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Spaztic
05-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Nice side by side....

PS3 is more powerful and includes Blu-Ray. I wonder if it will be the same price as the Xbox360?

Link (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614783p1.html)

mattgame
05-17-2005, 11:22 AM
I thought they were not going to do blue ray, and were going to use a different format. Also I'm no techie, how is the ps3 more powerful?
Another thing Sony is going to charge out of the ass for their console.

LiquidX
05-17-2005, 11:46 AM
Its more powerful on paper. Basically, it can do more calulations per second. Im wondering what the "256MB XDR @ 3.2GHz" is and how it could help with gaming.

IMO, the cell chip is hype. I dont remember readinganything from developers but I would think a new type of processor would be hard to program for until about a year or two into its use.

mattgame
05-17-2005, 11:50 AM
More calculations per second means tighter graphics and smoother gameplay?

Spaztic
05-17-2005, 12:14 PM
The big problem I see with the ps3 is that programmers haven't really used the cell chip as a processor in gaming. Yeah, it can do 2 teraflops but that is a spec Sony has provided and then they provide no info on how they got it. In any college logic class, sonys statement would be illogical.

Having a lack of experence with hardware can kill a games innovation. What good is 2 teraflops if programmers only know how to use 1/10th of it. Sony hands down has better hardware but are they going to provide programming tools that allow developers to exploit the hardware or is it going to be up to the developers to find out for themselves? Microsoft has been very upfront about creating tools that make game development easy and drive costs down during production. If Sony dosn't anwser with a solution more and more developers will be forced jump to Xbox 360.

mattgame
05-17-2005, 12:25 PM
Shaggy you are pure genius. So we may still beat Sony down because they are going to be too costly to develop for right?

TRSundown
05-17-2005, 12:36 PM
Its more powerful on paper. Basically, it can do more calulations per second. Im wondering what the "256MB XDR @ 3.2GHz" is and how it could help with gaming.

Even thought X-Box 360 has 512 MB of memory it only runs at 700MHz... This limits the speed at which the processor can access that memory.

With the PS3 memory being only half that of the X-Box 360 most would see it as a disadvantage but the PS3 processor can access the memory at 3.2GHz... or almost 5 times per every 1 time on the X-Box. This is a massive advantage for the PS3.

SHAGGY... Your right. The programmers are on a harder learning curve than with the new X-Box BUT... they also have more power to work with. I can almost guarantee you that PS3 developers are working over time to be up on their learning curve and will be turning out games just as fast as X-Box.

My main concern is that if the PS3 has a new processor will it be backwards compatible with the old PS games.

mattgame
05-17-2005, 12:39 PM
[QUOTE=LiquidX-XBA]Its more powerful on paper. Basically, it can do more calulations per second. Im wondering what the "256MB XDR @ 3.2GHz" is and how it could help with gaming.\QUOTE]

Even thought X-Box 360 has 512 MB of memory it only runs at 700MHz... This limits the speed at which the processor can access that memory.

With the PS3 memory being only half that of the X-Box 360 most would see it as a disadvantage but the PS3 processor can access the memory at 3.2GHz... or almost 5 times per every 1 time on the X-Box. This is a massive advantage for the PS3.

SHAGGY... Your right. The programmers are on a harder learning curve than with the new X-Box BUT... they also have more power to work with. I can almost guarantee you that PS3 developers are working over time to be up on their learning curve and will be turning out games just as fast as X-Box.

My main concern is that if the PS3 has a new processor will it be backwards compatible with the old PS games.

They said it will be compatible all the way back to the ps1. So the ps3 is the better system?

skorp
05-17-2005, 01:16 PM
It's hard to compare both system's when they're running new technology... It's just hard to say.

The one thing that makes me wonder is....

What will be the Japanese (and whoever else) excuse this time when they try to use hardware size as an issue, with the X360 listed at 10.25" x 2.5" in dimension to PS3's 13.5" x 3.25" in comparison?

:rofl:

X-Fan
05-17-2005, 01:17 PM
yes but the xbox360 will have a year head start over the ps3 and you know what happened last time when an inferior console got a head start on a harware wise superior console *cough* xbox/ps2 *cough* .

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 01:19 PM
As for programming, the Unreal folks got the Unreal Engine up and running in less than 2 months. They specifically said it was very easy to program for, so that probably puts those worries to rest. That appears to have been a big issue with both X2 and PS3, getting a platform that is universally easy to program for. It appears both have succeded, going by what has been seen and said.

I gotta say though, the Cell has lived up to the hype in what it can do for video. Decoding 12 HD streams at once! Your average PC has trouble with one and your top of the line PC can do 2, maybe 3. That's impressive.

techie
05-17-2005, 01:28 PM
There are pros and cons to both systems. To a certain point
they almost cancel each other out and become equal. I think
that this time around most people will either buy a system
due to loyalty and/or games as opposed to who has the most
horsepower under the cover.

From a strickly technicial standpoint the PS3 is the better system.

However, better is relative.

With new technology it will take time for programmers to learn to
use the potential that the PS3 has to offer. Most likely what you
are going to see is only the better developers with some of the
best programmers are going to be turning out games with the "WOW"
factor. Also I believe you will see longer developement cycles for
games that going to be designed to impress unless Sony provides
a better developement kit to make it easier to program with. But then
again, maybe they already have.

Spaztic
05-17-2005, 01:46 PM
There are pros and cons to both systems. To a certain point
they almost cancel each other out and become equal. I think
that this time around most people will either buy a system
due to loyalty and/or games as opposed to who has the most
horsepower under the cover.

From a strickly technicial standpoint the PS3 is the better system.

However, better is relative.

With new technology it will take time for programmers to learn to
use the potential that the PS3 has to offer. Most likely what you
are going to see is only the better developers with some of the
best programmers are going to be turning out games with the "WOW"
factor. Also I believe you will see longer developement cycles for
games that going to be designed to impress unless Sony provides
a better developement kit to make it easier to program with. But then
again, maybe they already have.


I agree, we will probably see better games on the xbox360 sooner, but ps3 has better potential. Honestly it comes down to what games you want to play. Both are really similar. I am curious what Sony expects to charge for this thing? It has to pretty expensive...

X-Fan
05-17-2005, 01:53 PM
I agree, we will probably see better games on the xbox360 sooner, but ps3 has better potential. Honestly it comes down to what games you want to play. Both are really similar. I am curious what Sony expects to charge for this thing? It has to pretty expensive...

I dont think sony would be able to lose as much money on each console as MS can. so i think it will be atleast 50 dollars more than the xbox 360's launch price.

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 02:06 PM
Yeah game development time is going to be interesting. There were some titles that took 3+ years on the Xbox, and some even scrapped after that amount of time (some say due to limitations with the current hardware).

The launch titles from both systems will really show what can be done in short development cycles taking into concideration that the first gen will also have that learning curve. I don't think the X2 or PS3 has an advantage with the learning curve. They both are on new architectures. Even though the powerpc chips are in Macs, you don't see games being developed for that platform, only ports which have always shown to take quite a bit of time.

Hopefully with strong game engines such as Unreal 3 engine will free up a lot of dev time.

Launch times will be under 6 months apart, so any extra time the PS3 devs have, won't be much.

mattgame
05-17-2005, 02:11 PM
I know that microsoft designed this system to be developer friendly, meaning easier to use and make a profit off of right? So ps3 is going for the more powerful system so they will catch a lot of people who go for the eye candy.

My thing is I think microsoft will lead this gen war because their online capabilites. I think they are going to blow ps3 away with that.

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 02:23 PM
We still haven't heard anything about Sony's online plans have we? I don't recall anything about it in their keynote, at least not covering multiplayer.

From what we have seen MS has the best online plan, but still nothing I would pay for. If Sony gives online play for free, I think that would be a big blow to MS even if their service is better.

MixMasta
05-17-2005, 02:30 PM
We still haven't heard anything about Sony's online plans have we? I don't recall anything about it in their keynote, at least not covering multiplayer.

From what we have seen MS has the best online plan, but still nothing I would pay for. If Sony gives online play for free, I think that would be a big blow to MS even if their service is better.

They annouced a few things though, I think video chat and messaging. Let me find an article.

EDIT: Something I find really interesting:
Dimensions About 13.5" x 3.25" About 10.25" x 2.5"

The PS3 is larger than the Xbox 360. So how will the Japanese react to this, since they complained about the Xbox's size before? With Square on board, things are looking bright for the Xbox 360 in Japan.

techie
05-17-2005, 02:43 PM
Price on the PS3 is going to be a tough one to figure out.

Sony has two new technologies plus a new proprietary dev
kit that will need to be figured into the price. Anytime
you have new technology, there is usually the associated
high price for early adaptors involved. Most companies
will charge a high price in the beginning knowing that only
the people who either want bleeding edge technology or
the bragging rights will spend the money to have their
product. This provides two things in general, revenue to
continue putting out the product and time for the majority
of people to accept the product and begin to purchase
allowing the price to come down as volume is increased.

Sony is different in a couple of respects.

Sony has never given their technology away, you pay for
it.

This time around they have a alternative reason for wanting
the PS3 to succeed, high definition video. Sony has already
invested a lot of money into Blue-Ray and purchased several
major studio video libraries. Sony alone now has the single
largest video library in the world. If they can put out the PS3
at a price point that will allow them to quickly saturate the market
then they will have the ability to push Blue-Ray as the HD
standard due to a large installed base of Blue-Ray capable
products.

Price high or price low, either way it will be a gamble on Sony's part.

