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View Full Version : making Back ups copies



BIG_BUTTER
03-21-2002, 12:21 PM
Here in OH CANADA games are so expensive. are we able to make back up copies or do we go pay another $90.00 for the same game .

I dont agree with burning games to steal them. i am a programmer and i would 'nt want any one stealing my stuff.

when i get my xbox i would like to make back up copies.

Spaztic
03-21-2002, 12:28 PM
no, each game has a region code and then each region code has a different code to hack though before the raw data can be extracted, the only game hackers have gotten though is doa3 and they are still having issues with getting the game to boot. So it dosn't look like it will be possible for awile.....sorry! MS made sure that hacking dosn't happen!

Toder
03-21-2002, 12:29 PM
Even if you could do that there is still no reasonable excuse for making copies of games. If you are that irresponceple of a person and will leave your games out to were they will get ruined then you deserve to have to buy another copy of the game.

Hugh_Jass
03-21-2002, 12:34 PM
Hmmm...I wonder if Microsoft has a replacement policy if the disc becomes damaged? I know they replaced discs that got scratched in Japan.

AlBoogy
03-21-2002, 12:40 PM
" If you are that irresponceple of a person and will leave your games out to were they will get ruined then you deserve to have to buy another copy of the game."

What if they were stolen? I'm sorry but paying another 50 dollars for a game I already had hurts.

Spaztic
03-21-2002, 01:05 PM
I feel it is cool to make backups, my dog killed one of my ps games! But stealing the game w/o purchasing it is wrong!

BIG_BUTTER
03-21-2002, 01:32 PM
Wow a couple of yas were complaining about being iresponsible.
thats not what the thread was all about.

Disk do get damaged after a long period of time. Yes you can take care of them. But the thing was WHAT IF. read it again.

its a sensible question.when a couple of yas become a adult you will understand.

JUST A QUESTION!!!!!!!!. and i hope none of yas happen to have a damage game . because iresponsibility dosent apply to this.

:mad: :mad: hahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Batman2372
03-21-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by AlBoogy
What if they were stolen? I'm sorry but paying another 50 dollars for a game I already had hurts.

So if your CAR gets stolen, are you going to go back to the dealership and say, "Man, it really hurts that my $25,000 car was taken. Give me another one please."

Sorry, it's YOUR responsibility, regardless of whether or not it was your fault.

Batman2372
03-21-2002, 01:40 PM
Okay, let's get back to the question at hand. Your disc is damaged. That alone will have Microsoft laugh at you.

The only way that you could get reimbursement for a damaged disc is if a Microsoft component (in this case, the Xbox itself) caused the damage.

You dropping it, running scissors over it, losing it, etc is neither the fault nor the problem of Microsoft or the designer. In other words, the responsiblity of it is yours.

LynxFX
03-21-2002, 02:07 PM
Most developers just like software companies will replace your disc if it becomes damaged for a small fee. All it takes is a call to their customer service department.

Or you just take it to Toys 'R Us and say it was a gift, it is damaged and I would like a replacement.


So if your CAR gets stolen, are you going to go back to the dealership and say, "Man, it really hurts that my $25,000 car was taken. Give me another one please."

No you go to your insurance and they will do it for you. Heck same thing if a game is stolen. My renter's insurance covers theft. If it is stolen, I get a claim and get the game again.

Fact of the matter is, if there is a way to backup my games with low cost to me I will most definately do it. Infact I would play with the backups instead of the originals and keep those in perfect order. Accidents happen even to the most anal people out there.

BIG_BUTTER
03-21-2002, 03:12 PM
HEY Lynxfx:

finally someone who understands the question. your reply was totally sensible. thx buddy.

like i said here in canada games are really expensive so a small fee would be great to back up my game .

i have a 16 mon. Boy who is running jumping and DESTROYING stuff.he dosent understand, so a back up would be great.

BIG_BUTTER!!!!!!!!!!!
:cool:

Afro Aura
03-21-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Lynxfx
Most developers just like software companies will replace your disc if it becomes damaged for a small fee. All it takes is a call to their customer service department.

Fact of the matter is, if there is a way to backup my games with low cost to me I will most definately do it. Infact I would play with the backups instead of the originals and keep those in perfect order. Accidents happen even to the most anal people out there.
Hmm little cost
what do you mean, is it go to you computer store buy a DVD disk get home get someone to make a copy of your game and you just play the back-up Hmmm sounds like piracy there man
as with these copies, who knows they may just fall out of you hand and into someone else's hand for a little cost too

I think I like your first paragraph, sounds sensible to me

LynxFX
03-21-2002, 03:38 PM
No problem Butter.

