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View Full Version : Next Xbox MUST be top of game.



Jojo Juey
04-11-2005, 12:56 PM
The success of the Xbox so far has been completely due to its hardware superiority, and the superiority of multiplayer via Xbox Live. Xbox relies on its technological lead over Sony to be competitive with the PS2. For the next-generation Xbox to compete with the PS3 it MUST continue this lead. Sony has the advantage in game devel. and were their console the most powerful as well, they would own the market. Rumors of PS3 using Blu-Ray and Microsoft opting not to are disquieting. Microsoft needs to play to their strength.

LynxFX
04-11-2005, 01:38 PM
The next gen won't come down to hardware specs, it will be down to the games. Both consoles will have enough power to produce equally amazing graphics (unlike this past gen where the PS2's looked like crap out of the gate).

FB-Gollum
04-11-2005, 01:52 PM
The success of the Xbox so far has been completely due to its hardware superiority, and the superiority of multiplayer via Xbox Live. Xbox relies on its technological lead over Sony to be competitive with the PS2. For the next-generation Xbox to compete with the PS3 it MUST continue this lead. Sony has the advantage in game devel. and were their console the most powerful as well, they would own the market. Rumors of PS3 using Blu-Ray and Microsoft opting not to are disquieting. Microsoft needs to play to their strength.

Wrong. A big part of PS2's success had to do with the hangover from PS1 in the burnable games dept. It was easy to get pirated games for PS2 and lots of people bought it for the reason that they wouldn't have to spend money on software. It took a lot longer for stuff like that to happen for Xbox. If Sony moves to Blu-Ray it wil be bad for them possibly.

m4oH
04-11-2005, 06:28 PM
Okay sorry to be such off topic but Gollum: don't you have to have a modchip something of the sort to play burned games. PM w/ answer please.

CRAYMAN
04-11-2005, 06:41 PM
Okay sorry to be such off topic but Gollum: don't you have to have a modchip something of the sort to play burned games. PM w/ answer please.
yes. :eek:


Wrong. A big part of PS2's success had to do with the hangover from PS1 in the burnable games dept. It was easy to get pirated games for PS2 and lots of people bought it for the reason that they wouldn't have to spend money on software. It took a lot longer for stuff like that to happen for Xbox. If Sony moves to Blu-Ray it wil be bad for them possibly.

You're saying that the PS2 benefits from pirating?.?.? :watchout:

Xer0Mercy
04-11-2005, 07:11 PM
M$ wants to make more of a profit this time around, and they know that BluRay will be incredibly expensive when it first comes out. I'm not so sure everyone realizes this, so they'll saying M$ is screwing over Xbox 2. I don't think so necessarily.

I've heard rumors of BluRay and HD-DVD players costing over $500 when they first come out. Just for the players. Do you guys really want to pay that much for a video game console? I'm sure the majority will say no.

TOTTEN
04-11-2005, 07:14 PM
M$ wants to make more of a profit this time around, and they know that BluRay will be incredibly expensive when it first comes out. I'm not so sure everyone realizes this, so they'll saying M$ is screwing over Xbox 2. I don't think so necessarily.

I've heard rumors of BluRay and HD-DVD players costing over $500 when they first come out. Just for the players. Do you guys really want to pay that much for a video game console? I'm sure the majority will say no.
Yeah I sure wouldnt want to pay that much for a console. I remember reading somewhere that the next gen consoles wont even use the current amount of space on a normal dvd(I probly read it here).

mattgame
04-11-2005, 07:15 PM
Oh okay. Because when I hear that the PS3 will have more under the hood the xbox 2, I get a little woozy. Blu Ray sounds good but if MS says they don't need it then cool.

FB-Gollum
04-11-2005, 07:20 PM
You're saying that the PS2 benefits from pirating?.?.? :watchout:

Nope. I'm saying they sell more hardware because of easy pirating from casual gamers who don't want to invest in a library of games. So actually yeah, in a way they do benefit. But it's a double edged sword.

