OXM Article on failure of faceplates

[tacohead]

http://www.oxm.co.uk/article.php?id=24558

[SpaceGhost2K]

I said a lot of the same stuff in OXM November 2008. Except I blamed them for their own failure. People wanted their faceplates to be personal - a game they liked or their gamertag or something or something to identify it with themselves. Instead we got these generic images that weren't even particularly cool, and they wanted twenty bucks for them. Had they started off with Kameo and Perfect Dark and PGR3 where the public could actually get them, things might have been different.

[Variation-XBA]

Exactly Spacey. The idea was great, the execution was terrible.

[SpaceGhost2K]

If you go to the link, you can see my comments there with the others. Nothing really big.

**EDIT** Actually, wait. I didn't see the original article at OXM. I saw the one at kotaku.

[Symmetric-XBA]

Unf. I don't see xbox 360 faceplates as valuable as before. Sure there are limited plates, but with the slim 360 and the "next gen" version of the xbox a few years out, I don't see a rising value to something that can't be used in the future. Maybe i'm completely off the mark here, but once the 360 we know today becomes obsolete, then whats the point? Do you think that the value will actually rise in these limited faceplates once consumers can no longer use them? Thats ultimately the point of a faceplate, to cover the front of your xbox, and when you can no longer use them, then whats the point?? I find myself asking these questions about the consoles too. Granted the limited consoles you can do more with than just a faceplate, however, I'd hate to be dropping thousands of dollars all for something that not only will decrease in value, but become obsolete and pointless.

[hellonearth159]

I think the value of faceplates will continue to decline because the pool of collectors continues to decline. Those of us that monitor eBay have seen very rare plates that used to go for several hundred dollars now go for well under a hundred. The pool of people interested in this hobby was always limited and with the loss of mainstream support from Microsoft, interest has withered away. If you are collecting faceplates as an investment, I'm afraid you will not be happy to hear this. On the other hand, if you treat faceplates as an art form and as another way to enjoy your favorite games, then you can find some beautiful plates at very reasonable prices right now.
For my part, I hope to still see the occasional "Official" faceplate as part of a game promotion. I think the cost to publishers is on par to most other promotional items.

[Ainokeatoo]

Even though I have no real interest in faceplates I think the opposite. Some faceplates you can't get anywhere, and even though they're practically unusable now with the new design, I don't think they're useless. If anything ten maybe twenty years down the line when we're at Xbox 2012 (Lulz) they'll be worthy of gaming historical reference lol. Or if Xbox fails some time down the road, it would be like the collectible Sega things. Eventually it will have some sort of significance. Be it hauntings of the past, or the "What was" of a successful console.

[Symmetric-XBA]

I think the value of faceplates will continue to decline because the pool of collectors continues to decline. Those of us that monitor eBay have seen very rare plates that used to go for several hundred dollars now go for well under a hundred. The pool of people interested in this hobby was always limited and with the loss of mainstream support from Microsoft, interest has withered away. If you are collecting faceplates as an investment, I'm afraid you will not be happy to hear this. On the other hand, if you treat faceplates as an art form and as another way to enjoy your favorite games, then you can find some beautiful plates at very reasonable prices right now.
For my part, I hope to still see the occasional "Official" faceplate as part of a game promotion. I think the cost to publishers is on par to most other promotional items.

I can see your point of view on this issue and for what you say, it does make some sense. However, the big part in all of this, is when do you turn away from the faceplates and let it fade into the past as you focus on something new going forward? Honestly, in 10 years, how many ppl are going to be showing interest in some obscure faceplate to promote a game that is obsolete, for a console that is no longer being used? When is the time to consider the future, and not try to sustain a failing product?

I used to be bitten by the collecting bug, but now, hell I might just give my plates away.

[hellonearth159]

I can see your point of view on this issue and for what you say, it does make some sense. However, the big part in all of this, is when do you turn away from the faceplates and let it fade into the past as you focus on something new going forward? Honestly, in 10 years, how many ppl are going to be showing interest in some obscure faceplate to promote a game that is obsolete, for a console that is no longer being used? When is the time to consider the future, and not try to sustain a failing product?

I used to be bitten by the collecting bug, but now, hell I might just give my plates away.

