PS3 is a sly bastard

[Dark Shift]

I just realized something as me and my father were talking about the upcoming console war, and I say upcoming as only one of the "next-gen" consoles has been released (I think you know which one I'm talking about :D), PS3 has a serious selling advantage right off the bat. If I'm not misinformed, the PS3 will be entirely capable of playing Blu-Ray DVD's right ouf of the box, whereas the 360 requires a four-hundred dollar addition to play just HD-DVD's. Now I don't know if you're up and knowledgeable about which major companies are supporting either types, but I'd say it's safe to say that Blu-Ray has a ridiculous advantage in terms of powerhouse companies supporting it. Not to bash our good friend HD-DVD, but it seems as though the former creator of the beta-max actually has the upperhand and did their research this time around.

The point I'm getting at is simply this: This closest priced Blu-Ray DVD player is a whopping $1,000 USD (if you get a decent one)..whereas you can pay six-hundred big ones and get not only a blu-ray player, but a powerhouse of a gaming machine too. To me this signifies a serious advantage over the 360 (where you'd have to pay, as aforementioned, a whopping $400 buck's for the HD-DVD, which brings the total price to around 800, topping the PS3).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some fanboy preaching for the PS3, I stayed up all night to get a 360 at launch, and I love it dearly (despite being dissapointed with the initial launches lacking games), I just realized: what the hell, I may as well just pick up a PS3 at launch to watch some hi-def dvd's on my beautiful TV...I don't even have to use it to play games, and it's the cheapest Blu-Ray Player out there....why the hell not.

[SamSmith]

It's still not definate whether the format will take off

[vman]

HD-DVD add-on is $199 + Xbox360 Premium is $399 = $598
PS3= $599

The 360 is actually 1 cent cheaper.

Also, read this:

New DVD could end format war

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (Reuters) -- The format war around next generation DVDs may be over before it has begun, thanks to a breakthrough from a British media technology company.

Britain-based New Medium Enterprises (NME) said on Tuesday it had solved a technical production problem that makes it possible to produce a cheap multiple-layer DVD disk containing one film in different, competing formats.

"Current technologies to create multiple layer disks mostly don't work. We've created a technology for mass production of multiple layers that does not suffer from the well known problem of low yields," said NME Chief Technology Officer Eugene Levich.

A low yield means that many DVDs coming off the manufacturing lines are not working and have to be discarded.

The production costs of a multi-layer DVD using the new NME technology are estimated to be around 9 cents, compared with the 6 cents for a standard single-layer play-back DVD, according to Dutch company ODMS, one of the world's leading makers of production lines for optical disks.

This 50 percent cost increase compares favorably with the current generation of multi-layer recordable DVD disks which cost 3 to 5 times as much to produce than a single layer disk, due to low yields.

The technological breakthrough comes one week after three employees at movie studio Warner Bros. filed a patent for the application of multiple formats on a single DVD disc.

"There's no collision between Warner and us. They patent the application, we are patenting the technology. These are complementary patents. I'm glad it's happened. Warner opened our eyes, because it shows they really want to do this and create multi-format, multi-layer disks," Levich said.

Time Warner is the world's largest media company and owns Warner Bros. Former Warner Home Video President James Cardwell joined NME as a board member last month.

Nipped in the bud?

Multiple format DVD disks can solve the emerging war between the two new high capacity DVD formats: Blu-Ray, which is backed by Sony Corp., and Toshiba-supported HD-DVD.

High capacity DVD disks are needed to store high definition movies on a single disk. Movies stored in high definition provide five to six times more picture detail than standard definition which is used in normal DVDs.

Hollywood studios have been choosing sides in the DVD format war, each supporting one of the two formats. Some have said they will produce films in both, in addition to the standard DVD format.

By putting the same film on a single disk in the two competing formats, movie studios can save money and consumers do not have to worry if they are buying the right disk for their player.

The technological breakthrough by NME was confirmed by ODMS.

"I can confirm this. We were very skeptical when NME approached us. We have experience with producing dual layer recordable DVD discs and the yield is below 50 percent. But their technology gives a much higher yield and also brings other cost savings," said ODMS Chief Executive Jadranko Dovic.

ODMS said it will have the first prototype production line using NME's technology running by early 2007.

NME said it had also created new technology for the machines which have to read and write the disk, which is another bottleneck with multi-layer disks. The current generation of DVD players can read up to two layers.

NME has created DVD disks with up to 10 different layers that were still readable. It has created its own player, but it is willing to license the technology to mainstream consumer electronics companies, Levich said.

