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View Full Version : The End Of Games On CD! M$ Rep Info...



DOOM
04-06-2004, 11:41 PM
one of Microsoft's sales rep's was telling
us since dsl is becoming more wide
spread, because your getting 700 meg per sec on most
rates....

Soon Microsoft is going to run programs from
each software company. meaning no more CDs like adobe
photoshop,3ds Max, and so on...since connection will be
crazy in the near future. if you want Photoshop Or A Game you
will buy the license and run Photoshop from Microsoft's
server in real time. yes you will be able to save what
you do and work files on your pc.but no CD or
installing program in your own pc Or Game Console (XBOX2)!!!!!

So they are talking about running games straight from Microsoft
server. not sure how they will sell but its going to be
some sort of ip key.the guy said their server is
Called octopus.

SONY Is Having Similar Plans For Its PS3

I Think This Freaking SUXORS!
How Many People Will Be Put Of Work, No More Game Shops, No More Game
library's, No More Physical Games, No mres Game Shops To Chill Out In And Meet Other Gamers... And I Personally Will Be Put Out Of Work By This...
What A Bunch Of BULL CRAP!!!
If This Is The Future, I have enough games n systems,
i'll just play what I have and Screw em! :cry:

Looks Like The Reps Rite,
Check Out The Crap I Found About Sony's PS3: :mad:

Sony explains some neat features that will be packed into the PS3, including a hard drive and being able to be "intrinsically" linked to the PSX. The article also talks of broadband distribution of games too, by 2006.

Reeves spoke about Sony's "ultimate goal" for PlayStation 3 - "to get into electronic broadband distribution". By 2006, at which point Reeves says all Sony's current crop of hardware products should be available, the platform holder hopes we'll have always online access and viable broadband distribution. "It's going to have to be 2 or 3MB, something like that," he said. "Ken [Kutaragi]'s even talking about 30MB! And when it gets to that, then it is broadband distribution, and people then can just download whatever game they want. But it's got to be secure, and that's where DNAS [Sony's online security protocol] comes in."
LINK:
1.
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=6401
2.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/02/sony_talks_up_ps3/

Looks Like All Next Gen Consoles Are Doing This, This SUX!!! :mad:

Ninjermy
04-06-2004, 11:56 PM
i think its stupid. i mean i think it will be so abused and ripped off like people getting ahold of others "ip numbers" and everyone will be able to rip everything off. having actual CD's is like actually OWNING the game. without it you no longer will have your own hardcopy! i also think this iz teh tOt@L /\/00B sUx0rz

Chaotic
04-07-2004, 09:15 AM
700 meg per second :rofl: Let's be a little realistic here that's totally way off base... Most DSL and Cable don't even come close to that speed so i'm not sure where you go that info from. Also about companies going to No CD's, I'll believe it when i see it. We are years away from anything of this nature... At least 10 years IMO.

Fatnick
04-07-2004, 09:31 AM
yeah, i think the fastest connection you can get in the UK is 2mb i think. Mind you, it wasn't so long ago that the fastest was 500kb. It's a scary thought though...i mean, from the corporate point of view noone being able to own their own music, games, movies and software would be the ultimate way to prevent piracy.

Casper
04-07-2004, 09:40 AM
There's no way in hell this will be happening for awhile. The lines aren't even close to giving that much bandwidth, nor does MS have control over enough connections to be able to do this - say a connection drops while you're working on a Word doc for work, you will not only lose the program, but the file you were working on as well.

I smell something and it's gotta be a turd

Spaztic
04-07-2004, 09:55 AM
I will not buy any console that does this! Complete BS! :bang: :mad: :bang:

LiquidX
04-07-2004, 10:05 AM
one of Microsoft's sales rep's was telling us

This is where I stoped believing it. Why would a sales rep know about this? And how many times have we heard from a guy who works in a game store that overheard a conversation that Halo 2 is coming out next week and that it will be multi-platform? Besides, the idea itself seems really far-fetched. MS isnt retarded, they know this would not work because people want the hard copies. Also, this idea sounds like it would make piracy easier and we all know how anti-piracy MS is...

