So after playing Halo 2, I decided to play Halo PC again

[Reclaimer]

I love the Halo games, don't get me wrong. I was all over Halo 2 and I do still play it. But, I'm just getting so frusterated with the quiters and the cheaters and all that. I haven't played the the first Halo in awhile. I don't have anyone around here to play it with and I haven't touched Halo PC in awhile. But since I just did massive upgrades to my computer, I decided to get on Halo PC and take it for a whirl after getting massively cheated on and had several consecutive frusterating games in a row.

Well let me be not the first or last to tell you that I have finally noticed how everything changed from Halo to Halo 2. I can now personally attest that Halo 2 is not really the same game online as Halo is, it just uses similiar characters and graphics.

I jumped on Halo PC with every detail turned up and was just blown away. Well, first I was amazed that I was actually able to net 30 kills or better in a CTF game, yet Halo 1 is requires so much more skill. Seriously, sniping is really difficult to pull off well, grenades whip ass and that pistol freaking rocks.
Why has all this changed? Why does Frankie say that they made the Banshee unable to hover or have a fuel bomb because it's unfair? You still have to get there and not get killed, you still have to make the shots count, right? They made that rocket warthog with the purpose of being powerful, yet you still have to be good at aiming it.

Halo 2 now officially confuses me. I have now noticed that Halo 2 is just an equal opportunity game to kill. Especially with that sword. There's no balance whatsoever.

Yet after playing Halo PC, several things occured. First, nobody cheated, nobody stand-byed, people who dropped out didn't effect the game and was replaced by new players on the fly. It was actually really fun. Things took a bit of skill and finesse. I just don't see why all the things that were taken from Halo when Halo 2 was made because of an "unfair" advantage, yet sniping is alot easier in Halo 2, you don't get stuned when shot with plasma weapons, the shotguns are erratic, grenades were depowered and rockets now have lock on. They went from protecting from potiential unfair advantages to just unbalancing the games so that everyone could just pick it up and kill a plenty.
All these powerful things in Halo PC like the fuel rod gun, the flamethrower, the mile long grenade toss, the pistol field equalizer, the rocket hog and the better banshee didn't make the game unfair in my opinion. You still needed a great deal of skill to get it done. You could have rockets all you want, but what good is it when you get killed by the guy with a pistol 100 yards away? See what I mean? So what the vehicles don't explode, you still die in them, if not even quicker in the first game.

I'll still play Halo 2 because I like Headlong and I like using the Xbox controllers plus I like playing with you guys whenever that happens. However, Halo 1 or even Halo PC is still the better game in my opinion.
I would gladly would have done away with everything Halo 2 has if they just re-released Halo with Xbox Live, or found a way to port Halo PC to Live.

I don't know. It's all still fun and all that. I just decided to go back to Halo PC and suddenly all these little things just hit me.

[ScorpionX]

Damn Reclaimer, that is probably one of the best posts I've seen on this forum, ever. Awesome job :hail:

A few days ago I got 4 people I play with on Live to get a few XBC games going. Now we haven't played Halo since October, and even though all the time that had passed, we were playing Halo for about 3 hours. I really think that Halo was one of the greatest game of all time, but sadly I don't think Bungie realized that. I will still play Halo 2, mostly because of Live, but I don't even consider this a game in the Halo series. Bungie could have made the greatest game of all time, hell all they had to do was Halo + Live. I hope they get their act together for Halo 3 :mad:

[Reclaimer]

It took about 30 seconds into my first game on CTF Blood Gulch with a full 16 players that this game really brings you back to the basics of it all. One guy didn't own the map with one particular weapon. One guy didn't own the map with one particular vehicle. It was pure chaos.. yet poetry in motion when it game to combat. Grenades suddenly became the defacto tool of initial contact. Pistols became the primary engagement tool with a soft finish with the real assault rifle or a tremendous crack to the head with that famous melee. Nobody was falling out of the sky doing stupid things because it kills or seriously harms you. Tanks ran and tanks stopped because drivers got sniped or grenaded out.
Mayhem, yet pure grace when it came to technical combat skills. Quickly the programed feeling of "get two guns, charge, reload, repeat again" from Halo 2 left me as I was instantly safe from fools because I had a pistol.
Halo 2 gives you the ability to run in and kill, yet Halo makes you think.. I better make this good.
It was just a very enjoyable experience. And you know what? I didn't have to listen to any annoying voices, cursing, racial slurs or anything like that. Just a few text messages that read "F.U.!"

The maps.. OK, Halo 2 has some nice maps like Headlong and Zanzibar, even Lockout is fun. But Death Island, and Ice Fields are a blast. Well balanced and interesting to play on using the geography to your advantage. You might say that Waterworks is too big. You ain't seen big until you've seen Infinity. That's one big map. It took several minutes of straight out driving to bring in a flag capture.

Anyway, I don't know what happened to Halo 2. Well, I think I do know and it's been addressed. Halo 2 is a good combination of console shooter that utilizes Xbox Live. Yet, I think Bungie dug the grave for themselves while trying "make things better."
Because of optimatches, there is cheating. Because there is no way to select a game in progress, you have to deal with dropouts. Because of unfair advantage protections, you have to deal with unbalanced weaponry.

If you haven't played Halo PC, I recommend you try it. Yes, it's just like Halo CE, yes the campaign offers nothing different. However, you do get some different guns, a different vehicle, and a lot of really well made maps. Plus, the better your graphics card, the better it looks to you.

By the way, it did take me a second to readjust to the fact that Halo 2 gives you the super jumping ability. I kept getting ran over because my jumps were too late.

I also liked how Halo doesn't glorify your death. No more flying 1000 feet across the map when hit by a vehicle. Just get struck, you just go under the car.. dead and 5 seconds later you're back in the game.

[E Nomini Patri]

Halo PC was the ****. Plain and simple. My computer doesn't run it very well so I don't play it as religiously as I used to. I would play for 15 minutes before I had to go somewhere or try to get that last half hour in before bedtime. Halo 2 isn't like that though. :(

[FB-Gollum]

Whoa...you're comparing Halo 2 to Halo PC? Ok Reclaimer, I like you man, really, and you're a very smart guy, but I have to throw out a few question marks here.

First...Why are you comparing it to Halo PC? The PC port was piss poor with second rate textures and horrible netcode. As for it taking more skill, I can't even play Halo PC becuase it's SO DAMN EASY with a mouse. I'm sorry, 2 to the chest one to the head with a mouse is about the simplest thing in gaming history. Secondly, not using the controller kills the "friction" that made Halo CE feel so good when playing it. Anyhoo, I'm just saying compare apples to apples. Halo PC is a different creature, and imho, takes WAY LESS SKILL than Halo 2. Even if that's only due to the mouse/keyboard. Moreover, Halo PC suffers from far worse lag/latency issues than Halo 2. Sure there's no standby or dummy glitching, but hey there's Auto-Aim and WallHack and godmode and the million other nefarious pc-style style cheats that us Xboxers don't ever encounter. Play Halo PC a bit more, I think you just went in frustrated (and rightly so) from some bad experiences on live, and got a bit of fresh air, and it may have biased your reasoning.

Let's also remember that fixes are on the way. Standby's and dummy glitches are going away. Soon.

So then let's compare Halo 1 to Halo 2. Halo was balanced? Halo 1 was the most unbalanced game in history! The pistol owned all. The game became balanced in spite of itself. How you ask? What is this insanity I speak of? Simple, the community balanced the game. We all decided to make the pistol the default weapon on every map so that the only thing you had to worry about was picking up a good back up weapon for specific situations. By all choosing to use the pistol, we created balance by giving everyone the best weapon. Now consider Halo without the option to choose the default weapon. Consider if we all started with a plasma pistol that doesn't home, and there was only one or two pistols on the map. We'd all be crying bloody murder about how the pistol needs to go (like the rocket or the sword for H2) and the game is tantamount to "run get the pistol, cause even noobs can own with it".

Yeah, in H2, the rocket and sword can tilt the balance, but don't tell me that a good dual wield can't deal with that. We've all seen players that'll take you down in no time.
As for lag related shotgun issues; riiiiiiiiiight, because XBC was SO SMOOTH AND NEVER EVER CAUSED WEAPONS TO BE ERRATIC OR UNRELIABLE, AND NEVER EVER EVER GAVE THE HOST ANY KIND OF ADVANTAGE. ;)

I guess the bottom line is this: Halo was so incredibly good because it was a Multiplayer sandbox. We took a game the felt really good and created the games we wanted to play. Due to the overwhelming superiority of one weapon, pretty much the entire community chose it to be the default, thereby creating even greater unity. If H2 is failing, it is only failing in one way, it has forgotten it's own best selling point; Despite all it's customization options, outside of custom games online (which you can't search) matchmaking offers a set of restrictive gametypes, that don't offer the features we want. All they have to do to make this game, is make custom games searchable, so that you can drop in to the game YOU want to play, WHEN you want to play it. Believe me, the game would turn into Halo again so quickly our heads would
spin. A simple server list, with their ping relative to yours, and an option for the host to restrict the level of ping for people to join. Done. We'll all be playing MLG slayer in about 30 seconds, running clans from independent leagues and forgetting that we ever had a problem with this game.

[Reclaimer]

Whoa...you're comparing Halo 2 to Halo PC? Ok Reclaimer, I like you man, really, and you're a very smart guy, but I have to throw out a few question marks here.

First...Why are you comparing it to Halo PC? The PC port was piss poor with second rate textures and horrible netcode. As for it taking more skill, I can't even play Halo PC becuase it's SO DAMN EASY with a mouse. I'm sorry, 2 to the chest one to the head with a mouse is about the simplest thing in gaming history. Secondly, not using the controller kills the "friction" that made Halo CE feel so good when playing it. Anyhoo, I'm just saying compare apples to apples. Halo PC is a different creature, and imho, takes WAY LESS SKILL than Halo 2. Even if that's only due to the mouse/keyboard. Moreover, Halo PC suffers from far worse lag/latency issues than Halo 2. Sure there's no standby or dummy glitching, but hey there's Auto-Aim and WallHack and godmode and the million other nefarious pc-style style cheats that us Xboxers don't ever encounter. Play Halo PC a bit more, I think you just went in frustrated (and rightly so) from some bad experiences on live, and got a bit of fresh air, and it may have biased your reasoning.

Let's also remember that fixes are on the way. Standby's and dummy glitches are going away. Soon.

So then let's compare Halo 1 to Halo 2. Halo was balanced? Halo 1 was the most unbalanced game in history! The pistol owned all. The game became balanced in spite of itself. How you ask? What is this insanity I speak of? Simple, the community balanced the game. We all decided to make the pistol the default weapon on every map so that the only thing you had to worry about was picking up a good back up weapon for specific situations. By all choosing to use the pistol, we created balance by giving everyone the best weapon. Now consider Halo without the option to choose the default weapon. Consider if we all started with a plasma pistol that doesn't home, and there was only one or two pistols on the map. We'd all be crying bloody murder about how the pistol needs to go (like the rocket or the sword for H2) and the game is tantamount to "run get the pistol, cause even noobs can own with it".

