So it turns out Halo 2 wasn't the equivalent of a God Descending from the Heavens.

[MerimacHamwich]

Now that we all realise this, can we just play the damn game?

[Madhattr]

Does anyone actually like you?

[TOTTEN]

Does anyone actually like you?
Yes hes pretty popular on these forums I dont think he would stick around and have as many posts as he does if he is hated.
Well hamwich I do agree but however stupid n00bs who suck alot at halo 2 need to get told.

[Casper]

Does anyone actually like you?
Yes, but I guess noone likes you. Is that why you posted this? Just a guess...

[Soundscape]

Now that we all realise this, can we just play the damn game?
obviously, we do play the game. that's why we come to the halo2 forum. :confused:

[X-Fan]

Yes, but I guess noone likes you. Is that why you posted this? Just a guess...
well i am sure his mom likes him


























or not?

[FB-Gollum]

I don't like any of you. Or your mothers.






But to be honest Merimac, if it was someone other than one of you post lords who started this thread, he'd have been flamed and locked by now. Really, what's the point here?

[MerimacHamwich]

The point of the thread is to try and get the poeple who continually make whiney threads about Halo 2 to stop and think for a bit. Granted there are problems like TOTTEN stated, but those are kinda expected with any online game.

Poeple just expected WAY too much out of this game, and now they are complaining that they didn't get it. It's been out for more than 4 months now, and I think it's time to come to terms with reality, and move on, that's all. That is all the thread is about.

[Regosnot]

Same. I am tired of these pointless threads complaining about Halo 2. Yes it wasn't up to your expectations, so shut up and save the game for the rest of us. Yes there is cheating, but whining about it isn't joining to fix it. Bungie is going to come out with new maps and patches eventually and I rather not get all hyped up about a couple of maps.

[The Last Knight]

I disagree. I think people who spent the money to buy this game and a XBox Live subscription have all the right in the world to complain about the problems in the game they bought. Bungie did indeed disappoint alot of hardcore players out there with this game. But with the downloadable content in the mix, Bungie still has the ability to fix some of their mistakes.

Also, it will be HALO 3 THAT WILL BE THE EQUIVILENT TO REVELATIONS!!

[FB-Gollum]

Poeple just expected WAY too much out of this game, and now they are complaining that they didn't get it. It's been out for more than 4 months now, and I think it's time to come to terms with reality, and move on, that's all. That is all the thread is about.


I couldn't agree with this point more, but to be honest, can we really expect anything else? I mean, we've got people logging 100's of hours on the game then turning around and bashing the game as if it were a valusoft title. Why do they do this? Because peope by and large are stupid hypocrites. I mean, seriously, imagine the game were a person, could you fathom spending that much time with someone and then doing nothing but mercilessly complaining about how horrible they are when they aren't around? (If that sounds like you, you are in an abusive and destructive relationship, get out of it).

Anyhoo, the web world of perceived impunity is the worlds FAVOURITE dumping ground for things that don't need to be complained about. Halo 2 is arguably the single best online game I have ever played. It's lack of perfection only serves to prove it was made by people.

PS. My issue with the thread is that I feel such a limited intro to the thread more or less opens the door to flaming and exactly the kind people we would like to see shut up.

PPS. I TOTALLY CALLED IT. I said in a previous thread that MS NEEDS to do a public beta of this game because only when you get a few million minds picking at some thing will you begin to find the Hidden problems. If there had been an open beta we'd not be having these problems. Hopefully they learn from t

[ThEGrIM]

i hate halo2 lol but btw im just waking up (9:36pm) for playing 2 and a haft days halo 2 ^^

[vman]

Does anyone actually like you?
Just cause you don't like him, doesn't mean everyone else hates him. I knew of Hamwich even before I started posting. Hamwich is a vet man. Show some respect!

Anyway, I know what you mean, Hamwich. But complaining was inevtible. Face it, we will never ever see the "perfect game" that will please everyone.

[Whisper]

Does anyone actually like you?

yes you're right, everybody hates him.. now prove to the world how much he is hated by never returning to the site.. stick it to the man!

[vman]

yes you're right, everybody hates him.. now prove to the world how much he is hated by never returning to the site.. stick it to the man!
or, madhattr can stick it to these guys...

http://www.photoplaync.com/leek/images/gayclub.jpg

[MikeMan91389]

no.. see, most of you dont get it, with your highest levels being around 15.

we complain b/c of standby


standby is so rampant in the twenties, that you can barely play. if you get host, people just back out, and unlock-themselves from your step 3 locked host. seriously, you can't even play clan matches, we havent in 2 months, and when we did, we got standbyed 2 out of 4, and it took about 30 mins to get a game.

i will never stop complaining about h2, because it could have been the best thing ever done to gaming.

[vman]

ah, mikeman, of course i cant feel your pain, having only experienced standby maybe twice. but you gotta relax and chill... like this guy:

http://www.photoplaync.com/leek/images/weed.jpg

[Whisper]

that guy is my new idol!

[Variation-XBA]

Hence why I never hype myself up for games, then you can't be letdown :P

[E Nomini Patri]

Does anyone actually like you?

I like Hamwich.

[TOTTEN]

no.. see, most of you dont get it, with your highest levels being around 15.

we complain b/c of standby


standby is so rampant in the twenties, that you can barely play. if you get host, people just back out, and unlock-themselves from your step 3 locked host. seriously, you can't even play clan matches, we havent in 2 months, and when we did, we got standbyed 2 out of 4, and it took about 30 mins to get a game.

i will never stop complaining about h2, because it could have been the best thing ever done to gaming.
I should be at a 19 :cry: but I am scared of team slayer I got stand byed 2 out of 4 times last time I played it.

[MerimacHamwich]

Thanks for the love guys. :)

Standby, ofcourse is another anomolie kind of expected with online games. Cheats that are made, with out of game resources. Bungie couldn't really do anything to prevent poeple from pressing stand by on their modems. There are possible ways of doing it, but they are either highly costly, or would punish poeple for standbying who aren't. For example, have game monitors, that when a person suddenly loses a connection to the game but re-enters (Pretty sure that's what happens when you press the standy button) they software or poeple would notice and boot you. Or they could have "red" detectors, for whenever someones lag hits the red mark, they get booted. But then alot of innocent poeple would get booted. You can't really blame the game, or bungie for the various standby cheats, you can only blame the poeple who use them.

On another note, that guys eyes are SO red! Must be canadian grass.

[ShannonX]

I don't like any of you. Or your mothers.






But to be honest Merimac, if it was someone other than one of you post lords who started this thread, he'd have been flamed and locked by now. Really, what's the point here?


who says his thread would have been locked if he wasn't a "post lord"? What was the point of your post? Exactly. There was none. Its just as easy to ban the flamers at it is to lock a thread.

[vman]

Thanks for the love guys. :)


On another note, that guys eyes are SO red! Must be canadian grass.
naw, he was just really stone when i took his picture. haha, what a night!

who says his thread would have been locked if he wasn't a "post lord"? What was the point of your post? Exactly. There was none. Its just as easy to ban the flamers at it is to lock a thread.
I totally agree, shannon. I despise people that measure you according to your post count. It should only be a measure of either how long you've been here or how active you are in the site. Arguing that one is a noob or whatever based soley on post counts is insane. Why should post count matter when you are making a thread? That is just ridiculous. It is always the mod's call whether a thread should be closed or not. And I know they do not look at your # of posts to see if they should act or not.

[MerimacHamwich]

Wow. I got standbyed to the extreme tonight. Non-Stop. Oh well. Wheneve rI see a standbyer I know they have no skill. I just make fun of them all match. I owned one of them with a single SMG too, and he had a shotgun. Good times. Level 3 clan... wtf.

[Sam-XBA]

Does anyone actually like you?
yeah, hamwich is cool... and i agree...

ENOUGH POSTING is ''HALO2 better than HALO1'' threads


OKAY!!!?!?

[m4oH]

Hamwich is teh ghey. :p

Okay anyways, I agree with Mikeman. I have reached level 18 but dropped right back to 15 within a week only because of cheaters (standbyers). I can't help but complain about standbyers considering it is what lost me my high levels.

[Sammael]

I like Mamwich....

But anyway no one here likes me but I still stick around and post for the fun of it.

[# 1 Stunner]

just direct connect to your modem and most of the time you will get host if u have a decent connection ,thats what i do, also, when u get host u play easier people for somereason, thats the only bad part so its not as easy to level up, and btw, anyone no if its true , if u hold down the d-pad when your host and it shows 3 people, it will make it a 3 on 3 game? because i like those better for somereason..

[FB-Gollum]

who says his thread would have been locked if he wasn't a "post lord"? What was the point of your post? Exactly. There was none. Its just as easy to ban the flamers at it is to lock a thread.

Wow, that was cold and mildly ridiculous. My point is that I've seen a dozen threads with a one liner intro made by people with <250 posts get blasted by admin's and locked. This thread did not make a strong point, it opened the door to complaining. I also did not flame anyone. My response was respectful and expanded upon Merimac's statements.

Maybe it would not have been locked, but the flaming from senoir members certainly would have ensued.

Personally, I have read tons by Merimac (as I read far more than I post, if you go through my history, you'll find that I rarely post unless I feel I have something of value to say) and I find him to be intelligent articulate and perfectly capable of carrying on a discussion about the legitimacy of a thread he started.

I'm sorry that I feel Merimac should have fleshed out his points or formulated and argument about the subject matter. However, I also feel that Merimac hardly needs to be defended by admin's. This is not an attack, it is a respectful questioning.

[TOTTEN]

just direct connect to your modem and most of the time you will get host if u have a decent connection ,thats what i do, also, when u get host u play easier people for somereason, thats the only bad part so its not as easy to level up, and btw, anyone no if its true , if u hold down the d-pad when your host and it shows 3 people, it will make it a 3 on 3 game? because i like those better for somereason..
People still can standby even when you are the host. Theres secondary standbying I dont know how it works.

[MerimacHamwich]

I believe secondary-standby consists of quickly switching the cable from your router to your modem. At least that is what I am told. I tried it at a buddies house one day, in a custom game. Couldn't get it to work though, just kept getting disconnected.

[Whisper]

I don't like any of you. Or your mothers.



But to be honest Merimac, if it was someone other than one of you post lords who started this thread, he'd have been flamed and locked by now. Really, what's the point here?

actually this was one of the better Halo Good/Bad Thread starts out there.. i would have been surprised if it came from someone other than Hamwich

[TheCovenant]

i dont know about anyone else on this forum, but i still like the game. As mikeman stated, it could have been the biggest thing that happened to online gaming, but it wasnt. its just a fun game.

Most peeps i play with nowadays treat standbye like lag. You cant do anything about it, and all you can do is just try to hurry it along as muchas possible. No one gets uber pissed anymo9re, if someguy is doing standbye we send in our complaint, end of story.

I began playing again last week, and for some odd reason, i havent been standbye's once. For awhile i thought i was, but it turns out that it was just some guy getting dropped.

again, my pooint stands. I agree with merimac. Quit *****ing, and play. DOnt like it? there a wide array ogf amazing games coming out this month...


Brothers in Arms, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, UC2...

[Whisper]

exactly.. the time for bashing the game is over.. ok.. you dont like it as much as you had hoped you would.. get over it and continue to play, or get over it and move on to something else.. don't come on to a forum and continue to bash the game, because no matter how bad you think it is.. you are still in the minority

[Sam-XBA]

I like Mamwich....

But anyway no one here likes me but I still stick around and post for the fun of it.

aww... donta worry i like you :D

[rolling stone]

for what it's worth, i've actually seen God descend from the heavens and i can't really tell the difference between that and halo 2.

[ScorpionX]

get over it and continue to play, or get over it and move on to something else.. don't come on to a forum and continue to bash the game, because no matter how bad you think it is.. you are still in the minority

Nope more like the majority... I've yet to have someone good say that this game is a) better or b) funner than Halo

[Olaf the Proud]

The point of the thread is to try and get the poeple who continually make whiney threads about Halo 2 to stop and think for a bit. Granted there are problems like TOTTEN stated, but those are kinda expected with any online game.

Poeple just expected WAY too much out of this game, and now they are complaining that they didn't get it. It's been out for more than 4 months now, and I think it's time to come to terms with reality, and move on, that's all. That is all the thread is about.

Nothing Personal but I think the point is that your board you feel like *****ing about something just like everybody else here love's to do. So by you whining about the people who whine you really do nothing at all but acknowldge their complet's about the game thus incurage the vary thing your trying to stop. I find when valid points actualy get brought up they became either closed or dead subjects becuse people would rather descuse headshot time what whatever that is . So the point is your negativity toward anyone expressing their dissappoint in anything is wrong.

