3gb left wtf?

[Jackyboy]

why do i only have 3gb of data left? my hard drive was suppose to be 20gb but it was only around 10gb when i got it. why?

[laughs]

why do i only have 3gb of data left? my hard drive was suppose to be 20gb but it was only around 10gb when i got it. why?

Same thing I was wondering... Although mine was around 13-14gb... Did you dlete all those videos and junk on there?

[pitt4ever]

Yeah, delete all the preloaded stuff. The FFXI beta also takes up 5 GB.

[laughs]

Yeah, delete all the preloaded stuff. The FFXI beta also takes up 5 GB.

Yes, and what a waste of time that was.

[George89]

oh it comes preloaded with FFXI beta?

[laughs]

oh it comes preloaded with FFXI beta?

No, the last OXM had a FFXI beta dvd.

[thatdude222]

mine was 12 gb.... i wonder whats taking up the extra 7-8..

[laughs]

mine was 12 gb.... i wonder whats taking up the extra 7-8..

Maybe it's the whole interface :confused:

[thatdude222]

i wouldnt think so because the interface comes with the core also.... and that doesnt have a hard drive

[laughs]

i wouldnt think so because the interface comes with the core also.... and that doesnt have a hard drive

Good point.... So where is the extra space going??? I only had 13gb :cuss:

[Whisper]

files needed for backwards compatibility.. an own operating system designed specifically for that reason.

[thatdude222]

so if i format the drive so theres no BC files.... then ill get 19-20 gigs?

[Crazy Joe]

so if i format the drive so theres no BC files.... then ill get 19-20 gigs?


GOOD QUESTION! I wonder..... man, i almost want to go buy a memory card to transfer my saves so I can try this out.. It's really too bad the HD didn't come clean and it could just download the emulators for the games you try to play. I don't need emulators for 200+ games, MAYBE 20+

[Whisper]

formatting the drive does not get rid of the files, only reverts it back to where it started (mine started at 11GB)

[Soda Jones]

Microsoft is screwing you all. I am becoming less and less impressed with them this time around.

[ShadedNine]

Relax guys. The drive is partitioned, and for good reason.

You know all those fancy games that manage to eliminate load times? They do so by dumping a good chunk of the disc's data temporarily onto the hard drive. But, rather than forcing every game to try and make their code compensate for idiots who fill their drives right to the brim, MS has set aside a portion of the drive for exactly that purpose. The exact size of the partition I don't know, though I'm sure people have figured it out by plugging it into a computer.

When you format the drive, you're only formatting the one partition that you have access to. If you really want to clean it up, you can format it with your computer to get all of the space back, but that will of course render it inoperable on your 360.

If you really need more space, the best you can do is plug a laptop harddrive inside using the USB interface, but I don't see the need anyway, since this time around all my music can be streamed across from my PC.

[thatdude222]

Relax guys. The drive is partitioned, and for good reason.

You know all those fancy games that manage to eliminate load times? They do so by dumping a good chunk of the disc's data temporarily onto the hard drive. But, rather than forcing every game to try and make their code compensate for idiots who fill their drives right to the brim, MS has set aside a portion of the drive for exactly that purpose. The exact size of the partition I don't know, though I'm sure people have figured it out by plugging it into a computer.

When you format the drive, you're only formatting the one partition that you have access to. If you really want to clean it up, you can format it with your computer to get all of the space back, but that will of course render it inoperable on your 360.

If you really need more space, the best you can do is plug a laptop harddrive inside using the USB interface, but I don't see the need anyway, since this time around all my music can be streamed across from my PC.do you need windows media center to do that or can u do it with any computer?

edit: dammit you need windows xp to stream music, and im running 2k

[Variation-XBA]

Wow people like to complain. There has been many threads on why there isn't a full 20G free space, and already mentioned here.

Delete the crap you dont use if you want more space, easy as that.

[thatdude222]

Wow people like to complain. There has been many threads on why there isn't a full 20G free space, and already mentioned here.

Delete the crap you dont use if you want more space, easy as that.
........ we paid for 20 gigs, we want 20 gigs. not 12.

[swivel]

........ we paid for 20 gigs, we want 20 gigs. not 12.

I agree with you.

