Is innovation and originality long gone in gaming?

**AlBoogy** · 12-29-2002

I started thinking the other day about what games ive been enjoying the most and which ones im looking forward to. I realized, almost all of them have some sort of violence or shooting in them. Think about the top 3 games this year for all consoles. GTA Vice City, Splinter Cell and Metroid Prime. All of them have shooting. And one takes violence to a whole new level. Look, Im not one of these peope that thinks games shouldnt be sold to kids and violence in games makes people go crazy. At all. My favorite genre is FPS. The games I enjoy the most right now are Ghost Recon and UC. And the games Im most looking forward to are Halo 2 and Brute Force. But occassionally I like to see something different being offered to videogame fans or in other words the "hardcore" gamer.

Im just wondering will anyone grow the guts to come out with new, innovative games? I personally think thats why Dreamcast died. They tried too hard to make something new. A new experience. But as time passed with DC and software sales were lower then expected on titles such as Shenmue and Jet Set Radio (yeah these games had a little violence in them but they were fresh, new ideas) I realized one thing, Videogames has gone to the casual gamer. Sorry if this comes off like a rant or whatever and I thank anyone who read this far. Its just a thought Ive had of the current state of videogames for a whle now. And I wanted to share my thoughts with you all. Has anyone else had these thoughts? Or anyone disagree?

**Cloud Strife** · 12-29-2002

I can agree a little bit with what your saying. Innovation has been dying down a bit. Luckily, the Xbox has it and the GC has a little bit of it. I found games like Blinx and Gun Valkyrie to have innovation. Deathrow is another one. The last videogame system to have a lot of innovation was the Dreamcast. The DC had Shenmue, Samba De Amigo, Seman, Phantasy Star Online, Jet Grind Radio, etc. The Sega Saturn had Nights and Burning Rangers. Those kind of games were completely different than anything else I ever played before then on consoles. That is why I still like the Dreamcast very much. I'll admit that Sega is starting to lose it a little since they've gone multi-platform. Although I find most of their Xbox games great, their other system games are more of rehases just to make money.

**EHWfedPres** · 12-29-2002

Um, which of those games took violence to a new level? Thats right, neither. Play Solider of Fortune or Thrill Kill, makes Vice City look like childs play.

**LTM360** · 12-29-2002

I can agree with almost everything, I've been playing video games for years now, and I personnally don't like the direction video games are going, I'll be the first to tell you I was looking forward to Vice City, and bought it on its release date, When I played it, all it was, was killing, drugs, and violence. Like you said, I could care less about the content, but that's all it was! There was no difficulty to it, there was no innovation, just kill people, that's it. I was very very happy when Contra returned to its roots in Shattered Soldier, I got it this christmas and love it to death like I did the ones on NES, SNES, and Genesis. I wish gaming companies would look at this game, no blood, no cursing, not extreme violence, and its much better than Vice City ever will be. Ironic isn't it.

**EHWfedPres** · 12-29-2002

Originally posted by LTM360
and its much better than Vice City ever will be.

Thats an opinion...not a fact.

**Evil_Dr_Beefy** · 12-29-2002

Oh boy, the old there is no innovation in videogames rant...let me ask you a question...what is innovation? Is it playing something new? Or is it taking a gamble on something only to find that the gaming publc hates it....but at the same time..it can pay off..steel battalion.....i don't think that any western game makers would have the balls to release a title like that here...That's not a bash on western gamemakers...it just that very few companies want to take that gamble...innovation is in the eye of the beholder

**EHWfedPres** · 12-29-2002

I think that innovation still exists, but mostly within the genre. Halo revolutionized the FPS genre while Deathrow livened up a dying one (extreme fictious sports in the future). But games like Madden and Tony Hawk are always the same crap year after year. Steel Battalion is new and innovative. If you think its not, then find me one other game that has its own 40 button controller (pc games and a kayboard dont count of course). What about Splinter Cell? You have to make use of light and darkness and sound if you want to get anything done. Also, look at Project Ego (or fable if you will) and BC, and even morrowind...very innovative.

**Evil_Dr_Beefy** · 12-29-2002

Ok, halo is nothing more than cool graphics and smarter badguys in a very cool package..it's still a fps...just like halflife..splinter cell is metalgear to the next level....all the game maker did was take the best of some game and added a new twist..innovation is in the eye of the beholder.....untill we "the hardcore" can show game companys that innovation =profits..there won't be any..not for a very long time. Still what is innovation? is it a new idea done right to equal profit......a gamble....Mmm....

**EHWfedPres** · 12-29-2002

Originally posted by Evil_Dr_Beefy
Ok, halo is nothing more than cool graphics and smarter badguys in a very cool package..it's still a fps

You are wrong. Halo only allows you to have 2 weapons, which makes for more strategic combat, multiplayer vehicles, customizable gameplay modes, well designed multiplayer levels, etc. You must not have played much Halo, i can tell. try playing with at least 8 people, you'll love the game to death.

**Xbox Owner** · 12-29-2002

Damn get GC if you want non-violent games..not saying gc is kiddy, but it has mario and that..which are fun..but not shooting and ****.