Yeah, in H2, the rocket and sword can tilt the balance, but don't tell me that a good dual wield can't deal with that. We've all seen players that'll take you down in no time.
As for lag related shotgun issues; riiiiiiiiiight, because XBC was SO SMOOTH AND NEVER EVER CAUSED WEAPONS TO BE ERRATIC OR UNRELIABLE, AND NEVER EVER EVER GAVE THE HOST ANY KIND OF ADVANTAGE. ;)

I guess the bottom line is this: Halo was so incredibly good because it was a Multiplayer sandbox. We took a game the felt really good and created the games we wanted to play. Due to the overwhelming superiority of one weapon, pretty much the entire community chose it to be the default, thereby creating even greater unity. If H2 is failing, it is only failing in one way, it has forgotten it's own best selling point; Despite all it's customization options, outside of custom games online (which you can't search) matchmaking offers a set of restrictive gametypes, that don't offer the features we want. All they have to do to make this game, is make custom games searchable, so that you can drop in to the game YOU want to play, WHEN you want to play it. Believe me, the game would turn into Halo again so quickly our heads would
spin. A simple server list, with their ping relative to yours, and an option for the host to restrict the level of ping for people to join. Done. We'll all be playing MLG slayer in about 30 seconds, running clans from independent leagues and forgetting that we ever had a problem with this game.


You bring up a lot of good points and in a way, yes it is apple to oranges. Halo 2 is a very pretty game in regards to graphics, I'll give you that. Halo PC, even with a good video card doesn't present the same type of graphics, however it does give some little extra visual goodness here and there if you can support it. Halo 2 is optimized for the Xbox and Halo PC is just essentially adding little extras here and there as much as you can support with your chipset.

You can say it's really easy to play with a mouse and keyboard, well it's true to an extent. I'm actually wishing to use my Xbox controller on that game because I hate driving with a mouse. But I think the joystick has it beat for upclose work things of that nature. I really can't stand playing with a keyboard to be honest, even if I remap the controls, I can't stand having to spread my fingers out looking for the melee button and what not in hurry. It's nice to have everything laid on a joystick. Like crouch. Forget that. I use it alot in Halo 2, I don't use it all on Halo PC because that's an extra key to hold down as I'm twisting fingers to walk and turn, fire and reload, then throw a grenade.

Well, there's lag in Halo PC, but there's lag in XBC and lag on XBL, so take your pick, you know? I was playing some relatively smooth games on Halo PC, and on Halo 2, yet I've seen lag just destroy the experience for both. But you know what? If the game sucks on Halo PC, I can just leave it and go to another with a better latency and it won't affect the game I was in because people are constantly streaming into the games. So I'm not screwing anyone really.

In regards to the cheating, I used to play Halo PC all the time when it came out, and I started really playing it again now and I haven't encountered it. Maybe I'm lucky or maybe I'm not noticing if someone is wall hacking. I still love playing CTF, so if someone goes godmode, at least the game ends when the points are made and it all doesn't really hinge on that one guy who's cheating. Yes, Bungie says they'll fix alot of the cheats we see on Halo 2 and that will be good. I never said I'll quit playing the game. But you know what? I think they'll just find a new way to cheat in the game. It'll never stop, you know? Maybe unless they abolish leaderboards and give no incentive to be the best at something and award you with having your name emblazoned somewhere. That would stop alot of cheating too. You just play because you like it. Like why so many people still play Halo PC now.

I really do think Halo is more balanced even with the pistol being as good as it is. I honestly do think that the pistol is insurance more than anything. Put you know what I was seeing? People using grenades.. I mean skilled precision application of grenades to kill off pistol users. So, there's one defining weapon in Halo, however the game just makes you go a different route to stop it. Yes, there's 99 ways to kill someone with a sword, but you don't always get that chance and that guy will do alot of damage before the one guy who knows what to do can do something. But the key thing is momemtum in Halo 2 and weapon control. Someone who picks up the right weapon will own the game and we've all seen that. But at least in Halo and Halo PC, everyone has that pistol to put an end to someone who starts getting out of control. Everyone has a fair chance to protect themselves, even from snipers.

I do agree with you whole heartedly about making custom games as searchable games. That would simply be awesome for the community and really be enjoyable.

I'll keep playing Halo 2 because it is fun from time to times.. when it doesn't feel like a chore. But Halo PC is a good break from the monotonous crap that Halo 2 can become.

[blonks]

meh... i played the first halo a while back again... i can now say i do love halo 2 lots more... something about it feels more addicting and its more balanced...

see.. the sword is almost pointless... cause if your good at defending against it... you can take the sword guy out without anybody dying... its all a matter a opinion... ill stick to halo 2

[LTM360]

Alright, I saw Halo for PC for $14.99. I've been contemplating getting it for a while. For $15, I think I'm gonna get it just to try. I loved the demo actually, and I don't see what it could hurt. If I get it, I'll let you know Rec; We'll play it some.

[TOTTEN]

its more balanced...

Sure is :rolleyes: :confused: SMG starting weapon and spawn campers with snipers on burial mounds might change your mind.

[FB-Gollum]

It's nice to have everything laid on a joystick. Like crouch. Forget that. I use it alot in Halo 2, I don't use it all on Halo PC because that's an extra key to hold down as I'm twisting fingers to walk and turn, fire and reload, then throw a grenade.

Maybe this is because I've traditionally been more of a PC gamer than a Console gamer, but any game that doesn't have a blooming reticle and is as slow as Halo is just too easy as far as shooting is concerned. I'm used to using the keyboard for FPS's.


I really do think Halo is more balanced even with the pistol being as good as it is. I honestly do think that the pistol is insurance more than anything. Put you know what I was seeing?

It's balanced because we made it balanced. Let's remember the Pistol is NOT the default starting weapon on most maps. We made it that way because we had the power to do so. Like I said, if we couldn't, we'd all be *****ing about it. If everyone else was started with plasma, or the AR, the pistol would destroy most people.


People using grenades.. I mean skilled precision application of grenades to kill off pistol users. So, there's one defining weapon in Halo, however the game just makes you go a different route to stop it. Yes, there's 99 ways to kill someone with a sword, but you don't always get that chance and that guy will do alot of damage before the one guy who knows what to do can do something.

Agreed. Grenades were a lot more useful in Halo CE. I was a grenade whore of the first order.


But the key thing is momemtum in Halo 2 and weapon control. Someone who picks up the right weapon will own the game and we've all seen that.

Exactly. If we could control the game ourselves rather than being subjected to matchmade games we'd all be happy as we could make the BR the default with an SMG backup.

But at least in Halo and Halo PC, everyone has that pistol to put an end to someone who starts getting out of control. Everyone has a fair chance to protect themselves, even from snipers.

Once again though, that's only because we don't have control.

I do agree with you whole heartedly about making custom games as searchable games. That would simply be awesome for the community and really be enjoyable.

= The Solution. Let's start a petition on Bungie.Net to make server lists.

I'll keep playing Halo 2 because it is fun from time to times.. when it doesn't feel like a chore. But Halo PC is a good break from the monotonous crap that Halo 2 can become.

When we have control the monotony will break. However, I believe Bungie will eventually give us that control. Rememebr how Halo came along? We all started with little system link games and slowly defveloped the game how we wanted to play it. After we've played it in the defalut mode enough, they'll open it up and hand us the reigns. I'm sure of that. That's when the real fun will start.

[l Maximus l]

I agree. As time goes on, I'm finding that complete n00bs can play Halo 2 like pros. Remember how satisfying it was when you got a head shot in Halo 1? Damn, I must get a half dozen head shots without even trying on Halo 2. I mean, hell, I often found myself using the sniper on Halo 1 only to shoot a second time to insure that I got the kill and was STOKED when I popped a dude's head with the first shot halfway across Blood Gulch. But, in Halo 2, I can jump in the air while turning my body and pop someone in the head 1/4 of the map of Coagulation and not even fire off the second "insurance" shot because I know I got a headshot.

To me, Halo 2 is a dumbed down version of Halo 1. I don't care what anyone says here: Grenades DO NOT flip Warthogs that are at full speed coming at you...and even if they get a little bunny hop from it, it doesn't flip like Halo 1. Remember playing CTF at Blood Gulch only to drive the Warthog (the only vehicle on the map, I must add - Ghosts suck and always will and Banshees are even lamer) and trying to avoid opponents in the field because you risk being flipped by a well placed grenade? Halo 2 completely LOSES sight of this crucial tactic.

Also, what the hell happened to the good old fall damage? It bugs the living hell out of me when I'm playing Halo 2 on Beaver Creek, for example, and walking under the arch (where the Rocket Launcher sits on) only to have a guy jump 5 stories down with a blazing single SMG only to smoke my ass on his way down without any sort of penalty for what would be a risky move in Halo 1 with fall damage.

What happened to the physics of Halo 1? Damn, eventhough the Battle Rifle isn't a bad weapon, I can't tell you guys how many times I have blasted someone across the entire map of Foundation (from turret to turret, for example) and shot someone 10 times and not even put a freakin' bruise on the opposing slut. :cuss:

And respawning with a freakin' SMG is lame as hell. Atleast a person isn't crippled with a Battle Rifle. Eventhough I've played the MLG gametypes only a few times on XBL, it has been the most enjoyable experience while playing Halo 2. No Gaydar, no lame ass starting weapon, no one uses the n00by Covenant Sword (or you get called a n00b and will get laughed out of the game).

Is there any hope for Halo 2 even without the pistol? Sure, if they took off the lame ass timers, let grenades actually flip vehicles if they are well placed, added back fall damage, made headshots a challenge again, started with Battle Rifles and made them a little more powerful (so you have a chance against someone using a plasma pistol BR combo), took off gaydar, and allowed clans to play eachother in custom gametypes, I truly believe that Halo 2 would be a hell of a lot more fun.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

The pistol was not unbalanced... if anything it was the equalizer. You were given a weapon that required skill and was sufficient to handle any situation.

Gameplay > Graphics

Even with BR start, it'd only be significantly better on mid-sized and small maps. Big maps would still be a pain because of the lessened range.

Almost everything done in Halo was satisfying. Everything was heart-racing since you knew you could be hit from anywhere and could die any second. There's not as much satisfaction in Halo 2.

[MikeMan91389]

So then let's compare Halo 1 to Halo 2. Halo was balanced? Halo 1 was the most unbalanced game in history! The pistol owned all. The game became balanced in spite of itself. How you ask? What is this insanity I speak of? Simple, the community balanced the game. We all decided to make the pistol the default weapon on every map so that the only thing you had to worry about was picking up a good back up weapon for specific situations. By all choosing to use the pistol, we created balance by giving everyone the best weapon. Now consider Halo without the option to choose the default weapon. Consider if we all started with a plasma pistol that doesn't home, and there was only one or two pistols on the map. We'd all be crying bloody murder about how the pistol needs to go (like the rocket or the sword for H2) and the game is tantamount to "run get the pistol, cause even noobs can own with it".

