The 'Onliners'

[thrAsher]

I know you're out there.

You 'onliner', you.

Can't play a damn video game unless you got some jackass 12-year old in Kansas that you can roast when you're done plugging Magnum rounds into his head 15 times in a TS match.

I'm not knocking you, so believe it. I'm just an old fogie, and remember goofing off on Chrono Cross back when BBSes were the norm. I played the hell outta Zelda, got my freak on w/ Super Mario, and was hacking away at Ghosts 'n Goblins. I remember the first Final Fantasy hitting the NES. It was Ultima w/ character.

So, the point to this thread is, do you think gaming is evolving, or 'de-evolving', due to the craving for online play?

Are we missing the essential in gaming? Are we forgetting how to explore and to learn, and going for the quick fix, the fast frag, the immediate sensation?

I think we are. I think games want to be movies as much as the later now eagerly embraces the prior. I tend to think gaming in America has dumbed down to such a point, that anything the utmost new and refreshing is hailed as superior. Take most of the PS2's cult hits of last year....Katamari Damacy most prevalent.

It's a divided world, my twitching little friends. What was once golden is now novel, and what is now golden only wants to be.

We are living in the time of the 'big shift'. Games are changing. What I want to know, is are you cool w/ that?

I'm looking at my Gamecube, w/ no online at all, and thinking we could just skip past some really cool **** in this newly revived market...and I think I here some Bob Dylan playing.

Or maybe I'm just a nostalgic ol' freak. I suppose this thread will answer many of my questions, or at least I hope it will.

Please, discuss.

[Variation-XBA]

I miss BBSs :( heh...

I agree that gaming has definetly changed since way back when, but its arguable if its better or worse.

I personally miss genre's like the ole Monkey Island, Kings Quest, Grim Fandango etc. We will probably never see anything like those again in the near future, cause if it doesnt have huge guns, realistic physics, bullet time, tricked out cars, or an online fee, the "average" gamer will not give it the time of day, and usually doesnt get the fair share of advertizing it should have anyways.

I find games these days (cept the few I do love), simply don't hold my interest long enough, that or they pump out WAY too many "A" titles that you NEED to get. I rarely finish games I get now. Back then that used to bug the hell out of me and I would sit and play until everything is 100% completed (Final Fantasy 7 for example). Now, it just kinda gets a playing now and then, not sure why.

I agree with the "anything new and refreshing is held as superior", and Katamari was a PRIME example. Remember how hot and cool Parappa was when it first came?

[Mitchell]

games=good

[thrAsher]

Parapa the Rappa!!! :cry:

I am seriously too twisted by Japanese games. My Dreamcast is like a time-travel machine. I play 'Bangai'O' and can only wonder why the hell games aren't so addictive anymore.

I mean, I walked through Halo 2. I'll be eighty before I can own Ikaruga.

Hold on tight, Variation, it's a turbulent couple years coming up. Console gaming is stepping on hardcore PC gamer's toes (think 'Deus Ex : Invisible War', or 'Thief III' for one ).

It's a whole new marketplace, and some of us console junkies are getting left out in the cold, especially on the Xbox.

Or so my opinion goes...

[MerimacHamwich]

The games are out there, you just have to find them, and spread word of mouth. Don't get melodramatic, get pro-active!

[thrAsher]

I'm not talking about abortion or gay rights, man. I'm talking about geeky, mind-absorbing adventures.

Okay, so little diff, but you feel me. ;)

Not trying to be melodromatic, but I am sensing a shift, one that's been happening, and I'm just feeling wary.

I think we're being marketed heavily, and that we need to be more pro-active in what it is exactly that we want. For instance, I am sick and tired of shooting stuff.

But thanks for putting a cap on my argument, Ham, it was probably needed.

[Variation-XBA]

Parapa the Rappa!!! :cry:

I'll be eighty before I can own Ikaruga.

Hold on tight, Variation, it's a turbulent couple years coming up. Console gaming is stepping on hardcore PC gamer's toes (think 'Deus Ex : Invisible War', or 'Thief III' for one ).

It's a whole new marketplace, and some of us console junkies are getting left out in the cold, especially on the Xbox.