Sammael
05-17-2005, 03:15 PM
Yes but Sony won't be implementing the beauty of XNA like MS will.

wbio
05-17-2005, 03:19 PM
I might just have to get a 360 and a PS3 (if I can gather up the money), assuming the PS3 has plenty of good games.

Uchiha Sasuke
05-17-2005, 03:31 PM
Yeah graphically the PS3 is going to be more powerful, plus for those who have development kits say the PS3 is a breeze to develop for. I suggest everyone check out Sony's Keynote on Gamespot. They got free streaming and such, lasts about an hour and a half. Got some pretty good insight on what there planning to do, and a online service to rival Live. So check it out. This console race looks to be a damn interesting one.

MerimacHamwich
05-17-2005, 03:32 PM
The memory specs aren't directly comparable and the memory speeds only matter if the bus speeds are as high as the highest memory speed. So disregard the memory speeds for now. One important thing to note is, the PS3 has 512mb of system memory. The Xbox has 512mb and then it also has the 10mb of D-Ram. This ram as was stated many times before is used for the purpose of anti-aliasing. So while the PS3 will run anti-aliasing with thier system ram (which is taxing even on the best computers out now) the XBox has extra memory dedicated to that task.

I think graphically the Xbox 360 has the edge, even though the PS3 supposedly has a GPU with 50mhz more core speed. The thing the PS3 has over the Xbox 360 is the ability to use Dual HDTV's, thus the 7 controllers. And that is very enticing to me.

-edit-
It is also important to note that graphics don't heavily rely on processor speed. As is seen on PC's the graphics generally come down to the GPU powering the system. The processor comes in when you start talking Artificial Intelligence and such, as well as LynxFX said, decoding video streams and such.

Uchiha Sasuke
05-17-2005, 03:37 PM
The memory specs aren't directly comparable and the memory speeds only matter if the bus speeds are as high as the highest memory speed. So disregard the memory speeds for now. One important thing to note is, the PS3 has 512mb of system memory. The Xbox has 512mb and then it also has the 10mb of D-Ram. This ram as was stated many times before is used for the purpose of anti-aliasing. So while the PS3 will run anti-aliasing with thier system ram (which is taxing even on the best computers out now) the XBox has extra memory dedicated to that task.

I think graphically the Xbox 360 has the edge, even though the PS3 supposedly has a GPU with 50mhz more core speed. The thing the PS3 has over the Xbox 360 is the ability to use Dual HDTV's, thus the 7 controllers. And that is very enticing to me.


Seriously Ham watch the sony press conference. I was thinking the same thing, until they went out to explain the many things about how the system is set up. Hell the CPU and GPU process 35gb/s between the two chips. Thats blasing fast.

Spaztic
05-17-2005, 03:54 PM
Yeah graphically the PS3 is going to be more powerful, plus for those who have development kits say the PS3 is a breeze to develop for. I suggest everyone check out Sony's Keynote on Gamespot. They got free streaming and such, lasts about an hour and a half. Got some pretty good insight on what there planning to do, and a online service to rival Live. So check it out. This console race looks to be a damn interesting one.

After some more research I have found this:

Before you all splooge over the sheer terafloppage of the new PlayStation, let me point out Amdahl's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law).

Basically, the high number of floating point operations is incredibly optimistic on Sony's part due to the use of a cell architecture. I don't know too much about the PlayStation 3's architecture, but I'd imagine it's also subject to the Von Neumann bottleneck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture). That is, there will be so much memory being copied from one area to another across the bus (from texture maps to a 3d model, for example) that the PlayStation won't possibly be using every bit of processor simultaneously. Expect the PlayStation 3's 2 teraflops to behave like the XBox 360's single teraflop.

Interesting.....

Also doing some research on Blu-Ray...It is basiclly all owned by sony. Sony is taking a huge gamble here. Blu-Ray is great, but honestly it is to ahead of its time. People are not going to flock out and start rebuying there dvd collections at a higher cost for a little bit better picture. Most people don't own HD due to price and instability in the changing technology. Blu-Ray is pretty much fluff at this point....

So...

I pretty much say Xbox all the way for me!

AlphaRaptor
05-17-2005, 04:03 PM
Where can you download the sony press conference? and the ms press conference?

Shadow20002
05-17-2005, 04:21 PM
I don't even care about the specs....Tecmo where are you going? I'm with you then. ;)

MerimacHamwich
05-17-2005, 04:25 PM
The PS3 conference sure is boring. The funny part is that you can tell the audience has no idea what the guys are talking about when it comes to the tech stuff.

Huckleberry
05-17-2005, 04:37 PM
two things...

most likely, by the time developers start to tap into the complete abilities of either of these systems, the next 360 and ps4 will be announced. it takes a long time with a system to maximize it...it's why the game engines keep getting better...because they're taking more advantage of the power of the system....using it more effieciently. so while, if you had to choose between a pentium 3 and a 64-bit processor you could decide easily enough, this will come down to who takes best advantage of the abilities of the machines. and 85% of the games out there don't push the xbox and ps2 in any way.

secondly, if sony did offer free online play, which i doubt, it wouldn't deter me from paying my 4 bucks a month for xbox live. i can live with that amount anytime for the number of games it covers. i would never pay 13 bucks a month for one game (isn't that about what WoW runs?), but 4 for a myriad of games? no problem...even if the ps3 is free.

SPARTAN VI
05-17-2005, 05:14 PM
I'm getting both! 2x w00ts for have a job! :cheers:

Great time to be a gamer. :cool:

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 06:19 PM
Also doing some research on Blu-Ray...It is basiclly all owned by sony. Sony is taking a huge gamble here. Blu-Ray is great, but honestly it is to ahead of its time. People are not going to flock out and start rebuying there dvd collections at a higher cost for a little bit better picture. Most people don't own HD due to price and instability in the changing technology. Blu-Ray is pretty much fluff at this point....
No offense, but your research is wrong. First things, the Blu-ray Group (not to be confused with the Blue Man Group ;) ) is a consortum of over 100 major consumer electronics and information technology companies. The tech itself was developed by Sony along with top companies like Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, TDK, Thomson and others. Sony gets the biggest royalty check, but they aren't alone in the format.

Your other point is highly debatable and has been debated over the past 3 years with the ongoing preperations to bring prerecorded HD to the masses. But one thing is not debatable, the picture. It isn't 'a little bit better', it is a great deal better and the very reason both companies are touting their consoles ability to display games in HD. For ****s and giggles, change your monitor resolution to 640x480, then change it to 1920x1080 (if can even go that high) and see the difference.

Also, there is no instability in the technolgoy of HD. It is an ATSC standard just like regular NTSC television. It has been for the past 10 years. It isn't changing. The only change that has been going on is the cable connections due to Hollywood and their MPAA induced panic about piracy.

With the current talks of HD-DVD and Blu-ray merging (a pissing contest right now) Blu-ray just played one helluva trump card by officially declaring its presense in the PS3 which on day one will give it a customer base of a couple million and for a pricepoint under $500.

Blu-ray is hardly fluff. :cheers:

Funny, MS cheered about the X2 being the HD Era yet it can't do two major aspects of HD. Display in 1080p and play next gen Pre-recorded movies in HD.

MixMasta
05-17-2005, 06:24 PM
I'll probably get the PS3 for the HDTV recording function now that I think about it. But I am getting the Xbox 360 on launch day for sure still.

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 07:49 PM
Yeah, going back over some of the videos for both systems, this might be the first time I actually go for two systems.

Ahhh need more input Johnny 5!! :D

Uchiha Sasuke
05-17-2005, 08:00 PM
Where can you download the sony press conference? and the ms press conference?

Just go to gamespot.com and go to ps3 or xbox360 and they should have the press conferences right on the front page. Then just choose stream for free if they prompt you.

mattgame
05-17-2005, 08:07 PM
So if you only had 500 bucks and had to choose one would you guys get the xbox 360 or the PS3 based on the information and specs and not loyalty to a system?

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 08:10 PM
Not loyal to any company but have always managed to just have one system each generation.

NES
Genesis
PS1
Xbox
And in your situation, PS3 based on what we've seen.

Stormlord
05-17-2005, 08:54 PM
I'm really impressed by both systems. However so far the PS3's graphics look even better than Half-Life 2. I don't care which is more powerful but I'm already excited for both. Quake 4 and Ghost recon 3 for Xbox, while Killzone and Killing Day on Ps3. Next-Gen war is going to be the most interesting console war of them all.

Scorpion X
05-17-2005, 09:46 PM
I recall reading of a possibility of MS updating their nex gen box every 6 months to always have the lead and be a strong competitor, if their words are true then sony might have a run for their money

LynxFX
05-17-2005, 11:03 PM
I recall reading of a possibility of MS updating their nex gen box every 6 months to always have the lead and be a strong competitor, if their words are true then sony might have a run for their money
There's no way they would or are going to do that. Just one of those fabled rumors that got started on the net just for the sake of starting a rumor.

mattgame
05-17-2005, 11:13 PM
Could they go back and change anything knowing what Sony is going to do?

MerimacHamwich
05-17-2005, 11:31 PM
Doubt it mattgame. But don't get all riled up, the difference isn't that big.
It's much less than the PS2 vs Xbox gap.

I'd also like to note that according to G4TechTV all the videos shown for PS3 thus far, excluding the Unreal 3 Engine demo, are pre-rendered CG movies. Thus, not ingame quality graphics, just what they are saying ingame will look like.