Drop me a line before you give anything away!

[Symmetric-XBA]

will do man, I don't think I have anything valuable (maybe it was at one time, but not anymore). I'll look through and see what I can find.

[SpaceGhost2K]

Things come and go so I wouldn't be quite so trigger happy to drop the collection. I've heard of NES Cartridges that went for thousands of dollars and they're 25 years old. All it takes is a couple of new collectors in the hobby with money to decide they both want it, and the fight is on.

Not saying it'll happen like that for sure, but these things aren't like Star Wars figures where there are 10 thousand people out there with figures in mint packages in boxes in their attic. The reason things are going cheap right now is that the ten of us or so who spend crazy money on these things already have them in our collections. But what happens if five more people decide to start collecting them, five or ten years from now?

Keep in mind too how many collectibles get destroyed through use. I know that I had a Vinyl Caped Jawa when I was a kid that got lost in a sand pile and ended up as concrete in someone's headstone on their grave. True story. That's a $3,000 figure if I still had it. How many priceless PEZ dispensers went into the trash? How many super rare Hot Wheels were beaten to death by kids who played with them endlessly?

People are throwing faceplates away. Some of them on the consoles that died. The plates are breaking from being used, and then are just tossed with USB doors and mem card doors and power buttons missing or broken. The number of these that exist isn't going to get bigger. It's only going to get smaller. It's hard to guess what interest will be, but it's not even a guess as to what will happen with the number in existence.

I know someone, just today, who is getting rid of a faceplate that I've wanted since the day I saw it. It was a prototype that was produced along with a number of plates with different images, and this plate was rejected. There were three of them made. I have no idea who has the other two or if they still exist. It is listed on my wishlist as "the plate I can't mention." As soon as it shows up, I'll be able to mention it.

I'm giddy.

[Symmetric-XBA]

Things come and go so I wouldn't be quite so trigger happy to drop the collection. I've heard of NES Cartridges that went for thousands of dollars and they're 25 years old. All it takes is a couple of new collectors in the hobby with money to decide they both want it, and the fight is on.

Not saying it'll happen like that for sure, but these things aren't like Star Wars figures where there are 10 thousand people out there with figures in mint packages in boxes in their attic. The reason things are going cheap right now is that the ten of us or so who spend crazy money on these things already have them in our collections. But what happens if five more people decide to start collecting them, five or ten years from now?

Keep in mind too how many collectibles get destroyed through use. I know that I had a Vinyl Caped Jawa when I was a kid that got lost in a sand pile and ended up as concrete in someone's headstone on their grave. True story. That's a $3,000 figure if I still had it. How many priceless PEZ dispensers went into the trash? How many super rare Hot Wheels were beaten to death by kids who played with them endlessly?

People are throwing faceplates away. Some of them on the consoles that died. The plates are breaking from being used, and then are just tossed with USB doors and mem card doors and power buttons missing or broken. The number of these that exist isn't going to get bigger. It's only going to get smaller. It's hard to guess what interest will be, but it's not even a guess as to what will happen with the number in existence.

I know someone, just today, who is getting rid of a faceplate that I've wanted since the day I saw it. It was a prototype that was produced along with a number of plates with different images, and this plate was rejected. There were three of them made. I have no idea who has the other two or if they still exist. It is listed on my wishlist as "the plate I can't mention." As soon as it shows up, I'll be able to mention it.

I'm giddy.

I understand the rarity point you are trying to make, however man you have to admit that Star Wars figures fetch a much bigger price because of the impact that Star Wars had around the world. In no way shape or form has the Xbox even come close to hitting the iconic levels that Star Wars holds. I've highlighted parts of your reply because if you minus out the story, the majority of your response is speculation and a lot of "what if's". It's hard to convince someone to invest in a failing product, esp. when the product itself will be useless down the road and not gain value. Thats the big key you mentioned at the end of your post. There will always be a MASSIVE market for Star Wars merchandise, esp. rare carded vintage figures, however, the same can't be said for faceplates. Too many unknown variables, too many unanswered questions, too many negatives against it. If ppl wanted to create their own, then quite honestly thats the way it should go, that way ppl get what they want. Imagine you drop 30k or more in collecting faceplates, then down the road you come to the realization that this faceplate collection now is almost worthless. I'm sorry but having an investment not make a return is not something that most ppl will be interested in. I don't know too many ppl that would be happy investing thousands of dollars knowing that their investment will never show a profitable return. If you're that kind of person though I'm sure a lot of us would appreciate a monetary donation lol. I guess I just don't get it. I'll have to dig through the plates and see what I've still got left.

