IS the 360 really next gen?

[Mwright]

i am a xbox fan and i wouldnt want anything more than to see the 360 just beat down the ps3 when it comes to the way games look....i have been looking at some stuff online...vidoes.ect. and besides a few titles:king kong and pdz and i havent seen the big jump we saw from playstation to playstation 2....

[Twistedcritts14]

I agree I was expecting a little more than whats been served.
maybe once developers of games figure out how to use all the power we might be suprised.

[l Maximus l]

First Generation games on next gen consoles are not going to be a huge leap, but more like a baby step. Typically 2nd and 3rd generation games will be much more superior when it comes to graphics. Gameplay is just gameplay...

Personally, I'm hoping for new franchises...a new kick ass series...kinda like how Splinter Cell hit the Original X.

[Double_Diablo]

It's early in the generation. Compare the crap we saw when the Xbox was first released to the games we have now. Most of the launch games are rushed anyways. Starting in 2006, we'll see way better looking games.

[Slam Dunker]

Some of the new 360 games look awesome, but hopefully we will have a lot more once they get into the swing of things.

[ShadedNine]

Looking at the graphics leap from previous generations to gauge the next is a flawed practice. Each step closer to realism is going to make the next step further and further away. The move from Nintendo to Super Nintendo brought 2d from the world of blocky pixels to truly definable objects. Moving on to the N64 or Playstation 1 introduced the world to the 3d revolution. From there the PS2/Xbox simply improved on this, adding bump maps, real time shadows, pixel shading, etc. The Xbox 360 (and the PS3 as well) are simply taking the improvements a step further, with multi-layered textures, polygons up the wazoo, realtime reflection maps on complex surfaces...and of course the hallmark of this coming generation: the introduction of High Definition (no, Xbox didn't really count on that one). I'm willing to bet that online gaming will take center stage this time around, bringing it mainstream for the first time (again, Xbox simply opened the door here).

So, is it really a full generation step ahead? I guess that would depend on how long you feel a generation ought to be. In terms of the technology, it's progressed at pretty much the same rate it always has. It's just that each step of noticeable difference becomes more and more obfuscated as we get closer to realism.

[Bakeman]

I was going to say exactly what shaded did :)

Well put Shaded

[F1Ox]

i am a xbox fan and i wouldnt want anything more than to see the 360 just beat down the ps3 when it comes to the way games look....i have been looking at some stuff online...vidoes.ect. and besides a few titles:king kong and pdz and i havent seen the big jump we saw from playstation to playstation 2....
If your looking for a big jump out of a console or even pc its never going to happen. Becuase it take $$$$ to do it. And God for shake that people pay for what they get.

[swivel]

First Generation games on next gen consoles are not going to be a huge leap, but more like a baby step. Typically 2nd and 3rd generation games will be much more superior when it comes to graphics. Gameplay is just gameplay...

Personally, I'm hoping for new franchises...a new kick ass series...kinda like how Splinter Cell hit the Original X.

100% agree on waiting for the next great series.

Somewhat disagree about the first series of titles. I agree that this is happening now, but in the past, even the launch titles looked tons better than the last system. The moves from 8bit to 16bit to 32bit to 64bit were enormous from the get-go.

This gen is partly spoiled for me because XBox titles are almost all on the PC. And my PC is already playing several of these games and they look better than on the XBox2 (I've played COD2 on both already, and the PC blows it away).

[FuNkY mOnK]

It's not really the graphics that come into play,it's everything that happens simultaneously like having hundreds of solders running around (so to speak) with half descent AI, for instance all the agents attacking Neo in one of the Matrix movie.This would not be possible on a less powerful system.

[FB-Gollum]

Wow, I find this thread really surprising. I've played the 360 and all the games I saw left my mouth hanging open. It's better than the best PC's out there already and it's not even at 1/3 of it's potential yet.

If you guys think that "King Kong" and "COD II" don't look like "next gen" titles then I'm not sure what you are after here. Both of those games set the bar higher graphically than it has ever been before. There is nothing on any current system (including PC games) that can touch these games.

The only people who seem to be unsure sre those who haven't seen it running. I said in another thread that one of the funny things that this generation of consoles is ushering in is the "obsolescence of the screenshot". Essentially, in previous gen's, screenshots were almost always at higher resolutions than the actual game ran at. This time around the resolutions are about the same, but the sreenshots fail to capture the 3 dimensional geometry, the new textured and lighting effects. In otrher words, as screenshots made things look better before, they fail to capture how they look now.

