Mortal Kombat vs. Street Fighter

[Symmetric-XBA]

With the announcement of SFXT, and the upcoming release of the new Mortal Kombat game, its getting clear that the fighting genre of games is coming back with a vengance. Recently an old idea of a Mortal Kombat X Street Fighter game has resurfaced and has been talked about being made. What are your thoughts on this?

[ILLUSIVE]

I think they should do it after this next MK, but keep it 100% CANON, and as a DIRECT sequel to this next Mortal Kombat game (which, I think, takes place after Armageddon)...

Also, I think the MK v DC game was cool (and I own it), but that they should learn their lessons from that one and keep the MK v SF game in the 'mature' department, with complete MK fatalities and all...

[Justin Bailey]

I think they should do it after this next MK, but keep it 100% CANON, and as a DIRECT sequel to this next Mortal Kombat game (which, I think, takes place after Armageddon)...

Also, I think the MK v DC game was cool (and I own it), but that they should learn their lessons from that one and keep the MK v SF game in the 'mature' department, with complete MK fatalities and all...


There's no way Capcom allows the SF characters to be in a game with fatalities and blood galore. Seeing as how SF is king of the fighting genre, MK would most likely have to fit into the SF universe and gameplay than the other way around.

I'd love to see it, but I have serious doubts of them allowing that (same reason as DC not allowing fatalities etc in MK vs DC)

[ILLUSIVE]

There's no way Capcom allows the SF characters to be in a game with fatalities and blood galore. Seeing as how SF is king of the fighting genre, MK would most likely have to fit into the SF universe and gameplay than the other way around.

I'd love to see it, but I have serious doubts of them allowing that (same reason as DC not allowing fatalities etc in MK vs DC)

Hmm... Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call Street Fighter the 'king of the fighting genre' in any objective sort of way... I'm sure theres tons of people that prefer SF over Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Soul Caliber, Virtua Fighter, etc. --- however, there are also tons of people who would prefer one of the other brands over all the rest... In my view, Mortal Kombat would be my favorite brand of fighting games (of all time), and I honestly think that if a large poll was taken --- you would have Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat being two of the most popular fighting games of all time, if not THE two most popular...

[Justin Bailey]

Hmm... Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call Street Fighter the 'king of the fighting genre' in any objective sort of way... I'm sure theres tons of people that prefer SF over Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Soul Caliber, Virtua Fighter, etc. --- however, there are also tons of people who would prefer one of the other brands over all the rest... In my view, Mortal Kombat would be my favorite brand of fighting games (of all time), and I honestly think that if a large poll was taken --- you would have Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat being two of the most popular fighting games of all time, if not THE two most popular...

I'm talking in terms of sales, brand recognition and history....street fighter IV sold more than tekken 6, soul calibur 4 or any other recent fighting game (outside of super smash bros., but that has more to do with it being 1 of the 5 wii games actually worth owning lol) and many say that street fighter 4 made 2d fighting games relevant again. Street Fighter 2 did the same thing back in the 90's, put fighting games on the map. The reason we got so many great franchises over the years is directly related to street fighter 2's gameplay and popularity.

I am a HUGE fighting game fanatic, so i'm not saying this as personal bias or as a slight to the other great franchises, but you can't ignore sales numbers and the overall impact that the street fighter brand has brought to the genre.

As for my personal preference, I would have a hard time ranking them so I'll just list some of my favorites; street fighter, mortal kombat, soul calibur, tekken, killer instinct, dead or alive, smash bros, power stone, fatal fury, guilty gear, bloady roar.......well that's all I can think of off the top of my head :cool:

[Justin Bailey]

So I found this story and the producer of the new Mortal Kombat says almost exactly what I said above.

Link to Gameinformer article (http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/08/22/mortal-kombat-vs-street-fighter-a-possibility.aspx)

With the recent reincarnations of the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat franchises -- not to mention the newly announced Street Fighter X Tekken -- could gamers ever see a Mortal Kombat vs. Street Fighter team-up? Hector Sanchez certainly thinks so. And he's the producer of the upcoming MK reboot.

CVG is reporting that Sanchez not only thinks it's possible gamers will one day be playing a compilation of the two legendary franchises, but that such a product would be "inevitable" provided Street Fighter X Tekken does well -- and that Capcom and Warner Bros. can resolve the franchise's mismatched violence. "Obviously there are problems with that," Sanchez said. "I'm not sure Capcom would be happy with Scorpion ripping Ken's head off."

Despite the hurdles, Sanchez revealed that the idea is nothing new. Mortal Kombat creator Ed Boon reportedly pitched the idea for the team-up over ten years ago. With all the fighting crossovers in the past few years, I can't wait until the world's developers band together and finally make a game with every fighter from every series battling it out all at the same time.

[Fargoth]

I have always been a big Mortal Kombat diehard while I do love street fighter I still believe MK will always be better. It has had it's ups and downs of good and bad games, but if you look at the old school MK with the fatalities it beats street fighter any day.

Post from China :)

[Symmetric-XBA]

I'd love to see capcom allow fatalities and agree to this crossover. I don't know about anyone else, but I believe that they could do some amazing fatalities for all the SF characters (I'd love to see Akuma man handle some of the MK crew).

My personal list of fav fighters would rank:

1) Killer Instinct
2) Street Fighter
3) Mortal Kombat
4) Soul Calibur
5) Tekken

[Variation-XBA]

My personal list of fav fighters would rank:

1) Killer Instinct


Good man!! :rockout:

[Symmetric-XBA]

lol it would have saved me money if I had just bought a KI arcade machine lol. I swear I put that arcade owner's son through college w/ the quarters I dropped in it lol.

[Variation-XBA]

lol it would have saved me money if I had just bought a KI arcade machine lol. I swear I put that arcade owner's son through college w/ the quarters I dropped in it lol.

You and me both...you and me both...

[Justin Bailey]

you and me both...you and me both...




uullllttrraaaaa cooooommmbbbboooooo!!!!!!

[Ricepuppet]

MUGEN anyone?