[Whisper]

Nope more like the majority... I've yet to have someone good say that this game is a) better or b) funner than Halo

im sure there are plenty, I've heard many here say it.. i just think those that dont like it wont listen to the lovers of the game.. go ahead and tune them out

[Madhattr]

The amusing thing is hamwich is whining about people whining. Seriously people have every right to complain or critique a video game, that is how progress is made. If you don't like it DON'T COME TO A HALO 2 FORUM!

So what if he is a "vet" I don't give a **** if he is the ****ing queen of Earth this thread doesn't help the situation he is complaining about in the first place.

Edit: Olaf said it better with worse grammar. Not as many swears as I would normally like though.

[m4oH]

Now watch madhattr you're gonna get flamed for saying that because you have a low post count.

Digusting.

[MerimacHamwich]

There is a huge difference between complaining, and telling the whiners to shut up. I was telling them to shut up, to put it bluntly. If you couldn't understand that, maybe go back to grade 2 english class.

[Olaf the Proud]

Now watch madhattr you're gonna get flamed for saying that because you have a low post count.

Digusting.


Thats Right , You should go into open a head shot thread so that you may get your count up. Because we all know If you only post when you have a point or idea to add to the subject your just dumb. lol

madHattr thanks for the props.

[m4oH]

Thats Right , You should go into open a head shot thread so that you may get your count up. Because we all know If you only post when you have a point or idea to add to the subject your just dumb. lol
I didn't understand that post one bit, but my guess is your ragging on me? Confused.

[Olaf the Proud]

I didn't understand that post one bit, but my guess is your ragging on me? Confused.

NO Iam agreeing completly with you. It kills me that the people that say " You don't post enough to have a point" are the same people who open a thread just to get post #'s up like "ITS HEADSHOT TIME !!!" . Don't get me wrong I love this site and think most the people here rock but It kills me when crap like this comes up and we can talk about it all day , but when some body has a really problem 3 out of 5 time no one will respond . I just get tired of it. we lose good poeple at the site becuse of it. I usally Don't get Involved but this is My hang out and its time to speck out .

[Soundscape]

Nope more like the majority... I've yet to have someone good say that this game is a) better or b) funner than Halo im sure there are plenty, I've heard many here say it.. i just think those that dont like it wont listen to the lovers of the game.. go ahead and tune them out
so you think the one's who don't like the game as much as halo 1 are just ignoring the words of those who do? really? we all like the game, that's why we play the game and come here to discuss it. but the main thing that makes this game better than halo 1 is xbl, although i do like some of the new weapon changes. without that and a few of the new maps halo 1 is a more fun game to play, imo.

i like both games alot but there are just too many issues with halo 2. like the stupid shotgun with random damage, and like i've said before it's way too easy to snipe...there's been countless times where i missed a person's head but i still got the kill. and those are just a couple. it's those types of things that make halo 1 more enjoyable to play for me. i've only played halo 1 once since halo 2 came out, though.

[Whisper]

The amusing thing is hamwich is whining about people whining. Seriously people have every right to complain or critique a video game, that is how progress is made. If you don't like it DON'T COME TO A HALO 2 FORUM!


It gets to a certain point however when it just gets annoying, especially when you have some of the same people continually whining about the game... and it's past the point of critique now, it's flat out whining in many cases. If you want to rag and whine on Halo 2 some more, you can visit www.halo2sucks.com, where everyone shares your opinion.

[Rhiannon]

ah, mikeman, of course i cant feel your pain, having only experienced standby maybe twice. but you gotta relax and chill... like this guy:

http://www.photoplaync.com/leek/images/weed.jpg

I almost choked on my coffee from laughing at that pic...
yeah it could have been better but these opinions are in hindsight...take it for what it is. Its just a game, if you're not having fun sell the game and dont play it.

[Soundscape]

whisper ignored me :( :cry:
probably because i'm such a whiner ;)

[MerimacHamwich]

It gets to a certain point however when it just gets annoying, especially when you have some of the same people continually whining about the game... and it's past the point of critique now, it's flat out whining in many cases. If you want to rag and whine on Halo 2 some more, you can visit www.halo2sucks.com, where everyone shares your opinion.
Precisely. Figured I might as well ressurect this thread since the whining is starting to grow again.

It's a different game. It's out. We've all played it an expressed our opinions. Get on with it already. Play it, or don't, it really doesn't matter.

[l Maximus l]

Precisely. Figured I might as well ressurect this thread since the whining is starting to grow again.

It's a different game. It's out. We've all played it an expressed our opinions. Get on with it already. Play it, or don't, it really doesn't matter.

Personally, I believe there are many late bloomers that are now realizing the abomination that Halo 2 is to the Halo series. It's called the Havok engine that is in Halo 2...and it screwed up what made Halo 1 was so great. The entire physics of the game are different.

Why are people pissed off about it? Because it was a shock that Bungie would use a completely different engine in creating Halo 2. It was no expected nor was it communicated even once in one of Frankie's Weekly Updates. People expected Halo 2 to be a game just like Halo 1 with some new maps, upgraded graphics, some new weapons, and some new capabilities like duel wielding and vehicle boarding. No one; however, expected Halo 2 to be made on a completely different engine; therefore, completely changing the phyics of the game.

This is completely unexpected and ridiculously disappointing, to say the least. The reason why complaints are growing more is because people are finally coming to the realization that Halo 2 sucks...and they haven't been through the denial stage yet. It took me longer to realize it compared to ScorpionX and Mikeman, for example. Therefore, it may take a little longer for other people. It took me four months to get over my denial, but, I did it. So, don't be shocked when you see more complaints flood these forums...it's expected.

[Whisper]

well then create a sub-forum.. because im sick of it.. and i love the game to death

[MerimacHamwich]

A subforum would be awesome.

As for not expecting the Havok engine. How could you not have? That was one of the HUGE things about Halo 2 in it's pre-release days. The havok physics engine was gonna make the game what it is. Ofcourse it's going to be a different game, same as Half Life 2 is different from Half Life 1. Doom 3 is different from Doom 1 and 2 (despite the storyline similarities of half Life 1). Unreal Tournament 2004 is different from Unreal Tournament (UT 2004 and 5 are basically the same engine, but with a one year difference in release, that's not unexpected.).

[Whisper]

exactly.. change is a part of the gaming world.. and i find the new engine better.. I can't explain why, but I sure as hell know i play Halo 2 a lot more then I did Halo 1.

[l Maximus l]

A subforum would be awesome.

As for not expecting the Havok engine. How could you not have? That was one of the HUGE things about Halo 2 in it's pre-release days. The havok physics engine was gonna make the game what it is. Ofcourse it's going to be a different game, same as Half Life 2 is different from Half Life 1. Doom 3 is different from Doom 1 and 2 (despite the storyline similarities of half Life 1). Unreal Tournament 2004 is different from Unreal Tournament (UT 2004 and 5 are basically the same engine, but with a one year difference in release, that's not unexpected.).

Personally, I didn't know what to expect from the Havok engine. Of course I was going to buy Halo 2...I mean, I had to! It was the sequel to Halo! Atleast, that was the feeling I had before playing it.

The difference between Half-Life 1 / Half-Life 2 and Halo1 / Halo 2 is that in Half Life 2, it was an improvement over an old engine. By contrast, Halo 2 was going a step backwards. Half Life 2 made the series current; however, Halo 1 wasn't out of date! Half Life 1 was out of date. Same with Doom 1 & 2...Doom 3 simply put the series up to today's standards. Halo 2 is only a tad better than other FPSs out there like Unreal Championship and the like, whereas Halo 1 was revolutionary. Halo 2 not only was created on a different engine, but, Bungie completely changed the phyics, the gameplay, and changed so many key things that made Halo what it was. Halo 2 simply sucks.

All in all, there is one word that seperates Halo 1 from Halo 2: "fun".

[FB-Gollum]

*cough*fanboy*cough*

[GTA3 Dude]

Nope more like the majority... I've yet to have someone good say that this game is a) better or b) funner than Halo

Yeah, I am so much better at Halo 2 than I am at Halo. It still isn't as good though. Obviously I am not at the skill level you mean when you say good, but still.

[l Maximus l]

*cough*fanboy*cough*

Me? A Halo fanboy? Just make sure you put a "CE" behind it and I'll be the first one to agree. Halo CE > Halo 2

[FB-Gollum]

Halo 2 is better and more fun than Halo 1. There. I said it.

[Anthony4sho]

You know, now that I think about it, I haven't played Halo 2 in a couple of weeks.

[l Maximus l]

Halo 2 is better and more fun than Halo 1. There. I said it.

So, by the same logic you used with me, I guess that makes you a Halo 2 fanboy.

Don't worry, I'm not trying to insult you. Halo 1 is for the hardcore Halo fans...the one that takes ultimate skill and ability with room always to improve. And then, there's Halo 2...it's a great game for everyone else.

I just wish that Halo 2 was on the same level as Halo 1 because a person can never get too much of a good thing.

[l Maximus l]

You know, now that I think about it, I haven't played Halo 2 in a couple of weeks.

I hear ya, brother...I hear ya. It's been over 3 weeks except for a couple quick spurts of Team Training or custom games just to see if I have been going crazy. I have sat at home with nothing to do and I still didn't have an inkling to play Halo 2. Yeah, it's that bad :(

[Soundscape]

Halo 2 is better and more fun than Halo 1. There. I said it.
that doesn't mean you're right, though. ...that's just your opinion.
better as far as graphics.
more fun for alot of people because it's on xbl.
halo 2 may be better for you, but you cannot speak for everyone.

if i could hop into relatively lag-free matches of halo 1 with several peeps as conveniently as i can with halo 2, i'd probably be playing halo 1 instead because i think it has better gameplay and is more fun even though i'm probably much worse at it.

maybe halo 2 is more fun for some people because they do better at it...i dunno. i really don't understand how halo 2 is better or more fun besides being on xbl, the new graphics, and a few of the new maps...but maybe someone could enlighten me? ...whisper, merimac, gollum, anyone?


but no one is really right or wrong. it's all just preference. :cheers:

[FB-Gollum]

I meant for me. I wass just saying it because Max said no one ever had.

However, in another thread Scorp made a really good point. He said "it took a year for most people to get good at Halo". H2 has been around how long? My point,we all think we know all about the game but in reality it's still in it's fledgling stages. 4 months ago we were all *****ing about the sword. Now if you can't deal with the sword you're a noob. Now people ***** about how dominant the PP/BR combo is. I wonder how long it will take before we all deal with that like it's second nature. Dual wielding has been rendered useless in all but CQ situations and the jumping melee (which is still new to most) has given single wielders a fighting chance against a dual. The rocket is still dominant but it's supposed to be, and sniping is still easier but I bet you as we really learn the game inside out these things will become less and less impactful with time.

Furthermore, as time passes we will get better. The good players will further separate themselves from the mediocre. More independent leagues will start. Custom games will be the norm.

Let's face it, we may be good relative to each other, but in the grand scheme we're all still scratching the surface of what the game has to offer. As the new maps come and playlist are refined, as we discover new realities about the game it will change, and we will change how we play it.

Essentially, let's give it some more time and let it evolve the way we let Halo evolve. Only can we really be sure of it's quality. Of course we don't like it as much right now, it's not the same game, but it's amazing, and it's going to get better.

[MerimacHamwich]

I meant for me. I wass just saying it because Max said no one ever had.

However, ...it's not the same game, but it's amazing, and it's going to get better.
Very very good post. Kudos man, kudos.

[l Maximus l]

Gollum...that's the ultimate problem with Halo 2...it's not the same game. I am a hardcore Halo fan...so much that it was a rarity if I ever played another game. Yeah, I played and beat Ninja Gaiden...good hiatus...and I played Rallisport Challenge 2...good times...and I played Burnout 3 for a couple months leading up to the Halo 2 release...but, I mostly played Halo CE.

What I'm getting at is that Halo 2 is disappointing for the simple fact that it is a different game by the very definition. It's hardly a sequel...maybe based on story but not on style and physics. Sure, it's prettier, it has sweet custom multi-player options, it has a sweet stats environment via Bungie.net, and it is XBL compatible (which completely rocks), but, that's it. Like most people (or atleast the most hardcore of Halo CE fans), we expected the game to have a few additional weapons, a bunch of new maps and environments, increased graphics, and XBL compatibility. I had an open mind about dual wielding, vehicle boarding, and no fall damage, but, I had no idea that the entire physics of the game were going to change so dramatically. I was expecting the game to add a few things, not take out things. I thought the Battle Rifle was essentially the pistol's new look but without a zoom, it shot three shot bursts and single shots with it zoomed in. Bungie simply changed the game and had a grandma, a kid that doesn't play games, and a parent test the game...not hardcore Halo CE fans. They simply are marketing the game to a wider audience and left the hardcore fans in the dust. That's the way I see it.