[SpaceGhost2K]

Go here:

http://forums.firingsquad.com/t5/Games-Discussion-Community/The-Rarest-amp-Most-Expensive-NES-Games-Ever-20-000-for/m-p/307213

And read this here:


Cheetahman II: $400 - $503
Rarity = 8
Thinking back to the early 1990s, you can probably easily recall how incredibly popular the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were (at least in the US). The Cheetahman franchise was a relatively bizzare attempt to capitalize on the idea of humanoid animal action heroes. (I guess those at Active Enterprises thought it sounded like a good idea). In addition to the unlicensed Nintendo games, the publisher actually had high hopes of cashing in with action figures, t-shirts, a cartoon TV show before the word spread of the the series’ lack of quality.Despite the franchise’s lackluster performance a second installment of Cheetahmen was completed, although not officially released. Eventually, but 1997 all of the reported 1,500 copies of the game left their warehouse and were sold to the public. However, once people actually played the game, they realized there was more to its cancellation than it’s namesake. To this day it is known as one of the most unplayable games of all time.Check for Cheetahmen II on eBay

What's the reason for the high price on this? It's hardly Star Wars. There are only 1,500. It's not a known property. It's 15 years old. It is expensive because of the kind of collector called a "completionist." He or she is the person with the disposable income required to amass a large collection and to go after the most obscure pieces. It's expensive BECAUSE the game sucked, which means most of them were thrown away, which means there are a LOT fewer of them around, which means the completionists have to fight harder and spend more money to secure one. It's the same reason why I regret using those "common" faceplates three years ago to paint over for customs when I could be selling them for ten times what I paid for them (The Outfit, Full Auto, Saints Row - all $4 or less).

Yeah, it's stupid to sit on your faceplate of "The Outfit", thinking it might be Cheetahmen II someday.

You're right. The majority of my response is speculation. Know why? Because 1) It hasn't happened yet and since I'm not psychic, I have to speculate. 2) Faceplates are unique in that they're the first video game accessory that is collectible because of branding. There's nothing else to compare them to.

People have console collections and game collections. And even though there are some people with controller collections and maybe even memory card collections for all I know, they weren't created with the idea of them being collectibles. They're just parts of the system. Faceplates were designed to corporately branded and distributed for promotional purposes. Woody's and Hot Rods will never be worth anything. They're like Death of Superman comics or Shaq rookie cards. There's a f'n billion of them out there. But Pink Bubbles has a story. War of the Worlds has rarity. These are things that make them attractive to collectors who collect for money and who collect just because that's what they do - they collect things.

And I think you misunderstood the jist of my post, anyway. I never said you SHOULD invest in them, that it was a reasonable investment, or that it was a likely moneymaker. Only that I can see how it might be.

I got a code from PAX for the League of Legends game. At the end of PAX 2009, they had mountains of swag bags left. I went home with four of them. In 2010, I went home with one.

When I got home from PAX this year, I saw on the forums that people were offering some pretty good money for these codes, so I put a Jax from 2010 (the only one I had) along with a Twisted Fate from 2009 (leaving me with three left). I got $70 for the two of them together. Haven't thought about it since then.

A week ago or so, I was going through some expo stuff and saw the other three Twisted Fate cards. I looked online - holy ****, a guy just got $275 for ONE code! I listed the three codes over three days and got $150, $150 and $125 within hours of listing them. Three pieces of paper given to me at an expo made my car payment. And people think I'm nuts for spending 80 MS points on an avatar shirt. What's the likely return-on-investment for your Deadmau5 Avatar head? $0. You knew that when you did it, but you still did it. Why? Because. Because it gave you a momentary feeling of joy. Not because you were going to get 800 MS points for it someday.