[rezzurekted]

..

I think the mk v dc game was cool (and i own it),

loser! Lol

[ILLUSIVE]

"I'm talking in terms of sales, brand recognition and history....street fighter IV sold more than tekken 6, soul calibur 4 or any other recent fighting game (outside of super smash bros., but that has more to do with it being 1 of the 5 wii games actually worth owning lol) and many say that street fighter 4 made 2d fighting games relevant again."

1) I've got to be perfectly honest with you... I don't know the sales history of every single major fighting game franchise, but I would simply say that Mortal Kombat sales are almost certainly quite excellent --- with the exception of MK v DC (and a couple others)...

2) As far as brand recognition goes, I would say that Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter are relatively equal --- while you can't say the same about LESSER known fighting games like Soul Caliber, etc...

3) With history, I would say (once again), that Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter are pretty much equal... Yes, the original Street Fighter came out a few years before the original Mortal Kombat, but the original Mortal Kombat (unlike the original SF, IMO) was incredibly popular --- and only came out about a year after Street Fighter 2...

ALSO: I remember hanging out with my peers when those first great Mortal Kombat games were coming out, and I can confirm that the majority of these people were more into Mortal Kombat than they were Street Fighter --- almost certainly one of the key reasons being the fact that MK was releasing TRUE sequels, while Street Fighter just kept making new Street Fighter 2 games...

[ILLUSIVE]

"So I found this story and the producer of the new Mortal Kombat says almost exactly what I said above."

The producer/person did not say (and/or imply) what you've been talking about... The only part where he could be considered even coming CLOSE to saying something along the lines of what you said was where he talked about Ken having a fatality performed on him... He did not ackowledge that Street Fighter was the 'king of the fighting genre', that an MK v SF game would have to abide by Capcoms rules (only), or really anything else that you've been saying...

OBVIOUSLY if a Street Fighter versus Mortal Kombat game were to eventually be made, the Mortal Kombat people may have to make some modifications to their product to better suit them to the Street Fighter atmosphere --- that is a given... But giving the impression that Mortal Kombat would be stepping into Street Fighter's territory, and would have to abide by everything they say is just plain false --- as there would just simply have to be a COMPROMISE, or tradeoff... The MK crew would have to make some modifications, and so would the Street Fighter crew --- as it goes both ways...

[ILLUSIVE]

"I have always been a big Mortal Kombat diehard while I do love street fighter I still believe MK will always be better. It has had it's ups and downs of good and bad games, but if you look at the old school MK with the fatalities it beats street fighter any day."

^--- I agree with that, and also would even go so far as to say that Mortal Kombat itself was revolutionary in the fighting genre...

[ILLUSIVE]

loser! Lol

^---Thank you for your theory...

[Justin Bailey]

"So I found this story and the producer of the new Mortal Kombat says almost exactly what I said above."

The producer/person did not say (and/or imply) what you've been talking about... The only part where he could be considered even coming CLOSE to saying something along the lines of what you said was where he talked about Ken having a fatality performed on him... He did not ackowledge that Street Fighter was the 'king of the fighting genre', that an MK v SF game would have to abide by Capcoms rules (only), or really anything else that you've been saying...

OBVIOUSLY if a Street Fighter versus Mortal Kombat game were to eventually be made, the Mortal Kombat people may have to make some modifications to their product to better suit them to the Street Fighter atmosphere --- that is a given... But giving the impression that Mortal Kombat would be stepping into Street Fighter's territory, and would have to abide by everything they say is just plain false --- as there would just simply have to be a COMPROMISE, or tradeoff... The MK crew would have to make some modifications, and so would the Street Fighter crew --- as it goes both ways...


nope, sorry but you're just flat out wrong and even the dev that I quoted said that they couldn't have fatalities, so it wouldn't be a Mortal Kombat game, it would be a Street Fighter game with mortal kombat characters thrown in the mix. Their wouldn't be blood or fatalities for the exact reasons I stated. Perhaps I should have been clearer by what I meant, but yes, if you read between the lines that's exactly what he's saying.

All you've done in your "argument" is given anecdotal evidence of how Mortal Kombat is just as popular by talking with your friends. That doesn't prove anything. What can be proven is that over the years Street Fighter has outsold Mortal Kombat and every other fighting game regardless if it had simple updates (turbo etc) or actual numbered sequals.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but its a simple fact that Street Fighter IS the king and MANY devs have stated over the years that they were inspired by Street Fighter including Ed Boon and John Tobias (creators of MK) but wanted to create something darker and more violent and what we got was MK.

Perhaps you are too young to understand the impact that Street Fighter had on the arcade industry, but like I've said over and over, Street Fighter is what put fighting games on the map and allowed games like Mortal Kombat to be greenlighted. Further, in markets outside of the US, Mortal Kombat isn't really that big at all. Japan in the 90's had a HUGE coin-op industry and Mortal Kombat wasn't even on the radar there, it was all about Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter.

In the end I am getting the feeling that you think I'm somehow saying that Mortal Kombat is a lesser series, when that couldn't be further from the truth. I love the Mortal Kombat series and couldn't honestly say that I prefer one over the other. In fact I would even go as far as to say that Mortal Kombat II took more of my time at the local arcades than Street Fighter Turbo did, so its not like I'm some SF fanboy. My whole point is that Street Fighter is and always will be king for the very FACTS I stated.

[ILLUSIVE]

"nope, sorry but you're just flat out wrong and even the dev that I quoted said that they couldn't have fatalities, so it wouldn't be a Mortal Kombat game, it would be a Street Fighter game with mortal kombat characters thrown in the mix. Their wouldn't be blood or fatalities for the exact reasons I stated. Perhaps I should have been clearer by what I meant, but yes, if you read between the lines that's exactly what he's saying."

1) The truth is that theres not very much 'reading between the lines' to do in the first place, but even if there was, the uncontested fact of the matter is that the quote you listed STILL does not say what you claim it does...