Movies on a DVD are stored at different depths depending on the technology. Blu-Ray discs store information only 0.1 millimeter from the surface while HD-DVD discs store it at 0.6 millimeters.

Movies longer than two hours would need to be stored on two layers of the same format very close to each other.
Source (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/09/26/dvd.formats.reut/index.html)

AND take this article into consideration:
Why the Playstation 3 Will Bankrupt Sony (http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/17605)
Snipets

Sony plans on making 6 million PS3 units before April. Let's say that they sell every one of them at full retail price. With what we know about the materials price -- particularly the price of Blu-Ray players -- let's say that they will lose only $300 for every PS3 they sell.

The analysts are counting on Sony making up the sales of machines with the sales of video games. But it's not going to be as easy for Sony this time. Few game developers are making games exclusively for the PS3.

Also, Sony has already said that games would be at least $10 more than the games for the XBox 360 and at least $20 more than the games for the Nintendo Wii. With everything being the same, would you pay $10 or $20 more for the same game that you could play on your XBox 360 or Wii?

In addition, Sony will be nickle-and-diming you at every opportunity -- particularly with the HDMI cable, which will likely cost between $99 and $129. (That's surely why they added an HDMI port for the low-end PS3. They'll make their money back on the cable for it.)

So you want to save Sony. What can you do?

Well, as Sony's Kutaragi says, you need to work a little harder and make a little more money.

Stop complaining that the PS3 costs $600. It doesn't. In order to cut down on its losses, Sony is liable to do the same thing to consumers that it did 11 years ago at the original Playstation launch -- it'll require that you buy two games in order to get a machine. That'll boost the price for you to around $725 or so.

But there's more! Want an HDMI cable? That'll be another $100 to $125. Now we're at $850 or so. You've got a Blu-ray player, so you'll want a few Blu-ray movies -- Sony titles only, of course. Buy six of them while you're at it! At an average list price of $25 each, we're talking another $150. That pushes our total price to an even $1,000.

That'll go a long way to saving Sony.

Now who's going to save you?
Basically, if people just buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player (because like you said, it will be the cheapest out there) then Sony won't be making up all the money they lose. I'll bet 20% of PS3 sales will go to people just using it as a movie player(that's if Blu-Ray becomes the next mainstream format). If that 20% doesn't buy any of the games, then Sony is in a world of hurt. Sony isn't "sly" by any stretch of the imagination.

[Batman_wanna_be]

Well put vman :cheers:

[Dark Shift]

yeah....well..you're....uh...stupider. :watchout:

You make good points V-man, though I think the 20% estimation you put forward is a bit much. I think in general only the diehard fans will be able to obtain PS3's at launch, specifically because a small number of units will be available right at launch, and god forbid someone who just wants to play dvd's will wait up all night in a line to get their hands on one.

Assuming your article on the "new format" of dvd to end the war between formats is the same as the article previously posted here on XBA, this doesn't mean that the blu-ray will be defeated. The introduction of this "new format" simply means that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray format will be possible on one disc, meaning that my PS3 Blu-Ray player will still be able to read the new format, as both formats will be present on the disc. The fact still remains however that more companies will be supporting the blu-Ray player, and probaly still produce exclusives for the blu-ray format, and even if they go multi-format the player will still be fully functional. Perhaps I am mistaken though...

:cheers:

EDIT: by the way, the fact that the PS3/Accessories could run you as much as $1000 at launch is still one hell of a bargain if you look at it. As aforementioned, the next leading competitor as far as blu-ray players go, goes for $1,000 anyways. So for my $1000 in comparison i get: A PS3, Two games, Two Blu-Ray DVD's of my choice, as well as the wondrous HDMI cable (which I'm sure the Blu-Ray player wouldnot have included). Still think it's a bad deal?

[killerscott]

yeah....well..you're....uh...stupider. :watchout:

You make good points V-man, though I think the 20% estimation you put forward is a bit much. I think in general only the diehard fans will be able to obtain PS3's at launch, specifically because a small number of units will be available right at launch, and god forbid someone who just wants to play dvd's will wait up all night in a line to get their hands on one.

Assuming your article on the "new format" of dvd to end the war between formats is the same as the article previously posted here on XBA, this doesn't mean that the blu-ray will be defeated. The introduction of this "new format" simply means that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray format will be possible on one disc, meaning that my PS3 Blu-Ray player will still be able to read the new format, as both formats will be present on the disc. The fact still remains however that more companies will be supporting the blu-Ray player, and probaly still produce exclusives for the blu-ray format, and even if they go multi-format the player will still be fully functional. Perhaps I am mistaken though...

