PDA

View Full Version : Has XBox lost its competitive edge?



CableKC
04-01-2004, 08:19 PM
Let me start off by saying that I am a huge XBox fan and not some PS2 troll roaming XBox forums.

I think that when Xbox started out.....Microsoft had a real opportunity to take away a significant share of the market from PS2. With clear advantages on the hardware level ( built in HD and NIC Card, far superior graphics card, more robust components actually built in the 21st century, and the eventual addition of XBox Live ), I would think that it would be able to close the gap significantly by now.

However, with the addition of the PS2 Hard drive, increased online play for many of the PS2 games ( like Final Fantasy, SOCOM and the EA Sports games ), and the market share that the PS2 has with its game library ( many popular games that are exclusive to the PS2 ); I think that Xbox has lost its competitive edge.

No longer can XBox say that it is the only console game that boasts an online community. No longer can Xbox say that it is the only console with a Hard drive to allow for downloads.

Now....the only clear advantage that the XBox has over the PS2 is superior hardware and graphics. You would think that this would provide XBox an advantage in creating far superior games over the last couple of years.......but how many truly standout games have come out on the XBox compared to the PS2? Halo? KOTOR? what else?

Don't get me wrong....this is not to say that it hasn't made great strides and hasn't closed the market share gap between PS2 and XBox. I would say that the XBox has made the biggest impact of any console system against PS2.

Just my thoughts.......

CRAYMAN
04-01-2004, 08:27 PM
Well for one thing, xbox is a better value as it has everything "preloaded".
And secondly, xbox definitely has a greater library of (current)A++ titles.
Thirdly, their online package is better.
Finally, most games that are released for the PS2, are also released on the Xbox but are enhanced.

***How could you fail to mention Ninja Gaiden, PGR2 and Pandora Tomorrow???***

SnoochyBoochy
04-01-2004, 10:04 PM
xbox is the bomb.
but i'd buy a ps2 if the price dropped a little more. maybe... erm.. well maybe not. i'd rather buy booze

Xorg
04-01-2004, 10:17 PM
The fact that not every ps2 has a harddrive, not every game has harddrive support

SnoochyBoochy
04-01-2004, 10:23 PM
couldnt you just save ur games on the hard drive instead of the memory card now?

Xorg
04-01-2004, 10:32 PM
couldnt you just save ur games on the hard drive instead of the memory card now?
What I meant for harddrive support is that not every ps2 has a harddrive so not every game will support it by making game saves bigger than the memory card size i.e. KOTOR game save wont fit in a memory card

Ninjermy
04-01-2004, 11:15 PM
yes some of that may be true about XBOX loosing its edge, but still XBOX is the top-of-the-line console system out. the graphics are speed are way above PS2 and XBL is great. dont forget XBOX was first to have the harddrive and XBL. PS2 had to just keep up with microsoft.
basically my point is xbox is still the greatest console system out there

Slowride
04-01-2004, 11:15 PM
No, Xbox hasn't lost it's competitive edge for reasons mentioned by crayman. Worst. Thread. Ever.

TheWheelMan
04-02-2004, 01:41 AM
And just wait until xbox 2 is out its ganna rock ps3 and whatever the **** nintendo is doing i really dont care lol ive never owned a nintendo product other then a gameboy and i never intend to buy another nintendo product :p sooo stick that in your pipe and smoke it nintendo ill go down to japan and boot **** the head of nintendo :hump:

l Maximus l
04-02-2004, 01:54 AM
I believe Sony is milking the PS2 for all it's worth. How many peripherals are they going to add to become an XBox? Definately not enough.

1. Memory cards are a thing of the past...so, they add a hard-drive. Did I hear "seperate purchase"? Oh, and if a person doesn't want the hard-drive, $24.99 will allow them to purchase a memory card just so they can save the progress on the games gamers play.

2. 2 available controller ports. There is an added peripheral called a multi-tap that allows PS2 owners to play up to four people. Did I hear "seperate purchase"? Too bad there are only a handful of games on the PS2 that support up to four players...and they pretty much include sports games for the most part. Honestly, there's nothing worse than being stuck playing a receiver, lineman, or some other position during a game of Madden football while your buddy is having a blast playing quarterback.

3. I don't remember the PS2 supporting High Definition...except for a select few games...and certainly not true 5.1 DD SS. For an HDTV owner like me, there's no way I would pick up a PoS2.

4. PS2 has an on-line community? Actually, it doesn't. It's on-line system is sub-par to XBox...by far. This on-line system for PS2 is developer based. It's far more complex than XBox Live to get people together. On-line stats? Forget about that option.

5. What innovative games, again, are there for PS2 that XBox is trying to compete with? With every single game, XBox has a different one that steps up the benchmark higher...and if XBox doesn't have it, it's already in the process of being made. Final Fantasy? Geez...talk about a franchise that can't live up to Final Fantasy XII...they still can't do it. I think Fable is going to blow the socks off of Final Fantasy.

6. And more about games: XBox has better versions of the same game. Ubisoft, for example, develops the same games on the XBox as it does for PS2, however, the XBox versions are far more superior in every way. Rainbow Six: 3, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, and Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is likely to head to PS2 as well, but, seriously dummied down simply to maximize the PS2 hardware. All of this and the same price tag for each game.

7. It's also not fair to say that XBox is extremely far behind PS2 regarding sales because PS2 had a 1-year head start. But, look at the games...XBox has nearly as many games as PS2 does...not too shabby.

I mean, I could write a book about this subject...the way I see it is if a true gamer doesn't own an XBox by now, they must be: 1. A complete idiot, 2. Still saving up to purchase an XBox, or 3. A "true gamer" in denial.