2) The person you quoted DID NOT say that there 'couldn't be fatalities' in a Street Fighter versus Mortal Kombat game, he simply suggested that Capcom may not be happy with them (from a theoretical standpoint)... And his theory is a theory because there hasn't be a (recent), and official, discussion regarding a MKvSF video game regarding what would be acceptable and what wouldn't be... For all that person knows, the Capcom guys (at this point in time) may actually LOVE the idea of Ken having a fatality performed on him --- as long as Ken has the ability to do it right back...

3) And I will say again that both the Mortal Kombat AND the Street Fighter games are big time heavy hitters in the fighting game genre... You can most certainly make the argument that Street Fighter is the CURRENT most popular fighting game around --- and that viewpoint may have some credibility to it... But to say and or imply that it is the all around (and/or all time) 'king' of that particular gaming genre would be a QUESTIONABLE theory, at best, and just flat out wrong --- at worst...

[ILLUSIVE]

"All you've done in your "argument" is given anecdotal evidence of how Mortal Kombat is just as popular by talking with your friends. That doesn't prove anything. What can be proven is that over the years Street Fighter has outsold Mortal Kombat and every other fighting game regardless if it had simple updates (turbo etc) or actual numbered sequals."

First of all, I'd like to see the proof of every Street Fighter game outselling every Mortal Kombat game --- that would be quite interesting...

Second of all, you are doing virtually the exact same thing as myself --- in the sense of using 'anecdotal' (or a "brief story" of) information as a substitute for scientific evidence laid out in the conversation...

[ILLUSIVE]

"I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but its a simple fact that Street Fighter IS the king and MANY devs have stated over the years that they were inspired by Street Fighter including Ed Boon and John Tobias (creators of MK) but wanted to create something darker and more violent and what we got was MK."

1) You haven't even come close, in any way shape or form, to hurting my feelings --- as you are just simply expressing your personal belief system and/or theory about why you think your favorite fighting game is the 'king' of the fighting genre...

2) If you have the interview where Boon and Tobias are say what you claim, I'd like to see it... On the contrary, the truth of the matter is that people (and business companies) take advice from their predecessors ALL THE TIME in order to knock them off later (from a competitive standpoint)... And you are more than welcome to hold any type of conflicting belief system, but I would suggest that around the era of the ORIGINAL Mortal Kombat II and Mortal Kombat III periods, the MK franchise ruled over Street Fighter hands down...

[ILLUSIVE]

"Perhaps you are too young to understand the impact that Street Fighter had on the arcade industry, but like I've said over and over, Street Fighter is what put fighting games on the map and allowed games like Mortal Kombat to be greenlighted. Further, in markets outside of the US, Mortal Kombat isn't really that big at all. Japan in the 90's had a HUGE coin-op industry and Mortal Kombat wasn't even on the radar there, it was all about Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter."

1) You have not even the slightest clue of my age, and the majority of people know that Street Fighter 2 had a pretty decent impact on the fighting genre --- but as I stated earlier --- the ORIGINAL Mortal Kombat game was right behind SF2, and came out the very next year (if I'm not mistaken)...

2) Second of all, the truth is that the original Mortal Kombat game getting 'green-lighted' is a bit of a deceptive statement --- as the game itself had limitations imposed on it's gore system...

3) And I'm sure that Mortal Kombat may not be as big (in other countries) as it is was where it is most popular --- as the same circumstances may go with extremely popular games (in the US and/or Canada) that don't go over very well in third world countries, island nations, or wherever...

[Symmetric-XBA]

I know how we should handle this. We should have a XBA Fighting Tournament. Something that spans multiple titles both SF and MK and allow ppl to win prizes and more? Sound interesting??

[Fargoth]

Eh lets keep the language and the quadruple million posting to a minimum yo.


I'm down with the fighting tournament I'm a superb button masher and hadoken spammer.

[Symmetric-XBA]

I'm down with the fighting tournament I'm a superb button masher and hadoken spammer.

lol and I'll hit ya w/ a c-c-c-c-combo br.... wait... wrong game, sorry lol.

[ILLUSIVE]

"Eh lets keep the language and the quadruple million posting to a minimum yo."

Perhaps another day... Sound like a plan?

[ILLUSIVE]

Anyway... If symmetric is serious about a real tournament, I can't participate because I would get absolutely DISMANTLED against anybody at a high level... I can play (and beat) people on Mortal Kombat versus DC Universe at an average level, but I can't play good people on that game and/or Street Fighter 4 (unfortunately)...

[Justin Bailey]

OK you asked for them......

Highest selling Street Fighter game - 6.3 million (http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=street+fighter+2&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total) Street Fighter 2 (snes)
Highest selling Mortal Kombat game - 2.79 million (http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=mortal+kombat&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total) Mortal Kombat Trilogy (PS)

for more recent entries

Street Fighter 4 - 3.17 million (combined ps3/360)
Mortal Kombat vs DC - 2.28 million (combined ps3/360)

[ILLUSIVE]

"OK you asked for them......

Highest selling Street Fighter game - 6.3 million Street Fighter 2 (snes)
Highest selling Mortal Kombat game - 2.79 million Mortal Kombat Trilogy (PS)"

I believe I asked for data proving that all Street Fighter games have outsold Mortal Kombat games --- but the truth is that you probably won't find that data...

[ILLUSIVE]

"for more recent entries

Street Fighter 4 - 3.17 million (combined ps3/360)
Mortal Kombat vs DC - 2.28 million (combined ps3/360)"

^---But as far as this goes, I think that even further solidifies my point of Street Fighter being pretty much on the same level as Mortal Kombat (with neither being classified as the 'King') --- since the HIGHLY recognized Street Fighter 4 couldn't even sell a million more copies of it's game by comparison to a relatively weak entry into the Mortal Kombat series...

And I hope we can agree on MKvDC being a relatively weak entry into the series, although I can still say that I (personally) still liked it...

