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LeoBreaker
12-15-2005, 12:53 PM
looks like it will be HD-DVD ready sometime after spring of next year. link (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/675/675764p1.html)

Bakeman
12-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Microsoft has cleared the air in regards to ongoing speculation concerning possible HD-DVD functionality in future releases of the Xbox 360, saying that it currently has no plans to release an Xbox 360 equipped with a HD-DVD player.

The direct statement was made in an attempt to shoot down a report from a Japanese news service yesterday, which claimed that the company planned to launch an HD-DVD compatible Xbox 360 in 2006.

"Microsoft, in both America and Japan, has not announced anything regarding the possibility of a next generation DVD drive being placed in the Xbox 360," a Microsoft spokesperson told IGN. "There are currently no plans to release an Xbox 360 equipped with a next generation DVD player."

Speculation over whether such a device might be forthcoming originated with comments made back in August by Bill Gates himself, who said: "We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox 360 will incorporate an additional capacity of an HD-DVD player or something else."

Courtesy of Gamesindustry

...........

laughs
12-15-2005, 03:25 PM
I thought the ones out now had a HD-DVD player.... lol shows how much I know.

swivel
12-15-2005, 04:35 PM
Even if they do release one with the HD-DVD drive (years from now) it will be to play movies only. There's no way they will alienate current XBox2 owners by releasing HD-DVD games in the future. So the game side will be stuck with 9 GB discs for this generation.

SH4MR0CK
12-18-2005, 06:12 PM
ok if they change the drive to an Hd drive then basically the people who waited out for hours some in the frezzing cold are basically screwed over and have a lower model 360.

ShadedNine
12-18-2005, 06:25 PM
ok if they change the drive to an Hd drive then basically the people who waited out for hours some in the frezzing cold are basically screwed over and have a lower model 360.

Unfortunately, by your reasoning, so is anyone who ever bought a technological device. I paid premium dollar for a computer with a 5" floppy drive, and now you're telling me there's newer and better stuff on the systems available now, for cheaper?! Man, I got screwed over.

swivel
12-19-2005, 07:37 AM
Unfortunately, by your reasoning, so is anyone who ever bought a technological device. I paid premium dollar for a computer with a 5" floppy drive, and now you're telling me there's newer and better stuff on the systems available now, for cheaper?! Man, I got screwed over.

Except you probably won't be able to swap the drives out on the XBox2 that easily. And, in general, consoles are built to be standardized.

Still, no one should fret. Microsoft has denied these rumors, and for economic reasons that drive will never be for games even if it does get made.

Spaztic
12-19-2005, 06:12 PM
Except you probably won't be able to swap the drives out on the XBox2 that easily. And, in general, consoles are built to be standardized.

Still, no one should fret. Microsoft has denied these rumors, and for economic reasons that drive will never be for games even if it does get made.

Microsoft will never admit that the rumors were true. It would definatly make people wait to get an Xbox360 if they knew in 2006 an Xbox360 would be comming out with a HD-DVD. I for one am waiting for this very reason....I want the most bang for my buck....

ShadedNine
12-19-2005, 08:55 PM
Except you probably won't be able to swap the drives out on the XBox2 that easily. And, in general, consoles are built to be standardized.

Still, no one should fret. Microsoft has denied these rumors, and for economic reasons that drive will never be for games even if it does get made.

We'll see about that. It's a standard SATA data interface for the drive. The only thing proprietary is the power connector. I don't think it'll take longer than HD-DVD's release for someone to come out with an adapter.

Not that it matters anyway. I haven't yet, and don't plan to watch a movie on my 360 ever. I have a far superior player, with infinite capacity for upgrades, in my computer, which functions as a media center.

If you're waiting on HD-DVD....be prepared to sit on your hands for a while. The format won't be launching until 2nd Q next year at the very earliest.

swivel
12-19-2005, 09:03 PM
We'll see about that. It's a standard SATA data interface for the drive. The only thing proprietary is the power connector. I don't think it'll take longer than HD-DVD's release for someone to come out with an adapter.