What will the Twisted Fate cards sell for next year? Speculation. I can guess that once League of Legends is no longer played, they won't be worth jack. BUT... on the other hand - if all 20,000 of them were used and destroyed, simply having a card in good shape, + someone with fond memories of playing the game = a ****load of cash. Millions of players and only 20K codes - it's somewhere between Star Wars and Cheetahman II, wouldn't you say? (I'm inclined to think Xbox 360 faceplates are a lot closer to Cheetahman II than Star Wars.)

All I'm saying is, if you already bought the plate and you're trying to sell it right now, you probably will not get what you put into it. So, do you sell it fnow and get whatever you can, or do you hang onto it with the large possibility its value will go down, but the SLIM possibility that it could go up, and the even SLIMMER possibility that it could go WAY up?

The hard part is done. You've got the plate.

In my case, I have a collection that I value at $18,000. It's worth that because of its size (400+pieces) and the rarity of a number of pieces (limited official pieces, signed custom pieces, signed official pieces, elaborate custom pieces, etc.) If I cherry-picked ten of the most valuable plates out of my collection and sold them, I might get half of what I spent on them. But I've just devastated my collection like picking the diamonds out of an engagement ring. It's not JUST the quantity and quality, it's the sum of the two, and the value added because of the extraordinary effort involved in assembling such a collection. Ask 159 or Pierre or Taco how hard it was to build the collections they have. There's quite a bit more to it than just waiting for the computer to beep and tell you there's something for you to buy, and then hitting the "buy" button. If someone decides they want to collect these things, and they want a collection like a few of us have, and the only place they can get those plates if from us, they better be prepared to pay handsomely for them.

[SpaceGhost2K]

Wall of text, I know.

Here's some of the things I've collected:

Star Wars figures. I got Vader in Feb 1998 for $1.99 and it took me until 1986, but I managed to put together a collection of every figure that had been released to the mass market. The last five I actually had to contact Kenner and they sold them to me and shipped them from the warehouse because no retailers were carrying them anymore. I bought five figures for four dollars each, and got the Luke Stormtrooper (x2 I opened one), the last Ewok, and two other figures I forget that go for a lot of money now because very few of them ever made it to a store. I sold the whole lot around 2002 for about $1500. That was more than the retail value of the collection, but mostly because of a small number of figures that were worth a lot.

I only decided to sell them because I needed the money, and because they had started releasing new figures again in 1995. That collection was getting big, fast, so I decided to part with the vintage collection. Now instead of the 150 vintage figures I had, I have 1,200 figures, and I'd consider myself lucky if I could get $1,500 for ALL of those together. Plus I have ships coming out my f'n ears.

Videos and CDs: I worked for a music and video distributor for 5 1/2 years and had a crazy amount of CDs and movies. I was a buyer on the video side, then the music side. I got them free every week from the vendors, (by the 30 ct box sometimes for CDs). For two years, I paid for my gas to and from work clear across town by taking CDs to the local used store and selling them for gas money. As for movies - anyone want some VHS tapes? I've thrown enough of them away to insulate a house.

Star Trek figures. When SW figures were between the vintage and new eras, Star Trek figures were the only game in town. I have a damn-near complete collection of about 175 figures that aren't worth even a dollar a piece anymore.

Gashapon/Trading Figures. Japanese figures. Usually cute or sexy girls. I won six DOAX figures in a website contest and had no idea there was such a thing. Now I've got over 400. I know someone in LA who will buy the collection, but then my gameroom would be a lot less fun to look at.

Video Games. Not that crazy, actually. Maybe 50 Xbox 360 games, some mroe at my kids' house, less than 250 between Xbox, 360, Gamecube, PS1, and PS2.

Dala Horses. An icon of Sweden, but I have a Greek one, a Japanese one, a Brazillian version. Maybe ten altogether.

Faceplates. You know.

Game shirts. Not a collection as much as a wardrobe. :) I've dumped a lot of them.

Oh, and other figures. I have like four boxes of assorted figures. DC, Marvel, anime, tv show. I have a Mork from Ork, three original TRON figures, a Twiki from Buck Rogers, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Sigmund the Sea Monster, Bob and Doug McKenzie, Space Ghost, and on and on.

Maybe they were different hobbies. Maybe they were different variations of the same hobby. Maybe its a laser-focused version of hoarding. :) But I never did any of that stuff from the point of view of "return on investment." I did it for fun.