Nobody is saying that there isn't a very good technical explanation for what the other space is doing, but Microsoft needs to make up its mind on whether or not they want to get a console into every living room, and have this console appeal to non-gamers and novices. They've said that is part of their strategy, but then they expect you to understand enough technical jargon to get why the HD has less space than advertised.

Those of us with some PC experience will understand. But Uncle Mark and Aunt Flo are going to see 20 GB on the box, and notice that they quickly only have 12 GB left. This is a stupid mistake from a company attempting to appeal to everyone.

What they should put on the box is "12 GB HD" if that is all that is freely available to the user upon hook-up. Telling them they can use an internet hack, or take their box apart is great if you want to feel 1337, but not so good if you want to help others understand and adopt.

There have already been class-action lawsuits over PC HD's due to the imperfect translation from HD sizes based on the power of 2, and the size given as a rounded-up number. 40GB HD only have space for 38 or so Gigabytes of data. That's because there is 1,024 bytes in a Megabyte, not 1,000.

If you have PC people suing, you probably shouldn't be passing that habit on to the living room, especially when you are taking an additional 5 GB for "System Use".


"10 Gigabyte Hard Drive Included! Buy NOW and get an ADDITIONAL 2 Gigabytes for FREE!!!"

^^^ How much better does that sound?

[mattgame]

Delete. Delete. And then after you do that, yes, delete.:sleeping:

[swivel]

Delete. Delete. And then after you do that, yes, delete.:sleeping:

I was under the impression that much of the used space is partitioned into a system drive that the user cannot access. Check out some of the posts on the first page to catch up with the arguments, complaints, and suggestions up to this point.

[Tony_Macaroni]

GOOD QUESTION! I wonder..... man, i almost want to go buy a memory card to transfer my saves so I can try this out.. It's really too bad the HD didn't come clean and it could just download the emulators for the games you try to play. I don't need emulators for 200+ games, MAYBE 20+
where the hell have YOU been man!

[thatdude222]

I agree with you.

Nobody is saying that there isn't a very good technical explanation for what the other space is doing, but Microsoft needs to make up its mind on whether or not they want to get a console into every living room, and have this console appeal to non-gamers and novices. They've said that is part of their strategy, but then they expect you to understand enough technical jargon to get why the HD has less space than advertised.

Those of us with some PC experience will understand. But Uncle Mark and Aunt Flo are going to see 20 GB on the box, and notice that they quickly only have 12 GB left. This is a stupid mistake from a company attempting to appeal to everyone.

What they should put on the box is "12 GB HD" if that is all that is freely available to the user upon hook-up. Telling them they can use an internet hack, or take their box apart is great if you want to feel 1337, but not so good if you want to help others understand and adopt.

There have already been class-action lawsuits over PC HD's due to the imperfect translation from HD sizes based on the power of 2, and the size given as a rounded-up number. 40GB HD only have space for 38 or so Gigabytes of data. That's because there is 1,024 bytes in a Megabyte, not 1,000.

If you have PC people suing, you probably shouldn't be passing that habit on to the living room, especially when you are taking an additional 5 GB for "System Use".


"10 Gigabyte Hard Drive Included! Buy NOW and get an ADDITIONAL 2 Gigabytes for FREE!!!"

^^^ How much better does that sound?exactly. it should say 12 gigs, or make the hard drive actually 28 but say 20 when you boot the 360. its almost false advertisment.

[ShadedNine]

In a perfect world, they wouldn't be putting *any* technical specs on product packaging. Those who know enough when shopping for a product can easily look up the specifications that might actually matter. For the most part though, just about everything you read on a product's packaging is relatively useless marketing hype. Even worse, since they can't outright lie about their specs, you get companies wasting resources and raising costs on specs that help sell the product, but don't actually matter. Case in point: RMS Watts, or massive amounts of memory on crappy video cards.

Better yet, move the specs into something like nutritional info on food products. Instead of slapping it all over the front of the box in big letters, put the specs in a tidy little square full of enough technical lingo to scare off those who don't know any better and would make a purchasing decision on a trivial spec. But alas, this isn't a perfect world.

[swivel]

In a perfect world, they wouldn't be putting *any* technical specs on product packaging. Those who know enough when shopping for a product can easily look up the specifications that might actually matter. For the most part though, just about everything you read on a product's packaging is relatively useless marketing hype. Even worse, since they can't outright lie about their specs, you get companies wasting resources and raising costs on specs that help sell the product, but don't actually matter. Case in point: RMS Watts, or massive amounts of memory on crappy video cards.