[ILLUSIVE]

Anywho... After reviewing some of the (what I'm assuming to be correct and accurate) data on that website you've listed, Justin, I noticed something quite interesting... And that is if you do a DIRECT overall comparison of the TOTAL sales figures, by simple typing in "Street Fighter" and then "Mortal Kombat" --- the truth is that the overall sales are pretty close to being even, with Mortal Kombat having a slight edge...

[Justin Bailey]

"for more recent entries

Street Fighter 4 - 3.17 million (combined ps3/360)
Mortal Kombat vs DC - 2.28 million (combined ps3/360)"

^---But as far as this goes, I think that even further solidifies my point of Street Fighter being pretty much on the same level as Mortal Kombat (with neither being classified as the 'King') --- since the HIGHLY recognized Street Fighter 4 couldn't even sell a million more copies of it's game by comparison to a relatively weak entry into the Mortal Kombat series...

And I hope we can agree on MKvDC being a relatively weak entry into the series, although I can still say that I (personally) still liked it...



I simply said that SF has sold more, which I just showed. However this proves the HUGE difference in best selling games from each franchise and honestly I'm a little surprised at how lop-sided those numbers are. (I thought Mortal Kombat 2 would be much higher)

As far as the more recent numbers, its hard to gauge how much an effect having superman and company had to the sales, I would speculate quite a bit.

In terms of a more recent standalone Mortal Kombat game -

Mortal Kombat Armageddon - .91 million (ps2)

here's some xbla numbers from 2008

SF2- 401,517k
MK3 - 320,000k

So pretty close numbers here, but 80k is still more.

oh and here's a story about super street fighter 2 turbo HDR breaking digital sales numbers (http://www.capcom-unity.com/johndmoney/blog/2008/12/18/super_street_fighter_ii_turbo_hd_remix_achieves_record_breaking_sales?pg=9)


Now after all this, I'd once again like to point out I've said numerous times that I love both franchises and don't consider my saying that SF is king meaning its "better" than Mortal Kombat. But the history, sales, and recognition worldwide are why I consider it to be the top game.

[Justin Bailey]

Anywho... After reviewing some of the (what I'm assuming to be correct and accurate) data on that website you've listed, Justin, I noticed something quite interesting... And that is if you do a DIRECT overall comparison of the TOTAL sales figures, by simple typing in "Street Fighter" and then "Mortal Kombat" --- the truth is that the overall sales are pretty close to being even, with Mortal Kombat having a slight edge...

depends on what you include. Mortal Kombat had two games that I would definitely not include as being fighters (mortal kombat sub zero and shaolin monks are platforming/adventure games respectively) so if you take those two out, street figher is ahead in terms of pure fighting games (one could also include the marvel vs capcom, seeing as how it was made by capcom, but i'll leave them out) either way, the numbers are a lot closer when you do a total sales like that. I will admit I was wrong about the sales overall, but my original point wasn't strickly about sales, it was more about the total impact that Street Fighter had on a genre that previously was VERY niche.

[ILLUSIVE]

"I simply said that SF has sold more, which I just showed. However this proves the HUGE difference in best selling games from each franchise and honestly I'm a little surprised at how lop-sided those numbers are. (I thought Mortal Kombat 2 would be much higher)"

1) Except I just used the data on your own website to prove that, in fact, Mortal Kombat had sold more games (although by a slight margin)...

2) Mortal Kombat 2 sold over 4 million copies... I'd say thats some pretty strong sales numbers...

[ILLUSIVE]

"In terms of a more recent standalone Mortal Kombat game -

Mortal Kombat Armageddon - .91 million (ps2)"

^---Interesting how you bring up (arguably) one of the weakest Mortal Kombat installments to support your argument...

Anywho... Continuing with that overall idea, heres the numbers for Street Fighter Alpha Anthology (PS2), which were "0.02"

[ILLUSIVE]

"SF2- 401,517k
MK3 - 320,000k

So pretty close numbers here, but 80k is still more."

^---This is simply one example of a direct comparison between a Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat game, where Mortal Kombat loses... Another excellent example of Mortal Kombat losing would be putting in DIRECTLY up against the original Street Fighter 2 (sales-wise)... The site you listed only has sales numbers for the Sega Genesis Mortal Kombat release, for whatever reason and as far as I can tell... But I would be willing to bet that the combined total of Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis (original) Mortal Kombat sales matched Street Fighter 2's 6 million plus sales...

However... If you take the follow up to the original Street Fighter 2, which I believe was called Street Fighter 2 Turbo --- and compare that game head to head with the follow up to the original Mortal Kombat (i.e. MK2), the winner is indeed Mortal Kombat 2 (sales wise and based on the data from your listed website)...

Same exact situation with the ORIGINAL Mortal Kombat 3 (MK Trilogy and UMK3 excluded) head to head with SF2 Turbo's follow up, called Super Street Fighter 2... Mortal Kombat outsells Street Fighter (according to that website)...

[ILLUSIVE]

"Now after all this, I'd once again like to point out I've said numerous times that I love both franchises and don't consider my saying that SF is king meaning its "better" than Mortal Kombat. But the history, sales, and recognition worldwide are why I consider it to be the top game."

1) Sales-wise, and based on the data you've presented, I will respectfully say once again that SF is not the superior brand (and/or the 'king')...

2) I've already disputed the hostory and recognition issue earlier, and pointed out that your opinion (on this particular issue) would be questionable as well...

[Justin Bailey]

"In terms of a more recent standalone Mortal Kombat game -

Mortal Kombat Armageddon - .91 million (ps2)"

^---Interesting how you bring up (arguably) one of the weakest Mortal Kombat installments to support your argument...

Anywho... Continuing with that overall idea, heres the numbers for Street Fighter Alpha Anthology (PS2), which were "0.02"


I never said Armageddon was a good title, I simply showed the most recent NEW game in the series outside of the VS DC since that's not a true MK game imo. (the street fighter you listed was only released in Japan and a compilation of the alpha series) I guess it was a bad example....

