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Batman_wanna_be
11-17-2006, 02:21 PM
Here are some screenshots - http://www.1up.com/do/media?cId=3144308

Sorry for the link on the pictures.

Throughout the course of our day at Bungie, the developers (without any coaxing from us) outlined some new features and design choices that would correct those Halo multiplayer flaws with Halo's multiplayer that I outlined in my previous article.
Weapon Spawn System Needs a Revamp
Then: Forgoing timed respawns on power weapons in favor of a control-based spawn system, Halo 2's power weapons stay in the hands of the team who grabs them, unless they empty the weapon or drop it. When the weapon is dropped, it idles and then despawns and respawns on a timer.

Fixed In Halo 3?: Tyson Green, multiplayer lead on Halo 3: "Weapon spawns have been rebuilt from the ground up." The reason the system was based simply on timers in Halo: Combat Evolved was because Bungie was still learning their way around the Xbox hardware. By the time Halo 2 was in development, Bungie could do more with the spawn system so in addition to the timers -- which sort of returned in Halo 2 -- the developers added the control-based mechanic.

While the specifics aren't locked down yet -- remember, the game is still a year away -- Bungie knows that the control-based system of Halo 2 can't remain the same. Without adding complete chaos to the model, Bungie is tinkering with adding random elements to the weapon respawning system. No, this doesn't mean that the spot you picked up an SMG will be where the Rocket Launcher appears, but instead, what if the Rocket Launcher spawned on a timer in two different places on the map? That could be a good start. What if the Rocket Launcher respawned on a timer and up to five of them could be on the map at the same time? That's a potential solution the developer is looking at with the rebuilt spawn system.

How It Could Change the Game: A level like Colossus is arguably unplayable with the current map set-up (the lone Beam Rifle at the top of the map refuses to respawn if someone is holding it). Imagine if every 90 seconds the Beam Rifle respawned either at the top of the map, or down where the Overshield currently spawns. Then, cap the amount of rifles that can be on the map at four total. Suddenly, six minutes into a match, there's four sniper rifles floating around the map and teams have to protect the weapon spawn, because if the other team grabs a beam rifle the tide can turn pretty suddenly.



Two Guns Are Not Better, Period
Then: When players spawned with an SMG, it was a mad scramble to find a secondary quickly, because if a player found someone who was dual wielding, they'd soon be watching the respawn timer.

Fixed in Halo 3?: The first step is admitting you have a problem. Bungie intended dual-wielding to be a novel, circumstantial gameplay mechanic, but it turned into the marquee: morphing Halo 2's multiplayer into a paper rock scissors pray and spray affair. The developer is setting out to fix that in Halo 3, and hoping to return dual-wielding to how they had hoped it would've been used in Halo 2.

Bungie's chief method for instigating this change is giving players a new starting weapon -- the MA5C Assault Rifle. With no zoom and no dual-wieldability, the Assault Rifle becomes (Bungie hopes) the quintessential starting weapon. They don't want players to feel powerless when the round begins (starting with a single SMG and the gimped pre-1.1 patch grenades did just that) and they want them to have a reason to seek out weapons like the Battle Rifle.

Additionally, Bungie has halved the amount of grenades players can carry. Instead of carrying four frags and four plasma grenades, now players can only carry two of each type of grenade. The catch? There's a third type of grenade now, the Spike Grenade. Still, that's a net loss of two grenades and the familiarity of how the Plasma and Frag 'nades work. The impetus behind this design choice is to keep players moving through the map -- it de-emphasizes camping, somewhat.

How It Could Change the Game: With less grenades in-hand, and more map canvassing required in order to keep those tossables stocked, Halo 3 could feel much more open than its predecessor. Couple that with a diminished emphasis on dual-wielding because of the revamped Assault Rifle and suddenly there will be times, places and situations for dual-wielding -- just the way Bungie wanted it to be.