Yea, RIP Parappa :(

Don't kid yourself, you will NEVER beat Ikaruga...sorry, you and I know it's true :P (I'm still trying as well)

I think the next 2/3 years will be very interesting for the people that don't own each system and a pc and basically only have 1 system and thats it. Luckily I can play the best from every world and genre, but the amount of people that come in my store asking "When is Halo comming for PS2" and retarded stuff like that, I feel is only going to get worse, and the 'casual gamer' these days is much less informed than say 5-10 years ago. Why do you think stuff like GTA sells? It's a following, and I want games that actually are GOOD, and push boundries and new ideas, get some credit (Ala Halflife2).

Just think, in another year or 2, we will have all over again, the XB2 vs PS3 wars, fanboys telling everyone that their system is better, and again, no one caring about the games, just endorsing their product because THEY think it is better.

Cant wait....Gunna love explaining to people at work "So....what xbox 2 do you have? The Flash ram version, the HDD version? The PC version? ....oh....sorry, you need THIS xbox to play that game"..

Bah, my rant is switching from topic to topic...Unless E3 has some major surprises, I personally not that thrilled for anything MAJOR-OMG-NEED-IT-NOW for the next long while. (There are a few like Zelda'05 and such, but nothing compared to waiting for HL2, H2, Doom3, etc etc)

Sigh....

[thrAsher]

Zelda is going to melt brains. Mark my words. It'll sell a boat-load of 'Cubes, late cycle even.

Still, Japan will always have it down. They know how to 'immerse' the gamer. American studios only seem to know how to 'fool' the gamer. They make you feel like a tank on two legs. Japanese companies know how to make you feel like saviour of the entire universe.

Big difference, for some of us. Most of my favorite games are one-player games where the world is your oyster. That world is wavering, I think. We just want to shoot each other in the face, anymore. What happened to involved gaming, versus twitch gaming? Why the need to headbutt some kid living in Idaho?

[Variation-XBA]

Most of my favorite games are one-player games where the world is your oyster. That world is wavering, I think. We just want to shoot each other in the face, anymore. What happened to involved gaming, versus twitch gaming? Why the need to headbutt some kid living in Idaho?


All my classic favs also are all one player, but now a days, if it doesnt have online, I'm generally not as interested, so I have changed as well, don't know why. I like the social aspect of online gaming now.

I agree though that twitch gaming can get old quick.

[thrAsher]

See, playing silly crap like 'Wind Waker' on the 'Cube has had me thinking. The game is brilliant. Tight controls, consistent graphics, a dynamic world. Lots to look for. It's not so much a game, as a 'place', a 'time' to interact w/.

I guess I like games that are more like dreams. Shooters are just so hectic, so neurotic. I crave old Sonic games, like the NES days. I like the puzzles, the epiphanies when you solve 'em.

****, man, I'd giggle if I had a cartridge in my hand again. But do know, I'm not knocking the new school. I'm just feeling a bit miffed. I want some persistent worlds, some depth, some wonder. The Xbox isn't giving it to me. It won't platform to any respectable degree, spells RPG 'Baldur's Gate', and has this sado-masochist infatuation w/ the FPS.

[Reclaimer]

I'm a creative person. Musically inclined, artistic in some ways and I'll even dare to say that I'm an intellectual person. However, when it comes to gaming.. my evolution through the world of games has always thrived on twitch gaming. I'm the other side of this, man. I love it. My car needs to hit 200mph all the time. I need to run through a hyper active battle with virtual bullets coming from every angle. I need pulse pounding combat, and I strive to be the one that headbutts that kid from Idaho.
I enjoy being the two legged tank and I guess I'll mark myself as the eye candy first, the rest comes later kind of guy.
I'm not less of a person for wanting this either. That's just the way it is. Role playing games bore me. Zelda? Yawn, no thank you, I'll play Contra. I've played Deus EX, and I got tired of it because I just wanted to shoot people all the time.
Believe me, I used to play the real deal role playing. Yeah, I used play D&D. But then that just got on my nerves.. too slow. My brain works just fine. It's the rest of me that needs to be entertained.
I am intelligent, but I require my games to be 100% full throttle or I will get bored.
Every game, every console, every PC since the begining.
My true love? Flight Simulation. I get the best of both worlds. A bit of action, and a bit of comprehensive problem solving. Though I sometimes get the urge to abandon my flight plan and cut in and around the near by sky scrapers. Which is harder to deny depending on the airplane I'm using.
Anyway, it's just the way I am. Maybe that's why I joined the military and specifically chose to be an Operations Specialist. I can get the best of both worlds in real life. Problem solve and then go out and give my body an experience.
Anyway.. there's two worlds out there and you're gaming experience is usually one or the other. But is really one better than the other? Depends on who you are.