Oh, and I totally forgot about my collection of forums posts, that I keep scattered all over the internet. Add that to the addictions that haven't shown a return on investment, either.

[Symmetric-XBA]

Wall of text, I know.

Here's some of the things I've collected:

Star Wars figures. I got Vader in Feb 1998 for $1.99 and it took me until 1986, but I managed to put together a collection of every figure that had been released to the mass market. The last five I actually had to contact Kenner and they sold them to me and shipped them from the warehouse because no retailers were carrying them anymore. I bought five figures for four dollars each, and got the Luke Stormtrooper (x2 I opened one), the last Ewok, and two other figures I forget that go for a lot of money now because very few of them ever made it to a store. I sold the whole lot around 2002 for about $1500. That was more than the retail value of the collection, but mostly because of a small number of figures that were worth a lot.

I only decided to sell them because I needed the money, and because they had started releasing new figures again in 1995. That collection was getting big, fast, so I decided to part with the vintage collection. Now instead of the 150 vintage figures I had, I have 1,200 figures, and I'd consider myself lucky if I could get $1,500 for ALL of those together. Plus I have ships coming out my f'n ears.

Videos and CDs: I worked for a music and video distributor for 5 1/2 years and had a crazy amount of CDs and movies. I was a buyer on the video side, then the music side. I got them free every week from the vendors, (by the 30 ct box sometimes for CDs). For two years, I paid for my gas to and from work clear across town by taking CDs to the local used store and selling them for gas money. As for movies - anyone want some VHS tapes? I've thrown enough of them away to insulate a house.

Star Trek figures. When SW figures were between the vintage and new eras, Star Trek figures were the only game in town. I have a damn-near complete collection of about 175 figures that aren't worth even a dollar a piece anymore.

Gashapon/Trading Figures. Japanese figures. Usually cute or sexy girls. I won six DOAX figures in a website contest and had no idea there was such a thing. Now I've got over 400. I know someone in LA who will buy the collection, but then my gameroom would be a lot less fun to look at.

Video Games. Not that crazy, actually. Maybe 50 Xbox 360 games, some mroe at my kids' house, less than 250 between Xbox, 360, Gamecube, PS1, and PS2.

Dala Horses. An icon of Sweden, but I have a Greek one, a Japanese one, a Brazillian version. Maybe ten altogether.

Faceplates. You know.

Game shirts. Not a collection as much as a wardrobe. :) I've dumped a lot of them.

Oh, and other figures. I have like four boxes of assorted figures. DC, Marvel, anime, tv show. I have a Mork from Ork, three original TRON figures, a Twiki from Buck Rogers, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Sigmund the Sea Monster, Bob and Doug McKenzie, Space Ghost, and on and on.

Maybe they were different hobbies. Maybe they were different variations of the same hobby. Maybe its a laser-focused version of hoarding. :) But I never did any of that stuff from the point of view of "return on investment." I did it for fun.

Oh, and I totally forgot about my collection of forums posts, that I keep scattered all over the internet. Add that to the addictions that haven't shown a return on investment, either.

goin back in time to start off the post? lol. nice. After reading your mini novel lol I can see your points, however in this post you talk about failed investments. Would you like to have the money back from the investments that tanked on you? I can't speak for you, but I'm almost positive you would, as would anyone. As far as my Deadmau5 avatar head, you're right I didn't buy it for an investment, however digital content for your avatar is not a tangible product like faceplates, figures, and everything you talked about so you can't really compare the two considering you have one digital product that you cant touch, hold, or use and on the other side of the coin you have tangible products that you can hold in your hand, play with, listen to, etc.

back when I was a young'in and my father was still alive, his friend in kenner hooked him up with a mammoth load of vintage star wars products which he in turn gave to me, and because of that I could afford a nice college education to Oxford if I tried to cash in and sell my vintage collection and my Star Wars prototypes from kenner. My father also helped me put together a huge collection of vintage he-man and g.i. joe figures. As far as rare games go, I am an avid collector, but not because of their limited status of ###/150, but because I know that my inital investment WILL turn a profit. This is where I think our points of view break off as I look at items that can return a profit.