Seriously, man...put in Halo CE...select Battle Creek...hang out for 5 minutes running around...maybe play someone 1 v 1 or something. Then shove in Halo 2 and select Beaver Creek...play for 5 minutes and play 1 v 1. Next, shove back in Halo CE and put on Battle Creek again. Finally, put in Halo 2 and play Beaver Creek again. Do the same with Halo CE on Blood Gulch and then Halo 2's Coagulation. Except on BG and Coagulation, make sure to drive the Warthog around as well as everything else.

Do it when or if you get the time. I knew they were different, but, I couldn't believe the feeling I was having after I did this...and it's incredible how ridiculously different they are.

Let me know what you think should you decide to try it.

[Whisper]

but no one is really right or wrong. it's all just preference. :cheers:

it took a long time for someone to say it.


Out of all my friends i chummed in Halo 1 with.. I was in the top 3.. so I consistently had fun, never was frustrated by sucking.. I still find Halo 2 a more fun game.. there is more variety around.. more strategies are used, and even though some people think the weapons are unbalanced.. I find it more fun to be using a variety
-------

HALO 2:
- Look there's the battle rifle, I can use that and kill
- Look there's a plasma rifle, I can combine that with the SMG and get kills
- Look there's another SMG, I can pick it up and use it against others
- Look there's the shotgun, I can be deadly close range, anyone who comes near can be blasted
- Look there's the sniper, I can use that and rack up some kills, but I still have to contend with the BR and smart people who know how to disarm a sniper
- Look there's a plasma pistol, I can combine that with anything and be effective
- Look there's a magnum, it's a violent little bugger

HALO 1:
- Look i started with a pistol... well.. everyone else is using it.. so i might as well..

[FB-Gollum]

Gollum...that's the ultimate problem with Halo 2...it's not the same game. I am a hardcore Halo fan.

To be honest Max, that's not the problem with Halo 2, that's the problem with you. It's not an insult so please don't get your back up, it's the same with A LOT of people.

Consider this; Let's reverse roles. Let's say Halo 2 was a launch title. It had Halo CE's graphics, but the gameplay and physics model from Halo 2. You think we wouldn't have become obscenely addicted to that? Of course we would have, Halo 2 would have owned our lives just like Halo CE did. Because there's nothing else out there remotely as good. ecause it takes advantage of the system link feature in a way that no other game has. Because it's insanely fun and customizable and we'd have all tapped in to that over the course of the last 4 years.

Now let's say "Halo 2" gets released. Of course, Halo 2 is really Halo CE. What would we be saying? (remembering we've been playing nothing but Halo 2 for the last 4 years).

- Damn, this is lame! I can't jump worth ****!

- What the hell? I die every time I fall, so much for my super leap of faith flag runs and mid-air battles.

- Where's my dual wield? I can only use 1 plasma rifle? What's the point?

- What the hell happened to the grenades? The blast radius is SO big. I can get a kiltacular w/ 1 of them. They totally noobed it out.

- Why are all these bloody maps symmetrical? And WTF is with Chiron? (Ok, so maybe that one goes both ways)

- 3 hits to kill!?!?! This "Pistol" is SO NOOBED OUT. It zooms? I don't see a scope. And where the hell is the recoil? At least the BR recoiled.

There's so much more. The bottom line is we played one for so many years that any differences we're bound to meet with resistance and we're all still busy trying to forget what we know. If the above were the case, we'd have 6 million threads of Halo 2 > Halo CE.

[Soundscape]

probably the worst thing about the game is the massive auto-aim. it takes ALOT of the skill out of the game. it's disgusting. this video shows a nice demonstration of just how rediculous the auto-aim is in halo 2. http://home.exetel.com.au/pyroteq/H2SBeta2.wmv

this game was intentionally 'noobed out'.




HALO 1:
- Look i started with a pistol... well.. everyone else is using it.. so i might as well..

and whoever has the best aiming skills will get the kill on the lesser skilled player in most all cases. but with halo 2 it's more reliant on what weapon(or combinations of weapons) you're wielding compared to what your opponent is wielding.
then factor in the auto-aim which takes most of the required aiming skill out of the game and you have one unbalanced and 'noobed out' game.

[stormin4]

So it turns out Halo 2 wasn't the equivalent of a God Descending from the Heavens. Now that we all realise this, can we just play the damn game?

Yes it was. The more I play other games the more I realize there is no comparison.

[TOTTEN]

probably the worst thing about the game is the massive auto-aim. it takes ALOT of the skill out of the game. it's disgusting. this video shows a nice demonstration of just how rediculous the auto-aim is in halo 2. http://home.exetel.com.au/pyroteq/H2SBeta2.wmv

this game was intentionally 'noobed out'.




Damn Thanks for the video. Very imformative stuff.

[FB-Gollum]

Hmmm. Good video. There's lots of stuff I agree with. But not everything. The thing about comparing the pistol to the BR/PP combo is just stupid. You can't compare 2 weapons to one. Besides, in MLG the BR is paired with an SMG, it's not like everyone on the whole map is running around with a PP/BR combo.

[Whisper]

and whoever has the best aiming skills will get the kill on the lesser skilled player in most all cases. but with halo 2 it's more reliant on what weapon(or combinations of weapons) you're wielding compared to what your opponent is wielding.
then factor in the auto-aim which takes most of the required aiming skill out of the game and you have one unbalanced and 'noobed out' game.

and playing with good people, it became the first person to see the other person gets the kill.. so the game for me became a chicken game.. you can do much more in Halo 2.. and I don't know how good you are, but I can manage taking people out despite what weapons they are using (in most cases, there are still some impossible things - but that's life)

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

Besides, in MLG the BR is paired with an SMG, it's not like everyone on the whole map is running around with a PP/BR combo.

Heh... in an MLG custom, typically you have 1 or 2 guys with a combo. 1 other has the sniper and the other has the sword if the sniper doesn't have it.

Taking out a DW with the jump melee would have to be against a really horrible player. It only really helps if you are weak so that you can bring their shields down just as low as yours so it takes 1-2 shots. Also, you got to get it before the first shot is fired if you want a good chance.

[FB-Gollum]

Taking out a DW with the jump melee would have to be against a really horrible player. It only really helps if you are weak so that you can bring their shields down just as low as yours.

Hmmm? I respectfully disagree. Usually, I rush in with my single SMG and bring his shields down low enough that jump melee finishes him, rather than the other way around. Or I'll pepper his shields then duck behind something until he gets too close, then jump melee him. Let's remember that the Jump Melee is still relatively new and we haven't got the timing down pat yet or fully discovered all it's uses.

[l Maximus l]

Hmmm. Good video. There's lots of stuff I agree with. But not everything. The thing about comparing the pistol to the BR/PP combo is just stupid. You can't compare 2 weapons to one. Besides, in MLG the BR is paired with an SMG, it's not like everyone on the whole map is running around with a PP/BR combo.

The point of that was to show that, indeed, it takes skill to pull of three shots in the head with a pistol...not even the most "l33t" of Halo CE players will admit that they can do it every single time. And, for the sake of arguement, if they could, then, damn...they're freakin' insanely good.

It doesn't require a skilled person to pull off a BR/PP combo kill. That was the point. You shoot the PP at full charge, switch weapon to BR, and then shoot once. And, because it's so easy to do, it's extremely difficult to tell between an intermediate and a pro Halo 2 player.

The following chart says it all:

http://halo2sucks.com/images/skillmeter.gif

[FB-Gollum]

The point of that was to show that, indeed, it takes skill to pull of three shots in the head with a pistol...not even the most "l33t" of Halo CE players will admit that they can do it every single time. And, for the sake of arguement, if they could, then, damn...they're freakin' insanely good.

It doesn't require a skilled person to pull off a BR/PP combo kill. That was the point. You shoot the PP at full charge, switch weapon to BR, and then shoot once. And, because it's so easy to do, it's extremely difficult to tell between an intermediate and a pro Halo 2 player.

The following chart says it all:

http://halo2sucks.com/images/skillmeter.gif

Yeah, and my point is that it's a pointless comparison because EVERYONE has a pistol in Halo CE and only a FEW people get the PP/BR combo. If you want to compare apples to apples compare the pistol to the BR straight up. Saying that a combo you don't start with doesn't take skill compared to the default setting is like comparing the pistol to the rocket launcher or the sword. It's 2 different things and they are not equivalent.

Conversely, if we compare apples to apples, (Pistol to BR straight up, as they are both defaults, at least in MLG rules) we see that the BR takes more shots to kill, so even with greater aim-assist, it's reasonably equivalent level of skill required.

PS. That chart is hysterical.

PPS. Has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe, with such an incredibly larger pool of players in Halo 2, that maybe, there's just a lot more good players out there?

[ScorpionX]

Conversely, if we compare apples to apples, (Pistol to BR straight up, as they are both defaults, at least in MLG rules) we see that the BR takes more shots to kill, so even with greater aim-assist, it's reasonably equivalent level of skill required.

hahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahhahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahhahahahahahahahahahhaahahhah
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I didn't just hear that :rofl:

There is a reason why nobody bothers to show their 4-shot burst kills in montages, cause the skill level isn't even COMPARABLE to a three shot kill in halo

Wow

:eek:

[FB-Gollum]

hahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahhahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahhahahahahahahahahahhaahahhah
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I didn't just hear that :rofl:

There is a reason why nobody bothers to show their 4-shot burst kills in montages, cause the skill level isn't even COMPARABLE to a three shot kill in halo

Wow

:eek:

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

See, I can make extended laughing noises too. So let me get this straight, no one shows their 4 burst kills is because it's so easy to do, yet they pepper their montages with PP/BR combo's? Even though we've established it's the combo that makes it hard to tell intermediates from Pro's? Yes that makes perfect sense because lord knows the PP/BR is the hardest thing in the world to do. Right. Excellent post Scorp. Back to school for you.

[ScorpionX]

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See, I can make extended laughing noises too. So let me get this straight, no one shows their 4 burst kills is because it's so easy to do, yet they pepper their montages with PP/BR combo's? Even though we've established it's the combo that makes it hard to tell intermediates from Pro's? Yes that makes perfect sense because lord knows the PP/BR is the hardest thing in the world to do. Right. Excellent post Scorp. Back to school for you.

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Nice job showing me who the immature one is and a BR is harder to use than a pistol. Oh wait, you haven't proven sh/t, but nice job on making me have to scroll to read yet another stupid post on this forum.

http://asuaf.org/~thatoneguy/cookie.jpg

So please, explain to me how in the world you can justify the BR being as hard to use as the pistol, considering anybody decent can easily pull off a four burst kill.

[l Maximus l]

So please, explain to me how in the world you can justify the BR being as hard to use as the pistol, considering anybody decent can easily pull off a four burst kill.

Not only that, but, Halo 2 is so n00bed out that even if only one shot of the "three shot burst" hits an opponent, the person shooting still gets full credit as if all bursts hit. And, on top of that, add auto-aim in the mix! It's pathetic...

Comparing the Pistol with the Battle Rifle is like comparing Apples to Doggy dung.

[FB-Gollum]

I get a cookie? Sweet. I like cookies. Here's the funny thing though, you haven't responded to what I said. I suggested the skill level was "reasonably equivalent". I also questioned your logic by pointing out that montages are rife with far easier tactics than a 4 burst kill (in response to your contention that they aren't shown because they are too easy relative to a 3 shot pistol kill). You have not responded with anything other than a kindergarten-esque retort of "no it isn't". I can't respond to a blunt denial. There has to be some logical argument for me to respond to. I may be wrong, I certainly accept that, but you've said nothing to prove it.

So here's a suggestion:

1. Learn to comprehend what you scroll so far to read.

2. Learn to make a constructive point. That consists of a hypothesis, a premise and a conclusion.

3. Stop being such a hostile whiny *****. It doesn't impress anyone.

[FB-Gollum]

Not only that, but, Halo 2 is so n00bed out that even if only one shot of the "three shot burst" hits an opponent, the person shooting still gets full credit as if all bursts hit.


See? that's a "point". I didn't know that. Where did you get that info from Max? That is really noobish. What do you mean when you say the shooter "gets full credit"? Do you mean they get credit in their accuracy stat? Or does it do full damage as if all 3 bursts hit?