Not that it matters anyway. I haven't yet, and don't plan to watch a movie on my 360 ever. I have a far superior player, with infinite capacity for upgrades, in my computer, which functions as a media center.

If you're waiting on HD-DVD....be prepared to sit on your hands for a while. The format won't be launching until 2nd Q next year at the very earliest.

I didn't mean 'you' when I said 'you'. I meant the metaphorical 'you' which encompasses the people out there whose vcr's still blink noon. I don't think many people could get their XBox's open, much less swap out a drive.

Besides, like you said, nobody should be watching movies through their consoles anymore. DVD players that do everything cost less than a single game. And like I've said a dozen times, HD-DVD will never be used for games in this generation. Ever.

So it wouldn't make sense for MS to release an HD-DVD drive for many reasons. And it shouldn't detract from the console's worth one iota that it isn't there. (Not that the PS3 crowd won't try).

laughs
12-19-2005, 11:04 PM
Yeah I said it, I thought the dvd drive was HD now :confused:

ShadedNine
12-20-2005, 12:55 AM
whose vcr's still blink noon


What's a vcr?

You're quite right on that point though. On top of that, DVD players were available if not common before the PS2 (the first dvd capable console) ever hit the streets. This time around, people seem to think that the change is going to be more drastic, and need to jump on the bandwagon immediately..?

If anything, HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be slower to catch on than DVD, and quite likely replaced more quickly. It's unlikely that they'll ever take off like CDs and DVDs have. The days of optical media are numbered as more than a means of archiving data.

DD-KGann
12-20-2005, 03:27 AM
I don't plan on watching any movies of any shape, form, or fassion, so an HD-DVD drive, or lack there of, is not a troublesome deal for me. If I want to watch "Blu Ray" movies, do you really think I am going to go out and buy a PS3. Yeah, greeeat idea, spend $$$ on something that will SLIGHTLY enhance my movies. You know what....I'll wait, lol.

Sony is hitting the media with stupid ploys. Blu Ray player, goofey ass controller, looks alot like a fax machine. I really don't think the PS3 is anything the Xbox needs to worry about. I mean, look at Sony's E3 and other trade show showings. LAME. Wow, pretty pre-rendered graphics...neat. Why don't I just go rent Finding Nemo instead.

Oh well, *Rant Over*

swivel
12-20-2005, 08:21 AM
I don't plan on watching any movies of any shape, form, or fassion, so an HD-DVD drive, or lack there of, is not a troublesome deal for me. If I want to watch "Blu Ray" movies, do you really think I am going to go out and buy a PS3. Yeah, greeeat idea, spend $$$ on something that will SLIGHTLY enhance my movies. You know what....I'll wait, lol.

Sony is hitting the media with stupid ploys. Blu Ray player, goofey ass controller, looks alot like a fax machine. I really don't think the PS3 is anything the Xbox needs to worry about. I mean, look at Sony's E3 and other trade show showings. LAME. Wow, pretty pre-rendered graphics...neat. Why don't I just go rent Finding Nemo instead.

Oh well, *Rant Over*

Agree 100% with the first paragraph. The improvement is too incremental to upgrade entire libraries and players. Only the videophiles and gadget freaks will bother (which includes me). But it isn't like moving from tapes to discs. There isn't that obvious supremecy, like chapter searching, durability, quality, and size that made DVD's obviously better.

I agree with part of your second paragraph, but I would caution you to take the PS3 more seriously. And don't forget that the release of that system is 6 months behind the XBox2. We were seeing nothing but pre-rendered hype about the XBox2 at this point in its development cycle as well, so be fair. You can't expect the same level of development when the launch dates are half a year apart. Can you?

Also, even though I'm betting Blu-Ray fails utterly as a movie medium, that will not affect the consoles success and ability to compete with the XBox2. It will just mean that Sony has a proprietary (as usual) delivery medium for their console. Think of them as flat gaming cartridges if you want. The thing will still be a DVD player had have 100% backwards compatability.