Yeah, in H2, the rocket and sword can tilt the balance, but don't tell me that a good dual wield can't deal with that. We've all seen players that'll take you down in no time.
As for lag related shotgun issues; riiiiiiiiiight, because XBC was SO SMOOTH AND NEVER EVER CAUSED WEAPONS TO BE ERRATIC OR UNRELIABLE, AND NEVER EVER EVER GAVE THE HOST ANY KIND OF ADVANTAGE. ;)

I guess the bottom line is this: Halo was so incredibly good because it was a Multiplayer sandbox. We took a game the felt really good and created the games we wanted to play. Due to the overwhelming superiority of one weapon, pretty much the entire community chose it to be the default, thereby creating even greater unity. If H2 is failing, it is only failing in one way, it has forgotten it's own best selling point; Despite all it's customization options, outside of custom games online (which you can't search) matchmaking offers a set of restrictive gametypes, that don't offer the features we want. All they have to do to make this game, is make custom games searchable, so that you can drop in to the game YOU want to play, WHEN you want to play it. Believe me, the game would turn into Halo again so quickly our heads would
spin. A simple server list, with their ping relative to yours, and an option for the host to restrict the level of ping for people to join. Done. We'll all be playing MLG slayer in about 30 seconds, running clans from independent leagues and forgetting that we ever had a problem with this game.

Halo was not unbalanced. The community didnt make the pistol the starting weapon, that was GENERIC. the only thing that made it unbalanced was skill and strategy.... the things that should give you the upper hand. other than the occasional rocket/snipe that BOTH TEAMS KNEW WHEN THEYD SPAWN.

Halo > Halo2 - w/o a doubt. and halo was more balanced.

[Kmart6]

I don't understand this fascination with the BR. I hate the friggin' thing. I think I've killed 2 people with it since Nov 9th.
I would rather face someone with my SMG.

[ScorpionX]

I agree. As time goes on, I'm finding that complete n00bs can play Halo 2 like pros. Remember how satisfying it was when you got a head shot in Halo 1? Damn, I must get a half dozen head shots without even trying on Halo 2. I mean, hell, I often found myself using the sniper on Halo 1 only to shoot a second time to insure that I got the kill and was STOKED when I popped a dude's head with the first shot halfway across Blood Gulch. But, in Halo 2, I can jump in the air while turning my body and pop someone in the head 1/4 of the map of Coagulation and not even fire off the second "insurance" shot because I know I got a headshot.

To me, Halo 2 is a dumbed down version of Halo 1. I don't care what anyone says here: Grenades DO NOT flip Warthogs that are at full speed coming at you...and even if they get a little bunny hop from it, it doesn't flip like Halo 1. Remember playing CTF at Blood Gulch only to drive the Warthog (the only vehicle on the map, I must add - Ghosts suck and always will and Banshees are even lamer) and trying to avoid opponents in the field because you risk being flipped by a well placed grenade? Halo 2 completely LOSES sight of this crucial tactic.

Exactly. Halo was such a great game because it was both skillful and fun at the same time. There was nothing better than TSK'ing people over and over again, because it was so hard. I don't get that feeling running around with the sword in Lockout or Ivory Tower. Bungie said this game would be an evolution in the Halo series, but all they did was try and "balance" the game - and they failed miserably. Bottom line is Halo:

1) Takes more skill than Halo 2
2) Is more fun than Halo 2
3) Deserves to be on Live

Is there any hope for Halo 2 even without the pistol? Sure, if they took off the lame ass timers, let grenades actually flip vehicles if they are well placed, added back fall damage, made headshots a challenge again, started with Battle Rifles and made them a little more powerful (so you have a chance against someone using a plasma pistol BR combo), took off gaydar, and allowed clans to play eachother in custom gametypes, I truly believe that Halo 2 would be a hell of a lot more fun.

That sounds nice, but Bungie will never realistically do any of those things. I don't even think they know just how many people dislike the damn game. But here is my list of things Bungie could do to "lessen the badness" of Halo 2:

1) Get rid of SMG start
2) Get rid of matchmaking, go to a server list like XBC
3) Increase the BR range
4) Make the BR a 3-burst kill
5) Make weapons on continous spawn like Halo
6) Make vehicles less effective somehow. Banshees are ****ing gay and should never have even been in the game as they are now
7) Ban anyone under 14

[FB-Gollum]

That sounds nice, but Bungie will never realistically do any of those things. I don't even think they know just how many people dislike the damn game. But here is my list of things Bungie could do to "lessen the badness" of Halo 2:

1) Get rid of SMG start
2) Get rid of matchmaking, go to a server list like XBC
3) Increase the BR range
4) Make the BR a 3-burst kill
5) Make weapons on continous spawn like Halo
6) Make vehicles less effective somehow. Banshees are ****ing gay and should never have even been in the game as they are now
7) Ban anyone under 14

OMFG. This Halo 1 love in is going to make me scream.
Read my post, read my analysis. I have a simple solution that Bungie can do.

[Soundscape]

= The Solution. Let's start a petition on Bungie.Net to make server lists.
that would be nice, but bungie has already said(on their forums) that would never happen.



I don't understand this fascination with the BR. I hate the friggin' thing. I think I've killed 2 people with it since Nov 9th.
I would rather face someone with my SMG.
wow. :rofl: alright you just stick to your killer smg's then ;)

[xbox genius]

That sounds nice, but Bungie will never realistically do any of those things. I don't even think they know just how many people dislike the damn game. But here is my list of things Bungie could do to "lessen the badness" of Halo 2:

1) Get rid of SMG start
2) Get rid of matchmaking, go to a server list like XBC
3) Increase the BR range
4) Make the BR a 3-burst kill
5) Make weapons on continous spawn like Halo
6) Make vehicles less effective somehow. Banshees are ****ing gay and should never have even been in the game as they are now
7) Ban anyone under 14

i agree with all your reasons except #'s 4 and 6, i like the banshees in the game and i dont know about having a BR become a 3 burst kill weapon... it might be too powerful

[Soundscape]

banshees are a living hell if your team does not have the rocket launcher. and even then, if a guy knows what he's doing it's no prob to dodge those locked rockets.

[ScorpionX]

i agree with all your reasons except #'s 4 and 6, i like the banshees in the game and i dont know about having a BR become a 3 burst kill weapon... it might be too powerful

3 & 4 on my list is either/or, as long as they do something to bring mid-range weapons back in the game.

OMFG. This Halo 1 love in is going to make me scream.
Read my post, read my analysis. I have a simple solution that Bungie can do.

A solution that nobody agrees with, unless making a server list would:

"if they took off the lame ass timers, let grenades actually flip vehicles if they are well placed, added back fall damage, made headshots a challenge again, started with Battle Rifles and made them a little more powerful (so you have a chance against someone using a plasma pistol BR combo), took off gaydar, and allowed clans to play eachother in custom gametypes"

And something tells me that is not going to happen :rolleyes:

[blonks]

maybe you guys didnt play halo 1 online... and realized that everybody used the pistol and it was basically who fired first that killed... i like halo 2 better... dont get me wrong... i love halo 1... but that game could be played way to cheap... see people say OMG SWORD CHEATING!!! its not a big deal... i dont even use the sword cause there are certain ways you can make it so the sword doesnt lock on

i didnt expect this game to be THEE best game ever... but i expected a lot from it.. and it got a 10/10 for what i expected... and that was high, there is no such thing as a perfect game

[l Maximus l]

I played a series of MLG Custom games today and had a freakin' blast. The entire time, I saw one dude use an SMG and he got smoked.

It's still not Halo 1, but, I think MLG Customs is the closest damn thing to it...a pretty damn satisfying...except for easy ass sniper headshots.

I had an "In the Zone" while playing Colossus with Snipers only...and I think I had to shoot twice to kill someone about 3 times...all others were headshots...and I can honestly say that I only deserved a few of them.

It's a shame, but, a lot more fun compared to matchmaking.

[l Maximus l]

maybe you guys didnt play halo 1 online... and realized that everybody used the pistol and it was basically who fired first that killed... i like halo 2 better... dont get me wrong... i love halo 1... but that game could be played way to cheap... see people say OMG SWORD CHEATING!!! its not a big deal... i dont even use the sword cause there are certain ways you can make it so the sword doesnt lock on

i didnt expect this game to be THEE best game ever... but i expected a lot from it.. and it got a 10/10 for what i expected... and that was high, there is no such thing as a perfect game

No one is saying that Halo 2 is the perfect game...hell, even Halo 1 isn't perfect. I'm just saying that Halo 1 takes more skill. Sure, everyone had the ultimate weapon at starting (the Pistol), but, not everyone could use it like a pro. There is always someone better but playing with it was addicting as crack just so you can get even better. It doesn't take a pro to spray 200 bullets point blank with an SMG.

And seriously, the sword is a n00b weapon. Sure, there are people that are more skilled with it than others; however, it doesn't take a pro to make the crosshairs turn red and pull the trigger once. The Sword has n00b written all over it.

[blonks]

No one is saying that Halo 2 is the perfect game...hell, even Halo 1 isn't perfect. I'm just saying that Halo 1 takes more skill. Sure, everyone had the ultimate weapon at starting (the Pistol), but, not everyone could use it like a pro. There is always someone better but playing with it was addicting as crack just so you can get even better. It doesn't take a pro to spray 200 bullets point blank with an SMG.

And seriously, the sword is a n00b weapon. Sure, there are people that are more skilled with it than others; however, it doesn't take a pro to make the crosshairs turn red and pull the trigger once. The Sword has n00b written all over it.


meh... im sure the sword will have its power's lessened... or it will be taken away and only put it as an option... just like the 50 cal in rainbow six... which is good.. you could still have it... but must i say... that WAS and still IS the most n00b weapon of all time...

but i guess i do agree with you guys... halo 1 did take more skill... but i think i perfer the maps of halo 2 better and other stuff... cause i couldnt stand sidewinder and a few others.. but i love all of the halo 2 ones

[Reclaimer]

The thing about the banshees that I noticed in Halo PC was that I really like the way they were brought into the game. No afterburners, no jinx evasions, the ability to creep backwards that allowed for stationary hover and the fuel bomb, yet the primary rate of fire was a lot slower and it took awhile to warm up another round for the fuel bomb.
Now, I really don't know why that version of the banshee is unfair. Or how it gives an unfair advantage. Examine the Wraith for instance. It's in the game and it can deliver a massive plasma burst and repeat the fire alot quicker than what the old banshee could do. Take into effect that the old banshee had no real means of escape other than just flying away. You are fodder for everything on the field. Even without locking rockets in the game, anyone who can deliver a steady stream of fire, or can stick a banshee with a plasma grenade with the mile long tosses, can kill the driver.

So what did they do? They bring back the banshee, take out what made it balanced on field, and gave it the ability to dodge quickly, escape quickly and gave it a faster ROF.
Yes, rockets can control banshees, but ground fire is pretty hard pressed to eliminate the banshees. You can hijack them.. yes, but a good pilot stays away from the ground.
I say, bring back the old banshee. Yes, it has that fuel gun and it can sort of hover, but, turrets and any gun that can produce streams of fire can kill the driver quickly.

But, I'd still take out the banshee on ascension and leave that for ground combat.

I may not be so opposed to the sword if it depleted in 3 swings and it became useless.