**Evil_Dr_Beefy** · 12-29-2002

Sorry, I didn't mean that as a bash to Halo..please forgive me.....i haven't played it mutiplayer yet....I don't know the whole innovation thing...there is some..and i can see both points of view..i guess that we gamers are just hungry for new idea, and new worlds to play in...i guess that just takes times.

I guess that innovation is like porn (work with me , son) you know it when you see it....

**BCan** · 12-30-2002

As someone mentioned earlier, innovation is in the eye of the beholder...

Some of us see that Halo has been innovative with it's take on the FPS, like Splinter Cells, as was Half Life's on PC.

I do agree that there are barely any really "new" ideas as such, even Steel Batallion is another Mech game, only the controller sets it apart..

I think Blinx is one of the first ones to show some real innovation, by using the hardware of the console to change how the game is played. I mean to record yourself doing stuff, then play it, and have yourself doing more stuff. I love the idea of the game playing like a video, allowing for rewind, fast forward, pause....

I will have to get it soon....

It is more than console gaming that is stuck in the formulaic production of material, listen to music, or watch TV and you will see the same ideas over and over and over again....

**TheCovenant** · 12-30-2002

Originally posted by EHWfedPres

Thats an opinion...not a fact.

just like this?

Um, which of those games took violence to a new level? Thats right, neither. Play Solider of Fortune or Thrill Kill, makes Vice City look like childs play.

in vice city, you can have sex with a hooker, and then kill her. that's more violent than any fps out so far.

except maybe duke nukem (remember tyhe strippers? you could kill them)

**Snoopy7548** · 12-30-2002

Originally posted by AlBoogy
I realized, almost all of them have some sort of violence or shooting in them. Think about the top 3 games this year for all consoles. GTA Vice City, Splinter Cell and Metroid Prime. All of them have shooting.

splinter cell isnt really an fps, and it doesnt have THAT much shooting. like in some missions, you cant even use your gun, you must use the shadows and everything to win the mission. i consider that an innovation. thats like the first game where you have to pay attention to the lighting and use it to your advantage.

**TheCovenant** · 12-30-2002

as for innovation,

fable, B.C., halo 2 (vehicles,massive outdoor lush battles),galaxies (there is so much there), phantasy star ( it's old, but new to many), steel battalion, bmx:XXX.

innovation is not dead. it never will be. every time somebody tries to make a game better, that's innovation.

and since no genre is perfect, there will always be room for innovation, and if theres room for innovation theres room for profit, which everyone is interested in, and will always fuel the cycle

**Cloud Strife** · 12-30-2002

Originally posted by TheCovenant
as for innovation,

fable, B.C., halo 2 (vehicles,massive outdoor lush battles),galaxies (there is so much there), phantasy star ( it's old, but new to many), steel battalion, bmx:XXX.

innovation is not dead. it never will be. every time somebody tries to make a game better, that's innovation.

and since no genre is perfect, there will always be room for innovation, and if theres room for innovation theres room for profit, which everyone is interested in, and will always fuel the cycle

you conisder BMX XXX inovation.

I thought that game was put together just for people that like to look at strip clubs.

**AlBoogy** · 12-30-2002

Originally posted by TheCovenant
as for innovation,

fable, B.C., halo 2 (vehicles,massive outdoor lush battles),galaxies (there is so much there), phantasy star ( it's old, but new to many), steel battalion, bmx:XXX.

innovation is not dead. it never will be. every time somebody tries to make a game better, that's innovation.

and since no genre is perfect, there will always be room for innovation, and if theres room for innovation theres room for profit, which everyone is interested in, and will always fuel the cycle

I agree with burning ranger. BMX isnt an innovative game. Its just plain trash trying to make a buck with shock factor. You kinda contradict yourself. You say innovation isnt dead but yet you name halo 2. Thats the point Im trying to make. Bungie feels the pressure of putting out halo 2 before putting out any other new project. Why? Because now the public is fixated on halo. Theres no doubt halo 2 will be an amazing game but for a long time they talked about making a different game and they had to put it on the backburners.
My other point is innovative games are backed by companies with large pockets. Fable? backed by PM and has loads of cash not to mention MS is financing probably the entire project. And Steel Batallion. Must we say who made that?

**TheCovenant** · 12-31-2002

well, it's trash, but how many game have you seen with nudity that raw? revolutionize the industry.

halo 2 has so many new innovative things, that it is, well, an innovated game.

and if a company needs money too bring a new concept into the genre, so be it.

that does not mean innovetion is dead.

as for introducing naked chicks into a bicycle game, that takes innovation, don't you agree?

i'm not saying i'm a fan of it, nor of the bmx series in general, it's just that, that was something new to the genre, thus it was innovated.

**BCan** · 12-31-2002

How is Galaxies innovative? It's EverQuest, or Ultima Online with a Star Wars flavour.....

You look deep and hard enough, most games out there are just small changes to what we have already have....

**AlBoogy** · 12-31-2002

Originally posted by BCan
How is Galaxies innovative? It's EverQuest, or Ultima Online with a Star Wars flavour.....

You look deep and hard enough, most games out there are just small changes to what we have already have....

I agree. Although seaman on DC was pretty uhhh strange lol