[ILLUSIVE]

depends on what you include. Mortal Kombat had two games that I would definitely not include as being fighters (mortal kombat sub zero and shaolin monks are platforming/adventure games respectively) so if you take those two out, street figher is ahead in terms of pure fighting games (one could also include the marvel vs capcom, seeing as how it was made by capcom, but i'll leave them out) either way, the numbers are a lot closer when you do a total sales like that. I will admit I was wrong about the sales overall, but my original point wasn't strickly about sales, it was more about the total impact that Street Fighter had on a genre that previously was VERY niche.

1) And you are more than welcome to backpedal after further analysis of the hard data... But that doesn't change the fact that you made the claim and/or implication that Street Fighter was the 'king' of fighters (in the sales department) --- which it clearly is not...

2) I do agree with one of your points in this post, claiming that the Mortal Kombat adventure games should (perhaps) be taken out of the equation... But if you were to do that, you would be putting 25 listed Street Fighter entries next to only 20 Mortal Kombat listings --- and I think it's safe to say that if you simply added the Super Nintendo sales figures for the original Mortal Kombat, it would be game over for Street Fighter...

3) Marvel vs Capcom was not a Street Fighter game, although it (obviously) had SF characters...

[ILLUSIVE]

I never said Armageddon was a good title, I simply showed the most recent NEW game in the series outside of the VS DC since that's not a true MK game imo. (the street fighter you listed was only released in Japan and a compilation of the alpha series) I guess it was a bad example....

Yeah, I would see listing Armageddon's sales figure's as about a bad example as listing (whatever) one of the top 2 worst Street Fighter games was...

I'm also not sure why you don't view MKvDC as a "true" MK game...

[Justin Bailey]

"SF2- 401,517k
MK3 - 320,000k

So pretty close numbers here, but 80k is still more."

^---This is simply one example of a direct comparison between a Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat game, where Mortal Kombat loses... Another excellent example of Mortal Kombat losing would be putting in DIRECTLY up against the original Street Fighter 2 (sales-wise)... The site you listed only has sales numbers for the Sega Genesis Mortal Kombat release, for whatever reason and as far as I can tell... But I would be willing to bet that the combined total of Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis (original) Mortal Kombat sales matched Street Fighter 2's 6 million plus sales...

However... If you take the follow up to the original Street Fighter 2, which I believe was called Street Fighter 2 Turbo --- and compare that game head to head with the follow up to the original Mortal Kombat (i.e. MK2), the winner is indeed Mortal Kombat 2 (sales wise and based on the data from your listed website)...

Same exact situation with the ORIGINAL Mortal Kombat 3 (MK Trilogy and UMK3 excluded) head to head with SF2 Turbo's follow up, called Super Street Fighter 2... Mortal Kombat outsells Street Fighter (according to that website)...

dude where are you getting your numbers from? if you compare SF2T to MK2; Turbo wins 5.76 to 4.32. Mortal Kombat 3 did sell more than super SF, but they are also missing gensis numbers for ssf2, so its hard to say how accurate this site really is overall, its all I could find.


Also I don't buy that the original MK figures are that close to sf2's numbers (based soley on the fact that nintendo wouldn't allow blood or fatalities in the first but quickly changed that for the second) I can't prove it either way cause sales numbers are apparently very speculative from what I've gathered and they don;t even list them on that site for some reason.

[Justin Bailey]

Yeah, I would see listing Armageddon's sales figure's as about a bad example as listing (whatever) one of the top 2 worst Street Fighter games was...

I'm also not sure why you don't view MKvDC as a "true" MK game...

because its a vs game and its not part of the MK canon (its part of the ultimate-Elseworlds for DC comics), they changed a large part of what made MK different from the pack (very brutal fatalities)

I will also say that I've hated every single 3d mortal kombat and 3d street fighter equally. I'm very glad to see MK returning to its former glory. I would personally rank Mortal Kombat 2 as my favorite and consider it to be the most balanced of the series.


If it makes you happy Illusive, I will take back my statement and claim both Street Fighter AND Mortal Kombat as the kings of fighting games (lol until you throw tekken in the mix that is)

[ILLUSIVE]

"dude where are you getting your numbers from? if you compare SF2T to MK2; Turbo wins 5.76 to 4.32."

I'm getting my sales numbers from the website you've listed, but on the contrary, I think it would be more important to ask YOU where you're getting your numbers from --- since the listed for Street Fighter 2 Turbo says "4.10" and not "5.76"...

[ILLUSIVE]

I think I see what you did, Justin, and it looks like you've added the Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition's sales to that of the Super NES version of Street Fighter 2 Turbo... The only problem with doing that would simply be that "Special Champion Edition" is not "Street Fighter 2 Turbo"...

[ILLUSIVE]

"Also I don't buy that the original MK figures are that close to sf2's numbers (based soley on the fact that nintendo wouldn't allow blood or fatalities in the first but quickly changed that for the second) I can't prove it either way cause sales numbers are apparently very speculative from what I've gathered and they don;t even list them on that site for some reason."

You seem to be missing something pretty key with this one, as the attention itself (of the original Mortal Kombat having the gore to begin with) almost certainly helped to add to this video games sales... <---That, and the idea of MK being revolutionary in it's genre...

[Fargoth]

Two fighting games. Two different concepts. Two great games. Why must we argue?

[Variation-XBA]

Two fighting games. Two different concepts. Two great games. Why must we argue?

Oblivion > Morrowind!

TAKE THAT!

[Symmetric-XBA]

Why must we argue?

I guess I didn't clearly state that the fighting tourney was just an idea lol. Dam, i've heard of warmups before a big match, but wow, these two have started their prep work really early lol.

[Symmetric-XBA]

Oblivion > Morrowind!

TAKE THAT!

Laughs > Variation

ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh snap! lmao

[Fargoth]

Oblivion > Morrowind!

TAKE THAT!

You sir are an ass! I challenge you to a duel.

[Variation-XBA]

Laughs > Variation

ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh snap! lmao

That would be true except he's Newfie, so he gets 3.5 points deducted, which clearly puts me in the lead

[Ainokeatoo]

Laughs > Variation

ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh snap! lmao

OH YEAH?

