Halo1 >=< Halo2 ** DEBATE **

[MikeMan91389]

There are many reasons I hate halo2. I am starting a CIVIL thread about it. Please list your 10 reasons why you like one or the other better. Its a DEBATE about HALO/2 In the HALO2 FORUM. My opinion is aloud.

1. You can go in to matchmaking, get a bad spawn, lose, and get made fun of by random shmucks that you could easily beat with real settings.
2. The Sword
3. The need to feel better than another. On xbc, you just go room to room win or lose its generally gg.
4. No server list. Personally, I wish there was a list with the hosts names, a description, and a join method. It would be sooo much better, honestly. Do it by region, i dont care. Dont force us to play your lame settings to get new faces to play against.
5. "Well send them a friend request" - ok, lets make MLG settings primary and then you can have smg start games w/ ppl on your friends list.
6. Bad Spawns - Don't get me wrong, halo1 had some bad ones, but you could defend yourself then.
7. Being completely set up, and the team spawns in the same room as you. wtf?
8. No nade jumping off host. wtf?
9. Bungie makes no recognition of MLG settings / the company, except that their settings are worse than smg start, wtf?
10. Promises that are repeatedly broken.
11. Melees- you lunge, doesnt hit them. People dont have to even be looking right at you, and can still lunge at you. Melees shouldnt slide you like a sword. they should have to be RIGHT there. think about it. Does throwing your arm forward make you move 3 feet forward? no, at least, i hope not.

Thats just a small start, not even the big reasons (in my book)

H1 > H2

[Wolf]

Im just waiting for h2fanbois to say stuff thats completely wrong (yet their opinion)

that doesn't even make sense...

[MikeMan91389]

yo- quit flaming my posts thrAsh.

Im trying to make a productive debate


tommorow - im going through the other threads, and taking out good points from other threads, h2 and h1. so, anything productive

[Darkside]

Ok. I"m pretty sure EVERYONE Gets the point. your killing hte fact that you and several other people HATE halo 2.

I myself do enjoy it. but still am very VERY angered about it. I'm not a critic, a game designer or anything, just an avid fan, and when people still ***** about this when its been out for so long, it gets annoying. I can see why everyone is *****ing because I feel the same way. Halo CE is better than Halo 2.

[Soundscape]

ofcourse i agree mike. but damn, why are you gving thrash a hard time?
and how the hell did his post disappear like that?

[Variation-XBA]

OHHhhhh I get it, you don't like Halo2.

I wish sword lunge range was decreased alot. Still have it powerfull, but not flying huge distances.

[TOTTEN]

Good idea sos

Burial mounds and coag are terrible maps by all means except prettiness and bungie seems to love putting them in matchmaking

The magnum is completely usless on its own or if dual wielding 2 magnums they still suck.

The combo

The levels arent for showing off or being a type of trophy yet there are leaderboards.

No halo ce pistol

the melees to melee halo 2 style image how good the aimbot is because it pretty much tracks you unless you jump to the side and get lucky.

the sword

the ghost

the tanks

the shotgun is much improved since the update but still is crap compared to the halo shotgun

All the melee animation and recoil animations in halo were smooth and good looking they never got old to watch but the ones in halo 2 dont look half as good

the split screen is complete **** half of player ones gun is cut off




theres more but I need to leave some for other to post.

[MikeMan91389]

he sent me a meeannn pm.

also

darkside - just post things you think either way.

ill even pop in a few of my own


1. The sticky nades were improved (maybe not since the update, i dont like the destruction they cause, but im use to it), sticking someone became like getting a sweet headshot, not a once in every five games type thing
2. The update was amazing.
3. XBL - nuff said
4. More weapons that are usable, cept dual mags blow now, and a single mag is worse than a needler. haha
5. Dual Weilding - a pain in some aspects, and helpful in others

[Variation-XBA]

2. The update was amazing.
3. XBL - nuff said


I've enjoyed myself much more since the update as well from the subtle changes (mainly BR + nades)

[Darkside]

Ok...


1. I still think the grenades are weak
2. The pop-in graphics annoy the crap out of me.
3. XBL... the fact that you can't go into the arena things with a friend.
4. Lock on Rockets -... DIE.
5. not having the fuel rod in multiplayer.

[E Nomini Patri]

Don't player hate on Sam, thrAsh. :p

1. n00b-wielding - I get the weapons I want, head to my favored control point, and get killed by some wank with SMG/PR in a half-second. The ability to n00b-wield is like a way to compensate for sucking.
2. Sword - A weapon that allows n00bs to beat pros without any skill is a no brainer for removal (rockets are becoming pretty homo as well).
3. Matchmaking - Self explanatory.
4. SMGs - Spray and pray and gay.
5. Needlers - They're pink, they stink, and there aren't any good words that end with 'ink' to end this rant.
6. n00b-wielding - Explained above.
7. Not enough auto-aim - I rape with a sniper so it's no fair to everyone else. HAHA! ;)
8. Spawns - What a gip. Spawn camping sucked, but spawning in between two well equipped opponents on the sea wall at Zanzibar is sucky, too.
9. n00b-wielding - See number 6.
10. The HUD - Good god, take the radar off your view when it's disabled, and give us a health readout (and better location for the shield meter). Halo was perfect like that, besides having to flip your black button to see how many of what kind of grenades you had left. Showing both is a neat idea.

I hate n00b-wielding, let's allow sucky people to kill like the pros, but with weapons that aren't hard to use! The 10 things I listed are wankish and I can't stand nuBgie's (haha.) complete lack of understanding compared to what the made with Halo.

[MikeMan91389]

true about the shotgun - however, on a lan- it still terrorizes, its mostly just latency. plus they did some explaining about they tried to make it random or somthin on the bungie forums.

all in all, i hate the havok engine they used or whatever.

[Variation-XBA]

10. The HUD - Good god, take the radar off your view when it's disabled, and give us a health readout (and better location for the shield meter).

I always wondered myself, why not have that space viewable if it's not even being used.

[E Nomini Patri]

Exactly man, Bungie confuses me with Halo 2.

Why is the reticle for your weapon lowered? That makes it hard to see your targets because your damn gun is right next to it. What the crap made them do that?

[lax_defense]

What the hell guys, can't we all accept the fact that some of us dislike the game and stop whining about it?

[E Nomini Patri]

Not when we play it competitively. We will stop complaining when Bungie adds a Slayer Pro playlist like Halo had. But until then... MLG > MM.

[Darkside]

What the hell guys, can't we all accept the fact that some of us dislike the game and stop whining about it?


Yes we can.. some people choose not too.

[ramprider0]

I hate the field of view or vision.. or whatever its called, it seemed like you could see alot more at one time on your screen in Halo:CE than in Halo 2.

[Sam-XBA]

i really like it... a lot, i think it improves on the great original in many ways. a great game imo

[StudioAlex]

What the hell guys, can't we all accept the fact that some of us dislike the game and stop whining about it?Seriously. Apparently, you guys must love this game since you play it all the time and still come to a forum to talk about it.

[Xbox Owner]

the only thing i don't like is the inconsistancy with a bunch of weapons. other than that i don't mind anything. im actually kind of glad the halo pistol isn't in it.. it's too dominate. people complain about sword and noob combo... the pistol is just as strong.

[Soundscape]

im actually kind of glad the halo pistol isn't in it.. it's too dominate. people complain about sword and noob combo... the pistol is just as strong
yes, the pistol is definitely dominate, but when everyone starts out with one it's fair game and adds alot of balance to the game.

and people complain about the sword and combo because they take relatively little skill to use effectively, unlike the h1 pistol.






Apparently, you guys must love this game since you play it all the time and still come to a forum to talk about it.

as stated several times before...we play it because it's the best fps on xbl...not because we love it. it's not like i don't enjoy this game...just not near as much as i do halo 1. and obviously xbl is just alot better and more convenient than xbc.
and since we're members of this site and play the game, ofcourse we're going to come into this subforum and post while we're here.

[ll Mista GT ll]

Ok.... I like Halo 100% How it it! If that's how Bungie decided to make it, than that's ok... nobody is forcing the haters to play this game. Heck, play Doom 3 or Whatever else makes you happy. :)

Just saying... This is getting REALLY old.

[Soundscape]

look...those of us who see major flaws in this game don't try to tell you fanboys who are on bungie's nuts that your opinions are getting old everytime you praise the damn game. so don't even start with that crap. we're not going to stop posting our opinions just because you don't agree with us or are getting tired of it. just like you won't stop posting yours. so get over it, go play some gay-ass matchmaking, and spray your smg's.
rock on.

[Echoes]

You should'nt be bashing halo 2, its a game, you bought it, and no one is pointing a pistol to your head.

If you dun like it, dun play it. If you still play it and you dun like it, its either addiction problems or you do like it.

or you can stay in customs the whole time,

ps. there is a mlg setting in matchmaking, me and tot played it, its called Team Slayer Pro.

[Soundscape]

no one is 'bashing' the game. they're discussing it's flaws and what they dislike about it.
who said they didn't like playing the game? it was just said that it's not near as good as halo 1.

and i'm aware of slayer pro...but it's only in team training to my knowledge and not too common. it's not really a mlg gametype, though...but pretty close. i like the rifles, snipers, and slayer pro games..but everything else sucks hard...and those 3 are pretty rare compared to the rest. plenty of smg starts and duel-wielding, though.

[Ninjermy]

k, first of all I will agree to an extent that halo1 is better then halo2. But if there wasn't halo2 imagine how many people would be ****ing their pants and crying. So mabye the game wasn't perfect, boohoo. Mabye the guns are perfectly balanced. Boohoo. Mabye no one is perfect. Mabye bungie didn't want to release an identical version of halo1 again just "modified a little" so they took some risks. Some good and mabye some bad. But hey, if we didn't have halo2 none of us would be able to play Big Team Battle CTF games on Containment with each other, and I don't know about you guys but that is damn fun.

[thrAsher]

I'll flame where I want, Mike. And I wasn't player hating, Zero, just harshing on the kid because he decided to attack me in another thread.

But enough of that garbage. You know what the funny thing is, this same argument is going on at every board I go to, and everybody is whining about the same stupid ****.

It's a game, people. Play it or don't. It's one thing to discuss strategies, particular matches, weapon combos, etc., but to continually drag out the very dead, very old 'Halo 2 Sucks' horse and beat it into bits is borderline insanity. IT HAS BEEN DONE, PEOPLE!

If anything, the incessant Halo 2 chatter on every last damn board out there is one of the few things that make the game an utter chore for me to even consider playing anymore. Very few people are about having fun w/ the game, they're so concerned w/ their ranking, and whether people are cheating, and on and on ad nauseum. I can't wait until something comes along to dethrone Halo so people will STFU about this utterly average game.

:bang:

[SnoochyBoochy]

Agreed. I'm not losing any sleep over selling my copy of Halo 2. Halo 2's meh factor is off the charts.

Forums (gaming forums, more specifically) are forever going to be the place people go to ***** about games or anything else that suits them. I've even been guilty of this, with my "XBA's Dirty Rotten Leavers" thread, which I posted after a string of XBA members getting pissed and leaving SCPT games before they were over.

I tend not to ***** as much about gaming, just because I take it much less seriously than I used to. I swear, I used to eat, sleep and **** SCPT & Couter-Strike.

People have different tastes in games. I say game and let game. It's not really worth it to get your panties in a twist over something as unimportant as Halo 2. For serious, homies.

[Ghost]

i think that when somebody plays a game too much it backfires, take a break for a month then come back and play it.

[mattgame]

Ahhhhh, stop crying you bunch of whiners! Play it or don't. Write Bungie about your problems or credits.

[SnoochyBoochy]

I hope that "Banned" user title underneath MikeMan's name stays there for good. And he stays away from these forums for about the same amount of time.

[AlphaRaptor]

These dumb threads should be locked...

[Tony_Macaroni]

OK....no more .........AAAAAAAAAH

[rpgreligion]

Just play Ghost Recon 2. That's what I would do, if it didn't take so damn long to get into the games. I'll take a tactical shooter over your run of the mill FPS any day. :)

[Soundscape]

These dumb threads should be locked... how is this thread 'dumb'?

[E Nomini Patri]

The reason we keep complaining is because this game is better than any other, but there are several things that keep it from being perfect that Bungie can fix relatively easily. Yet, they refuse to listen to the feedback of people who are better at the game than the masses they listen to all the time. You don't develop track shoes for swimmers...

[FB-Gollum]

...yawn...oh wait, what was this topic? Oh yeah, I forgot, Halo 2 sucks, obviously, that's why millions can't stop playing....yawn, I'm going back to sleep, someone wake me when someone has something new/constructive to say.

[Soundscape]

...yawn...oh wait, what was this topic? Oh yeah, I forgot, Halo 2 sucks, obviously, that's why millions can't stop playing....yawn, I'm going back to sleep, someone wake me when someone has something new/constructive to say.
nice, dude...nice.

the only one's not being very constructive are the one's who have been soo vocal in regaurds to halo 2 being better than halo 1. but we have been plenty constructive in how h2's gameplay is not near as good as h1's.

nobody in this thread said the game sucks or that they did not enjoy playing it over xbl. obviously that is far from the truth. what has been said though, is that h2's gameplay sucks compared to h1's. i think even you realize this.



1. You can go in to matchmaking, get a bad spawn, lose, and get made fun of by random shmucks that you could easily beat with real settings.
2. The Sword
3. The need to feel better than another. On xbc, you just go room to room win or lose its generally gg.
4. No server list. Personally, I wish there was a list with the hosts names, a description, and a join method. It would be sooo much better, honestly. Do it by region, i dont care. Dont force us to play your lame settings to get new faces to play against.
5. "Well send them a friend request" - ok, lets make MLG settings primary and then you can have smg start games w/ ppl on your friends list.
6. Bad Spawns - Don't get me wrong, halo1 had some bad ones, but you could defend yourself then.
7. Being completely set up, and the team spawns in the same room as you. wtf?
8. No nade jumping off host. wtf?
9. Bungie makes no recognition of MLG settings / the company, except that their settings are worse than smg start, wtf?
10. Promises that are repeatedly broken.
11. Melees- you lunge, doesnt hit them. People dont have to even be looking right at you, and can still lunge at you. Melees shouldnt slide you like a sword. they should have to be RIGHT there. think about it. Does throwing your arm forward make you move 3 feet forward? no, at least, i hope not.

Burial mounds and coag are terrible maps by all means except prettiness and bungie seems to love putting them in matchmaking

The magnum is completely usless on its own or if dual wielding 2 magnums they still suck.

The combo

The levels arent for showing off or being a type of trophy yet there are leaderboards.

No halo ce pistol

the melees to melee halo 2 style image how good the aimbot is because it pretty much tracks you unless you jump to the side and get lucky.

the sword

the ghost

the tanks

the shotgun is much improved since the update but still is crap compared to the halo shotgun

All the melee animation and recoil animations in halo were smooth and good looking they never got old to watch but the ones in halo 2 dont look half as good

the split screen is complete **** half of player ones gun is cut off

1. n00b-wielding - I get the weapons I want, head to my favored control point, and get killed by some wank with SMG/PR in a half-second. The ability to n00b-wield is like a way to compensate for sucking.
2. Sword - A weapon that allows n00bs to beat pros without any skill is a no brainer for removal (rockets are becoming pretty homo as well).
3. Matchmaking - Self explanatory.
4. SMGs - Spray and pray and gay.
5. Needlers - They're pink, they stink, and there aren't any good words that end with 'ink' to end this rant.
6. n00b-wielding - Explained above.
7. Not enough auto-aim - I rape with a sniper so it's no fair to everyone else. HAHA!
8. Spawns - What a gip. Spawn camping sucked, but spawning in between two well equipped opponents on the sea wall at Zanzibar is sucky, too.
9. n00b-wielding - See number 6.
10. The HUD - Good god, take the radar off your view when it's disabled, and give us a health readout (and better location for the shield meter). Halo was perfect like that, besides having to flip your black button to see how many of what kind of grenades you had left. Showing both is a neat idea.

I hate n00b-wielding, let's allow sucky people to kill like the pros, but with weapons that aren't hard to use! The 10 things I listed are wankish and I can't stand nuBgie's (haha.) complete lack of understanding compared to what the made with Halo.

i think those posts were pretty 'constructive', and they make very good points. and that is just in this thread.
and i say 'yawn' to the same stupid posts that praise bungie and halo 2.

now go play some more smg starts or that all swords king of the hill stuff you like ;)

[Plewis]

halo 2 sucks because it isnt halo 1.

if that happened we'd say halo 2 sucks because its exactly like halo 1.

[ConceaLinShadow]

halo 2 sucks because it isnt halo 1.

if that happened we'd say halo 2 sucks because its exactly like halo 1.
I agree. Flame me all you want, but no matter what Halo 2 was there was always going to be complaints. If halo 2 was like halo 1, people would complain that bungie isnt creative or its just the same game with new maps or something to that extant. If they changed alot (which they did) people complain that they took out to much stuff. Sure, I like Halo and Halo 2, but if I get tired of one Ill play the other.

[l Maximus l]

I'll flame where I want, Mike. And I wasn't player hating, Zero, just harshing on the kid because he decided to attack me in another thread.

But enough of that garbage. You know what the funny thing is, this same argument is going on at every board I go to, and everybody is whining about the same stupid ****.

It's a game, people. Play it or don't. It's one thing to discuss strategies, particular matches, weapon combos, etc., but to continually drag out the very dead, very old 'Halo 2 Sucks' horse and beat it into bits is borderline insanity. IT HAS BEEN DONE, PEOPLE!

If anything, the incessant Halo 2 chatter on every last damn board out there is one of the few things that make the game an utter chore for me to even consider playing anymore. Very few people are about having fun w/ the game, they're so concerned w/ their ranking, and whether people are cheating, and on and on ad nauseum. I can't wait until something comes along to dethrone Halo so people will STFU about this utterly average game.

:bang:


thrAsher...you're missing the entire point. You have to remember that there are actually people in existence that are hardcore fans of Halo CE. Ever see the lines outside the theatres when the latest Star Wars Movie? I'm not a die hard fan of Star Wars, though, I do like it...but, I am not naive of the fact that they do exist...just like hardcore fans of Halo exist.