Better yet, move the specs into something like nutritional info on food products. Instead of slapping it all over the front of the box in big letters, put the specs in a tidy little square full of enough technical lingo to scare off those who don't know any better and would make a purchasing decision on a trivial spec. But alas, this isn't a perfect world.

Consumers must have certain numbers in order to make informed decisions. What companies do with these numbers falls on either side of an ethical line. There must be some vigilance to make sure that, more often than not, they fall on the correct side.

It would be hard to sell MP3 players without advertising capacity. The best way to do this is to give a raw number of physical space, and assume that the consumer knows how much space their music will occupy. Instead, you get too many companies advertising how many songs the device will hold. As asterix points to some Lillipution font which reads: "Encoded WMA at 96 kbps". Since most people use the horrible MP3 codec, this advertisement is misleading at best.

I am as pro-company as you will find a person. I love Wal-Mart, and all companies like them that are pro-consumer. But I am ever-vigilant about company ethics, especially in advertising. I think MS landed on the wrong side of the line here. Not far from the line, not like Enron, or anything, but still a bad choice.

Of course, it is hard to blame them. They are doing what is ever becoming the standard in their industry. My girlfriend's new Dell had less than the 100 GB HD advertised. 15 GB less! This partition contained an image of the original OS and program installation. I had to download some tools off of the internet to get the space back. This is cheaper for them than including a few DVD's. It is still bad form.

Perhaps MS didn't mean to drop this where they did. Perhaps, due to our ethical enuii, we have been too stringent in our defense of these companies as they slowly move the line. Maybe it is our fault for replacing vigilance with blind faith.

[Whisper]

its not false advertisement.. the product inside the system is indeed a 20GB hard drive

[swivel]

its not false advertisement.. the product inside the system is indeed a 20GB hard drive

I think consumers will expect that what you advertise as in there is also usable by the consumer.

It is common for chip manufacturers to disable portions of a CPU in order to make a budget chip out of a much more expensive chip. This is actually cheaper for them, rather than having another assembly line, chip design, light mask, etc. Let's say a Celeron processor was just a Pentium 4 with 512 KB of the cache disabled. (I don't know offhand which chips are the same as what, but both AMD and Intel do this).

Now. Inside that box is a CPU with 1MB of cache. But only 512 KB is usable by the consumer. Are you, Whisper, suggesting that Intel would be correct in advertising this chip as a Pentium 4? Or having 1 MB of cache?

Now, what if there was a complex hack that you could download off of the Internet and run on your system. This hack would also require that you remove the chip, and jumper two pins with the graphite from a pencil. Doing this would unlock the cache and effectively give you a functional Pentium 4. Would it now be ok to advertise the Celeron as a Pentium 4?

I can't think of anyone who would see the above two scenarios as reasonable. And the analogy is perfect. A CPU is designed to crunch numbers as fast and reliably as possible. A hard drive is designed to store information. In both cases you would be advertising the product as truly there, but not having as much function as advertised. Perhaps there is a way for the user to salvage that functionality, but not without voiding a warranty, or threatening the viability and longevity of the system.

[ShadedNine]

I think consumers will expect that what you advertise as in there is also usable by the consumer.

It is common for chip manufacturers to disable portions of a CPU in order to make a budget chip out of a much more expensive chip. This is actually cheaper for them, rather than having another assembly line, chip design, light mask, etc. Let's say a Celeron processor was just a Pentium 4 with 512 KB of the cache disabled. (I don't know offhand which chips are the same as what, but both AMD and Intel do this).

I'm not sure this entirely appropriate as an analogy for what's happening with the 360.

In fact, I don't know that you could do *any* amount of work on the 360s hard drive to free up the locked partition and still have it function properly with your 360. The difference is, the locked are hasn't been locked to handicap the drive, it's been locked to give the system the room it needs to build a paging file. One could argue that it's really no different from any PC, where you really haven't got much choice but to leave some HD space free for your paging file and OS. Microsoft might be a little less clear about it, but I'll bet you most purchasers of consumer PCs won't understand that they really only have 150GB of that 160GB drive for personal use (less of course if it's a dell/hp/sony).