Other than that, I would like to mention a few exclusive games on XBox or that are coming to XBox that wouldn't even operate properly on a PS2:

1. Halo
2. Halo 2
3. DOOM 3
4. Half Life 2
5. Ninja Gaiden
6. Fable
7. B.C.
8. Rallisport Challenge 2
9. Dead or Alive: Ultimate
10. Knights of the Old Republic

A PS2 couldn't even operate any of those games due to the fact that it has 1/3 the processor capability, 1/3 the graphical capability, and a lack of a hard-drive (which is required to operate these games).

Just FYI: Please don't think I'm bashing your thread...because I'm not. Though, I will say it's pretty stubborn to say that the XBox has lost it's competetive edge...this is Microsoft we are talking about. MS doesn't give up until it's on top...and it will be. In the meantime, I'll be like every other gamer out there and reap the benefits of the console war.

And, by the way, welcome to XBoxaddict :)

SnoochyBoochy
04-02-2004, 09:11 AM
max, ur my hero.

all i hear from my stupid friends and old boss is... well xbox has like, no games.
ARRRGGGHHHH

CRAYMAN
04-02-2004, 09:50 AM
This guy is FOS, no way is he a "huge Xbox fan". He neglects to mention Ninja Gaiden, Pandora Tomorrow, Rainbow 6 3, PGR2, and a slew of other Xbox exclusives that are "system sellers". The only games that have made me *mildly* yearn for a PS2 is the Ratchet & Clank series.

TheWheelMan
04-02-2004, 12:20 PM
Is anyone listening to me :( i said lets rally together and destroy nintendo :cuss: odelay' odelay' lol :rofl:

Duke
04-02-2004, 12:27 PM
Saying pandora and R6 are xbox exclusives is like saying that the GTA series is PS2 exlusive. EXCEPT WITH WAY LESS EXCLUSIVE TIME.

R6 is already out, and pandora will be.

I wouldn't say that xbox is so much losing it's competitve edge in the current market, it's the next one that is in question. They're more or less shooting for the same target date, which, i think, will nullify a lot of the hardware advantages the xbox has.

Personally, unless something drastically changes, I'll be buying the nextbox, and not the ps3, but who knows.

CRAYMAN
04-02-2004, 12:39 PM
Is anyone listening to me i said lets rally together and destroy nintendo odelay' odelay' lol

???Why kick the guy that's down???
Nintendo is a distant third competitor in the Next Gen War.

The PS2 is not even as good a product as the Gamecube. The Gamecube is a good product, but the loyal fan base of the PS2 and their aggressive marketing tactics is keeping Gamecube out of the running.

The only reason Microsoft is even close to the PS2 is due to the fact that they are aggressively marketing as well. Gamecube and Xbox are obviously superior products to the overpriced and outdated PS2, but only Microsoft has been able to weather the storm of Sony due to financial might.

CRAYMAN
04-02-2004, 01:17 PM
Saying pandora and R6 are xbox exclusives is like saying that the GTA series is PS2 exlusive. EXCEPT WITH WAY LESS EXCLUSIVE TIME.

I think most people understand that "exclusive" today means "temporarily exclusive" when it comes to third party titles.

And while some third party developers may be able to make some watered down versions of their titles they've developed for the Xbox, many are not even possible due to the constraints of the PS2 system.


I wouldn't say that xbox is so much losing it's competitve edge in the current market, it's the next one that is in question. They're more or less shooting for the same target date, which, i think, will nullify a lot of the hardware advantages the xbox has.

MAYBE the hardware advantages will be gone, but even still, Microsoft has a big jump in on-line gaming and I'm sure they're counting on that to be the difference.

l Maximus l
04-02-2004, 05:05 PM
...but only Microsoft has been able to weather the storm of Sony due to financial might.

Though I find it true that Microsoft has deep pockets, it's hardly the only reason why Microsoft has been able to weather the storm of Sony. XBox is a far superior product and XBox Live is nothing short of the best damn on-line forum in console history.

I know of a dude that was so damn anti-XBox that it was pathetic to hear him. On top of his strange convictions, by owning a PS1, he thought that it only made sense to get a PS2 so he could play his old PS1 games. The first question I asked was "Does your PS1 work?" He said "yes". My reply was: "Why don't you just play your PS1 games on your PS1?" He didn't say too much. But, to make a long story short, he ended up buying an XBox because he likes multi-player games (Far more XBox games support more than 2 people, unlike the PS2), he got 2 free games, and didn't have to purchase a memory card just to save the progress of the games he played. To him, what mattered most, in the end, was how much money he was spending. Clearly, the XBox is a much better value...and on top of that, it's a far superior system.

Trento52
04-02-2004, 05:11 PM
Actually world wide teh nintendo gamecube is in second place and xbox sort of behind as of i think february. Also ninja gaiden isn't a system seller, it is a hardcore gamers game which i think too many people classify it as. Also gamecube has pitful game sales except for there most known or first party titles. Nintendo doesn't support there third party developers adn i think is losing it's competitive edge but only is competitive for the price it is. I am tempted to get one for resident evil 4 if capcom doesn't go broke from an 89 million dollar loss.

Oh and Maximus you can add a crap load more games to your list that ps2 would blow up or start on fire trying to play like

full spectrum warrior
operation flashpoint
Otogi 2
The chronicals of Rid****
Far Cry
Project gotham racing 2
Jade empire
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Ninja Gaiden
K.O.T.O.R.
mechassault 2
Tron 2.0 killer app
painkiller
Kameo elements of power
Conker live and uncut
theif 3 deadly shadows
True fantasy online

Duke
04-02-2004, 05:19 PM
Exactly. Only xbox has weathered the storm? Then why are they in third now?