:cheers:

EDIT: by the way, the fact that the PS3/Accessories could run you as much as $1000 at launch is still one hell of a bargain if you look at it. As aforementioned, the next leading competitor as far as blu-ray players go, goes for $1,000 anyways. So for my $1000 in comparison i get: A PS3, Two games, Two Blu-Ray DVD's of my choice, as well as the wondrous HDMI cable (which I'm sure the Blu-Ray player wouldnot have included). Still think it's a bad deal?

Yes I do. Yes its a cheap bluray player, but bluray players are overpriced. Even though its 40% cheaper then a Toshiba bluray player its still more then I, or most of america would spend. Also, in my opinion bluray isn't worth it. Yes, I have seen it demonstrated many times, stood in front of the screan, so I know what it looks like. It looks nice, but I think the DVDs I watch now are fine. The clarity adds absolutily nothing to MY movie experience. I dont know about you though.

edit: Im not saying bluray is overpriced compared to what it costs to produce, Im just saying its an expensive product that I'm not ready to pay extra for. And also, though it was said earlier, I want to remind that the add on is not $400 for the 360 its $200.

[vman]

yeah....well..you're....uh...stupider. :watchout:

You make good points V-man, though I think the 20% estimation you put forward is a bit much. I think in general only the diehard fans will be able to obtain PS3's at launch, specifically because a small number of units will be available right at launch, and god forbid someone who just wants to play dvd's will wait up all night in a line to get their hands on one.

Assuming your article on the "new format" of dvd to end the war between formats is the same as the article previously posted here on XBA, this doesn't mean that the blu-ray will be defeated. The introduction of this "new format" simply means that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray format will be possible on one disc, meaning that my PS3 Blu-Ray player will still be able to read the new format, as both formats will be present on the disc. The fact still remains however that more companies will be supporting the blu-Ray player, and probaly still produce exclusives for the blu-ray format, and even if they go multi-format the player will still be fully functional. Perhaps I am mistaken though...

:cheers:

EDIT: by the way, the fact that the PS3/Accessories could run you as much as $1000 at launch is still one hell of a bargain if you look at it. As aforementioned, the next leading competitor as far as blu-ray players go, goes for $1,000 anyways. So for my $1000 in comparison i get: A PS3, Two games, Two Blu-Ray DVD's of my choice, as well as the wondrous HDMI cable (which I'm sure the Blu-Ray player wouldnot have included). Still think it's a bad deal?
I never said the 20% would be right at launch. I meant eventually, 20% of the PS3's in the world will only be used to play movies. I'm no expert, it is just a guess.

Why would big movie studios make something exclusive to Blu-Ray when they can make more money releasing it on both platforms with one disc?

Yes, I know this doesn't mean Blu-Ray will be defeated, but it sure as hell dampens their fire quite a bit.

Also, anyone who denies PS3 as a good deal, doesn't know what value means. Like you said, $1000 for "PS3, Two games, Two Blu-Ray DVD's of my choice, as well as the wondrous HDMI cable" is a fantastic deal. However, at the end of the day, $1000 is still $1000. It's like if someone was offered to buy a Ferrari F430 for $80,000 but it would have to be cash and all at the same time (no financing) It's a helluva deal but it's still $80,000.

Let me give a scenario of how I think Blu-Ray will lose most of it's sales:
Soccer Mom goes to Best Buy to get a new DVD player cause her's broke. She just heard of these new ones coming out that will offer a better quality of picture due to HighDef technology. She already owns an HDTV so she wants to take advantage of her TV by getting a better quality movie player. She goes directly to the DVD player section. She sees two things side by side: Sony's Blu-Ray for $1,000 and Toshiba's HD-DVD for $500. Not only will she notice the price difference, but she won't know what the hell this "blu-ray" thing is. This is what will go through her head:
"Ha, they spelled 'blue' wrong. I wonder why Sony isn't making highdef DVD players. Why is this thing $1,000? Oh maybe it's some new technology that I won't know how to use. It probably can grow legs and walk around your house. I don't really need that so I'm just gonna grab this HD-DVD player cause I know what it is. Plus, It's cheaper."

[Dark Shift]

It's a helluva deal but it's still $80,000.
Touche...

[l Maximus l]

Betamax got squashed by VHS
Mini Disc got squashed by CDs

Sony's exclusive "Memory Stick" is being squashed by SD Card mainly because all non-Sony made computers that have card slots have access to reading all cards whereas Sony only allows "Memory Stick" only to work with Sony made computers.

Sony is trying to go exclusive and it irritates the hell out of me. his is my biggest peave about Sony. To their credit, though, they do make well-made equipment - it's just difficult to get any other brand to work with it.