DOOM
04-07-2004, 11:23 AM
This Move Is Taking A Step Back, This Is Not Progress, This Is A Disaster...
Besides Being Put Out of A Job, I Wont Even Have The Games I Paid For...
Total, BS!
I Am A Store Owner, Game Collector, & Taking Away Hard Copies Of Games SUX! If I Buy It, I Want To Own It, Period!

No Fear 23
04-07-2004, 02:25 PM
well, i want to see the link to the story.


right now it is just rumors....and im sure this prolly wont happen bc there will be millions of ppl agianst this stupid plan

Carnage
04-07-2004, 04:03 PM
Hah! Imagine how expensive it would be to run fibre optic cabling to EVERY house in Canada/US.
Chaotic and Casper are right, we wont be seeing anything like this for years.

DOOM
04-07-2004, 05:33 PM
Looks Like The Reps Rite,
Check Out The Crap I Found About Sony's PS3: :mad:

Sony explains some neat features that will be packed into the PS3, including a hard drive and being able to be "intrinsically" linked to the PSX. The article also talks of broadband distribution of games too, by 2006.

Reeves spoke about Sony's "ultimate goal" for PlayStation 3 - "to get into electronic broadband distribution". By 2006, at which point Reeves says all Sony's current crop of hardware products should be available, the platform holder hopes we'll have always online access and viable broadband distribution. "It's going to have to be 2 or 3MB, something like that," he said. "Ken [Kutaragi]'s even talking about 30MB! And when it gets to that, then it is broadband distribution, and people then can just download whatever game they want. But it's got to be secure, and that's where DNAS [Sony's online security protocol] comes in."
LINK:
1.
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=6401
2.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/02/sony_talks_up_ps3/

Looks Like All Next Gen Consoles Are Doing This, This SUX!!! :mad:

Variation-XBA
04-07-2004, 07:23 PM
Why is Leo Back? :P

Either way, this won't happen for a LONG time, even if it was SOMEWHAT true.

Phantom is tryin the idea, it will flop.

Cable/dsl gets nowhere near 700k for the AVERAGE user. Yes I can get more, so can others, but many casual people dont, or care/know.

Even if it were true, ISP's wouldn't allow it for very long concidering the bandwidth that would be used over the time.

Your "rep" is a retard and should be fired, but thats assuming this is real "info" :P

l Maximus l
04-07-2004, 08:01 PM
Why is Leo Back? :P

Either way, this won't happen for a LONG time, even if it was SOMEWHAT true.

Phantom is tryin the idea, it will flop.

Cable/dsl gets nowhere near 700k for the AVERAGE user. Yes I can get more, so can others, but many casual people dont, or care/know.

Even if it were true, ISP's wouldn't allow it for very long concidering the bandwidth that would be used over the time.

Your "rep" is a retard and should be fired, but thats assuming this is real "info" :P

lol, dude....no one is certain that the Phantom even exists :D

Variation-XBA
04-07-2004, 11:18 PM
lol, dude....no one is certain that the Phantom even exists :D


Ok.... IF it does, and if it even somehow sells.... it'll flop... :P

DOOM
04-08-2004, 08:21 AM
Why is Leo Back? :P

Either way, this won't happen for a LONG time, even if it was SOMEWHAT true.

Phantom is tryin the idea, it will flop.

Cable/dsl gets nowhere near 700k for the AVERAGE user. Yes I can get more, so can others, but many casual people dont, or care/know.

Even if it were true, ISP's wouldn't allow it for very long concidering the bandwidth that would be used over the time.

Your "rep" is a retard and should be fired, but thats assuming this is real "info" :P
Um, No I'm Not Leo, & My Rep Is Correct...
He Told Me About M$'s Plans & PS3 's Plans...
If You Look AtEarlier Posts, I Posted An Article About Thes Same Issue:

Looks Like The Reps Rite,
Check Out The Crap I Found About Sony's PS3: :mad:

Sony explains some neat features that will be packed into the PS3, including a hard drive and being able to be "intrinsically" linked to the PSX. The article also talks of broadband distribution of games too, by 2006.