[l Maximus l]

See? that's a "point". I didn't know that. Where did you get that info from Max? That is really noobish.

I don't mean to come across as a smart ass when I say this, but, how can you not notice it? But, if you haven't paid that close attention to it, I can understand why you haven't noticed it...many people haven't.

I suggest try it for yourself so you can see it. You'll have to shoot someone while they are running to notice it, which shouldn't be too tough since most people don't stand around. If only one bullet hits from a three shot burst, it's as if they were hit by all three shots. Do this four times in a row at their head and you'll get a kill everytime, even if only four total bullets hit their head (as long as they are different three shot bursts).

Also, have you ever wondered why vehicles only blow up based on how much energy that the driver has and not the damage of the vehicle itself? That one perplexes me almost as much.

[Soundscape]

Besides, in MLG the BR is paired with an SMG
only on teamball. on all other gametypes there is no secondary starting weapon except for team slayer on colossus which has BR as secondary and human sniper as primary.

and that vid isn't finished yet....it's just a beta version. that's why the last 2 minutes was blank. supposedly some guy is putting it together for halo2sucks.com

[wbio]

I don't mean to come across as a smart ass when I say this, but, how can you not notice it? But, if you haven't paid that close attention to it, I can understand why you haven't noticed it...many people haven't.

I suggest try it for yourself so you can see it. You'll have to shoot someone while they are running to notice it, which shouldn't be too tough since most people don't stand around. If only one bullet hits from a three shot burst, it's as if they were hit by all three shots. Do this four times in a row at their head and you'll get a kill everytime, even if only four total bullets hit their head (as long as they are different three shot bursts).

Also, have you ever wondered why vehicles only blow up based on how much energy that the driver has and not the damage of the vehicle itself? That one perplexes me almost as much.
This makes the PP/BR combo even easier, all you have to do is hit the guy with one bullet out of the three bullet burst and he's dead, it makes it too easy, all you have to do is sweep across the head while shooting.

[MerimacHamwich]

I admire you for even considering trying to speak civilly with some of these poeple Gollum. Kudos again.

[Whisper]

even if only four total bullets hit their head

I didn't realise it takes more than that to kill a man.

[Soundscape]

If only one bullet hits from a three shot burst, it's as if they were hit by all three shots. Do this four times in a row at their head and you'll get a kill everytime, even if only four total bullets hit their head (as long as they are different three shot bursts).
i've done a little experimenting myself and i'm not so sure that's true though, max. but then again it was on a person who was just standing still.
watch the part of the vid where they're demonstrating the auto aim at lockout with the br , where the reticle is just off the guy's head. notice he shoots him 5 times in a row while probably only hitting the guy with one bullet from each burst and the guy still has some sheild left. so i dunno, man.




I didn't realise it takes more than that to kill a man.
i'm pretty sure it takes four bursts from the BR at minimum. but that's IF ALL 3 bullets from each burst hits the person and the last burst hits the head.

[l Maximus l]

i've done a little experimenting myself and i'm not so sure that's true though, max. but then again it was on a person who was just standing still.
watch the part of the vid where they're demonstrating the auto aim at lockout with the br , where the reticle is just off the guy's head. notice he shoots him 5 times in a row while probably only hitting the guy with one bullet from each burst and the guy still has some sheild left. so i dunno, man.

Because the three bullets come out in a burst so quickly, it's inevitable that they are all three going to hit an opponent standing completely still. Again, try doing it on a moving target...also, when I said "four", I met in the head...no body shots. It takes five bursts to kill an opponent if you hit their torso or any other part of their body that is not the head.

Just like wbio said, if a person BR/PP combos a person, only one bullet from that burst kills your target after the PP is shot and takes down the shield. Even the above video shows the first one or two bullets missing and him getting tagged by the third bullet in the burst.

[Soundscape]

Because the three bullets come out in a burst so quickly, it's inevitable that they are all three going to hit an opponent standing completely still.
not if you're at a reasonable distance from the person. because, as i'm sure you know, the bullets from a 3 shot burst spread out over a distance.



also, when I said "four", I meant in the head...not body shots.
as i understand it, it doesn't matter where you shoot a person when their sheild is up, because it all does the same damage to the shield no matter where you shoot them....head or body. headshots are only a factor once the person's shield is down.

watch the vid again. the guy shoots him 5 times in a row in what looks to be the head with probably only one or two bullets from each burst, and he still has some shield left.

but maybe i'm completely missing your point. :confused:

[FB-Gollum]

I did an experiment last night and it's not true. At varying distances I fired rounds from the battle rifle at varying heights at a target and watched the damage. When aiming at the head from any distance other than point blank the second and third shots sailed over the head. The only way to succesfully do a 4 burst kill is to aim the first 3 shots at the main body, then move up to the head for the final shot. So no, it does not register all 3 bullets if only one hits, all 3 hits are most definitely registered individually.

Furthermore, I did some experiments on the auto-aim. Firstly, it's not auto-aim. AA actually moves your reticle to the target. In this case, it's a 1 way aim-assist. If you are stationary and an enemy runs through your reticle it does not respond. It will turn red but the enemy will pass through it and it will not move to follow them. However, if YOU are moving you reticle, it will slow down as it passes over an enemy. However, it does not "follow" them, it simply slows.

As far as the video showing how innacurate you can be and still hit, I did my own experiment and can easily produce a video to show how the tolerance is just fine (for example you can shoot between the legs of a walking target and not hit them).

Basucally, that video is really biased and has an agenda to prove. Like them using shots from a montage of Walka (or some pro, I thnk it's Walka) making amazing sniper shots and proclaiming "even noobs can snipe!". Right. That's a pro making those shots and it's a rare day I've fired a shot anyhting like the ones they show, those are incredible because a freaking pro is doing it. Show me a legit level 10 dropping shots like that. Right, I didn't think so.

Don't believe the hype people. Try it for yourself.

[TOTTEN]

Basucally, that video is really biased and has an agenda to prove. Like them using shots from a montage of Walka (or some pro, I thnk it's Walka) making amazing sniper shots and proclaiming "even noobs can snipe!". Right. That's a pro making those shots and it's a rare day I've fired a shot anyhting like the ones they show, those are incredible because a freaking pro is doing it. Show me a legit level 10 dropping shots like that. Right, I didn't think so.



All you got to do is lead the shot and anyone can be a great sniper and the shot was from the rippon montage.

[FB-Gollum]

All you got to do is lead the shot and anyone can be a great sniper and the shot was from the rippon montage.

Frankly, TOTTEN, you're an 18. You're a good player, I'm sure for you it's easy. But I see lots of people who aren't good snipers. They try to make it sound like it's the simplest thing in the world. It isn't. There is skill required.

[Soundscape]

As far as the video showing how innacurate you can be and still hit, I did my own experiment and can easily produce a video to show how the tolerance is just fine (for example you can shoot between the legs of a walking target and not hit them).
how is the tolerance 'just fine' when the sights can be completely off the target but the shots still hit? that's what i refer to as 'auto-aim'.
and frankly, big deal you can shoot between character model's legs. i mean how often do you find yourself shooting at a person's legs anyway? that does not make up for the 'noobed out' auto-aim.




Basucally, that video is really biased and has an agenda to prove. Like them using shots from a montage of Walka (or some pro, I thnk it's Walka) making amazing sniper shots and proclaiming "even noobs can snipe!". Right. That's a pro making those shots and it's a rare day I've fired a shot anyhting like the ones they show, those are incredible because a freaking pro is doing it. Show me a legit level 10 dropping shots like that. Right, I didn't think so.
first off that was from the rippon mantage, not walka.
second ...it doesn't matter who it was, one shot(where he snipes a guy on the hardwood at ivory tower) was WAY WAY off target and he still got the headshot kill, and another(the last kill of the triple shown at lockout) was also pretty far off and looks to have went through a structure for the headshot kill. it's rediculous, and has happened to me several times. and i'm sure rippon put those shots in his montage to show just how rediculous halo 2 can be.
third ...matchmaking rank isn't very representative of how good a player actually is. alot of great players refuse to play matchmaking, and many others have also stopped and have become much better since then. so rank doesn't mean much in alot of cases.




Don't believe the hype people. Try it for yourself.
don't believe what hype?

[FB-Gollum]

how is the tolerance 'just fine' when the sights can be completely off the target but the shots still hit? that's what i refer to as 'auto-aim'.
and frankly, big deal you can shoot between character model's legs. i mean how often do you find yourself shooting at a person's legs anyway? that does not make up for the 'noobed out' auto-aim.

Alright SS, you know I like you buddy, so please take this with a grain of salt. You're missing my point. The point is that if there is such "massive" AA, then how com you can make a shot so precise? Of course in a game you won't be shooting at a person's legs, who cares? My point is that if the AA was so severe that you would not be able to make a precise shot like that at all. Like I said, it's not Auto Aim. It's a bit of assistance from increased friction as you drag your reticle over a target.


first off that was from the rippon mantage, not walka.

Great, I said I THOUGHT it was Walka and I wasn't sure, either way it's a pro montage and my point stands.

second ...it doesn't matter who it was, one shot(where he snipes a guy on the hardwood at ivory tower) was WAY WAY off target and he still got the headshot kill,

How is that when discussing any online game we are always aware of lag and it's effects but when it's time to bash halo 2 we overlook these things to prove a point? You know as well as I do that what you see and what the game is actually doing can be 2 very different things. It's more than likely that the character was actually a step ahead of the model and that according to the game it hit him. Even if that's not the case we can't prove with any certainty what the cause of a single anomaly is therefore we can't decisively call it auto aim. Come on guys? How much did you have to lead targets on XBC due to lag?

and another(the last kill of the triple shown at lockout) was also pretty far off and looks to have went through a structure for the headshot kill.

Obviously lag.

it's rediculous, and has happened to me several times.

Once again, any half experienced online gamer knows that weird things happen. Different connections, lag spike and latency can all cause these oddities. The fact that it only happened "several times" is a testament to how goosd the netcode for H2 actually is. Most online games weird deaths are a rule rather than an exception.


third ...matchmaking rank isn't very representative of how good a player actually is. alot of great players refuse to play matchmaking, and many others have also stopped and have become much better since then.

Good for them. I specifically said a "legit" level 10. Not a former level 30 with a new account or an MLG pro that doesn't matchmake.


don't believe what hype?

The hype of people coming on and making claims about how the game plays (like how all 3 rounds from a BR hit regardless) that they haven't taken the time to do objective tests on. I took 30 minutes and proved beyond any doubt that it is false. Of course, no one chose to respond to that. No one cared to say "hey, that's false? cool maybe it's not so lame". Go test things for yourself in a controlled environment, rather than listening to "hype".


PS. If you test things you will realize that the strikeable area of a character extends a few pixels beyond the character model. Most games online are like this, the reason being? What you see and what is really there are usually just a bit off, it compensates for lag. So it's not something we should be complaining about. In that video that's what they are doing, is shooting the area around the character model. Big woop. They proved that Bungie considered the effects of lag on the sensory perception of gameplay.

We need to start being more objective people, there's a whole lot of bias out there and it's clouding judgement. If we take thetime to test tings out and expand our understanding it will shift our perspective. Shifting our perspective will change how we feel about different issues and how we view facts about gameplay. I've been playing online games for over 15 years. H2 is far and away the best online game I have ever played.

[E Nomini Patri]

Max, that post about the BR counting 1 bullet hit as 3 hits is kinda ridiculous. Thanks for testing it out Gollum.

I think some of you guys going crazy over the "n00bed out" stuff in Halo 2 need to chill out. I know it pisses me off too but you guys are getting a little too serious over it. Just play the game, because if it is as bad as you guys say it is you would not still be playing it. That's the exact same reason I don't play some of my other games, cause they suck. Just don't be so easy to anger over a game when you purposely subject yourself to it.

[Soundscape]

yeah gollum, i like you too, man..but i just really dsagree with you on a few things about this game.



Great, I said I THOUGHT it was Walka and I wasn't sure, either way it's a pro montage and my point stands. yeah, i guess that came off wrong. i didn't intend to be a **** towards you.