Xbox is the only system I own and the only one I want to (currently), but you all sound like smilebit singing the praises of nintendo.

CRAYMAN
04-02-2004, 06:05 PM
Though I find it true that Microsoft has deep pockets, it's hardly the only reason why Microsoft has been able to weather the storm of Sony. XBox is a far superior product and XBox Live is nothing short of the best damn on-line forum in console history.

Maximus, you keep stating the same things I've already said. :huh:
Lay off the booze man :cheers:

CRAYMAN
04-02-2004, 06:16 PM
Exactly. Only xbox has weathered the storm? Then why are they in third now?

They may be in third as far as system sales, but you must realize, that's not the only factor to consider. Profit is the primary indicator. Gamecube is probably the worst investment Nintendo has made since that red-game-system-thing you look into. I can't believe they are still selling the Cube for 99 bux. It's a great little system, much better than the Pis2.

CRAYMAN
04-02-2004, 06:27 PM
Also ninja gaiden isn't a system seller, it is a hardcore gamers game which i think too many people classify it as.

I see your point, kind of. But we're both just hypothesizing from our own points of view. YOU probably feel that NG is too challenging, while I found it spot on, but I would not have been upset with an EASY setting. I just would have had no use for it. I still predict it will be a system seller, however not as much as it would have been with an EASY setting included or at least a setting easier.

CableKC
04-02-2004, 08:44 PM
Ahh.....nothing like stirring up the SH*T.

I do not doubt that the XBox still has far superior hardware, sound and graphics. I was trying to point out that the features that made the XBox "special" ( Online gaming, built in harddrive for downloads ) are no longer "special" but another added feature that their primary competitor now has. I grant that the PS2 Harddrive was just released and may not have any real uses now other then being used for Final Fantasy or saving games to the HD. In addition, the Online PS2 Community may not be as mature as the XBox Live community. A little less then 2 years ago, the PS2 did not have either of these features. The XBox had all this time to gain ground in the console wars against the PS2 with XBox live and the added benefit of "Free downloadable content". But who is to say that within the next 1-2 years that the PS2 does not build on these essential pieces ( HD and Online games ) to make it difficult for the XBox to gain any new ground before XBox Next or the PS3 comes out?

At the end of the day...even with the XBox superior hardware, sound and graphics.....when someone asks..."who is the market leader in Console gaming?" The answer is the same now as it was 3 or 4 years ago....."the PS2 ( with inferior hardware and graphics ) with the XBox steadily gaining ground and Nintendo falling behind."

The Xbox had its chance to become the "Windows" of the Console world...to completely dominate over the PS2 with far superior hardware, graphics and capabilities...but with the way things are going....the Xbox may end up becoming the "Apple" of the Console world. A console that may or may not fade away that has a strong and devoted following....but clearly not the market leader of the Console world.

I am hoping that something changes....whether it is to bite the bullet to come up with some agreement with EA or a change in direction in creating any other game besides FPS games......cuz I don't want the XBox to go the way of the "Dreamcast" or "Saturn".

Anthony4sho
04-02-2004, 08:54 PM
There is only one and one reason only why the PS2 is still #1: They have WAY too many ignorant fanboys who believe the xbox is evil because bill gates made it. These fanboys then spread the word to the new incoming gamers that don't know any better. And what to the new ones do? Buy a PS2 and a copy of Madden 2004.

Trento52
04-02-2004, 11:45 PM
I see your point, kind of. But we're both just hypothesizing from our own points of view. YOU probably feel that NG is too challenging, while I found it spot on, but I would not have been upset with an EASY setting. I just would have had no use for it. I still predict it will be a system seller, however not as much as it would have been with an EASY setting included or at least a setting easier.


I love ninja gaiden and when i play other games i try to run up the wall and stuff but they just suck. The difficulty was too easy on normal in my opinion but then hard was really challenging but after two times of playing it i wanted something else. Oh and if you max out the wooden sword it becomes really good especially if you do the double essence attack. Very cool. Costs more about 100 000 essence but i think it is worth it.

n e ways

Ps2 is number one because back when it was new it had a wide fan base but also it was the only one available compared to the dreamcast which i still love (soul Calibur 1 owns the sequel). Ps2 was the hottest system and many casual gamers and hardcore got the system. Then when new systems came out alot of the people already had ps2's and people making decisions would look at the new systems but everyone else had a ps2 and saw the ripe amount of games on the shelves and ps2 was the best bet for them. Another thing is ps2 has exclusive deals with games that people will buy any system for and also alot of the casual gamers love EA and EA loves the PS2. That is my opinion because everyone got a ps2 around here early and doesn't want another system. There is probably alot more to the story but that is what i think.

Tony_Macaroni
04-03-2004, 12:42 AM
I believe Sony is milking the PS2 for all it's worth. How many peripherals are they going to add to become an XBox? Definately not enough.

1. Memory cards are a thing of the past...so, they add a hard-drive. Did I hear "seperate purchase"? Oh, and if a person doesn't want the hard-drive, $24.99 will allow them to purchase a memory card just so they can save the progress on the games gamers play.

2. 2 available controller ports. There is an added peripheral called a multi-tap that allows PS2 owners to play up to four people. Did I hear "seperate purchase"? Too bad there are only a handful of games on the PS2 that support up to four players...and they pretty much include sports games for the most part. Honestly, there's nothing worse than being stuck playing a receiver, lineman, or some other position during a game of Madden football while your buddy is having a blast playing quarterback.

