RockTheCasba
07-21-2007, 02:00 AM
hmm maybe ill gamefly it and see how it is. i just got ncaa 08 tho. Review (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/807/807182p1.html)
All-Pro Football 2K8 Review
Not quite ready for prime time.
by Hilary Goldstein
July 20, 2007 - In 2004 Visual Concepts released one of the greatest football games of all time with ESPN NFL 2K5. And it was only $20. No sooner had SEGA and VC popped the cork on the champagne than EA swooped in and signed an exclusive licensing deal with the NFL, essentially killing the 2K football franchise. Fans wept. The VC team redistributed itself to help out on other sports titles. All seemed lost for 2K fans. Now, three years later, Visual Concepts has finally regrouped with a new gridiron title sans NFL license. All-Pro Football 2K8 plays and feels a whole lot like NFL 2K5, but the brilliant presentation and feature set of VC's last great football game didn't make the next-gen transition.
Because it lacks the NFL license, no current pro players, teams, or stadiums can appear in All-Pro 2K8. To make the experience satisfying, Visual Concepts gathered a bevy of retired pros and allowed gamers to draft their own teams. The Hall of Fame roster is impressive. Dan Marino, John Elway, Jerry Rice, and **** Butkus are among the superstar roster. There are also a healthy number of lower-tier pros, many of whom had decent but not Hall of Fame careers. There's also Eric Bienemy, the former second string running back for the Chargers known only to a few thousand people. And yes, O.J. Simpson also made the list. Don't worry, the Juice is searching for the real killers on the gridiron.
This large collection of more than 240 players is assembled into your own personal motley crew the first time you turn on All-Pro 2K8. You get to select two Gold Star players (Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, etc.), three Silver Star players (Randal Cunningham, Leslie O'Neal, etc.), and six Bronze Star players (Jim Harbaugh, Alvin Harper, etc.). In other words: Gold = Hall of Famer; Silver = Pro Bowler; Bronze = Played in the NFL. There is never an option to alter these numbers. You can't sacrifice three Bronze players for a Gold. There are no trades. There's not even a true draft. Even if you just wanted an All-Star scrimmage with a friend, you are out of luck. This limitation is perhaps All-Pro's greatest fault. For a game that must find replayability without a franchise mode, "have it your way" should have been All-Pro's motto.
Perhaps what's more frustrating is that in the barebones season mode, you will play against other teams that have a great variety of skilled players. One team will have no Gold Star players, while another might have five. This was done intentionally to avoid parity in the league. But that could have been achieved by putting some variants in coaching and player AI. Instead, every team tends to play pretty much the same. Even as you bump the difficulty, only the hidden statistics change; the AI only becomes minimally more improved. This is a stark change from NFL 2K5, which had some of the best AI around.
Visual Concepts' most radical departure from what we've seen previously from football games is the complete removal of statistics. Instead of seeing that Jerry Rice has a 99 in "Catch" and "Route Running," the greatest wide receiving in NFL history is measured by his special abilities. Rice is a Route God, Clutch, has Break Away Burst, Soft Hands, and earns a Leadership Bonus. These abilities define Rice in real life and on the virtual field. Each player has some number of abilities. Obviously, the upper-tier players will have more than the Eric Bienemies of the world.
There are more than 80 different abilities in All-Pro 2K8. Most of these merely enhance a player's normal abilities. Brick Wall gives a lineman superior pass blocking skills, Laser Arm increases the accuracy of a QB's passes, and Quick Feet means a player has excellent agility. Others affect a player in more interesting ways. A Workhorse gets better the more he gets the ball and a QB with the 4th Quarter Comeback ability (like John Elway) is at his best when trailing at the end of games. A few abilities have specific game applications. You might be a Signal Stealer, meaning you can press a button before every snap for a random chance to see your opponent's play.
The abilities are a good idea and will likely play a role in how you build your team. You may choose Mike Singletary over Derrick Thomas simply for #50's signal stealing ability. And because he's a better Linebacker. With a limited number of star players available for your team, smart gamers will assemble a crew that compliments one another. If you have a pass rushing D-Line, you'll probably want to pick a star linebacker with run stopping ability to lend support. The ability system may turn off some who are used to the old school ways of console football, but it's a good fit for All-Pro. It's better to have a variety of skill sets than to see a bunch of 99s for every Hall of Fame player.