How is that when discussing any online game we are always aware of lag and it's effects but when it's time to bash halo 2 we overlook these things to prove a point? You know as well as I do that what you see and what the game is actually doing can be 2 very different things. It's more than likely that the character was actually a step ahead of the model and that according to the game it hit him. Even if that's not the case we can't prove with any certainty what the cause of a single anomaly is therefore we can't decisively call it auto aim. Come on guys? How much did you have to lead targets on XBC due to lag? you make a good point, but i think alot of it is due to the lag compensation bungie added to sniping so that if the reticle is red and you pull the trigger you practicly automaticly get a headshot.




e of people coming on and making claims about how the game plays (like how all 3 rounds from a BR hit regardless) that they haven't taken the time to do objective tests on. I took 30 minutes and proved beyond any doubt that it is false. Of course, no one chose to respond to that. No one cared to say "hey, that's false? cool maybe it's not so lame". dude, i already said that was false...but i see your point.





in the video that's what they are doing, is shooting the area around the character model. Big woop. They proved that Bungie considered the effects of lag on the sensory perception of gameplay. in the video, the guy was aiming just off his head, but the bullet was pulled into the guy's head. it wasn't just hitting the few pixels that extend outside of the body. that's auto-aim for you, and that's what i keep referring to. check the part of the vid again where they're demonstrating the auto aim at ivory tower with the plasma pistol single shots, and you'll see what i mean. the shots are literally pulled into the guys head.

[FB-Gollum]

Check the part of the vid again where they're demonstrating the auto aim at ivory tower with the plasma pistol single shots, and you'll see what i mean. the shots are literally pulled into the guys head.

See, that's what I'm talking about bias. The plasma pistol is a homing shot, of course it gets pulled in. That does not happen with the BR, Sniper or ANY other gun. But they of course, didn't bother to show that. Or if they did, they were shooting the perimeter and calling it AA.

Of course, what we should really do is a straight up controlled comparative analysis between the 2. Let's go on Beaver/Battle creek (for consistency) get one person standing on each base in the exact same spot and test this stuff out.

I've got 10 dollars to a doughnut that we see the plasma homes and the others wil hit the perimeter around the character butnot actually home in.

[Soundscape]

The plasma pistol is a homing shot, of course it gets pulled in. That does not happen with the BR, Sniper or ANY other gun. no, i wasn't aware that single plasma shots are homing. that's a new one on me. maybe you're right, though.

and you can't really track bullets visually other than plasma shots so it would be difficult to tell if they're pulled in or are actually hitting the few pixels outside the body.

[FB-Gollum]

no, i wasn't aware that single plasma shots are homing. that's a new one on me. maybe you're right, though.

and you can't really track bullets visually other than plasma shots so it would be difficult to tell if they're pulled in or are actually hitting the few pixels outside the body.

Well, I'm not 100% sure either, I figure it stands to reason, but it can be tested easily enough. As for the other bullets, you just need a 3rd observer zoomed in. I guess I know what I'm doing tonight. I'll invite you if you're on and we can solve this. Get some hard data and prove or disprove a lot of the claims made on here.

I suggest you try the auto-aim thing though. Set your reticule stationary and have someone run through it and you will see other than turn red it will not move. When you move though, it's get friction and slows. But it did that in Halo CE as well (to compensate for the fact that controllers are more unwieldly than a mouse and keyboard, which is why the FPS has largely been the domain of PC's rather than consoles), perhaps not as much, but I'd like to check that in a controlled environment as well.

[Soundscape]

I guess I know what I'm doing tonight. I'll invite you if you're on and we can solve this. Get some hard data and prove or disprove a lot of the claims made on here.
i'd like to, but i probably won't be able to get on xbl tonight. i look forward to hearing what you find out about this, though.

[FB-Gollum]

i'd like to, but i probably won't be able to get on xbl tonight. i look forward to hearing what you find out about this, though.

Cool, I'll probably post my results tonight before I hit the sack. Likely around 4am EST. (as I'll be out getting ****-faced until then). :cheers:

PS. The irony of this thread is that it all started with Meriamac making a statement and me telling him off for it. 6 pages and 100+ posts later it's turned into a clinical analysis of Halo 2. Gotta love it.

[l Maximus l]

Max, that post about the BR counting 1 bullet hit as 3 hits is kinda ridiculous. Thanks for testing it out Gollum.

I think some of you guys going crazy over the "n00bed out" stuff in Halo 2 need to chill out. I know it pisses me off too but you guys are getting a little too serious over it. Just play the game, because if it is as bad as you guys say it is you would not still be playing it. That's the exact same reason I don't play some of my other games, cause they suck. Just don't be so easy to anger over a game when you purposely subject yourself to it.

Just FYI: I haven't played Halo 2 in over three weeks.

I'm not pissed off about the game...just highly disappointed that the Havok engine screwed up the entire physics of the game when I was simply expecting Halo 2 to be an extention of Halo 1, physics and all. Simply more maps, a few new weapons, a few more options...not a completely different game.

Again, I'm not pissed off...just extremely disappointed. I think that Bungie sold out to all the other people and basically rubbed the hardcore Halo fans face in the mud.

[Reclaimer]

It's hard to come into this so late and not say something that wasn't said before or mentioned in previous threads. But I will say this though..

Halo 2 offered a compelling story, another chapter in an excellent and engrossing story. Halo 2 also offered a great campaign over beatiful theaters and provided unique chances to revisit old friends, make new "friends" and see the story a different way. This alone I feel is at least 60% of the key success of Halo 2.
Now it's on XBL and it's leaving the hardcore enthusaists a bit out to dry.
You can't shake a stick at the campaign, despite how mindblowing the first game was, there isn't anything quite like the second chapter.

So now we get into the nitty and the gritty. I feel like Bungie took the opportunity to attempt to make Halo shine on XBL since Halo CE never had that chance. But I think they went too far. It's just easier to think, once again I'll say it, that Halo 2 on XBL becomes a different game completely then Halo CE on XBC or Halo PC.
Halo 2 has become a fast paced shooter complete with massive firepower and pretty graphics. However, this tends to leave the big games only to be a race to secure the power weapons.

On the otherhand, massive battles on Halo CE, or even PC being the same thing still being fast paced still hinged on individual skill. Yes, you can be awesome at Halo 2, but it only gets you so far.
My point is that if you take a well defendable map like Waterworks and even a hardened defense team, all could be lost if the enemy brings everything at you like the Wraith, rockets, sword, sniper, hogs and ghosts.
But in a similiar defense situation such as sidewinder or PC's Icefields, even if they bring the cavalry to you, everyone had the basic means to stop the tide. I'm talking about the pistol and good grenades. I don't want to spark another debate over the weapons. But, after playing an hour of Halo PC and an hour of Halo 2 over Live, it's not the same game one bit.
It is possible to polish something so much it becomes hazy, and I feel that's what happened. They strived to make Halo 2 everything to everyone that they incidently denied some very basic things that held Halo 1 together. Even if you made the weapons custom chosen, you can't deny the sword, no fall damage which just changes everything and just the basic physics of the game.
Halo 1 made you a cautious player, Halo 2 turns you into a hyper active warrior.
Core strategy gets exchanged for reckless abandon, and marksmanship is exchanged for sheer firepower.
You'd never hop out of a banshee at max altitude in Halo 1 because you would die. In Halo 2, it's all good and you'll live to complete your crazed mission. That is just one example.
Halo 2 can stand as an awesome FPS game. It is fun, and it does a lot of things right. But it's a travesty to consider that it's a sequel to Halo CE because so many things got changed for the sake of making the game faster, easier to learn thusly more able to sell copies.
Am I too unwillingly to let go of the past? Hell no. Halo 1 is still fun to play. If Halo 1 sucked, then maybe I would be slow to move on to Halo 2. But Halo 1 is still a joy to play, it never really gets old in the right settings. It's just a shame that the only way to experience what Halo 1 massive battles could have been is through the PC version.
Most people here associate Halo 1 over the internet with XBC and get a sour taste because of the lag. Most people wouldn't play Halo PC because of the system requirements. (which aren't that much, but soley rely on your video and sound.)
But the true greatness of Halo comes out in the PC version online. That's the best thing Halo 1 had and it's just a shame that it couldn't be experienced on Xbox Live.

[E Nomini Patri]

Just FYI: I haven't played Halo 2 in over three weeks.

I'm not pissed off about the game...just highly disappointed that the Havok engine screwed up the entire physics of the game when I was simply expecting Halo 2 to be an extention of Halo 1, physics and all. Simply more maps, a few new weapons, a few more options...not a completely different game.

Again, I'm not pissed off...just extremely disappointed. I think that Bungie sold out to all the other people and basically rubbed the hardcore Halo fans face in the mud.

It's not the havok that changed it necessarily, it's the weakened damage dealt by grenades and other adjustments. All havok does is move objects like corpses, boxes, vehicles, debris, and dropped or thrown weapons. It doesn't change how they work. But I still agree that it is lame that you can throw 3 plasma grenades onto a Warthog and it will still keep on going, or toss a frag in front and it doesn't flip. I remember the first time I tried, I got ran over because the hog didn't flip. I got so mad. :p

I still hate dual-wielding. It ruins my pwnage in rumble training. Last night I was playing some RT and I killed three guys right in a row only to get ambushed by a lame n00b-wielding punk ass. It's so frustrating get n00b-stalked also. Play some rumble and tell me you don't have at least one guy stalking you with a n00b-wield after you get a sniper rifle. It's so gay. You go to your little hiding spot and the ***** ambushes you to get your rifle. BUT! He sucks with it and dies before killing anyone. Jesus I hate n00b-stalking, n00b-wielding little ****monsters. Bargh.

I still hate one-grenade deaths. Especially in customs when it's a close game. You run on Lockout underneath the courtyard and an opponent under the sniper tower junks a frag at random and it happens to kill you. It's bull**** that I can't stand.

I still hate the spawn system. I was playing some Colossus and I get the sniper, head to blue base, have my little buddies cover me, and as we start killing the other team they start spawning at our base. Constantly. We got overrun and it pissed me off. Luckily the other team was abysmal.

I still hate idiotic opponents. I was playing an MLG TS game on Lockout, and some *** on the other team called me a combo-whore because I PP/BR'ed him twice. Then I lost a couple BR fights and he came up with the idea that I suck really bad. But I showed him. The next game I teamed up with him and did a lot better than he did. :p

I got standbyed in rumble training last night. :/

[Soundscape]

I still hate dual-wielding. It ruins my pwnage in rumble training. Last night I was playing some RT and I killed three guys right in a row only to get ambushed by a lame n00b-wielding punk ass. It's so frustrating get n00b-stalked also. Play some rumble and tell me you don't have at least one guy stalking you with a n00b-wield after you get a sniper rifle. It's so gay. You go to your little hiding spot and the ***** ambushes you to get your rifle. BUT! He sucks with it and dies before killing anyone. Jesus I hate n00b-stalking, n00b-wielding little ****monsters. Bargh.

I still hate one-grenade deaths. Especially in customs when it's a close game. You run on Lockout underneath the courtyard and an opponent under the sniper tower junks a frag at random and it happens to kill you. It's bull**** that I can't stand.

I still hate the spawn system. I was playing some Colossus and I get the sniper, head to blue base, have my little buddies cover me, and as we start killing the other team they start spawning at our base. Constantly. We got overrun and it pissed me off. Luckily the other team was abysmal.


yep, right on. i don't think i could possibly agree with you any more.
those are probably the three things that aggravate me most about this game.
sword camping and rockets on maps w/ no vehicles are pretty lame, too.
the combo is sort of a cheap kill in alot of cases too imo, but it's not as bad as the sword and rocket.

[l Maximus l]

It's not the havok that changed it necessarily, it's the weakened damage dealt by grenades and other adjustments. All havok does is move objects like corpses, boxes, vehicles, debris, and dropped or thrown weapons. It doesn't change how they work. But I still agree that it is lame that you can throw 3 plasma grenades onto a Warthog and it will still keep on going, or toss a frag in front and it doesn't flip. I remember the first time I tried, I got ran over because the hog didn't flip. I got so mad. :p

The entire game engine is different. It was built from the ground up. Personally, I thought that was Havok, but, perhaps I'm wrong. But, like you said, grenades don't flip vehicles, vehicles blow up based on the driver's damage and not the vehicle itself, grenades now have a small spash radius, and the list goes on and on.

I still hate dual-wielding. It ruins my pwnage in rumble training. Last night I was playing some RT and I killed three guys right in a row only to get ambushed by a lame n00b-wielding punk ass. It's so frustrating get n00b-stalked also. Play some rumble and tell me you don't have at least one guy stalking you with a n00b-wield after you get a sniper rifle. It's so gay. You go to your little hiding spot and the ***** ambushes you to get your rifle. BUT! He sucks with it and dies before killing anyone. Jesus I hate n00b-stalking, n00b-wielding little ****monsters. Bargh.

Isn't it funny when people say that Halo 2's weapon set is balanced? It's so much further from the truth. What was so cool about Halo CE is that you spawn with a useful weapon; however, in Halo 2, you spawn with an SMG which makes you the most vulnerable person on the map because everyone else has likely upgraded their weapon set. It's even more ridiculous on large maps and spawning in the middle of it with no chance of survival.