And one glance at the XBox2 numbers in Japan right now will assure you that this battle hasn't even started yet. In Japan they are choosing to wait for the PS3. Here, due to lack of consoles, most of us are being forced to wait. By the time consoles are readily available, the PS3 will be close enough, and the hype will have waned enough, that many people may decide to wait, voiding MS's launch lead.

Don't forget... this war is not won by the fanboys. They never even had a mind to make up, it is chiseled in stone. And hardcore gamers, myself included, will own all systems and buy a hundred games a year. This war is won by the casual gamers that actually choose between the systems based on merits. And they haven't shown up yet.

DD-KGann
12-20-2005, 06:28 PM
I totally agree with all you said. Except, I heard the PS3 was releasing in Japan in 3 months, and in the US in 6?

ShadedNine
12-20-2005, 06:54 PM
Your assumption that the 360 shortage brings it closer to the PS3 launch might not be accurate, particularily if there's high demand for the PS3. I very much doubt Sony is going to be sitting on extra systems for a long time while they stockpile a supply. There's no reason for it. They'll do the same thing, by handing out units as fast as they make them, and enjoy the hype that goes along with the shortage. The greater separation between region launches may help, but at the same time only serve to isolate them further (I'm not exactly thrilled when I buy a product that's already old news in another country...but them I'm picky that way).

It'll be worth watching though, since MS dominates Europe, PS3 dominates Japan, and NA will be the battleground of choice.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray won't play a deciding factor in it though. Particularily given that the issues surrounding the various aspects of the next-gen movie format are still an absolute mess. It's going to be an ugly format war, and one that I believe is going to turn both formats into the next laserdisc.

swivel
12-21-2005, 09:14 AM
Your assumption that the 360 shortage brings it closer to the PS3 launch might not be accurate, particularily if there's high demand for the PS3. I very much doubt Sony is going to be sitting on extra systems for a long time while they stockpile a supply. There's no reason for it. They'll do the same thing, by handing out units as fast as they make them, and enjoy the hype that goes along with the shortage. The greater separation between region launches may help, but at the same time only serve to isolate them further (I'm not exactly thrilled when I buy a product that's already old news in another country...but them I'm picky that way).

It'll be worth watching though, since MS dominates Europe, PS3 dominates Japan, and NA will be the battleground of choice.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray won't play a deciding factor in it though. Particularily given that the issues surrounding the various aspects of the next-gen movie format are still an absolute mess. It's going to be an ugly format war, and one that I believe is going to turn both formats into the next laserdisc.

Agree on the formats. Blue-Ray and HD-DVD are going to slug each other to death, while holographic discs pop in and take over. What I would love to see is a non-sponsored format take over for movies. Divx is close, with Divx capable DVD players gaining traction. I would rather see an open-source format for movies, like MP3 was for music. Get rid of all the DRM that kills technology. It only hurts those of us that buy our stuff. The pirates just download a program to get rid of the DRM. Stupid.


As for your earlier comment... I think the PS3 does catch up with MS, no matter what happens with the amount of units available for Sony, just for one reason alone: MS was looking for 3-4 million units sold in 90 days. If they do not hit that number because of production, rather than purchasing, then the windows between releases was shortened by MS. What mistakes or gains Sony makes is up to them, and would have happened anyway. All MS can control is MS, and they did their part to help Sony, plain and simple. Your point would be that Sony could easily squander away these gains, which I grant you. But that is wishful thinking that ignores current fact.

You also have to wonder if the PS3 is going to be able to launch with more mature games that are being developed right now with both systems in mind.