Once you have your team assembled, there's little else to do other than get on the field. Visual Concepts couldn't rely on face scans for its players, so instead had to try and recreate some well-known faces by hand. The end result is a bit of a mixed bag, but many players look close to their real-life counterparts. It's just too bad Joe Montana turned out looking more like a stick of melted butter than the calm and cool 49ers QB we know and love. While some of the faces are spot-on, players' actions on the field (and little details like accessories) often don't match their true-life counterparts. The first time Barry Sanders did a dance after scoring a TD, I almost puked. VC wouldn't let O.J. perform the throat slash (thankfully), so why not keep Sanders and Rice true to their humble natures?
A few nice presentation touches have been included with All-Pro's debut. At the coin toss and in special "Field Pass" moments, gamers get cinematic views of key players who will chatter with their teammates. These add a bit more personality to the game, though it would have been nice if there were a greater variety in voices. Often the same voice will share a conversation. Commentary is provided by longtime fictional 2K broadcasters Dan Stevens and Peter O'Keefe. These two haven't lost a step. And while the commentary is occasionally incorrect, it's still nice to have the classic duo back again. It certainly beats getting a half-assed radio broadcast.
Gameplay is the key to any great sports experience and in this, All-Pro Football 2K8 delivers. This feels very much like real football. Blocking opens up legitimate holes; linebackers hold up running backs while waiting for a teammate to deliver a punishing blow or strip the ball; rarely can you just chuck and pray in the passing game. Much of the sense of realism is due to the stunning animations, which are top notch. There are some great subtleties in the animations, particularly when a halfback is being dragged to the ground. You'll see backs trying to slip through the grasp of linemen, receivers tiptoeing along the sideline as their momentum carries them out of bounds, and quarterbacks shuffle their feet and duck the arm tackle of a pass rusher. It can be exhilarating at times.
But All-Pro isn't perfect. The AI feels lifeless. No team plays a particular way or has a distinct feel. There isn't an Air Coryell constantly going for long bombs or a nose-to-the-grind Bill Cowher. The AI opponent makes very calculated and predictable decisions on offense and tends to leave holes in pass coverage on defense. Even with the difficulty cranked to the max, the competition doesn't appear to get smarter; its hidden skill rankings just get ratcheted up a notch. The playcalling isn't any better, the coverage is only slightly tighter, but picks are more common and tackles more assured from the defense. It feels disappointingly artificial.
Next-gen sports means you have to make use of the right thumbstick. It's expected at this point. All-Pro does a few decent things on this end. On offense the right thumbstick offers some quick-step abilities for your QB and minor juke moves for ball carriers. On defense VC introduces the Reach Tackle System. You can perform all your tackles on the thumbstick, though it's not always effective. In action, the reach system makes use of All-Pro's excellent animations. If a running back blows past you, jab the thumbstick to the left and watch as your linebacker swings out an arm hoping to at least slow the back down. Get behind a receiver on his way to the endzone and you'll make a futile grab for his jersey. It looks great, but even with direct contact, it seems to rarely be effective. It's certainly a system to build on in future iterations of the series.
The kicking game has also been moved to the right thumbstick. Just pull back in preparation and push forward as the kicker's foot hits the ball. It makes sense, certainly, but it's very sensitive. NFL kickers pooch punts or kickoffs from time to time, but it's a little ridiculous in All-Pro. If you miss the small window for a good kick, you are pretty much hosed. It happens too often to be acceptable. It's curious why, with the kick stick judging the angle of a kick, VC felt the need to keep it's silly moving kick pointer. Has anyone ever liked this thing? It feels more unnecessary than ever before.
Just as Madden had a weak feature set with its first next-gen outing, so too does All-Pro. There's no franchise mode and just a sorry excuse for a season mode to hold your interest in single-player. The season mode is very basic -- It's 16 games, plus the playoffs. Once that's over, the season ends and you have to start fresh. There's not even a Pro Bowl to allow you the chance to play with a loaded roster of football studs. There's no player progression, no trades, and no unlockables. The default settings include injuries, by the way. So your star QB could break his arm in week six and you would have no option to replace him. That's just awful.