3. I don't remember the PS2 supporting High Definition...except for a select few games...and certainly not true 5.1 DD SS. For an HDTV owner like me, there's no way I would pick up a PoS2.

4. PS2 has an on-line community? Actually, it doesn't. It's on-line system is sub-par to XBox...by far. This on-line system for PS2 is developer based. It's far more complex than XBox Live to get people together. On-line stats? Forget about that option.

5. What innovative games, again, are there for PS2 that XBox is trying to compete with? With every single game, XBox has a different one that steps up the benchmark higher...and if XBox doesn't have it, it's already in the process of being made. Final Fantasy? Geez...talk about a franchise that can't live up to Final Fantasy XII...they still can't do it. I think Fable is going to blow the socks off of Final Fantasy.

6. And more about games: XBox has better versions of the same game. Ubisoft, for example, develops the same games on the XBox as it does for PS2, however, the XBox versions are far more superior in every way. Rainbow Six: 3, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, and Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is likely to head to PS2 as well, but, seriously dummied down simply to maximize the PS2 hardware. All of this and the same price tag for each game.

7. It's also not fair to say that XBox is extremely far behind PS2 regarding sales because PS2 had a 1-year head start. But, look at the games...XBox has nearly as many games as PS2 does...not too shabby.

I mean, I could write a book about this subject...the way I see it is if a true gamer doesn't own an XBox by now, they must be: 1. A complete idiot, 2. Still saving up to purchase an XBox, or 3. A "true gamer" in denial.

Other than that, I would like to mention a few exclusive games on XBox or that are coming to XBox that wouldn't even operate properly on a PS2:

1. Halo
2. Halo 2
3. DOOM 3
4. Half Life 2
5. Ninja Gaiden
6. Fable
7. B.C.
8. Rallisport Challenge 2
9. Dead or Alive: Ultimate
10. Knights of the Old Republic

A PS2 couldn't even operate any of those games due to the fact that it has 1/3 the processor capability, 1/3 the graphical capability, and a lack of a hard-drive (which is required to operate these games).

Just FYI: Please don't think I'm bashing your thread...because I'm not. Though, I will say it's pretty stubborn to say that the XBox has lost it's competetive edge...this is Microsoft we are talking about. MS doesn't give up until it's on top...and it will be. In the meantime, I'll be like every other gamer out there and reap the benefits of the console war.

And, by the way, welcome to XBoxaddict :)

congratulations...u just described exactly what every gamer thinks but cannot put in words...ur my hero! :hail: :hail:

l Maximus l
04-03-2004, 07:44 PM
Ahh.....nothing like stirring up the SH*T.

I do not doubt that the XBox still has far superior hardware, sound and graphics. I was trying to point out that the features that made the XBox "special" ( Online gaming, built in harddrive for downloads ) are no longer "special" but another added feature that their primary competitor now has. I grant that the PS2 Harddrive was just released and may not have any real uses now other then being used for Final Fantasy or saving games to the HD. In addition, the Online PS2 Community may not be as mature as the XBox Live community. A little less then 2 years ago, the PS2 did not have either of these features. The XBox had all this time to gain ground in the console wars against the PS2 with XBox live and the added benefit of "Free downloadable content". But who is to say that within the next 1-2 years that the PS2 does not build on these essential pieces ( HD and Online games ) to make it difficult for the XBox to gain any new ground before XBox Next or the PS3 comes out?

At the end of the day...even with the XBox superior hardware, sound and graphics.....when someone asks..."who is the market leader in Console gaming?" The answer is the same now as it was 3 or 4 years ago....."the PS2 ( with inferior hardware and graphics ) with the XBox steadily gaining ground and Nintendo falling behind."

The Xbox had its chance to become the "Windows" of the Console world...to completely dominate over the PS2 with far superior hardware, graphics and capabilities...but with the way things are going....the Xbox may end up becoming the "Apple" of the Console world. A console that may or may not fade away that has a strong and devoted following....but clearly not the market leader of the Console world.

I am hoping that something changes....whether it is to bite the bullet to come up with some agreement with EA or a change in direction in creating any other game besides FPS games......cuz I don't want the XBox to go the way of the "Dreamcast" or "Saturn".

Let's not forget that the Playstation was the new kid on the block at one time. Only Sega and Nintendo were the two big consoles...then Sony came in...it wasn't well received at first until it became mainstream. The XBox is simply doing the same thing...it's becoming more mainstream every single day.

MS knew from the get go that the XBox would take a while to become the number one console. But, like I said, XBox is becoming more mainstream every single day.

Remember a long time ago...people used to say "I'm going to play Nintendo"...or "I'm going to play Sega"...instead of saying "I'm going to play some games". And, in the past few years, the sentence "I'm going to go play some Playstation" slowly took over... And now, I'm hearing more and more people saying "I'm going to play some XBox".

Think about that for a moment. I said it a couple times and I'll say it again...XBox is becoming more mainstream every single day...give it time and it will be the dominant console.

And, by the way, XBox will never go down the road of the Dreamcast (R.I.P.)... Do you realize that Microsoft has never backed down on something they put their minds to? Remember how Tivo used to be considered a joke? More and more people are finally buying Tivo now, for example.

Tony_Macaroni
04-04-2004, 02:21 PM
ur right, but i think xbox next may be a problem because of no HD, not pbeing able to play xbox 1 games, and they are tryin so hard to get xbox 2 out b 4 ps3, they are rushing wit these memory/flash stix

Highlite23
04-04-2004, 03:31 PM
Just a note on the PS2 Hard Drive. Currently the only HD available for the PS2 resides in the Final Fantasy XI Bundle, you get the game and a 40GB HD for $100.00.

