happy. Keep it function before design.


So for part 2 is IGN just waiting to see what we post then will compile their second list?

Sodacider
01-07-2004, 03:20 AM
i doubt almost the entire article. of course, it was straight opinion anyway so it doesn't matter.

backwards compatible?
Microsoft is the king of backwards compatibility, so anything short of a smaller disc size and they'll keep it.

I mean, god damn, the XBox runs on MS DirectX technology, that's like the basis of all backwards compatibility.

To put it into simpler terms- your computer right now can run any game made at any time (save some DOS games) for the MS platform, right?
Yet, how many operating systems and major graphics overhauls has the computer world gone through?
Microsoft's DirectX drivers are the reason for that- no matter how new your drivers are, they will always run the old stuff too.

So it is just ludicrous to think they won't have compatibility for the XBox 2.

nG-Punisher
01-07-2004, 10:01 AM
What the hell are they doing coming out with another X-Box...these graphics better come out and play with me since they are already damn good...and with compatibility to previous xbox games, they say it wont happen but IT HAS TOO...they would have to restart their whole campaign for games unless of course they made all the previous games for the new xbox only but then again WHY would you waste your time doing all that? Money?

But don't get me wrong, I'll probably be the first one to have it :D

OC Noob
01-08-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Peepers


I don't understand why changing the CPU or graphics card etc. would matter. Let me caution you: I'm merely a computer dilettante, so there's a high probability I'll be wrong about this. IIRC, the Xbox uses DirectX for most of its game developing. Assuming the Xbox 2 also uses DirectX and has a properly programmed OS, wouldn't backward compatability be a snap? I mean regardless of hardware, I would think that it would be automatic. Am I right? Can someone confirm this?




No, we're patiently waiting for any and all updates and follow-ups. :D



Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, now the article from IGN detailing backwards compatability via emulation is out and a new thread about it is on the front page, but if you for some reason decide not to read any of that:

The next Xbox CPU is more like an Apple CPU ( a variation of it I believe) and all the PC code, including the DirectX stuff, will not work on it since it requires different coding.

If you haven't check out the new IGN article, its much better then the first.

Peepers
01-08-2004, 01:26 PM
Excellent post LynxFX. I never even considered the potential for slot-loading drives to scratch up media, but when I think of the condition of my CD's that I play in my car's player, I realize you're right.

Is there something beyond progressive scan now? I don't understand that part.

I too disagreed with them about the Xbox's design. I think its the best looking console on the market.

I would also like USB2.0 controller connectivity or better (wireless or not). That kind of data-transfer potential could allow for some really great peripherals.

You've got me curious about the HD-DVD format. What does that entail? How much more potential for gaming would that add?

MerimacHamwich
01-08-2004, 02:08 PM
Peepers, DVD's can only be displayed in 480p now. So if you are watching a movie on a HDTV, the max resolution it can be is 480p. HD-DVD is going to allow HDTV resolutions for movies, being 720p and 1080i. That's a huge difference. My guess is that the next Xbox will only have 480p playback though, seeing as they dumped it last time and stuck with 480i.

-Edit-
Here is part two if you so wish to read it.
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/449/449314p1.html

Peepers
01-08-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
Peepers, DVD's can only be displayed in 480p now. So if you are watching a movie on a HDTV, the max resolution it can be is 480p. HD-DVD is going to allow HDTV resolutions for movies, being 720p and 1080i. That's a huge difference. My guess is that the next Xbox will only have 480p playback though, seeing as they dumped it last time and stuck with 480i.

-Edit-
Here is part two if you so wish to read it.
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/449/449314p1.html

That sucks. Yeah, I know there's a huge difference between the various levels of resolutions, but since I don't own a HDTV, I wasn't aware that DVD's only sport 480p. I erroneously thought 720p was standard for DVD's.

Part two of the article was good. The only real sore-spot was backwards compatability. If emulation works, (on-line and off) then I'm ok, otherwise that'll suck.

I was also concerned about the Ram. I think the biggest technical problem with the Xbox was it's mere 64MB of RAM. I'm glad that the article said at least 256, but I think it needs more if it wants to stay competitive with PCs and guarantee technical supremacy to the PS2. I would like to see a GB.

Processor power is also a sticking point here. It's a bit difficult to comment on processors with just clock-speed info, but I hope MS goes out of its way to beat the daylights out of PS3 and keep up with PC's. I don't know if 2GHz is enough, espescially with launch still a year away and PC CPU's beating 3 GHz already.