CRAYMAN
04-11-2005, 09:03 PM
Nope. I'm saying they sell more hardware because of easy pirating from casual gamers who don't want to invest in a library of games. So actually yeah, in a way they do benefit. But it's a double edged sword.

Casual gamers, with FEW exceptions DON'T pirate.

Variation-XBA
04-11-2005, 10:11 PM
Wrong. A big part of PS2's success had to do with the hangover from PS1 in the burnable games dept. It was easy to get pirated games for PS2 and lots of people bought it for the reason that they wouldn't have to spend money on software. It took a lot longer for stuff like that to happen for Xbox. If Sony moves to Blu-Ray it wil be bad for them possibly.
No, you are wrong actually.
You really think PS2 sold THAT much better cause people wanted to play their burned ps1 games? Most companies LOST money on systems. So your theory states that companies should just make systems completly open, games copyable easily, and known to the public, hell, put a game copier inside the machine so you never have to buy your games.

Also note that PS2 sold better cause sony only reports the RAW sales data, and dont account for the fact that 50% of early generation PS2's broke and had to be repurchased/replaced.

Ever heard of Dreamcast? That's what happens. Nuff said.

AlphaRaptor
04-11-2005, 10:27 PM
I hardly see the PS2 having any advantage in the games department...

@Variation: I agree

Xer0Mercy
04-12-2005, 02:07 AM
I remember reading somewhere that the next gen consoles wont even use the current amount of space on a normal dvd(I probly read it here).
Now that's not what I heard. I heard that GTA: SA filled up completely a DVD9 disc. Of course I could be wrong on this, and I don't even have a source for that statement. But if it is true, and that game fills up a DVD9 disc, how many discs will the same game but higher quality graphics take up?

Now I'm not sure if this is how video games work, but this is what I'm assuming:

I'll use the analogy of movies on DVD. The producers of the DVD put the movie on the DVD at the highest quality possible while still being within the constraints of DVD9. This means that the quality of the footage is being reduced to fit on that single DVD9 disc. I know that size constraints aren't the only issue with DVD9's and quality, but I do think this is how it works. So basically what I'm getting at is Xbox 2 titles will be higher quality graphics, so won't the games take up more space on the DVD9? Although it hasn't been officially stated, Xbox 2 is said to not support BluRay or HD-DVD, which will lead to the conclusion that games will take up several DVD9's.

I suppose if all of this is the case, M$ could do what the Dreamcast did and spread games out over several discs (keep in mind the DC used cd's, not dvd's). Hopefully this is not the road that M$ will travel, but I'd much rather have higher quality graphics than reduced quality and make it fit on a single DVD9. I guess I'll just have to get used to switching discs out.I know I sure don't want to swap out discs left and right when I'm playing a game, but I'll suffer through it.

Hopefully someone who knows for sure what they're talking about will prove this post to be incorrect. I hope I'm wrong about some of this.

Spaztic
04-12-2005, 12:07 PM
Just a FYI
Their is not Xbox game that has filled up a entire DVD9! The biggest that I know of was roughtly 6gig. Without explaining programming I don't see not having hd-dvd a huge problem.

And btw you no longer need modchips to play burnable games. There are now exploits....

Huckleberry
04-12-2005, 12:34 PM
games are it. and i don't know if you've noticed, but the quantity of quality games for xbox has been growing like crazy. as many people on this site have noted, april is a bank buster for the system. developers are getting their arms around the capabilities now, and have seen MS do everything it could to make this system the best available.

in fact, it was just the tip of the iceberg. so many of the top developers did nothing on the xbox. but they saw everything that's transpired over the past 3 years and are now joining up with MS for exclusive content. lots of people. i don't have the list in front of me, but it seems that every time i get a new game informer magazine, someone else joins the exclusive team. MS knows a bit about world domination, just like sony. they did the right things to get their foot in the door. this next iteration won't just be about making a name for the xbox, though. now it's about submission of the other players. i'm not saying they'll put sony down like old yeller. but you can bet the installed user base numbers are going to look a lot different.

i just don't see sony being able to have such a stranglehold on the quality games this time around. and MS's collaboration w/mtv, the "rumor" that halo 3 will release the same day as ps3...those kinds of things say they're gonna be taking names this time around. and if the user base increases 2 or 4 or 6 fold, well, you can be sure the game developers will be taking note of that, too. 10 million is always better than 5 million is always better than 3 million, etc.