Visual Concepts had a fantastic opportunity with All-Pro Football. With no NFL license, they are free to do what they please. Why make a 16-game season? Why do a traditional playoff structure? Why keep the exact same rules as the NFL? I'm not suggesting that All-Pro be turned into another Blitz, but there was no need to keep the bad things of the NFL along with the good. The NFL's overtime structure sucks. Everyone knows it. So why not try something new? Why have the same exact penalties? Or at least allow a high level of game customization so I can create my own type of league.
Fortunately, the multiplayer is solid. Online runs fairly smooth, though there are occasional hitches and dropped matches. But with online leagues, player cards, and the ability for multiple players to roll on the same team, any slight hiccups in the gameplay experience are forgivable. The interface itself is somewhat sparse and unspectacular, but it's more appealing than what's offered to those playing alone.
Closing Comments
As a longtime 2K fan, I have begrudgingly accepted Madden for the past few years. After all, I had no other viable options. I wanted All-Pro Football 2K8 to be the return to glory. That isn't the case. There are definitely some good things to build and grow on for next year, but the overall package is too sparse. While much of the gameplay is great, the AI needs a tune-up. If you're looking for a football game expressly for multiplayer, give All-Pro Football 2K8 a chance. But if you're the type that wants a deep single-player experience, you'll want to pass up All-Pro. It's just not quite there yet.
IGN Ratings for All-Pro Football 2K8 (X360)
Rating Description See Our Glorious Home Theater Setup!
out of 10 click here for ratings guideGet Ratings Information
7.0 Presentation
There are a few nice touches here and there, but the cupboard is mostly bare. The lack of franchise and game customization is a let-down.
7.5 Graphics
The animations save the day and are the bright spot for All-Pro's visuals. But the field textures are terrible and the game doesn't look as clean or vibrant as the competition.
7.5 Sound
Gotta love Dan Stevens and Peter O'Keefe back in the game. The crowd sounds are reactive and refreshingly intelligent. The remixed version of Rush's Tom Sawyer is a travesty.
8.0 Gameplay
It plays great. Though there are a few issues with alligator arms and AI, it's still a fun game.
6.0 Lasting Appeal
There's no franchise mode and the season mode is pretty much worthless. This is a multiplayer game through and through.
7.6
Good OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)
All-Pro Football 2K8 Review
Not quite ready for prime time.
by Hilary Goldstein
July 20, 2007 - In 2004 Visual Concepts released one of the greatest football games of all time with ESPN NFL 2K5. And it was only $20. No sooner had SEGA and VC popped the cork on the champagne than EA swooped in and signed an exclusive licensing deal with the NFL, essentially killing the 2K football franchise. Fans wept. The VC team redistributed itself to help out on other sports titles. All seemed lost for 2K fans. Now, three years later, Visual Concepts has finally regrouped with a new gridiron title sans NFL license. All-Pro Football 2K8 plays and feels a whole lot like NFL 2K5, but the brilliant presentation and feature set of VC's last great football game didn't make the next-gen transition.
Because it lacks the NFL license, no current pro players, teams, or stadiums can appear in All-Pro 2K8. To make the experience satisfying, Visual Concepts gathered a bevy of retired pros and allowed gamers to draft their own teams. The Hall of Fame roster is impressive. Dan Marino, John Elway, Jerry Rice, and **** Butkus are among the superstar roster. There are also a healthy number of lower-tier pros, many of whom had decent but not Hall of Fame careers. There's also Eric Bienemy, the former second string running back for the Chargers known only to a few thousand people. And yes, O.J. Simpson also made the list. Don't worry, the Juice is searching for the real killers on the gridiron.
This large collection of more than 240 players is assembled into your own personal motley crew the first time you turn on All-Pro 2K8. You get to select two Gold Star players (Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, etc.), three Silver Star players (Randal Cunningham, Leslie O'Neal, etc.), and six Bronze Star players (Jim Harbaugh, Alvin Harper, etc.). In other words: Gold = Hall of Famer; Silver = Pro Bowler; Bronze = Played in the NFL. There is never an option to alter these numbers. You can't sacrifice three Bronze players for a Gold. There are no trades. There's not even a true draft. Even if you just wanted an All-Star scrimmage with a friend, you are out of luck. This limitation is perhaps All-Pro's greatest fault. For a game that must find replayability without a franchise mode, "have it your way" should have been All-Pro's motto.