What do you guys think?

wbio
01-08-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Peepers


That sucks. Yeah, I know there's a huge difference between the various levels of resolutions, but since I don't own a HDTV, I wasn't aware that DVD's only sport 480p. I erroneously thought 720p was standard for DVD's.

Part two of the article was good. The only real sore-spot was backwards compatability. If emulation works, (on-line and off) then I'm ok, otherwise that'll suck.

I was also concerned about the Ram. I think the biggest technical problem with the Xbox was it's mere 64MB of RAM. I'm glad that the article said at least 256, but I think it needs more if it wants to stay competitive with PCs and guarantee technical supremacy to the PS2. I would like to see a GB.

Processor power is also a sticking point here. It's a bit difficult to comment on processors with just clock-speed info, but I hope MS goes out of its way to beat the daylights out of PS3 and keep up with PC's. I don't know if 2GHz is enough, espescially with launch still a year away and PC CPU's beating 3 GHz already.

What do you guys think?
I doubt MS will put a GB of RAM in there, unless the Xbox is almost just like a PC, because I think otherwise it will be overkill, and will cost more. I am hoping for 512 though.

Peepers
01-08-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by wbio

I doubt MS will put a GB of RAM in there, unless the Xbox is almost just like a PC, because I think otherwise it will be overkill, and will cost more. I am hoping for 512 though.

But remember that 512 is pretty normal for PC's in 2003/2004. The Xbox 2 is going to have to last until around 2010, will 512 be competitive in 2010? (I honestly don't know.)

OC Noob
01-08-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Peepers


That sucks. Yeah, I know there's a huge difference between the various levels of resolutions, but since I don't own a HDTV, I wasn't aware that DVD's only sport 480p. I erroneously thought 720p was standard for DVD's.

Part two of the article was good. The only real sore-spot was backwards compatability. If emulation works, (on-line and off) then I'm ok, otherwise that'll suck.

I was also concerned about the Ram. I think the biggest technical problem with the Xbox was it's mere 64MB of RAM. I'm glad that the article said at least 256, but I think it needs more if it wants to stay competitive with PCs and guarantee technical supremacy to the PS2. I would like to see a GB.

Processor power is also a sticking point here. It's a bit difficult to comment on processors with just clock-speed info, but I hope MS goes out of its way to beat the daylights out of PS3 and keep up with PC's. I don't know if 2GHz is enough, espescially with launch still a year away and PC CPU's beating 3 GHz already.

What do you guys think?


One of the main reasons a GBA can render its games with a 25 mhz processor and why all gaming specific processors are so much more efficient is because of the specific code.

Coding for x86 computers isn't even close to optimized for gaming like consoles are. Even though its better to have seprate processor and video chips with the complex physics calculations (and such) in new games console chips like the emotion chip at... 400 mhz (?) can run gfx circles around a 3.5 ghz P4 processor that has to be coded to do several different tasks.

Poor or even just inefficient coding can kill performance. Jack of all trades, master of none kind of thing.

What would also be great is if they had seprate video and system ram for the Nextbox. Video ram has memory bandwidth of 30-40 gb/sec while system is around 6-8 gb/s. It really kills performance on onboard video cards on motherboards.

128 mb (probably 64 mb would be fine too) for video will do fine for HDTV res textures and another 128 for system should be fine too.

MerimacHamwich
01-09-2004, 08:00 AM
Peeps, it's going to have a power pc, which basically means its going to rule. THey also said the clock speed would probably be 2 notches below the current highest at least, which means a 3ghz processor. The Xbox 2 is going to be a beast.

littlechef
01-18-2004, 06:36 AM
from ign

Backwards Compatibility
This one is pretty obvious. Like the PlayStation 2 plays PS One games, we want the Xbox 2 to play Xbox games. Simple as that. Not only does this dramatically increase the game library right when the console is released, but it gives gamers a cheap way to buy and play games from an older generation. Look at how successful the PS2 is. We can't think of any gamer out there that wouldn't love to have this feature. Plus, we could still keep our Xbox games out while retiring one console, cutting down on the console mess many of us have in front of our television.

Will it happen? No.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/449/449146p2.html

bad move!

Kortiz
01-18-2004, 07:20 AM
Old news....and more importantly, speculation.