In the end this boils down to the economic principle of supply vs. demand. if the demand for these faceplates are high, and there are not a lot of these to go around, then the price goes up, however, when ppl determine that they are just plastic plates that have the sole function of just sitting on an xbox (last time I checked you can't really play with a faceplate, unlike rare games, toys, etc.), then the demand will be going down and so will the prices, and this starts the downfall of the faceplate market. Faceplates are def. a specialty market, and why? Because not many ppl out there are collecting them, so like you originally posted about how these 10 or so collectors that stopped collecting, that shows that faceplates are a "specialty market" and not "mass market". Items such as your vintage star wars figures, and rare games offer the consumer more dimensions of oppertunity other than just sitting there looking at them, unlike faceplates. When the dust settles and you take a non-biased look at the faceplate market and the decline in demand, you will see that the market for faceplates is very small to begin with, and in the end will not provide a sound fiscal investment.

Let's say you invest 2,000 on faceplates, what else could you do with 2,000? Could you make months of bill payments? Yes. Could you purchase items that could net you a profit? Yes. Could you throw it out a window on the highway? Yes. The point I'm trying to make here is simple. If you plan on spending $500 for a faceplate that will become worthless as the years march on, then you are essentially throwing your money away. Granted sellers don't mind b/c the cash goes to them, but now you've spent $500 on a one dimensional specialty item that will not return your investment, let alone make you a profit.

In today's economy if you can afford to just burn money, then congrats you are at a place in your life where you can afford to just p*** money away. lol you should talk to Kam b/c I talked his ear off about investments. You always have to think long term before you start dumping your hard earned cash into a market that may not make it.

[hellonearth159]

Isn't the world ending in two years? Why worry about long term!

[Symmetric-XBA]

Isn't the world ending in two years? Why worry about long term!

oh snap, I forgot about that lol nevermind then! i'm goin to vegas! lol.

[SpaceGhost2K]

You missed the point completely. They were never investments. They were my hobby, my source of joy. "Things" are always a poor investment if you're looking for a larger return later. Unless you're talking about gold, real estate or something like that. It is possible to invest in those and enjoy them as well, but most things that are enjoyed have to be considered "consumables." As they are enjoyed, their value goes down. Occasionally you'll luck out and be able to recoup, but you can't PLAN on that.

And I'm not the only one here. You went to PAX. If that's not "pissing money away" what is? Airfare and hotel and food and cabs so you could play games, talk to people, and then go home so you can tell people all about it. Might as well take a grand and throw it in the trash because you'll never recoup that money.

[hellonearth159]

In the immortal words of Steve Buscemi in the movie Ghost World


Enid & Seymour enter his inner sanctum, beverage containers
in hand -- nicely-displayed old collectibles cover just about
every inch of wall space.


ENID Wow! This is like my dream room!
Are these all records!


SEYMOUR I have about fifteen hundred 78s at
this point. I've tried to pare down
my collection to the essential...


ENID God, look at this poster! I can't
believe this room! You're the luckiest
guy in the world! I'd kill to have
stuff like this!


SEYMOUR Please... go ahead and kill me!
This stuff doesn't make you happy,
believe me.


ENID Oh, come on! What are you talking
about?


SEYMOUR You think it's healthy to obsessively
collect things? You can't connect
with other people so you fill your
life with stuff... I'm just like
all the rest of these pathetic
collector losers.

Enid writes her name in the dust.


ENID No you're not! You're a cool guy,

For some reason, I could always relate to this scene.

[angeto]

I think video game collectibles Will continuie to rise in price .

[gh0st_r1der]

I would side with Space on this thread.

They were my hobby, my source of joy.
Exactly, and to this point I can say people should approach investing with a passion of a hobby first and money making second

"Things" are always a poor investment if you're looking for a larger return later.
This should be the quote of the year ! (With permission of Space I would like to use it in conversations and I will credit him for it.)
With that quote you can explain the great fall of the american dream ... to own a home .... because all smart asses were saying that owning a home is an investment in the future ... please smack the next one saying it

[Symmetric-XBA]

"Things" are always a poor investment if you're looking for a larger return later.

This statement is complete lunacy unless you specifically name what the "thing" is. Example: faceplates? no the vast majority will not turn a profit in the long run, and you will not get a large return in the future. gold? yes you will get a larger return later.