Now on the outside that looks like a great deal, kinda (A game that would have retailed for $50 and a HD you could buy for $50 if you did a little leg work) the real issue is this, the HD can only be used for Final Fantasy XI...you still can't use it for game saves, music, etc...

I own all three systems still, and I still prefer the XBOX, not that the others don't have something to offer, but let's talk in 2005-06, when the real war will begin.

In the meantime enjoy the games.

Xbox4all
04-04-2004, 07:23 PM
All Sony cares about is Money, not the gamers, thats why I like Xbox better. Not many companies will lose 3 Billion for u, but microsoft will cause they care.

Tony_Macaroni
04-04-2004, 08:01 PM
All Sony cares about is Money, not the gamers, thats why I like Xbox better. Not many companies will lose 3 Billion for u, but microsoft will cause they care.
so true..........

CharlieHustle
04-04-2004, 09:29 PM
, but let's talk in 2005-06, when the real war will begin.

In the meantime enjoy the games.

Amen, this console war is a marathon not a sprint. I didnt expect ms to House ***** on it s first try. Did anyone??? Ms has a very good fan base for a system thats only 2-3 yrs old. Especially considering the giant name sony looming overhead with a year head start. Ms has LIVE, which is their trump card, and also their games are usually top notch. I dont care if MS is third in sales, hell, ms would be in first if they drop the price to 99 dollars, we all know that, but thats an act of desperation if they do, right nintendo??? I remember when i was about to buy a Ps2 the summer before the xbox was released, had the money and all, but, there was no game that to sway me to buy the ps2. None at all, so at that point i was happy with my DC(oh how i miss it). I didnt even consider the xbox until i saw that one game that made me buy the system, lets say it together "HALO"! To this date, i have never bought as many games for another system like im doin now for the xbox.

CRAYMAN
04-05-2004, 10:36 AM
I don't care if XBOX2 is backwards compatible. I'll just put one in one room to play DVD's + games and one in another. What's the big deal?

Add to that, to make XBOX2 backwards compatible will be more costly and likely drive up the price of the XBOX2.

CRAYMAN
04-05-2004, 10:39 AM
[QUOTE]All Sony cares about is Money, not the gamers, thats why I like Xbox better. Not many companies will lose 3 Billion for u, but microsoft will cause they care./QUOTE]


Are you kidding?

MS is losing money in hopes that software sales will make up for the loss in $ and other reasons. It's a "loss leader".
Now I think MS is a good company but, C'MON!

Casper
04-05-2004, 02:21 PM
http://penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040405l.jpg

Heh, anyways, the thing that I'm looking at between the distinct advantages on both sides are that PS2 has the largest library of any console, expanding through more genres than MS and Nin have combined. RPG fans won't even sniff at an XBox being that it doesn't have many at all. But I'm no RPG fan, so I stick with the console that has the best FPS and Sports games, as well as the best online gaming with voice - something that still isn't perfected yet, but has me drooling to play it constantly.

Also, about the next console war - does anyone realize that IBM has almost complete control over what the hardware will be in all 3 consoles? They signed a deal to make the chips for all 3 and will be making the boards also. I had a nice drunken talk with the CFO of IBM when I was in Toronto for the Pandora premiere and I have a feeling that IBM has something up their sleeve - but with the background that has occurred between the 2 companies, MS will be the one getting screwed (or the lower end of the deal). It's going to be very interesting what happens with that - I'm still shocked that all 3 companies were dumb enough to go with IBM - and not get a company that would be exclusive for them.

CableKC
04-05-2004, 04:21 PM
Although currently the PS2 HD isn't used for anything more then saving Content for Final Fantasy Online...do you honestly think that using the PS2 HD for Final Fantasy is all that the PS2 HD is going to be used for?

You don't think that now that the PS2 has its funky Network Adapter that its going to stand still and make SOCOM only and ( for now ) the EA Sports games its only Online games? The PS2 can now expand further into Online for both the RPG, sports and FPS genre whereas the Xbox has only truly ventured into the FPS genre with a failed attempt in its XSN network.

My point is not that the XBox sucks compared to the PS2 now that it has a HD and Network adapter. Personally, I don't even play with my PS2 and only my Xbox.

My point is that the XBox had a chance to gain a stronger foothold against the PS2 ( before the PS2 came out with its own HD and network adapter that allowed Online gaming ) years ago. From now until the PS3 and XBox Next comes out.....the PS2 has that amount of time to increase the use of the PS2 HD and make more and more of those Online games. But now that the PS2 canablized those key features, it will be difficult for Microsoft to do increase its market share cuz those features that made the XBox special are no longer special.

Tony_Macaroni
04-05-2004, 05:04 PM
ssshhh ur hurting its feelings!

CRAYMAN
04-05-2004, 05:36 PM
My point is that the XBox had a chance to gain a stronger foothold against the PS2 ( before the PS2 came out with its own HD and network adapter that allowed Online gaming ) years ago. From now until the PS3 and XBox Next comes out.....the PS2 has that amount of time to increase the use of the PS2 HD and make more and more of those Online games.

While your point may be valid, I really don't think the PS2 HD will be much of a factor.
By the time developers have time to consider making use of it, the next generation will be upon us.

l Maximus l
04-05-2004, 08:22 PM
Although currently the PS2 HD isn't used for anything more then saving Content for Final Fantasy Online...do you honestly think that using the PS2 HD for Final Fantasy is all that the PS2 HD is going to be used for?

You don't think that now that the PS2 has its funky Network Adapter that its going to stand still and make SOCOM only and ( for now ) the EA Sports games its only Online games? The PS2 can now expand further into Online for both the RPG, sports and FPS genre whereas the Xbox has only truly ventured into the FPS genre with a failed attempt in its XSN network.