Spaztic
05-18-2005, 07:27 AM
No offense, but your research is wrong. First things, the Blu-ray Group (not to be confused with the Blue Man Group ;) ) is a consortum of over 100 major consumer electronics and information technology companies. The tech itself was developed by Sony along with top companies like Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, TDK, Thomson and others. Sony gets the biggest royalty check, but they aren't alone in the format.

Your other point is highly debatable and has been debated over the past 3 years with the ongoing preperations to bring prerecorded HD to the masses. But one thing is not debatable, the picture. It isn't 'a little bit better', it is a great deal better and the very reason both companies are touting their consoles ability to display games in HD. For ****s and giggles, change your monitor resolution to 640x480, then change it to 1920x1080 (if can even go that high) and see the difference.

Also, there is no instability in the technolgoy of HD. It is an ATSC standard just like regular NTSC television. It has been for the past 10 years. It isn't changing. The only change that has been going on is the cable connections due to Hollywood and their MPAA induced panic about piracy.

With the current talks of HD-DVD and Blu-ray merging (a pissing contest right now) Blu-ray just played one helluva trump card by officially declaring its presense in the PS3 which on day one will give it a customer base of a couple million and for a pricepoint under $500.

Blu-ray is hardly fluff. :cheers:

Funny, MS cheered about the X2 being the HD Era yet it can't do two major aspects of HD. Display in 1080p and play next gen Pre-recorded movies in HD.


Well...all I got to say is BluRays sucess remains to be seen. I don't see people ditching dvd that easily, especially if BluRays is going to be $10-$20 bucks more. Dvd's are way overpriced as it is. Do you want to pay almost double the amount of a DVD when you can get the samething with a little bit lower resolution? A few (LynxFX) might, I am afraid to say that most the US will choose the cheaper option. You even stated in your post that Sony gets the biggest check, why the hell whould they put any other drive in the ps3? The company that owns the biggest piece usually owns most control for the product. If BluRay does fail I guarentee the PS3 will not look as hot! Sony is taking a huge risk, will it pay off? Not if MS can help it.

Honestly I feel the new trend is going to be downloadable HD movies....MS has a large vested interest in the endevor. Just think of a device (new xbox after the 360) with one terabyte harddrive. HD movies on demand to rent, also purchases of HD movies downloaded directly to your harddrive without having to leave your house. Movies will be cheap becuase the packing and shipping is completely done away with. The movie industry will jump on the coattails of anyone offering a profit. With Microsofts limitless capital it is just a matter of time. The xbox is just pulling in the market until they pull the rug out from under the competition. What do you think xbox live is? It is just a testing ground for there new ideas, community, and lifestyle.

Software will one day control the media, not hardware. My prediction, take it of leave it.

Besides I thought it was about the games?

X-Fan
05-18-2005, 08:34 AM
Well...all I got to say is BluRays sucess remains to be seen. I don't see people ditching dvd that easily, especially if BluRays is going to be $10-$20 bucks more. Dvd's are way overpriced as it is. Do you want to pay almost double the amount of a DVD when you can get the samething with a little bit lower resolution? A few (LynxFX) might, I am afraid to say that most the US will choose the cheaper option. You even stated in your post that Sony gets the biggest check, why the hell whould they put any other drive in the ps3? The company that owns the biggest piece usually owns most control for the product. If BluRay does fail I guarentee the PS3 will not look as hot! Sony is taking a huge risk, will it pay off? Not if MS can help it.

Honestly I feel the new trend is going to be downloadable HD movies....MS has a large vested interest in the endevor. Just think of a device (new xbox after the 360) with one terabyte harddrive. HD movies on demand to rent, also purchases of HD movies downloaded directly to your harddrive without having to leave your house. Movies will be cheap becuase the packing and shipping is completely done away with. The movie industry will jump on the coattails of anyone offering a profit. With Microsofts limitless capital it is just a matter of time. The xbox is just pulling in the market until they pull the rug out from under the competition. What do you think xbox live is? It is just a testing ground for there new ideas, community, and lifestyle.

Software will one day control the media, not hardware. My prediction, take it of leave it.

Besides I thought it was about the games?

Very valid points made my man! i do agree with you when you say this:


The xbox is just pulling in the market until they pull the rug out from under the competition

PerfectDark0Fan
05-18-2005, 09:38 AM
PS3 is going to be under $500 according to http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/18/news_6125423.html

TOTTEN
05-18-2005, 09:44 AM
PS3 is going to be under $500 according to http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/18/news_6125423.html
Well thats too much and by being that expensive they have already got rid of many potential buyers.

StudioAlex
05-18-2005, 10:10 AM
I'm guessing the japanese will bear the brunt of the load. They will likely pay 100 to 150 dollars more for the system than will North America and Europe.

odpr
05-18-2005, 01:21 PM
seeing the movies, reading every thing I can, I came to the conclusion that ps three is much better stronger then the next Xbox, the next Xbox look the same as this one, I mean when looking on the games, they doesn't look as next gen, sure they look nice but not that amazing,
The funny stuff is to read people here in the forum saying ah.. The graphics doesn't matter what important is the games...

HELLOOO!!! Play station always has the better games@@!!

on this generation Xbox has the better graphics placation was sucked big time, but still people bought it ???? (why ? because eit has better games!! )


Xbox can close the gates .they can play as much as they want , but the next gen is for sure for the play staiton

what amazing me is those who say ahh, I don't mind I will buy both ...

Huckleberry
05-18-2005, 01:57 PM
i'll buy both...and the revolution, too. i love my xbox, but there are still games that i can only play on the other systems.

mattgame
05-18-2005, 02:38 PM
I think 360 is banking on not being that much weaker than the ps3, more functions, easier to work with, Xbox Live improved, and cheaper. I think if you look at it they are being smart about it. Sony has to go all out to try and make the better system because of the pressure Microsoft has put on them. The games are going to be cheaper and everything. I mean Sony says under 500, (499 is under 500). It's gonna be a good little battle

Stormlord
05-18-2005, 08:10 PM
Well I've thought about it for a while and realized that even though Xbox 360 is less powerful they can still do some back-door tricks to get the graphics to compete with PS3. Already, Gears of War looks like something that belongs on the PS3. However hearing that PS3 supports 1080p makes me angry that I bought a 1080i TV. I want true high-def damnit!

rolling stone
05-18-2005, 09:01 PM
i know nothing about the specs and tech-talk..it's all gibberish to me! does blu-ray mean that the games will be more expensive and harder to make when it is involved?

i find this discussion interesting, though, i'm learning a little bit from you guys. my stance is that they both sound pretty hardcore and i don't have the money to buy either right away on launch (yay....tuition :() so i'm definetly waiting for a price drop and by then i'm sure one will look more promising than the other.

LynxFX
05-18-2005, 10:33 PM
Well...all I got to say is BluRays sucess remains to be seen. I don't see people ditching dvd that easily, especially if BluRays is going to be $10-$20 bucks more. Dvd's are way overpriced as it is. Do you want to pay almost double the amount of a DVD when you can get the samething with a little bit lower resolution? A few (LynxFX) might, I am afraid to say that most the US will choose the cheaper option. You even stated in your post that Sony gets the biggest check, why the hell whould they put any other drive in the ps3? The company that owns the biggest piece usually owns most control for the product. If BluRay does fail I guarentee the PS3 will not look as hot! Sony is taking a huge risk, will it pay off? Not if MS can help it.

Blu-ray is already a success in Japan, has been for over a year and that was at a premium $3000 pricetag.

Next, you are just making up assumptions. DVD's overpriced? An opinon that you are intitled to, but $15-$20 for a hard copy of a movie vs $10 to see it once in a theatre. Seems reasonable to me, and they are cheaper than VHS was this early in its life. $10-$20 more for Blu-ray? Hah, yeah right. The media is around 5 cents more to manufacture. The studios have already found the sweet spot with DVD in pricing. Expect Blu-ray or whatever HD optical format to follow suit. Chances are that they will initially come out as a premium over the DVD counterpart, but you are looking at $5 but expect first week sales to be right along side DVDs.


Do you want to pay almost double the amount of a DVD when you can get the samething with a little bit lower resolution?
:bash: :bash: It's continued statements like that that makes this pointless in discussing with you. If you don't even understand what you are talking about, don't bother posting to knock it down.



Honestly I feel the new trend is going to be downloadable HD movies....MS has a large vested interest in the endevor. Just think of a device (new xbox after the 360) with one terabyte harddrive. HD movies on demand to rent, also purchases of HD movies downloaded directly to your harddrive without having to leave your house. Movies will be cheap becuase the packing and shipping is completely done away with. The movie industry will jump on the coattails of anyone offering a profit.
First off, between the two proposed HD Optical formats, there is a 100% support from Hollywood. 50% behind Blu-ray, 50% behind HD-DVD. The support for any form of downloadable HD movie content....zero. The movie industry will jump on anyone offering them a profit as long as their truly is a profit to be had, and it is secure. Downloadable movies shows neither. There also is little demand from the consumers for such a service.

