How long before online cheating appears?

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

I've yet to get online with Halo since I'm waiting to see what MS does with online play before I get high speed Internet for home.

What I'm wondering is, how long before cheaters appear online. It was weeks before people started intercepting/faking packets in Doom to lead targets with 100% accuracy. Are people doing this with Halo or are communications encrypted too well?

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by mahalan
I've yet to get online with Halo since I'm waiting to see what MS does with online play before I get high speed Internet for home.

What I'm wondering is, how long before cheaters appear online. It was weeks before people started intercepting/faking packets in Doom to lead targets with 100% accuracy. Are people doing this with Halo or are communications encrypted too well?

I never encounterd Lag playing doom, Not even on a 14.4 modem. So i dont know what your talking about, always had 100% accuracy but anyways........

Hacks/cheats do exist online, But as far as console gaming i dont see it happening. Hacks/cheats usually run idle in the back round of your OS, I dont see how that would be possible on xbox.

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

Pretty easily. Have a PC setup as a "firewall" on your network between your hub and online connection. Have a TSR running one the PC which parses all online communications (which will only be from your Xbox) and inserts/modifies the necessary packets to correct your aiming to ensure 100% accuracy in your Halo play.

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by mahalan
Pretty easily. Have a PC setup as a "firewall" on your network between your hub and online connection. Have a TSR running one the PC which parses all online communications (which will only be from your Xbox) and inserts/modifies the necessary packets to correct your aiming to ensure 100% accuracy in your Halo play.

In theory the only way that would work is if the "mod" could predict when and where you were going to shoot giving you a false sense of 0 ping.

Theres UT servers that run ZP (zero ping) to make it feel less laggy.

And to achieve 100% accuarcy people use things called Aim bots, That suto target. All you have to do is pull the trigger. Has nothing to do with Modifying the packets.

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

Jjax, think we're discussing the same thing only in different terms. Yes, it is an "aimbot". No, the aimbot does have to modify or add packets in order to do its job.

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by mahalan

What I'm wondering is, how long before cheaters appear online. It was weeks before people started intercepting/faking packets in Doom to lead targets with 100% accuracy.

Im guessing your werent really clear about what your were talking about earlier. But you thought that "intercepting/faking packets " gave you aim bot results. Hope our conversation helped clear things up.

**XBOX Dude** · 03-14-2002

to make a hack on the xbox wouldn't you need to install it on the xbox and since no one can write programes for the xbox like that yet it will be a while before we see cheating and since their microsft servers they'll probably be watched

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by XBOX Dude
to make a hack on the xbox wouldn't you need to install it on the xbox and since no one can write programes for the xbox like that yet it will be a while before we see cheating and since their microsft servers they'll probably be watched

No, Im sure people are creative and smart enough to have a PC networked to there box (which most do all ready) and have a program(hack) running on there PC att he same time.

People have even put Linux as A OS on there box already, once thats done im sure its simple to run a Hack and Boot up a game.

I guess were gonna have to wait and see. I hate cheaters. Most online games have things called CSHP (client server hack protection) that help detect hacks. But they always have to update constantly being new hacks are being created to bypass the CSHP. Its a constant tug of war.

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

No. All you need to do is intercept the packets after they leave the Xbox and before they're transmitted to the Web. Once you've got the packet stream, you just have to be able to read them so you can add or modify packets being sent from your Xbox to the servers to achieve the desired results.

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by mahalan
No. All you need to do is intercept the packets after they leave the Xbox and before they're transmitted to the Web. Once you've got the packet stream, you just have to be able to read them so you can add or modify packets being sent from your Xbox to the servers to achieve the desired results.

Dude, Your not making sense. What would be the point of this. They would mean your "hack" would have to be able to see the future and change it to the results you want under a second. I think you need to do more research about how hacks work.

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

Very true Jjax. Game Developer magazine ran an article on this about a year ago. The problem is that hacks at this level are VERY difficult to deal with.

Originally, they incorporated server software that dropped connections with anyone who had 100% aim accuracy. The hacks responded with 99% accuracy. The servers started dropping anyone with more than X% accuracy. The hacks responded with X-Y% accuracy.

Some servers started incorporating encrypted keys within packets to verify client authenticity. A hack could then modify packets (within limitations since most keys were action dependent) but couldn't add them without being dropped. This led to hacks figuring out the key generation algorithm and introduced additional lag onto servers as well.

The long and short of it is: "Does anyone know how the Xbox is dealing with this?" Is it worth going online or will I end up being frustrated by a bunch of cheaters?

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

LOL. We seem to be putting up simultaneous posts so we're talking on two separate tracks.

You're right. The software would have to intercept and modify or add packets in less than a second. That's why the hacks that do this have algorithms which track relative "enemy" positions and extrapolate these relative positions based upon your and their movement. When a "fire" message is received, they'll generally add packets before it to correct for aim based upon predicted enemy position.

Now, have I shown that I know enough about how this works for you?

**l Maximus l** · 03-14-2002

To me, a think a really bored little idiot would actually hack and cheat on Halo if they could. Personally, I like the challenge of battling and aiming at my opponent rather than just walking along and killing my opponent even if I am not aiming at him. Sounds kinda lame to me.

I played Halo last night and had a blast!

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

You're right, Maximus. It is lame and boring. The problem is that a LOT of online games have been ruined by this type of crap. Some people just want to ruin everyone else's fun. Unless you've got friends you can trust online, you'll never know if you're getting owned because the other guy's cheating or just phenomenal. Unfortunately, once one person starts owning everyone doing this a flock seems to follow destroying the whole game.

In online PC play, Microsoft's made a pretty good attempt to stop this with their AoE games but hackers still ruined things within weeks.

**l Maximus l** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by mahalan
You're right, Maximus. It is lame and boring. The problem is that a LOT of online games have been ruined by this type of crap. Some people just want to ruin everyone else's fun. Unless you've got friends you can trust online, you'll never know if you're getting owned because the other guy's cheating or just phenomenal. Unfortunately, once one person starts owning everyone doing this a flock seems to follow destroying the whole game.

In online PC play, Microsoft's made a pretty good attempt to stop this with their AoE games but hackers still ruined things within weeks.

I hear ya...but, I don't think it's possible to hack the XBox while plaing on-line. In the options menu, if one makes a custom game to play on-line with special capabilities, all people have the same capabilities to make things even and fair. So far, I haven't played anyone on Gamespy that has figured out a way to cheat.

People probably think I cheat because I am pretty decent at Halo

hehe

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

A good article on the topic is here:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...itchard_01.htm

It's definitely possible using the same techniques as most online games since you're not hacking the game but intercepting packets after they leave the console. I'm just curious as to whether or not MS built a decent protection system into online play.

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Like i said before, Were gonna have to wait and see. But i see hacks being very realistic once the online network is up.

**mahalan** · 03-14-2002

To be honest, I'm surprised we haven't seen it already with Halo. It's definitely had enough online time for people to modify existing aimbots and it's also popular enough to attract attention. This is what's making me wonder if there's any type of key attached to packets.

**JJaX** · 03-14-2002

Originally posted by mahalan
To be honest, I'm surprised we haven't seen it already with Halo. It's definitely had enough online time for people to modify existing aimbots and it's also popular enough to attract attention. This is what's making me wonder if there's any type of key attached to packets.

Im sure if a hack was present halo would recognize modified packets and think there was something wrong with system link and a error message would be plastered on the screen.