[Variation-XBA]

See, playing silly crap like 'Wind Waker' on the 'Cube has had me thinking. The game is brilliant. Tight controls, consistent graphics, a dynamic world. Lots to look for. It's not so much a game, as a 'place', a 'time' to interact w/.

I guess I like games that are more like dreams. Shooters are just so hectic, so neurotic. I crave old Sonic games, like the NES days. I like the puzzles, the epiphanies when you solve 'em.

****, man, I'd giggle if I had a cartridge in my hand again. But do know, I'm not knocking the new school. I'm just feeling a bit miffed. I want some persistent worlds, some depth, some wonder. The Xbox isn't giving it to me. It won't platform to any respectable degree, spells RPG 'Baldur's Gate', and has this sado-masochist infatuation w/ the FPS.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, if SOMEHOW you would make Zelda a MMO (that was free for all you whiners that think it's BS for monthly fee's), I would be set for life.

Feels kinda weird when I sell GBA games when 95% of eveyrthing in my store is cd format. Once PSP comes out it will only make that feel stronger as well.

Sounds like you need a good MMO or something Thrasher :) That's my fav genre for the past 6 years.

[LTM360]

Earlier games rule (Contra III: The Alien Wars pwn you). But the MMO-Genre is rediculous. Thrash... get WoW NOW! Hey that should be thier slogan "Get WoW, Now!" :)

[MerimacHamwich]

I know I'll get flamed for this. But, as we all know Japanese development on the PS2 far outweighs Japanese development on the Xbox. If you are looking for those types of games, with lots of story involvement, cutscenes and puzzles, I'd highly suggest getting a PS2. That's where those games thrive. Not to mention you can also run all of the PS1 classics on it.

The PC is also a monster for Shooting games. The other heavy genres are RTS and RPG, but still, I think not quite what you are looking for. The PS2 is saturated with the quirky game market, the oldschool influenced and "future"school want.

Heck, just head to some local game shops and check out the hundreds of PS2 games out there. I'm sure you'll find more than a handful of what you want. Maybe start off with Ico?

[Variation-XBA]

Thrash... get WoW NOW! Hey that should be thier slogan "Get WoW, Now!" :)

Too bad you can't get WoW now anywhere :P

Don't listen to him thrash, it's overrated and a badnwagon :P *waits to be flamed*

[MerimacHamwich]

I dunno, I think WoW get's overhyped, yes, but it is a very fun and easy to get into game. Level 8 Troll Shaman. W00t.

[Variation-XBA]

I dunno, I think WoW get's overhyped, yes, but it is a very fun and easy to get into game. Level 8 Troll Shaman. W00t.

Wow, been playing for an hour I see :P

[CRAYMAN]

I think the market has shifted to an older demographic. Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Half Life, Doom, Sports titles and the aging of Link in the Zelda series are indications. I see plenty of games that are single player experiences and immerse you in the environment, but are tailored to the adult gamer. You still see Mario titles, but the ones that get all the ink are the adult titles. Furthermore, adults don't have as much free time, because they have JOBS and families competing for their attention. This makes them more discriminating when they do purchase a title. (I want to purchase a Gamecube in order to play RE4, but I still have Splinter Cell 2 sitting on my shelf...UNTOUCHED).
Splinter Cell 2 gave us the best of both worlds and as consumers we like this. A great single player experience AND online competition!?1/1! Halo 2 is another example.
More games are being made to be experienced with a friend, whether beside you on the sofa or 100 miles away via an online connection. Co-op anyone? Splinter Cell 3 is a great example of evolving market forces. A co-op interactive campaign mode is what the public WANTS.
Gone are the days of the reclusive gamer, who whittles away his days on a computer in solitary confinement.

IT"S GOOD TO PLAY TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!1

[Duke]

I'm going against the "I only play live" grain here. While I'll still purchase a lot of the AAA titles, I've shifted back to the solo experience as my #1 priority for a game.