HD-DVD has an advantage over Blu-Ray in that HD-DVD players will play all regular DVDs whereas Blu-Ray doesn't. Only the overhyped Blu-Ray enthusiasts will buy Blu-Ray. I believe it will die just like Laser Disc did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater of Sony. Like I said earlier, I believe they make great equipment...it's of high quality and value, there's no question. They are also great competition for Microsoft and Nintendo in the console war and ultimately all of us, the consumers, win in the end because of it.

[mattgame]

Sony will do well because of it's Japanese base. It will do well in the states eventually but I think it will do better when the price goes down. What we also have to take into account about the DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray is the price of the movies. So will the avearge joe spend 1,000 dollars for a Blu-Ray player and what maybe 30 bucks for the movie itself, or will they spend 100 dollars for a dvd player and 10 to 15 bucks for a dvd? It's going to take awhile, and Sony may lose too much money in the process.

As far as consoles go, the winner will be the console with the best first party games, and online services. HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray will not make a difference right now. Thereore, Sony will lose this console war. The 360 will have Halo 3, and Gears of War. The PS3 will have Metal Gear. That's not enough. And please don't say Gran Turismo, because Forza may unseat GT in that department. And we all know that XboLive continues to evolve to become the best aspect about owning a 360. Sony cannot match it.

Also when Zune comes out that's even more reason to support Microsoft and the 360. Microsoft is really making strides for the better and it almost seems like it's daily that they are improving. If they can tap into the Japanese market with all of the RPG's they have coming out look out Sony it's going to be long, long, war.

[y2kash_14]

simply put, Blu-Ray will phail.

[Toder]

was browsing on ps3 prices and came across this http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/28/news_6128295.html

Article says ps3 will sell for 399(US) but who knows which version of the ps3 its talking about. It also warns that sony sells would really hurt if MS lowers price on ps3 launch date. As far as Blu-Ray is concerned its definately a nice piece of media 50 gigs is what i've read on disc can hold.HD DVD has several different types. Single layer is 15gigs, dual 30 gigs, and in development by toshiba a third layer 45 gigs.

Also on the HD DVD front:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/29/hollywood_hd_dvd/

Seems most studios will support the format.

Anyways will be interesting to see what happens. And gl to ya if your planning on buying a ps3 i know EB and Gamestop where taking preorders last week which was very limited.

toder

[y2kash_14]

It will no doubt be supported by all the studios, but it won't be accepted by the public. Everyone used to make movies in UMD format, but nobody bought them and now they're getting pulled from the shelves. I see the same thing happening to blu-ray

[mattgame]

Only because Sony et al. will make it so the average joe can't afford it. If Microsoft drops the price on the 360 that will severely hamper ps3 sales for next year. I believe they will sale all of their ps3's initially.

[vman]

was browsing on ps3 prices and came across this http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/28/news_6128295.html

Article says ps3 will sell for 399(US) but who knows which version of the ps3 its talking about
Posted Jun 28, 2005 4:01 pm PT. That article is over a year old so that info is out-dated.

As for a 360 price drop, it won't happen until Summer 07... the earliest.

[mattgame]

Agreed. Just in time for Sony to expect the ps3 to really sell.

[Toder]

Posted Jun 28, 2005 4:01 pm PT. That article is over a year old so that info is out-dated.

As for a 360 price drop, it won't happen until Summer 07... the earliest.

LOL good eye VMan. Was very late at night and no xbox live makes toder go crazy.

[FuNkY mOnK]

I don't know about you guys but I'm going to have a great time November 12th when Gears of war comes out. Yea baby!!!!!

[lllSmokelll]

ur all wrong, ps3 will have better graphics, 360 graphics arent even that amazing microsoft is stealing ur money, there gona come out with a new xbox in a year or 2 when they see how muhc better ps3 is, and comon, its SONY

[FuNkY mOnK]

ur all wrong, ps3 will have better graphics, 360 graphics arent even that amazing microsoft is stealing ur money, there gona come out with a new xbox in a year or 2 when they see how muhc better ps3 is, and comon, its SONY

:-0 ......?

[mattgame]

ur all wrong, ps3 will have better graphics, 360 graphics arent even that amazing microsoft is stealing ur money, there gona come out with a new xbox in a year or 2 when they see how muhc better ps3 is, and comon, its SONY

Who in the hell gave you the part of antagonist?!?!:cuss:

[FuNkY mOnK]

What the Sony fan boys fail to realize is that MS doesn't dabble in a project they actually go for the competitors throat.Now if you think that the PS3 is so much better fine that's your opinion but one thing is fact, Sony can not sit back and talk the talk anymore, it's now walk the walk. The winner of the console war will be determined by in house development not 2nd and 3rd party developers as they are developing for both systems.