Reeves spoke about Sony's "ultimate goal" for PlayStation 3 - "to get into electronic broadband distribution". By 2006, at which point Reeves says all Sony's current crop of hardware products should be available, the platform holder hopes we'll have always online access and viable broadband distribution. "It's going to have to be 2 or 3MB, something like that," he said. "Ken [Kutaragi]'s even talking about 30MB! And when it gets to that, then it is broadband distribution, and people then can just download whatever game they want. But it's got to be secure, and that's where DNAS [Sony's online security protocol] comes in."
LINK:
1.
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=6401
2.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/02/sony_talks_up_ps3/

Take Care...
& I Really Hope This Never Happens, Would Be Crap! :cuss:

Folgerboy
04-08-2004, 08:42 AM
The other thing to consider is that no one's said this will be the ONLY way software will be distributed to these consoles. It wouldn't be the first time games were distributed on different media for different requirements - remember the Sega Master system with cards and cartridges? - and any future consoles will likely still support a physical distribution method i.e. DVD or what have you. I mean, technically, even PS2 games are distributed in two different forms - CD-ROM (blue disc) for 700 mb and under, and DVD format for larger programs. We'll probably see some distribution model where games distributed by broadband transmission are offered at a lower price point to encourage gamers to adopt them, but I don't think it'll be forced on us. That sort of thing inspires too much resentment.

GuiltySpark
04-08-2004, 10:32 AM
The other thing to consider is that no one's said this will be the ONLY way software will be distributed to these consoles. It wouldn't be the first time games were distributed on different media for different requirements - remember the Sega Master system with cards and cartridges? - and any future consoles will likely still support a physical distribution method i.e. DVD or what have you. I mean, technically, even PS2 games are distributed in two different forms - CD-ROM (blue disc) for 700 mb and under, and DVD format for larger programs. We'll probably see some distribution model where games distributed by broadband transmission are offered at a lower price point to encourage gamers to adopt them, but I don't think it'll be forced on us. That sort of thing inspires too much resentment.

This is true. It is a fact that america and most definately other countries are far away from having the majority of their country online with broadband. It would simply be unlogical of M$ or any other company to do this in the near future. This might be possible if it compatible with multiple sources of software.

Oh and yes the Phantom is real, where have you been? They had a playable system at a recent expo. You can expect to see more of it at E3. I think CGW had something about it a couple months ago. Very impressive system.... very original.... its too bad the world isn't ready for something of that magnitude.

Reclaimer
04-08-2004, 10:57 AM
In an article I read awhile back in a Popular Mechanics, a Swedish research firm was able to develope a compression technology that allowed them to transfer a 800 meg file in just under a few seconds across the internet. The sender and recieve stations where a few miles away.
I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but the technology most certainly exists. But it will be years before it becomes mainstream. Years and years.
The Phantom is real as well, but I have my doubts on how well it's going to do this late in the next-gen wars, sporting a radical new media distrubution means.
Face it, people want a tangible CD or DVD to hold in their hands when they spend 50+ dollars (USD) for it. Nobody is going to put that much faith in their little game console that their 50 dollar download is safe and secure inside it, and that it will never get corrupted, or accidentally deleted or any other occurance or quirk that happens in every day computers, wether it was operator error or not.
I just doubt that they can replace the experience with going to the game store and throwing 50 bones on the counter and walking out with the game, and an instruction manual that you will inevitiably read for 30 min while sitting on the toilet taking a crap when you get home.
I further continue by stating that America is one of the least broadband connected countries in the global connectivity market. This would be a foolish venture to propose when your entire revenue is based on a US market of about 50% or less of people with broadband connections. This would make more sense if they just outlawed narrowband dial up all together. This is why the Phamtom is not going to do very well to begin with. Who's going to buy the games to download? The huge percentage of people still on dial up? Not a chance. So that's a ton of money you won't get.

kenji
04-08-2004, 06:04 PM
This would suck really bad if it were true. I know I don't have a DSL or cable connection, so there is no way I'm going to be gaming.

It can't be true, so stop posting that article over and over again.

ShannonX
04-08-2004, 08:24 PM
ah yeah, i can make a phantom console also. Its called designing a custom case and custom program and then putting a normal pc into the case. Thats all the phantom is, just another attempt at making money from fancy casing (alienware anybody?) The only thing different is that there is no optical drive and you have to get all your games from online. Heh yeah.