Perhaps what's more frustrating is that in the barebones season mode, you will play against other teams that have a great variety of skilled players. One team will have no Gold Star players, while another might have five. This was done intentionally to avoid parity in the league. But that could have been achieved by putting some variants in coaching and player AI. Instead, every team tends to play pretty much the same. Even as you bump the difficulty, only the hidden statistics change; the AI only becomes minimally more improved. This is a stark change from NFL 2K5, which had some of the best AI around.
Visual Concepts' most radical departure from what we've seen previously from football games is the complete removal of statistics. Instead of seeing that Jerry Rice has a 99 in "Catch" and "Route Running," the greatest wide receiving in NFL history is measured by his special abilities. Rice is a Route God, Clutch, has Break Away Burst, Soft Hands, and earns a Leadership Bonus. These abilities define Rice in real life and on the virtual field. Each player has some number of abilities. Obviously, the upper-tier players will have more than the Eric Bienemies of the world.
There are more than 80 different abilities in All-Pro 2K8. Most of these merely enhance a player's normal abilities. Brick Wall gives a lineman superior pass blocking skills, Laser Arm increases the accuracy of a QB's passes, and Quick Feet means a player has excellent agility. Others affect a player in more interesting ways. A Workhorse gets better the more he gets the ball and a QB with the 4th Quarter Comeback ability (like John Elway) is at his best when trailing at the end of games. A few abilities have specific game applications. You might be a Signal Stealer, meaning you can press a button before every snap for a random chance to see your opponent's play.
The abilities are a good idea and will likely play a role in how you build your team. You may choose Mike Singletary over Derrick Thomas simply for #50's signal stealing ability. And because he's a better Linebacker. With a limited number of star players available for your team, smart gamers will assemble a crew that compliments one another. If you have a pass rushing D-Line, you'll probably want to pick a star linebacker with run stopping ability to lend support. The ability system may turn off some who are used to the old school ways of console football, but it's a good fit for All-Pro. It's better to have a variety of skill sets than to see a bunch of 99s for every Hall of Fame player.
Once you have your team assembled, there's little else to do other than get on the field. Visual Concepts couldn't rely on face scans for its players, so instead had to try and recreate some well-known faces by hand. The end result is a bit of a mixed bag, but many players look close to their real-life counterparts. It's just too bad Joe Montana turned out looking more like a stick of melted butter than the calm and cool 49ers QB we know and love. While some of the faces are spot-on, players' actions on the field (and little details like accessories) often don't match their true-life counterparts. The first time Barry Sanders did a dance after scoring a TD, I almost puked. VC wouldn't let O.J. perform the throat slash (thankfully), so why not keep Sanders and Rice true to their humble natures?
A few nice presentation touches have been included with All-Pro's debut. At the coin toss and in special "Field Pass" moments, gamers get cinematic views of key players who will chatter with their teammates. These add a bit more personality to the game, though it would have been nice if there were a greater variety in voices. Often the same voice will share a conversation. Commentary is provided by longtime fictional 2K broadcasters Dan Stevens and Peter O'Keefe. These two haven't lost a step. And while the commentary is occasionally incorrect, it's still nice to have the classic duo back again. It certainly beats getting a half-assed radio broadcast.
Gameplay is the key to any great sports experience and in this, All-Pro Football 2K8 delivers. This feels very much like real football. Blocking opens up legitimate holes; linebackers hold up running backs while waiting for a teammate to deliver a punishing blow or strip the ball; rarely can you just chuck and pray in the passing game. Much of the sense of realism is due to the stunning animations, which are top notch. There are some great subtleties in the animations, particularly when a halfback is being dragged to the ground. You'll see backs trying to slip through the grasp of linemen, receivers tiptoeing along the sideline as their momentum carries them out of bounds, and quarterbacks shuffle their feet and duck the arm tackle of a pass rusher. It can be exhilarating at times.
But All-Pro isn't perfect. The AI feels lifeless. No team plays a particular way or has a distinct feel. There isn't an Air Coryell constantly going for long bombs or a nose-to-the-grind Bill Cowher. The AI opponent makes very calculated and predictable decisions on offense and tends to leave holes in pass coverage on defense. Even with the difficulty cranked to the max, the competition doesn't appear to get smarter; its hidden skill rankings just get ratcheted up a notch. The playcalling isn't any better, the coverage is only slightly tighter, but picks are more common and tackles more assured from the defense. It feels disappointingly artificial.