But back to the formats that do have support, Sony now owns roughly 35% of Hollywood's movie Library. They could be the only company supporting it and it would still be successful in its own right with plenty of software to view. Only one company on the HD-DVD side diehard for the format and will probably stick with it until it dies, Warner Brothers. They also have a sizeable library. The rest of the studios have shown initial support for one format, but also have said they aren't exclusive. Now when PS3 launches with a Blu-ray drive and overnight there are over a million new customers ready for BR movies, vs HD-DVD that even though launched 6 months earlier is having trouble selling their ~$500 standalone players, where do you think the remaining studios are going to go for? You are probably thinking, but I don't have an HDTV and so don't a lot of Americans so BR movies won't be an improvement for me. That is one of the beauty aspecs of either HD format. DVD, while a great step forward and much improved over VHS, still suffers from over compression, artifacts, grain, haloing etc. An HD movie sampled down to standard def tv will look better than the same movie off of the DVD. Now slap that HD movie in an HDTV and you'll wince at watching normal tv again. You won't even enjoy OTA HD broadcasts as much as they are compressed as well.

Sony is currently holding a very big hand in the game of video format poker. And if Toshiba folds and the format merger goes through, the PS3 will have an even bigger edge of X2.

Hell say that the **** hits the fan and HD-DVD wins out, Blu-ray doesn't get movies, even Sony has to admit defeat and release their library on HD-DVD that doesn't mean that BR is dead or that it is useless in the PS3. Let alone the capability for 50gig dual layer, 100gig quad-layer, it has higher throughput for better bitrates, more advanced audio, also at higher bitrates, and a ceiling high enough that no developer will break it.

Sorry for the long winded response but it just seems people are dissing BR without even knowing what it is all about.


i know nothing about the specs and tech-talk..it's all gibberish to me! does blu-ray mean that the games will be more expensive and harder to make when it is involved?
Blu-ray is mearly a storage medium, a next gen storage medium based on a blue laser vs, DVD which is a red laser. The blue laser is finer, allowing for more information to be put on the disc. That's the real basics as there are many other details that seperate the two formats. It won't make games more expensive as the discs themselves are literally cents more than DVD's, and it will have zero impact on how hard a game is to make. Unless you are making a game that can't fit on 9 gigs (if we get there), then it makes it easier. ;)

Spaztic
05-19-2005, 09:23 AM
Blu-ray is already a success in Japan, has been for over a year and that was at a premium $3000 pricetag.

Japan has a completely different culture. To say something is sucessful in Japan does not say it will be sucessful in the US. You go to Japan and everyone has a plasma\lcd tv and phones with high resolution cameras and video conferencing. The US is just now getting mobile phones with 3mp cameras. That technology has been common place for about 5 years now. Technology is years ahead in Japan.


Next, you are justa making up assumptions. DVD's overpriced? An opinon that you are intitled to, but $15-$20 for a hard copy of a movie vs $10 to see it once in a theatre. Seems reasonable to me, and they are cheaper than VHS was this early in its life. $10-$20 more for Blu-ray? Hah, yeah right. The media is around 5 cents more to manufacture. The studios have already found the sweet spot with DVD in pricing. Expect Blu-ray or whatever HD optical format to follow suit. Chances are that they will initially come out as a premium over the DVD counterpart, but you are looking at $5 but expect first week sales to be right along side DVDs.

Again there is no proof on what Blu-Ray is going to cost when it comes out. It is all in the air at this point. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.


:bash: :bash: It's continued statements like that that makes this pointless in discussing with you. If you don't even understand what you are talking about, don't bother posting to knock it down.

I can understand your fustration when someone dosn't agree with you. Again we are debating theory not fact...



First off, between the two proposed HD Optical formats, there is a 100% support from Hollywood. 50% behind Blu-ray, 50% behind HD-DVD. The support for any form of downloadable HD movie content....zero. The movie industry will jump on anyone offering them a profit as long as their truly is a profit to be had, and it is secure. Downloadable movies shows neither. There also is little demand from the consumers for such a service.

But back to the formats that do have support, Sony now owns roughly 35% of Hollywood's movie Library. They could be the only company supporting it and it would still be successful in its own right with plenty of software to view. Only one company on the HD-DVD side diehard for the format and will probably stick with it until it dies, Warner Brothers. They also have a sizeable library. The rest of the studios have shown initial support for one format, but also have said they aren't exclusive. Now when PS3 launches with a Blu-ray drive and overnight there are over a million new customers ready for BR movies, vs HD-DVD that even though launched 6 months earlier is having trouble selling their ~$500 standalone players, where do you think the remaining studios are going to go for? You are probably thinking, but I don't have an HDTV and so don't a lot of Americans so BR movies won't be an improvement for me. That is one of the beauty aspecs of either HD format. DVD, while a great step forward and much improved over VHS, still suffers from over compression, artifacts, grain, haloing etc. An HD movie sampled down to standard def tv will look better than the same movie off of the DVD. Now slap that HD movie in an HDTV and you'll wince at watching normal tv again. You won't even enjoy OTA HD broadcasts as much as they are compressed as well.

Sony is currently holding a very big hand in the game of video format poker. And if Toshiba folds and the format merger goes through, the PS3 will have an even bigger edge of X2.

Hell say that the **** hits the fan and HD-DVD wins out, Blu-ray doesn't get movies, even Sony has to admit defeat and release their library on HD-DVD that doesn't mean that BR is dead or that it is useless in the PS3. Let alone the capability for 50gig dual layer, 100gig quad-layer, it has higher throughput for better bitrates, more advanced audio, also at higher bitrates, and a ceiling high enough that no developer will break it.

Sorry for the long winded response but it just seems people are dissing BR without even knowing what it is all about.

Good stuff. Granted it remains to be seen what happens. Worst case senerio is that PS3 has great copy protection becuase of blu-ray. I am excited to see how it all pans out....

I understand that you are a strong supporter of blu-ray. I to would like to have a better medium. I just want to see one that is agreed upon and cost effictive. I shutter when thinking about being able to burn 50gb to a disk!!!

As far as the downloaded hd, that is way off in the future. Oviously download speeds and software will have to be updated. I was just stating that MS knows this and is already aligned for it. Sony is bickering about the now. Ms is waiting for domination in the future.

odpr
05-20-2005, 07:53 AM
now we hear that the Backward of the new Xbox won't be that backward...

So annoying...

I just hope Microsoft know what they are doing because, from where I look they
Doesn’t have a clue..

We have to see if the play station will deliver what they promised on the show..If so I really can't see any good reason to buy the new Xbox.

More then that, all the new systems will have a online option, taking the fact that Xbox never had any huge game (don't say HALO ..I am going to puke, this is simple FPS that was over hyped..) And only Sony had the huge hits, the only reason people bought the Xbox (including me ) was the fact that it has much better technology , and I knew that most of the games will come eventually to the box.

But now this I s different, the play station is offering (at least on the paper) a better machine, considering the fact that the best games (and actually all games) available to play station, give me one good reason to buy Xbox (don't say HALO again.. please..)

ShannonX
05-20-2005, 12:27 PM
ahh yes, these "debates" remind me fondly of the "debates" about 3 1/2 years ago.

Stormlord
05-20-2005, 07:58 PM
But now this I s different, the play station is offering (at least on the paper) a better machine, considering the fact that the best games (and actually all games) available to play station, give me one good reason to buy Xbox (don't say HALO again.. please..)

3 words, Gears of War. It's built from the ground up for Xbox 360 and they say will remain an Xbox 360 exclusive. Plus the Unreal 3.0 engine is the official engine to show off the 360's power so expect a lot of great looking games for the system. Let's just hope they can make the games actually fun instead of jsut eye candy.

J3bus WTF
05-21-2005, 02:27 AM
Guys, Guys, both systems' specs are pretty nice, but you are forgetting something, the GAMES. There are more casual gamers than hardcore, those casual gamers want to play good GAMES, not whether the system they are using is BETTER. Besides, look at xbox 360. We have a partnership with the guy who created FINAL FANTASY. Also we have Halo 3 coming out, AND Xbox Live is now AMAZING. I would like to see what ps3 is going to conjure up for an online service. Bottom line is, Xbox is gonna kick the shiz outta ps3 cause its comin out half a year earlier. :hump:

odpr
05-21-2005, 07:54 AM
games?
isn't the playstation has all the best games all the time ?

And stop with this FPSD!! when will someone in the states will understand that most people who buy consoles HATE HATE HATE simply HATE! FPS!! (Those who buy it in Europe, Australia, Japan and more.,..) Only the states like the FPS, and how many times can you like the same game over and over again ?
Unreal, halo, gears of war, doom All this EXECTLY EXECTLY the same game!

If Xbox going to kick in with only FPS and Sports game, it will sell good in the states that's for sure, but not in Europe or Japan or Australia or any continent what so ever..

(but I guess this is not important to Microsoft..)

squid413
05-21-2005, 03:41 PM
games?
isn't the playstation has all the best games all the time ?

And stop with this FPSD!! when will someone in the states will understand that most people who buy consoles HATE HATE HATE simply HATE! FPS!! (Those who buy it in Europe, Australia, Japan and more.,..) Only the states like the FPS, and how many times can you like the same game over and over again ?
Unreal, halo, gears of war, doom All this EXECTLY EXECTLY the same game!

If Xbox going to kick in with only FPS and Sports game, it will sell good in the states that's for sure, but not in Europe or Japan or Australia or any continent what so ever..

(but I guess this is not important to Microsoft..)

Playstation the best games??? name one game that isn't on xbox or going to be on xbox? Also Final Fantasy is confirmed for the xbox 360 so it is not a playstation exclusive anymore.