I still hate one-grenade deaths. Especially in customs when it's a close game. You run on Lockout underneath the courtyard and an opponent under the sniper tower junks a frag at random and it happens to kill you. It's bull**** that I can't stand.

Yes, Bungie still incorporated the "health" system with Halo 2; however, there is no way to regain 100% health eventhough your shield has fully replenished. Many people don't realize this, but, when you are in a battle with an opponent and you happen to get the lucky kill, your shield needs to be replenished...and when it does, it appears that it has fully replenished; however, it truly doesn't. So, if a person throws a grenade at you, you will die just like you would in Halo 1 if you had low health but a full shield. The flaw in this is that there are no health packs in Halo 2, which is completely beyond me.

[E Nomini Patri]

The entire game engine is different. It was built from the ground up.

Actually, the engine was upgraded to C++ code. That still means it had an overhaul. But, Bungie didn't start with a blank canvas. ;)

I agree about the health system. It was better knowing how many shots you could take after your shield got taken out. Now it is all about finding cover when you get shot, then juking the guy shooting at you so you can flank him or whatever.

[l Maximus l]

Actually, the engine was upgraded to C++ code. That still means it had an overhaul. But, Bungie didn't start with a blank canvas. ;)


Well, nonetheless, it feels like a completely different game...UC style.

[Xorg]

Yes, Bungie still incorporated the "health" system with Halo 2; however, there is no way to regain 100% health eventhough your shield has fully replenished. Many people don't realize this, but, when you are in a battle with an opponent and you happen to get the lucky kill, your shield needs to be replenished...and when it does, it appears that it has fully replenished; however, it truly doesn't. So, if a person throws a grenade at you, you will die just like you would in Halo 1 if you had low health but a full shield. The flaw in this is that there are no health packs in Halo 2, which is completely beyond me.

If that was true, wouldn't that mean if you where shot by a sniper and survived, then got shot again, and survived, you would have to die, but that doesn't happen anymore.

[Bloodshot18]

I am still a novice member to this site. In fact this is the first forum site I have joined; However, I have made many friends on this page that I enjoy playing with. If none of you saw my first post ever I will refresh your memory. I did not have an XBOX until after Halo 2 came out. I have only played Halo 1 maybe a dozen times and so I regrettingly (after hering all of your posts) was never as avid a fan of it as some of you folk are. Therefore this puts me in almost a totally different perspecitve as most of you. Halo 2 is my first XBOX game I have played. I changed system (PS2 to XBOX) strictly so I could play the game more. I truely enjoy the game and still after playing italmost on a daily basis for the extent of my having an XBOX will play it on Live for about 4 hours a day.

I was never that good at Halo 1 and most of you are right i think it is a completely different game with a totally different strategy. I have embraced this strategy and gotten pretty good at it. The only time I really care about the power of the weapons is on Head to Head battles when I am put up against a level 13 and I am a level 20 and he controls the game by having Sword Snipe on lockout Rock Snipe overshield on beaver or the combo on midship. Buit that is why I play Team Slayer mostly is because As a team you can defeat the other team by working together and if you are good enough as a group if you take out one sniper pick it up and take out the rocket andother sniper or whatever it might be then the momentum has swayed.

I have a problem with staying on the topic but my main point is that it does take skill to play Halo 2. Auto aim or auto assist or whatever does make it more "noob" friendly but the amount of different combos you can have make it easier (in my mind) to gain control of the key weapons. there is a strategy to controlling weapons. even if you have the power weapons you must be good at using them or else there is no affect in having them.

Anyways I will no doubt get ripped on for bringing up other random topics (i apologize for that but thats just how my mind works) but I cant help it. I love playing Halo 2 and I will take being ripped on in the forums much as I take standbyers with a grain of salt and a big whoop dee doo because **** happens and I'm not gonna let it get to my head.

[Soundscape]

there is a strategy to controlling weapons. even if you have the power weapons you must be good at using them or else there is no affect in having them.
yeah, but how hard is it to use the RL, sword, or a PP combo? even sniping is pretty easy in this game.

[Bloodshot18]

Rocket launchers are not hard to use. point and click. but make sure you point at the ground. It is difficult to get a direct shot with a rocket launcher and youd be surprised how many people try to. sword on the other hand can be dodged with a good jump (same with a plasma pistol) if you time them right. plasma pistols can be dodged with walls and such. Snipers can be avoided. dodging plasma pistols and sword lunges can save you valuable time and get in many more shots to kill an opponent with them. rockets are the only weapons i have difficulty with. It takes stealth, surprise, and intelligence to beat a sniper or a PP combo. It takes a shotgun to beat a sword. If you are in team swords use hieght to your advantage.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

There is a strategy to controlling weapons. even if you have the power weapons you must be good at using them or else there is no affect in having them.

There's more to it than just controlling the weapons. There are spawns. Whose closer and such. And once you get the weapons, it practically impossible to gain the weapons back. You stated things that could be done to take out A guy. I don't care who you are, but if a team has ALL of the power weapons. It's probable that you won't get them back. The best you can hope for is a screw up on their part. If you do manage to get them back, then it's probably too far into the game to do anything about it or they'll hide out.

[Soundscape]

Rocket launchers are not hard to use. point and click. but make sure you point at the ground. It is difficult to get a direct shot with a rocket launcher and youd be surprised how many people try to. sword on the other hand can be dodged with a good jump (same with a plasma pistol) if you time them right. plasma pistols can be dodged with walls and such. Snipers can be avoided. dodging plasma pistols and sword lunges can save you valuable time and get in many more shots to kill an opponent with them. rockets are the only weapons i have difficulty with. It takes stealth, surprise, and intelligence to beat a sniper or a PP combo. It takes a shotgun to beat a sword. If you are in team swords use hieght to your advantage.
yeah, man i know all of that stuff..i'm not a complete idiot when it comes to this game like you must think i am

i'm just saying that it's too easy to camp with the power weapons and rack up kills(ecspecially now that in most cases the power weapons don't respawn untill after they run out of ammo or fall off the map), and that basicly this game is pretty much a breeze and one sided once you have them.
even if one person makes a pretty big mistake and you happen to take him out you still have to deal with his teammates and their power weapons at the same time. your team usually will end up all dying unless the other team who had the good weapons sucks, and the guy(s) your team took out just spawns next to his surviving teammates and picks the weapons right back up if one of his teammates didn't already.
...and that's if you don't get sniped in the head before you can get into range.



instances that you're able to jump over a sword lunger are very, very rare... and jumping over a charged PP shot is almost impossible. all you can do is hope they miss in those situations.
and anyone that tries to shoot directly at you with a rocket is probably not very bright.
and you better hope that sword guy is unaware when you go to take him out with a such a very close ranged weapon like the inconsistant shotty, because most of the time the sword will win that matchup. you're better off keeping your distance and staying out of his lunge range.
but most times you don't have any idea the guy has a sword untill it's too late and you've came into it's lunge range. halfway intelligent players don't run around out in the open with the sword out. they lure you into it's range and then whip it out.


and i don't usually play lame gametypes like swords or matchmade games except training every now and then...and if it's something retarded like swords, shotties, or rockets where the host has advantage i'll immediately quit out.


Rocket launchers are not hard to use. point and click.
yeah, the same could be said for the sword and to a large extent duel wielding.

[Bloodshot18]

I don't think you are stupid. My comment wasn't only directed at you and again that doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid that is reading this. I am not writing on this topic to start a fight and I don't believe you are either. You stated your points and I told you some ways to beat them. and In return you told me all factual things
to refute those as well.

Respawn is interesting in Halo 2 I mostly don't have a problem with it unless it is Skirmish in which case you can easily spawn kill and neutralize a team. It takes an organized team to spawn kill and if your team is organized you can do it to them in return the next time around.

if you take out a unlucky sniper, sword guy, RL, combo, you then have those weapons if he doesnt have a teammate around to kill you. common sense. we know this doesn't happen often but when it does you use that weapon and in turn you get at least one maybe two maybe three kills before you die. if your whole teams kill ratio is like that
then there is no possible way you could lose. more kills than deaths all around = win.

again usually that doesnt happen he has a teammate with him or the whole team. so you keep the sniper occupied pepper him with BR so he cant zoom in. that make things difficult for him. when the sniper is occupied rush with dual wielders or jump on a turret if its available. throw nades. the possibilities are endless.

You are right instances where you avoid a sword lunge or a plasma pistol are rare (a PP dodge is rarer than a sword dodge unless there is a wall to duck behind) and I have never jumped over a PP shot but i have jumped under them plenty of times. not all the time but i have done it before and i know there is a chance to. And I'd rather take the
chance that I might avoid it than just stand there and take it.

A sword will beat a shotgun every time if the sword guy plays his cards right. all you have to do is stay within red range and wait for him to shoot from far away and boom one lunge and he cant pull the trigger fast enough to get off a second round. you can only hope the sword guy doesnt know you have a shotty by hiding it.

It is your opinion that matchmade games and swords are lame and I respect that. but I like to play them so that I get better at them. practice makes perfect.

swords and rocekts cant be used in the same catagory. swords don't have splash damage. you cant get a killtacular in a room with one swipe of the sword. you can with the rocket. thus why i have a problem with it.rockets require point and click. sword requires point click and timing.you can swipe as many times as you want from far away but you will look like a fool. you need to wait til the reticule is red.

I know you know everything I've said. what I said was common knowledge.again I'm not trying to start a fight I'm just trying to show a different perspective which is to me what a forum and a question is all about.

[Bloodshot18]

Lord stonepaw I don't know how but I completely missed your reply. and I completely agree with everything you said. If you have the lead which would be the case in your scenario the smart thing to do would be to hide out. though that makes many people mad it is the wise thing to not fight a battle you know you will lose. in the premises of a timed game if you have the lead and can wait out the time limit for the win then you should do it.

[l Maximus l]

If that was true, wouldn't that mean if you where shot by a sniper and survived, then got shot again, and survived, you would have to die, but that doesn't happen anymore.

Honestly, I haven't noticed that yet...but, that would be a great thing to test. I do know for a fact about grenades, as mentioned above.

[MixMasta]

I played three games of Halo 2 today, and it was fun. But my skills where sketchy...went 8, 10, 11 in Team Slayer. But I had this sweet snipe on Colossus, the blue team controlled the top, and I snuck in and snagged the sniper, and one guy chased me, I was hoping up and down, going backwards down the ramp to the bottom, and I got a head shot no zoom on him, it was awesome.

[l Maximus l]

Bloodshot,

While I think you're making a great case for Halo 2, I still think it has problems. First and foremost, I would like to say that reading your posts is a breath of fresh air even if I don't completely agree with them. You seem very reasonable and articulate in the way you have communicated...and for that, I applaud you.

From your standpoint, you haven't played much of Halo 1. I almost envy you because you could easily go back and play this game for the first time and experience its greatness for the first time. :D

But, on a more direct note, I agree that Halo 2 does require skill to be very good at the game; however, the learning curve is not very sharp compared to Halo 1. In Halo 1, a person that practiced 7 days per week trying to master the game still can improve his game with even more practice and time. There is no way to truly Master Halo 1 just like a person cannot master the game of golf, football, basketball, or baseball. In Halo 1, it was all about the skill of the player and the tactics he used in many given situations.

By contrast, Halo 2 the learning curve of getting better and better at the game is short. It's all about what weapon-set you and your team has and controlling those weapons. The weapons are not on timers; therefore, weapons only respawn when they are out of ammo and traded out (or unavailable because someone fell in a pit or something while carrying the weapon). And, when I say weapons, it's the power weapons. Take Coagulation for example: If you can control both snipers and the Rocket Launcher and grenade all the vehicles, you and your team will very likely be the victor. Take Colossus for example: If you control the Beam Rifle and have people guarding you with BR/PP combos, you will likely be the victor. In Foundation, if you control both Rocket Launchers, you will very likely be the victor. In Ascension, if your team controls the Banshee, both snipers and the Rocket Launcher, you and your team will likely be the victor.

Do you see how controlling weapons is the ultimate way to play and win Halo 2? In Halo 1, it's all about your sense of positioning, aiming, and timing. No one in Halo 1 scrambled for weapon upgrades because they respawned with the best overall weapon. Like you said in an earlier post, they both are very different games. And, sure, it takes skill to play Halo 2, but, like LordStonepaw pointed out, it also depends on how lucky a person is to spawn closest to a power weapon. Once they have it, it's all about controlling that power weapon for the rest of the match.