My point is not that the XBox sucks compared to the PS2 now that it has a HD and Network adapter. Personally, I don't even play with my PS2 and only my Xbox.

My point is that the XBox had a chance to gain a stronger foothold against the PS2 ( before the PS2 came out with its own HD and network adapter that allowed Online gaming ) years ago. From now until the PS3 and XBox Next comes out.....the PS2 has that amount of time to increase the use of the PS2 HD and make more and more of those Online games. But now that the PS2 canablized those key features, it will be difficult for Microsoft to do increase its market share cuz those features that made the XBox special are no longer special.


Once more and more people realize that the hard-drive for the PS2 is, right now, only useful for Final Fantasy and not their old games, it will flop just like the PSX. I'm working my last week at an electronics retailer that I work at part-time and we have yet to sell a single PS2 with Final Fantasy and the HD.

Seriously...people that own a PS2 now generally don't want to spend $100 more dollars to play a game...not even this game. Secondly, for anyone that is new to purchasing a PS2 that doesn't own one already definately are not candidates for spending even more money to buy one that has a HD. There's a lot of cheap SOB's out there :D

MikeMan91389
04-05-2004, 08:53 PM
wowza, max, ur posts are top of the line


the four way adapter BLOWS

it only works sumtimes, and i hated it... thats when i got out of PS2

CRAYMAN
04-06-2004, 11:34 AM
Once more and more people realize that the hard-drive for the PS2 is, right now, only useful for Final Fantasy and not their old games, it will flop just like the PSX. I'm working my last week at an electronics retailer that I work at part-time and we have yet to sell a single PS2 with Final Fantasy and the HD.

Seriously...people that own a PS2 now generally don't want to spend $100 more dollars to play a game...not even this game. Secondly, for anyone that is new to purchasing a PS2 that doesn't own one already definately are not candidates for spending even more money to buy one that has a HD. There's a lot of cheap SOB's out there :D

Before people drop $100 on that, they'll more likely get a another console. I'd be more likely to pick up a Gamecube for example, than a peripheral for my aging console.

CableKC
04-06-2004, 02:49 PM
The PS2 HD may or may not be a flop. For all I know, it maybe thrown together with the rest of the crap peripherals that the PS2 has ( like that retarded Eye Camera piece of crap ). Hopefully, I am proven wrong between now and XBox Next and PS3.

I just hope that the powers that be at Microsoft/XBox change their minds about adding a built-in HD. They shouldn't sacrifice quality and performance to save bucks and to make the thing look smaller or they will end up becoming the next GameCube.

Hopefully, the people at Microsoft realize that the people that already bought the XBox will more then likely buy the XBox Next. As long as the cost of XBox Next isn't more then $300 bucks ( how much I paid for my XBox when it came out ) and the XBox isn't bigger then the TV, people will still buy it. Besides...within a couple of years of release......the cost of the system will go down.

odpr
04-06-2004, 04:19 PM
What I see when I look now on the market is this picture :

ps two is in the market over five years and still kicking, If u are a ps two fan u can go to sleep quietly at night because u know that if u buy another ps system you can sleep for another five or more years, and this is a really great life time span for a console.

about not been able to operate the games as the xbox ... welp all I can say is that before splinter cell cam out every one said that the light system is so complex that no console can operate it...barley half year pass and what do u know a magic happened! play station two gamers could play this game and u know what it's running very good on this system.
I have to admire how the game s and the graphics really upgraded themelsf in the playstation and how amazingly the programmers mange to use every bit of this console and make all the new games that come to the box also to the playstation.
but when I look on an xbox game , u will have to excuse me on this one, I don't see any big improvement in gfx, true they are very good but they look like this from day one.
the reason mainly is because xbox games are ports from the playstation, so u can't see that big of a difference.

so when it's coming to choose the next system, it's really funny to talk about that, because IO own the xbox barley two years, and already talking on upgrade, and not only me but every one here, while my ps body that own his machine, after five years still playing doesn't think on any upgrade, and he sure will buy the next playstation because he can play it for another six years...and not two..

CRAYMAN
04-06-2004, 05:09 PM
ps two is in the market over five years and still kicking, If u are a ps two fan u can go to sleep quietly at night because u know that if u buy another ps system you can sleep for another five or more years, and this is a really great life time span for a console.

It is a great Life Span, but it's an anomally. It's had no competition over this time frame. Since the Xbox has arrived, the Pis2 has suddenly started coming out with peripherals(online adapter, hard drive) because of competition. Basically they're trying to keep their client base distracted, "see, we got that too". So, don't think that because PS2 had a long unchallenged run, it will continue.


but when I look on an xbox game , u will have to excuse me on this one, I don't see any big improvement in gfx, true they are very good but they look like this from day one.

Well, first you're saying Xbox graphics look no better than PS2, then you say they look great, but haven't improved. And if I had to take a stab at it, I'll bet you're playing the Xbox on the same crappy TV, you've had for 20 years. To truly appreciate the graphics of the Xbox you need a quality television.

l Maximus l
04-06-2004, 06:22 PM
The PS2 HD may or may not be a flop. For all I know, it maybe thrown together with the rest of the crap peripherals that the PS2 has ( like that retarded Eye Camera piece of crap ). Hopefully, I am proven wrong between now and XBox Next and PS3.

I just hope that the powers that be at Microsoft/XBox change their minds about adding a built-in HD. They shouldn't sacrifice quality and performance to save bucks and to make the thing look smaller or they will end up becoming the next GameCube.