The reason why there are forum boards trashing Halo 2 is because of several reasons. The main reason is because Halo 2 was thought of being an upgrade of what Halo CE is. Basically, people expected a slew of new multi-player maps, XBL compatibility, a grip of new weapons, a plethora of new custom game options, and a few new vehicles. But, instead we got a completely different game that took peices of the original, added twists and a ridiculous amount of changes...and built on a completely different game engine. Now, pardon me and every other hardcore Halo fan for being upset and disappointed.

To hardcore Halo CE fans, Halo was much more than "just a game". It actually nursed hardcore fan's competetive lifestyles, it made us travel miles and miles to join tournaments, organize social events like LAN parties and play for hours upon hours...all night if our bodies let us. In the minds of hardcore Halo CE fans, Halo 2 was expected to continue this pop culture phenominon; however, instead it doesn't even come close to the original...it's as if EA made the game or something. This was completely unexpected. Now, if you can't understand after this explanation, then, get the hell out of the Halo forums.

[l Maximus l]

I agree. Flame me all you want, but no matter what Halo 2 was there was always going to be complaints. If halo 2 was like halo 1, people would complain that bungie isnt creative or its just the same game with new maps or something to that extant. If they changed alot (which they did) people complain that they took out to much stuff. Sure, I like Halo and Halo 2, but if I get tired of one Ill play the other.


I disagree, if Halo 2 was like Halo CE, no one would complain...because if they did, they would be slapped up by all the hardcore fans. It would be socially unacceptable to talk trash about Halo 2...that is, again, if it was like Halo CE. But, it's not, so, trash Halo 2 all you want :cuss:

[Soundscape]

yeah, peyrok..i have to disagree man. if halo 2 was halo:ce with just new maps i'd be very thankful. and i don't see how there would be near as much complaining as there is now because it would be a much better and more balanced game.
and i wouldn't be posting on an internet forum right now...i'd be playing halo 2.

[l Maximus l]

and i wouldn't be posting on an internet forum right now...i'd be playing halo 2.

So true, man...so so true.

[E Nomini Patri]

I might be going to MLG Seattle in September so I care that there are things wrong with the game because I will be getting ripped off left and right when I need it the least. Melee lunges never ****ing work, the sword never ****ing works, they are not skill based anymore, but luck based. It's luck whether or not your melee lunge will connect. As well as the sword. It's ridiculous.

[Madhattr]

I agree. Flame me all you want, but no matter what Halo 2 was there was always going to be complaints. If halo 2 was like halo 1, people would complain that bungie isnt creative or its just the same game with new maps or something to that extant. If they changed alot (which they did) people complain that they took out to much stuff. Sure, I like Halo and Halo 2, but if I get tired of one Ill play the other.

Well said, you can't please everyone and I am sure bungie knows that lesson well. I am sure they don't give a rats ass though, hundreds of thousands play Halo 2 and yes it is god damn fun!

[l Maximus l]

I might be going to MLG Seattle in September so I care that there are things wrong with the game because I will be getting ripped off left and right when I need it the least. Melee lunges never ****ing work, the sword never ****ing works, they are not skill based anymore, but luck based. It's luck whether or not your melee lunge will connect. As well as the sword. It's ridiculous.

Dude, you so need to join me at Halo2sucks.com :whistle:

[l Maximus l]

Well said, you can't please everyone and I am sure bungie knows that lesson well. I am sure they don't give a rats ass though, hundreds of thousands play Halo 2 and yes it is god damn fun!

That's because Halo 2 is the best FPS on the XBox Live...but, most people agree that if Halo CE was on XBox Live, many of those people wouldn't be playing Halo 2.

Even you have to admit that Halo 2 is not the same phenominon that Halo CE was. I don't of a single person that puts together all night Halo 2 LAN parties, competetive tournaments using default starting weapons, and people that would drop anything to play Halo 2.

Halo CE was a pop culture phenominon. All people expected Halo 2 to be was an extension to Halo CE that had the same exact game physics but with a slew of new maps, a grip of new weapons, new custom gametypes, a bunch of new vehicles (Snow Warthog, ATV, Transporter Warthog, etc etc etc), a step up in the graphics, and XBL compatibility...but, instead we got Halo 2, a game completely built from the ground up using the Havok engine that changed the physics and screwed up the entire game. It's as if EA or some other company came in and possessed the bodies of Bungie Employees and released the P.O.S. game that we all know by the name of "Halo 2". It's a complete disappointment and it has to rank high as one the biggest let downs in gaming history.

[Dr BoNBoNz]

[QUOTE=l It's a complete disappointment and it has to rank high as one the biggest let downs in gaming history.[/QUOTE]

So very true. When I was waiting in line with about 1,000 people on November 9th to get my copy of Halo 2 you just got to see what HALO really did to the gaming scene. There were MOMS there waiting to get a copy of Halo 2, not for their kids but for themselves. Halo was more than a pop culture phenomenon... it was a freaking gift from God himself. I can honestly say that I NEVER owned another Xbox game besides Halo 1. What was the need? What game was more fun and intense than 2vs2 ts games on HH or dammy? What was more fun than coming out of invis room on Chilly and picking up the snipe and and zooming in as you go around the corner to rock room and getting a head shot on a guy? Halo 2 does not compare in the least bit to Halo in a competitive sense. Halo 2 is sooo noobified that it just competely ruins the intensity that Halo 1 had. That and the physics engine. The Halo 1 physics engine was unlike any other ever created for a FPS. The motions are so fluid-like and so realistic that it just puts the Halo 2 physics engine to shame. And the map-design of Halo 2 is absolutely disgusting. I dont even want to talk about that.

Unban SonofSam2.

[Madhattr]

First Halo:CE will NEVER be on XBL so why even bother? Halo 1 was great yes, but I would have to say most of it's greatness came from the fact it was first. I they had put out Halo 2 first I am sure it would have been just as popular.

And ofcourse no one puts together Halo 2 Lans because of the thousands of people ready to play a mere few seconds away.

Calling Halo 2 a "complete disappoinment" is absurd to say the least. This game was hyped to godly proportions, no game could match up to those expectations. Don't sit there and tell me you don't play Halo 2 for hours, you do because it is a great game. No other FPS compares to the experience that Halo 2 offers.

I don't see how you think they "screwed up the whole game" I played Halo CE on XBC and Halo 2 feels near identical. Sure it has different tweeks but it is it's own game, it isn't some Halo CE update.

The biggest problem people have is the loss of the pistol which was a great decision by bungie. I am glad most of the time (maybe not on coag) that it is gone, Halo ce was good but pistol battles get old after you stand on a tower for 20 minutes sniping people with the same gun and people weilding the same weapon over and over playing blood gulch 50 times in a row.

In fans minds the sequels never match up to the original and people will complain no matter what you put out after the first game.

[Soundscape]

I played Halo CE on XBC and Halo 2 feels near identical.
wow...how long has it been since you've played halo 1? maybe you should go play halo 1 again and then see if you still agree with that statement. because i played H1 for the first time in about 8 months the other day...and it felt much different(better) than halo 2.

i immediately noticed that there was much less auto aim than there is in H2. and the whole game in general just feels and looks so much more fluid and smooth than halo 2...like someone said...the character movements are just more realistic for the most part.
plasma and frags do the same amount of damage(except when stuck), which is the way it should be.
most of the h1 maps are much better than H2's. not neccesarily the graphics, but in the way they are designed. and no fall damage at all is just stupid.

starting with the H1 pistol is SOOOOOOOOOOO much better than starting with just an smg. it adds a lot of balance to the game. and it keeps other weapons like rockets and sniper from being too dominant since it is capable of a relatively quick 3 shot kill. you aren't as vunerable after a spawn like you are in h2. plus you don't have to waste valuable time in objective games going after a decent weapon when time is running out.

alot of h2 is determined by luck...luck of the spawns...who's able to get the power weapons before the other team. and once you have them you can pretty much just dominate since there's no 3sk pistol and since the power weapons aren't on a timer. there seems to be a lot more camping in halo 2.

and the starting spawns and spawns in general can just be rediculous sometimes. i'm tired of spawning in the middle of two or three people's crossfire, or spawning on the opposite side of the map from my team. or how about spawning out in the middle of coag and big maps like that?


so do you guys see how much more balanced and better halo 1 is yet? if not i suggest you go play a little halo 1 again, because i think it should be obvious to anyone who has played both.




come on, madhattr...if you think h1 and h2 plays almost identicle then you're really kidding yourself. here's some pretty noticeable differences just of the top of my head.

1. melees don't lunge and home in from 5 feet away in h1. you have to actaully aim at the person in order to hit them with a melee, and they are CONSISTANT, unlike h2's melees which are inconsistant as hell.
2. h2 in general is pretty inconsistant and random....1 frag deaths!? grenades that are thrown right before you die that disapear or just do not expload. getting suicides when you actually didn't.. like when people get suicides after being stuck by a plasma nade sometimes. i've seen people walk directly over my stickies without taking any damge in h2, and i have also stuck people that received no damage from it. i never seen any of these things happen in h1.
3. there's no sword in h1, and the shotty is h2 sucks pretty badly and still fires a random number of pellets...
4. the PP's tracking in halo 2 is insane, and it destroys an overshield and normal shield in one shot.
5. powerups are not as effective as in h1
6. power weapons in h1 are on a timer unlike on most maps in h2.
7. melee's and plasma nades are quite a bit more powerful in h2..a little overpowered, imo..but better than much before when they were way too weak.
8. duel wielding (ghey)
9. in h2weapons and power ups cant really be blown to you by grenades without the assistance of fusion cores, and even then it doesn't work too great.
10. sniping is easier in halo 2
11. auto-aim doesn't f*ck up your shot/aiming in halo 1 like it can in halo 2.
12. and i'm pretty sure in halo 1 you run a little faster and strafe quite a bit quicker.
ect., ect.




In fans minds the sequels never match up to the original and people will complain no matter what you put out after the first game.
the sequal would have surpassed the original if they had just upgraded the graphics, made some new maps, and put it on xbl. but they totally screwed up by changing the whole physics engine and noobifying the game soo much.

[Xx_Halo 2_xX]

Well If Yu Guys Dont Like Halo 2 Then Dont Play It You Losers!!! And Especially Dont Tke It Out On The Peaopl Who Do Like It

[vman]

Well If Yu Guys Dont Like Halo 2 Then Dont Play It You Losers!!! And Especially Dont Tke It Out On The Peaopl Who Do Like It
This Thread Is Meant To Be A Debate. If You Can't Handle It Then I Suggest That You Don't Post Here, In This Thread.

Here's my take.
I noticed Halo2's inferiority from the start. I was like "this sux" and "they changed the ENTIRE game, WTF!?" Then I heard one of my friends (who happend to be a less than average player at HaloCE) say "give it a chance." From then on, I knew it would never match up to halo. If you have to give a game a chance, then it obviously isn't an extremely good game like halo is. I mos def believe that halo2 is based on mostly chance. Very little skill is involved. ever since the update, that has changed considerably, but still, without the BR start, its a very n00b friendly game. Remember that friend I spoke of earlier? He is OBSESSED with the sword. That is his weapon of choice and when he has it, he keeps it out like an idiot. This only proves the n00bish style of gameplay that halo2 brings.

The ONLY reason why I play Halo2 is because I am able to play it on LIVE. Like many have said before, if HaloCE was put on LIVE, I would be playing that. Maximus mentioned before what halo2 was supposed to be. (haloCE with new maps, vehicles, weapons, and LIVE) That is what I was expecting and I too was let down from the beginning. Halo2 is a fun game, I don't "hate" it. But it is no sequel. It is a totally different game. I really like halo2 but HaloCE is 5 times better, hands down.

[m4oH]

Take soundscape's post, paste it in mine and there you go. halo 2 simply feels like a different game.

[Madhattr]

You know what, this argument is completely pointless, I will not be drawn into this discussion ever again! We could go around and around until the end of time.

[MikeMan91E89]

its only pointless because of the onslaught of idiots posting in here. hell, i even posted the things i felt were improved in halo2.

You know what, this argument is completely pointless, I will not be drawn into this discussion ever again! We could go around and around until the end of time.

Well If Yu Guys Dont Like Halo 2 Then Dont Play It You Losers!!! And Especially Dont Tke It Out On The Peaopl Who Do Like It

...yawn...oh wait, what was this topic? Oh yeah, I forgot, Halo 2 sucks, obviously, that's why millions can't stop playing....yawn, I'm going back to sleep, someone wake me when someone has something new/constructive to say.

I don't see how you think they "screwed up the whole game" I played Halo CE on XBC and Halo 2 feels near identical. - bull****.. play halo2 for 5 hrs, go on halo1, grab the invis, try to do the jump to the rock under the rocket in hangem high, then jump to grab the rocket from underneath, all in a fluid motion, you won't do it your first time, and if you do, you couldnt repeat it. The simplest things in halo1 are hard after playing on the halo2 engine, trust me.


*** Notice the nonconstructive posts are from the kids that say this thread is pointless. its only pointless because of your posts, you ****ing dolts.

[m4oH]

Halo 2 sucks. We shouldn't need an arguement/debate forum over that. It screams homosexuality right when you turn it on.

[Soundscape]

Madhattr = Owned

YOUR argument is the one that's completely pointless. you just owned yourself by saying that both halos feel nearly identicle. that was about as stupid as what you said about the H1 pistol that's in Scorpion's sig.

if you're not drawn into these discussions anymore that would be great, because it sounds like you don't know wtf you're talking about...and you're wrong.

halo 1 > halo 2

[wbio]

Halo 2 sucks. We shouldn't need an arguement/debate forum over that. It screams homosexuality right when you turn it on.
Ok, see, this is the type of post you can say, "Well don't play it if it sucks so bad" to. If you just think it sucks as a game, not just compared to Halo:CE, then don't play it. Seriously, I hate eggs, so guess what? I don't eat them. If you just hate Halo 2, then don't play it, it's that simple. :confused:

[Soundscape]

it sucks compared to CE...it doesn't just flat out suck. allthough alot of things about the game are pretty bad.

[wbio]

it sucks compared to CE...it doesn't just flat out suck. allthough alot of things about the game are pretty bad.
Yes, I was just responding to his post, which mentioned nothing about Halo:CE, just how much Halo 2 sucked. Most everyone else has made it clear that they just mean that it sucks in comparison to Halo:CE, but it's still a good game. But apparently m4oh just thinks it flat out sucks, which makes me wonder why he played over ten games today :huh:

[Madhattr]

Madhattr = Owned

YOUR argument is the one that's completely pointless. you just owned yourself by saying that both halos feel nearly identicle. that was about as stupid as what you said about the H1 pistol that's in Scorpion's sig.

if you're not drawn into these discussions anymore that would be great, because it sounds like you don't know wtf you're talking about...and you're wrong.

halo 1 > halo 2

Thats sad you think you "owned" me, your comments haven't changed a thing. Congradulations you have babbled on about pointless **** longer then me, I guess Bungie must recognize all your great work and put Halo 1 on XBL right? WRONG you are still right where you were before, you accomplished nothing.

What I said in Scorpions sig is right, you damn near proved it yourself. Look at that video you posted in that other thread, they compared the PP/BR combo (n00b combo) to the pistol, and the TSK lost by 1.7 seconds. Ofcourse what they didn't compare was the fact that you spawn with a TSK EVERYTIME and you have to purposly hunt down a PP AND a battle rifle. Hell even I can tell which one I would rather have.

[MikeMan91E89]

no, because you cant tsk every time, even the pros couldnt tsk every time. your host, id win, with hardly any tsks. why? because tsks arent easy.

[Madhattr]

no, because you cant tsk every time, even the pros couldnt tsk every time. your host, id win, with hardly any tsks. why? because tsks arent easy.

No you cant but I bet it takes longer than 1.7 seconds to collect the PP and the BR.

I get the 1.7 seconds by comparing the average kill time of the Pistol (2 seconds) to the average kill time of the PP/BR (0.3 seconds).

[ScorpionX]

What I said in Scorpions sig is right, you damn near proved it yourself. Look at that video you posted in that other thread, they compared the PP/BR combo (n00b combo) to the pistol, and the TSK lost by 1.7 seconds. Ofcourse what they didn't compare was the fact that you spawn with a TSK EVERYTIME and you have to purposly hunt down a PP AND a battle rifle. Hell even I can tell which one I would rather have.

No what you said in my sig is complete nonsense and you continue to make no sense once again.

So lets get a few things straight because some things you don't seem to understand:

A newbie or novice is somebody who is relatively new to something, such as Halo the game. Naturally, a newbie will struggle until they progress and get better through experience

With that said, please explain to me how the pistol is a newb weapon. It is a challenging task to land a three shot kill, not even the experts can pull one off everytime. It took months to even get you aim down, and many more to utilize the three shot kill. And I played XBC for nearly 3 years and I still wouldn't consider my pistol god-like, so you don't learn a tsk overnight like you claim.

Now lets look at the combo. Lets see, you let the massive auto-aim in Halo 2 guide the burst to your opponent, you switch weapons, and sweep your BR across their head. It is not a hard task, anyone with two working hands can pull it off relatively easy. My damn noob friends can do this to me everytime, and they know its nothing special.

And once again you claim you are right....... and in that process you manage to make 0 sense why you are right. You don't spawn with a TSK EVERYTIME, you have to get 3 clean shots to their head. So you are saying the combo takes more skill because you have to go and get the guns? Your posts never cease to amaze me Madhattr, I think Cityson made more sense than you. Never thought I'd say that :watchout:

[Nurb]

Halo 2 was bungie's attempt to fix something that wasn't broken. Halo 2 IS a good game, but its no Halo. Bungie didn't need to add dual wield, and no one would have complained if it wasn't added, though everyone can agree it changes the multiplayer in a way thats different from the first game. The same can be said for destructable vehicles.

The thing is that they tried SO hard to top the success of the first game, they didn't see that all of this 'stuff' wasn't nessicary and ended up with a game thats pretty much like all the others. The graphics, while downgraded from the E3 unvieling, made the levels smaller than in the first game, and I bet that even if the graphics were only a little better than Halo, everyone would have still loved it.

Ah well, I play through Halo once a month, while I still have yet to copmlete Halo 2 after buying it on release. Live play was great for a month, but it got boring with the cheaters and *******s

[FB-Gollum]

XBA Poster # 1: Halo 2 sucks ****...here's my list of 25 reasons why!

XBA Poster # 2: No it doesn't! Those reasons are BS!