Is PS3 better then 360? according to sources they both have their strength. Only time will tell. But come November 12th most of us gamers will be saying PS3 who?

[vman]

ur all wrong, ps3 will have better graphics, 360 graphics arent even that amazing microsoft is stealing ur money, there gona come out with a new xbox in a year or 2 when they see how muhc better ps3 is, and comon, its SONY
actually, right now, their graphics look basically the same. After X06, people were actually saying that the 360 games were looking a little better. In the long run, yes the PS3 will BE ABLE to shell out better graphics but that won't be realized for a while and you won't notice a true definite difference for about 5 years at the end of each console's life cycle.

In the end, its all in the eye of the beholder and consumers will need to have an HDTV before they can even think about taking advantage of either console's graphical power.

[FuNkY mOnK]

ur all wrong, ps3 will have better graphics, 360 graphics arent even that amazing microsoft is stealing ur money, there gona come out with a new xbox in a year or 2 when they see how muhc better ps3 is, and comon, its SONY

Bla bla bla have you played the ps3? listen numb nuts if you have something intelligent to say, say it or you will be dealing with my stupidity.

[predatorprime]

ur all wrong, ps3 will have better graphics, 360 graphics arent even that amazing microsoft is stealing ur money, there gona come out with a new xbox in a year or 2 when they see how muhc better ps3 is, and comon, its SONY

The graphics ability of the PS3 is limited to superior poly counts. The texture memory is higher on the 360 and the processor treading is better on the 360 allows for quicker processing which allows programmers to focus more processor intense things such as AI. This is verified by Assassins Creed, where UBISoft has been open about the fact that the 360 version will have better AI, and if you look at 2 screen shots from the game in my opinion the 360 looks better.
Now heres the bad part for M$... unless they decide to use the HD-DVD player for games they will limit space for the high def textures, now while most of use don't actually have HD TVs to play the 360 on we may with in a few years. This is where Sony can win some of the fans back. The Blu-ray format, assuming it is still around in 3 years, will allow Sony to load their games with lots of HD textures, and can store them uncompressed to limit the strain on CELL.
All in all I think sony has the potential to be the better system, but and its a big but here... Sony treats their 3rd party companies very poorly. They make exclusivity demands, and offer the companies a much smaller cut of profits then both M$ and the Big N. As Nintendo has proven with the last few systems they released, you cant sell a lot on only first party titles. Sony does not have the profit margin to change these ways either. PS2 did so well because of its market penetration. Even if a company made half the money (per unit sold) off of a PS2 game there was a better chance they would make more because of the number of people with PS2s. As you all may have noticed the more 360 systems sell the more 3rd parties are coming to M$ to release games (Capcom, EA (boo!), Tecmo,Rockstar). The only big companys sony really has left is Namco and Konami, and I predict Namco leaving Sony soon. Expect to sell Soul Calibur as a 360 series and Tekken a PS3 series.
I will go on record making my predictions for this generation of consoles now...
I give M$ the lead, I feel they will have about a 15 to 20% lead over Sony and Nintendo will go the way of Sega once the novelty of the Wii runs out.

And as a final note M$ announced that they have started to work out a new system. It is a 4 to 6 year process to design and manufacture a new system. In the case of PS3 and Wii they were started before the prior generations were released.

Wow that was a lot o crap to write. I hope some one actually reads it.

[vman]

good post, but I very highly doubt Nintendo will be phased out any time soon. Worst case scenario, they become exclusive to handhelds but still make software for regular consoles.

If any console should fall, I think the only one with a chance of that happening is Sony's PS3.

[lllSmokelll]

lol sorry about that earlier comment i made, i just dont think 360 is worth it, ur payin 300 dollars for just graphical upgrade, i hope ps3 will offer some new gameplay, cause thsi new gen isnt that good so far

[predatorprime]

good post, but I very highly doubt Nintendo will be phased out any time soon. Worst case scenario, they become exclusive to handhelds but still make software for regular consoles.

If any console should fall, I think the only one with a chance of that happening is Sony's PS3.