[Whisper]

but i think i perfer the maps of halo 2 better and other stuff... cause i couldnt stand sidewinder and a few others.. but i love all of the halo 2 ones


i agree there... all i liked in the original were Coagulation (err Blood Gulch) and Hang em High

[GTA3 Dude]

After finally being able to play against good people in Halo 2 (certainly not pros though), it just makes me mad that I was never able to experience Halo: Combat Evolved the way others did. I only played against bad players which meant I was never improving (having a blast, but never getting better).

Sure MLG settings are fun, but they could be so much better if the auto-aim was toned down and the weapons spawned on a timer.

[Regosnot]

I would have liked Halo PC except my computer sucks so the only time I every got to play it was when a went to a computer arcade. Halo is alot more balnced weaponwise and I don't like how Bungie decided what features we couldn't have in multiplayer. Like the Fuel Rod and Bashee features. I just like Halo 2 better since I can play it on Live.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

I liked all the Halo maps, just some more than others. The reason being that there wasn't that much camping in Halo.

[MikeMan91389]

maybe you guys didnt play halo 1 online... and realized that everybody used the pistol and it was basically who fired first that killed... i like halo 2 better... dont get me wrong... i love halo 1... but that game could be played way to cheap... see people say OMG SWORD CHEATING!!! its not a big deal... i dont even use the sword cause there are certain ways you can make it so the sword doesnt lock on

i didnt expect this game to be THEE best game ever... but i expected a lot from it.. and it got a 10/10 for what i expected... and that was high, there is no such thing as a perfect game

thats not true....

if you were good, you had a chance to kill them with a 3-5 shot kill, unless they 3-5 shot killed you. smg is whoever shoots first.

[E Nomini Patri]

SMG fights are all about who is best at burst fire and keeping distance while planting grenade traps. But SMG fights are still worthless in the end...

[l Maximus l]

I really liked close combat in Halo 1 because if you ever found yourself in a 2 foot away situation with an opponent, you could easily switch from your pistol to the Assault Rifle and actually kill them with a few shots and a melee.

The melee in Halo 2 is garbage unless you hit your opponent in the back.

[Reclaimer]

The melee in Halo 2 is garbage unless you hit your opponent in the back.

And even then it's not a guranteed kill unless you managed to get the blow in that few pixel wide area that differentiates between "back" and "head."

I was so trained in Halo to come in firing and at the end of the run, deliver a smack and he's dead. I'm getting sick of in Halo 2 dumping whole clips into people and weak wrist slapping someone with the gun and still get killed by my still alive victim.

The melee system plus the big ass jump in Halo 2 really messes me up when switching back in forth between the two games.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

You guys are wierd. I personally find Halo 2 more of challenge than the first one. It was all to easy to go into a online server on Halo PC grab the sniper rifle and pistol and usually come out atleast 20 - 1 if not better. People were just never a challenge to me in that game. I got banned from many servers and accused of cheating. Same goes for Halo on xbox. In our lan parties people would just quit outta the blue. On halo 2 there are enough cheap tactics and different strats to employ to screw over a skilled player, even if your a newb. Keeps you on your toes more. Outta that expirence I'm twice as skilled as I am now, cause I know how to look out for such people. In conclusion Halo 1 will always be kick ass, but Halo 2 brings out the best in a skilled player. More challenge.

[l Maximus l]

You guys are wierd. I personally find Halo 2 more of challenge than the first one. It was all to easy to go into a online server on Halo PC grab the sniper rifle and pistol and usually come out atleast 20 - 1 if not better. People were just never a challenge to me in that game. I got banned from many servers and accused of cheating. Same goes for Halo on xbox. In our lan parties people would just quit outta the blue. On halo 2 there are enough cheap tactics and different strats to employ to screw over a skilled player, even if your a newb. Keeps you on your toes more. Outta that expirence I'm twice as skilled as I am now, cause I know how to look out for such people. In conclusion Halo 1 will always be kick ass, but Halo 2 brings out the best in a skilled player. More challenge.

Geez, where do I start?

I guess that Halo 2 can be argued to be more of a challenge than Halo 1 if you base your experience against playing against n00bs with Halo 1 because in Halo 2, even n00bs can play like pros. A pro versus a n00b in Halo 1 would be nothing but a slaughterfest.

You had people quit out of a LAN game on XBox while playing Halo 1? You're definately playing against n00bs. I've quit out of XBC games on Halo 1 because lag was extra terrible, but, never in a LAN game.

As for your concluding statement, I agree that Halo 1 will always kick ass, but, I completely disagree that Halo 2 brings out the best in a skilled player. You've got to be seriously kidding me. Try and argue these points:

1. How does playing Halo 2 bring out more skill in a player when a n00by player is driving a Warthog or Ghost right at you and a skilled player plants a well-placed grenade in the path and it explodes only to see a tiny peice of shrapnel come off of it? In Halo 1, the vehicle flipped over and you could finish the n00b off.

2. How is it that a n00b can get a head shot with a sniper rifle but only hit the body of the opponent? In Halo 1, if you hit the body, a second shot is required to take them out. Not only that, but, in Halo 1, a headshot carried bragging rights...in Halo 2, if I have a sniper, I'm shocked if I don't get atleast 6 headshots with it.

3. How is it that in Halo 2, a person can jump 5 stories down with a flaming SMG and take an unweary opponent out in a matter of a few seconds without any penalty of fall damage? In Halo 1, such a tactic would be considered risky because if you fall 5 stories, you may either die from the fall or have your shield and health depleted down to a single bar and if the unweary opponent being fired at even farted on you, you'd be dead.

4. How does it bring out more skill in a person playing Halo 2 who uses a n00by ass sword only to make the friggin' crosshairs turn red and get an instant kill if the trigger is pulled? In Halo 1, there is no existence in a covenant sword in multi-player.

I could go on and on and on and on...Halo 2 truly is for n00by Halo players that actually can get some kills. Halo 1 take far more skill. Personally, I am 10 times better at Halo 1 than I am at Halo 2 because n00bs have the abillity to be good at Halo 2 which truly screws up the game. The more I play Halo 2, the more I realize this.

Take Scorpion from this website for example. He's ranked a 26, I believe, on Team Slayer and arguably the best Halo 2 player from XBA. I used to play against him with Halo 1 and him and I were pretty evenly skilled at Halo 1; however, admittingly, he may have been just a tad better than me. Somehow Halo 2 clicks with him better...and I find that extremely skilled Halo 1 players that play Halo 2 either get it or just can't quite get it. I'm one of the guys that just can't quite get Halo 2 because it's so freakin' different of a game than Halo 1 that it's like comparing Apples with Oranges...where I hoped I would be comparing Apples to Apples.

[ScorpionX]

Take Scorpion from this website for example. He's ranked a 26, I believe, on Team Slayer and arguably the best Halo 2 player from XBA. I used to play against him with Halo 1 and him and I were pretty evenly skilled at Halo 1; however, admittingly, he may have been just a tad better than me. Somehow Halo 2 clicks with him better...and I find that extremely skilled Halo 1 players that play Halo 2 either get it or just can't quite get it. I'm one of the guys that just can't quite get Halo 2 because it's so freakin' different of a game than Halo 1 that it's like comparing Apples with Oranges...where I hoped I would be comparing Apples to Apples.

I think that most Halo players picked the game up on November 9th and right away it didn't click with them. Halo used to have an ENORMOUS community in my area, but I have yet to see a Halo 2 tourny/LAN so obviously something is wrong with it. And yeah, I used to be ranked in the top 15 in TS but that isn't saying much because a) SMG start b) Very few good players on H2 play matchmaking c) Many of the Halo elites from XBC have already given up on the game. I was damn good at Halo, and I'm happy to say that, but Halo 2 is a whole different story

[l Maximus l]

I think that most Halo players picked the game up on November 9th and right away it didn't click with them. Halo used to have an ENORMOUS community in my area, but I have yet to see a Halo 2 tourny/LAN so obviously something is wrong with it. And yeah, I used to be ranked in the top 15 in TS but that isn't saying much because a) SMG start b) Very few good players on H2 play matchmaking c) Many of the Halo elites from XBC have already given up on the game. I was damn good at Halo, and I'm happy to say that, but Halo 2 is a whole different story

No kidding! Halo 1 somehow made me drive miles to go to tournaments and even pay money to play it against other people with the winners to take the pot. I happily paid even if I was playing split screen on a 27" Sony Wega when at home, I could play for free on my 50" Widescreen HDTV.

If a Halo 2 tournament ever came up, there's no way in H. E. Double Hockey Sticks I would pay a freakin' dime to play. In Halo 2, it's almost any man's game.

That's why all of us often see a level 14 player, for example, kick the living hell out of a level 21. Even if they are on the same team in Team Slayer, often times a lower ranked team member gets more kills in the end.

This is EXTREMELY unlikely with Halo 1 where a more skilled person consistently gets more kills...and the only way to catch up is to gain more skill.

And, the saddest thing of all? Bungie.net actually posted an article about Stuffo's Halo 3 wishlist...the fact that they did this and actually took the guy's suggestions at heart to the level of posting a link to his website actually frightens me.

I may soon scrap Halo 2 and play Halo 1 on XBC again. I haven't yet because my teeth aren't quite grounded down to the gums yet playing Halo 2. :bang:

[Madhattr]

I am going to have to say Halo 1 is by far easier. Anyone can pick up a pistol and after a night of playing be damn accurate. I am not saying it was less fun just less challenging. The pistol was the biggest "n00b" weapon if ever one was invented. Cmon the sword doesnt even compare to the pistol, you could snipe from half way across blood gulch with the damn thing.
With Halo 2 you have variations and duel weilding, a less skilled person can come at you with anything and you wont know until you have a visual, in Halo 1 it is either you have the pistol, sniper maybe rocket or you are dead.
I have to admit the shot gun on Halo 2 is the ****s. I was pretty damn good with a shotgun in Halo 1 but I cant get a shotty kill to save my ass in 2.
The sniping is easier on Halo 2 that is true and the melee is so damn weak it is just about useless but whatever changing things spices it up.

[ScorpionX]

I am going to have to say Halo 1 is by far easier. Anyone can pick up a pistol and after a night of playing be damn accurate. I am not saying it was less fun just less challenging. The pistol was the biggest "n00b" weapon if ever one was invented. Cmon the sword doesnt even compare to the pistol, you could snipe from half way across blood gulch with the damn thing.


This is quite possibly the stupidest I've ever seen on this site, and I've been here for 3 years. I am truely dumbfounded, please tell me you are being sarcastic.

[TOTTEN]

I am going to have to say Halo 1 is by far easier. Anyone can pick up a pistol and after a night of playing be damn accurate. I am not saying it was less fun just less challenging. The pistol was the biggest "n00b" weapon if ever one was invented. Cmon the sword doesnt even compare to the pistol, you could snipe from half way across blood gulch with the damn thing.
With Halo 2 you have variations and duel weilding, a less skilled person can come at you with anything and you wont know until you have a visual, in Halo 1 it is either you have the pistol, sniper maybe rocket or you are dead.
I have to admit the shot gun on Halo 2 is the ****s. I was pretty damn good with a shotgun in Halo 1 but I cant get a shotty kill to save my ass in 2.
The sniping is easier on Halo 2 that is true and the melee is so damn weak it is just about useless but whatever changing things spices it up.
But it takes alot of skill to use the pistol. The sword is terrible it doesnt take much skill to use at all. Sure the pistol is powerful but not overpowering. Your only a 13 so you probly havent played enough to realize how halo2 has been n00bed out.