Granted, the % of unavailable space on a 360 is a lot higher, but only because they didn't want to have to charge the extra $40 it would take to bump it up a step (bear in mind, these are 2.5" drives).

[Variation-XBA]

........ we paid for 20 gigs, we want 20 gigs. not 12.
does it say 20gigs "usable"? No it doesn't.

Buy a PC HDD and it's the same thing, granted, nowhere near as much space is used, but you never get exactly the amount shown on the box.

[thatdude222]

does it say 20gigs "usable"? No it doesn't.

Buy a PC HDD and it's the same thing, granted, nowhere near as much space is used, but you never get exactly the amount shown on the box.you have to be joking. you are, arent you? when someone sees how much space is on a hard drive, they have and should not
have any reason to believe that the space they are perchasing is "unusable".
to the consumer, its not a 20gig drive if only 12 is "usuable". its a 12 gig.

[swivel]

does it say 20gigs "usable"? No it doesn't.

Buy a PC HDD and it's the same thing, granted, nowhere near as much space is used, but you never get exactly the amount shown on the box.

Part of what you are buying is the operating system, and the included applications. The consumer is shelling out hundreds of dollars for this software, and I believe they expect and know how much space it will consume.

I do not think most Xbox 2 owners will understand why such a large amount of their space is reserved for system-specific functions. Especially when there is an optional system that runs without the HD.

There's nothing wrong with either one of our positions, they just do not align. We can press our case with logic and examples. I'm sure you do not mean to be rude with your comments, and I expect a poster to follow this post telling me how you meant nothing by it, but if we were having a conversation, and you said, "Does it say 20 gigs usable? No it doesn't", I would assume that you were being a jerk on purpose, or trying to show off in front of nearby girls. I understand that this is the way that most people choose to communicate on the internet, but I am not going to allow my standards to slide due to an anonymous medium. Please think about your tone and choice of words. Behind every avatar and signature there is a real human.

[Variation-XBA]

I do not think most Xbox 2 owners will understand why such a large amount of their space is reserved for system-specific functions. Especially when there is an optional system that runs without the HD.
This I agree with, since we are talking in this thread now about this very subject, and how many don't know why there is a large partitioned space.


but if we were having a conversation, and you said, "Does it say 20 gigs usable? No it doesn't", I would assume that you were being a jerk on purpose, or trying to show off in front of nearby girls.And on the internet, there's obviously no other way to communicate with some people, because it HAS been explained why the HDD is the way it is, but people either don't know, or want something to complain about anyways.


Please think about your tone and choice of words. Behind every avatar and signature there is a real human.
Not trying to offend or sound whatever, but it's frustrating when the facts are there, but people choose to gripe anyways. And this IS the internet, shouldn't get worked up about what people say on a public forum, because we all know what kind of people can be on here ;)

[thatdude222]

internet miscommunication asside, can we all agree on the fact that microsoft screwed up? past like 12gb on my drive i cannot delete anymore yet it stays at 12gb; the box said it was 20gigs, and it wasnt. the information they are giving the consumer is misleading. it doesnt matter what else is on the drive; we paid for 20 gigs of free space and we want 20 gigs of free space. 18-19 gigs of free space i can understand; not 12. we are missing 40% of the space we thought we were paying for. how can you dissagree with this?

[swivel]

And this IS the internet, shouldn't get worked up about what people say on a public forum, because we all know what kind of people can be on here ;)

:cheers:

I promise you I am not worked up. I don't get worked up. Bit of a control freak, when it comes to emotions.

And hey, I can't change the world, but I can try to make my own personal bubble a better place. In my experience, the tone used on forums spreads like a plague, infecting very, very nice people. At some point I think we all catch ourselves saying things online that we wouldn't in any other situation. Part of the problem is that humans were not meant to communicate in any way except face-to-face. Our brains are wired to look for facial cues and gestures. These create a feedback mechanism that serves as a governor for our behavior.

Without that system in place, we become socially unaware and uncouthe. This is why I think smilies are so popular online. They serve as a crippled substitute to attempt at conveying the same meaning.

I find that they lack in power what I can more easily explain with words. I do not expect another netizen to feel empathy for me, or to modify their behavior... but how can I expect anything if they don't even know how they are making me feel?