Homes? It's called equity and yes it does provide larger returns in the future. The equity can be used to allow you oppertunities that may not have opened up to you because you didn't have any. As far as the general return of a house goes, you get a vast majority of your return, not because of the house, but because of the land and location. Remember what Lex Luthor said about land? "It's the one thing they don't make anymore of".

Bottom line, if you enjoy faceplates, go for it, but don't be shaking your head when you realize that the money you spent on that could have gone in other areas, and now you have none. If you're looking to turn a profit off your investments constantly, and make your money work for you, don't invest in a dying off piece of plastic, put that $ into things that will make you more $, then you will be in a comfortable situation to go ape $hit crazy with faceplates.

[Symmetric-XBA]

You missed the point completely. They were never investments. They were my hobby, my source of joy. "Things" are always a poor investment if you're looking for a larger return later. Unless you're talking about gold, real estate or something like that. It is possible to invest in those and enjoy them as well, but most things that are enjoyed have to be considered "consumables." As they are enjoyed, their value goes down. Occasionally you'll luck out and be able to recoup, but you can't PLAN on that.

And I'm not the only one here. You went to PAX. If that's not "pissing money away" what is? Airfare and hotel and food and cabs so you could play games, talk to people, and then go home so you can tell people all about it. Might as well take a grand and throw it in the trash because you'll never recoup that money.

This whole part of your statment would be nice, if it were true. I didn't go to PAX, so no I didn't "piss money away". Maybe next time double check before you start making accusations about what someone did or did not do and go off on a story painting the wrong picture. Get your facts straight.

I did go to E3 as a rep. of XBA, and the reason I spent that money is because it granted me an oppertunity to see a side of the industry that I've always wanted to see. The reason as well that I went was b/c I could afford it, and it wouldn't break the bank in any way. Seriously Space man, you know from past personal experiences that I've helped you through, so please in the future before you start making claims without knowing the truth, just ask first.

[gh0st_r1der]

You did really missed the point

[SpaceGhost2K]

Re: Lex Luthor. They also don't make any more gold, or diamonds, or silver, or a lot of things. Silver, for example, was a good investment. Until people stopped using film for cameras, the #1 consumer of silver, and the price dropped to nothing.

You can invest in precious metals, or land. They don't generally go bad. Houses were thought to be good investments except for three things.

1) Your neighbor can build a house better than yours, meaning if you want to sells yours you'll sell it at a loss. Home builders can build hillsides and valleys full of homes and every one of them is going to compete with yours.

2) Buildings go bad. While their value goes up, their condition goes down and requires a constant reinvestment to maintain its value.

3) Economies go bad and your house may no longer demand the price you paid for it, and may never again as far as you know.

If you want to invest, invest in a company that is going to produce a product in the short term that will bring in money and provide you a return on your investment. Invest in your kids' education so that they will be able to be self-sufficient as adults and take care of you when you're unable to take care of yourself. Invest in your own improvement, through education and training. Invest in "things" only if those things can be used as tools to help you improve your station in life. Don't buy a new car because it's cool. Buy a new car because you need reliable transportation to work or because your family size has increased or because of safety.

I consider my faceplates a smart investment because they did provide a positive return on the investment. They provided me joy that I didn't have. the cost of that joy was the cost of the faceplates. I bought, sold, traded, custom made, made a name for myself, made some great friends, had articles published, been featured on major websites, started my own website, started and moderated forums, met some incredible people like Cliff Bleszinski, Peter Moore, Peter Molyneux, Tobonobu Itagaki, Hironobu Sakaguchi, Seth Killian, Major Nelson, Alex Kipman, Aaron Greenberg, Dan Paladin and countless others, compiled the definitive database for collectors for years to come. I've affected the industry by promoting faceplates. Do you know that Aksys profits as much as doubled on the Deathsmiles game because they put a faceplate in there that I helped them make happen?

If I took the whole collection and threw it in the garbage, it will would have been money well spent because none of that stuff would have happened without them. So what do I care if I get $5K or $10K or $20K for it somewhere down the road?