Why are people upset about Halo 2? The main reason is because hardcore Halo 1 fans wanted it to simply be an extension of what Halo 1 was, not completely change the physics and dynamics of what made Halo 1 so kick ass. Instead, we got a completely changed and revamped game that has elements to it that are not necessarily terrible, just so dramatically different that it's almost a shame to call it "Halo 2" when it should have been called "Unreal Quake" or something along those lines. Basically, hardcore Halo 1 fans wanted Halo 2 to be the same as Halo 1 but with a few new weapons, a slew of new multi-player maps, a few new vehicles (just for kicks), while maintaining the level of integrity of physics and dynamics that made Halo 1 so great. But, instead, Bungie gave us a completely different game.

[vman]

yes, maximus, yes. i totally agree with you, bro. i too share your views however, i still play halo2 because right now, its the easiest way for me to play a decent FPS on live with some friends. when i play, im usually playing ppl i know around my area. its really fun. in the next LAN game i go to, i will insist on playing halo once again and then see how dominant i will be with the pistol. i know plewis will thoroughly enjoy it because, according to him, he is a goddess at halo.

[Madhattr]

I bet if Halo CE had been released after Halo 2 (you know what I mean) more people would be complaining. The reason Halo 1 was so much more popular was mainly because it was fresh, it was something no one had yet seen. If Halo 2 had that kind of originality it would have been far more popular.
Halo 2 is a well rounded game, more so than Halo CE. It has many problems but all in all it is better.

[Soundscape]

how is halo 2 a better and more 'well rounded' game?

[Variation-XBA]

how is halo 2 a better and more 'well rounded' game?
How is it not? People have different opinions and can say the exact opposite that your going to say after this post probly :P

[Soundscape]

How is it not?
god, i think we've covered that. try reading the thread again :P :P :P :P :P

[Madhattr]

Haha sorry i'm not starting this argument again.

[Variation-XBA]

god, i think we've covered that. try reading the thread again :P :P :P :P :P
your the one that said how is it better.






















:P

[Soundscape]

and so did maximus. and he probably made the better points.
but if i already said how it was better, why would you ask me to repeat myself? :P

people keep saying that h2 is better but won't really explain how it is better even after i've asked.

madhatter - you say halo 2 is better and more well rounded, well i just want to hear your opinion as to why this is true.

[FB-Gollum]

Consider this; Let's reverse roles. Let's say Halo 2 was a launch title. It had Halo CE's graphics, but the gameplay and physics model from Halo 2. You think we wouldn't have become obscenely addicted to that? Of course we would have, Halo 2 would have owned our lives just like Halo CE did. Because there's nothing else out there remotely as good. ecause it takes advantage of the system link feature in a way that no other game has. Because it's insanely fun and customizable and we'd have all tapped in to that over the course of the last 4 years.

Now let's say "Halo 2" gets released. Of course, Halo 2 is really Halo CE. What would we be saying? (remembering we've been playing nothing but Halo 2 for the last 4 years).

- Damn, this is lame! I can't jump worth ****!

- What the hell? I die every time I fall, so much for my super leap of faith flag runs and mid-air battles.

- Where's my dual wield? I can only use 1 plasma rifle? What's the point?

- What the hell happened to the grenades? The blast radius is SO big. I can get a kiltacular w/ 1 of them. They totally noobed it out.

- Why are all these bloody maps symmetrical? And WTF is with Chiron? (Ok, so maybe that one goes both ways)

- 3 hits to kill!?!?! This "Pistol" is SO NOOBED OUT. It zooms? I don't see a scope. And where the hell is the recoil? At least the BR recoiled.

There's so much more. The bottom line is we played one for so many years that any differences we're bound to meet with resistance and we're all still busy trying to forget what we know. If the above were the case, we'd have 6 million threads of Halo 2 > Halo CE.

See, this is what happens with crazy long threads, this point was covered on page 3. :bang:

[MerimacHamwich]

Exactly. Poeple will read what they want to, and ignore the important stuff.

[Soundscape]

i'm not ignoring anything ,hamwich.

all i'm asking is for someone to tell me how h2's gameplay is better than h1's...because it's not.

the only thing that kinda made sense to me from gollum's post was the point about grenades. i like them better the way they are in h2 except that they dont flip vehicles...which makes it too easy for people who suck to hop in a vehicle and rack up kills on people who are on foot.

and the pistol is noobed out? wtf ever. that weapon took more skill to use than any weapon in halo 2.

[Madhattr]

I don't care anymore, and I am not getting into an argument of opinions again. It takes up too much time and is really pointless.

[Soundscape]

yeah, it is pretty pointless. i guess we'll all just have to agree to disagree.
one thing's for sure, though...the more i play this game the more i dislike it. i don't really think it's a bad game, though. ...just bad compared to halo:ce.

[Reclaimer]

I will say that I do not like how there is like no happy medium with hand grenades in both games.
Halo CE the grenades are like mini nukes. There is such a good feeling when the other team steals your flag and you run out behind the guy with the flag to throw a grenade beneath the waiting and loaded warthog. The grenade explodes, it kills the three people in the hog, the hog flips over and your flag just lays there. You saved the day.

In Halo 2, if you did that exact same thing the hog will drive off without a fender and your flag and the three attackers will be gone. Then you get sworded from behind by someone.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

Somewhere someone posted something about recoil. Recoil is only there if you have vibration on. If you play w/o vibration, you'll notice there's no recoil on your BR or anything else.

I will say that I do not like how there is like no happy medium with hand grenades in both games.
Halo CE the grenades are like mini nukes. There is such a good feeling when the other team steals your flag and you run out behind the guy with the flag to throw a grenade beneath the waiting and loaded warthog. The grenade explodes, it kills the three people in the hog, the hog flips over and your flag just lays there. You saved the day.

In Halo 2, if you did that exact same thing the hog will drive off without a fender and your flag and the three attackers will be gone. Then you get sworded from behind by someone.

lol... so true. There was a excitement and proud feeling.

[ghost 009]

Actually its more like this. Most people are ****ing idiots. Anyone who argues with me or max and a couple other people are ****ing idiots. Do you know why you are a ****ing idiot. Because I actually payed attention to what was going on before the game came out, you weren't. So please shut the **** up. Another thing is that I played halo 1 like a chimpanzee on crack. So anyone who plays me in halo 1 will probally get 3 shots to their mother ****ing head. Don't try to use the excuse I hate it cause I suck at it. I realize most people don't care or don't know this when they play halo 2 but all bungie is, is just a bunch of corporate scumbags. I don't care if people play halo 2, just don't argue with me. Now go piss more money down bungie's throat.

[E Nomini Patri]

Actually its more like this. Most people are ****ing idiots. Anyone who argues with me or max and a couple other people are ****ing idiots. Do you know why you are a ****ing idiot. Because I actually payed attention to what was going on before the game came out, you weren't. So please shut the **** up. Another thing is that I played halo 1 like a chimpanzee on crack. So anyone who plays me in halo 1 will probally get 3 shots to their mother ****ing head. Don't try to use the excuse I hate it cause I suck at it. I realize most people don't care or don't know this when they play halo 2 but all bungie is, is just a bunch of corporate scumbags. I don't care if people play halo 2, just don't argue with me. Now go piss more money down bungie's throat.

Thanks for your opinion buddy.

[FB-Gollum]

Actually its more like this. Most people are ****ing idiots. Anyone who argues with me or max and a couple other people are ****ing idiots. Do you know why you are a ****ing idiot. Because I actually payed attention to what was going on before the game came out, you weren't. So please shut the **** up. Another thing is that I played halo 1 like a chimpanzee on crack. So anyone who plays me in halo 1 will probally get 3 shots to their mother ****ing head. Don't try to use the excuse I hate it cause I suck at it. I realize most people don't care or don't know this when they play halo 2 but all bungie is, is just a bunch of corporate scumbags. I don't care if people play halo 2, just don't argue with me. Now go piss more money down bungie's throat.

Hmmm...someone needs a hug.

[MikeMan91389]

Hmmm...someone needs a hug.


i totallyzzz agree with you.. teh pizt0l is s0 t3h noobed out.. I mean, im sure you could get 3 shot kills all the time, and uz3d a timer, and control the powerups, but didn't feel like going to t3h tourn4m3nts 4nd w1nning teh mon3y since the pistol is s0 n00b3d ou7.


t3h fosho

[Variation-XBA]

Most people are ****ing idiots.

How ironic that you are talking about yourself and your comments. 0_o

[MerimacHamwich]

Actually its more like this. Most people are ****ing idiots. Anyone who argues with me or max and a couple other people are ****ing idiots. Do you know why you are a ****ing idiot. Because I actually payed attention to what was going on before the game came out, you weren't. So please shut the **** up. Another thing is that I played halo 1 like a chimpanzee on crack. So anyone who plays me in halo 1 will probally get 3 shots to their mother ****ing head. Don't try to use the excuse I hate it cause I suck at it. I realize most people don't care or don't know this when they play halo 2 but all bungie is, is just a bunch of corporate scumbags. I don't care if people play halo 2, just don't argue with me. Now go piss more money down bungie's throat.
Nice Halo 2 sig. :) Have fun playing Halo 1.

[Duke]

Same repetitive crap over and over

Heya Butterz, are you trying to get banned? I'll be happy to accommodate.

Stop acting like a complete moron and settle down.

[Reclaimer]

Heya Butterz, are you trying to get banned? I'll be happy to accommodate.

Stop acting like a complete moron and settle down.

You gotta admire Butterz's skill for tact and diplomacy. :whistle:

[FB-Gollum]

i totallyzzz agree with you.. teh pizt0l is s0 t3h noobed out.. I mean, im sure you could get 3 shot kills all the time, and uz3d a timer, and control the powerups, but didn't feel like going to t3h tourn4m3nts 4nd w1nning teh mon3y since the pistol is s0 n00b3d ou7.


t3h fosho

teh omfg what are you teh talking about 1111111111111 (WAIT WHERE'S MY SHIFT KEY? OH WAIT I'M IN CAPS!!!!!11!!!!11!!1!)_

Way to miss the point entirely. I swear to god I'm starting a thread on this forum called "E.S.L.". Ghost, Scorp, Mike and a slew of others are invited to attend. We will cover things like "reading comprehension" which will go a long way to helping in the fair exchange of thoughts on these boards.

PS. I play games for fun. I make more money than pro gamers already. Why would I want a pay cut?

[MikeMan91389]

teh omfg what are you teh talking about 1111111111111 (WAIT WHERE'S MY SHIFT KEY? OH WAIT I'M IN CAPS!!!!!11!!!!11!!1!)_

Way to miss the point entirely. I swear to god I'm starting a thread on this forum called "E.S.L.". Ghost, Scorp, Mike and a slew of others are invited to attend. We will cover things like "reading comprehension" which will go a long way to helping in the fair exchange of thoughts on these boards.

PS. I play games for fun. I make more money than pro gamers already. Why would I want a pay cut?

considering that there are reports of zyos making from 90g's last year, and > 100gs, on up to 250, i doubt you. most REALLY succesful people give up video games when they are making money. And uhhh, don't run tests, and give WRONG analysis. there is auto aim on the smg. i garuntee you that.



your a ****ing idiot. even if i couldn't read, look at your intelligent post. :

- 3 hits to kill!?!?! This "Pistol" is SO NOOBED OUT. It zooms? I don't see a scope. And where the hell is the recoil? At least the BR recoiled.

Noobed out? There wasn't nearly as much aim assist or auto aim with the pistol compared to most any weapons in halo2. You had to lead the person. Who cares if it has a scope. The game wasn't realistic, therefore, it doesn't matter if it shows a scope. The point is that it made for good gameplay. Next, recoil, who cares. Its a pistol. The recoil on the br is so much more because it shoots a 3 shot burst, and its a ****ing assault rifle, not a pistol, thats why there is recoil.

I haven't played halo1 in about a month and a half now because ive been busy and halo2 is just so much more convenient. with that said, I garuntee you I could beat you, and a high percentage of my kills wouldn't be three shot kills since i haven't been playing. 3 shotting takes skill, you aren't so good that you can lead them everytime, and quit talking like everyone can do it, because they cant, and you cant. You talk like you could three shot people. You couldn't, you may have thought that was a 3 shot kill, but your other 6 shots missed him, making it a 9 shot kill.