Conclusion? Don't judge it until you see it in real life. If you still aren't blown away, then you are likely one of those people that's never impressed. Oh well.

[Ninjermy]

Just compare the specs of the xbox vs the 360. The 360 is soooo much more superior that yes it is definatley classified as "next gen" in my books.
And yes, the games that come out right away will not be ground breaking.... with the hopeful exception of a few (perfect dark, PGR3). Also don't forget, I believe it was easier to go from the super increase in game quality on the ps1 and n64 to the ps2 and xbox then it will be to go from ps2, xbox to the 360 and ps3 JUST BECAUSE the demand for graphics is so much more detailed then back then thus harder to deliver.

It takes years to put out a GREAT game... so give the 360 a few before you see its max power.

[Jackyboy]

i really think that the nentindo revolution will be the most "next-gen" out of all of them

[Jags]

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG are u people F U C K I N G retarded
when u play a file on windows media player its a 38 mb file etc U THINK WHEN U PLAY IT ON THE 360 PLAYING FOR 4 MINS IS GONNA TAKE UP 39 MB?

[greg756]

its hard to say wether or not it will have better graphics than the ps3...the xbox had better graphics than the ps2...but that didnt matter sony had more games adn many many exclusives and the sad fact that many games made for the xbox either never bothered to use its power or in alot of cases many of its xbox only games sucked and only tarnished peoples opinion of the system...remember muches odysee was crap in terms of control and graphics...for this system to hold its own its going to take more than 512 megs of ram and some mapping effects....original and unique content such as condemned and oblivion will hopefully show people that maybe something besides graphics have inproved....microsoft needs to be careful

[mattgame]

I think that the Xbox and PS2 made a tremendous leap for sure. I was kind of hoping for Shrek and Incredibles like graphics but that may be next gen after this one.

The leap seems significant enough though. I'm sure it will only get better.

[Heavens Gate]

If you look at some launch titles for the original Xbox, like NFL Fever and see what they have now graphically, not too much difference IMO. I don't care about graphics. I care about gameplay and the Dreamcast has won that respect. I guarantee that once you play the most graphical game that the graphics will wear off and it's the gameplay that will make a great game. I haven't seen that yet. We probably won't for at least 2 years on 360. PS3 might come out with great gameplay right off the bat. I can't wait for MGS for PS3. I also heard that the PS3 will have more great developers than the 360 because SONY will shell out the money for it's gaming platforms and Microsoft won't . AKA, GTA series.I'm one of the hold outs for sure. The hype seems like it's dying down.

[FuNkY mOnK]

If you look at some launch titles for the original Xbox, like NFL Fever and see what they have now graphically, not too much difference IMO. I don't care about graphics. I care about gameplay and the Dreamcast has won that respect. I guarantee that once you play the most graphical game that the graphics will wear off and it's the gameplay that will make a great game. I haven't seen that yet. We probably won't for at least 2 years on
360. PS3 might come out with great gameplay right off the bat. I can't wait for MGS for PS3. I also heard that the PS3 will have more great developers than the 360 because SONY will shell out the money for it's gaming platforms and Microsoft won't . AKA, GTA series.I'm one of the hold outs for sure. The hype seems like it's dying down.
You're kidding right?...about everything right?

[S37H]

XNA is Microsoft exclusive now. You really have to take that into thinking. XNA = games made easier.

[swivel]

It's better than the best PC's out there already and it's not even at 1/3 of it's potential yet.


Uh.... not true. Top end PC's are already faster than the XBox 2. And COD2 on the PC is higher res than the XBox 2.

It's okay to be a fan. Or even a fanatic. But spreading lies makes you something else....

[mattgame]

Those are his opinions not lies. Oh fan is short for fanatic. Be easy.

[FuNkY mOnK]

Ialso read that the xbox 360 was faster then the curent pc.can't remember where at the moment.

[ShadedNine]

Uh.... not true. Top end PC's are already faster than the XBox 2. And COD2 on the PC is higher res than the XBox 2.

It's okay to be a fan. Or even a fanatic. But spreading lies makes you something else....

Personally, I feel that running games at 1600x1200 actually looks worse than some of the lower resolutions. I find most games out today simply don't have the detail to justify that kind of resolution...so all that extra sharpness does is highlights areas where the graphics fall short. IMO, 720p is just right for now...somewhere down the road, a move up to 1080p will be justifyable.
That however, is simply a matter of preference.

