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colosso
01-16-2004, 10:10 PM
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Xbox 2 CPU To Be A 65nm Part

Jan. 16th, 2004 06:00 am
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Last month, we posted an announcement made by Sony and Toshiba (one of the two Sony’s partners for the PlayStation 3) telling the world that trial production of chips (the cell) using a 65-nanometer manufacturing process would begin this March, with commercial production of the final chips expected for summer 2005.


In that story we also suggested that the Xbox 2 CPU could also be a 65-nm part since both Sony and Microsoft are going head-to-head for the next round in “The Console Wars.”


Today we can confirm that the Xbox 2 CPU will also be built using a 65-nanometer manufacturing process.


“It’ll be built on a 65-nanometer process,” a source confirmed to TeamXbox. “IBM has already taped out experimental samples at its East Fishkill fab but it will take between 12 to 18 months for them to deliver commercial parts. Anyway, they’re way ahead of Intel.”

There are countless stories as to why Microsoft decided to drop Intel in favor of IBM. But sometimes, it just could be as straightforward as Jodie Foster claims in the movie Contact, "The simplest hypothesis is most likely to be true."

And the truth is, when it comes to microprocessors, IBM has been pulling off one success after the other. It was the first company to deliver a 64-bit processor for the desktop, the PowerPC 970 found in Apple’s Power Mac G5 and, contrary to what most analysts predicted, it is the first company to deliver a 90nm microprocessor: the second generation PowerPC 970 found inside the new Xserve G5 that will also power the second revision of the G5. With this updated PowerPC 970, IBM delivers a 90nm processor before Intel’s Prescott.

“With the new 90nm manufacturing process, IBM broke the 2 Ghz barrier. The 65-nanometer technology will allow them to break the 3 Ghz barrier for sure and get closer to the 5 Ghz mark,” our source further clarified and was quick to add, “However, this is not just about clock speed. The more important thing here is what this baby and its specialized cores can do in a single clock cycle.”

For those really technically savvy, you may have noticed the same inaccuracy that we perceived. He used the word “cores” instead of “units”, which left us wondering…is Sony the only one coming with a CPU that is made of small groups of cores working together to process tasks in parallel? Only time will tell.

So, there you have it. Like kids comparing their toy collections, Microsoft can also say to Sony, “I’ve got one too” regarding the most advanced chip manufacturing process.

We’ll have more on the Xbox 2 CPU soon. Stay tuned.

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CPU for Dummies

A microprocessor is made of transistors, which are, basically, tiny electronic switches. The processor executes a collection of instructions based on whether these switches are on or off. Current microprocessors, such as the Intel Pentium 4 and the AMD Athlon XP, are built using a .13 micron process; meaning its transistors are just 0.00000013 meters wide. The chip industry is soon switching to a 0.09 microns (or 90nm) manufacturing process and speeding up the process of 65nm fabrication.

A smaller fabrication process allows you to have smaller transistors. The smaller the transistors, the more you can place in single chip; resulting in more computational power. Also, as they get smaller, signals that travel within the processor have to a travel a smaller path, resulting in faster speeds. So, the smaller the transistors, the faster the chip operates. This is why processors have reached higher clock speeds with the pass of time.

Chaotic
01-16-2004, 10:15 PM
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The reason you don't see IBM cpu's in consumer computers is because they build bad ass high end processors that far exceed that of intel and amd for high end servers, mainframes,as400's etc.. I'm very please MS choose to go with IBM. Coming from an MS/IBM world i know the diffrences pretty well between them. We won't be disappointed. :)

lotec16
01-16-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by ChaoticMage-DDC
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The reason you don't see IBM cpu's in consumer computers is because they build bad ass high end processors that far exceed that of intel and amd for high end servers, mainframes,as400's etc.. I'm very please MS choose to go with IBM. Coming from an MS/IBM world i know the diffrences pretty well between them. We won't be disappointed. :)

Heh, I'll give you three guesses who manufactures the FX-51 and who MADE the G5

1

2

3

IBM!

I am happy they are going with IBM, even todays chips at 5ghz would be extremly fast(and hot). But when you add in the fact that they will be better per clock cycle, it's gonna be crazy!

PoetSaskia
01-16-2004, 11:19 PM
I wonder what those games will be like. We've never seen anything to prepare us.

Ford Mustang
01-16-2004, 11:35 PM
All I can say is that I can't wait for this damn thing to come out. But like everyone else, we're going to have to. I can only imagine what performance differences and increases there will be between the generations. And how much Xbox 2 will be better than POS3...:cheers:

OC Noob
01-17-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by lotec16


Heh, I'll give you three guesses who manufactures the FX-51 and who MADE the G5

1

2

3

IBM!

I am happy they are going with IBM, even todays chips at 5ghz would be extremly fast(and hot). But when you add in the fact that they will be better per clock cycle, it's gonna be crazy!


IBM makes the FX-51? I didn't know they were working with AMD. Thats interesting.


Hell, I'm still wating on a Prescott to drop in my Abit IC7-G and overclock to 4 ghz. A 2.8 ghz P4 just doesn't do it after my water cooling blew up and killed my 2100+ @ 2.5 ghz:(

Anyway, I hope they don't take 12-18 months before commercial production. If thats the case the PS3 will have a years head start again.

Anyone know if Sony is going with the multiple CPU design vs the single CPU with a video card?

I would thing the later design would give MS an advantage if Sony is going with multiple processors and no vid card.

ShadowWolf
01-17-2004, 08:50 PM
MS! MS! MS! They are very smart cookies ;). Xbox 2 will rule the Console War.