Anyway on to the hardware, I don't think its a good idea to only have the xbox 360 wifi ready when both the PS3 and the Revolution are going to have wifi built in. I mean i guess its the same concept as the dvd pack for the xbox, but it would still be nice to have it built in. And i don't know how good of an idea it is for microsoft not to implement Blu Ray or HD DVD into the system. One of those will be mainstream in a couple of years, and people won't be able to use the Xbox 360 for those. And the PS3 may sell just because its a Blu Ray player for under $500.

odpr
05-21-2005, 03:59 PM
Ratchet and clank
Devil mry Cry

And this is major hits,
the thing should be upside down means :
Every you can play on the Playstation, true you can get them (some of them on the Box) but now with the new technology ahead, give me one good reason to buy the box ?

Scorpion X
05-22-2005, 03:22 PM
Too many people are judging the 360 graphics capabilities because of the video's of in-game footage that were shown at E3, the graphics were better than this gen yet people keep saying that they were like this gen but that is because the hardware and graphics capabilities aren't fully utilized and they were using farging this generation xbox developer kits to show you the 360's games i don't think we should have ourselves married to one system before they come out because things are subject to change.

mattgame
05-22-2005, 04:10 PM
I'm understanding now that the 360 is the more powerful machine.

AlphaRaptor
05-22-2005, 09:18 PM
Yup, in a gaming sense it is, which is what counts. Sony has just done a good job at over hyping the PS3's specs and showing pretty CG video's....

Variation-XBA
05-22-2005, 10:00 PM
So if you only had 500 bucks and had to choose one would you guys get the xbox 360 or the PS3 based on the information and specs and not loyalty to a system?
Neither till I see launch games I want for both.


My thing is I think microsoft will lead this gen war because their online capabilites. I think they are going to blow ps3 away with that.

Sony is making a "LIVE" service for ps3 as well with the same ideas. No info on it but they are doing it.

odpr
05-23-2005, 10:17 AM
yes yes we heard that the Xbox has better hardware even in this fight, and guess what even the famous splinter ell which Microsoft claim over and over that it won't be able to turn on playstation , it runs smoothly wit no different at all..

so again playstion will win without any prob, I mean in states it won't
maybe because you guys have this habit to buy all t the system, but in the rest of the world we chose one and get stick with it..

AlphaRaptor
05-23-2005, 10:59 AM
yes yes we heard that the Xbox has better hardware even in this fight, and guess what even the famous splinter ell which Microsoft claim over and over that it won't be able to turn on playstation , it runs smoothly wit no different at all..

so again playstion will win without any prob, I mean in states it won't
maybe because you guys have this habit to buy all t the system, but in the rest of the world we chose one and get stick with it..
You say that with a lot of blind confidence. :p

Shadow20002
05-23-2005, 03:45 PM
Why Microsoft still using DVD DL for the next-gen?

thunderkiss2k1
05-23-2005, 08:44 PM
I reserved Xbox 360 already. The price I was given was $299.99. It cost me $50 to reserve.

odpr
05-25-2005, 08:54 AM
if you have money to throw ..then hell why not,.

lllSmokelll
05-25-2005, 11:44 AM
XBOX360 is gona sell like half of wut Xbox sold in japan if PS3 is more powerful

SPARTAN VI
05-25-2005, 05:17 PM
isn't the playstation has all the best games all the time ?

And stop with this FPSD!! when will someone in the states will understand that most people who buy consoles HATE HATE HATE simply HATE! FPS!! (Those who buy it in Europe, Australia, Japan and more.,..) Only the states like the FPS, and how many times can you like the same game over and over again ?
Unreal, halo, gears of war, doom All this EXECTLY EXECTLY the same game!

If Xbox going to kick in with only FPS and Sports game, it will sell good in the states that's for sure, but not in Europe or Japan or Australia or any continent what so ever..

(but I guess this is not important to Microsoft..)

Only the states? Have you heard of Europe? Y'know, the Swedes are quite Quake freaky.


yes yes we heard that the Xbox has better hardware even in this fight, and guess what even the famous splinter ell which Microsoft claim over and over that it won't be able to turn on playstation , it runs smoothly wit no different at all..

You've got to be joking. You didn't notice the difference between the two platforms?

:rolleyes:

Now I have to go get screenshots...

Xbox
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/592/592847/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory-20050302044543406.jpg

Same room on PS2
http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/596/596083/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory-20050315110047422.jpg

Pandora Tomorrow is worse:

Xbox:
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/scpandorat_032204_013.jpg

PS2:
http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/521/521184/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-pandora-tomorrow-20040604104250384.jpg


Good job Ubisoft; doing what you can with the twigs the PS2 calls hardware. Gave them a taste what Xbox/PC gamers enjoy so much.


PS2 can't do shadows. There I said it. What crap does it run on? DirectX 6?

TheCovenant
05-26-2005, 06:16 AM
Only the states? Have you heard of Europe? Y'know, the Swedes are quite Quake freaky.



You've got to be joking. You didn't notice the difference between the two platforms?

:rolleyes:

Now I have to go get screenshots...

Xbox
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/592/592847/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory-20050302044543406.jpg

Same room on PS2
http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/596/596083/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory-20050315110047422.jpg

Pandora Tomorrow is worse:

Xbox:
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/scpandorat_032204_013.jpg

PS2:
http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/521/521184/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-pandora-tomorrow-20040604104250384.jpg


Good job Ubisoft; doing what you can with the twigs the PS2 calls hardware. Gave them a taste what Xbox/PC gamers enjoy so much.


PS2 can't do shadows. There I said it. What crap does it run on? DirectX 6?


the emotion engine is more powerful than you think. Its just a complicated mess to program for. After 18 months of crackin it, President of shiny entertainment Dave Perry has actually uncovered a way to do normal mapping on the ps2, along with bump mapping, and proper lighting (bloom, gloom and umbra), all while keeping a smooth framerate. This is all for the current gen game The Matrix: path of neo. They did do a lot with the character models in "Enter the Matrix", so its no big surprise what they've done with this title.

anyways, just wanted to elaborate on the "ps2 doesnt do shadows" comment. Don't worry sparty, this comment will go ignored, as most smart comments are (cough*lynx*cough)

odpr
05-26-2005, 07:54 AM
welp, true the Xbox is morwe powerful then the ps, so ?


tell me what are you going to buy ?
a new playstation with better hardware then the xbox plus more games or xbox inferior hardware and with no games...

yes take a micron second to think about it..

(and don't tell me HALO..please... )

TheCovenant
05-26-2005, 04:06 PM
welp, true the Xbox is morwe powerful then the ps, so ?


tell me what are you going to buy ?
a new playstation with better hardware then the xbox plus more games or xbox inferior hardware and with no games...

yes take a micron second to think about it..

(and don't tell me HALO..please... )

im actually really looking forward to:

Gears of War
Quake 4
Kameo elements of power
Perfect Dark Zero

For the ps3 im waiting for them to announce killzone was not real time. Sorry, in the games and graphics, i didnt see anything that far between the 360 and the ps3 for me to go "now thats way better", but i did see a lot of playable games of the 360 where i just though "i want this". So right now, the 360 looks to be the best of all three still, however if the playstation actually gets a game that i want (well actually, if it gets at least 4 or 5 games that i want) then i will gladly buy a ps3.

And yes, halo 3 is definatly on my positive outlook horizon. :cool:

StudioAlex
05-26-2005, 04:25 PM
tell me what are you going to buy ?
a new playstation with better hardware then the xbox plus more games or xbox inferior hardware and with no games...

yes take a micron second to think about it..

(and don't tell me HALO..please... )Geez, give it a rest. I'm so sure the new Xbox will have no games. And also, more games doesn't mean better. Sony is notorious for letting any piece of crap be released for their systems. On the other end of the spectrum would be Nintendo who are highly selective--at least back in the day when people wanted to release stuff on their systems. Mircosoft would be about in the middle in terms of selectiveness.

Anyway, there is a lot to be excited about for the Xbox 360. Right now I'm mostly interested in the new Elder Scrolls, as well as the two upcoming games from Mistwalker. Also, with FF no longer exclusive to Sony, I'd have to say a large reason why I own Sony products has been taken away.

And, of course, Halo is another reason. Why can't we say it? No one is telling PS3 fans they can't be interested in the next GTA. Am I supposed to stop caring about one of the best games of all time because a video produced on jillion-dollar hardware was shown to hype up the sequel to a mediocre fps?

TheCovenant
05-26-2005, 05:16 PM
Geez, give it a rest. I'm so sure the new Xbox will have no games. And also, more games doesn't mean better. Sony is notorious for letting any piece of crap be released for their systems. On the other end of the spectrum would be Nintendo who are highly selective--at least back in the day when people wanted to release stuff on their systems. Mircosoft would be about in the middle in terms of selectiveness.

Anyway, there is a lot to be excited about for the Xbox 360. Right now I'm mostly interested in the new Elder Scrolls, as well as the two upcoming games from Mistwalker. Also, with FF no longer exclusive to Sony, I'd have to say a large reason why I own Sony products has been taken away.

And, of course, Halo is another reason. Why can't we say it? No one is telling PS3 fans they can't be interested in the next GTA. Am I supposed to stop caring about one of the best games of all time because a video produced on jillion-dollar hardware was shown to hype up the sequel to a mediocre fps?


and thats why your comments end up in my sigs :hail:

SPARTAN VI
05-26-2005, 07:35 PM
welp, true the Xbox is morwe powerful then the ps, so ?

Way to divert the argument. The screenshots were introduced to dump your

even the famous splinter ell which Microsoft claim over and over that it won't be able to turn on playstation , it runs smoothly wit no different at all..
comment.



tell me what are you going to buy ?
a new playstation with better hardware then the xbox plus more games or xbox inferior hardware and with no games...