Speaking of high bandwidth, most cable companies in the united states dont have the infrastructure to run 10mbit connections and have a decent upload (512Kb/s minimum). You can tell this already where neighborhood nodes are vastly over populated and your internet crawls to a hault.

Dsl on the other hand doesn't have to worry about this, just at the CO or remote terminal. Of course, if your more than 9000 feet from the CO, good luck getting any type of "fast" connection. (as in faster than 3 - 4mbit download/s).

There is a dsl called vdsl which can hit 50mbit/s download speeds of course, the distance limitations are even more grealy increased. think 9000 feet from a CO or remote terminal is really short, well, with vdsl to get that full 50mbit potential, you have to be within 2000 feet or so, after than the drop off is horrific.

The only way your gonna get the type of speed necessary for this type of distribution is through gigabit fiber to the home or broadband over powerline (its still slower than most dsl connections now though although the potential for speed is in the hundreds of gigabits/s.)

Tony_Macaroni
04-08-2004, 10:02 PM
lets wait and see b 4 we start bangin out heads agains the wall about it :bang:

OC Noob
04-09-2004, 01:12 AM
I agree, total turdage.

First of all, the play a game stored on a server somewhere has no basis. A friend of a friend said his sisters cousin said an MS rep said blah, blah, blah...

The quoted PS3 stuff isn't that AT ALL. Its the same thing going on for a bunch of PC games now. You don't get the CD or play it from a remote server some where running the program. You download the whole program as it would be on a CD/DVD (with out the fluff crap of course) and install on your own PC

Same thing they are talking about the PS3 doing. Download the program to the hard drive and then install. There are thousands of programs and several full games you can do the same thing with on a PC.

1 mb connections are 1 megabit and 8 bits makes up a byte, so its really only a .125 megabytes or 125 kbytes (per second). Thats not even close enough to run a game from a remote location. While current video cards have something like 40-60 GB/s bandwidth and ram (as slow as it is) is limited to around 4-8 gb/s and hard drives are VERY slow at about (somewhat of a guess) 60-80 mb/s I really don't see how you could possibly run a game remotely with a 125 kb connection.

Heck most people in North America don't even have broadband. It used to be like 10% a few years ago and I'm sure its way up from that, but most PC users are still using stonage tools for internet. Two cups and a string ain't gonna cut it for a remote program and think of the massive servers.


Its just not plausable at this time or anywhere in the forseeable future. Download games, yes and thats not such a bad thing. Download and burn movies or games would be rather convenient. I like getting my Pocket PC programs with out having to go to the store. I would be nice to get movies and more full PC games that way.

Viper87227
04-09-2004, 01:50 PM
I doub't this will ever happen, it just isn't realistic. Think of all the people that would be streaming off the servers, it would be a helluva load, who knows if they can handle it. Also, you then have to worry about what if your server goes offline. You would literally be removing all funtionaity of software if its all streamed, people would not want to rely on something such as that when they can just install the software and know it will always work whenever they need it. In addition, it will probably be a helluva strain on your internet connection and stleast for playing games, your hardware, which completly elimantes anyone on an older PC or internet connection. MS knows ther are many people who wouldn't have PCs to handle this sort of technology, and there not just going to throw away there business... This is a retarded idea and probably nothing more than the mere pondering of the company, and someone tried to turn it into reality by saying its going to happen in the future. I can see alot of technical advances happening in 10-15 years that we cant even dream of now, but this will probably not happen for a long damn time, if ever...