Stormlord
01-17-2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Ford_Mustang
All I can say is that I can't wait for this damn thing to come out. But like everyone else, we're going to have to. I can only imagine what performance differences and increases there will be between the generations. And how much Xbox 2 will be better than POS3...:cheers:

How would you know if the next Playstation is going to be a piece of crap? They said they're both going to have 65nm chip. The only thing that will set them apart is GPU, online network and backwards compatibility (which is in question for Xbox). Don't let fanboyism blind you just yet. Wait for E3 '04 or maybe '05 to make judgment. Even then you'll have to wait for the games because whoever has better content is the winner of the war. :cheers:

colosso
01-17-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Stormlord


How would you know if the next Playstation is going to be a piece of crap? They said they're both going to have 65nm chip. The only thing that will set them apart is GPU, online network and backwards compatibility (which is in question for Xbox). Don't let fanboyism blind you just yet. Wait for E3 '04 or maybe '05 to make judgment. Even then you'll have to wait for the games because whoever has better content is the winner of the war. :cheers: i know xbox is going to have the best graphic card on it,thanks to microsoft smart move with ATI,so i don't think sony has a chance to win ,they had always made crappy sistems in the past 2 generation,what make you think this ps3 is going to be a great piece of hardware? sony never had a great sistems,never will,because MS has the money and the software too.so yes i am expecting xbox 2 to be a better sistem than ps3 again.

Angell
01-17-2004, 10:58 PM
This sort of thing makes me want to get in a car accident and end up in a coma until xbox 2 arrives so I dont have to wait...

or maybe Ill use halo 2 to tide me over. :)

Trento52
01-17-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by colosso
i know xbox is going to have the best graphic card on it,thanks to microsoft smart move with ATI,so i don't think sony has a chance to win ,they had always made crappy sistems in the past 2 generation,what make you think this ps3 is going to be a great piece of hardware? sony never had a great sistems,never will,because MS has the money and the software too.so yes i am expecting xbox 2 to be a better sistem than ps3 again.


ok you convinced me that it will be better but i still wonder. What if the ps3 turns out to be better graphically, faster, sleeker, etc. BUt then again what you said about microsofts money and software i think really fades those questions away and also with ATI which i heard around this site is not only cheaper but out does nividia.

lotec16
01-17-2004, 11:25 PM
xbox 2 will be incredibly powerful, but don't go anywhere near counting the cell design from being down and out. IF they hit it like they should, it should be extremly nice, a little better than xbox 2 at the rate it's at.

But i don't think they will hit it right and i won't expect anything GREAT from the cell.

Maybe in ps4

OC Noob
01-18-2004, 01:06 PM
I think the video card/CPU combo will be better for gfx since the ATI card they will be using will be just a monster, but there really is no reference to compare the Cell to yet. It may be able to hang... maybe.

CharlieHustle
01-18-2004, 03:31 PM
But we have to think about one common denominator, the games. The ps2 is so great because it has a very large library, they go by quantity, and it seems to work for them. Now, if MS can release their system the same time or before the ps3, they better have a library to follow up, i dont care about clock speed and gigahertz, i care about games. Lets not forget that the DC was a greater system than the PS, and the N64 was a better system also, but the playstation had a ton of games for the system, which made it successful. MS is doin the right thing with the advertising everywhere, i see the XBOX logo every fifteen minutes now. Thats good, make the xbox a household name.

Trento52
01-18-2004, 10:21 PM
what kind of prices are we looking at here for these things too because i will probably wait along while which i really don't want to.

colosso
01-18-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by CharlieHustle
But we have to think about one common denominator, the games. The ps2 is so great because it has a very large library, they go by quantity, and it seems to work for them. Now, if MS can release their system the same time or before the ps3, they better have a library to follow up, i dont care about clock speed and gigahertz, i care about games. Lets not forget that the DC was a greater system than the PS, and the N64 was a better system also, but the playstation had a ton of games for the system, which made it successful. MS is doin the right thing with the advertising everywhere, i see the XBOX logo every fifteen minutes now. Thats good, make the xbox a household name. remenber this buddy,quantity doesn't make a diference for real gamers,but quality does it and last year with great tittles like KOTOR,PGR2,RTCW,CRIMSON SKIES AND COUNTER STRIKE the xbox prove it once again,just like HALO got game of the year award in 2001 and KOTOR in 2003,xbox will rule the world again with amazing tittles of the caliber like NINJA GAIDEN,FABLE,HALO 2,B.C,HALF-LIFE 2 AND DOOM 3. these are just a few to name,but do you really think the ps2 has a chance to win this year ? i don't think so,so keep that in mind and remenber quantity doesn't make it always,but quality does.:cheers:

Scott7
01-20-2004, 11:53 AM
Here's my two cents in the matter.

When PS2 came out I was like "Wicked! PS2's got everything! DVD, Cd, game quality" and I played it a couple times, here and there, it's nothing great....the Playstation controller sucks crap....it's way too small.

Then Xbox came out. I was like "HOLY CRAP this is gonna be so sweet!" I wanted it sooo bad. and I finally got it this christmas. People complain about the controller. I say....screw you...the controller is wicked. it fits my hands perfectly. Not only the hardware.....but the game graphics, the sound quality, Xbox Live, System link own the competition. Can PS2 even link with other PS2's and play over a network? can you d/l music onto ur PS2 and play it during games?

Sony can try all they want. but Microsoft's got the bling bling and the means to make the best gaming platform seen ever.:cheers: