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View Full Version : OXM's Ghost Recon 2 preview...



Conchord
08-22-2004, 10:06 PM
This is it...I have finally lost all shreds of faith in OXM...they are SUPER PSYCHED (!!!) about GR 2! And why shouldn't they be? After all, it takes everything a tactical first person shooter should be (control over each squad member, first person ONLY) and removes them! Yes! GR 2 WILL ROCK! PCGamer criticized the game, and got tremendous feedback from readers saying how grateful they are to have a magazine that isn't going to suck every developer's **** that sends them endorsements...does anyone else have any idea what I'm talking about? I thought the no gun, first person, tactful Ghost Recon 1 was exactly what it should have been, instead of another boring FPS...am I wrong?

GTA3 Dude
08-22-2004, 10:44 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Ghost Recon was one of my favorite games, now, it is only looking average to below that.

Such a shame.

E Nomini Patri
08-23-2004, 03:54 PM
Ghost Recon 2 will kick ass. The first one and its expansion rocked my face off. Especially since it is 1st and 3rd person and I can switch whenever I want to. I hope the menus don't suck though. :/

JJaX
08-23-2004, 04:52 PM
I dont see the point of having 3rd person as an option...

You will be as effective as a deer on the battlefield playing from that view in a game like GR.

Yes I understand, it will go into 1st person when you go to AIM, but still, walking around you are still as good as dead in the 3rd person.

TheCovenant
08-26-2004, 05:44 PM
jjax, you said it bud.


I dont see real life marines going

"HOLD UP A SECOND YOU GUYS! lemme switch to third person real quick....okay now i can see what around that corner, but only if i get at the right angle, and if the camera doesnt keep zooing in when it crosses the corner......


OKAY! switching back to first person, because otherwise i can shoot for shi4t, and lets proceed....out of the helicopter..."





honestly, thisd person is lame. It changes the genre entirely. You get more of a full spectrum warrioir rts ,rather than a tactical squad based first person shooter...


eh., VIVA BLACK ARROW i guess....

Brevity
08-26-2004, 06:47 PM
I dont see the point of having 3rd person as an option...

You will as effective as a deer on the battlefield playing from that view in a game like GR.

Yes I understand, it will go into 1st person when you go to AIM, but still, walking around you are still as good as dead in the 3rd person.

I concur.

Koopa
08-26-2004, 08:13 PM
i don't see the problem with third person. if it bugs you so much, turn it off. i've never seen people get so pissed off over having an extra option. so you don't like it? don't use it! its really not a big deal.

JJaX
08-26-2004, 11:39 PM
Who is pissed off about it?

Its just pointless, thats all...

You never played GR have you?

Conchord
08-26-2004, 11:43 PM
i don't see the problem with third person. if it bugs you so much, turn it off. i've never seen people get so pissed off over having an extra option. so you don't like it? don't use it! its really not a big deal.

It's the fact that it's their, to try and appeal to people who might not have liked the first one...the point of a sequel is to please the fans of the original....not make your game as generic as possible to appeal to everyone...imagine if rainbox six 3 had third person optional...you would be worried about it, then wouldn't you? Having pandora in your sig, i figured you would realize the tactical advantages and disadvantages of third and first person views...and why first person is the most realistic....and that the point of ghost recon is supposed to be a realistic battlefield experience...not an arcade game.

Koopa
08-27-2004, 12:46 AM
Who is pissed off about it?

Its just pointless, thats all...

You never played GR have you?

yeah, i enjoyed it, too.


It's the fact that it's their, to try and appeal to people who might not have liked the first one...the point of a sequel is to please the fans of the original....not make your game as generic as possible to appeal to everyone...
interesting opinion...but i thought the point was to make money...and if it broadens the audience, thats good for ubi and good for us...more people means more money means possibly more DLC stuff.

imagine if rainbox six 3 had third person optional...you would be worried about it, then wouldn't you?
no, i would turn it off....well, i think i would, i'd have to see how it played, first.

Having pandora in your sig, i figured you would realize the tactical advantages and disadvantages of third and first person views...and why first person is the most realistic....and that the point of ghost recon is supposed to be a realistic battlefield experience...not an arcade game.
granted. but hey, if someone else out there wants third person, i don't see why anyone should deny that to them when it causes no harm to the people who want first person. i just think its being blown out of proportion.

l Maximus l
08-27-2004, 03:11 AM
I like the option of 3rd person, however, I wouldn't use it. I strongly prefer first-person in any shooter.

George89
08-27-2004, 11:38 AM
Well for a tactical game like Ghost Recon 2, having a 3rd person view is very helpful to see suroundings.

AND having the gun displayed on screen is much better! In the original GR, i sometimes would think I had a machine gun when I'd really have my pistol, since the gun in that game was only displayed in the corner.

Koopa
08-27-2004, 12:53 PM
I like the option of 3rd person, however, I wouldn't use it. I strongly prefer first-person in any shooter.
there ya go, that should be the attitude of all these other whiners :rofl:

JJaX
08-27-2004, 03:23 PM
there ya go, that should be the attitude of all these other whiners :rofl:


Im not whining, Im just saying playing GR from 3rd person puts you at a GREAT disadvantage. Therefore, its pointless.

When in the 3rd person, you will be at least 15 yards back, and 15 yards is a huge amount of distance when you are looking for prone camouflaged soldiers to shoot at.

Conchord
08-27-2004, 03:50 PM
Well for a tactical game like Ghost Recon 2, having a 3rd person view is very helpful to see suroundings.

AND having the gun displayed on screen is much better! In the original GR, i sometimes would think I had a machine gun when I'd really have my pistol, since the gun in that game was only displayed in the corner.

Yea, I know I would rather have a SAW taking up 30% of my screen then just having crosshairs...because i think EVERY shooter Ubi releases should be exactly alike, with only different guns and maps...

;)

This is a tactical game....tactical games use realism....third person views are not realism...they are turning this into an arcade shooter.

Koopa
08-27-2004, 03:58 PM
Yea, I know I would rather have a SAW taking up 30% of my screen then just having crosshairs...because i think EVERY shooter Ubi releases should be exactly alike, with only different guns and maps...

thats why they should differentiate gr by making it have a third person option.

Conchord
08-27-2004, 04:21 PM
You say you wouldnt use it if it were in rs3...and at the same time you are saying it should be in GR 2...if you aren't going to use a feature, then why put it in the game? Also, you cannot switch between squadmates in GR 2...they are really ****ing this series up...

Koopa
08-27-2004, 11:51 PM
You say you wouldnt use it if it were in rs3...and at the same time you are saying it should be in GR 2...if you aren't going to use a feature, then why put it in the game? Also, you cannot switch between squadmates in GR 2...they are really ****ing this series up...
i said i probably wouldn't, i'd have to try it first.

but, as i've said before, having the option never hurt anyone.

Conchord
08-28-2004, 04:10 AM
Neither did staying true to your roots...

Like i said, GR 2 has now become an arcade shooter...

Brevity
08-29-2004, 10:48 AM
I read an article in PLAY and another mag maybe GI about the new 3rd person which Ubisoft is calling Over-the-shoulder-camera, and I think it really will work well in the game. Infact, they are making hand signals in some way a part of the game and it said that this view is ideal for that, plus reflecting on my SOCOM time, I am back to looking forward to this game. I am fickle like that I can read one article and not like something then a week later read another and totaly change my mind. I loved GR so for me its a game I have always known that I would get the second incarnate of when it was set to come out. So, once again looking forward to picking this title up.

Snowblind
08-29-2004, 06:41 PM
I personally love the OTS cam...just not in my First Person Shooter. OTS works well in Splinter Cell and Manhunt(despite how bad the actual game was).
But anyway, theres a reason they call it "FIRST PERSON" shooter.

Rainbow Six 3 third person? That would be interesting......

JJaX
08-29-2004, 07:08 PM
MY POINT: Theres a tactical disadvantage when in the 3rd person, when playing a game with First person roots.

Thats all.

E Nomini Patri
08-29-2004, 10:52 PM
Why don't you guys play the game first? That's all I got to say...

JJaX
08-30-2004, 02:47 AM
Zero,

Did you say something?

Anyways, 3rd person is pointless in GR.

PERIOD.

Reclaimer
08-30-2004, 04:00 AM
There is no realism in Rainbow Six, Halo, Ghost Recon or any first person shooting game because of one thing. No peripheral vision.
Peripheral vision is what makes you aware of your surroundings. Peripheral vision gives you depth of field. Peripheral vision is your first alert indicators.
These games cannot utilize it and therefore the realism is shot.
But, by being able to switch to an over the shoulder view at will, you can get a simulated peripheral vision to help you gain tactical edge.
No one in the field walks around with blinders on, and niether should you.

There is a use of the third person view. I wouldn't necessarily stay in that mode all the time because it would be bad for close quarter combat, but being able to switch out at will, will give you some sort of realism factor and allow you to make real decisions that you would if you where really in that situation.

Brevity
08-30-2004, 08:16 AM
For fun Cooler and I played 3 hours or so of the first GR last night. Wow what fun, brought back some good memories; its been like a year or more since I touched the game. I hope this one is as much fun.

GreenWeenie
08-30-2004, 01:26 PM
All of this over an option....I remember when GR1 was about to come out. No one liked it, didn't think it would sell, and look at it now? 3 Expandions on the PC (more than any other Ubi game) and one for the X-Box. Just give it a try. If you don't like OTS then don't use it. If you feel that it makes your life easier then use it. Either way...not a soul knows what they will think about it until the day they play it.

CRAYMAN
08-30-2004, 02:06 PM
I think they needed this change in order to differentiate this version from R63.

Cold_As_Ice
09-02-2004, 10:27 AM
EB recently posted a new box art for Ghost Recon 2 on their web site. It's actually fairly decent; at least in comparison to Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow's piss poor box art.

- http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/243658.asp

Fonzie
09-02-2004, 10:52 PM
If ya dont like it dont use it. Plain and simple. Now if they changed it to 3rd person only, welll thats a different story.

Conchord
09-03-2004, 09:55 AM
I think they needed this change in order to differentiate this version from R63.

Yea, since ghost recon is older than rs3...

CRAYMAN
09-03-2004, 05:04 PM
Yea, since ghost recon is older than rs3...

Could you be a bit more specific/clear?

Cold_As_Ice
09-03-2004, 09:44 PM
Could you be a bit more specific/clear?

Yeah, please, because if you were referring exclusively to the XBox iterations of the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six series', then yes, you would be correct in your statement. Otherwise, your statement speaks of ignorants to the PC platform.

If, however, you were/are actually aware of the history behind Ubi Softs two very similar military shooters in that the original Rainbow Six was released prior to the original Ghost Recon, on the PC platform, when you made your statement, you are, therefore, correct.

This should help to clarify.

Conchord
09-07-2004, 08:34 PM
Thank you, Cold As Ice. I needed you to tell me that the PC version of the original Rainbow Six is older than the first iteration in the Ghost Recon series. I am glad you are hear to teach all of us noobs what we need to know. RS3 is a completely different game then Rainbow Six, which is why I said Ghost Recon is older than RS3.

Let's look at the differences between Rainbow Six and RS3...
In RS3, you cannot...control any character...lose characters...pick characters from a roster...customize your team in ANY way, shape or form, including weapons, both secondary and primary, what they wear, and what team they are on...when a character 'dies', he is magically alive for the next mission...your gun is taking up 20 percent of the screen, there is no pregame planning...you cannot pull up a map and direct your players...

This is what I am afraid is going to happen to Ghost Recon. It only takes a few small changes, and the game feels completely different. Next game, third person will be the ONLY view...mark my words...

TOTTEN
09-07-2004, 11:35 PM
Xbocks is one of you GR2 fears that they may make the game more of a third person shooter than GR because im pretty sure you wouldnt just be mad because a new feature. I mean like the people at ubisoft making the game revolve around using the 3rd person view.

CRAYMAN
09-08-2004, 02:28 PM
Let's look at the differences between Rainbow Six and RS3...
In RS3, you cannot...control any character...lose characters...pick characters from a roster...customize your team in ANY way, shape or form, including weapons, both secondary and primary, what they wear, and what team they are on...when a character 'dies', he is magically alive for the next mission...your gun is taking up 20 percent of the screen, there is no pregame planning...you cannot pull up a map and direct your players...
You forgot to mention how R63 looks so much better than GR. And the gun maybe takes up 5% of the screen, not 20%. And how the majority of players want the weapon onscreen.
But your point is well taken. The games are different enough already.

This is what I am afraid is going to happen to Ghost Recon. It only takes a few small changes, and the game feels completely different. Next game, third person will be the ONLY view...mark my words...
STOP the pessimism! If this is seen as an improvement(to have the option of either) it will return as an OPTION. It's a feature that WILL return if there is another GR.

:hump: :) :argue1: :D

Conchord
09-08-2004, 06:14 PM
What does RS3 looking better have to do with anything? We are talking about third person perspectives, which contribute to gameplay...the fact that you immediately pointed out graphics shows that you probably don't pay too much attention to how good a game is over how good it looks.

And Totten...I am afraid that Ubi thinks it need an OTS camera in the Ghost series...it'll be a few changes here and there, then by the time Ghost 3 comes out, you won't even recognize it.

CRAYMAN
09-08-2004, 08:09 PM
What does RS3 looking better have to do with anything? We are talking about third person perspectives, which contribute to gameplay...the fact that you immediately pointed out graphics shows that you probably don't pay too much attention to how good a game is over how good it looks.


NO, we are talking about differences in the two titles.

Further, if we were only talking about the difference between third and first person perspective in regards to gameplay, you wouldn't have posted these other differences, "Let's look at the differences between Rainbow Six and RS3...
In RS3, you cannot...control any character...lose characters...pick characters from a roster...customize your team in ANY way, shape or form, including weapons, both secondary and primary, what they wear, and what team they are on..."

BTW, nice sig! I am really looking forward to Pop 2.

Conchord
09-08-2004, 09:03 PM
NO, we are talking about differences in the two titles.

Further, if we were only talking about the difference between third and first person perspective in regards to gameplay, you wouldn't have posted these other differences, "Let's look at the differences between Rainbow Six and RS3...
In RS3, you cannot...control any character...lose characters...pick characters from a roster...customize your team in ANY way, shape or form, including weapons, both secondary and primary, what they wear, and what team they are on..."

BTW, nice sig! I am really looking forward to Pop 2.

I was explaining why RS3 should not be considered a sequel to Rainbow Six because of its huge differences...just a different game with the same concept...

Prince of Persia 2 look tight as ****...I'm workin on a sig for it now...anti-kerry will have to do til she's done, tho.

Cold_As_Ice
09-08-2004, 10:15 PM
And the gun maybe takes up 5% of the screen, not 20%.

Actually, since the common theme of this thread has turned out to be nitpicking over the differences between the Rainbow Six games and the Ghost Recon game, I believe that he's correct with this. The majority of the weapons in Rainbow Six 3 do in fact consume at least 20% of the screen. Pistols might only take up 5%, though.

l Maximus l
09-08-2004, 10:39 PM
Maybe Ubisoft will wise up and actually have a split screen multi-player option for once in their lives.

Conchord
09-08-2004, 10:55 PM
LOL...like in..............Ghost Recon?

CarGuy
09-09-2004, 06:40 AM
LOL...like in..............Ghost Recon?
:rofl:

Cold_As_Ice
09-09-2004, 09:31 AM
Imo, split-screen multi-player game-play is dead, and has been, ever since the death of the N64. Online MP, or System Link is the way to go now days. Of course, split-screen is always a nice option to have included, regardless.

CRAYMAN
09-09-2004, 11:55 AM
Does GR have MultiPlayer Co-Op? Maybe that's what Maxi meant.

Rhiannon
09-09-2004, 08:04 PM
oops wrong thread

Unreal
09-09-2004, 08:25 PM
i don't see the problem with third person. if it bugs you so much, turn it off. i've never seen people get so pissed off over having an extra option. so you don't like it? don't use it! its really not a big deal.
Not only that, but its a game. A GAME :D

FLINCH
09-14-2004, 11:55 AM
You all have good points about your conserns regarding GR2. My wory is about having to go to 3rd person in order to stay compeditive. When in a compeditive game of GR we all need to go to our maps to get an edge on the other player. I am one who hates the fact that the map can be used to find the other player, but I do have to go to it when times get tough. If on GR2 the third person perspective gives players an edge over other players, all of us who are good, will be FORCED to use 3rd person perspective to stay competitive, even if we hate 3rd person. I have over 40 xbox games and I have no 3rd person games because I don't like them. The game developers think that this will bring them more $$$ by bringing together 1st and 3rd perspective players together. I on the other hand think that this game will show the developers that you can't go both ways and make every one happy. After the game is released and we all buy it, and you know we are, they will hear our colective beef. There WILL be an advantage by swiching views, we will swich views out of necessity, but we will NOT be buying games like this in the future. They (the developers) will learn a hard lesson when the second game comes out using both perspectives and we don't buy it. Its too bad people who make the desitions don't play the games.

Duke
09-14-2004, 02:00 PM
Does GR have MultiPlayer Co-Op? Maybe that's what Maxi meant.

Yes, it does.

mattgame
09-14-2004, 09:03 PM
I think Reclaimer wrapped this little convo up. I just can't wait for the game.