We're playing with playdough here; nothing is in stone. In 2006, ask me that same question.


the emotion engine is more powerful than you think. Its just a complicated mess to program for.

Nah, the games reflect its power and I haven't been convinced otherwise.

odpr
05-27-2005, 02:54 AM
im actually really looking forward to:

Gears of War
Quake 4
Kameo elements of power
Perfect Dark Zero

For the ps3 im waiting for them to announce killzone was not real time. Sorry, in the games and graphics, i didnt see anything that far between the 360 and the ps3 for me to go "now thats way better", but i did see a lot of playable games of the 360 where i just though "i want this". So right now, the 360 looks to be the best of all three still, however if the playstation actually gets a game that i want (well actually, if it gets at least 4 or 5 games that i want) then i will gladly buy a ps3.

And yes, halo 3 is definatly on my positive outlook horizon. :cool:

Gears of War -fps
Quake 4 -fps
Kameo elements of power
Perfect Dark Zero -fps

you just dont get it ah... the xbox has only FPS
that's exectly the reason why people hate the box, because it has only FPS, I am saying that all over the tread and now you tell me this games....
(oh and there is 9137890239012980 sports games..)

odpr
05-27-2005, 03:40 AM
by the way read this
intersting:
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

AlphaRaptor
05-27-2005, 08:02 AM
the emotion engine is more powerful than you think. Its just a complicated mess to program for. After 18 months of crackin it, President of shiny entertainment Dave Perry has actually uncovered a way to do normal mapping on the ps2, along with bump mapping, and proper lighting (bloom, gloom and umbra), all while keeping a smooth framerate. This is all for the current gen game The Matrix: path of neo. They did do a lot with the character models in "Enter the Matrix", so its no big surprise what they've done with this title.

Funny, the Cell could also be one of these "complicated messes" so it'll take years for devs to take full advatage of it...

Stormlord
05-27-2005, 08:41 AM
What's the big fuss about PS3 and Xbox 360? They're both going to be great and I don't see why would anyone just want one console. Odrp has a point that a lot of Xbox exclusives are FPSs. A lot of Xbox games can be found on the PS2 already, so how will that be any different next-gen? Sony, however, gets a boatload of exclusives with lots of genres. I say get them all if you can. To declare loyalty to a single system leaves you in flat land. You'll miss out on great exclusives or better versions of the games. Even Computer Games magazine is now reviewing console games. As they put it some games you need a PC while other games require an Xbox, PS2, or GCN. This gen isn't really about hardware but is now about the games. Yes great graphics will sell the systems and Xbox is the most believable one. But the PS3 has incredible power allowing it to have so much activity onscreen.

Kmart6
05-27-2005, 09:16 AM
Taking the demonstration of the video chat windows in one screen while a game was being played in another - is that something we can expect as a standard OS feature, independent of the game?

The Cell can run multiple operating systems, so yes, you could do that. Now, we don't have the application up and running yet, and the resource management isn't quite final - but the purpose of that presentation was to show what is possible. Exactly how that gets unlocked is still being worked on.


More of Sony's Hype? More "this is what is possible"
But will we ever see it?

odpr
05-30-2005, 06:07 AM
go there and guess : :)
http://www.xboxaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70193

SamSmith
05-30-2005, 09:56 AM
go there and guess : :)
http://www.xboxaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70193

how many times have you posted that link??
we get it thankyou.

and yes, i will be getting both an xbox360 and ps3... there is enough time between the releases to save, but im am very hyped for the 360, and i do believe that it will be better... although everyone knows that this time around the technical differences between the 2 consoles will be minimal... which means it will all come down to the most important aspect of consoles... GAMES, and thats another area where i feel the 360 will excel.

SPARTAN VI
06-03-2005, 07:51 PM
Gears of War -fps
Quake 4 -fps
Kameo elements of power
Perfect Dark Zero -fps

you just dont get it ah... the xbox has only FPS
that's exectly the reason why people hate the box, because it has only FPS, I am saying that all over the tread and now you tell me this games....
(oh and there is 9137890239012980 sports games..)

*Looks at his Xbox library*

Well let's see...

Halo
Halo 2
Unreal Championship
RS3: BA
Brothers in Arms
Counter-Strike
SplinterCell: PT
SplinterCell: CT
Midway Arcade
Fable
Jade Empire
KOTOR
KOTOR 2
Morrowind
THPS4
Dynasty Warriors 4
Tetris Worlds
Crimson Skies
PSO
Forza Motorsport

6 FPS's in my library. How about the next addict?

OC Noob
06-04-2005, 12:56 AM
Even thought X-Box 360 has 512 MB of memory it only runs at 700MHz... This limits the speed at which the processor can access that memory.

With the PS3 memory being only half that of the X-Box 360 most would see it as a disadvantage but the PS3 processor can access the memory at 3.2GHz... or almost 5 times per every 1 time on the X-Box. This is a massive advantage for the PS3.

SHAGGY... Your right. The programmers are on a harder learning curve than with the new X-Box BUT... they also have more power to work with. I can almost guarantee you that PS3 developers are working over time to be up on their learning curve and will be turning out games just as fast as X-Box.

My main concern is that if the PS3 has a new processor will it be backwards compatible with the old PS games.



Sorry if anyone pointed this out, but Mhz are not everything and your logic fails. The bandwidth of that XDR is only slightly higher than the 700 mhz GDDR3 that the Xbox uses. Bandwidth is the raw number you should be looking at and even that can fail to perform if the bus is too slow. The 360 has a 25 g/s bus that matches the ram speed pretty well, so its won't be bottlenecked like most personal computers. Sony has yet to release the bus speed of the PS2, but if its the same as the 360's ram both systems will transfer info from and to ram at about the same speed, not 5 times faster.



No offense, but your research is wrong. First things, the Blu-ray Group (not to be confused with the Blue Man Group ;) ) is a consortum of over 100 major consumer electronics and information technology companies. The tech itself was developed by Sony along with top companies like Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, TDK, Thomson and others. Sony gets the biggest royalty check, but they aren't alone in the format.

Your other point is highly debatable and has been debated over the past 3 years with the ongoing preperations to bring prerecorded HD to the masses. But one thing is not debatable, the picture. It isn't 'a little bit better', it is a great deal better and the very reason both companies are touting their consoles ability to display games in HD. For ****s and giggles, change your monitor resolution to 640x480, then change it to 1920x1080 (if can even go that high) and see the difference.

Also, there is no instability in the technolgoy of HD. It is an ATSC standard just like regular NTSC television. It has been for the past 10 years. It isn't changing. The only change that has been going on is the cable connections due to Hollywood and their MPAA induced panic about piracy.

With the current talks of HD-DVD and Blu-ray merging (a pissing contest right now) Blu-ray just played one helluva trump card by officially declaring its presense in the PS3 which on day one will give it a customer base of a couple million and for a pricepoint under $500.

Blu-ray is hardly fluff. :cheers:

Funny, MS cheered about the X2 being the HD Era yet it can't do two major aspects of HD. Display in 1080p and play next gen Pre-recorded movies in HD.


Funny thing is, you are wrong too. Just because the 360 will have ATLEAST 720p and 1080i support for its games doesn't mean it CAN'T do 1080p. Edit: oh yeah, funny thing also is that the PS3 won't be able to play HD movies either when the 360 is released. Who knows when it will even be out. If MS wants to get the system out 6 months to over a year earlier than forget HD movies. The drives can always be upgraded in an advanced version of the 360 later. I do say it could be a year or more because the Cell and the vid chipset aren't even taped out yet, so who knows when this thing will be done.

I wouldn't believe everything MS says and I darn sure would believe all the stuff Sony says and implies.

Steve Ballmer:

Are there going to be multiple configurations for the box? Will there be version with a built in TV Tuner and an expanded hard drive?

"[laughing] We love the one configuration we’ve announced and we’re creative guys and I think you’re creative guys and so the notion that there might some day be other configuration is eminently possible. It’s a little bit like the discussion about HD DVD type storage. Will we have it? Sure. It’s not like by the next generation there won’t be a way to get massive storage on an Xbox. You’ll get it. And there will be other configurations that come to market. When and how and exactly which ones… when there’s news I’m sure we’ll be happy to trumpet those. Right now we love our one configuration that we got in market for this Holiday."


To the guy that said go watch the sony presentation vid, remeber that they aren't going to give you the truth, they (like MS) are hyping a product and have already lied out their ass about the movies they showed at E3. Of course, they are going to say the PS3 is way more powerful than the 360.

OC Noob
06-04-2005, 01:38 AM
Blu-ray is already a success in Japan, has been for over a year and that was at a premium $3000 pricetag.

Next, you are just making up assumptions. DVD's overpriced? An opinon that you are intitled to, but $15-$20 for a hard copy of a movie vs $10 to see it once in a theatre. Seems reasonable to me, and they are cheaper than VHS was this early in its life. $10-$20 more for Blu-ray? Hah, yeah right. The media is around 5 cents more to manufacture. The studios have already found the sweet spot with DVD in pricing. Expect Blu-ray or whatever HD optical format to follow suit. Chances are that they will initially come out as a premium over the DVD counterpart, but you are looking at $5 but expect first week sales to be right along side DVDs.


:bash: :bash: It's continued statements like that that makes this pointless in discussing with you. If you don't even understand what you are talking about, don't bother posting to knock it down.


