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View Full Version : EGM goes WAY over the line!



Casper
01-12-2004, 10:22 PM
In one of the more bizarre and tasteless uses of a photo in many years by a gaming magazine, Electronic Gaming Monthly, which is published by Ziff-Davis Media, hits a new low. For their coverage of Sony's SOCOM II for the PlayStation 2. EGM used the photograph shown in this thread (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156754) at a forum site called "The Guns Network" to show a soldier holding a box for the game. The original photograph as described by members of "The Guns Network" forum was actually Russian soldiers holding pictures of their comrades who have died in the Russian-Chechen conflict to honor them in a memorial service. To make matters worse for Ziff-Davis Media, they sent the owners of "The Guns Network" forums a letter (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=157365) informing of them essentially of their intent to sue for defamation if the offending link is not removed.

Credit goes to the forums at Gaming Age (http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/front/index.pl) for the links.

This is terrible - and shouldn't have even got past any kind of editor..... :cuss:

bretman1234
01-12-2004, 10:25 PM
What a disgrace! Way to show respect EGM :rolleyes: You guys got real class there.

armyof_one/ltd
01-12-2004, 10:29 PM
MAN! I never thought people would even think of doing that.

And how did they dare to sue the guys trying to tell the truth!

BTW: Isn´t it Computer Gaming Monthly?

Ford Mustang
01-12-2004, 10:48 PM
OMFG! That is totally disgusting. I have this issue. I can't believe they'd stoop that low. Some heads should be rolling for this. And it's even more outrageous that they're going to SUE the people telling the truth! WTF is that bull? I'm going to send them an email with a few of my thoughts in it. It won't do anything, but it will make me feel better. I encourage everyone here to do so.

Cryogenic Pyro
01-12-2004, 10:52 PM
That's beyond idiotic. The disgrace of this is beyond the line of being able to say sorry. I will never buy another EGM.

A sorry could have been in order before they sent the e-mail about suing The Guns Network.

What of bunch of asstards.

CC-CRC
01-12-2004, 10:57 PM
What ******* gets that idea.. lets paste SOCOM II into pictures of crying russians dead friends that died in the real world.

It looks like a bad photoshop job to me are you guys ure this is in the accual issue.

Ford Mustang
01-12-2004, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by CC-CRC
It looks like a bad photoshop job to me are you guys ure this is in the accual issue.


I do believe that I just said "I have this issue." :p

Regardless, this is just moronic, immoral, and wrong. EGM should be paraded around like clowns for being so damn stupid.

CarGuy
01-12-2004, 11:04 PM
BOYCOTT:cuss:

AlphaCigara
01-12-2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by armyof_one/ltd

BTW: Isn´t it Computer Gaming Monthly?

naw, i think that was a typo on the links behalf, cause Socom2 is a ps2 game.

anyways, i've been a loyal subscriber to EGM for over a year now, and while i still think its a quality magazine, this was a bit F'N STUPID of them. now, if i didn't know this photo actually meant something (with the whole "honoring their dead brothers" deal) i wouldn't be pissed at EGM, but yea that was way over the line.

Peepers
01-12-2004, 11:23 PM
Is it possible that they didn't know the context of the image when they selected it? It may have been an innocent mistake.

Casper
01-12-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Peepers
Is it possible that they didn't know the context of the image when they selected it? It may have been an innocent mistake.

But whomever photoshopped it had rights of the pic that they sold them. Whether or not you get someone to edit a pic for you, aren't you buying the rights from them? So shouldn't you be wondering where that pic came from?

blonks
01-12-2004, 11:33 PM
its terrible...but what can ya do? petetion to take it out? pffft!

Discretion
01-12-2004, 11:54 PM
That's horrible. I can't believe EGM sunk so low... :cuss:

Peepers
01-13-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Casper-XBA


But whomever photoshopped it had rights of the pic that they sold them. Whether or not you get someone to edit a pic for you, aren't you buying the rights from them? So shouldn't you be wondering where that pic came from?


I don't about purchasing the rights and stuff, but I can at least conceive of a scenario in which the EGM staff was ignorant of the photo's context, or ignorant of the event's significance.

Casper
01-13-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Peepers



I don't about purchasing the rights and stuff, but I can at least conceive of a scenario in which the EGM staff was ignorant of the photo's context, or ignorant of the event's significance.

I don't see that happening, honestly. With a site that is a monthly mag, and not a website that can just edit their html - I'd say that they knew where this came from, and that either they'll put in a retraction for the next issue. But if you're putting something like this in your periodical, you dam well better know where your sources are coming from.

Peepers
01-13-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Casper-XBA


I don't see that happening, honestly. With a site that is a monthly mag, and not a website that can just edit their html - I'd say that they knew where this came from, and that either they'll put in a retraction for the next issue. But if you're putting something like this in your periodical, you dam well better know where your sources are coming from.

Yes, they should have an apology in the next issue. But in addition to the (remote) possibilty that they may have been ignorant of the photo's origin/context, it's also possible that they (innocently but erroneously) reasoned that since they're not a Russian magazine it wouldn't matter.

Brimstone D.
01-13-2004, 12:36 AM
IMO this was an honest mistake...What some of you people don't know is that 100% of magazines buy their photos from different sources, and most of the time its from 'Stock' photos, were their are many High-Quality Pictures for sale in one package and they don't contain the stories behind them, so all in all it's the supplier's fault for not mentioning the history or story behind that picture.

themoosearmy
01-13-2004, 12:38 AM
It is horrible, I don't tend to think that EGM simply thought noone would notice and just put it in there.

Maybe they really didn't know and one of the art department guys hid his source from the editor because it was such a great find or something.