[l Maximus l]

I am going to have to say Halo 1 is by far easier. Anyone can pick up a pistol and after a night of playing be damn accurate. I am not saying it was less fun just less challenging. The pistol was the biggest "n00b" weapon if ever one was invented. Cmon the sword doesnt even compare to the pistol, you could snipe from half way across blood gulch with the damn thing.
With Halo 2 you have variations and duel weilding, a less skilled person can come at you with anything and you wont know until you have a visual, in Halo 1 it is either you have the pistol, sniper maybe rocket or you are dead.
I have to admit the shot gun on Halo 2 is the ****s. I was pretty damn good with a shotgun in Halo 1 but I cant get a shotty kill to save my ass in 2.
The sniping is easier on Halo 2 that is true and the melee is so damn weak it is just about useless but whatever changing things spices it up.

The Pistol is a n00b's weapon? Are you kidding me?

Here's an easy Halo 101 question for you:

- Who is likely to win in this situation: A skilled Halo 1 player shooting the pistol at his n00b opponent who is also shooting back with his pistol. Who would win?

And, just for kicks: Who is likely to win in this situation: A skilled Halo 2 player shooting an SMG at his n00b opponent who is also shooting back with his SMG. Who would win?

Answers below:



















1. The skilled Halo 1 player would win.
2. It's a toss up.


My point is simple. In Halo 1, you actually have to aim for the small Master Chief head and go for the headshot. The skilled Halo 1 player will do exactly that...even risking a miss. In Halo 2, it's all about keeping your cross hairs red, pulling the trigger, and pray you're not the one that's going to fall. But, even if you do survive that, there's usually another opponent that come by, let's out a fart, and you're dead.

[Madhattr]

This is quite possibly the stupidest I've ever seen on this site, and I've been here for 3 years. I am truely dumbfounded, please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Oh I forgot extremely accurate pistols with a high rate of fire and deady at three shots (not to mention that reguardless of where the first two hit as long as the third is in the head its over) is a very difficult weapon to master. Now that is sarcasm.

What had me laughing is the rifle in halo 1, what a pathetic weapon at closed range it was weaker than the pistol! How can you sit there and tell me that Halo 2 is easier? It takes how many bursts from the Battle rifle to take someone out?

Really the sword is the only thing you have and put the sword in a match against the pistol and I will guarantee you the sword would be toast. The only weapon that compares to the PIstol in 1 is the Plasma pistol/Battle rifle combo and getting that combo to work is much trickier than pulling a trigger three times.

Edit: Thank you for proving my point.

"- Who is likely to win in this situation: A skilled Halo 1 player shooting the pistol at his n00b opponent who is also shooting back with his pistol. Who would win?

And, just for kicks: Who is likely to win in this situation: A skilled Halo 2 player shooting an SMG at his n00b opponent who is also shooting back with his SMG. Who would win?"

You basically stated that if you have any skill in Halo 1 you can far outclass anyone else thus making yourself invincible. But in Halo 2 anyone can begin duel weilding and become an instant threat thus making the game more difficult.
Just because the gun battles seem messy and chaotic there is still tactics and choices that will separate the good from the bad. Standing on top of a tower and sniping people with a handgun for 20mins while 100ft away is easy.

[ScorpionX]

I'm going to see a neuologist, my IQ has plummetted after reading your posts Madhattr, good god

And if you think that the BR is a more skillful weapon than the pistol, then you are bad. Real bad.

[l Maximus l]

You basically stated that if you have any skill in Halo 1 you can far outclass anyone else thus making yourself invincible. But in Halo 2 anyone can begin duel weilding and become an instant threat thus making the game more difficult.
Just because the gun battles seem messy and chaotic there is still tactics and choices that will separate the good from the bad. Standing on top of a tower and sniping people with a handgun for 20mins while 100ft away is easy.

Well, basically, yes...but, not invincible. A skilled Halo 1 player can outclass a n00b Halo 1 player.

The choices for duel wielding is lame, too, in Halo 2. Here's the deal: If a skilled Halo 2 gamer happens to duel wield two SMGs and turns a corner where a n00b is who has an SMG and duel wielding a plasma rifle, the n00b wins.

Here's the thing: In Halo 2, you'll win based on what weapons you have. In Halo 1, it was a clean slate in which every player had the best overall weapon: the pistol.

Often times, I don't duel wield SMGs and will just risk being caught with one because two SMGs are worthless compared to duel wielding anything else. And, there are plenty of SMGs to go around in Halo 2.

Shooting someone 100 feet away with a pistol and killing someone takes far more skill than you give credit, referring to Halo 1. Especially considering that the opponent 100 feet away also has a pistol.

Take Halo 2 using that same example: One person 100 feet away is likely to have a Sniper and the other guy respawns 100 feet away with an SMG. The guy with the SMG doesn't have a prayer. But, in Halo 1, you could always mess with a Sniper. Now, that takes skill.

[TOTTEN]

Edit: Thank you for proving my point.
You basically stated that if you have any skill in Halo 1 you can far outclass anyone else thus making yourself invincible. But in Halo 2 anyone can begin duel weilding and become an instant threat thus making the game more difficult.

Noones proving your points because what your saying doesnt make sence. Invincibility isnt garunteed. You have to pull off the 3-5 shots without error. dual wielding is a sloppy n00b feature which makes tactics with it just run at your opponent pulling the trigger or if your not a n00b taking cover and doing that. Halo 2 is undoubtably built for n00bs.

[FB-Gollum]

OMFG...What has happened on this thread. Anyhoo, I'm gunna drop some big thoughts later when I have time, but for now..WHAT IS THIS PISTOL OBSESSION? I have to back madhattr, the pistol is quite the noob weapon. The BR is a much more skilled weapon. I'll explain why later tonight. Even though you'll all disagree and be sarcastic, cynical etc. in an effort to defend the digital testosterone developed during far too many hours worshipping a video game that as much as I love it, was inherently flawed.

[l Maximus l]

OMFG...What has happened on this thread. Anyhoo, I'm gunna drop some big thoughts later when I have time, but for now..WHAT IS THIS PISTOL OBSESSION? I have to back madhattr, the pistol is quite the noob weapon. The BR is a much more skilled weapon. I'll explain why later tonight. Even though you'll all disagree and be sarcastic, cynical etc. in an effort to defend the digital testosterone developed during far too many hours worshipping a video game that as much as I love it, was inherently flawed.

What I'm confused about is how you and Madhattr go as far as saying the pistol is "a n00b weapon". Give me a break! No one is debating whether or not the BR requires skill...but, to say that it is a "much more skilled weapon" is going way too far.

Yes, it does take skill to use a Battle Rifle...if and only if the opponent you are shooting at also has a BR or a Sniper Rifle. If your unweary opponent is a medium distance away and only has an SMG, the BR definately doesn't take skill to kill someone. Atleast in Halo 1, an opponent is likely to have a Pistol and can defend himself.

Was Halo 1 perfect? Not at all...it had it's shortcomings but it definately took skill to play effectively against other skilled players. Halo 2 seemingly has even more shortcomings, especially considering that it took out very key elements in Halo 1.

For instance:

1. Halo 1 has fall damage...Halo 2 doesn't. This is a HUGE change.

2. Vehicles in Halo 1 could be flipped with a well placed grenade (excluding tanks, of course)...in Halo 2, perhaps a grenade will give a charging vehicle a bunny hop or a peice of shrapnel may come off, but, they will not flip. This is a ridiculously HUGE change.

3. In Halo 1, we rarely if never had to search around for weapon upgrades...we were in the action right from spawn/respawn. In Halo 2, we spend crucial time searching for weapon upgrades because having a single SMG against an oncoming opponent will make you lose everytime because they will likely have already upgraded. In Halo 1, there is no excuse for having a crap weapon unless you trade out your pistol with a shotgun or something idiotic like that. This is definately a HUGE change.

4. In CTF games, in Halo 2, the flag bearer cannot drive the Warthog. In Halo 1, you could! Don't tell me that this is not a HUGE change.

5. In Halo 2, you have to hold down X to pick up a flag...in Halo 1, all you had to do was walk over it. This is a minor change, but, definately a change...and it certainly took time to get used to.

6. Halo 1 didn't have Banshees in multi-player; however, Halo 2 does. This is not an improvement...this additional was part of the murder of the Halo series. Banshees and Ghost Ships suck and always will suck. Wraiths suck, tanks suck...I'll take an old school Warthog anyday. (not the Gauss Hog...it's also a P.O.S.)

7. Gaydar is used in nearly every Halo 2 matchmaking mode (excluding all swords or all Rockets). It was rare, even for n00bs, to use gaydar in Halo 1.

8. No health bar in Halo 2. In Halo 1, there was a health bar. This is a critical change, IMO, because a single grenade could kill an opponent in Halo 1 if they had a full shield; however, didn't have full health. In Halo 2, it's a slut fest of camping until your shield replenishes to full strength.

9. Sniping is ridiculously dumbed down in Halo 2. If you have a sniper and you don't get atleast single headshot in a game, then you simply suck. In Halo 1, even pros were stoked when they were able to pop off an opponent with a perfect shot to the head. I was just playing Halo 2 yesterday and I flat out sniped someone in their chest but was credited a headshot. And, eventhough I was credited with the headshot, I definately was not satisfied...in fact, I shook my head. Headshots don't carry bragging rights like they used to.

10. Also, in Halo 2, speaking of sniping, you're not able to snipe a person clear across Coagulation; however, you could on Blood Gulch in Halo 1. This is a HUGE change.

11. In Halo 1, plasma weapons stun your opponent and you could go in for a melee kill. In Halo 2, you have no such chance...stunning an opponent is a thing of the past because it doesn't exist in Halo 2. Even a single SMG will beat a single plasma rifle because it shoots bubble like plasma and they drift. This is a dramatically HUGE change.

My point is that Halo 2 has so many more shortcomings that Halo 1 did when it comes to gameplay. Bungie definately added a lot to Halo 2 from Halo 1; however, in the process, they also took away a lot which is completely ridiculous. This is precisely why people, like myself, on here are saying that Halo 2 is a dumbed down version of Halo 1. Sure, Halo 2 definately has better graphics...there's no question; however, little adjustments in gameplay effected the game far more than what I even believe Bungie would have thought.

[Madhattr]

Look even though I could easily argue 90% of your points I am not going to. The Pistol is and always will be the ultimate "noob" weapon for the sheer fact it slaughters everything else on the field. It is like having a close quarters game where one person has the rocket launcher and everyone else has plasma pistols.
The reason the pistol is highlighted is because you always start with it in Halo 1 and you will use it 90% of the time. What is so damn hard to understand about this?
You would probably call the rocket launcher a "noob" weapon but not the pistol even though the pistol is far more dangerous at less skill.