By the way, I probably should add that backups are completely legal as long as you keep to the idea that you are 'backing up' for your own personal use.


U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes. However, the right to make backup copies of computer programs for archival purposes, as embodied in 17 U.S.C. Section 117(2), does not in any way authorize the owner of a copy of a video or computer game to post or download a copy of that game to or from the Internet. Section 117(2) only gives the owner of the copy a right to make an archival copy of the actual copy that he/she legally possesses, not to make a copy of the ROM that someone else legally possesses, nor to post an archival copy of his/her original copy for distribution. Also, there is not an unfettered right to sell "backup" copies. In fact, Section 117 is quite explicit in stating that any archival copy prepared under Section 117(2) can only be transferred to another person if, and only if: A) The original copy is also transferred, and only with the authorization of the copyright owner, and B) The transfer is part of the sale of all rights in the program.


So I want to be able to backup my games, I won't go out and download a backed up game. But of course, you can't have one without the other. The ultimate catch-22.

LynxFX
03-21-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Afro Aura

Hmm little cost
what do you mean, is it go to you computer store buy a DVD disk get home get someone to make a copy of your game and you just play the back-up Hmmm sounds like piracy there man, as with these copies, who know they may just fall out of you hand and into someone else's hand for a little cost too

I think I like your first paragraph, sounds sensible to me

Afro, where did I say that I was coming home, making a copy from someone else and playing it or vice versa? No where. Infact I have copies of every single game I own on the pc as well as software. Especially the expensive stuff like Photoshop and Autocad, Dreamweaver and Flash. Do I just lend those out to people? Hell no. They are mine, I paid for them, and I won't take the chance of one of them getting damaged when there is a perfectly legal way to backup my software. Same is true with games.

BIG_BUTTER
03-21-2002, 03:54 PM
OK everyone read this besides Lynxfx
because he is the only one who gets it.

1. I dont want to steal.
2. i dont want to back up copies so i can SELL (Afro)

bottom line. I dont want to spend 90 dollars and then BY accident my disk gets ruined and then go spend another 90 dollars.

I dont have an XBOX yet! i am getting one in may.
so please dont accuse me of stealing.

p.s. You got to admit WHAT A GREAT TOPIC!!!!!1
hahahahaha :cool:

Afro Aura
03-21-2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Lynxfx


Afro, where did I say that I was coming home, making a copy from someone else and playing it or vice versa? No where. Infact I have copies of every single game I own on the pc as well as software. Especially the expensive stuff like Photoshop and Autocad, Dreamweaver and Flash. Do I just lend those out to people? Hell no. They are mine, I paid for them, and I won't take the chance of one of them getting damaged when there is a perfectly legal way to backup my software. Same is true with games.
Well safe dude and sorry
the reason why I said what I said is that not many people have the same morals as you all they want is a quick cheap way to get hold of game, that they play for about a day and never play it again
which is where the piracy comes into it

Spaztic
03-21-2002, 04:00 PM
dude I hear ya! I am going to back my games up once the xbox games get hacked! I was just trying to give you the down low on the progress!

Afro Aura
03-21-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by bryanhls
dude I hear ya! I am going to back my games up once the xbox games get hacked! I was just trying to give you the down low on the progress!
can I ask you a question then mate
If someone came up to you and let's say Project Ego which was in the shop for $50 and this guy said give me $5 and Project Ego is yours would you by the original or the copy and be honest mate

Batman2372
03-21-2002, 04:10 PM
Okay, I've read sections 106 and 117 of the Code, and I understand that part. What I don't understand is how copy protection comes into play. If it is legal to make backup copies of any software, why was the DMCA written and copy protection become so prevalent?

It would seem to me that copy protection would be completely contrary to Section 117. I haven't read the DMCA yet (I'll work on that this evening), but there's more to this than one line of the Copyright code.

BIG_BUTTER, I'm not saying that you're stealing. I am saying that <i>possibly</i> copying your Xbox games could be breaking US law.

Afro Aura
03-21-2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by BIG_BUTTER
OK everyone read this besides Lynxfx
because he is the only one who gets it.

1. I dont want to steal.
2. i dont want to back up copies so i can SELL (Afro)

bottom line. I dont want to spend 90 dollars and then BY accident my disk gets ruined and then go spend another 90 dollars.

I dont have an XBOX yet! i am getting one in may.
so please dont accuse me of stealing.