ScorpionX
01-13-2004, 12:42 AM
http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=157997

Don't jump to conclusions! :huh:

From: "Hsu, Dan" <Dan_Hsu@ziffdavis.com> Save Address | Headers
To: "<Hsu>, Dan" <Dan_Hsu@ziffdavis.com>
CC:
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:57:03 -0800
Subject: Apology from Electronic Gaming Monthly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

I wanted to write you to tell you that Electronic Gaming Monthly really screwed up with the picture of the soliders in our February issue. We're apologizing to everyone we can, and we've put up a public apology at the top of the front page of our website:

http://www.egmmag.com/

(apology here: http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,4364,1434661,00.asp )

We're also making a donation to the Veterans of Foreign Wars organization as a part of our apology.

We didn't mean to offend anyone. Honestly, it was nothing more than pure ignorance and stupidity on our part: We didn't realize what the original context of the image was, even though it's pretty clear in hindsight. I apologize. I screwed up and promise you it will never happen again.

Also, a legal letter was sent out by our legal department asking for some people to take down this image that was scanned out of EGM and posted online. This is absolutely *not* us trying to sweep this under the rug. That is an automated response to any scans of our copyrighted material (we licensed that picture from an imaging service). We didn't realize the image is being used for protest, which is fine by us since we screwed up. We honestly did not mean to further compound the problems and anger felt by those offended by our mistakes. We apologize for that legal letter as well. Please direct any complaints toward me, and please don't take it out on the original sender--she has nothing to do with this whole mess that was created by my editorial department. She had even less of an idea of the context of the original image than we did....

Sincerest apologies,

-Dan "Shoe" Hsu
Editor in Chief, Electronic Gaming Monthly

Peepers
01-13-2004, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Brimstone D.
IMO this was an honest mistake...What some of you people don't know is that 100% of magazines buy their photos from different sources, and most of the time its from 'Stock' photos, were their are many High-Quality Pictures for sale in one package and they don't contain the stories behind them, so all in all it's the supplier's fault for not mentioning the history or story behind that picture.

I never even considered this possibility. It seems very possible and highly exculpatory.


EDIT: I like the way they handled the apology--very admirable.

themoosearmy
01-13-2004, 12:51 AM
*above letter*
Yeah, it is VEYR hard to believe a major publisher would intentionally insult or disrespect someone. Especially with all the pleasing and ass-kissing that american journalism has to undergo.

l Maximus l
01-13-2004, 02:39 AM
I truly hope that the dude who manipulated that picture had no idea what the real picture was. If he/she did, then, they should step down...and write an apology. That's just wrong.

X-Factor
01-13-2004, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by Maximus-XBA
I truly hope that the dude who manipulated that picture had no idea what the real picture was. If he/she did, then, they should step down...and write an apology. That's just wrong. Maximus! I haven't come across you for ages...how ya been?

smack_roscoe
01-13-2004, 05:57 PM
You gotta be F'n kidding me!

As a Veteran, I'm highly disgusted. I hope EGM/whoever learns an expensive lesson here.

l Maximus l
01-13-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by X-Factor
Maximus! I haven't come across you for ages...how ya been?

Pretty damn good, dude...where have you been??!

xboxman_1
01-13-2004, 06:58 PM
I truly hope that the dude who manipulated that picture had no idea what the real picture was. If he/she did, then, they should step down...and write an apology. That's just wrong.

Wow Maximus...it's almost like you didn't read the rest of the thread...

BananaMan
01-13-2004, 07:32 PM
:rolleyes:

X-Factor
01-13-2004, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Maximus-XBA


Pretty damn good, dude...where have you been??! Don't know if you remember, but I mostly post in the Xbox vs. GameCube Debate Area; never been a big fan of any other forum XBA has offered.

You should drop a line in the Debate Area now and again...would be nice to have a respectable XBA member post in there! ;)

c_a_i_l_l_o_u
01-13-2004, 08:35 PM
If you go to EGM right now there's is an apology from them, and an explanation to what happened and what they're doing to fix their mistake. http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,4364,1434661,00.asp

RichVGS
01-13-2004, 09:11 PM
This is just ****ing low. I am totally in disbelief that their editor would let that get out. That editor deserves to be fired and never allowed to work in the business again. I am ashamed that I subscribe to that mag, and am going online to cancel my subscription right after I post this.

I never thought I would hate a company more then EA, but I was so very wrong.

MikeMan91389
01-13-2004, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Ford_Mustang





I do believe that I just said &quot;I have this issue.&quot; :p

Regardless, this is just moronic, immoral, and wrong. EGM should be paraded around like clowns for being so damn stupid.

i thought u meant, u had an "issue" with it being published

Razor70
01-14-2004, 12:17 AM
Well good to see that EGM is taking the blame all upon themselves and not trying to back out of it gracefully. I am proud that they show they made a mistake and are taking care of it. I wonder how much of a contribution they are gonna make though? Guess we will have to wait and see.

mattgame
01-14-2004, 01:35 PM
Well at least EGM had the courage to apologize. However, they are going to pay for their mistake. Lesson learned hunh fellas?

BinaryXtreme
01-14-2004, 02:55 PM
Extremely distasteful, rude, and a few other words I shouldn't consider saying in this forum. What the hell were they thinking? Bunch of friggin' idiots thinking there would be no one upset by this. Whoever idea this was to even think about doing this should be fired. Why not take the Vietnam Memorial and black out the names and advertise on that you stupid asses. Absolutely disgusting!!!!! I agree, ban em'. I AM!!!!!

Angell
01-14-2004, 03:10 PM
Im disgusted... yes thats true but...
Im even more suprised that the person editing the photo didnt notice, I mean, figuring out what the original picture was about... well... it isnt rocket science.... not even a very apealing ad either....:eek:

BinaryXtreme
01-14-2004, 04:16 PM
I totally agree...