Symmetric > Symmetric

... Damn :( I'm not good at this game, can we play a different one?

[ILLUSIVE]

Two fighting games. Two different concepts. Two great games. Why must we argue?

Because debating is the American way...

[Symmetric-XBA]

That would be true except he's Newfie, so he gets 3.5 points deducted, which clearly puts me in the lead

I always forget that dam .5

[RalliArtEvo]

Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat would be AMAZING! Didn't Boon and Tobias talk about wanting to do this years ago?


http://tabmok99.mortalkombatonline.com/liukangs_dragonball_fatality.gif


http://tabmok99.mortalkombatonline.com/chunkick.gif

[rezzurekted]

^---Thank you for your theory...

It wasn't a theory!

[ILLUSIVE]

It wasn't a theory!

Sure it was... But another accurate statement would be to classify it as your personal belief system...

[Symmetric-XBA]

ok here's my .02 on this issue. the bottom line, when you combine all the sales of allllllll the sf games and alllllllll the mk games, mk has sf beat. sure you can nit-pick different individual games and compare the individual game sales, but at the end of the day its part of a history of fighting game evolution. street fighter was a revolutionary title that helped revamp the fighting game industry and became an instant staple in the fighting game genre. mortal kombat took what street fighter did for the fighting game genre and became more innovated with their ideas and started a cult classic. now i've read all this talk about sales figures and numbers, etc.. however, there is something that can not be argued against and that is that capcom with the release of Street Fighter 4 brought new life to the sf world, however, then later on they release ssf4 and the sales tanked by comparison. now I feel that capcom is starting to become a little desperate with their sf series w/ the inclusion of the new tekken crossover. mk I also feel is in the same boat b/c gamers have seen a decrease in quality of the mk series over the years past mk2. gamers have gotten tired of the same ol' same ol' from the mk series and wanted something new to bring the series back to its glory days, however, we have yet to see it as mk vs. dc and all the other garbage in the series have surfaced and none of them brought with them the innovation and the "wow" factor that made the mk series originally one of the best. both titles have their place in history, and both titles have their own mark on the fighting game genre and the arcade as well. with the total sales of mk being over 23 million and sf just breaking 20, I hope that the sf series doesn't start back down the dark path just to make a quick buck off of our expense. this new mortal kombat imo will be the defining staple of the next gen fighting games. no more of this 3D friendship babality b.s. just hardcore mk like we have always been wanting. unf. I guess you have to wade through the b.s. to get to the quality.

[ILLUSIVE]

Symmetric,

1) I think accurate (all time) sales figures could go either way, when comparing Street Fighter directly to Mortal Kombat --- but after using Justin’s own data, things appear to be going MK’s way…

^---That still doesn’t change my view of Street Fighter being on pretty much the exact same level as Mortal Kombat, in my view, with neither being the ‘king’ and/or superior…

2) I would agree that Street Fighter 4 was a big hit, and I would even suggest the idea of SF being the CURRENT (although not the all time) ‘king’ of the fighting genre… I expect the situation to change after the new Mortal Kombat game comes out though…

3) I personally wouldn’t view the Mortal Kombat people (especially not Ed Boon) as feeling desperate… I think he knows his franchise isn’t necessarily in danger of complete failure at this point, although he simultaneously recognizes it’s previous flaws --- and is listening to the fans…

4) I also don’t see a decrease in quality of Mortal Kombat games after MK2, as I loved it’s direct sequel --- Mortal Kombat 3... Mortal Kombat 4, on the other hand, I thought was an O-K Mortal Kombat game --- although like some of it’s sequels (like MK: DA and Deception), it had some limitation on finishing maneuvers, unlike Mortal Kombat 2 and 3...

However, I still loved many of the post MK2 games, including: MK3, UMK3, MK: Deadly Alliance, MK: Shaolin Monks, MK: Deception…

Also: I think Boon has finally realized the limitation on finishing moves (in the newer games), and it looks like they are going to include at least ONE of the previous maneuvers (in this new MK) of these three: Animalities, Friendships, and Babalitites… Personally, I hope Friendships return…

5) I don’t think Street Fighter will go back down that dark road if it either:

A) Gets working on a DIRECT sequel to Street Fighter 4 (I.E. Street Fighter 5), instead of doing several upgrades to that same title…

B) Have huge success with the Tekken crossover…

Or

C) Make the Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat game with ALL traditional Street Fighter AND Mortal Kombat elements kept in place (including fatalities)…

[RalliArtEvo]

based on what I read from those sales numbers (if they are even correct) both series are pretty much even (SF overall 22.96 vs Mk overall 23.12). Although if we are going by sales numbers, Tekken smashes both SF and MK (31.21 total), so I'd like to throw that series in the mix as being one of the top dogs.

All this being said, I'm really happy to see the fighting game genre making a comeback. Its been too long since we had this rivalry going between the top fighters.


oh and one more thing MAKE A NEW KILLER INSTINCT RARE!!!

[Fargoth]

I liek super smash bros.

[rezzurekted]

2) I would agree that Street Fighter 4 was a big hit, and I would even suggest the idea of SF being the CURRENT (although not the all time) ‘king’ of the fighting genre… I expect the situation to change after the new Mortal Kombat game comes out though…



LOL thats the most outrageous comment ive ever heard anyone say LMAO

There is no way in hell Mortal Kombat will EVER out do Street Fighter for the simple reason it isn't good enough and nothing (apart from finsihing moves) stands out! everything is ripped right from Street Fighter and the fact is people only play them (mainly) for their "Finishing Moves" anyways, they have tried coming to their selective audience in different way to try and be different other than other the top gore etc but its nothing that hasn't been done before. Fact is the only thing that seriously "separates" Kombat from other games is always to fiddly to pull off (finishing moves) and remember half the time people get frustrated with it, but yeah thats the main reason people play Mortal Kombat games because clearly it isn't for the "gripping" story or history of characters lol, End of the day Mortal Kombat will always be second best (in my and many other peoples eyes) but trying to tell someone who is clearly a fan boy of this series is totally pointless really.