I realize that I come across as naive, overly sensitive, juvenille or whatnot by constantly telling people when I am offended, disgusted, confused, etc... But how else do I show that my face is scrunched up, or my eyebrows raised, or my lips downturned? It is what people choose to do after they have this knowledge that helps me classify them, not the original offense.


And to reply to ThatDude: I think you are going to have a lot of company once more XBox2's hit the shelves. Right now we have adoption by the hardcore, who understands. When people are getting them to store music and such, the space is going to be a major concern. Especially when a $250 MP3 player has over twice the capacity that a $500 media hub/gaming console has.

One of the great things about the original XBox was that it was built on existing PC hardware. Here is one case where I think MS is going backwards. HD's are dirt cheap now, especially compared to when the XBox was built. People are throwing away multi-gig drives to put in hundred-gig drives. MS could have included a 3.5" desktop drive with 120 GB capacity for the same cost that you get a 2.5" 20 GB drive that required the manufacture of a quick-release and sexy housing.

Form < Function

[thatdude222]

i totally agree. they could have put an internal 40gb drive for less than half the price of the drive they use now.

[CENCEE]

Yeah, delete all the preloaded stuff. The FFXI beta also takes up 5 GB.


FIRST OF ALL... LET'S GO BLITZBURG!!!!


Hey, where can i find all those preloaded stuff and that FFXI beta?:bang: it will be great help.

[thatdude222]

FIRST OF ALL... LET'S GO BLITZBURG!!!!


Hey, where can i find all those preloaded stuff and that FFXI beta?:bang: it will be great help.most of the preloaded stuff is the movies, its under teh videos section of media. the FFXI beta came with february OXM.

[ShadedNine]

we are missing 40% of the space we thought we were paying for.

There's where you're wrong though. It's not missing, it just isn't accessible.

Whether or not you agree to their policy of locking you out of that space (for your own good) is a separate argument, it's certainly not missing, and MS isn't scamming you in any way. I certainly don't expect them to pay for a larger drive and then not advertise it as such, even if people don't understand it's exact usage. Some people might feel differently, but then I'd say there's far far worse blatantly deceptive adverts from equally reputable companies out there.

[thatdude222]

There's where you're wrong though. It's not missing, it just isn't accessible.

Whether or not you agree to their policy of locking you out of that space (for your own good) is a separate argument, it's certainly not missing, and MS isn't scamming you in any way. I certainly don't expect them to pay for a larger drive and then not advertise it as such, even if people don't understand it's exact usage. Some people might feel differently, but then I'd say there's far far worse blatantly deceptive adverts from equally reputable companies out there.when you label a drive 20 gb, i would hope that it implies that the consumer can use the 20 gigs.

[swivel]

There's where you're wrong though. It's not missing, it just isn't accessible.

Whether or not you agree to their policy of locking you out of that space (for your own good) is a separate argument, it's certainly not missing, and MS isn't scamming you in any way. I certainly don't expect them to pay for a larger drive and then not advertise it as such, even if people don't understand it's exact usage. Some people might feel differently, but then I'd say there's far far worse blatantly deceptive adverts from equally reputable companies out there.

I love the worse offense argument. The liar points to the theif, who points to the murderer, who points to the genocidal barbarian.

Moral relativism is a wonderful way to try and end a discussion without ever really entering into it. Enron was worse than Microsoft.... now... back to the problem with hard drive space, and a simple set of questions:

Do you think that a few Joe Schmoes will have a beef with this issue in a year, once the non-initiated buy the console in droves? If so, do you think that this beef will be grounded? (one of my best puns this week, though it IS a Monday) And if not, do you think that it will affect the PR problem that MS could have on its hands?

I would personally answer Yes, No, Yes. I think that people will have a problem with this once they start trying to use the space for all that the Marketplace has to offer, and with growing music libraries. I think the problem is just slightly worse than most capacity-as-advertised problems. I think Microsoft could have a problem explaining this to future consumers.

My $0.02. I think where you fall in this thread depends on how you answer those three questions. Will a problem be percieved? Will it be justified? Does it matter?

[Ford Mustang]

I don't think it matters. If it plays games then cool. If it doesn't, I want my money back. I could care less if I can't put as much useless **** on it as people originally thought. It's not like I would fill up that space anyway.