SamSmith
04-12-2005, 01:17 PM
Oh okay. Because when I hear that the PS3 will have more under the hood the xbox 2, I get a little woozy. Blu Ray sounds good but if MS says they don't need it then cool.

ive heard those rumours too, but it now looks like they are not true since the rumours about the graphics capabilities and about the X2s 3, 3ghz processors!!

LynxFX
04-12-2005, 01:50 PM
The factor of having or not having Blu-ray or HD-DVD has little to do with the storage space and gameplay. It has everything to do with being able to play the next gen of prerecorded movies in High Def and anchoring your console as a media/entertainment hub. Both MS and Sony have expressed high interest in wanting to go that direction. From the looks of it, MS dropped that plan, and Sony is sticking to it. Sony does have a lot more invested in an optical HD format but MS has stock in both HD formats (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) so it is odd that they would pass up the opportunity. Only reason I could think of was cost. Sony being part of the manufacturing process of Blu-ray will pay little more than what a standard DVD drive would cost so it most likely won't cut into their bottom line. MS doesn't have that luxury as they have to go through the normal hardware channels.

Without knowing the writ in stone hard specs of either console I still believe both will have equally amazing graphics so the console of choice will come down to games and features.

Whisper
04-12-2005, 09:52 PM
for me to buy it, it must be:

- a significant stride over the first xbox
- not make me buy a different subscription to xbox live
- not be released in different formats (no HD, HD included - not good strategy)
- come out before PS3
- backwards compatible
- forced to buy in bundles when I don't want to

Variation-XBA
04-12-2005, 10:27 PM
for me to buy it, it must be:
- not be released in different formats (no HD, HD included - not good strategy)
- backwards compatible
- forced to buy in bundles when I don't want to
Looks like you arn't getting an XB2 then.

Shadow20002
04-13-2005, 12:50 AM
PS3 with Blu-RAY = around 400 US
Xbox with DVD9 = around 300 US

AlphaRaptor
04-13-2005, 09:58 AM
ive heard those rumours too, but it now looks like they are not true since the rumours about the graphics capabilities and about the X2s 3, 3ghz processors!!
PS3: 256 gigaflops
:hail: Xbox 2: 1 terabite (1000 gigaflops)

If those are actually true specs, PS3=owned once again in the graphics department.

Btw, for those of you who are saying blue ray is sooo much better...why? Games today don't even use one side of a normal DVD. DVD9 will not limit anything, if it would, MS would be using a higher compacity medium. All sony will be doing is wasting thier money and the PS3 buyers money. :rolleyes:

Whisper
04-13-2005, 11:54 AM
so.. ive purposely been staying out of the loop on Xbox360.. is it going to be backwards compatible.. and will it have a hard drive? any closer to answers of these questions?

TOTTEN
04-13-2005, 11:59 AM
so.. ive purposely been staying out of the loop on Xbox360.. is it going to be backwards compatible.. and will it have a hard drive? any closer to answers of these questions?
There will be 2 versions of it that you can buy a Hardrive version and a no hardrive version.

Whisper
04-13-2005, 12:02 PM
is that confirmed or rumored... and the BC?

LynxFX
04-13-2005, 12:04 PM
Once again, Blu-ray will have nothing to do with storage space. I don't know why you guys keep harping on that as it won't have much if anything to do with games.

Blu-ray is all about the future of prerecorded movies. It is about High Definition prerecorded movies. DVD is the VHS of the next gen. HD-DVD is still a contender but Sony and the 15+ other major manufactures are hoping that the PS3 w/ Blu-ray will be their trump card in the HD format war.