XBA Poster #1: You're a noob! You must not have played Halo CE cause if you did you'd know the GAMEPLAY IS BETTER cause it takes SKILL...Here's 25 more reasons why...(which have already been posted in umpteen threads on umpteen different forums like the first 25)

XBA Poster #2: Well if it sucks so much why do you keep playing then?

XBA Poster #1: {repeat ad nauseaum}

...still sleeping. Wake me when something NEW gets said.

[ScorpionX]

Great post Nurb


And heres a novel idea Gollum: Stay the hell out of these threads if your going to ***** about them. No one is forcing you to post in here and if you must try to add some thought to it dumbass.

[Madhattr]

You don't spawn with a TSK EVERYTIME, you have to get 3 clean shots to their head. So you are saying the combo takes more skill because you have to go and get the guns? Your posts never cease to amaze me Madhattr, I think Cityson made more sense than you. Never thought I'd say that :watchout:

Oh really? you don't spawn with a pistol (TSK) everytime in Halo CE? Thats funny I don't remember spawning without one. And yes the PP/BR takes longer to kill with because of the simple fact that you have to actually collect 2 weapons to make it effective. If you spawned with it every life yes then they could be compared as equals. That video is like comparing the rockets to the pistol.
If you don't understand this I give up, you're a lost cause.

[vman]

I smell a misunderstanding between hatter and scorp on what a 'TSK' is. :rolleyes:

XBA Poster # 1: Halo 2 sucks ****...here's my list of 25 reasons why!

XBA Poster # 2: No it doesn't! Those reasons are BS!

XBA Poster #1: You're a noob! You must not have played Halo CE cause if you did you'd know the GAMEPLAY IS BETTER cause it takes SKILL...Here's 25 more reasons why...(which have already been posted in umpteen threads on umpteen different forums like the first 25)

XBA Poster #2: Well if it sucks so much why do you keep playing then?

XBA Poster #1: {repeat ad nauseaum}

...still sleeping. Wake me when something NEW gets said.
Good job, gollum. Now that you can identify a debate when you see one, maybe you can also try to contribute rather than adding another post that just makes it a hinderence to scroll down futher to get to a post thats actually worth reading.

Hatter, what takes more skill? Getting 3, virtually unaided shots, to hit your opponent straight in the head for a kill......or charge a PP, let go of the trigger and have an extremely aided mass of green blob (that has been known to TURN CORNERS) and whip out another well aided weapon and get only 1 shot in the head? If you ask me, i think getting a pistol kill is much more skillful (and much more gratifying) than getting a kill handed to you by the miracle of auto-aim. sure, a kill is a kill in the end but when it comes down to it, skill is better than mere luck. Hatter, i do not understand your logic and although i do not agree with what you say, i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[Madhattr]

Ok this is the last way I am going to explain myself.
I am refering to this video...
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=h2in

They compare the kill time of the pistol (TSK) and the PP/BR. What they don't consider is the fact you don't SPAWN with a PP/BR combo. Thus making the pistol much much faster of a kill time.

[l Maximus l]

First Halo:CE will NEVER be on XBL so why even bother? Halo 1 was great yes, but I would have to say most of it's greatness came from the fact it was first. I they had put out Halo 2 first I am sure it would have been just as popular.

Halo 1 was great for what it was. The introduction of Halo 2 took out many of the elements that made Halo 1 so great like fall damage, flipping vehicles with grenades, supberb gameplay, tiny hit boxes, no auto-aim, ability to carry a flag while driving a vehicle, crashing vehicles together and one flipping like a mofo instead of just crashing and blowing up, no target tracking on the rocket launcher, ability to jump out of a moving vehicle, ability to enter a vehicle from any angle and not squared up to the driver's seat or entrance. There are a slew of problems with Halo 2 (tons more than I just named off of the top of my head just now) and even Bungie knows this with every automatic update. They rushed Halo 2 and made the damn game in 8 months even when they had 3 years.

And ofcourse no one puts together Halo 2 Lans because of the thousands of people ready to play a mere few seconds away.

It would happen. The ability to play Halo CE on XBox Live would definately be sweet, but, playing all night with bunch of skilled buddies for hours on end is just as bad ass, if not better. In Halo 2, there are constantly poor losers, screaming cry babies, racists, and complete ass clowns.

Calling Halo 2 a "complete disappoinment" is absurd to say the least. This game was hyped to godly proportions, no game could match up to those expectations. Don't sit there and tell me you don't play Halo 2 for hours, you do because it is a great game. No other FPS compares to the experience that Halo 2 offers.

First and foremost, I don't play Halo 2 for hours, so, let me get that out of the way. In fact, today is 5/13/05 and I have played 5 full games since the latest automatic update. I have had plenty of opportunities to play, but, I simply am not motivated to play...it sucks that bad. Next, how can you say that it's absurd that my claim that Halo 2 is a "complete disappointment"? Are you kidding me? Halo 2 is a completely different game than Halo CE. Halo 2 is Halo CE's crippled cousin when myself and hundreds of thousands of people were simply expecting Halo 2 to be the same as Halo CE but with XBL compatibility, updated graphics, a slew of new maps, a grip of custom game options, and a garage full of new vehicles. But, instead, Halo 2 changed a lot of physics of the game and implemented the Havok engine. They built the game from the ground up! WTF!?! What happened to the old saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Oh, and Halo CE kicks the hell out of Halo 2.

I don't see how you think they "screwed up the whole game" I played Halo CE on XBC and Halo 2 feels near identical. Sure it has different tweeks but it is it's own game, it isn't some Halo CE update.

It feels "near identical"? Seriously, dude...you must have played Halo CE while overdosed on codine and then played Halo 2 sober to have that kind of conclusion. Halo 2 is extremely different than Halo CE. A few tweaks? Oh man, I could write a book on the amount of "tweaks" Bungie did to change the game.

The biggest problem people have is the loss of the pistol which was a great decision by bungie. I am glad most of the time (maybe not on coag) that it is gone, Halo ce was good but pistol battles get old after you stand on a tower for 20 minutes sniping people with the same gun and people weilding the same weapon over and over playing blood gulch 50 times in a row.

First and foremost, plenty of weapons can take out a person carrying a pistol in Halo CE. What made the Halo CE pistol so great was the room for improvement was so dramatic. A person had to be precise to out shoot an opponent of skill. Honestly, I truly believe this when I say this, but, if a person complains about the Halo CE pistol, it's extremely likely that they sucked at it and got owned quite often.

In fans minds the sequels never match up to the original and people will complain no matter what you put out after the first game.

I completely disagree. I can list a slew of games that had sleeper hit originals only to be crushed by its sequel.

[l Maximus l]

Ofcourse what they didn't compare was the fact that you spawn with a TSK EVERYTIME and you have to purposly hunt down a PP AND a battle rifle. Hell even I can tell which one I would rather have.

You seriously have to be a Kool-Aid mustache sporting 10 year old to make a claim like that. A person spawns with a three shot kill with the Halo CE pistol every time? I don't know a single hardcore Halo CE fan that would ever make the claim that they always get three shot kills every single time.

You obviously get owned with a pistol a lot when playing Halo CE to make a comment like that. Wow... :rofl:

[FB-Gollum]

Good job, gollum. Now that you can identify a debate when you see one, maybe you can also try to contribute rather than adding another post that just makes it a hinderence to scroll down futher to get to a post thats actually worth reading.



Alright, for you, scorp, and everyone else that misses the point of my post, I'll spell it out to you ****tards. STUPID THREADS LIKE THIS ARE RUINING THIS FORUM. This debate is so tired it needs to go to sleep forever. Nothing new is being said. Scroll back and you'll find 20 other 20 page threads that all say exactly the same goddamn thing.

Contribute to the debate? I did. More so than you *******, many times on many threads. I've been a prime player in the HCE vs. H2 debate. However, I've said all I can on this. You have 2 sides, neither of which is going to give an inch, repeating the same arguments over and over and over, with no headway being made.

It's ****ing pointless and it's dragging this forum down when we could be discussing good things. Organizing more games amongst members, discussing strategies for different maps and gametypes. Posting up resources for people who want ot learn more. These things do get posted, but they get lost under the weight of the vitriolic 100+ post uber ****ing redundant "H2 vs HCE" "debate". Believe, I call it a debate loosely as VERY FEW POINTS BEING MADE ACTUALLY EFFECTIVELY RESPOND TO ANYTHING ELSE BEING SAID BY ANYONE.

Anyhoo, at the end of the day I'm not a censor. You guys can discuss this all you want. I am a member of this forum though, and I feel the need to express my discontent at the direction these forums have been heading.

Please, don't have the gall in future to say I'm not being constructive. I have been constructive in the past in these debates. It's gotten to a point where the debate itself is no longer constructive due to it's inability to make any progress.

[m4oH]

HERE IS THE MAIN REASON WHY I FIND HALO 2 TO BE TERRIBLE:

It is all about weapon control. In Halo CE the power weapons respawned and one team didn't completely pwn with them. I mean you basically have to make the other team use up all their ammo (by killing you) and then drop the gun. By the time you have a decent gun, it's too late to come back.

[Madhattr]

You seriously have to be a Kool-Aid mustache sporting 10 year old to make a claim like that. A person spawns with a three shot kill with the Halo CE pistol every time? I don't know a single hardcore Halo CE fan that would ever make the claim that they always get three shot kills every single time.

You obviously get owned with a pistol a lot when playing Halo CE to make a comment like that. Wow... :rofl:

Are you honestly this dense? Did you even watch the video??? They reffered to the pistol as a "TSK". FOR A SECOND TIME no you don't always get a three shot kill but it still only takes an average of 2 seconds to kill someone with the pistol.

Understand the posts before you start shooting off your uninformed mouth.

[ScorpionX]

Madhattr you honestly are clueless, I guess I will have to break this down for you. This arguement started with this quote from you, because you believe that the combo takes more skill

I am going to have to say Halo 1 is by far easier. Anyone can pick up a pistol and after a night of playing be damn accurate. I am not saying it was less fun just less challenging. The pistol was the biggest "n00b" weapon if ever one was invented.

Now lets take a few steps back and define skill, since you obviously have no idea what it is

skill
n.

1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.

Now lets take a look at how much skill a combo takes versus the pistol.

Combo- Charge the PP, let auto-aim hit your opponent. Whip out your BR and swipe it across their head for the kill.

Pistol- Land two unassisted shots to a stafing player, then finish then with a 3rd to the head. There is no auto-aim and no homing. This takes a great amount of skill, as you have to learn to utilize it through experience.

The pistol simply takes more skill. Ask anybody here which is harder to pull off. And find someone who actually believes the combo is hard to utilize. I do not understand why
you cannot comprehend this.

They compare the kill time of the pistol (TSK) and the PP/BR. What they don't consider is the fact you don't SPAWN with a PP/BR combo. Thus making the pistol much much faster of a kill time.

Well sorry to break it to you but that still does not change the fact that the pistol takes more skill than the combo. And you obviously do not understand why they compared the kill times, because it just illustrates how anyone can pick up the combo and succeed.

[Soundscape]

Understand the posts before you start shooting off your uninformed mouth. and that's coming from the genius who said halo 1 and 2 feels almost identicle :rofl:


and gullom when the hell have you been 'contructive' in the halo vs halo 2 debate?
because i don't remember you making any valid points about how h2 is so great compared to halo 1. i asked you more than once in the "so it turns out halo 2 wasn't the equivalint of a god descending from the heavens" thread, but you could never respond with any decent/valid points. just like now.

so don't call us retards when we're the only ones in this "debate" that are making any sense.

[Douchesforfun]

When I say this I hope I am Speaking for the entire community!!!!!http://photos1.blogger.com/img/51/1402/1024/stfu-noob.jpg
Close this thread!!!!

[FB-Gollum]

and gullom when the hell have you been 'contructive' in the halo vs halo 2 debate?
because i don't remember you making any valid points about how h2 is so great compared to halo 1. i asked you more than once in the "so it turns out halo 2 wasn't the equivalint of a god descending from the heavens" thread, but you could never respond with any decent/valid points. just like now.


This is my point exactly right here. Go back and read that thread over. I made lots of valid constructive points, so did you, so did everyone else.

You chose to pay no attention to my points. They were made. They were ignored. Just like everyone else's point gets ignored.

Now we're going to restae all those valid points again. But once again make no progress.

Hence, by defintion it's not constructive.

[l Maximus l]

Are you honestly this dense? Did you even watch the video??? They reffered to the pistol as a "TSK". FOR A SECOND TIME no you don't always get a three shot kill but it still only takes an average of 2 seconds to kill someone with the pistol.

Understand the posts before you start shooting off your uninformed mouth.

First and foremost, I watched the video far before you did since it originated from Halo2sucks.com and I've been a member there for a while. An Average of 2 seconds? Give me a break, man. You obviously are the own being owned and are the stupid ass that stands in the middle of a large area, when playing Halo CE, trying to spray across a massive terrain with an Assault Rifle when someone pistol whips you to death. You're a n00b.

I'll take you on with Halo CE or Halo 2 and own your ass. Name the time and I'll be there just to hear you cry as your smash your XBox controller to the floor in frusteration and humiliation.

It takes a skilled player to take down a n00b with a pistol in less than 2 seconds. But, a pro versus another pro takes much longer....f-cking n00b.

[Soundscape]

This is my point exactly right here. Go back and read that thread over. I made lots of valid constructive points, so did you, so did everyone else.

You chose to pay no attention to my points. They were made. They were ignored. Just like everyone else's point gets ignored.

Now we're going to restae all those valid points again. But once again make no progress.

Hence, by defintion it's not constructive.

in that thread Madhattr claimed that halo 2 is a better and 'more well rounded' game than halo 1. when i asked him how it was better and more 'well rounded', he just refused to answer me. big surprise :rolleyes:
and you replied with this....
Consider this; Let's reverse roles. Let's say Halo 2 was a launch title. It had Halo CE's graphics, but the gameplay and physics model from Halo 2. You think we wouldn't have become obscenely addicted to that? Of course we would have, Halo 2 would have owned our lives just like Halo CE did. Because there's nothing else out there remotely as good. ecause it takes advantage of the system link feature in a way that no other game has. Because it's insanely fun and customizable and we'd have all tapped in to that over the course of the last 4 years.

Now let's say "Halo 2" gets released. Of course, Halo 2 is really Halo CE. What would we be saying? (remembering we've been playing nothing but Halo 2 for the last 4 years).

- Damn, this is lame! I can't jump worth ****!

- What the hell? I die every time I fall, so much for my super leap of faith flag runs and mid-air battles.

- Where's my dual wield? I can only use 1 plasma rifle? What's the point?

- What the hell happened to the grenades? The blast radius is SO big. I can get a kiltacular w/ 1 of them. They totally noobed it out.

- Why are all these bloody maps symmetrical? And WTF is with Chiron? (Ok, so maybe that one goes both ways)

- 3 hits to kill!?!?! This "Pistol" is SO NOOBED OUT. It zooms? I don't see a scope. And where the hell is the recoil? At least the BR recoiled.

There's so much more. The bottom line is we played one for so many years that any differences we're bound to meet with resistance and we're all still busy trying to forget what we know. If the above were the case, we'd have 6 million threads of Halo 2 > Halo CE.


i don't see those as valid points at all. let's go through each one....


- Damn, this is lame! I can't jump worth ****! you can jump realisticly in halo 1..like a spartan wearing a 100 pound(or howevermuch) suit of armor...not like you're wearing moon boots.



- What the hell? I die every time I fall, so much for my super leap of faith flag runs and mid-air battles. yeah, you should really be able to fall out of a banshee 150 yards in the air and receive no damage from it.



- Where's my dual wield? I can only use 1 plasma rifle? What's the point? wow...that's pretty funny. 'where's my duel wield?' lol.. might aswell say "where's my sword!?!"
the point is it took more aiming skill in halo 1 than duel wielding PR's in H2....obviously. you actually had to actually put your sights on the enemy..and it didn't home in like the H2 PR does to a slight extent.
and the bigger point is that it stunned your opponent....making him vunerable to being beat down/assasinated



- What the hell happened to the grenades? The blast radius is SO big. I can get a kiltacular w/ 1 of them. They totally noobed it out. i'll tell you whats blast radius is soo big and overpowered..the h2 plasma nades. in h1 a plasma takes down your hole shield if your near it when it goes off..just like a frag..and the way it should be. you only got a 1 nade kill if you stuck the person. in halo 1 it is harder to stick people, too. you actually have to hit the charcater model with the grenade...not just the huge hit box that surrounds the halo 2 character models.
and in h1 they flipped vehicles soo much better which makes those ctf games on blood gulch all the much better.



- Why are all these bloody maps symmetrical? And WTF is with Chiron? (Ok, so maybe that one goes both ways) yeah, h2's maps suck compared to h1's for the most part.



- 3 hits to kill!?!?! This "Pistol" is SO NOOBED OUT. It zooms? I don't see a scope. And where the hell is the recoil? At least the BR recoiled. yeah, three hits without the assistance of h2's massive auto aim...on much smaller hitboxes and player models. the fact that the scope wasn't shown is pretty trivial. and the BR has no recoil. the only weapon that has recoil is the smg, isn't it?


you also said this..
Halo 2 is better and more fun than Halo 1. There. I said it.
so please. just one time tell us how h2's gameplay is better than h1's.
it won't take you a few minutes just to list a few things when we have listed MANY.
i have yet to see anyone answer this question with any valid points...but yet you say that you have and we're just ignoring you. i'm not ignoring anything to my knowledge. so once and for all actually answer the question so we can put this crap to rest.


just admit it, guys.
Halo 1 > Halo 2
we all know it.
just admit it and we won't keep having to go through these 5 page threads just to prove that.

[FB-Gollum]

Reasons why H2's GAMEPLAY is better than H1:

- The situational awareness is greatly heightened. Due to not everyone using the same weapon.

- Far better weapon balance. (If you disagree with this point you are an idiot and don't understand what "balance" means).

- Superior map design leads to better ojective based gameplay.

- Toned down frag grenade leads to far less flukey nade kills. No more frag spam.

- BR takes longer to kill with than pistol. Makes battles longer and more intense.

Those are just a few this morning before I go to work. I can't believe you managed to drag me back in to this ****. Now watch as all my points are categorically denied with out a hint of actual debate. I'll then return to mocking this thread.