BG&E, Metal Arms, those are the games I really, really enjoyed. I honestly haven't truly "loved" any of the live titles since GR. They're all fine, and playing vs. live players and w/ friends can't be devalued, but in the long run, I want to walk away from a game and just have really enjoyed it regardless if my team was full of noobs or someone's glitching or what have you.

[Sammael]

Live has spoiled me. I really feel as if I'm wasting money to buy a game that once I beat will never play again. Its all about replay value now.

[thrAsher]

I've thought about getting a PS2. It's library is so huge and diverse that it would take me a loooong time to get bored w/ the system. Don't get me wrong, either, guys. I love online play. I do. It's great to get together w/ buddies and strategize and blast away and all that. I, too, crave the 'full throttle' experience. But just not always. And I'm fully aware that gamers come in all shapes and sizes, and have their own tastes.

But what I am trying to get at w/ this thread is, do you think the cross-polinisation of the video game industry and the music/film/television industries has made games less counter-culture and more pop-culture? Take San Andreas. It's essentially, from what I've read, a reflection on the explosion of the hip-hop and gangsta scene, as well as the '90's in general. Is this clever marketing, a gimmick, or bonafide gaming? I mean, the GTA series oozes w/ pop-culture references.

I honestly don't know. I suppose I prefer to have my games tell otherworldly stories, to immerse me in the implausible. I suppose that's why I do actually enjoy Halo and Halo 2, because you play a cyborg warrior in some far flung future. It's truly an escape from reality. Something like Full Spectrum Warrior, though, while innovative and engaging, is just a little too 'real' for me. I got bored w/ it and never even finished the game.

[MerimacHamwich]

I totally think gamging has changed in that way thrAsher, it's going more towards the pop culture for sure. That's the reason why te gaming market is larger than the movie market. We are starting to grow into an entertainment sector to replace movies. INstead of just watching it happen, you are now becoming the main character.

Ofcourse, for those of us who have been gaming for a long time, we know that has been the idea since day one. However, the fantasy like games are taking a sideseat, in a sense. It still is fantasy to be shooting poeple in splinter cell, or commanding a squad in Full Spectrum warrior, but like was said, it isn't a far departure. Some of us do that as a profession. GTA is sorta the same way, and sadly, yes some of us do resort to gangster lives.

I too am more for the fantasy esque RPG's of old. They made you feel like you were more part of a different world. Or the puzzle type games, like Devil Dice. They completely take your mind away from current happenings, you gotta get the puzzle to work and that's all that matters.

That being said, I think those types of games are still around, just not as readily "available" as the larger more "marketable" products. Becuase the gaming market is going so mainstream we are being pummeled with advertising and hype. I think, to truly game in the way most of us want, you have to try to separate yourself as much as possible from the marketing and hype. Step back, and look at what's out there. Find the games you want to play, not the games the corporates want you to play. It's just like alot of things in life, including movies and music. There is a great selection out their for every platform, it just takes a little searching to dig the games up.

I think that is where there is a difference in the consoles though. It's a fact that the PS2 has a much larger selection of games than the Xbox. So granted, they will have more of the "alternative" games than the Xbox will. However, I digress, I am just repeating my previous posts, in a longer format. So I won't really bother you with reading anymore. My final note is this though, to be an adult oriented game, the game doesn't have to have killing. That is something ALOT of adolescent gamers don't realise.

[SPARTAN VI]

I agree Thrash, which is part of the reason my group and I have gone back to older games. A few months ago, I dusted off my SEGA Genesis and played Sonic 2 and 3 all the way through. Then took on a friend at NBA Jam and pounded him with the Charolette Hornets (back when they had Muggsy Bogues).

Recently, we've gotten into older PC games and have been playing them over the internet. Age of Mythology and StarCraft for now, trying to get Black and White back in.

Maybe eventually we'll get back into Dungeon Siege. :)

But yeah, newer games are getting monotonous. Waiting for Chaos Theory and Conkers, and thats it.

[Chewy]

Thrasher, great freakin' thread. First off everyone in this thread have made some great points. I want to address some of them seperatly.