In terms of hardware performance, it's pretty tough for anyone to gauge it at this point. We still don't know how much developers are going to be able to flesh out of the multiple core system, so the advantage of having 3 cores / 6 threads is variable still at this point. I would argue though, that only the absolute top of the line (FX series) CPUs will prove equivalent. As for the graphics card...there is no single graphics card available on the consumer market that competes with the 360. However, for enthusiasts, an SLI or Crossfire setup can surpass it. In terms of RAM, the 360 is easily beat, though console games are desgined around this limitation. The Hard Drive is easily defeated as well, but that has little bearing on games outside of load times.

The 360 basically sits at around the same place the Xbox did when it first released.

[FB-Gollum]

Uh.... not true. Top end PC's are already faster than the XBox 2. And COD2 on the PC is higher res than the XBox 2.

It's okay to be a fan. Or even a fanatic. But spreading lies makes you something else....

Really...That's funny, I don't know of any triple core processors out for PC's right now. I wonder how much ram for that would cost. I wonder how much one of those top end PC's would cost. Faster is a relative term in this case. I'm sure if we looked at raw computing power they'd be pretty damn close, but I don't know of any comparisons out there. Anyhoo, when I think about the thousands that top end PC would cost, that alone makes the 360 a way better choice for gamers.




This gen is partly spoiled for me because XBox titles are almost all on the PC. And my PC is already playing several of these games and they look better than on the XBox2 (I've played COD2 on both already, and the PC blows it away).

LOL! Now we're "spreading lies". The PC version blows it like Heidi Fleiss blows Charlie Sheen. Sure it looks stellar on a top flight PC (if you can afford one) but no better. Lets' not kid anyone here, the Graphics card in the 360 is more than a match for any card on the market right now. The only advantage the PC version has is higher res.
Higher res mean little when games are running at these resolutions. Higher res doesn't necessarily mean a subjectively "better" picture for a viewer. Many other effects that the 360 does brilliantly create that. Besides, the 360 is geared towards an HDTV, not a computer monitor. I'm not sure how many 1080p TV's are out there, but I bet they don't have much market penetration. So really, claiming the PC verison is so horrfyingly superior is ludicrous.

PS. Hate to be a ***** on this one, I almost always agree with what you post actually, but this time I think you really like your PC (which from the sounds of it you proabably should). But I think you got a little fanboy on me there when I shunted the PC. :p :cheers:

[StudioAlex]

I'd say the machine is, but many of the games aren't. The only games I've seen or played that truly feel next gen are Oblivion, Kong, and possibley the multiplayer of PD0. After 360 kong there is no way in hell I could play it on PS2 or Xbox.

[Marc_01]

To compare first gen with next gen, you have to compare first gen first year titles with next gen first year titles. IMO.. With future shooters as the point of example:

Halo: Combat Evolved
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2003/pc/halo/0929/halo_screen022.jpg

Gears of War
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/655/655560/gears-of-war-20051003095639551.jpg

Have a better comparison, post it..

To me, that is a giant step. Or at least a big enough step to say next gen in the graphics dept.. Another thing to ad to next gen isn't just graphics but sound, interaction, and physics that also ad to a new game experience.

[FB-Gollum]

To compare first gen with next gen, you have to compare first gen first year titles with next gen first year titles. IMO.. With future shooters as the point of example:



To me, that is a giant step. Or at least a big enough step to say next gen in the graphics dept.. Another thing to ad to next gen isn't just graphics but sound, interaction, and physics that also ad to a new game experience.

THANK YOU! How can anyone in their right mind not think that it is a huge leap forward? It's the same as any other generation change. These graphics are the just the start and they're unparalleled to begin with. Furthermore, when the xbox launched, it's level of power was about the average PC for the time, the 360 is way ahead of the curve with technology not even available commercially yet.

[swivel]

Those are wonderful pre-rendered cutscenes you have there.

Computers with 4 cores have been around for years. Maximum PC built one for their Rig of the Year this last summer.

Early reviews for the XBox2 are not so good:

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-5960385.html?part=rss&tag=5960385&subj=news

I'm still skeptical.

[FB-Gollum]

Those are wonderful pre-rendered cutscenes you have there.

Dude, oh my god, you know damn well if you've done any reading at all that all the gears of war footage is in-engine. Those aren't pre-rendered. I watched the gameplay footage, that's what it looks like.


Computers with 4 cores have been around for years. Maximum PC built one for their Rig of the Year this last summer.