Hopefully, the people at Microsoft realize that the people that already bought the XBox will more then likely buy the XBox Next. As long as the cost of XBox Next isn't more then $300 bucks ( how much I paid for my XBox when it came out ) and the XBox isn't bigger then the TV, people will still buy it. Besides...within a couple of years of release......the cost of the system will go down.

MS has formerly announced that if the PS3 has a hard-drive, the XBox 2 will also have a hard-drive.

But, I think hard-drives may become a thing of the past with flash memory...that is if flash memory has enough storage.

l Maximus l
04-06-2004, 06:23 PM
About XBox graphics compared to PS2 graphics:

If anyone here hasn't played on an HDTV, you have no idea what you're missing when playing XBox.

CharlieHustle
04-06-2004, 11:36 PM
About XBox graphics compared to PS2 graphics:

If anyone here hasn't played on an HDTV, you have no idea what you're missing when playing XBox.


Amen to that too, i play on a 46" widescreen HDTV and the graphics are beautiful. Seeing games played on 480p is jaw dropping.

odpr
04-07-2004, 09:21 AM
you do understand that u are hanging on a very thin leaf... this is ridicules buy a console because it has an amazing gfx on hdtv which cost like a house?

Most of the games don't use this feature, my friend have a forty five inch Toshiba rear projection, it was really amazing to play on it, but when we hooked a playstation on it was also good, so playing on big tv;s is something good no matter what console u playing, and believe me that ps three will have a hdtv format in it, and much more formats that u haven’t heard of because as u know Sony is manufacturing TV’s most of the time..


pay attantion how mcu time we spend here talking on how sony is that , and how sony is going to do that, instead of playing, whilke people that have sony never speak on the box , and mainly playing thier console, and not attanding this forums as much as we do, our presence here is just a prof of how much we are angry with what we got. (to this point again I will say xbox is better then ps two, but the next gen is diffrent story.)

odpr
04-07-2004, 09:25 AM
It is a great Life Span, but it's an anomally. It's had no competition over this time frame. Since the Xbox has arrived, the Pis2 has suddenly started coming out with peripherals(online adapter, hard drive) because of competition. Basically they're trying to keep their client base distracted, "see, we got that too". So, don't think that because PS2 had a long unchallenged run, it will continue.

thier client base distracted ? ? hello?! they are leading the industry to five to one ..



Well, first you're saying Xbox graphics look no better than PS2, then you say they look great, but haven't improved. And if I had to take a stab at it, I'll bet you're playing the Xbox on the same crappy TV, you've had for 20 years. To truly appreciate the graphics of the Xbox you need a quality television.

no all I say that when it's a pure xbox game , something microsft devloped I don't see any big diffrence in gfx, take for example raly sport challenge one and the next one that coming is exectly the same gfs, while other games surly can't show the power of the box becuase they are just ports of ps two games with little improvment, while if u take a look at games that came to the play station at first and now, u will see a big improvment..

CRAYMAN
04-07-2004, 11:03 AM
this is ridicules buy a console because it has an amazing gfx on hdtv which cost like a house?
It's not our fault you live in a hole. Welcome to the 20th century.
I didn't buy my TV based on a console. I already had a large screen TV, well before I purchased my Xbox(when I play Xbox games there is a significant difference in picture/graphic quality).


my friend have a forty five inch Toshiba rear projection, it was really amazing to play on it, but when we hooked a playstation on it was also good,
Rear projection TV's are going to look like CRAP, especially if they're not HDTV.



so playing on big tv;s is something good no matter what console u playing :rofl: (I just put this up to laugh at it.)




and believe me that ps three will have a hdtv format in it, and much more formats that u haven’t heard of because as u know Sony is manufacturing TV’s most of the time..
I don't know why they would include HDTV format since "playing on big tv;s is something good no matter what console u playing"


(to this point again I will say xbox is better then ps two, but the next gen is diffrent story.)
This is driving me nuts. After spending so much time stating how the PS2 is better, then you say "but even if it isn't, next gen is diffrent story"

Let me say, IF I already had a PS2, I don't know if there is enough of a difference to warrant an Xbox purchase, however the Xbox is clearly superior and if you're having to choose between an Xbox and a PS2 the choice is clear.

maneatingcow
04-07-2004, 11:11 AM
In my honest opinion, Microsoft hasn’t lost it’s edge, it’s just holding back. The Xbox’s system life is slowly dying. XBox 2 is too near to unload any revolutionary titles for the XBox.

Microsoft put a lot into the XBox to deliver some killer titles, develop an amazing online gaming community, and gather a major fanbase. The PS2 came out well before the XBox, had an existing fanbase of rabid fans, and was extremely hyped due to the “System Shortage” (Read Headlines: PS2 Sells Out, which is not so hard when stores got 1/3 of the systems they were promised).

Right now, Microsoft is pooling it’s assets into one major area: XBox Live. Anyone who has played it can agree it’s addictive as s***, and subscribed users are much more likely to purchase an XBox 2 over a PS3 if their live account can be used on all of the launch titles.

odpr
04-07-2004, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE=CRAYMAN]It's not our fault you live in a hole. Welcome to the 20th century.
I didn't buy my TV based on a console. I already had a large screen TV, well before I purchased my Xbox(when I play Xbox games there is a significant difference in picture/graphic quality).


In the hole I live in this tv's cost much less then other holes ...places u don't klnow probebly, some of them called paris,,,other london, WAKE UP MAN! USA isn't the only place in the world as u know (or udon't...) this tv's cost a furtune! in all the rest of the world, USA is the only place it cost less, and I say less , because the majority of people in the US DON"T have HDTV!