First off, between the two proposed HD Optical formats, there is a 100% support from Hollywood. 50% behind Blu-ray, 50% behind HD-DVD. The support for any form of downloadable HD movie content....zero. The movie industry will jump on anyone offering them a profit as long as their truly is a profit to be had, and it is secure. Downloadable movies shows neither. There also is little demand from the consumers for such a service.

But back to the formats that do have support, Sony now owns roughly 35% of Hollywood's movie Library. They could be the only company supporting it and it would still be successful in its own right with plenty of software to view. Only one company on the HD-DVD side diehard for the format and will probably stick with it until it dies, Warner Brothers. They also have a sizeable library. The rest of the studios have shown initial support for one format, but also have said they aren't exclusive. Now when PS3 launches with a Blu-ray drive and overnight there are over a million new customers ready for BR movies, vs HD-DVD that even though launched 6 months earlier is having trouble selling their ~$500 standalone players, where do you think the remaining studios are going to go for? You are probably thinking, but I don't have an HDTV and so don't a lot of Americans so BR movies won't be an improvement for me. That is one of the beauty aspecs of either HD format. DVD, while a great step forward and much improved over VHS, still suffers from over compression, artifacts, grain, haloing etc. An HD movie sampled down to standard def tv will look better than the same movie off of the DVD. Now slap that HD movie in an HDTV and you'll wince at watching normal tv again. You won't even enjoy OTA HD broadcasts as much as they are compressed as well.

Sony is currently holding a very big hand in the game of video format poker. And if Toshiba folds and the format merger goes through, the PS3 will have an even bigger edge of X2.

Hell say that the **** hits the fan and HD-DVD wins out, Blu-ray doesn't get movies, even Sony has to admit defeat and release their library on HD-DVD that doesn't mean that BR is dead or that it is useless in the PS3. Let alone the capability for 50gig dual layer, 100gig quad-layer, it has higher throughput for better bitrates, more advanced audio, also at higher bitrates, and a ceiling high enough that no developer will break it.

Sorry for the long winded response but it just seems people are dissing BR without even knowing what it is all about.


Blu-ray is mearly a storage medium, a next gen storage medium based on a blue laser vs, DVD which is a red laser. The blue laser is finer, allowing for more information to be put on the disc. That's the real basics as there are many other details that seperate the two formats. It won't make games more expensive as the discs themselves are literally cents more than DVD's, and it will have zero impact on how hard a game is to make. Unless you are making a game that can't fit on 9 gigs (if we get there), then it makes it easier. ;)


Sorry for the double post, but it would just be too long if I edit.


What is your definition of sucess in Japan. I want to see a link, because at $3000 for a player I find it very hard to believe that the players have much market penetration. Is it even over 5%? I'd like to see some links and figures.

Also, where did the nickel a disk more figure come from, that sound way off to. DVD has been around a long time, I find it hard to believe that the equiptment to produce Blu-ray disks even allow manufactuing that cheap let alone the equiptment to produce the disks. I'm not the CEO of a major company, but people don't just sell new tech for nothing. It always comes at a premium, especially when its not even established yet.

So, please provide some links, because i don't want to believe or dismiss your claims without more information.


the emotion engine is more powerful than you think. Its just a complicated mess to program for. After 18 months of crackin it, President of shiny entertainment Dave Perry has actually uncovered a way to do normal mapping on the ps2, along with bump mapping, and proper lighting (bloom, gloom and umbra), all while keeping a smooth framerate. This is all for the current gen game The Matrix: path of neo. They did do a lot with the character models in "Enter the Matrix", so its no big surprise what they've done with this title.

anyways, just wanted to elaborate on the "ps2 doesnt do shadows" comment. Don't worry sparty, this comment will go ignored, as most smart comments are (cough*lynx*cough)

Link me this too, it sounds very interesting. Remeber when Rare figured out how to do wire models on the SNES?

Its one thing to figure out how to do something, its another thing to provide real world results. If the PS2 can make a game that looks like Rid****, I will poo my pants. Never in a million year whould I believe that it could, litteraly i will poo myself.

Now I have to rethink this, but I still have serious doubts about the results. They are already squeezing a lot out of the hardware so how much power would be left for normal mapping or dynamic lighting? How can it run with decent frames. We've seen some pretty amazing work with gaming software in the last 20 years and this will rank near the top if they can pull it off.

It sounds too good to be true, but I can't wait to see this title and find out. I also won't claim the PS2 can do these things until I see the results. These effects make games on PC and Xbox look beautiful when they are used properly. If it looks like crap or doesn't look any better than a regular PS2 game I'd say that they may technically be doing it, but without real world results its worthless. Will that Matrix game be beauty or the beast?

This sucks, now theres another thing I have to wait for, lol.

vman
06-04-2005, 02:09 AM
what sells a console are the games... at least in the long run. and unless the developers take full advantage of the PS3's capabilities, all those specs mean nothing. the same goes for the 360, but we have something they dont...XNA. I think that will be key in the console war, as well as getting a few big name developers and LIVE will surely contribute to the 360's success.

TheCovenant
06-04-2005, 05:26 AM
ok first off, oc noob, change your damn name. It's REALLY misleading.

Second off, im not touting that the ps2 can do riddi ck, the small amount of shader "tricks" the emotion engine is pulling off 5 years into its life is dazzling, but doesnt even come close to even halo 1. The game looks good on the ps2, its coming out on xbox, but it was running on ps2 hardware when they showed it at ign, where of course, you can find all the info on path of neo that you need. I was merely elaborating on the shadows comment mentioned earlier, in no way did i say the ps2 can do doom 3, and get away with smooth framerates. It was popular beleif that the emotion engine simply couldnt do vertex shading and so on. It just couldnt. it wasnt possible; but the fact the dave perry and team found a way is amazing...on the ps2. The xbox version will surely underwhelm.


and you are so right about the bandwidth, i felt like standing up out of my chair and applauding after reading the SUPER insightful posts you just laid out. The double post is more then forgiven, it was welcome, my mind was hungry for more *easily* accessible information.

AlphaRaptor
06-04-2005, 08:28 AM
It was popular beleif that the emotion engine simply couldnt do vertex shading and so on. It just couldnt. it wasnt possible; but the fact the dave perry and team found a way is amazing...on the ps2. The xbox version will surely underwhelm.

A little confused, vertex shading? That's one of the most simplex lighting methodes in gaming, just about all games on the Xbox, PS2, and GC use it in almost every game they play in one form or another. Do you mean dynamic lighting? :huh:

OC Noob
06-04-2005, 01:13 PM
ok first off, oc noob, change your damn name. It's REALLY misleading.

Second off, im not touting that the ps2 can do riddi ck, the small amount of shader "tricks" the emotion engine is pulling off 5 years into its life is dazzling, but doesnt even come close to even halo 1. The game looks good on the ps2, its coming out on xbox, but it was running on ps2 hardware when they showed it at ign, where of course, you can find all the info on path of neo that you need. I was merely elaborating on the shadows comment mentioned earlier, in no way did i say the ps2 can do doom 3, and get away with smooth framerates. It was popular beleif that the emotion engine simply couldnt do vertex shading and so on. It just couldnt. it wasnt possible; but the fact the dave perry and team found a way is amazing...on the ps2. The xbox version will surely underwhelm.


and you are so right about the bandwidth, i felt like standing up out of my chair and applauding after reading the SUPER insightful posts you just laid out. The double post is more then forgiven, it was welcome, my mind was hungry for more *easily* accessible information.


Thanks for the comments.

ps I wasn't attacking you, I really did want more info (I'll definitely check it out at Ign) and am very amazed that they can do it. In fact, like I said, I've got a load in my pants right now:D Anyway, I wasn't saying you made claims of how good it was, I just meant that if it doesn't yield results in real world aps I wouldn't consider the system capable of doing those things. But since they are using them and it improves gfx even a little you have to give it up to them for making the break through and more importantly being able to apply it in real world situations. Thanks for the info, its very interesting.

LynxFX
06-04-2005, 04:23 PM
OC Noob,

Funny thing is, you are wrong too. Just because the 360 will have ATLEAST 720p and 1080i support for its games doesn't mean it CAN'T do 1080p.
As of right now, MS has shown no support for the X2 to support 1080p so right now, it can't, but a better word would have been 'won't.


Edit: oh yeah, funny thing also is that the PS3 won't be able to play HD movies either when the 360 is released. Who knows when it will even be out. If MS wants to get the system out 6 months to over a year earlier than forget HD movies. The drives can always be upgraded in an advanced version of the 360 later.
WTH is this all supposed to mean? Are you trying to be clever in saying that since the X2 is being released before the PS3 that the PS3 won't be able to play movies because it isn't on the market yet? Wow, good observation. :rolleyes: What you fail to say though is that when the PS3 is released there are already 1500+ movie titles primed and ready to be released by Sony's studios alone.

Steve Ballmer's quote is from pure PR damage control. So Sony showed them up by having a nextgen HD optical format (which MS knew for years already that it was going to happen) and all Steve can say is that "uhh, we can do it too...maybe...later...as an add on perhaps....or new version." Yeah that will make all of you early adopters happy. If you want the new drive, pay the premium for the add on, or scrap your first gen X2 for a new one. Nice doubledip action right there.


What is your definition of sucess in Japan. I want to see a link, because at $3000 for a player I find it very hard to believe that the players have much market penetration. Is it even over 5%? I'd like to see some links and figures.
Success being that the format is still here after 2 years and is moving to take over the market. The Blu-ray recorders in Japan were meant for one thing, to be a niche product to develop the brandname, take away from D-VHS, and prove the technology. They did all three. 10 companys showed off their new Blu-ray recorders at CES. They wouldn't be doing it if there wasn't market demand.