[MikeMan91389]

Take Scorpion from this website for example. He's ranked a 26, I believe, on Team Slayer and arguably the best Halo 2 player from XBA. I used to play against him with Halo 1 and him and I were pretty evenly skilled at Halo 1; however, admittingly, he may have been just a tad better than me. Somehow Halo 2 clicks with him better...and I find that extremely skilled Halo 1 players that play Halo 2 either get it or just can't quite get it. I'm one of the guys that just can't quite get Halo 2 because it's so freakin' different of a game than Halo 1 that it's like comparing Apples with Oranges...where I hoped I would be comparing Apples to Apples.

Not so quick maxi - in the games ive played with him i think i won 3 he won 1 or 2... but that was 2v2.. he = me IMO --- at least, custom settings.. matchmaking - i dont play anymore, so he may have me on the ts strats and stuff, i dunno, but he plays his share of customs too. not hailin on his parade, but yeh no.... i love you too. hey, we should ts it up more on my other name.

i got standbyed at level 11 in ts.. we were up 25-2 and they wipped it out, i had my teammates leave game, and i hid. it pwnd. we won 25-17.. they sed they were better than 11s, but it was unfair b/c we had a 16 on our team. haha

[MikeMan91389]

Look even though I could easily argue 90% of your points I am not going to. The Pistol is and always will be the ultimate "noob" weapon for the sheer fact it slaughters everything else on the field. It is like having a close quarters game where one person has the rocket launcher and everyone else has plasma pistols.
The reason the pistol is highlighted is because you always start with it in Halo 1 and you will use it 90% of the time. What is so damn hard to understand about this?
You would probably call the rocket launcher a "noob" weapon but not the pistol even though the pistol is far more dangerous at less skill.

god mad, i dunno but to me this seems like 2nd grade math.

pistol vs. 3 shot kill capability (if shots are well placed, 2 body/head last head)
vs.
pistol vs. 3 shot kill capability (if shots are well placed, 2 body/head last head)
= More skilled person getting the kill.

smg (with no 'headshot' capability) vs. smg (with no 'headshot' capability)
= first shooter should get the kill.

Its not nooby because it takes skill. You could then argue the sniper is nooby.
It doesn't slaughter everything else, because other weps were good for other situations - plasma rifle could stun - rocket blows stuff up - sniper long distance

The pistol is the complete weapon because it is best at med. range, has a chance against a snipe at long range, and stands a chance at close range vs another weapon

you noobs on here talk like 3 shot kills is your normal. here's a newsflash. 95% of you are bad at halo, even if you beat your friends at a lan, or won a local tournament.

shooting someone in the body 6 times means your less skilled than someone who hits someone in the head 3 times on a more consistant basis. thats what skill is. it isnt luck.

i could argue this forever. but you'll never see my point... but you think your right because you beat your friends who keep out the smg at your lan party on night and 'slaughtered everything in sight'

btw - im using 'you' as everyone for the most part. nothin personal madhtter

EDIT - it doesn't slaughter everything in sight- everyone else has one, so you die too, unless you are more SKILLED than the other team.

[Madhattr]

god mad, i dunno but to me this seems like 2nd grade math.

pistol vs. 3 shot kill capability (if shots are well placed, 2 body/head last head)
vs.
pistol vs. 3 shot kill capability (if shots are well placed, 2 body/head last head)
= More skilled person getting the kill.

smg (with no 'headshot' capability) vs. smg (with no 'headshot' capability)
= first shooter should get the kill.

Its not nooby because it takes skill. You could then argue the sniper is nooby.
It doesn't slaughter everything else, because other weps were good for other situations - plasma rifle could stun - rocket blows stuff up - sniper long distance

The pistol is the complete weapon because it is best at med. range, has a chance against a snipe at long range, and stands a chance at close range vs another weapon

you noobs on here talk like 3 shot kills is your normal. here's a newsflash. 95% of you are bad at halo, even if you beat your friends at a lan, or won a local tournament.

shooting someone in the body 6 times means your less skilled than someone who hits someone in the head 3 times on a more consistant basis. thats what skill is. it isnt luck.

i could argue this forever. but you'll never see my point... but you think your right because you beat your friends who keep out the smg at your lan party on night and 'slaughtered everything in sight'

btw - im using 'you' as everyone for the most part. nothin personal madhtter

EDIT - it doesn't slaughter everything in sight- everyone else has one, so you die too, unless you are more SKILLED than the other team.

Actually it does slaughter everything. What is the easiest part of the body to hit? gotta be the chest right? Big target, ok so say your 3rd shot misses the head it takes what 4 shots to the chest to kill?
When you are firing across an entire map with a handgun that can kill faster than a MACHINE GUN you are using a "nooby" weapon. It doesn't take as much skill when it auto aims and packs that much punch.
And just because someone is duel weilding doesn't mean they will automatically win there still is tactics to smg battles. And what about the tactics that happen before you get into a smg battle?
I beat lots of people on XBC, I never played LANS so I don't know where you are going with that.

BTW in case you took a small vacation from reality a PISTOL should NOT have a chance against a SNIPER at LONG RANGE!
Say bungie changed the pistol and made it shoot sniper rounds that exploded like rockets. Now sure it only takes one shot to kill and whoever gets the first shot would be more skilled (sarcasm) but doesn't it make things a little too easy? This is what I am getting at.

[ScorpionX]

Look even though I could easily argue 90% of your points I am not going to. The Pistol is and always will be the ultimate "noob" weapon for the sheer fact it slaughters everything else on the field. It is like having a close quarters game where one person has the rocket launcher and everyone else has plasma pistols.
The reason the pistol is highlighted is because you always start with it in Halo 1 and you will use it 90% of the time. What is so damn hard to understand about this?
You would probably call the rocket launcher a "noob" weapon but not the pistol even though the pistol is far more dangerous at less skill.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. A "noob" weapon is a weapon that a new player to the game can pick up and dominate with it. A noob could NEVER pick up the pistol and dominate with it. The pistol wasn't all that powerful unless you were GOOD and knew how to use it. But in Halo 2 anyone can pick up the sword and kill anyone, regardless of skill. And stop with this "three shot kills are easy" garbage. I was very good at Halo and every TSK felt good because it is not easy when you are playing good people.

Not so quick maxi - in the games ive played with him i think i won 3 he won 1 or 2... but that was 2v2.. he = me IMO --- at least, custom settings.. matchmaking - i dont play anymore, so he may have me on the ts strats and stuff, i dunno, but he plays his share of customs too. not hailin on his parade, but yeh no.... i love you too. hey, we should ts it up more on my other name.

What? I've played like 2 games with your buddies (who spent the entire game complaining) and I'm pretty sure we split. And I unvite you to play and in the middle of the game you quit, apparantly because you were tired (although you weren't tired enough to boot up your box and start playing).

WHAT IS THIS PISTOL OBSESSION?

Heres the bottom line buddy: The pistol was Halo. It signle-handedly made Halo the most popular console FPS of all time. Simply put, there would be no Halo 2 if it weren't for the pistol. And in case you didn't notice this is a video game forum. Go to a Halo forum with Halo players and the hatred for Halo 2 isn't bad at all.

[m4oH]

Damn, I just read this whole thread. I have to go now but I would like to say I'm on Max'y's and Scorp's side.

BTW- Madhattr the pistol is a 2 kill shot if you know how to use it, but usually a 3.

[Madhattr]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. A "noob" weapon is a weapon that a new player to the game can pick up and dominate with it. A noob could NEVER pick up the pistol and dominate with it. The pistol wasn't all that powerful unless you were GOOD and knew how to use it. But in Halo 2 anyone can pick up the sword and kill anyone, regardless of skill. And stop with this "three shot kills are easy" garbage. I was very good at Halo and every TSK felt good because it is not easy when you are playing good people

Oh like the pistol was so difficult to control, put the reticule on someone and fire as fast as you can. Like I said a couple hours of practice with the only weapon you will probably use during the whole time and you get pretty damn good. The auto aim did alot and the fact grenades were twice as powerful sure didn't hurt.
The pistol WAS all that powerful and no it is not that hard to learn how to use something when it is the only real option.
The fact is Halo 2 is more complicated, has more variation and the weapons are better balanced.
I for one am glad to see the Uber-Pistol gone, being able to compete with a variety of weapons is a nice change.
But whatever, I don't intend to change your mind and you probably wont listen reguardless.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

BTW in case you took a small vacation from reality a PISTOL should NOT have a chance against a SNIPER at LONG RANGE!
Say bungie changed the pistol and made it shoot sniper rounds that exploded like rockets. Now sure it only takes one shot to kill and whoever gets the first shot would be more skilled (sarcasm) but doesn't it make things a little too easy? This is what I am getting at.

Worst analogy ever. Besides have you not noticed how Halo doesn't really exist in reality. The pistol took skill. You said you played XBC so you of all people should know that not everyone pulls off TSKs everytime. In pistol duels, I mean actual duels, it took a while with all the strafing and quick calculated leading. It didn't matter who got the first shot, the better player could turn around and take you out or vice versa. I bet you haven't played enough games to know how much spawning sucks in this game. It's all about luck and you don't stand a chance about half way into the game when the other team has possession of the sniper rifles. In Halo, you STOOD a chance when you spawned. It depended on skill. You either BLEW the other team away or you were somewhat matched. Halo matches last a long ass time like an hour on average on XBC. Tell me it doesn't take skill to win after all that struggle, to gain possession. In Halo, you could die ANY second. You were on your toes. In Halo 2, I feel safe. I don't have that sense of danger. Halo > Halo 2.

I beat lots of people on XBC

Try staying out of the "Noobs Only" rooms and you may understand what kind of skill Halo took.

[l Maximus l]

Oh like the pistol was so difficult to control, put the reticule on someone and fire as fast as you can. Like I said a couple hours of practice with the only weapon you will probably use during the whole time and you get pretty damn good. The auto aim did alot and the fact grenades were twice as powerful sure didn't hurt.
The pistol WAS all that powerful and no it is not that hard to learn how to use something when it is the only real option.
The fact is Halo 2 is more complicated, has more variation and the weapons are better balanced.
I for one am glad to see the Uber-Pistol gone, being able to compete with a variety of weapons is a nice change.
But whatever, I don't intend to change your mind and you probably wont listen reguardless.

It's just common sense. Scorpion said it perfectly when he said that the Pistol single handedly made Halo. The Pistol made the game so damn successful.

The problem with Halo 2 is that we are all submitted to a lame ass SMG and find ourselves looking for weapon upgrades all the time. Why are we looking for weapon upgrades? Because it sucks...a person is almost paralized by it. It's not as if when you respawn that everyone else respawns with you, right? Sure, in the beginning, it's all equal...but, as soon as one person dies, the playing field is unbalanced. Why? Because a plasma rifle duel wielded with an SMG is far more ruthless than a single SMG...and duel wielded SMGs. The magnum duel wielded with an SMG is even more powerful. It's very likely that an opponent already is equiped with them when you respawn with a lame ass, defenseless SMG.

So, let's take for example you respawn...you have a single SMG...and suddedly an enemy comes around the corner with a plasma rifle duel wielded with an SMG. You have no chance. Let's say you are a level 20 and the guy that came around was a level 11. Who would win? ............Obviously the opponent.