[Soundscape]

mocking doesn't accomplish anything and is a waste of space.

real quickly, though....


- The situational awareness is greatly heightened. Due to not everyone using the same weapon.
everyone wasn't using the one same weapon in halo 1. pistol, snipes, were used at mostly mid to long range... and AR, PR, rockets, and shotty at closer ranges. rocket was really used close to mid and long range, though.
those were all very common, and took more skill to use than their halo 2 counterparts.
i don't think weapons like the sword, carbine, duelwielding combos, and such cause more "situational awareness".
weapons like the PP combos duel wielding, and sword may lead to differences in gameplay..but definitely not for the better. those are all lame, and the game would be better without them.


Superior map design leads to better ojective based gameplay.
how are the map designs superior? i totally disagree. the only well designed maps are lockout and ivory tower..minus the swords and rocket. sanctuary is allright. zanzibar is a cool map..but not that well designed, imo. turf is not too bad.
halo 2's version of battle creek and blood gulch are pretty crappy compared to the originals.
derlict, damnation, chillout, longest, wizard, battle creek(am i fogetting any?) are all great maps...and were better designed than most halo 2 maps.


- Toned down frag grenade leads to far less flukey nade kills. No more frag spam. but what about plasmas? they are toned up quite a bit.
and no more frag spam!? you're definitely wrong there.
i couldn't count the number of times that i've died from a random grenade, or even just one frag when i have full shields. or how about when you go to throw a frag without realizing one has just been thrown near you and both explode in your face causing you to die instantly when alot of times otherwise you could've taken cover and regained shields. that kind of crap doesn't happen in H1.


- BR takes longer to kill with than pistol. Makes battles longer and more intense. a 3sk takes like what? ...a half second longer than a 4 sk? and was alot less common. doesn't make a big difference in that aspect.
duel wielding close range takes like a half second to kill someone...and is more common than BR shoot outs(for the most part in matchmaking). what about that?

[blonks]

how about you guys just respect the great game bungie made for us...
just because it didnt turn out the way YOU wanted it to, doesnt mean some poeple still find it freakin awesome

such typical XBA :rolleyes:

[Douchesforfun]

yeah, you should really be able to fall out of a banshee 150 yards in the air and receive no damage from it.
Actually you should, you are a spartan, not only trained in the most elite of forces but also biomechanically engineered to withstand massive amounts of damage, you are no fully human anyways so it's not like you have that weakness factor. Masterchief and all of the spartans are practically cyborgs so the fact that you even say this baffles me, plus the armor also probably has weight distribution for purpose of long falls.

[ghost 009]

how about you guys just respect the great game bungie made for us...
haha give me a ****ing break. don't start this ****, "repect the game bungie made for us". Actually pay attention the game. They didn't add in 90% of what they said they would.

[Soundscape]

they withstand massive ammounts of damge? like when 1 punch to the back of the leg instantly kills a spartan?
seriously, it makes no sense that a spartan fall from high as possible and sustain no damage at all. that's a little stupid.

and blonks...it's not a great game, imo. ....duel wielding, the sword, the gay PP combos, inconsistant shotty and melees, massive auto aim, huge hitboxes,matchmaking sucks, power ups suck now, the maps aren't that good, hackers getting modded xboxes online and into matchmaking, catered to people who suck, ect, ect.

face it, guys..this game is dumbed down.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

Actually you should, you are a spartan, not only trained in the most elite of forces but also biomechanically engineered to withstand massive amounts of damage, you are no fully human anyways so it's not like you have that weakness factor. Masterchief and all of the spartans are practically cyborgs so the fact that you even say this baffles me, plus the armor also probably has weight distribution for purpose of long falls.

I'm pretty sure that their bones are practically indestructible but their muscles will still receive damage.

[E Nomini Patri]

You can't use the storyline as an excuse for no fall damage. The only reason there is no fall damage is because the sword would make you lunge so fast that you'd hit the ground/wall and die. Bungie should have taken the hint that the sword should not be in the game because of that.

Here's a kickass example of why BRs take more skill than n00b-wielding. Dueling in the courtyard at Lockout. Two people, BRs only (no grenades or melees etc), overshields, and have them duke it out until the last man is standing. Okay, after imagining that, take the BRs and replace them with SMGs. Imagine what the battle would look like now. Which takes more skill?

The Battle Rifle.

[Wolf]

I can't belive you guys are arguing about the bone and muscle structure of a video game character.

[blonks]

I can't belive you guys are arguing about the bone and muscle structure of a video game character.


lol i know... its just a game... if you dont like it... just dont ****ing play the game!!!

[vman]

You can't use the storyline as an excuse for no fall damage. The only reason there is no fall damage is because the sword would make you lunge so fast that you'd hit the ground/wall and die. Bungie should have taken the hint that the sword should not be in the game because of that.

Here's a kickass example of why BRs take more skill than n00b-wielding. Dueling in the courtyard at Lockout. Two people, BRs only (no grenades or melees etc), overshields, and have them duke it out until the last man is standing. Okay, after imagining that, take the BRs and replace them with SMGs. Imagine what the battle would look like now. Which takes more skill?

The Battle Rifle.
in my mind, the BR battle looks more like a "battle." the smg thing looks like some kind of attraction at the carnival.

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

in my mind, the BR battle looks more like a "battle." the smg thing looks like some kind of attraction at the carnival.

Come one, come all! See the amazing farting gun!

[TOTTEN]

Reasons why H2's GAMEPLAY is better than H1:

- The situational awareness is greatly heightened. Due to not everyone using the same weapon.
????????

- Far better weapon balance. (If you disagree with this point you are an idiot and don't understand what "balance" means).
Yes people do use multiple weapons now which is good besides most of the time it turns into a who shoots first contest. The balance of fairness is lowered quite a bit. No spawning weapons often turn games into getting the power weapons getting a lead then hiding untill the games over. The weapons on alot of maps decides who wins. Thats garbage and not fun.

- Superior map design leads to better ojective based gameplay.
Halo 2 has great maps and it has terrible ones. In my opinion none of the halo:ce maps sucked. Halo 2 on the other hand has a couple very bad maps.

- Toned down frag grenade leads to far less flukey nade kills. No more frag spam.
Halo:ces grenades were perfect for Halo:ce. Halo 2s grenades are perfect for halo 2.
In halo:ce the grenades had to be still to blow up so the guy trying to evade the grenade had more time to run so the grenades had to have a big blast radius. In halo 2s grenades blow up after like 2 seconds after they hit the ground they blow up faster so they dont need a big blast radius.

- BR takes longer to kill with than pistol. Makes battles longer and more intense.
The BR doesnt have they range to fight snipers on big maps and doesnt take half as much skill to use as a pistol. The BR battles still are intense I wont deny that.

Those are just a few this morning before I go to work. I can't believe you managed to drag me back in to this ****. Now watch as all my points are categorically denied with out a hint of actual debate. I'll then return to mocking this thread.
Cant wait to play with you again buddy :cheers:

[Soundscape]

heh..

lol i know... its just a game... if you dont like it... just dont ****ing play the game!!! but we do like it, man...just not near as much as halo 1.

[rolling stone]

i like what maximus said about halo being a game that had a following of hardcore fans and playing was almost a part of your lifestyle, he really captured my feelings dead-on. i remember that 3-4 days a week that it was a given that my little brother and me would have people over after school or whatever to play system link for hours on end, and it NEVER got boring- that went on for over a year, it was always great.

it's the people that were intensely into halo ce that are the most disappointed by halo 2, and rightly so; they took a game that had addicting gameplay, awesome maps, that required SKILL, a game that with the right people was fun, competitive, and would keep you playing for hours. if you had a great shot you felt good about it and maybe talk **** to your buddy. i feel that bungie took all of these things away from halo 2.... i don't want to repeat myself on the other threads about halo disappointments, but the auto-aim is ****ing ridiculous...i don't even feel good about most kills i get. i remember playing match-making and just beating the **** out of guys with the combo and swoop sniping and feeling guilty about it. the rocket lock-on, the sword lunge, the crappy ending- errrr the lack of an ending...the list goes on. bungie wants money for the maps? puh-leaze. they need to quit making maps and stop throwing out updates to try and make the game suck less and get started on halo 3. they also better be thinking hard about how not to **** this one up. they have a lot of fans to win back... when halo 2 came out nobody hesitated to buy it, and most of us stood in lines outside gamestop/eb games, but i think that some of us may actually be hesitant about getting halo 3 right away.

i played halo 2 once over the last 2 1/2 months and i don't miss it one bit. a few years ago during my obsession with halo i couldn't wait to get home to play it, but i have absolutely no motivation to play halo 2.

splinter cell, on the other hand...:)

-edit- it's late, fixed my bad spelling/grammar

[Wolf]

heh..

but we do like it, man...just not near as much as halo 1.


ok, great, but why must we continue to talk about it so much?

I think the reason people think you guys don't like the game is because we talk about the negatives a LOT.

[Dr BoNBoNz]

I think the reason people think you guys don't like the game is because we talk about the negatives a LOT.

Well... probably because there are NO postitve things to say about HALO 2.

[-Natas-]

I will not say that Halo 2 sucks but I was disappointed with it and I'll explain why.

- There is no real skill needed to play this game. You just need to get to the good weapons for each map before your enemy.

- The game is very unbalanced when it comes to weapons which was made worse by the patch.

- The maps are not designed well and there are no where near enough of them.

- Matchmaking is the worst idea ever, you can get the same map over and over again. Why not just have standard optimatch setup.

- Ranking does not really tell how good one is at the game as you can play 100 games of Rumble pit and not win a single game but you'll still rank up.

- The drop in graphics was a bad idea as it just makes the game look bad for a couple seconds. I would rather have a small load time and get all the graphics loaded in at once.

- The single player is just bad. Short levels, bad ending, and the whole single player is just really short. It feels as if bungie just threw some stuff together as they knew people would buy it since it had the Halo name on it.

I could go on but you get the point. Before someone tells me that if I do not like the game that I should not play it, I'll tell you that I have been playing the game recently. I'll probably not play it again till all the new maps go free. I'm not a huge Halo fan in the first place but I'll take Halo CE over Halo 2 anyday. Halo CE actually requires you to have some skill unlike Halo 2.

[TOTTEN]

- The game is very unbalanced when it comes to weapons which was made worse by the patch.

I agree with you except for this. The improved melees and grenades helped stop alot of the power weapon camping.

[Wolf]

Well... probably because there are NO postitve things to say about HALO 2.


well if that's a fact, as you seem to think it is, then why do the people like the guy I quoted in my earlier post claim to actually like halo2? how can you like a game with no positive aspects?

[blonks]

lets just face it people... you fell for the hype.. and your pissed off that you did

its simple as that...quit whining

[Tony_Macaroni]

halo 2 sucks because it isnt halo 1.

if that happened we'd say halo 2 sucks because its exactly like halo 1.

Fukin agreed! :cheers:

[Soundscape]

its simple as that...quit whining
nobody's whining...goddamn.
we're just discussing how halo 1 is MUCH better. obviously, you do not like that for some reason...too bad.

[Anthony4sho]

First off, I think it's a little excessive to say that Halo CE was much better than Halo 2. IMO, It's only slightly better, and I will tell you why: It was the first time anybody had experienced something like that. That's why Halo CE was amazing. Halo 2 really doesn't "suck" because it's just more of the same. It's Halo CE with a new story, graphics, a few new weapons, and a slightly flawed MP.

If Halo CE was 9.9, than Halo 2 in my book is a 9.8, only because it could not recreate the experience I had when I played the first game. Instead it gave me a whole lot more of Halo CE, which I was happy with. People just overhyped this game, and it's unfortunate that it's being labled with titles such as "overrated" and "it sucks".

[Soundscape]

i don't think you really understand the huge differences in gamelay between the 2 games, anthony. because you say halo 2 is 'just more of the same' and the the MP is only 'slightly flawed'

halo 2 is not just more of the same...and it's gameplay is much different than halo 2's.
the reason people say it sucks compared to halo 1 is because it doesn't require near as much skill, and overall it's less balanced that halo 1.


for example...
the BR is just soo easy to use and doesn't require alot of accuracy. once a guys sheild is down all you have to do is sweep the reticle over his head as you pull the trigger and you get the kill...massive auto aim. you couldn't do that with the pistol..you had to be accurate..on smaller hit boxes too.
and the PP takes almost no aiming skill at all.
and there are alot of gameplay inconsistancies with melees, grenades, the sword, and shotgun...and probably more that i didn't mention.

[FB-Gollum]

I will not say that Halo 2 sucks but I was disappointed with it and I'll explain why.

- There is no real skill needed to play this game. You just need to get to the good weapons for each map before your enemy.

Maybe on a few maps, but that's not the rule. I find Ivory Tower is the only one you can truly annihalate the other team on with the right weapons. The rest of them you should have a fighting chance regardless.

- The game is very unbalanced when it comes to weapons which was made worse by the patch.

LOL! Guys who repeat this mantra drive me to drink. This is one the most balanced games I have ever played. Firstly, HALO CE is NOT BALANCED. It's everyone using the same thing, which coincidentally equates to balance, but is not balance in and of itself. In H2, you can have almost any weapon and be useful with it. There are very few situations in this game where you are completely ineffectual.

- The maps are not designed well and there are no where near enough of them.

This is a completely subjective point. What makes a map good? Personally, I think Lockout, Midship, Turf, Sanctuary, Beaver Creek, Zanzibar, Warlock, Ivory Tower, Headlong (which is better than ANY big map from HCE imo) are all just as good if not better (in the case of lockout and sanctuary) than anything from HCE.

- Matchmaking is the worst idea ever, you can get the same map over and over again. Why not just have standard optimatch setup.

Right, and how often does that happen, about once a month I'll get the same map 3 times in a row. But matching skill levels is a great idea. No noobs accidentally wanderign inot a game with the Ogres and ruining it for everyone. However, I do wish there was a searchable, non-ranked, custom server list.

- Ranking does not really tell how good one is at the game as you can play 100 games of Rumble pit and not win a single game but you'll still rank up.

No one said it was perfect. But in a game of 8 people, if you're consistently 2nd or 3rd, doesn't that still mean you are better than most?

- The drop in graphics was a bad idea as it just makes the game look bad for a couple seconds. I would rather have a small load time and get all the graphics loaded in at once.

?

- The single player is just bad. Short levels, bad ending, and the whole single player is just really short. It feels as if bungie just threw some stuff together as they knew people would buy it since it had the Halo name on it.

Funny, I really enjoyed it, except for the ending. Once again this is a completely subjective point. I liked getting through levels quicker and not toiling around in a bunch of endless identical hallways.

I could go on but you get the point. Before someone tells me that if I do not like the game that I should not play it, I'll tell you that I have been playing the game recently. I'll probably not play it again till all the new maps go free. I'm not a huge Halo fan in the first place but I'll take Halo CE over Halo 2 anyday. Halo CE actually requires you to have some skill unlike Halo 2.

Well you kind of pegged yourself there didn't you?

[«AtL_BraveS_10»]

Maybe on a few maps, but that's not the rule. I find Ivory Tower is the only one you can truly annihalate the other team on with the right weapons. The rest of them you should have a fighting chance regardless.

Dude, are you kidding me?
Lockout - Probably the most even map with default settings, because there are good dual weilding hiding spots but if there weren't, it would be incredibly unfair. In fact, it already is, there is a way to completely lock down lockout, and the other team cant really do anything. BR tower - sniper on top, BR looking down under glass from library window or that bridge part, another guy watching library entrane, and a guy up watching the snipers back, and moves down along the side if someone makes it across under glass. The other team can barely do anything when they have a BR, but when they have an SMG it is rediculous, there is only one other BR on the map, and its not going to be picked up because our sniper will snipe you.. and the guy with the br goes to pick up the PP when the other team is under glass, then he just combos instead of shooting.

Midship - Whoever spawns by the BR's wins. Get the BR's go up top and shoot down at the plasma riflers. Its such an easy concept.

Ivory - Its actually harder to have complete control because the OS respawns every 1:20 and the Snipe respawns on a timer too, unlike lockout.

Coag- Wow, what is there to say. This map is sooo bad for 4v4. The snipes don't respawn until it is dropped so 1 team can easily have both. 1/2 the time you spawn in the mid and the other team gets both snipers, and even with BR start, you cant shoot halfway across the map, and its hard as **** to take down a banshee and not get killed in the process, unless you have an smg, and the banshee flyer is stupid enough to get close to you. Oh, there are 3 rockets on the map, which is A LOT better, but they NEED to put the snipes on a timer.

Foundation - Probably one of the most frustrating maps ever. Whoever has the rockets wins, because you can't get a BR because you are on spawn and the other team picks them up, and oh, thats right, they dont spawn on a timer, WOW.

Ascension - THE most unfair map. Except for Rifle Duals (which is still gay because its so hard to kill the banshee) One bases sniper respawns on a timer, and the big base sniper doesnt, wtf? grab the big base snipe, and camp the little base, and each of your members will have a snipe after a while, and 2 will have a rifle at all time, when you run out of big base snipe ammo, have someone drop the little base snipe, take that ammo, and the little base snipe will respawn again, but the Big base one won't. What a concept. With only two Br's on the map, and one right in front of you, and the other a LONG way away, even with Os, they better not kill you. Easy map to control

Warlock - Incredibly unbalanced when its smg start. If your team kills both at the same time, you should have control the whole game. With two BRs, you can easily kill them because they have to go out in the open to get a BR, and by then you should have a 2-3 shot lead on them... Use lots of ammo, and jump over and pick up the other ammo, then if they do get a BR usually they get jyped and have 2-3 bursts left. suckas.

As you can see, these maps are SO unbalanced its not funny. In halo1, the only advantages were the rockets, the invis, or the os. In halo2, the advantages are weapons that don't spawn, your spawn point, and the invis and os and rockets. On maps where there is only 1 sniper that doesnt spawn until it is dropped, it is rediculous. collossus is a perfect ex. of that. Whoever has the sniper has control, and you don't lose control unless you are playing bad kids.


LOL! Guys who repeat this mantra drive me to drink. This is one the most balanced games I have ever played. Firstly, HALO CE is NOT BALANCED. It's everyone using the same thing, which coincidentally equates to balance, but is not balance in and of itself. In H2, you can have almost any weapon and be useful with it. There are very few situations in this game where you are completely ineffectual.

uhh, yeah there are... its called matchmaking, when the other team has BR's and the only snipe on the map, and are decent. Its like the burial mound games where we would get control of both snipes at the back of the covie spawn, get one guy with a BR, and win 24-1, and don't say "well you couldn't do it to my team" because it happened to us/ we did it to people, and thats in the 25+ range of pre-patch team slayer.