[FB-Gollum]

considering that there are reports of zyos making from 90g's last year, and > 100gs, on up to 250, i doubt you. most REALLY succesful people give up video games when they are making money. And uhhh, don't run tests, and give WRONG analysis. there is auto aim on the smg. i garuntee you that.



your a ****ing idiot. even if i couldn't read, look at your intelligent post. :



Noobed out? There wasn't nearly as much aim assist or auto aim with the pistol compared to most any weapons in halo2. You had to lead the person. Who cares if it has a scope. The game wasn't realistic, therefore, it doesn't matter if it shows a scope. The point is that it made for good gameplay. Next, recoil, who cares. Its a pistol. The recoil on the br is so much more because it shoots a 3 shot burst, and its a ****ing assault rifle, not a pistol, thats why there is recoil.

I haven't played halo1 in about a month and a half now because ive been busy and halo2 is just so much more convenient. with that said, I garuntee you I could beat you, and a high percentage of my kills wouldn't be three shot kills since i haven't been playing. 3 shotting takes skill, you aren't so good that you can lead them everytime, and quit talking like everyone can do it, because they cant, and you cant. You talk like you could three shot people. You couldn't, you may have thought that was a 3 shot kill, but your other 6 shots missed him, making it a 9 shot kill.

If you read, you'll realize that the post was a "what if" scenario. Not a statement of current fact.

No, I didn't make 250,000 dollars last year. So yes, Zyos makes more money than me. I'd like to see the average income of the rest.

No, I don't 3 shot everytime. It's not super easy to do. However, it's not the hardest thing in the world either. Halo was never a difficult game. Lots of people can do it, and I bet 10 dollars to a doughnut if Halo CE was on live you'd see that there's TONS of great players out there who just don't care to be professional about it. Can you beat me? Sure. Why not. Who cares. You don't have to be a pro to know. Don Cherry was never a great hockey player, but I'm pretty sure most people respect what he knows about the game.


*This post has been edited to remove hostile language.

[Soundscape]

the 'top 50 reasons why halo 1 is better than halo 2' video has been updated. check it out.
http://home.exetel.com.au/pyroteq/H2SBeta.wmv

h1>>>>>>>>>h2

[Reclaimer]

I'm locking this thread and temp banning the next hostile post, hostile retort or anything I can construe as a flame or a hostile act to another member.

Consider whatever was said in this thread to be in the past.
I can't say we all need to be adults here, because obviously not all of us are adults. So the best thing is that you guys can continue this thread in a mature manner or I'll start weeding you guys out of the problem.

[FB-Gollum]

Fair enough Rec. In hindsight, I should've been the one to show restraint. I just looked up the profile of a certain other member and realized that in fact they are quite young. In respect to this it's certainly quite unbecoming of me to be lashing out as if I were dealing with a peer. So to the individual in question, I wll say this; I do not appreciate the tone of your messages, but I retract my remarks, they aren't fair to someone young and developing. I'm going to edit them out. They needn't be remembered.

[CD6]

Actually its more like this. Most people are ****ing idiots. Anyone who argues with me or max and a couple other people are ****ing idiots. Do you know why you are a ****ing idiot. Because I actually payed attention to what was going on before the game came out, you weren't. So please shut the **** up. Another thing is that I played halo 1 like a chimpanzee on crack. So anyone who plays me in halo 1 will probally get 3 shots to their mother ****ing head. Don't try to use the excuse I hate it cause I suck at it. I realize most people don't care or don't know this when they play halo 2 but all bungie is, is just a bunch of corporate scumbags. I don't care if people play halo 2, just don't argue with me. Now go piss more money down bungie's throat.

this is the greatest post i have ever read

chimpanzees do crack?

[Variation-XBA]

the 'top 50 reasons why halo 1 is better than halo 2' video has been updated. check it out.
http://home.exetel.com.au/pyroteq/H2SBeta.wmv

h1>>>>>>>>>h2
Why not just make it a clicky in your sig or something so you don't have to keep posting h1>h2, even though it's just an opinion?

[Soundscape]

i don't recall ever posting "h1>h2" before that post..
if you're talking about the h1>h2 vid, well i just posted to let people that may be interested know that it had been updated. it's a work in progress.

[FB-Gollum]

In response to the above two...

Gentlemen prepare...TIME TO REVISIT THE LAST 8 PAGES ALL OVER AGAIN! :cheers:

[Madhattr]

Haha guess what everyone Halo 2 automatically is better because of the tiny fact it is on XBL and Halo 1 isn't there. There are hundreds of thousands of ppl playing Halo 2 and you don't need a computer and a snakes nest of wires to do it.

Quit arguing this is pointless, you make these ridiculous lists but guess what? In the end you go back to Halo 2 because it is the recent version, just like when Halo 3 comes out Halo 2 will just be a memory.

[Soundscape]

Haha guess what everyone Halo 2 automatically is better because of the tiny fact it is on XBL and Halo 1 isn't there. yes, but i asked how halo 2 is a better game besides the graphics, a few maps, and xbl. i asked how halo 2's gameplay is better. no one has answered yet.
you said it's a more well rounded game but could not back up that statement with any reason as to how it's more 'well rounded'.



the end you go back to Halo 2 because it is the recent version,
no, i and others who like halo 1 better do not go back to it because it's a more 'recent' version..we go back to it because it's soo convenient.

if i had a bunch of friends together we'd be playing h1, not h2...because h1's gameplay blows h2's out of the water.
h1 wasn't designed for n00bs and middle aged women like h2 was.

[Madhattr]

we go back to it because it's soo convenient.


AKA: Halo 2 \/\/i/\/Z0rz

[Soundscape]

look at you...you keep telling everyone else to quit arguing, but yet you keep saying that halo 2 is better. aren't you being a little hypocritical?

i may be arguing my case too, but atleast i'm not telling everyone else to shut up and then telling them that h1 is better. how idiotic.

h1's gameplay is much better and i play it's multiplayer almost every chance i get(not very often :( ), unlike h2...so it 'winszorz'. i played through h1's campaign many times, and i haven't and don't plan on finishing h2's..so in that regard it also 'winzorz'.
wow...looks like halo:ce just 'winzorz' all around.

but in your mind halo 'winzorz' just because it's more convenient....lol..whatever. you can't even back up your statements of how it's a more well rounded game.

[FB-Gollum]

I think they're both amazing games. But guess what? I'm going to reserve my judgement and stop guessing until Monday.

[Madhattr]

look at you...you keep telling everyone else to quit arguing, but yet you keep saying that halo 2 is better. aren't you being a little hypocritical?

i may be arguing my case too, but atleast i'm not telling everyone else to shut up and then telling them that h1 is better. how idiotic.

h1's gameplay is much better and i play it's multiplayer almost every chance i get(not very often :( ), unlike h2...so it 'winszorz'. i played through h1's campaign many times, and i haven't and don't plan on finishing h2's..so in that regard it also 'winzorz'.
wow...looks like halo:ce just 'winzorz' all around.

but in your mind halo 'winzorz' just because it's more convenient....lol..whatever. you can't even back up your statements of how it's a more well rounded game.

lol I am just ****ing around. Don't worry next time we are in a custom I will let you kill me a couple times to vent your rage. :cheers:

[MikeMan91389]

No, I didn't make 250,000 dollars last year. So yes, Zyos makes more money than me. I'd like to see the average income of the rest.


Most pros still play halo as a hobby, not for the money... Sooo, i'd have to ask them what their job is.


No, I don't 3 shot everytime. It's not super easy to do. However, it's not the hardest thing in the world either. Halo was never a difficult game. Lots of people can do it, and I bet 10 dollars to a doughnut if Halo CE was on live you'd see that there's TONS of great players out there who just don't care to be professional about it.

You're joking right? Halo was the most difficult xbox game out. There was no limit to skill. You wouldn't even score 1 on zyos 1v1 or 10 on the ogres 2v2 or 10 on team FFA 4v4 or Team DOM (a.k.a. StK) so how can you say the game wasn't difficult? I would take that bet with you. most good players, whether or not they wanted to be proffesional knew about xbc, because xbc is where most people uped and honed their skills.


Can you beat me? Sure. Why not. Who cares. You don't have to be a pro to know. Don Cherry was never a great hockey player, but I'm pretty sure most people respect what he knows about the game.
Yes, I can beat you. I care, dunno if others do. You don't have to be a pro to know, your actually right for once. Dude, your just like Don Cherry, cept your wrong, and very few people respect what you know about the game.


p.s. if this is too hostile for the watered down site that used to be great, goodbye xba.

[FB-Gollum]

Most pros still play halo as a hobby, not for the money... Sooo, i'd have to ask them what their job is.

It doesn't matter what their job is.

You're joking right? Halo was the most difficult xbox game out. There was no limit to skill.

Exactly, XBOX GAME. There's more than just Xbox in this world kid. And there's been lots of games a lot tougher. Go play Ghost Recon when it was at it's peak online if you want to see tactics and teamplay.

You wouldn't even score 1 on zyos 1v1 or 10 on the ogres 2v2 or 10 on team FFA 4v4 or Team DOM (a.k.a. StK) so how can you say the game wasn't difficult? I would take that bet with you. most good players, whether or not they wanted to be proffesional knew about xbc, because xbc is where most people uped and honed their skills.

So, basically we agree with eachother. I have played the OGRES thank you, and yes I got raped. (But I did better than 10). Are we surprised by this? I hope not. XBC was great fun, but I ran into a lot of really talented players all over the place. Lots of them didn't have broadband connections. How can I say the game isn't difficult? Against the cream of the crop anything is difficult, but that doesn't define the game.


Yes, I can beat you. I care, dunno if others do.

Talk about unsubstantiated claims. Why do you care?

You don't have to be a pro to know, your actually right for once. Dude, your just like Don Cherry, cept your wrong, and very few people respect what you know about the game.

For once? Check yourself kid, here's a newsflash, I'm right a lot. I've been gaming longer than you've been alive so please save the know it all routine for someone who isn't twice your age. I don't know everything about Halo, but I know more about games than you could possibly understand at this point. I make mistakes, but I'm humble and mature enough to admit when I do. Things like "playing with a timer" don't impress me. I've seen it all before. And no, I'm not a pro. I don't have the dexterity, time, or interest.

p.s. if this is too hostile for the watered down site that used to be great, goodbye xba

Please please let it be too hostile. I've been checking your posts and pretty much everything you post is just inciting problems. You're always hostile. To be honest, due to the fact that you're young, I'm kinda concerned. I mean, this display of hostility is a real sign of some social maladjustment in your real life. Ask yourself a question Mikeman, how is your social situation at school? Do you have friends? Do you find yourself a "loner"? Seriously dude, ask yourself where this anger stems from. Are you lashing out because your own real life leaves you so powerless? Consider maybe trying to be nice to people. Look at Maximus and I. I disagree with almost everything that guy says, but we don't break into insults because we're mature enough to have a conversation.

[Soundscape]

lol I am just ****ing around. Don't worry next time we are in a custom I will let you kill me a couple times to vent your rage. :cheers:
haha....sounds good to me. :)

[Madhattr]

Halo was the most difficult xbox game out.

I am gonna have to agree with Gollum, are you crazy? Halo was never that hard, the campaign was cake and unless you are up against some elite player onlline it's not that hard. And like Gollum said when you go up against great players any game is hard.

You had to practice using the pistol and grenades but other than those two weapons there isn't that much.

You want hard go to the Ninja Gaiden section.

[MikeMan91389]

lemme reprashe. it was the hardest multi player game out.

[FB-Gollum]

You want hard go to the Ninja Gaiden section.

Haha! I've been trying hard to not mention that game. It's a game that is hard through it's own merits. You want a game that takes skill? Go play R63: Raven Shield on PC. That's freaking hard. 1 hit kills, no nades on the fly. Everything slow patient and very intentional. One mis-step in that game = certain death. You don't respawn either, you sit and watch until it's over. Plus, wit the blooming reticle you had to read your opponent like there's no tomorrow. Go play SMAK or TRS or Ap in that game and you'll see what it is to get owned. Not saying that it isn't hard against StK etc. Just that there are a lot of games (particularly on PC) that take a lot more inherent skill than Halo.

That said, Halo in MP against really good players takes a lot of skill. There was never a question of that. I also think that outside of dual wielding, Halo 2 takes a lot of skill against really good players.

[Goku_69]

I agree that halo 2 takes alot of skill anyone who says it is to easy hasn't played against a high ranked player that accually plays and doesn't cheat. The co-op on lengendary is almost impossible.

[vman]

I'm locking this thread and temp banning the next hostile post, hostile retort or anything I can construe as a flame or a hostile act to another member.

Consider whatever was said in this thread to be in the past.
I can't say we all need to be adults here, because obviously not all of us are adults. So the best thing is that you guys can continue this thread in a mature manner or I'll start weeding you guys out of the problem.
hhahahahah, you said WEEDing!