I have an unusual stance on these systems. I want the XBox2 to rule the roost here, and for the Sony to dominate in Japan. Why? For the games. I like American and Japanese style games. And I think Sony can offer me a gameplay that MS never will, even with Square's help. The same goes for gameplay that MS can deliver that you will never see out of Japan. That's how the last generation went for me, with tons of titles on all systems, and my cross-platform games on XBox (except for Soul Calibur, which got the Link treatment :) )

ShadedNine
12-21-2005, 07:10 PM
As much as we'd all love to see an open source format win out, we both know it just won't happen. The movie studios will never agree to release their high def content in an unsafe format. They'd much prefer to delude themselves to the notion that it will remain protected and fully under their control for all of time :rolleyes:

As for holographic discs...they can definitely boast extreme amounts of storage, but there's also developments in new forms of flash technology that make give the entire notion of optical drives a run. Could go any which way though, as far as storage is concerned.

swivel
12-22-2005, 09:59 AM
As much as we'd all love to see an open source format win out, we both know it just won't happen. The movie studios will never agree to release their high def content in an unsafe format. They'd much prefer to delude themselves to the notion that it will remain protected and fully under their control for all of time :rolleyes:

As for holographic discs...they can definitely boast extreme amounts of storage, but there's also developments in new forms of flash technology that make give the entire notion of optical drives a run. Could go any which way though, as far as storage is concerned.

I'm pulling for cheap flash memory. It is actually going to find itself inside of conventional hard drives in a year, and Windows Vista is going to use that flash memory to boot a lot faster. More like turning a stereo on, or a console. I can't wait for that.

The great thing about flash memory is the lack of moving parts. Not only do things last longer, but the power drain is much less. The main reason the PSP has such horrible battery life is the UMD drive. Sony should have gone with a cartridge instead of inventing their 101st proprietary format.

I do think DVD's will be harder to unseat than VCR's were. There is much more market penetration now. Movie ownership is more standard... VCR's were mainly for home movies and renting. It will be hard to get everyone to abandon their libraries. In the long run, it will probably be HD-DVD's that take over, but not by having everyone switch. They will have to get all DVD players to be dual format (which will take years), and only once everyone already has a device that plays both, will they start investing in HD-DVD's. Then they will know they can pop in either disc into the same device, and it will play.

You and I have to constantly remind ourselves that we are not the target for these people. Microsoft has not yet sold a console to its target audience. That is hard to keep in mind sometimes. We each feel like all this new tech is just for us, and especially for the technophiles. But the economy works like politics. They want the great masses, not the fanatics. They already know they have us.

HD-DVD won't work unless my aunt Barry starts buying them at Target. Bill Gates (person of the year, btw) won't see victory unless he outsells the PS3 here in America, which will take 4 years to find out. The deciding factor there is going to be my uncle Mark, who will need to buy a system next Christmas in order to play the newest Tiger Woods game. Which system will he choose? He won't get his information from forums, or from magazines. He'll probably buy the same brand he has now. But what if it is his first console? Which one will he buy?

And that is the way these companies approach this, and target their marketing, and withhold info, and release hype, etc...

ShadedNine
12-22-2005, 07:12 PM
You're right about having to sell to the masses, but it's also best not to underestimate the importance of us technophiles.

I can say that I personally make at the very least, 20-30 laptop/computer product recommendations in a year, a nearly equal number involving anything from TVs, Mp3 players and digital cameras, and probably 5-10 consoles...and I don't work for a retailer. Naturally, having me in favour of a certain brand is more valuable to that brand than a single average user, who may share his/her opinion on that product or brand, but rarely becoming a deciding factor for people.

Thankfully for those who come to me for advice, I consider myself to be far less biased than most, and like to actually research products I recommend, rather than blindly promoting on name alone.

Anyway, my point is...if I adobt HD-DVD over Blu-ray, or vice-verse, I've done so because I'm willing to put my money behind the format. So, unless something changes drastically after that, I'm also going to put forth the same recommendation to others. This can add up to a very substantial proportion of the market through a trickle down effect from the earliest adopters to the average user.

This time around though, I see myself owning an HD-DVD drive when they come, but I doubt they'll get it to the point where I'd recommend it for the average user.

swivel
12-22-2005, 08:08 PM
You're right about having to sell to the masses, but it's also best not to underestimate the importance of us technophiles.