This is a completely subjective point. What makes a map good? Personally, I think Lockout, Midship, Turf, Sanctuary, Beaver Creek, Zanzibar, Warlock, Ivory Tower, Headlong (which is better than ANY big map from HCE imo) are all just as good if not better (in the case of lockout and sanctuary) than anything from HCE.

Zanzibar is a poorly designed map for anything other than assault or 1 flag CTF.
Halo CE's maps were so much more even than halo2's. Its not all about graphics, its about how they support gameplay.

[/quote]
Right, and how often does that happen, about once a month I'll get the same map 3 times in a row. But matching skill levels is a great idea. No noobs accidentally wanderign inot a game with the Ogres and ruining it for everyone. However, I do wish there was a searchable, non-ranked, custom server list.[/quote]

uhh, i get warlock about 6-7/10 games in double team. rarely do i get anything else other than warlock, midship, and beaver human ts or ctf. occasionally i get ivory, but not lately.


No one said it was perfect. But in a game of 8 people, if you're consistently 2nd or 3rd, doesn't that still mean you are better than most?
yes



?

i dunno what he was talking about.


Funny, I really enjoyed it, except for the ending. Once again this is a completely subjective point. I liked getting through levels quicker and not toiling around in a bunch of endless identical hallways.

dunno what your talking about, never played campaign


Well you kind of pegged yourself there didn't you?
to an extent, he did, because he wasn't right on everything



PS. Post Patch things became a lot more fair, Sticky nades gave your team a slightly better chance of regaining control at midship, and stronger plasma rifles aid that too.

Human TS at BC is AMAZING.

The BR update is amazing too, no more inconsistancy, the best halo1 killers are becoming the best halo2 killers - even with the 3 months they quit for. ex. strangpurple, he rappes with the update, and hated halo2 before.

[l Maximus l]

Dude, are you kidding me?
Lockout - Probably the most even map with default settings, because there are good dual weilding hiding spots but if there weren't, it would be incredibly unfair. In fact, it already is, there is a way to completely lock down lockout, and the other team cant really do anything. BR tower - sniper on top, BR looking down under glass from library window or that bridge part, another guy watching library entrane, and a guy up watching the snipers back, and moves down along the side if someone makes it across under glass. The other team can barely do anything when they have a BR, but when they have an SMG it is rediculous, there is only one other BR on the map, and its not going to be picked up because our sniper will snipe you.. and the guy with the br goes to pick up the PP when the other team is under glass, then he just combos instead of shooting.

I agreed with your entire rebuttal to Gollum; however, one thing I would like to add to your very well explained Lockout strategy is that the Sword completely ruins this map. Even with the lame ass SMGs as the starting weapon, the sword completely kills the enjoyment of this map. If there was no sword, I would say that Lockout is easily one of the best maps of Halo 2.

Personally, I have become a fan of Warlock mainly because it's familiar and there is no n00b stick on the map. Seriously, any map that has a sword seriously blows because of it.

Other than the fact that Halo 2 is so messed up because of the Havok engine, I would say that the game atleast could be decent if the damn sword was out of the game. Even when I have the damn thing, I feel cheap as hell when using it. It's not even fun to use.

[E Nomini Patri]

Don't forget dual-wielding. That ruins it as well as the sword because a n00b can pick up either and ruin pros.

[ghost 009]

ya what the hell did I tell you monkeys

[«AtL_BraveS_10»]

uhh. this isn't gollum.. and under the strat for lockout, with a real team, not just random scrubs, the sword doesnt play in... we just toss it off, and then sticky nade it off the map for good the second it comes back - that or use it in the library in place of the dual wielder...

[FB-Gollum]

PS. Post Patch things became a lot more fair, Sticky nades gave your team a slightly better chance of regaining control at midship, and stronger plasma rifles aid that too.

Human TS at BC is AMAZING.

The BR update is amazing too, no more inconsistancy, the best halo1 killers are becoming the best halo2 killers - even with the 3 months they quit for. ex. strangpurple, he rappes with the update, and hated halo2 before.

Well, that kind of pegged your whole post there didn't it?

[l Maximus l]

Don't forget dual-wielding. That ruins it as well as the sword because a n00b can pick up either and ruin pros.

I was thinking a lot about duel wielding and I came to this conclusion: what if duel SMGs were the only two weapons that could be duel wielded? Personally, I think that would make Halo 2 a lot better instead of having different weapons to duel wield. Maybe duel magnums as long as they are both the same weapons. What do you think?

Just so you know, the above statement comes from a dude (me) that completely agrees with you that duel wielding sucks. If I had to compromise; however, I think I would go with my above opinion.

[l Maximus l]

uhh. this isn't gollum.. and under the strat for lockout, with a real team, not just random scrubs, the sword doesnt play in... we just toss it off, and then sticky nade it off the map for good the second it comes back - that or use it in the library in place of the dual wielder...

I understand agree with you that throwing the Sword off is key. In fact, when playing MLG gametypes, no one grabs the sword. I was simply saying that the sword on any map ruins the experience and should be completely deleted from the available weapons on the map. I hate using it and hate getting killed by it...it simply sucks.

[l Maximus l]

Here is what I do like about Halo 2:

1. XBox Live capability

2. Custom game options - it's great to have the ability to manipulate custom gametypes with tons of different variants. Very cool.

3. Bungie.net has a sweet on-line stat tracking system. This is definately killer.

4. Downloadable content is very cool even if people have to purchase new maps if they want them early. The fact that you can download maps is bad ass.

5. I also like the concept of vehicle boarding, too, eventhough it's likely that you'll get gunned down by the person you kick off anyway. It's not perfect, but, I do believe that it's a cool addition.

6. I'm also a big fan of multiple team slayer (in other words, having the option to play Red vs Blue vs Green vs Gold, etc). It adds a whole new element to Halo which I think is very cool.

[«AtL_BraveS_10»]

Here is what I do like about Halo 2:

1. XBox Live capability

2. Custom game options - it's great to have the ability to manipulate custom gametypes with tons of different variants. Very cool.

3. Bungie.net has a sweet on-line stat tracking system. This is definately killer.

4. Downloadable content is very cool even if people have to purchase new maps if they want them early. The fact that you can download maps is bad ass.

5. I also like the concept of vehicle boarding, too, eventhough it's likely that you'll get gunned down by the person you kick off anyway. It's not perfect, but, I do believe that it's a cool addition.

6. I'm also a big fan of multiple team slayer (in other words, having the option to play Red vs Blue vs Green vs Gold, etc). It adds a whole new element to Halo which I think is very cool.


i dont like the multi-team ts, but it doesnt affect me because it isn't gameplay. some people like chaos, i don;'t (usually), but i think its a good addition for sure... besides, i like the occasional 2v2v2 Swordball at Midship match

[Anthony4sho]

i don't think you really understand the huge differences in gamelay between the 2 games, anthony. because you say halo 2 is 'just more of the same' and the the MP is only 'slightly flawed'

halo 2 is not just more of the same...and it's gameplay is much different than halo 2's.
the reason people say it sucks compared to halo 1 is because it doesn't require near as much skill, and overall it's less balanced that halo 1.


for example...
the BR is just soo easy to use and doesn't require alot of accuracy. once a guys sheild is down all you have to do is sweep the reticle over his head as you pull the trigger and you get the kill...massive auto aim. you couldn't do that with the pistol..you had to be accurate..on smaller hit boxes too.
and the PP takes almost no aiming skill at all.
and there are alot of gameplay inconsistancies with melees, grenades, the sword, and shotgun...and probably more that i didn't mention.

Your only talking about one aspect of the game, which is really not that bad. It has problems, but it is not that bad. Not everyone can kill someone easily with a BR, and I've played alotta games when no one even uses it. The pistol from part one was the same ****, so lets not even go there.

Don't forget dual-wielding. That ruins it as well as the sword because a n00b can pick up either and ruin pros.

That is why it's there. So that way noobs don't have to get their asses handed to them every single game. If you think about it, it really balances it out.

[E Nomini Patri]

That is why it's there. So that way noobs don't have to get their asses handed to them every single game. If you think about it, it really balances it out.

No it doesn't. If matchmaking is so balanced then pros wouldn't be playing with n00bs anyways. The way the game is set up now though, people who kick ass at the game get corned by n00b wielders with no chance of escape. Constantly. It is so god damn annoying because you can't fight back, and if you can, the other person isn't firing at you directly. The melee doesn't balance this out enough because you lunge at them and eat more bullets and die, or you lunge past them and miss and you get killed because lunging screws over anyone good who knows how to melee at awkward angles and opportunities like I do. It sucks because you're better than someone, yet the system screws you over and you just fly right past them and they n00b wield your ass before you can recover.

Weak sauce.

[Wolf]

the halo2 forum is getting rediculous. you might as well make the halo2 forum a sub-forum in the debate section, because that's pretty much all it is now, a debate forum for a particular game.

[Soundscape]

yeah, i think i'm taking a long break form this rediculous game for a while.

- i'm tired of playing competitively and being screwed over by the spawns and inconsistant melee lunges that totally miss when they shouldn't, or stop only inches from their face, or melees that just slide right off a guy, or even when they actually hit but do no damage.
- and i'm tired of watching people walk over my stickies and take no damage, or even sticking someone who doesn't die from it. or dieing from a single frag when i just spawned and have full shields. hell, alot of times you can't even hear the stick nades when you're right ontop of one because they don't even make any noise alot of times...i dunno if this is due to lag or what.
- and the lag has been exceptionally bad since the update. i know that they said this was due to the hosting histories being reset, but i haven't noticed that it's really getting any better. i read somewhere that more of your bandwith is being used to make sure you aren't cheating/standby'ing now...which seems logical.
all i know is it's been laggier this past month than ever before...i've seen more red and yellow bars and people lagged out of games this past month than ever.
- i'm tired of the lame PP which folows me around corners and up air/gravlifts.
- i'm tired of playing the same few decent maps over and over again.
- and i've been tired of lame-ass matchmaking for several months.
- bungie is just flat out stupid when it comes to the things in this game and their playlists.

i'm sick of it.




and these weapons aren't balanced, imo.

the needler - you're just retarded if you try to duel wield it with anything besides another needler, and even then it's almost completely useless unless your target is at a complete standstill...but yet we find these all over midship and lockout for some reason.
a single magnum is useless unless you're in melee range. it randomly misses target now even when your aim is dead on
the PP is way unbalanced, especially when combined with a BR or carbine.
how balanced is it to have rockets on maps like ivory, BC and such?
sword - need i say more?
shotgun - still random.
duel wielding is rampant in this game and very unbalanced in close range. with the smg/pr combo any noob can kill a guy up close in a half second with very little aiming skill required.

the H1 pistol may have seemed unbalanced compared to the PR ,PP,and AR and such, but it balanced out the power weapons like the RL to a great extent....and more importantly it took skill to use..alot more than the BR(sweep).
up close a PR or AR would usually take out a pistol'er unless he was god-like....it only owned mid to long range for the most part. and it filled a niche.



so if you like lots of assisted aimiing, duel wielding, inconsistancy, general randomness, and just being plain f*cked around...this game is def. for you.

hats off to you, bungie :rolleyes: i have no idea how these same guys/noobs managed to make halo 1.

and whoever said human slayer on BC was awesome must like easy rocket kills on this map??? graphics aside, beaver creek sucks in comparison to battle creek. same for coag.

[Wolf]

gee, I'm glad you enlightened us with all that stuff that is new to this 7 page thread in which stuff continues to be repeated over and over again, like nelly.



I absolutely adore the halo 2 forum nowadays

:rolleyes:

i'm glad no one has posted any of the stuff you just said previously in this, and many other threads.

</sarcasm>

[Soundscape]

and what have you contributed that's been worth a damn? i may have restated a few things, but not all of what i mentioned has been said yet. atleast i make valid points about the game. ...you just hate on the haters, and add practicly nothing to the discussion.
so before you critisize me, take a look at yourself.

it's pretty bad when you go back to playing halo 1's campaign instead of halo 2 over xbl :rolleyes: i'm tired of h2's BS gameplay...it's terrible in comparison. and i'm starting to seriously doubt i'll play it EVER again. i may even cancel my xbl subscription.

[m4oH]

The Banshee On The Rifle Only Matchmade Game On Ascension Tells You How Stupid Bungie Really Is. Morons.

[Soundscape]

no sh*t. and it goes to show they don't even test their new playlists.
like 1v1 oddball. ....dumb as hell.

i made a post at b.net titled "proof that bungie is...not too bright.", and brought up the banshee on ascention rifles games. it was promptly deleted ;)

[Wolf]

ok I'm not even going to say anything else about so called "contributions" to this thread

but if you want a debate, then so be it.

alot of times you can't even hear the stick nades when you're right ontop of one because they don't even make any noise alot of times...i dunno if this is due to lag or what.

If you are right on top of a sticky grenade, why do you need to hear it? with the new explosion times with the recent update, you don't really have time to avoid it if you are already "right on top of it"...

[m4oH]

If you are right on top of a sticky grenade, why do you need to hear it? with the new explosion times with the recent update, you don't really have time to avoid it if you are already "right on top of it"... please tell that you are joking. IF you jump then the nade doesn't kill you, it only lowers your shields.

[E Nomini Patri]

The Banshee On The Rifle Only Matchmade Game On Ascension Tells You How Stupid Bungie Really Is. Morons.

Amen. Check out this bs. My MLG team is so much better than the team we just played on that level. We won 6 straight games in a row with one loss at the beginning, then we play Ascension and they get Banshee spawn:

http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=176515633&player=E%20Nomini%20Patri

Shadow was in the Banshee for basically the entire game. I stuck the Banshee when they had like 40 kills. If they were better than us our hit percentages would be nowhere near that high, but we couldn't take the Banshee out even with combined fire because it would just leave and their little assault guys would attack us on the ground. There are no rockets on the map when it it Team Rifles so what the **** were we gonna do? Does Bungie want us to rely on a sticky kill or what? ****ing lame. I would have gotten to level 24 if we won. Not that level matters right now because I haven't maxed out anyways. But still...

[m4oH]

Same thing happened to me bro. http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?panel=kills&gameid=176190615&player=m4oH
The team was terrible and couldn't snipe worth beans. They were in the banshee up until like 30. Then Tom stuck it. They got it back again until it was game over. I mean look how bad we were raping before it. here's one game before that.http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=176242956&player=m4oH

BTW- I need some slayer partners, I'm getting tired of always going highest kills, least deaths and still losing.

[Wolf]

ok, I guess I had a brain fart with that post, but I still don't know what the big deal is about the stickies.

first of all, I've never noticed a sticky not making noise, or ever really had the noise make a difference.

second of all; I guess i can slightly see the point if you are just walking along not in a battle, but if you're in a battle anyway, the sticky should kill you no matter what unless the other person just doesn't shoot any.

I have never seen someone not be damaged any by a sticky.

I have never seen someone get stuck and not die.

soundscape acts like these are all frequent occurences, as he is "tired of it."

[m4oH]

I have never seen someone not be damaged any by a sticky.

I have never seen someone get stuck and not die. I have never seen someone not be damaged by a sticky. However I have stuck people and the sticky just seems to stick then disappear into their body and never blow up. I mean the sound of the stickies isn't important to me at all but I just wanted you to realize jumping is a way to avoid it.

[Wolf]

I have never seen someone not be damaged by a sticky. However I have stuck people and the sticky just seems to stick then disappear into their body and never blow up. I mean the sound of the stickies isn't important to me at all but I just wanted you to realize jumping is a way to avoid it.


oh yeah, one thing i HAVE seen is a sticky seem to bounce off of a gun. I know that isn't what you are talking about, but I'm not sure if this is what soundscape, or anyone else that has mentioned it in this thread is referring to.

I would assume what you described is some wierd lag, but I'm obviously not positive, since I didn't witness it.

[E Nomini Patri]

Same thing happened to me bro. http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?panel=kills&gameid=176190615&player=m4oH
The team was terrible and couldn't snipe worth beans. They were in the banshee up until like 30. Then Tom stuck it. They got it back again until it was game over. I mean look how bad we were raping before it. here's one game before that.http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=176242956&player=m4oH

BTW- I need some slayer partners, I'm getting tired of always going highest kills, least deaths and still losing.

Yeah man, here's a game with one guy who isn't on our MLG team (Cobra):

http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=175745224&player=E%20Nomini%20Patri

Rape.

[Soundscape]

ok, I guess I had a brain fart with that post, but I still don't know what the big deal is about the stickies.

first of all, I've never noticed a sticky not making noise, or ever really had the noise make a difference.

second of all; I guess i can slightly see the point if you are just walking along not in a battle, but if you're in a battle anyway, the sticky should kill you no matter what unless the other person just doesn't shoot any.
i notice stickies not making noise everytime i play mlg slayer on midship. like when your team is holding down an area and the sticks start flying in from every direction. you have no idea that you're standing near one that came from the side or behind you untill it's too late...when otherwise you could've heard/realized the stickie was underneath you and got the hell out of the way or atleast jumped and survived the explosion.

people not dieing from being stuck, or walking directly over the top of a nade and taking no damage seems to happen most often when you stick someone as you die, or throw a nades as you die. sorta like the frag grenades that you throw right before you die that don't blow up or just dissapear(or have you not noticed this either? :rolleyes: )...except the plasma's still blow up but don't inflict any damage sometimes after you've died. or something like that....i dunno. all i know is it happens.

then you also have the problem of suicides for being stuck and things like that.




I have never seen someone not be damaged any by a sticky.