Also, where did the nickel a disk more figure come from, that sound way off to. DVD has been around a long time, I find it hard to believe that the equiptment to produce Blu-ray disks even allow manufactuing that cheap let alone the equiptment to produce the disks.
Look it up. (well since you didn't want to, here. (http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Blu%2Dray+manufacture+costs)) In the past couple weeks there has been even more developement with a new spincoat process which reduces the cost even further as well as fabrication equipment that is compatible with both DVD and Blu-ray making a changeover cost effective. This was HD-DVD's biggest edge over BR....until now. A good rundown of the press release is here. (http://www.audiovideo101.com/news/news.asp?newsid=48)

The nickel comment comes from following thousands of posts over the last couple years from those that are in the industry and very close to the BR Association and HD-DVD forum. And as of late, a nickel might even be high. I would suggest checking out the avsforum as there are industry insiders there and always uptodate information covering this ongoing battle of nextgenHD DVD.

Anyway, after digesting everything we've seen over the past month I am going to consider the X2 as a console only and not media player or entertainment hub. And the console part they will probably do quite well.

TheCovenant
06-04-2005, 04:31 PM
A little confused, vertex shading? That's one of the most simplex lighting methodes in gaming, just about all games on the Xbox, PS2, and GC use it in almost every game they play in one form or another. Do you mean dynamic lighting? :huh:


err, no. i dont think even the xbox can do high dynamic range. Vertex shading is easily done pn ps2? hmmm. Maybe im jumbling up words then.

Well whatever, you know what i mean. Per-pixel shading perhaps?

OC Noob
06-05-2005, 03:26 AM
OC Noob,

As of right now, MS has shown no support for the X2 to support 1080p so right now, it can't, but a better word would have been 'won't.

I have yet to see a statement that says they won't support it, so as of now you are the one saying it won't and that doesn't/won't/can't. Anyway, they have said the games will atleast be 720p/1080i, not that 1080p won't be supported.


[/QUOTE]WTH is this all supposed to mean? Are you trying to be clever in saying that since the X2 is being released before the PS3 that the PS3 won't be able to play movies because it isn't on the market yet? Wow, good observation. :rolleyes: What you fail to say though is that when the PS3 is released there are already 1500+ movie titles primed and ready to be released by Sony's studios alone.

[/QUOTE]

It means, why should MS wait for Blu-ray when they can get the product out much sooner. Also, how many SACDs and DVD musice disks are out there? Not sure my self, but there are a bunch and those are still failing.

[/QUOTE]Steve Ballmer's quote is from pure PR damage control. So Sony showed them up by having a nextgen HD optical format (which MS knew for years already that it was going to happen) and all Steve can say is that "uhh, we can do it too...maybe...later...as an add on perhaps....or new version." Yeah that will make all of you early adopters happy. If you want the new drive, pay the premium for the add on, or scrap your first gen X2 for a new one. Nice doubledip action right there.[/QUOTE]

Another case of you saying something. No offense, but why should I believe you over Joe Blow. Also, we already know that more than one version will come out. Is it double dipping that people who buy it in Nov. won't get the PC verion of the 360?


[/QUOTE]Success being that the format is still here after 2 years and is moving to take over the market. The Blu-ray recorders in Japan were meant for one thing, to be a niche product to develop the brandname, take away from D-VHS, and prove the technology. They did all three. 10 companys showed off their new Blu-ray recorders at CES. They wouldn't be doing it if there wasn't market demand.[/QUOTE]

You acted as if there is one in every Japanesse house hold already and thats all you have? Theres pleanty of new technology out there that lasts over 2 year, that doesn't mean its mainstream or will become mainstream in the near future.

[/QUOTE]Look it up. (well since you didn't want to, here. (http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Blu%2Dray+manufacture+costs)) In the past couple weeks there has been even more developement with a new spincoat process which reduces the cost even further as well as fabrication equipment that is compatible with both DVD and Blu-ray making a changeover cost effective. This was HD-DVD's biggest edge over BR....until now. A good rundown of the press release is here. (http://www.audiovideo101.com/news/news.asp?newsid=48)

The nickel comment comes from following thousands of posts over the last couple years from those that are in the industry and very close to the BR Association and HD-DVD forum. And as of late, a nickel might even be high. I would suggest checking out the avsforum as there are industry insiders there and always uptodate information covering this ongoing battle of nextgenHD DVD.[/QUOTE]

I didn't make the nickle comment, you did, so back it up. I'm not going to search the net for hours looking for something thats probably not there. people say a lot of things in internet forums, that doesn't make them true. I'd like to see you post a credible source stating that fact.

[/QUOTE]Anyway, after digesting everything we've seen over the past month I am going to consider the X2 as a console only and not media player or entertainment hub. And the console part they will probably do quite well.[/QUOTE]

I fail to see your logic. There is no reason to believe blu-ray will be mainstream when the PS3 releases, nor is there any proof that it will be mainstream a year after its release. I think you presume too much considering people need to first adopt HDTV in the mainstream before most console users can even use it. Personal opinion here, but thats probably going to hamper Blu-ray adpotion along with the cost of players and HDTVs. They'll have to hit the sweet spot before average Joe gets them. nother point would be that every console that has started with a retail price point as high as $500 has always failed. Sony's got one of them, so why not make a stripped down version and be competative for pricing?

Hey, I like new tech, I like blu-ray, I love my PSP, I will love my 360 and PS3, but what I don't love is bad information. Prove me wrong... no don't do that. Prove yourself right with some credible information including links. I'm not a bad guy. If you have some links to prove your point (expert opinion, statements by those industry leaders, whatever and its not Joe Blow at dirt.com) I'll apologize and say how wrong I was and how right you were.


ps I agree with 90% of what you said in earlier posts. Its the 10% that I think you took liberties with. Anyway, prove me wrong, you won't hurt my feelings.

TheCovenant
06-05-2005, 03:45 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/TheCovenant/lynxvsnoob.jpg

SPARTAN VI
06-05-2005, 04:17 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/TheCovenant/lynxvsnoob.jpg

Stop it. No more photoshop for you.

LynxFX
06-05-2005, 05:43 PM
I already gave you the links, if you don't want to read them, not my problem. :)

Anyway seems like we just keep going around in circles. Believe me, dont' believe me. We'll see what happens in six months and year and then pick it up from there.

:rofl: @ cov

AlphaRaptor
06-05-2005, 10:22 PM
Well whatever, you know what i mean. Per-pixel shading perhaps?
yup, thats what you ment

mattgame
06-06-2005, 08:01 PM
That was some of the most interesting reading I have ever had the privilege to enjoy. Thanks OC Noob and Lynx.

OC Noob
06-08-2005, 12:09 AM
I already gave you the links, if you don't want to read them, not my problem. :)

Anyway seems like we just keep going around in circles. Believe me, dont' believe me. We'll see what happens in six months and year and then pick it up from there.

:rofl: @ cov


I agree with you there. Time will tell. So if the PS3 launches and blu-ray is the the **** you can catch me in a thread/PM and call me a dumb@ss and if its doesn't make much difference for the first year or two I'll PM you with a :hump: :p

Either way I learned a lot from this thread:)

EDIT for spelling: didn't learn to spell right though <too many images yikes>


ps lol @ Cov, too. If I had a sig, that would be in it.



That was some of the most interesting reading I have ever had the privilege to enjoy. Thanks OC Noob and Lynx.

Too bad we didn't really get into the nuts and bolts of Blue-ray too much. As Lynx said, the AVS forums are very good for that kind of info and the war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray has been an interesting one. I think, right now Blu-ray has more utility and is a better product, but thats not always the deciding factor. Its going to be interesting to see which gets adopted and when.

I'd give you more specs on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (both great storage mediums), unfortunately I'm in school again and don't have time for anymore mile long posts, lol.

LynxFX
06-08-2005, 01:50 AM
Plus with the parties involved with both formats changing what they are saying nearly everyday now it is becoming really hard to nail down direct statements and the direction they are heading. At least we know that our hopes and fears are being heard. Blu-ray would still be using past its prime mpeg2 if it wasn't for HD-DVD and all us internet and tech geaks praising HD-DVD (for choosing VC1 and mpeg4) while laughing at Blu-ray. They really turned themselves around the past year.

Then you got those boys trying to bring HVD and Hologram tech to the table giving us 300gig to 3.2TB storage capabilities and at least one is expecting to have products on shelves within the year (their words). And that seems to be the problem, putting products on shelves. Everyone has a product or new technology that will revolutionize the world, but as many have learned, it is hard to go at it alone. (Sony and Betamax). DVD was going that route as well but thankfully the DVD Forum was created and all those companies joined hands and sang Kum Bai Ya and within 5 years of the birth of the product gross sales have passed boxoffice revenue 3 fold. That's the power of a single format and something that I wish those egomaniac CEO's would recognise.

AlphaRaptor
06-08-2005, 08:39 AM
Screw HD-DVD or blue ray, I want those new 800gig DVDs! Their transfer rates are super fast as well.

Acid Chameleon
06-08-2005, 01:17 PM
Check this out
:cool:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

LynxFX
06-08-2005, 09:10 PM
Check this out
:cool:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
That's old and produced by Microsoft's PR henchmen. Besides it's an apple/orange comparison. That little move by MS was as bad as Sony's move calling 360 Xbox 1.5.