How many have you owned? How are the cores integrated, is it just 2 dual cores running in tandem or has it been built ground up purposefully as 4 core processor? Maximum PC built one for their rig of the year? Yeah, I'm sure that's cost effective. I wonder what the geniuses at CNN would say about that price wise if they're already *****ing about the price of the 360.

*EDIT

I went and did some searching. 4 cores have been on the market for years? Bull****. AMD is hoping to have that ready for 2007 dude. Only Power Mac's are running four cores and they aren't really a "4-core" processor but rather two dual cores running at 2.5ghz each. Which is not the same thing. So let's take a step back, realize we're dealing with an emergent technology, that at it's inception is rivalling the best and more well understood (by developers) PC's on the market. The feeling that should be coming out of this is "wow, I wonder what this thing can do". We don;t know what they'll be able to pull out of this machine.

Let's also remember that it's easier to develop for a console than a PC. You have one set of harware to worry about, not umpteen different possible configurations and requirements. They can focus on juicing the system to it's fullest potential rather than worrying about what the majority of customers will be able to run and making sure it scales smoothly for differing systems. No developer is going to bother trying to tax the latest greatest video card when by the time most people own it their game will be ancient history. With the 360, they can tax THE latest and greatest all they want, we all have the same goddamn thing.


I'm still skeptical

Fine, skepticism is important, I'm skeptical to a degree as well. However, I really enjoy online gaming. Microsoft has the best online service ever, so I want them to win out so I can get the best games focused around the best service.

[Mwright]

ok wow i never knew this thread would bring out so many XBOXaddict users being anti-360... i mean god if ur gonna be on this website dont bash it

[Dj Logical 1]

ok wow i never knew this thread would bring out so many XBOXaddict users being anti-360... i mean god if ur gonna be on this website dont bash it
Wow ur an idiot, they are not bashing the 360 nor being anti 360 they are just giving their opinions,

[TheWheelMan]

In regards to Marc_01....Keep in mind that gears of war wont be released for probably close to a year, That wont be a launch title.....If you were to compare the original Halo with a next gen game compare it with say perfect dark zero both FPS and both released at launch.

And dont get me wrong about this I am not bashing the xbox or 360 in anyway seeing as i'll most certainly be getting it when I have the money and have a decent enough setup for the console.....plus I wouldnt sell my self out to sony Im an Xbox whore if you will lol, Anyways PC's are always going to best consoles, so if the PC isnt quite on par with the 360 now it will be soon enough you can be sure of that, Its true its probably not ganna be the most cost effective computer but its all about personal preference I guess, Personally computers piss me off to know end when it comes to running games and the like there just to much work, Which is why consoles are gods gift to earth.

o and in regards to whoever said something about revolution.....Get out! just get out of this forum now, you dont deserve to be here :cheers:

[ShadedNine]

I hate the Revolution exclusively for the fact that I think it's time to take Nintendo's admitted expertise at producing great games and bring it to a real piece of hardware, and the Revolution is holding that back.

Anyway, here's a nice little article that takes a bit of a look at the hardware side of the thing, and also gives a bit of a computer-gamer skewed review:
http://www.twitchguru.com/2005/11/18/xbox_360/index.html

[Jags]

i hate the Rev its bull man nintendo have systematically released the SAME thing in a different shell
they're games are for kids and homo's
but haveing said that i must also sat that zelda and mario are the **** :p

[Marc_01]

In regards to Marc_01....Keep in mind that gears of war wont be released for probably close to a year, That wont be a launch title.....If you were to compare the original Halo with a next gen game compare it with say perfect dark zero both FPS and both released at launch.

Yeah I knew it wasn't a launch title but Halo and GOW are the closest I could find that had about the same art direction. Maybe GOW and Halo 2 are a better comparison. I think the graphical expectations people have are made by themselves and all are different.

What I want to see out of the x360 is better interaction, dynamic enviroments and linear games go bye bye.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what developers can push out this machine. I was really impressed with games like splinter cell on x1, can't wait to see what catches me eye on the 360 :)

[Jags]

yeh halo 2 is probably better to compare

[swivel]

I love the arguments against PC's because they are 'expensive'. I wonder how many guys have tried that in their Pintos when a Ferrari pulls up beside them....

"Yo... loser. My car is only slightly slower than yours (relative to say, an old woman with a walker). My ride seats twice as many. And most of all... yours is too expensive".

I'm sure the Ferrari guy would go and sell his sled immediate-like and rush off for a Pinto.