I agree. For the most part though handhelds aren't taken into account when comparing in the console market. If they were Nintendo would be far and away the number here and we wouldn't need to have this chat. I do not however agree that it will be Sony and not Nintendo that will fail. I truly feel that the Wii will lose its appeal extremely quickly. The motion relies heavily on developers actually spending time in development on one specific console which I don't see happening. That and for the most part the games don't seem to hold up to even last gen gamecube games as far as graphics go. Again I would like to stress that I was a tried and true Nintendo man, I was also a huge Sega supporter too. I just feel that the old guard has lost touch with people. I was extremely excited about the motion sensitive controller until I sat down and thought about it. Mario looks awkward, Metroid looks twitchy, COD3 looks like... well sh*t. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo will sell lots of systems, they are just going to have a load of crappy games a horrible ports. Anyone who owns a DS knows what I'm talking about. Innovation like this tends to be very hit or miss. As far as Sony goes people are still riding high off PSOne... I was quoted a few months before PS2 came out as saying that they could come out with a giant peice of crap that doesn't work and still sell... and they did. The PS2 launch is probably the only one that comes close to being as bad as the 360 launch as far a defects yet it still sold. Just wait for all the defect PS3 to come around...I can hear the the Message Boards *****ing now....
Anyways...back to MK If anyone needs some wins come fight me... i suck

Final point to IllSmokelll
I agree that this new gen stuff is a bit of a rip. I do enjoy the 360 though, I just know not to look for anything new or innovative. I expect the same from PS3... just for it to be more expensive graphical fluff

[FuNkY mOnK]

lol sorry about that earlier comment i made, i just dont think 360 is worth it, ur payin 300 dollars for just graphical upgrade, i hope ps3 will offer some new gameplay, cause thsi new gen isnt that good so far

Are you saying the PS3 is worth 600.00 for a graphical upgrade? Maybe i'll give you an idea what the ps3 will bring, they'll bring a bunch of sh it that will mimic the great games like Halo and Gears for starters but will fail miserably,they'll try and give you an Xbox Live experience free...nothing is free and if it is it's a waste of time. Wait for the real reviews when gamers actually play their ps3 launch titles while 360 will be well into the 2nd generation of games.

[y2kash_14]

I think smoke is right... the 360 is pretty much just a graphical upgrade of the Xbox. The PS3 will bring a more original game experience, as did the PS2. It's good to see that the 360 is at least trying to do things other than just make great shooters. I doubt Sony will try to mimmick "great" games like Halo and GoW...PS2 always had the better variety, and it's looking the same for PS3.

As for the 360, I also see it as just a graphical upgrade. Nothing has really changed, we're still relying on shooters to carry the system (GoW, CoD2) But it's at least a little more interesting with the new additions of some RPGs.

[FuNkY mOnK]

I think smoke is right... the 360 is pretty much just a graphical upgrade of the Xbox. The PS3 will bring a more original game experience, as did the PS2. It's good to see that the 360 is at least trying to do things other than just make great shooters. I doubt Sony will try to mimmick "great" games like Halo and GoW...PS2 always had the better variety, and it's looking the same for PS3.

As for the 360, I also see it as just a graphical upgrade. Nothing has really changed, we're still relying on shooters to carry the system (GoW, CoD2) But it's at least a little more interesting with the new additions of some RPGs.

The 360 is more then a graphical upgrade it is the fastest game machine around what more can i say.You will start seeing the best in a few weeks what the next gen will bring.And lets not forget that the best titles are on both systems. But you say the ps3 will bring a more original game experience,how? the ps3 never had an original thought unless you call the eye thing an original concept, winky dink had that in the fifties but that's another story.Dream cast paved the way and brought us the first console on-line, MS took that and built the freeway, at least MS has credit for doing this right. What the hell is Sony bringing to the market that is refreshing and original besides blu-ray and their hype. If 360 was supposedly according to Sony xbox 1.5, why bring this magnificent PS3?why not still keep the ps2? because MS walked the walk.

[predatorprime]

The PS3 will bring a more original game experience, as did the PS2.

PS2 success was because of PSOne.. and PSOnes success was due to innovation.
We unfortunately are in a time in gaming where you really can't do anything new because it will almost always fail. Most the the innovative titles that came to sony came because of market penitration and not because sony asked for them to be innovative.
I personally think the trend of same old games with pretty graphics will continue on both the 360 and the PS3

[FuNkY mOnK]

PS2 success was because of PSOne.. and PSOnes success was due to innovation.
We unfortunately are in a time in gaming where you really can't do anything new because it will almost always fail. Most the the innovative titles that came to sony came because of market penitration and not because sony asked for them to be innovative.
I personally think the trend of same old games with pretty graphics will continue on both the 360 and the PS3

What we really want and wanted for a very long time, is the characters we saw and see in the cinematic cut scenes with there environment. Thanks to the evolution of technology this is becoming a given. Same old games but done in a very realistic way. Until virtual realty, games will be the same but in a more bigger beautiful way. And that's good enough for me.