I can say that I personally make at the very least, 20-30 laptop/computer product recommendations in a year, a nearly equal number involving anything from TVs, Mp3 players and digital cameras, and probably 5-10 consoles...and I don't work for a retailer. Naturally, having me in favour of a certain brand is more valuable to that brand than a single average user, who may share his/her opinion on that product or brand, but rarely becoming a deciding factor for people.

Thankfully for those who come to me for advice, I consider myself to be far less biased than most, and like to actually research products I recommend, rather than blindly promoting on name alone.

Anyway, my point is...if I adobt HD-DVD over Blu-ray, or vice-verse, I've done so because I'm willing to put my money behind the format. So, unless something changes drastically after that, I'm also going to put forth the same recommendation to others. This can add up to a very substantial proportion of the market through a trickle down effect from the earliest adopters to the average user.

This time around though, I see myself owning an HD-DVD drive when they come, but I doubt they'll get it to the point where I'd recommend it for the average user.

I seriously doubt you will have to make an either/or choice. Everyone points to the Betamax/VHS format war for precedent. I have a different view. I look to the DVD+ DVD- format war. Look what happened there... everyone thought one format had to 'win'. Instead, hardware manufacturers found it far simpler to make drives that supported all formats. Problem solved.

From what I'm hearing already, with HP jumping to HD-DVD as well as Blu-Ray, and drives already in development that support both formats... my guess is that you will be able to get a drive for your PC that does both for less than $200 within a year. Sure, the first drives are going to be over $1,000 (for home AV enthusiasts), but optical drive prices plummet.

The two will live hand-in-hand, even though I still don't think they will get widespread adoption. You'll have to buy Spiderman in Blu-Ray and LOTR in HD-DVD. But you won't really notice the difference. The crappy thing will be seeing these discs sell for $35 dollars or so. That is going to really hamper adoption. Hopefully it will drive regular DVD prices down. :)


I do not discount the "Maven Factor" that you mention. I do the same thing for my family and friends. They call before any TV, PC, or gadget purchase. And, like you, I do my research and have no bias. My current PC is an AMD / Nvidia rig, my last one was Intel / ATI. All I care about is who has the best product. If you like to read, go get a copy of "Tipping Point" by Malcolm Caldwell. He has a lot to say about Mavens and how they influence product adoption. So know that I make my dire predictions with full knowledge of this effect.

My guess is that you will be as honest as I am. You will enjoy the added tech, and spend the extra money... but you will find it as hard as I will to suggest to friends and family that they really need to spend the extra dough for an increase in lines of resolution. We will tell them that they are better off spending that money upgrading their speakers, where they will get more bang for their buck. Or getting an up-converting DVD player for $100 instead.

All of this is my educated opinion, of course. I look just as forward to being proven wrong as right.


Oh... and off topic... have you been watching the upcoming release of a JVC receiver that has 3 HDMI inputs, and upconverts to HDMI from all other inputs? The thing is going to rule, and might make your cable runs a thing of the past. One HDMI cable to your projector is all you would need.

I've got a ton of devices spitting out HDMI to a switch right now that just can't wait for this receiver.

ShadedNine
12-22-2005, 11:31 PM
Personally, I don't intend to invest any money towards moving into HDMI until the release of the 2.0 standard, assuming that fixes the current problems with getting these devices to speak to one another. Moving to a digital amp though, is definitely an intention of mine for the near future. But I'm looking towards the Panasonic.

I've seen far too many issues with HDMI, particularily when they involve switching. I'll probably stick primarily to analog outputs, which can still deliver top notch quality, until I'm forced into going digital by HDCP.

As for combo HDDVD + Blu-ray drives...the technologies are separated further physically than DVD + - ever was. Combo drives are likely a posibility, but they probably won't reach an affordable level anywhere near as fast as DVD. Not fast enough for my first one to be a combo at least. Thankfully, most studios, except perhaps for Sony, will be offering movies in both formats anyway.

PeteZombie
11-06-2006, 08:34 PM
heres the link http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hddvdplayer/
you can pre order @ ebgames. even afess military exchange has it listed for release 11-07-2006