Next-gen sports means you have to make use of the right thumbstick. It's expected at this point. All-Pro does a few decent things on this end. On offense the right thumbstick offers some quick-step abilities for your QB and minor juke moves for ball carriers. On defense VC introduces the Reach Tackle System. You can perform all your tackles on the thumbstick, though it's not always effective. In action, the reach system makes use of All-Pro's excellent animations. If a running back blows past you, jab the thumbstick to the left and watch as your linebacker swings out an arm hoping to at least slow the back down. Get behind a receiver on his way to the endzone and you'll make a futile grab for his jersey. It looks great, but even with direct contact, it seems to rarely be effective. It's certainly a system to build on in future iterations of the series.
The kicking game has also been moved to the right thumbstick. Just pull back in preparation and push forward as the kicker's foot hits the ball. It makes sense, certainly, but it's very sensitive. NFL kickers pooch punts or kickoffs from time to time, but it's a little ridiculous in All-Pro. If you miss the small window for a good kick, you are pretty much hosed. It happens too often to be acceptable. It's curious why, with the kick stick judging the angle of a kick, VC felt the need to keep it's silly moving kick pointer. Has anyone ever liked this thing? It feels more unnecessary than ever before.
Just as Madden had a weak feature set with its first next-gen outing, so too does All-Pro. There's no franchise mode and just a sorry excuse for a season mode to hold your interest in single-player. The season mode is very basic -- It's 16 games, plus the playoffs. Once that's over, the season ends and you have to start fresh. There's not even a Pro Bowl to allow you the chance to play with a loaded roster of football studs. There's no player progression, no trades, and no unlockables. The default settings include injuries, by the way. So your star QB could break his arm in week six and you would have no option to replace him. That's just awful.
Visual Concepts had a fantastic opportunity with All-Pro Football. With no NFL license, they are free to do what they please. Why make a 16-game season? Why do a traditional playoff structure? Why keep the exact same rules as the NFL? I'm not suggesting that All-Pro be turned into another Blitz, but there was no need to keep the bad things of the NFL along with the good. The NFL's overtime structure sucks. Everyone knows it. So why not try something new? Why have the same exact penalties? Or at least allow a high level of game customization so I can create my own type of league.
Fortunately, the multiplayer is solid. Online runs fairly smooth, though there are occasional hitches and dropped matches. But with online leagues, player cards, and the ability for multiple players to roll on the same team, any slight hiccups in the gameplay experience are forgivable. The interface itself is somewhat sparse and unspectacular, but it's more appealing than what's offered to those playing alone.
Closing Comments
As a longtime 2K fan, I have begrudgingly accepted Madden for the past few years. After all, I had no other viable options. I wanted All-Pro Football 2K8 to be the return to glory. That isn't the case. There are definitely some good things to build and grow on for next year, but the overall package is too sparse. While much of the gameplay is great, the AI needs a tune-up. If you're looking for a football game expressly for multiplayer, give All-Pro Football 2K8 a chance. But if you're the type that wants a deep single-player experience, you'll want to pass up All-Pro. It's just not quite there yet.
IGN Ratings for All-Pro Football 2K8 (X360)
Rating Description See Our Glorious Home Theater Setup!
out of 10 click here for ratings guideGet Ratings Information
7.0 Presentation
There are a few nice touches here and there, but the cupboard is mostly bare. The lack of franchise and game customization is a let-down.
7.5 Graphics
The animations save the day and are the bright spot for All-Pro's visuals. But the field textures are terrible and the game doesn't look as clean or vibrant as the competition.
7.5 Sound
Gotta love Dan Stevens and Peter O'Keefe back in the game. The crowd sounds are reactive and refreshingly intelligent. The remixed version of Rush's Tom Sawyer is a travesty.
8.0 Gameplay
It plays great. Though there are a few issues with alligator arms and AI, it's still a fun game.
6.0 Lasting Appeal
There's no franchise mode and the season mode is pretty much worthless. This is a multiplayer game through and through.
7.6
Good OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)