Dude with the Yellow Bee Logo, Watch Out!
Then: While the symbol-system for identifying your teammates in Halo 2 was a great upgrade over previous ones, it was also a little hard to blurt out "Look out, guy with the Ninja Turtle icon!" before someone got erased in multiplayer.

Fixed in Halo 3?: To remedy the symbol confusion, Bungie is introducing a new system for identifying players in Halo 3. Tagged "Call Signs," Bungie's Spartans will still have customizable logos, but in-game, a call sign will replace the symbol above the players' heads. What's a call sign? In the pre-alpha builds we played it was a letter followed by two numbers -- mine was L75. Not currently customizable, Bungie assured us that when the game ships next year, the call signs will be just that.

Get ready for a rush of 14-year olds using "69" in their call sign.

How It Could Change the Game: Weapon spawns and a reduced importance on dual-wielding are pretty sweeping changes, but sometimes it's the little things that count. The addition of Call Signs will make communication with your teammates tons easier. Once we'd sorted out who everyone was (our numbers were assigned) it quickly became natural to use the call signs instead of tags.

Final Thoughts
Is Halo 3 the Halo we've been waiting for? Bungie certainly wants it to be. Is this the Halo multiplayer experience we've always wanted? If they incorporate what worked about both spawn systems, the shifting from zone to zone to protect and procure the power weapons and power-ups will return. Lower grenade counts could keep players cycling through the maps. Were these changes implemented into Halo 2 right now, there'd be an answer for what happens when teams go out into the water with both sniper rifles, two more sniper rifles would be available -- at that point, sitting in the water camping becomes a weakness, not a strength.

While we didn't include it above, the tracking on the plasma pistol has been severely reduced, while the "n00b combo" is still moderately effective, it is toned down considerably by the overall effectiveness of the retooled 32-round clip Assault Rifle.

I haven't messed around with a Rocket Launcher (hopefully the lock-on is reduced to an anti-air measure only, to counter the once-overpowered now-we-don't-know Banshees) but how the RL fares in Halo 3 will be another critical challenge that Halo 3's multiplayer faces.

There's a whole new sandbox of weapons -- the Brutes' "low brow, high tech" arsenal according to Design Lead Jaime Griesemer -- all of those will have to work within the existing context, but considering how little of the game's undeniably robust functionality we've played, that steps like this are being taken, points strongly to Halo 3's multiplayer being the best the series has seen.
Source 1up

So what do you guys think? Do you think the fixes are good or bad? What else would you like to see change?

J4320
11-17-2006, 05:02 PM
It's not too revealing, but it's cool to see some kind of update. The pictures are really good too.

Soda Jones
11-18-2006, 11:01 AM
Update from gamespot.com, the sword will have limited energy in Halo 3 multiplayer...

Lemon
11-18-2006, 11:10 AM
Did anyone else watch the video on 1up.com where they discussed 3 H3 maps? They all sound awesome, but snowbound sounds the greatest. it has these shield doors where you can see and walk through them but you cannot shoot through them, it would be great for oddball.

thatdude222
11-18-2006, 12:35 PM
no dual wielding please

l Maximus l
11-18-2006, 01:06 PM
Eventhough it's nice to see an Assault Rifle, I still don't think that Bungie understands that having a good starting weapon is critical. MLG was born due to the Battle Rifle being the starting weapon because it was closest to the Halo 1 pistol, the best overall weapons, but, certainly not the best in all situations.

If Bungie can get it through their heads that having the best overall weapon as a starting weapon is the best solution, in the meantime, I will be hunting down people who just respawned with an okay weapon and kill them with my superior weapon that I found (could be the BR, Pistol, or whatever).

The weapon respawn fix is crucial. Overall I'm glad to see that Bungie is admitting their faults in Halo 2. If they seriously would look back at what made Halo 1 so kick ass, they would figure out how to make Halo 3 a kick ass game.