[ILLUSIVE]

"There is no way in [***] Mortal Kombat will EVER out do Street Fighter"

Except Mortal Kombat has already done so, hence the reality of your theoretical viewpoint circling the drain right at the very beginning of your argument... LOL

[ILLUSIVE]

"but yeah thats the main reason people play Mortal Kombat games because clearly it isn't for the "gripping" story or history of characters lol"

Fighting games, generally speaking, don't exactly have REALLY excellent plot and/or plot history by comparison to a great RPG or something like a Metal Gear Solid video game --- that is a given... However, the Mortal Kombat games still HAVE a pretty interesting story (to many fans), and character and character backround history that fans are VERY interested in --- therefore your comment here would simply be false...

[ILLUSIVE]

"End of the day Mortal Kombat will always be second best (in my and many other peoples eyes)"

And on the contrary, Mortal Kombat will considered to be the superior fighting game (by comparison to Street Fighter) by a different group of people than you are referring to --- hence, either way things go, you are still dealing with subjective viewpoints and OPINIONS...

But whats NOT an opinion, is the fact that BOTH Mortal Kombat AND Street Fighter are two of the top fighting games of all time --- with neither of the games being superior, or classified as the 'king', in any OBJECTIVE sense --- and outside of a biased fans subjective viewpoint and/or opinion...

[ILLUSIVE]

based on what I read from those sales numbers (if they are even correct) both series are pretty much even (SF overall 22.96 vs Mk overall 23.12). Although if we are going by sales numbers, Tekken smashes both SF and MK (31.21 total), so I'd like to throw that series in the mix as being one of the top dogs.

All this being said, I'm really happy to see the fighting game genre making a comeback. Its been too long since we had this rivalry going between the top fighters.


oh and one more thing MAKE A NEW KILLER INSTINCT RARE!!!

Wow! I just looked up the Tekken thing, and not only is what you said correct, but it's only based on 10 listings for the Tekken games! Whereas the total games you get after searching "Street Fighter" on that website (I believe) came to about 25 listings...

[rezzurekted]

ILLUSIVE try quoting things in one post there's enough room you know.

And secondly your full of sh*t! Street Fighter is the more popular choice for many fighting game fans and always will be (excluding Tekken im talking about MK/SF) as far as marketing and everything goes street fighter has the win, so you can stop multi quoting me in so many posts just to get your post list up! LOL

You can also stop being a compete pr*ck and claiming you know everything and putting peoples "opinions" down your not as smart as you think, everyone is smart as f*ck when they have the world of information at their finger tips, basically nobody likes a smart arse who tries to diminish peoples opinions! that labels them a complete douche!

:) have a nice day!

[Symmetric-XBA]

ILLUSIVE try quoting things in one post there's enough room you know.

And secondly your full of sh*t! Street Fighter is the more popular choice for many fighting game fans and always will be (excluding Tekken im talking about MK/SF) as far as marketing and everything goes street fighter has the win, so you can stop multi quoting me in so many posts just to get your post list up! LOL

You can also stop being a compete pr*ck and claiming you know everything and putting peoples "opinions" down your not as smart as you think, everyone is smart as f*ck when they have the world of information at their finger tips, basically nobody likes a smart arse who tries to diminish peoples opinions! that labels them a complete douche!

:) have a nice day!

woah man eeeeaaaasssyyyy does it there. lol everyone's got an opinion. come to the dark side, we've got cookies lol. if theres a contradiction in opinion, thats fine (thats how I learn a lot from other ppl by listening to their viewpoint and logic). I agree there's no reason to outright destroy someone's opinion, but there are always other ways of approaching and dealing w/ situations that contradict what you feel to be correct. so about those cookies........ lol

[Symmetric-XBA]

oh and one more thing MAKE A NEW KILLER INSTINCT RARE!!!

I've told you for years to give up hope on this. It will save you years of disappointment and anger. Better yet, write off Rare completely, you'll feel all warm and fuzzy inside when you do. I wish I could have asked a few questions about that @ E3, but then again, I don't think I had anything nice to say so I guess its good that it didn't happen lol. Rare has abandonment issues that I hope get resolved. Nothing like bailing on a popular franchise for your company.... how's that workin for ya Rare?

[rezzurekted]

so about those cookies........ lol


Oooo what cookies do you have? lol could do with a few munchies for tonight lol

Yeah you are right man, i go over the top sometimes but i just don't people talking down to me when they don't even know me and have only been on here 5 seconds just seems down right cheeky.

As most who know me and have been on here a while have a good laugh with me and either ignore me or just tell me to shut up lol but arrogance and ****iness isn't accepted from people who haven't been here long enough and think they know everything!

[Symmetric-XBA]

Oooo what cookies do you have?

I've got some chocolate chip cookies for ya! :) lol. Remember though, you only get them when you cross over to the dark side lol. sooooo.... cookie anyone? I think you would rather have a chocolate chip cookie, or you can always follow Variation into his van.. he's got candy lol.

[rezzurekted]

I've got some chocolate chip cookies for ya! :) lol. Remember though, you only get them when you cross over to the dark side lol. sooooo.... cookie anyone? I think you would rather have a chocolate chip cookie, or you can always follow Variation into his van.. he's got candy lol.

Nah i dont like candy so much i'll take the cookies please, shouldn't these cookies have been given to me since day one tho ive always been on the darkside lol

[RalliArtEvo]

I've told you for years to give up hope on this. It will save you years of disappointment and anger. Better yet, write off Rare completely, you'll feel all warm and fuzzy inside when you do. I wish I could have asked a few questions about that @ E3, but then again, I don't think I had anything nice to say so I guess its good that it didn't happen lol. Rare has abandonment issues that I hope get resolved. Nothing like bailing on a popular franchise for your company.... how's that workin for ya Rare?



actually if anyone is to blame its microsoft. They own Rare and tell them what to be working on, hence Rare working on all this Kinect bs and avatar crap. So before throwing Rare under the bus, realize who the real culprit is. So you can thank Kinect for taking any hope we had of a sequel going out the window, since that's all Rare is working on now.