[predatorprime]

What we really want and wanted for a very long time, is the characters we saw and see in the cinematic cut scenes with there environment. Thanks to the evolution of technology this is becoming a given. Same old games but done in a very realistic way. Until virtual realty, games will be the same but in a more bigger beautiful way. And that's good enough for me.

I just like games that are fun... I could care less how they look.
I play my XBLA games more than anything. That alone for me is a big enough reason to own a 360

[vman]

I think you'll see soon that a lot of the new games will not only be a "graphical upgrade" but also an upgrade in the sheer size on the gaming world. i.e. Mass Effect

[Ainokeatoo]

Smoke obviously has hardly any clue of what he's talking about, microsoft isn't one of the biggest companies/profitable companies in the world for no reason, they don't waste money, nay, they won't waste money and time designing a console for over a year, just so it could die after the next year it comes out. No company in the world is that stupid, no successfull company that is. Microsoft, right now, is trying to create hit games like the old school ones, mario, zelda, Mortal Kombat, etc.... They are going to make sure that their console, their product, is better on launch date, throughout the course of the products life time (evidentally till they design and release a newer product). So no, Microsoft isn't just going to release another console in a years time. Along with that, half the games on the ps2 had low quality graphics.... Not that I hate ps2 or anything.... But what does graphics matter? If you like the game why care what it looks like?


Also kash, microsoft, more or less, xbox, hasn't been around long enough to create hit titles like sony and nintendo, or even sega had. Microsoft is just dipping it's feet into the world of gaming, they need time. Yeah I know what you're going to say, what 6 somethin years isn't long enough? No it's not long enough, Halo was a pretty good game yeah, I admit it, and it's one of those games that leave a mark like Mario, Zelda, and MK among others. But there are hardly any games out yet on the xbox or xbox 360 that will really leave a mark and is original. Basically, it's just on time, ms needs time... That's all...

[y2kash_14]

Sony never brought an original game experience?

Ico, Katamari series, MGS series, Final Fantasy series, Shadow of Collosus, Guitar Hero, Okami, Devil May Cry series, God of War, Gran Turismo series, Soul Calibur 3, Jak series, and Ratchet and Clank series...and these are just the critically acclaimed hits that have brought an original gaming experience.

And Ainokea, I'm not talking about just the hit titles like Halo, because heck...Ico never sold well and it's still considered one of the most unforgettable game experiences of all time. I realize 6 years isn't enough to produce titles of Zelda status, I don't even think Halo should be that much of an icon. But I am talking about original games, which was the initial argument, "the ps2 never had an original game experience"

[lllSmokelll]

some good points, but i think bottom line, ur paying for basically graphical upgrade, gameplay is not revolutionary:confused:

[predatorprime]

I disagree with the major of the titles you listed kash. A good number of them were sequels from the PSOne and were sales carry overs becuase of that. I unfortunately never got to play ICO all though I've heard lots of good things... Shadow of Collosus was a spirtul sequel to it. Okami is excuded as well, even though I have heard it is heavily influenced by the Zelda series
there are 2 games a take a BIG except to and that would be the Jak series and God of War.Naughty Dog is one of the most over rated developers around...come on they made Crash for christ sake. Please do not get me started on the turd named God of War... through a gimmick kill system and everyone flocks to it like hookers in GTA.
I believe I've said this already but I'm going to say it again. Innovation in gaming is pretty much dead. You can't really sell a game to the majority if its at all outside of the mainstream. It is unfortunate to be honest. I bought a DS for the simple reason that I could import titles from Japan. Japan is where the innovation is...
Beatmania, Jump Superstars, Animal Crossing, Trauma Center, Katamari, hell even DOAX is innovative in its own way.
I think this will come down to opinion. I owned a PS2 and a Xbox... I actually own or have owned every NA released system with the exception of Neo Geo and Virtual Boy, and to be completely honest based on innovation alone the DC is the clear cut winner. No company will ever be able to introduce the number of ground breaking features that it did. I still remember dling my first save game on seganet...it was a save for Marvel vs Capcom LOL. Anyways, I'm very happy with the 360 and I think it is just as good as the PS3 will be. Sony has more potential but I think they lost a lot of their supports with the cost/delays/lost exclusives

AS a final point not matter what its really only going to be a graphical upgrade... Devil May Cry 1000 or GTA 35 aren't new titles so they aren't really innovative LOL

[FuNkY mOnK]

To answer y2kash,I believe that Ico is the only game out of all you mentioned made by in house developer Sony entertainment I could be wrong, the rest are 2nd and third party developers that can eventually shift to the other side. You see anyone with deep pockets can purchase developers. The real war starts when it comes to who's going to have the best in house developers. All the technological advancements mean squat without it.So my question still remains unanswered, What has Sony brought us thats original over MS.