Please, guys. When we are talking about specs and speed, let's not bring price into the argument. We are not arguing cost-benefit, just raw power. I'm sorry everyone can not afford the newest gear, but that is not relevant.

The XBox2 is triple-core. PC's have been around for over a year that run two Dual-Core procs over 3 Ghz. That's 4 cores. And two 7800 GTX's in SLI toast the XBox2 GPU.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone's sensibilities. I really am. This entire tangent started with someone denigrating PC's on the first page of the thread. I'm merely laughing the dude down.

For what it is worth, I am looking forward to getting an XBox2 once the bugs are worked out, the chips are based on a 65nm core (instead of 90), and some decent games are released.

[killerscott]

For those of you who doubt the gears of war picture just watch the demonstration. ill get a link.

edit* http://www.gametrailers.com/e3_2k5_xb360.php?p=&letter=G scroll down and find the gears of war. there are several videos including in game.

edit 2* The video on the very bottom of the page is the best i think. ( its high def. version is on the next page a long with a bunch of other vids.)

edit3(the final edit!)* http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=7620&type=mov that is a great video also. It has the head designer talking about it and then showing a demonstration.

[TheWheelMan]

Im not doubting its in-game footage its just going to take time for the developers to get use to and take advantage of the system and what it offers....I saw PGR3 running today and goddamn did it look good, so the possibilitys are endless once the system is fully understood......cause damn thats only a launch game :hail:

[FB-Gollum]

I love the arguments against PC's because they are 'expensive'. I wonder how many guys have tried that in their Pintos when a Ferrari pulls up beside them....

We're not comparing a Ferrari to a Pinto, it's more like a Ferrari to a 350Z, in terms of real world useabiliy, they'll do almost the exact same thing, However, the Z is going to cost 1/5 of what the Ferrari will. Hence, you see a lot more Z's on the road than Ferrari's.


Please, guys. When we are talking about specs and speed, let's not bring price into the argument. We are not arguing cost-benefit, just raw power. I'm sorry everyone can not afford the newest gear, but that is not relevant.

Fair enough. This is kind of ass backwards though. There's no software being made that will take full advatage of the "most powerful PC on earth". You can adopt theis technology early, then you get to wait a couple of years before anything takes advantage of it.


The XBox2 is triple-core. PC's have been around for over a year that run two Dual-Core procs over 3 Ghz. That's 4 cores. And two 7800 GTX's in SLI toast the XBox2 GPU.

Like I said, there's no 4 core processors. Just Dual running in tandem. That is not the same thing as a purpose built quad-core. Like I said, and you ignored, we don't know how the architecure of this processor will translate into gaming. Let's remember that it's purpose built for this.

As for the GPU, TWO 7800'S?!?!? COME ON MAN GET WITH IT. If you need to double up the latest greatest thisng to tackle it then that alone shows how superior it is. Is there anything that can take it 1 on 1? No. And guess what, it still won't outdo the 360 because THERE'S NO SOFTWARE AVAILABLE THAT WILL PUSH IT THAT FAR.


I'm sorry if this offends anyone's sensibilities. I really am. This entire tangent started with someone denigrating PC's on the first page of the thread. I'm merely laughing the dude down.

I denigrated nothing. You stated the the PC version of COD II is thoroughly superior graphically to the 360 version and I called you on a line of typical PC fanboy bull. I've been a PC gamer for years and I finally gave up on it because the money I was putting in didn't pay off in the experience I was getting. Once I got on to Xbox LIVE I realized there is a cheaper easier way, and with the 360 I no longer have to make the graphical sacrifice.

Laughing me down? Holy superiority issues Batman, this guys got problems. Seriously man, that's offensive and stupid.


For what it is worth, I am looking forward to getting an XBox2 once the bugs are worked out, the chips are based on a 65nm core (instead of 90), and some decent games are released.

Oh, and now you admit that there are things about the 360 which are very attractive. I wonder how this different architecture will effect it's performance vs a "2xdual core" processor built with different specs. Gee, I don't know. Neither do you. So stop acting like you do.

[swivel]

Laughing me down? Holy superiority issues Batman, this guys got problems. Seriously man, that's offensive and stupid.


What? You think you are better than me because I have a superiority complex? Is that what you are saying?

Dude. Your argument that PC's are expensive has been won. I understand that you lost your thrill for PC's, and just like someone who quits smoking, you now have to cough violently every time one is mentioned. Sorry for your bad experience and your current economic woes.

But no sour grapes, please.