OK mate it's just like you as a progammer promoting piracy thats all and as I said not all people have morals

Anyway mate if your not into stealing then cool

BIG_BUTTER
03-21-2002, 04:25 PM
Hey its all good guys . this topic rocks though.
i appreciate everyone taking the time to reply.

XBOX ROX guys and girlz.


keep fit and have fun!

LynxFX
03-21-2002, 04:41 PM
Batman,

You are right. The copyright laws are vague to say the least. That is one problem right now with the MPAA and RIAA and their copy protection schemes. The law says it is legal for the consumer to backup a media product that they have purchased. But it is illegal to crack the code that would allow the person to actually do this? It just doesn't make sense. I have no respect for the RIAA and I'm losing respect fast for the MPAA. I will never buy another CD because of the RIAA's practices. But that is a whole other rant. ;)

The problem is that you can't allow a backup scheme without allowing pirates to exploit it at the same time. At least not with current technology that is affordable to both parties. There will always be piracy no matter how tight of a protection scheme they create. You can't defeat that and companies are naive if they think they can. The problem I have with it is when these companies make the consumer pay for it either by creating products that are no longer within proper specs, ie some dvd's that won't play properly in some players because they put in a new copy protection scheme or music cd's that won't let you rip the songs to your mp3 player or to make your own mix cd. That is flat out unnacceptable.

How about the new protection scheme being made for HDTV. If it passes it means that anyone that has bought an HDTV prior to late 2002 won't be able to watch HDTV when HDTV becomes standard. Nice isn't it? You purchase a product that is supposed to be able to play a standard that was created YEARS ago and they quietly change the standards and make your expensive gear obsolete and nonfunctioning. All of this is to prevent so called pirates who will just crack it anyway.

Ok I've ranted enough, :) I'll stop.

Piracy is bad, but I don't want to pay the price for someone elses bad morals.

Batman2372
03-21-2002, 06:20 PM
Lynxfx,

See, I agree with you COMPLETELY. It does stink. However, regardless of how we feel, it would be ILLEGAL under the DMCA to backup our Xbox games.

I've been an anti-DMCA advocate from the start (DeCSS supporter here), but unfortunately, the law is still the law. And that includes the crappy DMCA.

LynxFX
03-22-2002, 02:07 PM
You are right Batman, I completely forgot about what the DMCA states now. Of course they say it is only illegal to backup media if you have to circumvent a copy protection scheme. I think I read that right?

Still, if the technology arises for me to make backups of my purchased games, then I will use it. I will never buy a game or software product twice.

chili325
03-22-2002, 03:00 PM
Like 5 days after i bought Max Payne it was stolen (Sisters had a party) I liked the game but i dont feel like deelin no 50 bucks for a game I was halfway through. If we could have backups,there would be no problem.

Toder
03-22-2002, 03:17 PM
Okay I know i was a little harshe with my first post here, but what i really want to get across to all of you is that the fact if they are able to crack xbox and make playable disc then i think it will be the downfall of the xbox.

Azazel
03-22-2002, 04:36 PM
I completely agree toder.

Big Butter I think you are a fool!
Do you have a backup of your entire cd collection? Probably not. Even though they could be damaged you dont keep backup copies. (you will probably make one for your buddy though).

If backups get out I think it will ruin the xbox.
I think those of you that cant wait for games to be cracked are either out to steal games or are just nieve.

Gotta go. Im buying my girlfriend a diamond ring. The store is going to give me an extra diamond at no cost.
(Just in case the original gets scratched) Wasnt that nice of them!

LynxFX
03-22-2002, 05:24 PM
Toder,

I don't think that being able to copy games on the Xbox will be the downfall of it. Heck the PSX is the most pirated gaming system ever, and the easiest and it is still going strong.

Even if they do crack the code to allow you to backup a game it isn't going to be cheap at first. DVD-R media is still expensive and the recorders as well. I don't want to have to rip out audio, and cinematics either to make it fit on a CDR.

Until then I'll take good care of my current games like I do the rest of my stuff.

Toder
03-22-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Lynxfx
Toder,

I don't think that being able to copy games on the Xbox will be the downfall of it. Heck the PSX is the most pirated gaming system ever, and the easiest and it is still going strong.

Even if they do crack the code to allow you to backup a game it isn't going to be cheap at first. DVD-R media is still expensive and the recorders as well. I don't want to have to rip out audio, and cinematics either to make it fit on a CDR.

Until then I'll take good care of my current games like I do the rest of my stuff.

Good point, but most people who owned the PSX don't know how to sauder a mod chip. On the other hand look at the Dreamcast no such alterations were required to play hacked games on it and most people can download a games and burn them to a cd. And look where the Dreamcast is now.