In Halo 1, no one used the Assault Rifle. It was rarely used if anything and would be the first weapon I would trade out if I walked over a shotgun, a Rocket Launcher, or a Sniper. It's not that the Assault Rifle was a bad weapon - in fact, it was perfect because everyone had a kick ass weapon (The Pistol) but in close-up situations, the AR was better - also for melee attacks. But, it's also nice that everyone atleast got one power weapon (referring to the Pistol) and had a decent secondary weapon (the AR) so you can switch out the decent secondary weapon for a second power weapon (Sniper, Rocket Launcher, Shotgun).

The simplicity of Halo 1 made it great. I just hope Bungie goes back to basics. The super jumping ability in Halo 2 ruined it, I think. Halo 1 has a great jump - high enough to squat jump up to certain places, but, not so high that everyone is jumping all over the map (take Beaver Creek as an example where the jump button is extremely abused in Halo 2).

No fall damage in Halo 2 sucks. I'm sure this is going to remain since the sword is likely going to stay in Halo 3, albeit with a power meter (An improvement, but, no sword is the best improvement - unless it doesn't lunge). If the sword didn't lunge, it would be a great weapon, obviously in close up situations - like an overpowered melee.

I'm glad that the homing on the plasma pistol is being fixed - it severely needed it. The "noob combo" (BR and Plasma Pistol) almost single handidly ruined Halo 2, IMO - that was until BR starts came about.

Again, it's all about having a good starting weapon with Halo. That's what it boils down to. If Bungie would figure this out, Halo 3 could be sweet. Server lists would also be nice for XBL, so when Bungie screws up the starting weapon scenario, atleast we can make a good starting weapon and make the game better.

Jackyboy
11-18-2006, 03:55 PM
theres a 14 page article on halo 3 talking all about new maps and weapons. pick it up in the newstands well worth the money

thatdude222
11-18-2006, 05:34 PM
Eventhough it's nice to see an Assault Rifle, I still don't think that Bungie understands that having a good starting weapon is critical. MLG was born due to the Battle Rifle being the starting weapon because it was closest to the Halo 1 pistol, the best overall weapons, but, certainly not the best in all situations.

If Bungie can get it through their heads that having the best overall weapon as a starting weapon is the best solution, in the meantime, I will be hunting down people who just respawned with an okay weapon and kill them with my superior weapon that I found (could be the BR, Pistol, or whatever).

The weapon respawn fix is crucial. Overall I'm glad to see that Bungie is admitting their faults in Halo 2. If they seriously would look back at what made Halo 1 so kick ass, they would figure out how to make Halo 3 a kick ass game.

In Halo 1, no one used the Assault Rifle. It was rarely used if anything and would be the first weapon I would trade out if I walked over a shotgun, a Rocket Launcher, or a Sniper. It's not that the Assault Rifle was a bad weapon - in fact, it was perfect because everyone had a kick ass weapon (The Pistol) but in close-up situations, the AR was better - also for melee attacks. But, it's also nice that everyone atleast got one power weapon (referring to the Pistol) and had a decent secondary weapon (the AR) so you can switch out the decent secondary weapon for a second power weapon (Sniper, Rocket Launcher, Shotgun).

The simplicity of Halo 1 made it great. I just hope Bungie goes back to basics. The super jumping ability in Halo 2 ruined it, I think. Halo 1 has a great jump - high enough to squat jump up to certain places, but, not so high that everyone is jumping all over the map (take Beaver Creek as an example where the jump button is extremely abused in Halo 2).

No fall damage in Halo 2 sucks. I'm sure this is going to remain since the sword is likely going to stay in Halo 3, albeit with a power meter (An improvement, but, no sword is the best improvement - unless it doesn't lunge). If the sword didn't lunge, it would be a great weapon, obviously in close up situations - like an overpowered melee.

I'm glad that the homing on the plasma pistol is being fixed - it severely needed it. The "noob combo" (BR and Plasma Pistol) almost single handidly ruined Halo 2, IMO - that was until BR starts came about.