Money you spend on PAX or a big screen TV or beer isn't money wasted. It's money that has a positive return on its investment. That return just isn't a financial return. Going to PAX is fun, watching TV is cheaper than countless trips to a movie theater. Beer helps you forget the money you spent going to PAX. :)

I want to discuss one thing you said, and then I think I've made my point:


Me:"Things" are always a poor investment if you're looking for a larger return later.

This statement is complete lunacy unless you specifically name what the "thing" is. Example: faceplates? no the vast majority will not turn a profit in the long run, and you will not get a large return in the future. gold? yes you will get a larger return later.

I lol at your gold. The rule of thumb is this: One oz. of gold is usually the value of one really nice suit. If you bought an ounce of gold in the 70's for $100 and it's worth $1,000 now, did you really get a 1000% return on your investment if a suit in the 70's cost $100 and a suit now costs $1,000? No, you didn't. All you did was tie up the value of that gold for forty years. The relative value of gold depends on the relative value of the dollar, and the relative value of foreign currency. 90% of what I'm selling on eBay right now is going to foreign bidders, ya know why? Because when I sell it for $50, they're getting it for like $30 because the dollar is in the toilet. $30 of their dollars is worth $50 of my dollars. It seems like I'm doing well, btu I'm not. They're the ones making the killing.

Gold is really, really high right now. That's why we're looking around for gold to sell. Not buy. You think gold always goes up, you should buy a whole bunch of gold now and come back in a year and tell me how you did. If it was that easy, the whole world would be rich, right?

[SpaceGhost2K]

Yeah, I forgot, it was E3 not PAX. Not the point on which to discard the discussion.

The point remains, you went for fun. You spent money, and got fun as a return on your investment. It was a poor choice of investment if the goal was a financial return, but since it was some other kind of return, it was reasonable, if the cost = the fun. If the cost > the fun, then it wasn't. That's my problem with going to Disneyland. Cost > fun. FOR ME. If I was taking a kid, for the kid it's cost < fun because his cost is $0. It's all fun. Now if MY cost <= HIS fun, we go. If MY cost > HIS fun, we don't.

I've gone to every E3 since 2002 and every one I have looked at as a potential return on investment. I'm going to meet someone, make a network, a connection, get a heads up on a job somewhere, get hired, and all of those E3's will have paid for themselves. Eight years, that hasn't happened yet. Lot of stuff happened, and there are numerous returns that I got that make it money well spent, but those returns have not been financial ones. So from a financial sense, you, and I, pissed that money away.

[Symmetric-XBA]

I lol at your gold. The rule of thumb is this: One oz. of gold is usually the value of one really nice suit. Gold is really, really high right now. That's why we're looking around for gold to sell. Not buy. You think gold always goes up, you should buy a whole bunch of gold now and come back in a year and tell me how you did. If it was that easy, the whole world would be rich, right?

First off Space, I'm the last person you want to debate financial economic investments of gold lol. I am invested in gold. Your "rule of thumb" is laughable logic from someone who is uneducated in gold. You laugh at my gold? Well that gold helped turn a dividend check to help you pay your car payment. The price of gold does fluctuate daily and it's constantly going up and down, but by fractions of a cent sometimes. Gold is something that has risen over %400 of value in the past decade, so naturally logic would say "BUY GOLD" instead of "looking for gold to sell". Before you start making smart a$$ comments about my financial investments. I can talk to you now if you want about it, I've been invested for over a year. It's phenominal when you use it as a hedge against your other investments, not to mention the falling price of the US dollar. Trust man, you want to talk about investments, I'll bring it, but yes I do invest in gold, you should try it sometime. Buy gold, don't sell it.

[SpaceGhost2K]

This wasn't intended to be a financial discussion and I like you and you have helped me out of binds so I'm not going to go at it or anything. I'm content to be done.

[Symmetric-XBA]

This wasn't intended to be a financial discussion and I like you and you have helped me out of binds so I'm not going to go at it or anything. I'm content to be done.

as am I good sir! :cheers:

[Ricepuppet]

Interesting thread, thought it would be a catfight in the end.

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/95E6E3C0-4DC1-4006-93E1-41F0D1205D87/PE-346-0180.jpg

[Variation-XBA]

Can I lock this yet then? :p

[SpaceGhost2K]

If we're done discussing it, is it necessary to lock it? It'll go away if people quit posting. :D