However in Halo 1, for example, let's say you respawn...you have your handy Pistol and Assault Rifle. A guy walks around the corner...your eyes meet...he's shooting the pistol at you and you are shooting the pistol back on him. Who is the winner of this match? The guy that has more skill...the guy who dodges the pistol shots and lands the most shots on the other...and never at any moment are you paralized by a lame ass weapon.

Man, sometimes I feel like I'm explaining myself to a pre-school kid.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

It's just common sense. Scorpion said it perfectly when he said that the Pistol single handedly made Halo. The Pistol made the game so damn successful.

Third-ed

You know how annoying the big maps are now? Why do you think the small maps are the better in this game? Because you can't do **** on the big maps. It's so amazingly annoying to WATCH the enemy and can't do anything about it. I mean seriously. You can zoom in and see them but you don't get a weapon with reach. Honestly!

[l Maximus l]

Third-ed

You know how annoying the big maps are now? Why do you think the small maps are the better in this game? Because you can't do **** on the big maps. It's so amazingly annoying to WATCH the enemy and can't do anything about it. I mean seriously. You can zoom in and see them but you don't get a weapon with reach. Honestly!

Ahhhh....the good old days where you could be standing at one end of Blood Gulch and snipe someone on the other end.... :cool:

But, those days are gone with Halo 2 :cuss:

[Madhattr]

It's just common sense. Scorpion said it perfectly when he said that the Pistol single handedly made Halo. The Pistol made the game so damn successful.

The problem with Halo 2 is that we are all submitted to a lame ass SMG and find ourselves looking for weapon upgrades all the time. Why are we looking for weapon upgrades? Because it sucks...a person is almost paralized by it. It's not as if when you respawn that everyone else respawns with you, right? Sure, in the beginning, it's all equal...but, as soon as one person dies, the playing field is unbalanced. Why? Because a plasma rifle duel wielded with an SMG is far more ruthless than a single SMG...and duel wielded SMGs. The magnum duel wielded with an SMG is even more powerful. It's very likely that an opponent already is equiped with them when you respawn with a lame ass, defenseless SMG.

So, let's take for example you respawn...you have a single SMG...and suddedly an enemy comes around the corner with a plasma rifle duel wielded with an SMG. You have no chance. Let's say you are a level 20 and the guy that came around was a level 11. Who would win? ............Obviously the opponent.

However in Halo 1, for example, let's say you respawn...you have your handy Pistol and Assault Rifle. A guy walks around the corner...your eyes meet...he's shooting the pistol at you and you are shooting the pistol back on him. Who is the winner of this match? The guy that has more skill...the guy who dodges the pistol shots and lands the most shots on the other...and never at any moment are you paralized by a lame ass weapon.

Man, sometimes I feel like I'm explaining myself to a pre-school kid.

So what you are saying is you don't like having to make decisions on what weapons to risk going for and you don't like making tactics. You want to have the best weapon right off the bat and for it never to change.
Yes if someone comes around the corner and you are sitting there with your ****ty SMG you are dead I wont argue with you on that. Thems tough breaks, I suppose you would like bungie to make it so you could have an arsenal of weapons in your pocket everytime you spawn.
Isn't the the whole point of FPS's? go out, be stealthy, find new and better weapons? Maybe you should stick to rocket games or something. If you want to run around with a single SMG go ahead, just don't complain when you die.

Oh and that was quite the cutting remark Stonepaw especially after all that mindless blithering. If you want why don't you just play snipers? It is almost exactly the same as halo 1. Everyone starts out with a high powered weapon (the same one) and you don't have to worry your pretty little head about making decisions like picking up weapons. :p

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

Oh and that was quite the cutting remark Stonepaw especially after all that mindless blithering. If you want why don't you just play snipers? It is almost exactly the same as halo 1. Everyone starts out with a high powered weapon (the same one) and you don't have to worry your pretty little head about making decisions like picking up weapons. :p

Sadly, snipers don't even really have reach on big maps. They get like half way across the map. Halo was satisfying. When you did something, you were pleased and usually found yourself yelling or whooping, shouting taunts, even though they can't hear you. You win a pistol duel... it was intense. Usually close. Halo 2? Well let's get that PP shot to follow that guy around the corner and the job's done. LoL? You tried to dodge the PP? Idiot, there's crazy AA this this game.

[wbio]

So what you are saying is you don't like having to make decisions on what weapons to risk going for and you don't like making tactics. You want to have the best weapon right off the bat and for it never to change.
Yes if someone comes around the corner and you are sitting there with your ****ty SMG you are dead I wont argue with you on that. Thems tough breaks, I suppose you would like bungie to make it so you could have an arsenal of weapons in your pocket everytime you spawn.
Isn't the the whole point of FPS's? go out, be stealthy, find new and better weapons? Maybe you should stick to rocket games or something. If you want to run around with a single SMG go ahead, just don't complain when you die.

Oh and that was quite the cutting remark Stonepaw especially after all that mindless blithering. If you want why don't you just play snipers? It is almost exactly the same as halo 1. Everyone starts out with a high powered weapon (the same one) and you don't have to worry your pretty little head about making decisions like picking up weapons. :p
There are only 2 Snipers and 4 BRs on Coagulation when you play matchmaking, if you don't have one of those weapons, you can't do anything unless you get right next to a person. In Halo 1, you started out with a weapon that you could get people from mid range with. Big maps like Coagulation need guns that can actually do something at a distance, what's the point of having a big map if you still have to rely on close combat? When you spawn, you just have to pray there's no one with a BR or Sniper looking at you, because if they are, you're dead, there's no way of avoiding it. In Halo 1, you started out with a weapon that gave you a chance against everyone. What strategy is required for Coagulation on Halo 2? Last time I checked you couldn't decide where you respawn, and from there you just have to rely on luck to get you away from snipers to a decent weapon that can actually do some damage to someone standing more than 20 ft. away from you.
I sill have no clue as to how you could call the pistol a noob gun, it's whoever can get the kill in the least shots, but whatever, I'm not going to try to go into detail on that because you've already argued that one plenty.

[MikeMan91389]

damnit. im done with this thread. mad - your off the hook

scorp - yeah, plus your teammate was a random- im not saying you arent > me, im just saying we've never been pitted together. i thought i took 2/3 from you, but prolly not, i have a bad memory - i dont remember quitting tho, i don't quit midgame - unless my parents unplugged me, what time was it?

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

what's the point of having a big map if you still have to rely on close combat?

Yes! That's why big maps suck major ass. That's sad because Halo 2 was about the ability to have 16 people in a game and where do you put these 16 people... big maps.

If you could get 16 people in a game on Halo, it was the craziest **** ever! I've done it over XBC... CTF BG. It was crazy and hectic. As soon as you spawned, you just ran to the knolls. The whole battle was at the knolls... fighting for control. Trying to putsh back their wave after wave. So awesome! Is it like that in Halo 2... no not really.

Is Halo 2 a bad game in itself? No. Does it shy from the previous game of which it was to be better than? Very.

[E Nomini Patri]

BTW- Madhattr the pistol is a 2 kill shot if you know how to use it, but usually a 3.

Uhh... enlighten us. :/

[LTM360]

2 shot kill huh?

Anyways; Let's just say Halo 1 is better. Now since H1 isn't LIVE enabled, let us play Halo 2 online. :)

/me sits in a party on Halo 2

[Madhattr]

There are only 2 Snipers and 4 BRs on Coagulation when you play matchmaking, if you don't have one of those weapons, you can't do anything unless you get right next to a person. In Halo 1, you started out with a weapon that you could get people from mid range with. Big maps like Coagulation need guns that can actually do something at a distance, what's the point of having a big map if you still have to rely on close combat? When you spawn, you just have to pray there's no one with a BR or Sniper looking at you, because if they are, you're dead, there's no way of avoiding it. In Halo 1, you started out with a weapon that gave you a chance against everyone. What strategy is required for Coagulation on Halo 2? Last time I checked you couldn't decide where you respawn, and from there you just have to rely on luck to get you away from snipers to a decent weapon that can actually do some damage to someone standing more than 20 ft. away from you.

I agree with you completly and have argued this in other previous threads. Coagulation is a horrible map when you start with SMG. I am sure anyone here will tell you that if they set the BR as the starting weapon it would be fixed. Hopefully bungie takes a hint.

[MikeMan91389]

I agree with you completly and have argued this in other previous threads. Coagulation is a horrible map when you start with SMG. I am sure anyone here will tell you that if they set the BR as the starting weapon it would be fixed. Hopefully bungie takes a hint.

nah, still wouldnt be fixed --- banshees would have a field day w/ br's, smgs hurt them more.. they need to remove those too. or they could take coag off as a slayer map, and put lockout on as a normal slayer map...

[l Maximus l]

If anything is n00bish, it's the use of Banshees and Ghost Ships...and I might as well as throw Gauss Warthogs in there, too. The only vehicle I like is the standard Warthog. But, even then, in Halo 2, a well-placed grenade in it's path does nothing to it other than give it a bunny hop or a peice of shrapnel flies off of it.

Halo 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Halo 2.

The only things Halo 2 has going for it is:

1. Better graphics
2. Cool new maps
3. Options for customizing gametypes
4. XBox Live compatibility
5. Killer stat system via Bungie.net

The crap things Halo 2 has going for it:

1. No fall damage
2. Too easy to snipe (and make headshots)
3. Cannot snipe the full length of some maps (big maps)
4. Cannot flip vehicles with well-placed grenades
5. No server list for custom gametypes
6. Standbyers
7. No timers on weapon respawns
8. Gaydar is enabled in matchmaking games
9. Worthless starting weaponry
10. etc...

Halo 1>Halo 2

[ScorpionX]

Maxi if I'm not mistaken weren't you defending Halo 2 in a few other threads? Anyway I'm glad you finally saw the badness of Halo 2. Kinda sad is that all Bungie had to do was put a few new maps and vehicles in, but they had to butcher the game instead.

scorp - yeah, plus your teammate was a random- im not saying you arent > me, im just saying we've never been pitted together. i thought i took 2/3 from you, but prolly not, i have a bad memory - i dont remember quitting tho, i don't quit midgame - unless my parents unplugged me, what time was it?

I know it was pretty late and I know you were saying something about a tourney.

[l Maximus l]

Maxi if I'm not mistaken weren't you defending Halo 2 in a few other threads? Anyway I'm glad you finally saw the badness of Halo 2. Kinda sad is that all Bungie had to do was put a few new maps and vehicles in, but they had to butcher the game instead.

Yep! I did defend Halo 2 in earlier threads...much earlier, though. It's because at the time, I kept trying to give the game a chance. Now, I feel that I have given Halo 2 an amazing chance and I also have put in several hours of Halo 1 recently. Admittingly, I kept trying to find potential in Halo 2...and my denial lasted for quite some time. But, no matter how hard I try, I just can't make Halo 2 fun. At the time, I wasn't ready to make a conclusion about Halo 2 because I really wanted it to be the game we were all expecting. It's really sad how it fell far too short and ended up being a dumbed down n00bie version of the Halo series.

I mean, it's sad when you win a match in Halo 2, look at your stats and you have 10 headshots and you can maybe think back and remember 1 headshot. The system is flawed...the game simply is not nearly as fun as Halo 1. And, I keep thinking of reasons why...and I think I've done a pretty decent job in explaining why I don't enjoy Halo 2 nearly as much as Halo 1.