There have been no details on what will be included with xbox 2. We are going to have to wait for E3.

littlechef
01-18-2004, 07:28 AM
speculation...we can dream....but its real

Sexaya
01-18-2004, 07:31 AM
There's no proof for that, or for that matter most of the system's specs. It's just IGN's speculation, nothing to be sure of. I'm sure MS will do all it can to make their next system backwards compatible, but if means at the cost of the system's quality, they won't do it - and they damn well shouldn't.

Kortiz
01-18-2004, 07:36 AM
We won't know until it is officially released.

How many times have rumors gotten the best of us? Too many to even count.

Until it is officially stated, nothing is "real."

Either way, I have an xbox already. What is the big deal?

George89
01-18-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Fosho
We won't know until it is officially released.

How many times have rumors gotten the best of us? Too many to even count.

Until it is officially stated, nothing is "real."

Either way, I have an xbox already. What is the big deal?

Exactly....we'll just have to wait and see, maybe if enough people complain about it, they might make it a feature.

Trento52
01-18-2004, 12:52 PM
well i think it should be backwards compatible because lets say someone get the xbox 2 and wants to play the old games like halo or halo 2 etc because tehy just got there first microsoft console thent ehy could play those games without having to buy the old xbox and stuff.

Scapegoats
01-18-2004, 05:29 PM
Was it ever officially announced that the new Xbox will use an IBM PPC CPU? If so, it's gonna be pretty hard to make the old games run on that new architecture, and I'd doubt they'll waste the effort to do it.

Reclaimer
01-18-2004, 06:17 PM
At any rate, has their been an official Microsoft statement that there is no backwards compatibility? If there has, then that's the official word. It they haven't, then wait until then before you pass more speculation.

Second, why in the hell are all you worried about the Second Xbox now? It's not like it's coming out tomorrow.
Enjoy what you have now.

Scapegoats
01-18-2004, 06:35 PM
Well, if I am going to spend money on games now, I want them to last into the future. It's an investment. If the next gen console can't play these ones, but I look over at the competition, and they already have been doing this, and will likely do it in the future, where is the better place to put my money? If the PS3 supports PS2 and PS1 games, then the day it launches, it will automatically have a huge game library. If Xbox2 doesn't maintain backwards compatability, then it's starting over from scratch again... All the previous games need to run on one console, and all the new ones need to run on another. It's all about the investment. I don't know about you, but my TV only has so many connections on it. I would have to sacrifice either my PS1, PS2, Xbox, or VCR if I wanted to have them all hooked up. Luckily, I don't require the PS1 at all anymore. If Xbox2 isn't compatible, and PS3 is, which console will I replace? Well, the PS2 gets upgraded to the PS3, so I can play PS1, PS2, and PS3 games on it, and the Xbox... Well, I'm screwed. Maybe I'll just not buy an Xbox2?

The way I see it is that it's best for Microsoft to retain support for the older games, but they don't even need the money, so they likely don't care much. Not that Sony needs the money either...

Anyhow, it is all just speculation at this point in time, as far as I know, so we'll just have to wait. In the meantime, I don't have that much money to invest anyhow.

And yet in totally unrelated news, I got me a PS2 yesterday.

E Nomini Patri
01-18-2004, 06:45 PM
Well all the next-gen consoles have IBM chips, so won't it be hard for them to all have backwards compatibility?

I don't really care if the Xbox 2 does or doesn't have that option. I have an Xbox, so it doesn't matter to me.

Conchord
01-18-2004, 06:47 PM
Why don't we stop talking aboit what some IGN page says. I don't read anything and believe it unless its on xbox.com or here on XBA.

Casper
01-18-2004, 07:39 PM
This is all speculation is not official - honestly, don't read everything you read on the Net, and please try to cut down on rumor spreading, it's pointless and this has been posted 3x before - please do a search if you want to discuss this before.

BinaryXtreme
01-18-2004, 09:39 PM
Thank you Casper. Very well said......

MerimacHamwich
01-18-2004, 09:56 PM
My views on backwards compatibility.

I have new games, why play old games I already beat and played the heck out of?

Crazy Joe
01-19-2004, 06:02 PM
the architecture is gonna be completely different, it would be like trying to play a PC game on a mac, or a PS2 game on Xbox, the only way around it is with emulation, which is promising.... MS bought some huge tech company that specializes in emulation.

DocHoliday78
01-19-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by MerimacHamwich
My views on backwards compatibility.

I have new games, why play old games I already beat and played the heck out of?

True but people like to go back and beat their favorite games somtimes. If you already have the games why not be able to play them on the xbox2. I still play pc games that were made all the way back in 1999 (fallout). I can see myself playing through kotor again in a few years.