But even from a standpoint of specs, Blu-ray trumps what DVD can do in the bitrate department and total throughput so if used correctly it could pump out more information at a time than DVD.

Alpha, that 256 gigaflops is for each cell, there are 8 cells in the Cell processor giving it a theoretical 2500 gigaflops. But until we see either of these in tangible form we have no idea how well they will work.

vman
04-13-2005, 05:17 PM
why are u guys worried about specs? I think true gamers should be more worried about the quality of gameplay. a game doesnt have to look good to be fun. sure, it makes it more appealing to the eye, but come on! were u really worried about graphics when mario came out? I sure wasnt. i just played it cause its fun.

SamSmith
04-13-2005, 05:26 PM
is that confirmed or rumored... and the BC?

i think they wil play safe and make it BC, but i couldnt care less if it isnt,,, when i got my ps2 i never played ps1 games on it... and when i got my xbox i never touched ps2 again,,, moving forward is good :) but ms will worry about not including BC, so id say they will include it

TheCovenant
04-13-2005, 05:47 PM
I think its harsh that lynx came in here, set everyone straight, and was required to return and restate the error of the use of blu ray and hd dvd. Everyone keeps talking about storage, but that not what blu ray and the hd dvd do. Blu ray was invented to play dvd's at an even higher quelity than dvd players. How does this affect games? Pre recorded movies will play at incredibly high resolutions, yada yada yada. I suspect the resolution of games will adapt to the technology, and it will add to how clean they look, and they WILL look rez'd up...but again, it has nothing to do with how much space is on a dvd9.

Nurb
04-13-2005, 05:48 PM
I'm not going to believe anything I'm told about system ability, and they can say all they want, if PS3 comes out a year after XBOX2, thats one more year of development and a possible edge performance-wise. PS2 -STILL- has developer preference despite Xbox hardware superiority, so of course it will continue if it turns out PS3 has better graphical and hardware abilities.

I'm just gonna wait for all systems if MS has its heart set on releasing its system that much earlier, besides I didn't like Halo 2 nearly as much as the first to worry about playing halo 3 and RARE has yet to produce since it was bought years ago, so its not like game exclusivity would hold me back.

Variation-XBA
04-13-2005, 09:47 PM
Remember pre PS2 when Sony said PS2 graphics would be indistinguishable from real movies? Yea... Hence why I don't care about specs, means nothing.

vman
04-14-2005, 01:37 AM
for those ppl who are confused about this high-tech talk, here is a link to explain Blue-Ray and HD-DVD:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dvd-comp.htm/printable

LynxFX
04-14-2005, 02:24 AM
for those ppl who are confused about this high-tech talk, here is a link to explain Blue-Ray and HD-DVD:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dvd-comp.htm/printable
Thanks for the link but unfortunately all of their information is dated by over a year. A lot has changed for both formats over the past year in terms of what codecs they support, manufacturing costs, media types. Blu-ray being teh one that has changed the most, and all for the better. Before HD-DVD had a clear advantage in the advanced codec they chose, but now that BR picked it as well all those advantages went out the window. Gone is also the cartriage for BR as well.

Best news of late is that Sony and camp are finally talking about trying to merge Blu-ray and HD-DVD into one format to avoid the impending format war. Better late than never, but they could have entered Blu-ray into the DVD Forum choices before the successor to DVD was picked in the first place. That's where this whole format war started.

If these talks go through and the format is redone it probably will delay the launch of the HD Optical format into 2006 or later and may change the drive that is in the PS3, or make the PS3 unable to play future HD Movies. If that's the case, they lose that big feature which they currently have over Xbox2.

E3 needs to get here fast! :)

vman
04-14-2005, 02:56 AM
ah, dude, i didnt know. to me, all of this was new so i naturally went to the site to answer some questions i had regarding the issue not knowing that the information was obsolete, rendering it invalid to our current discussion.....my bad. thanx for the update, bro.