I have never seen someone get stuck and not die.
good for you...
but i have...



soundscape acts like these are all frequent occurences, as he is "tired of it."
notice how out of all the points i made you only brought up the issues with sticky nades.
the stick nade issue is not really the big problem here...but it adds to the frustration.
the 1 frag deaths are more of a problem than the problem with sticks doing no damage every now and then or making no noise at times.


but it's the spawns and melees that are the bigger problems.
and getting screwed over by a bad spawn or a retarded melee lunge that repeatedly stops and inch from their face and the like is a VERY frequent occurance. the melles are hella-inconsistant and frequently miss or slide off a person when they should not or even throw you off the edge of levels like lockout.

and then the unblanced weaponry...like rockets on maps with no vehicles such as ivory and bc. the rocket is much more a nuisance in H2 since there's no 3sk pistol and the rockets rate of fire has been significantly increased.
and now that power weapons aren't on a timer the game usually turns into a race for them, and then it's a camp fest after you get them. which is why this game revolves around luck alot...the luck of the spawns...which team spawns closest to the better weapons.

and like the PP which takes almost no aiming skill at all to use... it takes out a complete overshield and normal shield in one shot and homes in around corners and up lifts. hell, you can even shoot them in the head before the charged pp shot actually hits them and still get the kill somehow.

then you have the random melee's, random pistol accuracy, the random number of pellets the shotty fires each time, random 1 frag deaths, being shot through walls....
anyways...you get the idea. i'm starting to repeat myself again.



so one more time...
it's the spawns, inconsistant melees, unbalanced weaponry, and sh*tty playlists that are the big problems here.

[Wolf]

people not dieing from being stuck, or walking directly over the top of a nade and taking no damage seems to happen most often when you stick someone as you die, or throw a nades as you die. sorta like the frag grenades that you throw right before you die that don't blow up or just dissapear(or have you not noticed this either? :rolleyes: )...except the plasma's still blow up but don't inflict any damage sometimes after you've died. or something like that....i dunno. all i know is it happens.




notice how out of all the points i made you only brought up the issues with sticky nades.
the stick nade issue is not really the big problem here...but it adds to the frustration.
the 1 frag deaths are more of a problem than the problem with sticks doing no damage every now and then or making no noise at times.

OH, you were talking about when you throw a sticky right before you die... I have seen that before; it sounded like you were saying that you actually saw the person get stuck and and grenade stick to them.

ya, sometimes you see the animation for the grenade but it doesn't go or something.

kinda like with the rocket launcher. sometimes if I know I am going to die I shoot a rocket at the floor, hear the launch of it, and there is no explosion or anything. I think we are talking about a similar thing. or not, whatever.

and even yesterday I spawned a few times to find a frag grenade right there and it took my shields down but didn't kill me...

And the main reason I just chose the sticky part is because most of the other stuff has already been discussed quite thoroughly over this seven page thread and other threads; since this is the main(almost the only) discussion that goes on in the halo2 forum now.

[Soundscape]

OH, you were talking about when you throw a sticky right before you die... I have seen that before; it sounded like you were saying that you actually saw the person get stuck and and grenade stick to them.

ya, sometimes you see the animation for the grenade but it doesn't go or something.

kinda like with the rocket launcher. sometimes if I know I am going to die I shoot a rocket at the floor, hear the launch of it, and there is no explosion or anything. I think we are talking about a similar thing. or not, whatever.


yes...i'm talking about that, too. but i have also stuck people and watched it explode while stuck to their bodies and they did not die. a couple of times their shields did not even flicker.

this game is just wierd like that sometimes.... like the other day i was playing rumble training. me and another guy spawned right in front of each other at the exact same time. so ofcourse we start going at it with our smg's. and as we're wearing down on each other's shield and moving closer a frag lands in the middle of us , right at our feet killing me but not him. now i know his shields were practicly all gone because mine were too, so that nade should have taken us both out.


anyways...when i wrote that long post i was really frustrated with the game after getting screwed over hard a couple nights in a row in some close games.
i may start playing again, and just try not to let this game piss me off so much...but it's really hard. so i dunno. i'll probably just get pissed off and quit for a while again. :confused:

[Wolf]

I get pissed off quite a bit while playing, lol. just try to keep playing and have fun. don't pay attention so much to the bad things about it if you can help it, but talking about strategy or just joke around and **** with your friends or whoever you are playing with.

sing or something, that helps too, no matter how much you might suck at it ;)

or listen to music and get lost in the song while still actually playing.

[vman]

yeah that sticky nade thing has happend to me as well, im like, I SAW IT ON HIS BODY!!! WTF!? especially when i die and i pull out that last ditch effort nade or rock, and i HEAR, SEE, AND FEEL it yet it somehow manages to get engulfed by some unkown force. it pisses me the phluck off. i get so confused sometimes too. dont get me wrong, I LOVE my stickys but why does it have to be so ghey like that?

[FB-Gollum]

You know what I find funny? How inconsistent everyone is. We have a problem with there being no fall damage. But we also have a problem with nades being lethal.

So let me get this straight...If Chief falls more than 40 feet he should die; But if he sits on a futuristic high explosive he should be alright?

Frankly, futuristic and alien high explosive devices should, in my opinion, be quite lethal.

PS. Yes I would rather have fall damage back too. Kinda takes the joy out of making that risky jump.

[MikeMan91389]

You know what I find funny? How inconsistent everyone is. We have a problem with there being no fall damage. But we also have a problem with nades being lethal.

So let me get this straight...If Chief falls more than 40 feet he should die; But if he sits on a futuristic high explosive he should be alright?

Frankly, futuristic and alien high explosive devices should, in my opinion, be quite lethal.

PS. Yes I would rather have fall damage back too. Kinda takes the joy out of making that risky jump.

uhh, he has armor. but if you wanna go that route, 1 burst or 3 shots in the head should kill a person too. 12 shots with a magnum should to. but it doesnt.

[FB-Gollum]

uhh, he has armor. but if you wanna go that route, 1 burst or 3 shots in the head should kill a person too. 12 shots with a magnum should to. but it doesnt.

Holy crap. I think we unintentionally agree. You're right. It's all inconsistent. That does however, make it tough to pick and choose as a critic.

[MikeMan91389]

Holy crap. I think we unintentionally agree. You're right. It's all inconsistent. That does however, make it tough to pick and choose as a critic.

gameplays most important, not how realistic it is. everything about the game is inconsistant

weapons drop out of the air. awack to a back of a leg kills them, but 5 br bursts to the back of the leg doesnt.

etc.

the most important thing is good gameplay, which they didn't preserve from halo1. balance isn't even the thing, its gameplay, and thats why h1 was better

[Wolf]

You know what I find funny? How inconsistent everyone is. We have a problem with there being no fall damage. But we also have a problem with nades being lethal.

So let me get this straight...If Chief falls more than 40 feet he should die; But if he sits on a futuristic high explosive he should be alright?

Frankly, futuristic and alien high explosive devices should, in my opinion, be quite lethal.

PS. Yes I would rather have fall damage back too. Kinda takes the joy out of making that risky jump.


also, i think I've seen complaints of the lock-on rockets. yeah, I'm sure they won't have lock-on rockets however far in the future this game is. :rolleyes:

[FB-Gollum]

the most important thing is good gameplay, which they didn't preserve from halo1. balance isn't even the thing, its gameplay, and thats why h1 was better

Thank you for saying that. I think that's been one of my really big problems in the whole debate thus far is that everyone keeps talking abou how unbalanced Halo 2 is, which really isn't the case. A few of the maps are a bit lopsided, but the weapon balance is excellent. Almost anything can deal with anything. At the end of the day, If I have to give marks for gameplay, I'd have to give HCE a 10, and H2 a 9. I guess that's why I don't understand the vitriol. To my mind it's just nowhere near as bad or as far off from HCE as some people feel.

[Anthony4sho]

If you don't like the MP, then don't play it.

[Soundscape]

who said they didn't like h2's MP? no one.
it just been said that h1's is better. how many times must that be explained?

btw - h1 is more balanced, gullom.

[FB-Gollum]

who said they didn't like h2's MP? no one.
it just been said that h1's is better. how many times must that be explained?

btw - h1 is more balanced, gullom.

Sigh, firstly, it's "G-O-L-L-U-M". Unless you are doing that on purpose. In which case please continue.

H1 is in NO WAY more balanced. But firstly, before we argue this, let's get a definition of "balance". To me, and this is the belief upon which I base my arguments, so if your definition is different, there is no point in arguing, balance is when regardless of what weapon you have, you still have the ability to be effective. No single weapon dominates, and no single weapon guarantees victory. Balance can be defined through what extent certain weapons will dominate, and which maps will facilitate that domination. Let's also not forget that the skill/intelligence of the player is a major factor, and stupidity should not be confused with a lack of "balance" (like people who charge the sword while holding a sniper rifle).

Here is my premise. In HCE, on default settings (meaning in most games you will start with a plasma pistol) the level to which power weapons can tilt the game is far greater.

In Halo 2, almost any weapon is effective, and has a counterpoint.

By changing the game settings to make the pistol default, you are creating an artificial balance. You are equipping everyone equally. Make a game of all BR's with nothing but BR's on the map in H2 and you achieve the exact same thing.

[l Maximus l]

This is the best way to describe Halo 2:

http://x4.putfile.com/5/13914185097.jpg

[Soundscape]

GOLLUM- i'm referring to slayer pro(a predesigned gametype) where you have pistol start and AR backup. default settings were't that balanced, just like in H2.

in H1 slayer pro you started with a weapon that essentially could handle any situation...be it rocket whores or snipers since it was capable of relatively quick 3 shot kills. in H2 the power weapons are much more dominating..so the way i see it H1 is is quite a bit more balanced.

in H1 any weapon can be effective as well, as you know. needlers were really the only crappy weapon, and they're even worse in h2.

[l Maximus l]

Sigh, firstly, it's "G-O-L-L-U-M". Unless you are doing that on purpose. In which case please continue.

H1 is in NO WAY more balanced. But firstly, before we argue this, let's get a definition of "balance". To me, and this is the belief upon which I base my arguments, so if your definition is different, there is no point in arguing, balance is when regardless of what weapon you have, you still have the ability to be effective. No single weapon dominates, and no single weapon guarantees victory. Balance can be defined through what extent certain weapons will dominate, and which maps will facilitate that domination. Let's also not forget that the skill/intelligence of the player is a major factor, and stupidity should not be confused with a lack of "balance" (like people who charge the sword while holding a sniper rifle).

Here is my premise. In HCE, on default settings (meaning in most games you will start with a plasma pistol) the level to which power weapons can tilt the game is far greater.

In Halo 2, almost any weapon is effective, and has a counterpoint.

By changing the game settings to make the pistol default, you are creating an artificial balance. You are equipping everyone equally. Make a game of all BR's with nothing but BR's on the map in H2 and you achieve the exact same thing.

You make a good point, hence the reason why MLG game settings exist.

[FB-Gollum]

You make a good point, hence the reason why MLG game settings exist.

Hence the reason why I like MLG way better than Matchmaking. Hence the reason why I am frustrated to ne end that my wife won't play MLG. Hence the reason this game is being ruined for me by my matchmaking addicted wife.

[Soundscape]

/ignored.

[Wolf]

who said they didn't like h2's MP? no one.
it just been said that h1's is better. how many times must that be explained?

btw - h1 is more balanced, gullom.


he probably assumed you dislike it, which is understandable because you made a big list of things you are "tired of."

[FB-Gollum]

/ignored.

Ah man, I didn't mean to ignore you. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that the maps on Halo 1 are more balanced than the maps on H2 for the most part. Due to the more non-symetrical nature of the H2 maps it must be really tough to create 2 sides that are truly "equal". I believe maps exacerbate the effect of power weapons. Like the rocket on Ivory Tower. Which really has no excuse for being there other than for objective based games.

[ScorpionX]

Ah man, I didn't mean to ignore you. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that the maps on Halo 1 are more balanced than the maps on H2 for the most part. Due to the more non-symetrical nature of the H2 maps it must be really tough to create 2 sides that are truly "equal". I believe maps exacerbate the effect of power weapons. Like the rocket on Ivory Tower. Which really has no excuse for being there other than for objective based games.

Damnation was not symmetrical and IMO it was the one of the most balanced maps in the game, it really has nothing to do with symmetry. Take Foundation for example, the most unbalanced and pathetic map of Halo 2. All you have to do is take both rockets and both rifles and you are set. The reason the maps are so unbalanced for the most part is because power weapons are so unbelievably and ridiculously dominant in this game. Even with BR spawns a rocket or sword is pretty much undefeatable if used right. Thats why the maps seem unbalanced, but throw the pistol into any of the Halo 2 maps and it would be as balanced as any regular Halo map.

[MikeMan91E89]

Damnation was not symmetrical and IMO it was the one of the most balanced maps in the game, it really has nothing to do with symmetry. Take Foundation for example, the most unbalanced and pathetic map of Halo 2. All you have to do is take both rockets and both rifles and you are set. The reason the maps are so unbalanced for the most part is because power weapons are so unbelievably and ridiculously dominant in this game. Even with BR spawns a rocket or sword is pretty much undefeatable if used right. Thats why the maps seem unbalanced, but throw the pistol into any of the Halo 2 maps and it would be as balanced as any regular Halo map.

He's right. The game creates more unbalance because your 'starting weapon' can't counter a power weapon, and the power weapons don't respawn until dropped, so you face some problems. Another halo1 map that was good and not really symmetrical was hang em. Some asymmetrical maps like Zanzibar would be ****ty for multiflag ctf though, but at least slayer would be balanced

[m4oH]

This is the best way to describe Halo 2:

http://x4.putfile.com/5/13914185097.jpg
That is the best thing I have ever seen. It is soo true.

[Soundscape]

another thing i really hate about this game is being assasinated from the front. like last night at lockout....me and another guy melee each other at the same time and he gets an assasination on me somehow. that seems to be pretty common and did NOT happen in h1

and nade/rocket splash damage through walls and floors is just stupid.

[m4oH]

Ya that assassination thing has been happening to me alot lately. It's so frustrating, I spawn in Rumble Pit for the very first time and right away I'm in a SMG splatter fest w/ another person. We each lunge, and boom he assassinates me. The lunges in halo 2 are ghey, I constantly fall over edges and such because a lunge sends me flying like 10 feet and miss my target.

[Soundscape]

The lunges in halo 2 are ghey
agreed. the lunge crap shouldn't even be in the game.

[Ninjermy]

You all complain how unbalanced the game is and how unrealistic is it but really, who cares. The fact is that everyone playing Halo2 has the same odds of destorying there opponent as he does of them. You can't say its unbalanced if everyone has the same chance of getting guns like rocket launcher and sniper rifles, but hey even if you do get beat to them, why not use your overpowered grenades to destory him?
I don't understand why this forum needs such a ranting bashing halo2 thread. Don't like it, don't play it. Like it, play it and don't compain (like me :D )

I'm not looking to start something here... but it's just my opinion.

[TOTTEN]

You all complain how unbalanced the game is and how unrealistic is it but really, who cares. The fact is that everyone playing Halo2 has the same odds of destorying there opponent as he does of them. You can't say its unbalanced if everyone has the same chance of getting guns like rocket launcher and sniper rifles, but hey even if you do get beat to them, why not use your overpowered grenades to destory him?
I'm not looking to start something here... but it's just my opinion.
Nope You dont have the same chance because most of the time one team spawns near the weapons and the other team spawns where there are no weapons or no power weapons.

[-Natas-]

Nope You dont have the same chance because most of the time one team spawns near the weapons and the other team spawns where there are no weapons or no power weapons.

This is true, I'm going to have to say that Halo 2 is by far the worse FPS I've ever played. Soldier of Fortune 2 is more fun to play then this game. I'm going to have to change what I said in my earlier post and go with Halo 2 sucks. No Hardcore gamer I know likes this game as they know their games. The only people that really like this game are the casual gamers as this game was made for them anyway. It was made for people with no major gaming skill as none is required to play this game. On the bright side the Halo 2 disc makes a great drink coaster so I don't get a water ring on my table. :D

[Xorg]

This is true, I'm going to have to say that Halo 2 is by far the worse FPS I've ever played. Soldier of Fortune 2 is more fun to play then this game. I'm going to have to change what I said in my earlier post and go with Halo 2 sucks. No Hardcore gamer I know likes this game as they know their games. The only people that really like this game are the casual gamers as this game was made for them anyway. It was made for people with no major gaming skill as none is required to play this game. On the bright side the Halo 2 disc makes a great drink coaster so I don't get a water ring on my table. :D
That would be over doing it IMO, halo 2 is still a good game, just doesn't live up to the standard that Halo CE left for it.

[Anthony4sho]

This is true, I'm going to have to say that Halo 2 is by far the worse FPS I've ever played.

Credibility eradicated.

[Wolf]

http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=178851867&player=wolfpakrulz17

I don't understand why I am punished with no game stats because some jerk quit.

[Soundscape]

You all complain how unbalanced the game is and how unrealistic is it but really, who cares. The fact is that everyone playing Halo2 has the same odds of destorying there opponent as he does of them. You can't say its unbalanced if everyone has the same chance of getting guns like rocket launcher and sniper rifles, but hey even if you do get beat to them, why not use your overpowered grenades to destory him?
see..that's where luck plays such a large role in halo 2. the luck of the spawns...who spawns closest to the power weapons. since the power weapons don't respawn on a timer like in H1 it's all about getting control of them and camping. and if the team is decent they won't put themselves in a position to where they can be naded. the staring spawns and spawns in general can be really rediculous sometimes which only makes things worse.

starting with smg's just makes it all that much more difficult to ge the lead back once one team get the power weapons since they don't respawn on a timer like in halo 1 and since there's no pistol. those are big reasons why it's soo unbalanced compared to halo 1.




I don't understand why this forum needs such a ranting bashing halo2 thread. Don't like it, don't play it. Like it, play it and don't compain (like me :D )

jermy, how many times does this need to be said? ....we DO like the game(except for natas and he doesn't play it i assume) and we DO play it. we just don't like it near as much as H1 because the gameplay isn't as good. and even though we like the game there's all kinds of problems and inconsistancies with it.

if you don't like reading what we have to say about this game or our complaints then don't come into these threads...ok? simple as that. :D

[m4oH]

I agree with Soundscape. Take Beaver Creek for example: Red team spawns in the middle, grabs Overshield, grabs rockets, grabs sniper. Blue team spawns in red base and boom thats an early lead (should be guaranteed like 15-0). I mean these spawns are so ridiculous.

[GTA3 Dude]

At least before the update Blue team could have gotten a plasma pistol by grabbing it through the wall. Now Blue team really has no chance.

[m4oH]

At least before the update Blue team could have gotten a plasma pistol by grabbing it through the wall. Now Blue team really has no chance.
Exactly before the update one person could get dual SMGs another have the combo and another have SMG+Pistol combo all without leaving the base+ 4 plasma nades :D . Anyways this may not be the best example. What about the neck to neck games at Lockout and you spawn wihtin like 2 feet of the enemy?