Afro Aura
03-22-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Lynxfx
Toder,

I don't think that being able to copy games on the Xbox will be the downfall of it. Heck the PSX is the most pirated gaming system ever, and the easiest and it is still going strong.
You say that it won't bring the XBOX down are you sure that

You said that PSX is the most ripped machine ever the reason for this is that there are about 50millions units out there and people buy the PSX for the ripped games, you could buy a brand new machine for about 40, Sony doesn't give a d@mn about the progammers as long as they can sell another PSX thats money in their pockets

The same situation with the PS2 people buy the silly thing for ripped games there are loads of games out there for PS2 including the PSX games you can play on there and there are over 25 million units out there, again does Sony care NO as long as they can sell the PS2 their happy

It's with the games that a machine survives on not the hardware if the piracy where to pop it's head in most companies may stop making games for the XBOX as it doesn't have the same following as the PSX/PS2 or the units to make games for, they may just continue to make games for the PSX/PS2 as some people do buy games for those machines

it's also the cost of the XBOX which will put people off, if you can buy a PS2 for 150 and the XBOX at 300 and you know you are going to get loads of games for the PS2 which one would most people choose, I here taking about someone who hasn't played a console in there life or wants an upgrade from the Genesis or the SNES and has the choice. I know that XBOX is for people who are new to the console area but with the cost of a PS2 at 150 with loads of ripped games and the XBOX at 300 with around 50 games I feel the XBOX will lose

Who knows if the XBOX is a success then maybe it will happen, but untill then this machine is still the underdog and need time to shine out to those who are looking for a new way in life...with the XBOX

BIG_BUTTER
03-22-2002, 08:56 PM
hey ty818

a fool is one to judge and assume that a person you dont even know would do something that is wrong.

My original msg was backing up my 90.00 games for ME ME ME ME ME ME ME not for a friend, and not a 15.00 music cd.

we are not looking for ripped cds hey, thats stealing. But you would only assume that of me, someone you dont know because you are probably guilty of ripped software and games.

i dont want ripped software, i dont want back ups for my friends . when i get an xbox i would like backups of my expensive games to put away just in case.

thats it , thats all. nothing more. not everyone that wants to backup their stuff are thievs.

Who is more fool. the fool or the fool who follows it?

hey keep fit and have fun!!!!
hahahahahaha :cool:

Batman2372
03-23-2002, 08:48 AM
Okay, BIG_BUTTER, the cut and dry answer to your question:

As of this moment, it is ILLEGAL for you to break the copy protection and make a backup of your Xbox games.

Period.

BIG_BUTTER
03-23-2002, 09:34 AM
totally understand that batman.

but its great discussion though.

Snoopy7548
03-23-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Batman2372
As of this moment, it is ILLEGAL for you to break the copy protection and make a backup of your Xbox games.

when would it be legal to break the protection and copy the games? of course its illegal, and it will always be illegal.

Crazy Joe
03-23-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by BIG_BUTTER
Here in OH CANADA games are so expensive. are we able to make back up copies or do we go pay another $90.00 for the same game .


Games are almost exactly the same price in Canada as in the US(once you do a currency conversion) $50 US = about $79 CDN. I have seen any games that cost 90.00 in Canada, most are $70 - $80 and some are even in the 60s, so some games are CHEAPER in Canada.

BIG_BUTTER
03-24-2002, 06:54 AM
come to the maritimes good friend. nba 2k2 here is 89.99.
not in the states . its 49.99.

of course when you change the currency it will cost the same. because it is CANADIAN money.

if our money was as equal as the states the system would be
299.99 as well.

the xbox is 449.99 here.

60.00 dollars is a medium difference from 40.00.

plus our taxes are outrages. here in saint john n.b.
our taxes are 15%. buuuugh h.s.t.
compared to our neighbors taxes are crazy here.
minimum wage is 6.00$
so its a big difference!

but I wouldnt want to live any where else than CANADA.

cause in CANADA we get to see them all!

hahahah keep fit and have fun:cool:

scoomey
03-24-2002, 07:47 AM
does anyone here use audiogalaxy or napster before they got shut down.if stealing games is wrong so is music. i download music all the time and i would games too.

Hugh_Jass
03-24-2002, 09:53 AM
I've downloaded music in order to preview the material. If I like the song I'll buy the CD. If I LOVE the song then I'll buy the entire catalog from the artist.

When record companies put copy-protection on CDs and actually prevent me from ripping CDs I purchased I will lose all incentive to buy CDs.

But you're right. Downloading music is stealing, too.