Again, it's all about having a good starting weapon with Halo. That's what it boils down to. If Bungie would figure this out, Halo 3 could be sweet. Server lists would also be nice for XBL, so when Bungie screws up the starting weapon scenario, atleast we can make a good starting weapon and make the game better.
i agree 95%, except for the fall damage. i feel that there was too much fall damage in halo 1, and too little in halo 2 (obviously), there should be something in between

Lemon
11-18-2006, 05:50 PM
i agree 95%, except for the fall damage. i feel that there was too much fall damage in halo 1, and too little in halo 2 (obviously), there should be something in between


i agree with you, too. in H1 you get hurt from jumping off of the battle creek bases, i thought that was too much. they should create fall damage from ridiculously high hights. although there might not be fall damage due to the fact that there are the cannons that shoot the player across the map.

Batman_wanna_be
11-19-2006, 12:28 AM
i agree with you, too. in H1 you get hurt from jumping off of the battle creek bases, i thought that was too much. they should create fall damage from ridiculously high hights. although there might not be fall damage due to the fact that there are the cannons that shoot the player across the map.

True you did but if you crouch before you hit the ground you can jump off the blue base in hang'em high and not get hurt.

I agree with you l Maximus l if the core of Halo 3 multiplayer is like Halo 1 it will kick ass. I like the way you had to play Halo 1 you had to be smart about fighting people you could not just run in and kill people on luck you had to have skill and Halo 2 put a stop to that with the run and gun like gameplay.

l Maximus l
11-19-2006, 12:38 AM
IMO, the fall damage was good in Halo 1. I mean, take Prisoner as an example, you could walk off of the third level, hit the ground, and you still can survive; however, your energy would be at or around 1 bar of health. I think there should be a penalty like this for people who make bold moves like that - it discourages camping.

I'm really happy to hear that dual wielding is going to be greatly fixed. It seriously needed it. Spray and pray was never Halo's feel.

I need to mention that I don't think that Halo 2 is a bad game because it's not. It was just a disappointment being a sequel to the great Halo 1. I mean, Halo 2 completely haulted LAN parties. I remember going to Halo 1 LANS all of the time - had tournaments - great times. I haven't even had the urge to even get a bunch of buddies over to play Halo 2 at all.

I just really hope that Halo 3 is good. I want it to be the game that makes owning a 360 alone. Though, I'm digging GoW right now....it's kick ass to play the Campaign on-line. I hope Halo 3 has that option, too (likely will - can't wait).

vman
11-19-2006, 10:46 AM
First off, Bungie is giving the AR an overhaul. Making it more powerful AND more accurate. They are also lowering the rounds per clip to 32.

Also, (this hasn't been confirmed) I think they are bringing back the pistol. But it will be a weaker version. Not as weak as the Halo2 magnum but still weaker. I have a feeling that it will be back but there will no longer be TSK. I think they will change that to FSK and maybe lower the zoom to 1.5x or 1x. Or perhaps lower the firing rate.<<<This is just what I am guessing because I saw the pistol on one of MC's legs in one of the pictures in that EGM article.

Great news about the sword having a battery now. Does anyone else feel like the mongoose is gonna be like 100x more fun to drive than going to disneyland? Also the man cannon will be one of those things that will add more strategy to the game. You can throw your grenades into it and explosive barrels. Also, if you get lucky, you can use it to mount a banshee and maybe a vehicle in the middle of the map.

l Maximus l
11-19-2006, 11:01 PM
I'm a little confused about TSK and FSK. I guess it's just late, but, I can't figure out the abbreviations.

But, anyway, Bungie will never understand that Halo 1 was perfect the way it was. Instead of taking things away from it or changing it, they should just add to it. Imagine Halo 1's gameplay while playing Halo 2. It would be so much more kick ass. Vehicle boarding should have been HUGE (Friendly or foe), but, it was hardly a good move in Halo 2.

Another peave I have about Halo 2 is that if you want to kill someone out of the vehicle, you have to destroy the vehicle since damage is based on the vehicle's damage. It should be based on the occupant's damage like it was in Halo 1.

The Pistol single handidly made Halo 1 the great game that it is. A weaker Pistol sucks, IMO.