This is driving me nuts. After spending so much time stating how the PS2 is better, then you say "but even if it isn't, next gen is diffrent story"

All I AM SAYING (AND I DO IT IN CAPS LOCK CUZ I C U HAVE PROBLEM TO UNDERSTAND WHEN ITS IN NORMAL FONT .. ) IS THAT YOU CAN BET THAT THE NEXT (READ AGAIN NEXT! ) SYSTEM WILL BE PS, BECAUSE IT"S MUCH MORE EASY TO TRUST ON A SYSTEM THAT CAN LAST SIX YEARS RATHER THEN TWO!

CRAYMAN
04-07-2004, 02:18 PM
In the hole I live in this tv's cost much less then other holes ...places u don't klnow probebly, some of them called paris,,,other london, WAKE UP MAN! USA isn't the only place in the world as u know (or udon't...) this tv's cost a furtune! in all the rest of the world, USA is the only place it cost less, and I say less , because the majority of people in the US DON"T have HDTV!
I'm assuming this is some sort of retort or reply, but who knows...this must be how they talk over at PS2ADDICT??



All I AM SAYING (AND I DO IT IN CAPS LOCK CUZ I C U HAVE PROBLEM TO UNDERSTAND WHEN ITS IN NORMAL FONT ..

It's not going to matter if it's in CAPS or BOLD or Italics, because whatever form of b@st@rdized ??english?? you're speaking, I HAV PROBLIM TO NO WAT U SAY...4....2.....ME????

Xorg
04-07-2004, 03:39 PM
All I AM SAYING (AND I DO IT IN CAPS LOCK CUZ I C U HAVE PROBLEM TO UNDERSTAND WHEN ITS IN NORMAL FONT .. ) IS THAT YOU CAN BET THAT THE NEXT (READ AGAIN NEXT! ) SYSTEM WILL BE PS, BECAUSE IT"S MUCH MORE EASY TO TRUST ON A SYSTEM THAT CAN LAST SIX YEARS RATHER THEN TWO!

PS2 2000 - 2005/6
Xbox 2001 - 2005/6

so even if xbox came out in 2005 it would have at least 4 years, not 2

odpr
04-07-2004, 05:04 PM
I don't get it..
people here, and also microsoft say that next year they going to release it..

so if u calculate it's four years,, and it seems that microsoft and the press already talking on thier next system while playstation don't even hint on the next gen console..
so the thing is that people don't buy xbox because they hear that next year something new will come..

Maddenguy05
05-20-2004, 05:33 PM
xbox is the best its just added ea games...its now unstoppable...better graphics....better gameplay..better everything.... :hail: xbox is the is god of all systems....Ps2 :bang: can touch xbox...

-Natas-
05-20-2004, 06:42 PM
Ok, first off I would like to say that I did not read all these posts as some were huge so if any of this is a repeat....oops. I have a PS2 and was a big PS2 fan till recently. First off, they are not going to support the HDD as much as they said they were going too. The media player and demos were not included with the FFXI/HDD like they said they would and they did not say they were removed. Before I get flamed for spending $100 on a useless add on I did not buy it. I beta tested FFXI/HDD so for returning my beta by a set date Sony sent me the retail FFXI/HDD for Free. I think that $12.95 a month for a game is way too much green to play one game online. Sony is talking about charging to play games online by making a system similar to Live. They are just doing a lot of lying right now and I don't like being lied too. For these reasons I am supporting the Xbox and the Gamecube (I know what your thinking but I like the GC) more then the PS2.

Seckci
05-20-2004, 07:09 PM
I brung my xbox to school today and alot of people where saying damn i want an xbox its just they bought the ps2 since it came out first. Its abviouse that xbox would have way greater sales if it came out before ps2.

CarGuy
05-20-2004, 07:49 PM
I own all three.. Xbox is the best.. I just got a ps2 with FFXI and i have to say it's pretty addictive.. miss the voice chat but still lots a fun.

-Natas-
05-20-2004, 08:01 PM
Well, if you play FFXI with friends that have Live just use the chat in the Live dashboard while you play FFXI and you have voice chat. :cool:

l Maximus l
05-21-2004, 02:38 AM
Well, if you play FFXI with friends that have Live just use the chat in the Live dashboard while you play FFXI and you have voice chat. :cool:

lol, dude...come on, how many people actually do that compared to people that don't? The cool thing about XBL is that every game supports it and there is no question on how to get it to work ;)

-Natas-
05-21-2004, 02:33 PM
Actually, I have several friends online that play FFXI in this way. It was just a suggestion as it does work as long as you have a good BB connection. Me myself am just waiting for True Fantasy Live Online to come out in about a month since it does not seem to have any extra fees. :cool:

Xorg
05-21-2004, 04:02 PM
Actually, I have several friends online that play FFXI in this way. It was just a suggestion as it does work as long as you have a good BB connection. Me myself am just waiting for True Fantasy Live Online to come out in about a month since it does not seem to have any extra fees. :cool:
Were did you get the idea that its coming out next month??? If it is and everything you said is true than can you please give us a link for the news?

-Natas-
05-21-2004, 07:28 PM
This (http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/520377.asp?site=ESHOP) gave me the idea that it comes out next month. But who really know's cause Xbox.com has TBA as a date and Gamestop (http://gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T000005) has a different date. It will be out when it's out I guess.... :p

Xorg
05-21-2004, 09:37 PM
well I never trusted gamestop or ebgames for release dates, as for the no extra fees seems pretty good

l Maximus l
05-22-2004, 04:14 AM
I'll never pay a fee above and beyond the XBL subscription, the purchase of the game, and my broadband internet access. I could care less how bad ass the game is...hopefully there won't be any additional fees, that's for damn sure.