Don't get me wrong, though...I do play Halo 2...and I try to enjoy it. One thing I do enjoy is the XBL compatibility and playing with all of you guys from XBA on there. But, anytime I play solo and team up with a bunch of people I don't know, it's not fun. In Halo 1, I'd play by myself over XBC and had a blast...in fact, I made a lot of friends on XBC because of Halo 1...in fact, 3 guys that I used to play with are now employed by me! hehehe...I kid you not! They are my employees :D

Halo 1 was more than just a game...it was an icon...a game that motivated me to travel miles and pay to play...even if I was playing on a 27" tube TV in a tournament when I could play for free on my 50" Widescreen HDTV. I mean, that's freakin' amazing to me...

I'm thinking about firing up XBC and playing with the hardcore Halo 1 fans on there...and hope and pray that Bill Gates forces Bungie to make an XBL version of Halo 1.

[Sam-XBA]

i had halo pc, and im simply going to say that halo2 beats it in every way... and halo pc / )which was prety much the same as CE just with multiplayer and slightly better graphics) was a brilliant game... its just that halo2 is better. *imo* (just to be safe :))

[FB-Gollum]

Ok...I think I've got my wits back.

I WANT EVERYONE ONE WHO READS THIS TO READ CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND THE POINT BEING MADE HERE. THIS IS A SYLLOGISM (AN "IF-THEN-THEREFORE") ARGUMENT.

Alright...first...the pistol is NOT the default starting weapon on MOST maps in Halo CE. Usually it is the AR or the PP. We must understand this.

IF...

We did not have the power to MAKE the pistol the default weapon (which we did, contrary to what some on here have claimed earlier in the thread, go check for yourself).

THEN...

The pistol would be a totally broken weapon that would heavily tilt the balance of power in favour of whoever had it. We'd all be *****ing about it like mad. Kinda like how we do about Swords.

THEREFORE...

The pistol is a broken weapon and Halo 1 lacks any greater balance than Halo 2.




T

[maneatingcow]

Being a casual Halo 2 player, I must say the following:

Whenever I start a game of Halo 2 on Live, I usually get mowed down the first few times, but eventually, I start getting plenty of kills. Not because of any sort of skill, but simply due to patterns that I follow. I tend to pick up on what the other players are doing and try it myself.

That is the major flaw of the game. If a n00bish player can pick up Halo 2, and utilizing the same weaponry as a more skilled players, constantly kill them, the system is ****ed.

That is all.

[FB-Gollum]

Ok...I think I've got my wits back.

I WANT EVERYONE ONE WHO READS THIS TO READ CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND THE POINT BEING MADE HERE. THIS IS A SYLLOGISM (AN "IF-THEN-THEREFORE") ARGUMENT.

Alright...first...the pistol is NOT the default starting weapon on MOST maps in Halo CE. Usually it is the AR or the PP. We must understand this.

IF...

We did not have the power to MAKE the pistol the default weapon (which we did, contrary to what some on here have claimed earlier in the thread, go check for yourself).

THEN...

The pistol would be a totally broken weapon that would heavily tilt the balance of power in favour of whoever had it. We'd all be *****ing about it like mad. Kinda like how we do about Swords.

THEREFORE...

The pistol is a broken weapon and Halo 1 lacks any greater balance than Halo 2.






Sorry to quote myself and continue but I'm posting at work. To create equality, we made the Pistol the default across all gametypes, because the game gave us the power to do so.

IF...

We had the power to set our own gametypes as a community, that could be searched by the community and joined without having to be on the friends list.

THEN...

We could do away with the lion's share of the issues many have with the game.

THEREFORE...

The game could become what we want it to be and most of us could develop the same love for it we had for Halo CE.

[Soundscape]

if you asked the pro's which game is better and takes more skill i would bet money that they all would say h1.

although i agree that the h1 pistol was an unbalanced weapon, i also agree with the others here who say the pistol took much skill to use...more than the BR, imo. i never really played a whole lot of h1(just with friends every now and then), so making the switch to h2 without the pistol was no big deal for me.

but in halo2 any halfway decent player has a good chance against the very good players if they're holding the right weapon(s). last night for instance....i was playing 4on4 mlg slayer on lockout against and with some very good players. i was about 5-7 kills behind my teamates untill i got ahold of the sword and got about 6 easy kills in a row. we were controlling the sniper tower area, and every time someone made that jump up from the middle to the sniper ledge they got slashed. if they came up the ramp or to my second floor level they got slashed. by the time they got to our area it was too late to do anything but get slashed because it's such a confined area that it almost impossible to defend against the sword lunge, ecspecially when you have good teammates. it wasn't untill my team got slightly seperated that they were able to flank me and take me out. if i had been weilding a br or anything else on the map and not had the sword i probably would have gotten smoked and had about half the ammount of kills in the end.


imo, bungie is like any other company. they're in it to make money...designing their product to please the masses. with the duel weilding, the sword, no fall damage, dumbed down sniping, gaydar in m.m., and the large amount of auto-aim i have think they probably designed this game so anyone could pick up the game and have a decent chance at killing. but most of the guys who were mediocre at h1 and are pretty good at h2 don't want to hear that. ;)

that's my opinion anyway.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

Ok...I think I've got my wits back.

I WANT EVERYONE ONE WHO READS THIS TO READ CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND THE POINT BEING MADE HERE. THIS IS A SYLLOGISM (AN "IF-THEN-THEREFORE") ARGUMENT.

Alright...first...the pistol is NOT the default starting weapon on MOST maps in Halo CE. Usually it is the AR or the PP. We must understand this.

IF...

We did not have the power to MAKE the pistol the default weapon (which we did, contrary to what some on here have claimed earlier in the thread, go check for yourself).

THEN...

The pistol would be a totally broken weapon that would heavily tilt the balance of power in favour of whoever had it. We'd all be *****ing about it like mad. Kinda like how we do about Swords.

THEREFORE...

The pistol is a broken weapon and Halo 1 lacks any greater balance than Halo 2.




T

Bungie had a "Pro" added to each of their gametypes in Halo that meant that you started with an AR and Pistol. People just worked off of that.

EVEN with BR start, it'd only make small maps and SOME mid-sized maps better. The big maps are still unbalanced. There's no range. That's what I loved about Halo. No one was safe from my wrath, you know?

[l Maximus l]

I will agree that having a BR as a starting weapon would be a hell of a lot better.

I also believe that gaydar should be disabled.

I also believe that grenades should be able to flip vehicles

I also believe that fall damage should be in Halo 2.

I also believe that flag bearers should be able to drive vehicles.

I also believe that Banshees, Ghost Ships, Wraiths, and anything else that is not the classic Warthog should be outlawed.

I believe the Sword should be taken out because it is such a n00b weapon.

If those things happened, Halo 2 would ALMOST be as fun as Halo 1.

The only thing Halo 2 has going for it is graphics, an awesome custom options and interface, XBL compatibility, and a killer Bungie.net global stats system.

[Soundscape]

i completely agree. one thing, though... you can flip ghosts and hogs with a 'nade, but only if they are at a standstill or are moving VERY slowly.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

i completely agree. one thing, though... you can flip ghosts and hogs with a 'nade, but only if they are at a standstill or are moving VERY slowly.

Yea, but that defeats the purpose. That's why Halo 2 doesn't have the same intensity as Halo. You could be doing good 1 second and be in a disasterous state the next second. When you're driving with the flag in the warthog in Halo, you know they're about to spawn. Your heart races because just 1 well-placed grenade will take you out. In Halo 2, grab the rocket and you're straight...

[l Maximus l]

Yea, but that defeats the purpose. That's why Halo 2 doesn't have the same intensity as Halo. You could be doing good 1 second and be in a disasterous state the next second. When you're driving with the flag in the warthog in Halo, you know they're about to spawn. Your heart races because just 1 well-placed grenade will take you out. In Halo 2, grab the rocket and you're straight...

Yeah, Bungie butchered Halo 1's amazing Blood Gulch CTF experience with the Halo 2 grenade physics on Coagulation.

In Halo 1, Blood Gulch was one of my top 3 favorite maps. Coagulation has to be one of my least favorite maps on Halo 2...and the layout is essentially the same. Go figure. :huh:

*cough* Halo > Halo 2 *cough* *cough*

[l Maximus l]

Gentlemen! I discovered a great website: www.halo2sucks.com . Perhaps many of you guys knew about this but I accidentally bumped into it not know that it existed. Reading this gave me an epiphany.

There are articles on there that explained so well my hidden feelings towards Halo 2 so well...There's a lot of info and I'll eventually get to all of it...but, wow...somehow I feel so much better...I'm still trying to figure out why. I guess I can relate with all of the articles on there since I am a HARDCORE Halo 1 fan.

Gollum and Madhattr...seriously, check out the site...I promise I did not read this site at all before posting my previous posts. Craziness....:yikes:

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

Max... that site has been around for quite some time :p Most people know of it but never have gone.

[E Nomini Patri]

The problem with Halo 2 is the randomness, and FPS game's worst enemy.

Spawn points in team games.
N00b-wielding fights.
The Shotgun (good god...).
The Sword.
The health system (S'mores over a campfire anyone?).
Grenade damage.
Shooting grenades.
Grenades exploding from other grenades (wouldn't be a problem if one grenade did you in).
Team Slayer (matchmaking) on Coag, Colossus, and Burial Mounds (jesus those levels are bad for it...).

And finally!

The separation of skill (getting pwned by n00b-wielding legit level 6s...).

All of that **** up there is really getting me fed up with anything but custom games. Bungie had better fix the Shotgun and make it useful. I'm tired of being tricked into believing I have a reliable close range weapon when I grab it.

[wbio]

All of that **** up there is really getting me fed up with anything but custom games. Bungie had better fix the Shotgun and make it useful. I'm tired of being tricked into believing I have a reliable close range weapon when I grab it.
That's the weapon that pisses me off the most by far. Sometimes it three shots with it shoved in the other guy's gut, sometimes it's one shot from ten feet away. Last game I played, me and another guy each had a shotgun shooting at each other with the guns touching the other person, and it took 3 shots for us to kill eachother (we both died at the same time). I hate that, it makes the shotgun so unreliable.

[TOTTEN]

The problem with Halo 2 is the randomness, and FPS game's worst enemy.

Spawn points in team games.
N00b-wielding fights.
The Shotgun (good god...).
The Sword.
The health system (S'mores over a campfire anyone?).
Grenade damage.
Shooting grenades.
Grenades exploding from other grenades (wouldn't be a problem if one grenade did you in).
Team Slayer (matchmaking) on Coag, Colossus, and Burial Mounds (jesus those levels are bad for it...).

And finally!

The separation of skill (getting pwned by n00b-wielding legit level 6s...).

All of that **** up there is really getting me fed up with anything but custom games. Bungie had better fix the Shotgun and make it useful. I'm tired of being tricked into believing I have a reliable close range weapon when I grab it.
Dont forget the non-spawning power weapons.

[E Nomini Patri]

Or the random opponent matching.