Online vs Single player. First I think that the single player versions of games are suffering abit right now because of the demand for online and multiplayer. If you have a team of 30 developers and you now have to really develop two games, online and single player, then you have just divided the workforce you had in half. Neither is going to be as good as it could be. I do a lot of online gaming, but I still greatly appreciate well done single player parts of the game. The thing that really sets online gaming apart from single player is that it is a real person who is on the other end of this game. So that left-left-right-duck-shoot pattern that I developed that got me through the entire single player campaign might work against a real person once, will get me a melon full of lead if I try it again and again. Online gaming it not about the game, it is about challenging another living breathing person in a battle of wits and reactions. So the game itself doesn't really matter in online gaming in my opinion, it is just a tool to use to destroy your friends. There are some exceptions (see my ravings about City of Heroes elsewhere)

'Claimer, and your love of pulse pounding action games. I know a lot of people like you. I have a lot of freinds that are exactly like you. I however need depth in a game. I have a copy of Halo2, not because I think it is a good game, but because if I want to play an online game (see above) then I had better have a copy of Halo2 on my shelf. There are games that are not solid action, but strangly enough get your pulse pounding. Pickup a copy of Fatal Frame. I know this game is not really for most it is slow moving completly story driven game. For those of you that have not heard of it, it is a ghost horor game. The only weapon that you have against the ghost is a camera. Yep, you heard me, a camera. That games has given me more heart attacks and elevated my heart rate more that any round of Halo2 on Live ever has. I like to call it immersion. Fatal Frame just sucks you in. It drags you in and makes you part of the game. When you hear LTM talking about the homework he has to get done as he smokes you with a shotgun or listening to some 13 year old's mom yell at him on Live it just doesn't make you feel like you are the master chief.


Old games vs new games. I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. I think you are missing a very important part. I think the reason that we got so immersed into those older games was because they were graphically pathetic. Silly idea, but bear with me for a second here. Your imagination is way better than anything anybody could ever put into any video game. Those little square pixels in Zelda became your avatar. Your mind warped those few sprites of white in Space Taxi into a fully functioning flying cab with you behind the wheel. The graphics of games like that were finished by programmers in weeks not months. The story HAD to carry those games. They didn't have anything else. You didn't have to worry about cheezy voiceovers CAUSE THERE WERE NONE. The characters always sounded exactly how you wanted them to, but it was all in your head. But Thrash, have you gone back to some of those old games? I have emulators for almost all of the old systems. It sure is a blast with your friends to spark up a four person game of M.U.L.E. and relive our multiplayer days, but after we play one game I find that we end up switching to Xmen Legends pretty darn quick.

I think the problem is people are ****ing stupid. They are sheep. They don't want to think for themselves. If everyone else thinks that Halo2 is the best game on the Xbox then why shouldn't they? People wouldn't want to have thier own thoughts now would they? There are lots of great games out there man. You just have to beat through the pop crap and find those buried treasures. Games like The Suffering give me hope that I will keep finding fantastic games.

[Variation-XBA]

Another thing about gamer's now is that there is WAY too much emphasis on graphics. I know there is people that think that if ti doesn't stack up to Doom 3 / Halflife2 etc etc, then it's not worth playing. It could be the most gameplay orientated game in the world, but if it doesn't have all the eye candy that "mainstream" (and i use that word loosly) gamers "need", then it simply won't sell.

Like someone said above, look at Metal Arms, probably one of the most underrated games of last year. Stellar game, but ask the average/casual gamer and I guarantee they have never heard of it if it doesnt have Halo or GTA in the name.

It's sad that certain games don't get their fair credit due to lack of advertizing, or following or whatnot. Look at Prince of Persia 1, awesome game, just came out at the wrong time when everything else did, and had virtually no advertizing.

I hate selling a GTA game, cause 9/10 people are only getting it cause of how cool their friends said it was, or cause you can kill chicks or whatever reason they want to make up. I'm not anti GTA, I'm anti/hype. I personally wasn't even really excited for Halo2; I wanted it, when I played it I thought it was awesome, but I've learned to get over and not listen to hype anymore. Most gamers do though.

For arguments sake, say somehow that Gran Turismo 4 sucks and all previews come back saying it's nowhere near as good as it should be. I will tell people this and they will still get it because of everything they read and told what to think about it a year before it is even out. Going on a limb here, you have to admit, Halo 2 was much overhyped. Not saying it's bad, I loved it personally, but for the little amount that we even knew about it, and the final result in people blindly getting it, it's certainly changed over the years.

I just hate how alot of gem's over overlooked cause it's not a gta clone or has master cheif in it.