[Ford Mustang]

I definitely agree with Natas when he says that most hardcore gamers hate this game. None of my friends play it, me included.

[FB-Gollum]

I really think a lot of people here need to go back to XBC for a while. Go get spawn trapped on Hang'em or Derelict and remember that these aren't new problems. I don't think most hardcore gamers hate the game. I think most hardcore gamers love the game since the update and would like to see just a few more tweaks to get it where they want it. I also believe that these tweaks are coming. I also believe you are all completely nearsighted. I said this a while ago, and I'll say it again:

BUNGIE IS TRAINING PEOPLE.

Sound weird? Consider...

If they had released Halo 2 with minimal Auto-Aim etc. (Essentially made it just like Halo 1 feel-wise) Most new people, who are getting drawn in by the hype, buying an xbox for the game etc. would've been absolutely annihalated on the first night by veteran gamers. It would've taken a week for all the hardcore and leet players t get their ranks up high enough that they aren't getting matched with noobs anymore. Which wouldn't matter anyway because all the noobs have quit long a go becase they are only casual gamers, haven't been playing long enough to get addicted and were bored of respawn/die/respawn/die/respawn/die. Now Bungie is changing the game. They've said the first update was round 1 and they are planning another. They've reduced the aim assist, they've made the BR more like the pitol amped up grenades and melee's. All the things that the pro's would've used to eradicate the hordes of newcomers that spend money to create the budget for Halo 3. They also would've eradicated the reality of those people all lining up to buy Halo 3. Which they NOW all will. By slowly turning the game back into what we want they allow the mass of new "casual" gamers to slowly adapt and develop skills rather than subjecting them to the mass slaughter they certainly would have encountered.

No the game is not perfect.

Some things can not be fixed.

I have 10 dollars that says the next update will address many serious balance issues and further change the gameplay to resemble Halo CE.

They can do this now that the masses have developed a level of skill.

[MikeMan91E89]

I definitely agree with Natas when he says that most hardcore gamers hate this game. None of my friends play it, me included.

i think he meant most hard core players as in tournament players... not just xbox game fans... but im sure you are hard core.. for a non tourny player

[ScorpionX]

I think most hardcore gamers love the game since the update and would like to see just a few more tweaks to get it where they want it.


And I know you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about

I really think a lot of people here need to go back to XBC for a while. Go get spawn trapped on Hang'em or Derelict and remember that these aren't new problems.

I think you should go back to XBC to remind yourself of what weapon you spawned with.

[E Nomini Patri]

Oh god my team got the worst spawns possible...

They spawn at both snipers, we get nothing: http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=182052020&player=E%20Nomini%20Patri

We spawn at big tower. All of us. They get everything but Banshee: http://bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameID=182063185&player=E Nomini Patri

Screwed.

[Regosnot]

One time on Ascension the other team had both Snipers the rocket and the Banshee. You would get picked off or your shield would be taken out by the Banshee then finished off by a Sniper. Personally Halo 2 has become boring at the moment, unless it's a sysem link.

[l Maximus l]

One time on Ascension the other team had both Snipers the rocket and the Banshee. You would get picked off or your shield would be taken out by the Banshee then finished off by a Sniper. Personally Halo 2 has become boring at the moment, unless it's a sysem link.

Often times, I'm on the positive end of respawning by the power weapons. And, it's still not satisfying when myself and my teammate run the entire map when the other two dudes (referring to Double Team) have SMGs and can do absolutely nothing. Ascension is terrible about this. Lockout is also terrible about this, too by only have two poorly placed BRs and the fact that there is a sword on the map.

Halo 2 is all about getting the power weapons, maintain the obvious strategy on the specific map (which isn't hard to figure out) and then rape your opponents. Just be lucky to be the first ones to the power weapons and you're gold...but, unsatisfied.

If my opponents happen to get the power weapons first, then, it's an extremely steep uphill battle. It's possible to win if your opponents are not very good. And, even if you do make a comeback, it's hardly satisfying because you know you got shafted by a terrible respawn.

I honestly believe that Halo 2 could be 10 times better if there were BR starts on every map and all weapons were on timers. Even then, it would still fall way too short compared to Halo CE. The only solution to help Halo 2: Remake the game on the Halo engine, not the Havok engine.

[FB-Gollum]

And I know you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about

Riiiight. Because you and a handful of others on this board disagree. Sure. Thanks. I've seen enough of the pro's saying things like "the players that were good at halo ce are becoming the ones who are good at H2 again". Lots of players that stopped playing have come back since the update.


I think you should go back to XBC to remind yourself of what weapon you spawned with.

Like you can't spawn trap people on those maps regardless? What the hell does that mean? Because you have a pistol you're invulnerable to spawn trapping? Yeah, ok.

I don't even know why I acknowledge you. You obviously don't even read the bloody post you just pull out a couple of sentences you don't like and **** on them.

[Soundscape]

I think most hardcore gamers love the game since the update and would like to see just a few more tweaks to get it where they want it.
nope. they may like it more since the update...but they certainly don't 'love' it. they love halo 1, not halo 2. harcore/competitive gamers are going to love the much more balanced and consistant and overall just better gameplay of h:ce.




I also believe that these tweaks are coming.
what makes you think this? bungie is probably in a hurry to get h3 finished in time for the release of the ps3. i doubt they're concerned with another 'fix'.
there's not going to be any more updates or patches.
bungie lies too. like when they said that they'd be updating the playlists and coming out with new maps every month.





BUNGIE IS TRAINING PEOPLE.
yeah right. training people to duel wield and camp with the power weapons maybe.





They've said the first update was round 1 and they are planning another.
what? when/where did they say this? frankly, i don't think you know what you're talking about, gollum





They've reduced the aim assist,
in ONE weapon....the magnum. now it randomly misses. great.





they've made the BR more like the pitol amped up grenades and melee's. All the things that the pro's would've used to eradicate the hordes of newcomers that spend money to create the budget for Halo 3.
i really don't think they should have made plasma nades stronger than frags and able kill you from 2-3 feet away.. i'm not saying these changes are not an improvement compared to pre-patch, but plasmas are a bit overpowered...and melees are a little stonger in h2.

and they had/have no intentions of making the BR more like the pistol. bungie hates the h1 pistol. it takes too much skill to use and was overpowering in their opinion. but we all know bungie is a bunch of noobs.
they tightened the spread of the 3 shot burst, making it more accurate over distances, but it is hardly similar to the pistol. it'sway too easy to get headshots with compared to the h1 pistol..all you have to do is sweep the reticle over their head and the auto aim does the rest.


bungie has already said that they're more interested in gameplay variety than balance. they said that they think BR starts make for 'stale' gameplay...they're idiots.
they even said themselves that starting with the BR is going to be hard on the majority of players especially close range....because they know the majority of the people playing h2 are 'n00bs'. and that's who they are catering to. the had soccer moms and little kids test the game for god's sake.

frankie said 'more skill = more fun', but bungie designed this game to not require much skill. and they won't even give us one br start playlist. even if they did, it would probably have terrible maps in the playlist. ...like slayer/assault/ctf at coag, burial mounds, waterworks, or some crap like that.

they have a PP as a backup weapon in one of their no shield gametypes...which goes to show you how incredibly stupid they are. they left the bashee in rifles games. they made it take 2 melees to kill someone in a no shields gametype, but then they start you out with grenades.
bungie is just flat out not too bright when it comes to good gameplay, and H1's awesome gameplay was basicly an accident. if they would've had time to tweak the game's MP they way they really wanted it would not have been near as good.



They also would've eradicated the reality of those people all lining up to buy Halo 3. Which they NOW all will.
i cetainly won't be lining up to by the next noobed out halo after being so dissapointed in this game's gameplay. i may end up getting it, but i definitely won't be in any hurry or in any lines to get it.





By slowly turning the game back into what we want they allow the mass of new "casual" gamers to slowly adapt and develop skills rather than subjecting them to the mass slaughter they certainly would have encountered.
that may be somewhat true, but was not bungies intentions, imo.
i think you're really kidding yourself with that kind of talk.





I have 10 dollars that says the next update will address many serious balance issues and further change the gameplay to resemble Halo CE.
what makes you assume there will be another update? i have 10 bucks that says they're won't be.

[Dr BoNBoNz]

Halo 2 = :bang: + :mad: + :cuss:

Halo 1 = :hump:

The less you play Halo 2 the better you'll feel. So go and play some XBC Halo 1.

[Soundscape]

Now Bungie is changing the game. They've said the first update was round 1 and they are planning another.
alright, gollum. atleast answer one question for me. when/where did bungie say that the first update was 'round one' and that they were planning another?

[-Natas-]

Bungie did say in their weekly news update "The main reason for us holding the downloadable version for that extra week is so that we can match up all the iterations of autoupdate, matchmaking playlist changes and so on. The maps themselves are done, so we're now in the land of retail shipping, matchmaking tuning and so on. Sorry to keep dragging it out. The reason the retail pack slipped was that we found a problem during the final test pass (which is what the final test pass is for, so I suppose it worked)."

So if you can believe what they say they will have another autoupdate the first week of July. I doubt it will really help the game much though.

[FB-Gollum]

Bungie did say in their weekly news update "The main reason for us holding the downloadable version for that extra week is so that we can match up all the iterations of autoupdate, matchmaking playlist changes and so on. The maps themselves are done, so we're now in the land of retail shipping, matchmaking tuning and so on. Sorry to keep dragging it out. The reason the retail pack slipped was that we found a problem during the final test pass (which is what the final test pass is for, so I suppose it worked)."

So if you can believe what they say they will have another autoupdate the first week of July. I doubt it will really help the game much though.

Yeah. That's what I was referring to.

[FB-Gollum]

nope. they may like it more since the update...but they certainly don't 'love' it. they love halo 1, not halo 2. harcore/competitive gamers are going to love the much more balanced and consistant and overall just better gameplay of h:ce.

Well, maybe "love" is an overstatement. But they are warming up to it. Rapidly. I'm on the MLG forums and I see enough poeple praising the update and the game overall now. There's still frustrations, but much of them have to do with weapon balance on the maps.





what makes you think this? bungie is probably in a hurry to get h3 finished in time for the release of the ps3. i doubt they're concerned with another 'fix'.
there's not going to be any more updates or patches.
bungie lies too. like when they said that they'd be updating the playlists and coming out with new maps every month.

Halo 3 is already done. Don't ask how I know. Believe me.

yeah right. training people to duel wield and camp with the power weapons maybe.

To start with. But that's how people learn and get a feel for the controls. They evolve from there. There was a time when you ran around into walls and looking at the sky etc. You had the benefit to learen when everyone else was learning. It's not so simple this time around.





what? when/where did they say this? frankly, i don't think you know what you're talking about, gollum

Responded to below. Given upon reading it over it's quite ambiguous.




in ONE weapon....the magnum. now it randomly misses. great.

That they spoke of. It doesn't randomly miss. The openly staed they reduced the AA to force more accurate headshots. You can still take someone down hella fast if you can make a skillfull "headshot". Besides, that's the only one they've admitted to.

They never said anything about changing the BR, yet lo and behold it's quite different. They already said the are not listing all the changes they have done. That's because they want to gauge honest reactions. If they told us, then most of the naturally *****y people would just attack them and they'd never be able to get an honest reaction.




i really don't think they should have made plasma nades stronger than frags and able kill you from 2-3 feet away

Plasma's are still no more powerful than Frags in Halo CE.

or made melees as overpowered as they are now compared to h:ce.

Frankie stated that the melee is now EXACTLY THE SAME AS HALO CE. This is what I'm talking about. You guys are so biased you can't even see when something is what you wanted.

i'm not saying these changes are not an improvement compared to the pre-patch nades and melees, but melees and plasmas are a bit overpowered.

Melees are exactly like Halo CE. Plasma's...well, I like them. It's a subjective point.

and they had/have no intentions of making the BR more like the pistol. bungie hates the h1 pistol. it takes too much skill to use and was overpowering in their opinion. but we all know bungie is a bunch of noobs.

Funny, cause they said the update was intended to make it more like Halo CE. The original point that EVERYONE AGREED ON WAS THAT WE NEEDED A LESS POWERFUL PISTOL. Go read posts before that game was released and almost everyone agreed that the pistol WAS overpowered and needed to be toned down a bit. So now it has a slightly slower rate of fire, slightly less range and takes 4 shots instead of 3 to kill.

What's your complaint?

Right, the guys that created your beloved Halo are a bunch of noobs. That's an assinine statement. Just because someone doesn't have the best hand eye co-ordination doesn't make them a noob. It's about what you know.


they tightened the spread of the 3 shot burst, making it more accurate over distances, but it is hardly similar to the pistol. it'sway too easy to get headshots with compared to the h1 pistol..all you have to do is sweep the reticle over their head and the auto aim does the rest.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, I'd like to see a slight further reduction in AA. But at the same time at what cost? If it means I'd have to suffer missed shots from lag etc. then I'll take the sweeping thank you. More than anything I don't want the game to feel like XBC, where I could unload a full clip from a shotty and hit nothing.


bungie has already said that they're more interested in gameplay variety than balance.

Please show me that quote.

they said that they think BR starts make for 'stale' gameplay...they're idiots.

Please show me that quote.

they even said themselves that starting with the BR is going to be hard on the majority of players especially close range

Of course, and that goes right along with what I've said. But they've got the basics down enough now that they can handle it.

....because they know the majority of the people playing h2 are 'n00bs'. and that's who they are catering to. the had soccer moms and little kids test the game for god's sake.

Accessibility was what made Halo CE. It's making Halo 2 as well. But we'll come back to this point in a minute.

frankie said 'more skill = more fun', but bungie designed this game to not require much skill. and they won't even give us one br start playlist.

Funny, cause I start with a BR in over 50% of the games I play in matchmaking. And often on the ones I don't it's a human weapon set so one is never very far away.

even if they did, it would probably have terrible maps in the playlist. ...like slayer/assault/ctf at coag, burial mounds, waterworks, or some crap like that.

That's just bull****.

they have a PP as a backup weapon in one of their no shield gametypes...which goes to show you how incredibly stupid they are.

Which gametype is that? The only one I know of is Team SWAT and I don't believe that's a PP secondary.

they left the bashee in rifles games.

So they made a mistake. They said in the last update they were fixing that particular issue. Big deal man.

they made it take 2 melees to kill someone in a no shields gametype, but then they start you out with grenades.

Rather than have you run 2 feet to find them. Massive oversight there. Geez these guys must be the biggest idiots ever!

bungie is just flat out not too bright when it comes to good gameplay, and H1's awesome gameplay was basicly an accident.

Funny. Cause I've seen them respond to everything the community has asked for that they can. Your complaining is what makes you look like a noob.

Now I don't mean noob in that you have no skill, because you do. I mean noob in that you obviously haven't spent much time on developers forums and see the usual level of support that the community recieves. Bungie has been downright heroic compared to most. Go ask the Rainbow Six community how they were treated when Ubi took over. Go ask harcore GR players how they like GR2. Go ask CounterStrike players about support against cheating.

if they would've had time to tweak the game's MP they way they really wanted it would not have been near as good.

Once again, just an angry statement with no anchor in reality.


i cetainly won't be lining up to by the next noobed out halo after being so dissapointed in this game's gameplay. i may end up getting it, but i definitely won't be in any hurry or in any lines to get it.

Yes, you will. :p


that may be somewhat true, but was not bungies intentions, imo.
i think you're really kidding yourself with that kind of talk.

This is where I think you guys need to wake up. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that Microsoft id fighting for, and Halo is one it's big weapons. You don't think they agonize over how to release things to the masses. They know the game doesn't exist without the hardcore, but needs the casual gamers to survive. Winning them over is key. Microsoft has already said they want this to draw in everyone. Who says a soccer mom can't own you at Halo? It's not arm wrestling man. Age/Gender mean nothing in the digital world. However, that soccer mom is not going to get a chance to own you if she gives up playing 30 seconds in because she can't even respawn and run around a bit because she's getting owned. If you don't think that massive companies don't consider and strategize around these realities then you are the one kidding yourself.

Why do you think there was no team slayer playlist to start? You really think Bungie didn't intend to provide one eventually? Of course they did. But once again, they needed to control things for awhile. Objective games teach you the maps as they have waypoints etc. Essentially, objective games are the best way to learn the game. So they forced us to learn. The 1 million of us who didn't need to learn, got held up for the 5.5 million that did. Fair enough. I'm happy the game made so much money and has been so succesful because now I know for sure I'm going to get a Halo 3 that even bigger and even better.

[ScorpionX]

Riiiight. Because you and a handful of others on this board disagree. Sure. Thanks. I've seen enough of the pro's saying things like "the players that were good at halo ce are becoming the ones who are good at H2 again". Lots of players that stopped playing have come back since the update.


Yea I am sure you have no clue what you are talking about to say that hardcore gamers like this game. So let me ask you a question: What hardcore gamers do YOU know that "love" :rofl: this game? You go to the MLG forums and think you know what people like? Wow. Good job on making me look like an idiot.

Like you can't spawn trap people on those maps regardless? What the hell does that mean? Because you have a pistol you're invulnerable to spawn trapping? Yeah, ok.

Well I thought you could figure out what that statement meant but I guess I'll have to spell it out for you: THE PISTOL GIVES YOU A CHANCE AGAINST SPAWN CAMPING. THE SMG DOES NOT. It doesn't take any skill in Halo 2 to sit in the small base in Ascension and spawn trap people. And it is almost impossible to do it on any Halo 2 map because your pistol had a chance against a power weapon.


I don't even know why I acknowledge you. You obviously don't even read the bloody post you just pull out a couple of sentences you don't like and **** on them.

Bloody? Riiiiiiiiight. And you have no clue what your talking about whenever you start s sentence with "Everyone knows" :rolleyes:

Frankie stated that the melee is now EXACTLY THE SAME AS HALO CE. This is what I'm talking about. You guys are so biased you can't even see when something is what you wanted.


Try again Gollum. They said it is now as powerful as the melee in Halo, its not the same. I really doubt you know this, but..... THERE WAS NO LUNGING IN HALO'S MELEE. Yea thats right, meleeing actually took ski.... ski.... ski.... skill.