ShannonX
04-09-2004, 05:56 PM
1 mb connections are 1 megabit and 8 bits makes up a byte, so its really only a .125 megabytes or 125 kbytes (per second). Thats not even close enough to run a game from a remote location. While current video cards have something like 40-60 GB/s bandwidth and ram (as slow as it is) is limited to around 4-8 gb/s and hard drives are VERY slow at about (somewhat of a guess) 60-80 mb/s I really don't see how you could possibly run a game remotely with a 125 kb connection.

your memory totals are close, but for ddr its closer to 2.7 - 3.2gigabytes max rate for the pc 2700 and 3200 modules (rdram is higher, but not as popular in PCs--- RDRAM devices may be configured into single-, dual- or quad-channel RIMM modules to support bandwidths from 1.6 GB/sec to 10.7 GB/sec and system memory capacities up to 8GB)

Well, video cards aren't quite that high yet (remember it has to go through the agp port)

Memory bandwidth for a graphics card (as in memory installed directly on the card and communicating with it - the card) on the other hand is: 30.4GB/sec --fx 5900 series from nvidia. actual graphics bandwidth is much, much slower note below.



Retaining backward compatibility with the older AGP 4x technology, AGP 8x doubles the graphics bandwidth of the AGP interface to 2.1 gigabytes per second (GB/s) which is designed to benefit applications on today's most popular workstation platforms. It is expected to impact the desktop market segment in 2003 as desktop applications become more bandwidth-intensive.





Heck most people in North America don't even have broadband. It used to be like 10% a few years ago and I'm sure its way up from that, but most PC users are still using stonage tools for internet. Two cups and a string ain't gonna cut it for a remote program and think of the massive servers.

your right, there are more, 27 million subscribers give or take a few million.

http://www.websiteoptimization.com/bw/0309/


Broadband Growth in the US
Broadband penetration in US homes increased by 1.09% in August. As of August 2003 broadband penetration was at 38.9%, up from 37.8% in July. This is higher than the average increase in broadband of .72% per month from October 1999 to July 2003. Extrapolating the data provided by Nielsen//NetRatings, broadband share in the US should exceed 50% by June of 2004 (see Figure 2).






regarding downloadable games from the net, i'm still able to burn a copy of the source files to cd or dvd if i desire to (like the lineage 2 beta). I still have a hardcopy in case my harddrive crokes and i didn't have a backup of my drive. Doing this same thing through a console would mean that if your content got destroyed (or you got anew console) you'd have to either redownload the content and/or rebuy it. And dont forget that MANY isps limit the amount you can download in a month to as little as 2 gigabytes. Hell you can get halfway through one download and get your connection shut off for the rest of the month. :yikes: :hump:

Chaotic
04-09-2004, 11:20 PM
Well since i see this stuff daily and am actually working on a few new projects right now fiber to the home is going to be coming sooner then we think. Like i stated earlier this whole "get rid of the cd/dvd" won't happen for a long long time. Like shannon stated their isn't the infrastructure available to support the type of constent load and support the bandwidth bottle necks users would face.

TrueBelieverUK*
04-10-2004, 10:04 AM
THIS IS JUST MAY PERSONAL OPINION

i dont think xbox 2/next will run wthout disks, but in the near future, people (gawd knows who) say that with the internet there will be no need to buy discs ever. there would be one big master pc/harddrive and all players in the house would be linked to it. you want a film, u pay, say, $10 and its on ur harddrive, you just wanna watch, you pay $3, you watch and tben it automaticly deletes itself. same with games and music.

i think (most of it) is true from articles 've read, or i could be speaking *****. ah well.

chris

Caesar SYN
04-10-2004, 12:00 PM
..Simply I think the idea is setup to lower costs on distribution of games... simply think about an OEM vs. a Full Software Package... paper.. box... takes money to make that... will the savings be passed onto you? Most likely not you will still pay the same price for it... just be able to D/L and burn it.. its done with many software titles out there now... this is just another medium for them to explore.. just wait though that 49.99 is not going to go down with this technology though... even though they are saving money..

E Nomini Patri
04-10-2004, 01:26 PM
Well since i see this stuff daily and am actually working on a few new projects right now fiber to the home is going to be coming sooner then we think.

I have fiber optics!

:cheers:

Chaotic
04-10-2004, 02:09 PM
I have fiber optics!

:cheers:


Yes, washington is one of the only states that has fiber right now... I forget the name of the company tho, what is it?

Faithhammer
04-10-2004, 04:56 PM
The only way I can see CD's actually being killed is when everything comes out on DVD format or something else. Relying simply on the internet is moronic. THere are still tons of areas that only have dial up access, and that is very unlikely to change anytime soon.