[Symmetric-XBA]

actually if anyone is to blame its microsoft. They own Rare and tell them what to be working on, hence Rare working on all this Kinect bs and avatar crap. So before throwing Rare under the bus, realize who the real culprit is. So you can thank Kinect for taking any hope we had of a sequel going out the window, since that's all Rare is working on now.

lol yeah I can see your point, however with Kinect being the reason for taking all hope out of our sails I can't see how thats the reason. Rare and MS have had YEARS... not just a couple of years but over 10 (if my memory serves me correctly) to develop and get this out to the world, and did they? no. Instead we got years of broken promises, teases that never came true, and a whole bunch of upset people. lol so yeah, give up hope on KI and you'll find a happy place :)

[RalliArtEvo]

lol yeah I can see your point, however with Kinect being the reason for taking all hope out of our sails I can't see how thats the reason. Rare and MS have had YEARS... not just a couple of years but over 10 (if my memory serves me correctly) to develop and get this out to the world, and did they? no. Instead we got years of broken promises, teases that never came true, and a whole bunch of upset people. lol so yeah, give up hope on KI and you'll find a happy place :)

what do you mean you can't see why Kinect is the reason we have even less hope now than before? If kinect didn't exist then Rare wouldn't be exclusively working on kinect titles, thus we might have a .0001% chance of getting a new KI. Now that percentage drops down to .000000000000000000001% chance :mad:

Believe me, after last years e3 (09) came and went with another no show, I learned to let go of Killer Instinct. Luckily I still have my N64 with KI gold, so at least I can play that and pretend its a new KI lol

[rezzurekted]

Luckily I still have my N64 with KI gold, so at least I can play that and pretend its a new KI lol

WOW thats some imagination you have then lol

[Symmetric-XBA]

Now that percentage drops down to .000000000000000000001% chance :mad:


I just had a dumb n dumber flashback lol "more like 1 in a million".... "so you're tellin me theres a chance.... YEAH!" lmao

[ILLUSIVE]

"ILLUSIVE try quoting things in one post there's enough room you know."

^---I wouldn't recommend attempting to pretend you have the authority to tell me what to do, although you are (certainly) welcome to PRETEND to be whatever it is that you want...

And second, I will take a look at your additional theories and/or viewpoints a little bit later...

[ILLUSIVE]

"Street Fighter is the more popular choice for many fighting game fans and always will be (excluding Tekken im talking about MK/SF) as far as marketing and everything goes street fighter has the win, so you can stop multi quoting me in so many posts just to get your post list up! LOL"

Street Fighter is, indeed, the favorite fighting game for many people among the various other fighting games in that particular genre... No one is saying that there ISN'T a wide fan-base for the Street Fighter games because there is...

The point I've made, which you seem to be having some comprehension issues with, is that there are other fighting game franchises that have the same level of fan-base (or better) than Street Fighter --- and one of those franchises (based on the sales data listed in this topic) would be Mortal Kombat...

[ILLUSIVE]

"You can also stop being a compete [blank] and claiming you know everything and putting peoples "opinions" down your not as smart as you think, everyone is smart as [blank] when they have the world of information at their finger tips, basically nobody likes a smart [blank] who tries to diminish peoples opinions!"

And I thank you for listing your additional theory and personal belief system... I can also tell that you seem to be having some issues with making an intellectual and ON-TOPIC point without the need to repeatedly use curse language...

But regardless of that, as well as the (apparent) idea of you feeling internal threatened by my intelligence (for whatever reason?), the truth of the matter is that I've never claimed that I was some wizard of intellgience (or anything like that) --- and all I did was challenge the accuracy of another posters comment...

[rezzurekted]

the need to repeatedly use curse language...

But regardless of that, as well as the (apparent) idea of you feeling internal threatened by my intelligence (for whatever reason?), the truth of the matter is that I've never claimed that I was some wizard of intellgience (or anything like that) --- and all I did was challenge the accuracy of another posters comment...

Awww am i offending you? would you like a cuddle? LOL

Threatened by your intelligence? dont talk wet, i simply stated that anyone can be intelligent with the world of knowledge at their finger tips so you can come down off the high horse before you fall off and hurt yourself.

As for you multi posts, don't you think it would be a bit better if you just quoted everything in one post saves the needless......well "spamming" but hell what ever works for you, just an idea.

But yeah anyways this all started because i called you a loser (jokingly by the way) for seeming to really like MK vs DC, your reasons are your own and if you wish to try your very best to put me down (which as you can tell isn't working, i have an answer for everything being right/wrong lol)
then we can continue as your keeping me entertained lol, Your serve squire :)

[Ainokeatoo]

Alright alright alright, try to keep it clean guys don't start flaming each other.

[rezzurekted]

Alright alright alright, try to keep it clean guys don't start flaming each other.

You know me matey this is civil :) plus ive gone out of my way to explain that this is just a laugh to me, don't worry I wont get out off hand.

[ILLUSIVE]

"Awww am i offending you? would you like a cuddle? LOL"

You haven't offended virtually anybody in this topic, as your primary concern ITT has been demonstrating your inability to formulate an intelligent and on-topic argument...

[ILLUSIVE]

"Threatened by your intelligence? dont talk wet, i simply stated that anyone can be intelligent with the world of knowledge at their finger tips so you can come down off the high horse before you fall off and hurt yourself."

Yourself being threatened by my personal intelligence has absolutel NOTHING to do with myself being on any sort of 'high horse' --- neither from a literal nor figurative standpoint...

[ILLUSIVE]

"But yeah anyways this all started because i called you a loser (jokingly by the way) for seeming to really like MK vs DC,"

"This" all started from you, essentially, trolling... Yes, that is correct...

[Variation-XBA]

Enough is enough, this isn't even remotely on topic anymore.