[FuNkY mOnK]

some good points, but i think bottom line, ur paying for basically graphical upgrade, gameplay is not revolutionary:confused:

Give us your impression as to what revolutionary should be. I’d give you mine but I already got warned a long time ago from the moderators that there are young ones here and deleted my post.

[Soda Jones]

I'm buying a wii and sticking with my XBOX 1

[thatdude222]

I believe it will die just like Laser Disc did.
Chuck Norris owns the entire "Back to the Future" trilogy on laser disc.

[NiNeBReaKeR]

I'm buying a wii and sticking with my XBOX 1
me2 but only cause i cannot afford the ps3

[Slacker]

I never said the 20% would be right at launch. I meant eventually, 20% of the PS3's in the world will only be used to play movies. I'm no expert, it is just a guess.

Why would big movie studios make something exclusive to Blu-Ray when they can make more money releasing it on both platforms with one disc?

Yes, I know this doesn't mean Blu-Ray will be defeated, but it sure as hell dampens their fire quite a bit.

Also, anyone who denies PS3 as a good deal, doesn't know what value means. Like you said, $1000 for "PS3, Two games, Two Blu-Ray DVD's of my choice, as well as the wondrous HDMI cable" is a fantastic deal. However, at the end of the day, $1000 is still $1000. It's like if someone was offered to buy a Ferrari F430 for $80,000 but it would have to be cash and all at the same time (no financing) It's a helluva deal but it's still $80,000.

Let me give a scenario of how I think Blu-Ray will lose most of it's sales:
Soccer Mom goes to Best Buy to get a new DVD player cause her's broke. She just heard of these new ones coming out that will offer a better quality of picture due to HighDef technology. She already owns an HDTV so she wants to take advantage of her TV by getting a better quality movie player. She goes directly to the DVD player section. She sees two things side by side: Sony's Blu-Ray for $1,000 and Toshiba's HD-DVD for $500. Not only will she notice the price difference, but she won't know what the hell this "blu-ray" thing is. This is what will go through her head:
"Ha, they spelled 'blue' wrong. I wonder why Sony isn't making highdef DVD players. Why is this thing $1,000? Oh maybe it's some new technology that I won't know how to use. It probably can grow legs and walk around your house. I don't really need that so I'm just gonna grab this HD-DVD player cause I know what it is. Plus, It's cheaper."



I agree with you 100% , HD-DVD means what it says , and the majority of consumer's buy on sight , they don't research anything ,they don't shop by brand name they shop by price , bottom line period,

[killerscott]

I agree with you 100% , HD-DVD means what it says , and the majority of consumer's buy on sight , they don't research anything ,they don't shop by brand name they shop by price , bottom line period,

Nah, the majority buys what other people tell them to buy. Example : where I work everyone comes in looking for I-Pods. They tell me what they need, I often point out a much cheaper solution, but they still want the ipod.

Advertising is key. If they here about it they go shopping and ask, "what is this bluray I keep hearing about?" and so on.

[predatorprime]

Nah, the majority buys what other people tell them to buy. Example : where I work everyone comes in looking for I-Pods. They tell me what they need, I often point out a much cheaper solution, but they still want the ipod.

Advertising is key. If they here about it they go shopping and ask, "what is this bluray I keep hearing about?" and so on.

I don't really buy that... I worked retail for about 3 or 4 years at an electronics retailer, and people were always looking for the cheapest option. They may go in looking for a Blu ray because of adverts but if you tell them that 1) the unit costs almost twice as much, and 2) that the media costs a bit more, they will go with HD-DVD. Honestly I think both will fail. DVD players haven't been mainstream long enough for people to be willing to replace them with a new player. It will be 4 or 5 years until most people even consider doing that. Then you have to take into account that HD Tv are only about 20% of the video market and you realize that there is no reason to buy one anyways. There are a good chunk of people that own TV that can't even run DVD players properly, why would they buy a HD player?
My estimate... BluRay dead is 4 years, HD-DVD dead is 5 1/2, at that point something better will be out and out sell both formats and take over for DVD.

[vman]

ate... BluRay dead is 4 years, HD-DVD dead is 5 1/2, at that point something better will be out and out sell both formats and take over for DVD.
DVD2... oh yeah!:hump:

[predatorprime]

DVD2... oh yeah!:hump:

LOL no DVD360