[m4oH]

IF you can say you like Halo 2 more than Halo CE after watching this video, you truly are an idiot. Seriously, watch how n00bified this game is. http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=h2in

[Soundscape]

wow gollum..that's alot of sh*t to reply to. and this is actually starting to get old real fast for me. but here goes....

Well, maybe "love" is an overstatement. But they are warming up to it. Rapidly. I'm on the MLG forums and I see enough poeple praising the update and the game overall now. There's still frustrations, but much of them have to do with weapon balance on the maps.
the frustrations are due no br start playlists, stupid inconsistincies with weapons, grenades, and melees, spawns, ect....and just crappy gameplay compared to H1.






Halo 3 is already done. Don't ask how I know. Believe me.
ok.



To start with. But that's how people learn and get a feel for the controls. They evolve from there. There was a time when you ran around into walls and looking at the sky etc. You had the benefit to learen when everyone else was learning. It's not so simple this time around.
i still disagree with the 'training people' stuff.






That they spoke of. It doesn't randomly miss. The openly staed they reduced the AA to force more accurate headshots. You can still take someone down hella fast if you can make a skillfull "headshot". Besides, that's the only one they've admitted to. and that's the only one that has been changed. and i'm almost 100% sure it DOES miss randomly at about 10 feet or so and that's a little rediculous. try it out. the shotgun is still random aswell.
instead of just slightly reducing it's damge or slightly reducing the AA they go too far with both. just like they went too far with plasma nades and melee damage.




They never said anything about changing the BR, yet lo and behold it's quite different. the only thing thats different is it's tighter spread. and they figured alot of people wouldn't even notice this. they mentioned all the main things they changed like melee and nades and the pistol auto aim.




Plasma's are still no more powerful than Frags in Halo CE.
how can you say that? they are obviously more powerful than halo 1 frags because they kill you even when not stuck...unlike halo 1 nades.



Frankie stated that the melee is now EXACTLY THE SAME AS HALO CE. This is what I'm talking about. You guys are so biased you can't even see when something is what you wanted.
frankie is an idiot. and you need to go check out the halo 1 melee again because you are mistaken.



Melees are exactly like Halo CE.
wrong again. who looks like the noob? :p



Funny, cause they said the update was intended to make it more like Halo CE. they said, they said. bungie has said alot of sh*t. doesn't mean it's true or completely accurate.
ofcourse it made it slightly more like h1, but they took melees and nades which were underpowered and made them too powerfull. the frags are fine, but plasmas are obviously overpowered.



The original point that EVERYONE AGREED ON WAS THAT WE NEEDED A LESS POWERFUL PISTOL. Go read posts before that game was released and almost everyone agreed that the pistol WAS overpowered and needed to be toned down a bit. So now it has a slightly slower rate of fire, slightly less range and takes 4 shots instead of 3 to kill.
you're exaggerated a sh*tload when you say that EVERYONE agreed that h2 needed a less powerfull pistol. the pistol is a huge reason why halo 2's gameplay was soo great.



What's your complaint? why even ask that? haven't we covered that enough by now? i have many complaints as do alot of people, and they have been listed several times by now.




Right, the guys that created your beloved Halo are a bunch of noobs. That's an assinine statement. Just because someone doesn't have the best hand eye co-ordination doesn't make them a noob. It's about what you know.
well, i guess noob may be an overstatement..but they sure have much to learn in terms of what makes good gameplay and balance. they f'ed up bigtime on h2.






Please show me that quote.
Please show me that quote.
i'm not making that stuff up. and i'm not going to try and find out where i read those statements. most of it was pm's from bungie guys concerning BR start playlists and such that were publicly posted at the mlg forums.




But they've got the basics down enough now that they can handle it.
they had the 'basics' down with halo 1...halo 2 was a step backwards in gameplay.





Funny, cause I start with a BR in over 50% of the games I play in matchmaking. And often on the ones I don't it's a human weapon set so one is never very far away.
good for you. i don't play MM...it sucks. all maps should have a BR start and bungie just doesn't agree with that because they think starting with the BR on every map makes for 'stale' gameplay...that's what they said. that's why i say they're idiots in some aspects and 'noobs'.



That's just bull****.
really? then why do they have team slayer and skirmish games on coag? there's probably other stupid gametypes/maps like that in the playlists, but like i said, i don't play ranked games.




Which gametype is that? The only one I know of is Team SWAT and I don't believe that's a PP secondary.
golden showers/sentinel beams has the PP back up. and i read that Frankie was the moron that designed that gametype.




So they made a mistake. They said in the last update they were fixing that particular issue. Big deal man.
a mistake? they've made many mistakes in the design of this game and in the playlists, imo.




Funny. Cause I've seen them respond to everything the community has asked for that they can.
wrong. there's still no BR playlists that over 1100 people voted for at the bungie forums.





Yes, you will. :p
hell no i won't. but believe what you want.
if bungie makes another game like this i will NOT give them any more of my money.



Who says a soccer mom can't own you at Halo? It's not arm wrestling man. Age/Gender mean nothing in the digital world.
no sh*t man, but skill and experience should have everything to do with who owns in this game. not what weapons you're holding or how close you spawned to the power weapons. they made this game forgiving to people who suck. and it has a small learning curve compared to halo 1.



anways, i probably missed some things, but i'm tired right now. i may add more later.

[l Maximus l]

Scorpion...thank you for responding to the melee. Seriously, even the n00biest of n00bs know that the Halo 2 melee has a ridiculous lunge compared to Halo CE's smack melee. It's changes like this that Bungie made in Halo 2 that are completely irresponsible. The gameplay between the two is so different that it's hard to even call Halo 2 a sequel.

As an aside, I would just like to remind all of the pro-Halo2/Bungie fanboys that there are actually people in existence that are not happy with all of the ridiculous changes when we were expecting Halo 2 to be the same as Halo CE but found out to the contrary. It's beyond disappointing...in a wierd way, my quality of life has taken a dip because of Halo 2. Yeah, now that's hardcore.

[MikeMan91E89]

Well, maybe "love" is an overstatement. But they are warming up to it. Rapidly. I'm on the MLG forums and I see enough poeple praising the update and the game overall now. There's still frustrations, but much of them have to do with weapon balance on the maps.

95% of the people on the MLG forums are just like you...aka, not good at halo. The pros rarely post, cept for str8 rippin, cuz fonzi is a post whore, zyos rarely posts, saiyan has 1 post, sergio posts once in a while, but 90% of them don't post that often. The only players on a rapid comeback are strange, gintron, and one or two others. There aren't really that many coming back, many have left.





Halo 3 is already done. Don't ask how I know. Believe me.

dont believe you..



That they spoke of. It doesn't randomly miss. The openly staed they reduced the AA to force more accurate headshots. You can still take someone down hella fast if you can make a skillfull "headshot". Besides, that's the only one they've admitted to.

It does randomly miss, play a double team at lockout and not have host. part of it is latency, but it has become like the shotgun. The shotgun, pistol, and carbine are all worse on xbl. the shotgun is the worst because people expect the most, and the pistol has gotten VERY bad. Seriously, when i didn't have host, i could shoot the guy 6 times w/ no shield and the last one killed him... last time i played 2v2 pistols lockout, **** doubleteam, i went like, 18-1 or something like that. its random like the shotgun now.

They never said anything about changing the BR, yet lo and behold it's quite different. They already said the are not listing all the changes they have done. That's because they want to gauge honest reactions. If they told us, then most of the naturally *****y people would just attack them and they'd never be able to get an honest reaction.






Plasma's are still no more powerful than Frags in Halo CE.


yes they are.. they kill you in one hit. frags in ce didnt kill you in one hit. not to mention getting one naded in halo2.


Frankie stated that the melee is now EXACTLY THE SAME AS HALO CE. This is what I'm talking about. You guys are so biased you can't even see when something is what you wanted.

no. they arent the same at all.

In halo1, if you hit someone in the front, it was in the front, side, in the side, back, in the back.

In halo2, if you hit someone in the front, its usually a front 25% of the time it lunges at them and doesnt connect, screwing you over for them to get a melee start on you. 5% of the time you get an asassanation from the front, or if you are lucky, 1% of the time you'll be sent off the ledge from your 'melee'. last time i punched someone i didn't glide three feet toward them [in real life].

Next, it took 2 melees in halo1 to kill someone, now it takes three. UNLESS you have that 'sweet' 'extra' powerful punch because your momentum is going towards them.



Funny, cause they said the update was intended to make it more like Halo CE. The original point that EVERYONE AGREED ON WAS THAT WE NEEDED A LESS POWERFUL PISTOL. Go read posts before that game was released and almost everyone agreed that the pistol WAS overpowered and needed to be toned down a bit. So now it has a slightly slower rate of fire, slightly less range and takes 4 shots instead of 3 to kill.


mm, no, kids on the bungie forums said it needed to be toned down. Honestly, no professional or aspiring gamer wanted it toned down.


What's your complaint?

that this game blows monkey nuts compared to halo1


Right, the guys that created your beloved Halo are a bunch of noobs. That's an assinine statement. Just because someone doesn't have the best hand eye co-ordination doesn't make them a noob. It's about what you know.

uhh, yes, they are noobs, they lose to people like 'team discovery channel' who were like level 7 with 400 clan matches played.

in a video game sense, they are noobs. in a 'life' sense, it's about what you know. + halo is a lot more than hand coordination.


That's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, I'd like to see a slight further reduction in AA. But at the same time at what cost? If it means I'd have to suffer missed shots from lag etc. then I'll take the sweeping thank you. More than anything I don't want the game to feel like XBC, where I could unload a full clip from a shotty and hit nothing.


a. They should run dedicated servers and then they wouldn't have to worry about lag. They made so much money off us, thats the least they could do.
b. Yes, I know you'd take the sweeping, thats how bad kids get an advantage in this game.
c. your last sentence sounds just like how xbl is right now.
d. xbc lag was bad [sometimes], but play on the good hosts like xtournaments or others that had t1's and up, but it was nothing near standby, or giving the host to ****ty connections. honestly, let the party leader be the host for one, next, get dedicated servers for matchmaking



Accessibility was what made Halo CE. It's making Halo 2 as well. But we'll come back to this point in a minute.


ease-of-playing online is making halo2. end of story


Funny, cause I start with a BR in over 50% of the games I play in matchmaking. And often on the ones I don't it's a human weapon set so one is never very far away.


yes, those ascension rifle games with the banshee left on are great, since i get a battle rifle, everything is fine... and those warlock games where there are like, 4 BR's on the map, those are the best... cept once one team gets control they are bad if they lose it because the other team spawns on the ground every time, and can't possibly get to a br if the other team is coordinated. oohh, and lockout, theres that br up on br tower... too bad i cant get it because i will get sniped because all i have is a fvking smg.



Yes, you will. :p

i will not preorder halo3.


I'm happy the game made so much money and has been so succesful because now I know for sure I'm going to get a Halo 3 that even bigger and even better.
since the trackrecord shows that it does do that.. halo1 < halo2 < halo3..... oh wait, no it doesn't its halo1 > halo2 ? halo3, who knows what itll be like, it could be incredibly worse.

[Soundscape]

Please show me that quote.
http://mlgpro.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8121&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
halfway down the page is where the bungie conversations are quoted ...there's more on the following pages.

this why I go back to my original statement - a battle rifle start can be a good thing on some maps/gametypes, but it can be unbalancing in others, and can often stagnate the game play in undesirable ways For example, short range combat becomes a lot harder with the battle rifle with a lot of players since it is hard for some people to use the battle rifle in a short range encounter.
- my primary belief is that the playlists should have lots and lots of variety - SMG start isn't always the answer - it is just the safe choice for smaller maps.

What IS much more likely is that we'll be adding a lot more variety to the playlists. We're also doing other things like adding in the spectre for some variants and in general going for variety.
No, if anything, it improves things because it adds more variety. That's always good in matchmaking.





http://mlgpro.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8297&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
and then theres this...2nd to last post on the page.

Sigh.

Why is this hard to understand? We're not making a MLG playlist. We are changing the playlists to add variety. Some of that variety will include having a battle rifle at spawn. Sometimes you'll get something else. We believe that your ability to win at Halo 2 should be measured over a range of different gametypes, not just this one way that MLG advocates.

Now, I'm going to say something that is hard for many people to understand. Here goes: "Just because you are good, doesn't mean you know what is best." You guys seem to think that every map you need a battle rifle to start, and no motion tracker. We disagree. I think I'll figure out if you're better at the game by seeing how well you do in gametype that uses the motion tracker, for example.

You might be wondering what makes us get to choose what is best. Well, we're not infallible. We're not perfect. But - we are the ones who made the game, and for better or worse, we have a lot more view into the play styles of the general population than you do. You may not like that we listen to people other than the best of the best, the hardcore, but we have to listen to both, and find a happy medium.

I think what the best course of action for you guys is wait a few weeks. We've got the autoupdate (which contains more than just bugfixes), then new maps, and then new playlists. Then jump back in, and see how it feels.

In then end, MLG "Ranked Play" is not Bungie "Ranked Play" and probably will never be. But you guys need understand that is okay. We don't all have to like the same types, but matchmaking, by its nature, has to appeal to more than just MLG advocates.
-Achronos

[l Maximus l]

Achronos is a freakin' tool.

[Soundscape]

no joke.

[«AtL_BraveS_10»]

soo.. why did i just get banned again?

[lllSmokelll]

am i the only one that hasnt even played Halo 2?

[Tony_Macaroni]

am i the only one that hasnt even played Halo 2?
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: r u ****in serious? may i ask why u havent been curious enough to pick it up and see wut the deal is with all of this ?

[l Maximus l]

am i the only one that hasnt even played Halo 2?

I borderline envy you.

[Soundscape]

heh...
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=beatdown12

[Whisper]

ah nevermind..

[Bastille]

i am so with u on that one,but i still enjoi halo on rare occasions when the settings are right!

[FB-Gollum]

Ok...That's a lot of **** to respond to. So I'm going to do what you guys do...pull things out of context, ignore the points that don't agree with what I'm saying and generally have a complete lack of understanding of the world because you're mostly idiotic teenagers. If I'm on your friends list please remove me if you haven't already.

Scorp: Good job on making you look like an idiot? I don't need to, you do that well enough on your own.

Sound: Ok, you're actually a nice guy. But I think you're caught up in the "l337" clique and overlooking a lot of **** for the sake of the opinions of people who like to spew crap but are good at Halo. Thanks for showing me those quotes. At least someone here. We had some really fun games and I don't recall you ever hating on the game so much until you started in these debates.

Mikeman: Come on now man. For a little kid you talk a big game. Talk to me in 10 years when you have an education and some life experience. I'm sure you're a great player, but you need to take a step back and see the big picture in things. You don't believe me about Halo 3? Good for you. But I know a lot of people. Real people. People with jobs, and responsibilites and connections etc. It's amazing what you can learn when you're leasing a few M45's to some guys from Micrsoft. Think twice kid. I've been around a lot longer than you.

Max: I have hope that Halo 3 improves your quality of life.

Later guys. It's been a slice, but I can't bring myself to waste any more of my very limited time in these discussions. I'm sure you'll all shed a tear. Enjoy agreeing with eachother.

[l Maximus l]

bwahahaha! This video is freakin' priceless:

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=www.halo2sucks.com

[Soundscape]

Ok...That's a lot of **** to respond to. So I'm going to do what you guys do...pull things out of context, ignore the points that don't agree with what I'm saying and generally have a complete lack of understanding of the world because you're mostly idiotic teenagers. If I'm on your friends list please remove me if you haven't already.
damn, gollum...i think you're taking these discussions way too personal man. i didn't mean to take anything you said out of context....i just try to reply to most all of your statements one at a time...it's not an attempt to take anything you said out of context. i did not intend to ignore any points either, and i don't think i really did. :confused: but i hope that teenager remark wasn't intended for me or max.

and the reason i removed you from my list to begin with was because you played ALOT of matchmaking and smg start customs and you were concerned with getting your rank up. i just don't enjoy that crap and think it's pretty lame. it was nothing personal.



Sound: Ok, you're actually a nice guy. But I think you're caught up in the "l337" clique and overlooking a lot of **** for the sake of the opinions of people who like to spew crap but are good at Halo.
as far as i know i'm not caught up in any clique, especially the "1337" one because i am anything but "1337" when it comes to halo. i'm just posting my honest opinion and it has nothing to do with what anyone else thinks. but believe what you want.
what am i overlooking?




Thanks for showing me those quotes. At least someone here.
no problem. do you see how ignorant bungie can be now?




We had some really fun games and I don't recall you ever hating on the game so much until you started in these debates.
back when we first started playing together i didn't realize all the flaws in this game. largely because i never had the pleasure of playing alot of h1. but after playing this game for several months the games flaws started becoming very apparent to me.
and after going back and playing halo 1 again i realized to an even greater extent how flawed this game is.

besides i think we had a little discussion right when we started playing together about h1 vs h2 and you made it very clear that you thought halo 2 was much better(and that was pre-update!), so i really didn't want to get into that whole argument with you becase it seemed like your mind was already made up, and in alot of ways i was yet to realize everything that's wrong with this game.



H1>H2<H1



and if they already have halo 3 done, then i'm pretty sure it will be a dissapointment for me and alot of others....because bungie has not changed/and does not realize some of the big flaws with H2, and i'm going to assume those will carry over into H3 aswell....sigh.


halo 1 is such a great game, and it took playing h2 for several months for me to realize just how and why h1 is soo great.

[MikeMan91389]

bump it up.

[LiquidX]

Please don't bump this thread. It's been debated over 11 pages, no need to keep beating a dead horse. If something new worth debating comes up, bring this thread back. Just don't bump it to keep it at the top.

[MikeMan91389]

haha, good one, meanwhile it has as many views as the GT list thread, and is by far the most sucessful thread on these forums..


I also tried to change the title but it didnt change to it, only the title of my post did

if you could 'super mod' change it to: Halo1 >=< Halo2 ** DEBATE **

EDIT - Thank you... looks hawt

[Ninjermy]

Halo2 has live, Halo1 doesn't.
Debate over
























haha fine, but seriously folks, halo1 could be lightyears better then halo2, but just the fact that halo2 is on XBL makes it so i havent even considered touching my copy of halo1 in months!

[LoRd StOnEpAw]

XBConnect is the answer. Come young ones, I shall show you the light.