RRoD syndrome may not only pertain to 360!!!

[CrazyCougar]

I found this a little amusing to say the least. We have all been plagued by the RRoD without 360's, but it seems that the PS3 has its own version of the problem now. Must be something about the next gen hardware i guess....

The "Red Ring of Death" affecting the Xbox 360 has been a nightmare for Microsoft. It has cost lot of money to the company, as it was forced to extend the system's warranty to cover this technical problem, which is rumored to have a failure rate as high as 16%. Most systems experiencing this glitch started to fail months after they were acquired, so it remains to be seen what would be the actual consequences of the RROD.

Now, the PlayStation 3, which shipped a year after the Xbox 360, may be the next system to experience a systemic hardware failure.

Threads describing an 80010514 error for the PS3 have started to pop up in different forums across the Internet. It seems this error is associated with a malfunction of the Blu-ray Disc drive, which wouldn't come as a surprise considering this next-gen optical disc technology is relatively new and it is still being developed and improved.

Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed...

[WillyV2]

I found this a little amusing to say the least. We have all been plagued by the RRoD without 360's, but it seems that the PS3 has its own version of the problem now. Must be something about the next gen hardware i guess....

The "Red Ring of Death" affecting the Xbox 360 has been a nightmare for Microsoft. It has cost lot of money to the company, as it was forced to extend the system's warranty to cover this technical problem, which is rumored to have a failure rate as high as 16%. Most systems experiencing this glitch started to fail months after they were acquired, so it remains to be seen what would be the actual consequences of the RROD.

Now, the PlayStation 3, which shipped a year after the Xbox 360, may be the next system to experience a systemic hardware failure.

Threads describing an 80010514 error for the PS3 have started to pop up in different forums across the Internet. It seems this error is associated with a malfunction of the Blu-ray Disc drive, which wouldn't come as a surprise considering this next-gen optical disc technology is relatively new and it is still being developed and improved.

Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed...

All I have to say is, good riddance to some Sony fanboys. Some of them laughed at the problems the 360 was having with their high rate of systems failing and now the shoe is on the other foot.

For the people that didn't ridicule Microsoft for faulty systems, well I hope your systems don't have this error described above.

[Mikewarrior]

This is BS... I've gone to many forums & the level of Ps3 failures are very minimal compared to 360s.. Even during 360s first 6 months there were far more failures than the PS3 after almost 1 1/2 years.

How about Microsoft fixes their crap before a Xbox site starts to talk crap on someone else?

It's completely wrong... It has nothing to do with the Blu-Ray drive & for jackass “Cesar" to write "Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed..." - Implying that this incorrect FUD about the Ps3 is what caused it, is the most ignorant attempt by someone at a game site ever.

The Ps3 forums are down because of maintenance... That's it.

[CrazyCougar]

Whoah, whoah, whoah son.

First off, its just an article posted. Secondly, you should remember that when the RRoD started to happen that many 360 followers refused to believe it was real or even a problem as you just stated in your post. It may very well not be a problem, but its funny how similiar the situation is starting out compared to the 360 debacle.

Sony supporters are just as quick to debunk this rumor as 360 supporters were to debunct the 360 rumor. You best hope history doesnt repoeat itself. But you seem awefully defensive on that matter, wonder if it touched a nerve.

[SmartarseV2]

People seem to get awfully worked up over Microsoft vs Sony, it's kinda sad. What happened to the simple times where people just got along? I say if you wanna participate in a real battle, help me get the top off my pudding can...the ring broke :crying: at least something will be accomplished at the end.


ridicule You give a person a little bit of post secondary education and look at the words he starts to use. How morose. But it's okay Willy, I still wanna kiss you all over, and over and again, until the night closes in....until the night closes in.

PS - Those finger paintings were awesome.

[WillyV2]

People seem to get awfully worked up over Microsoft vs Sony, it's kinda sad. What happened to the simple times where people just got along? I say if you wanna participate in a real battle, help me get the top off my pudding can...the ring broke :crying: at least something will be accomplished at the end.

You give a person a little bit of post secondary education and look at the words he starts to use. How morose. But it's okay Willy, I still wanna kiss you all over, and over and again, until the night closes in....until the night closes in.

PS - Those finger paintings were awesome.

Hey now, post secondary education has done wonders for me.

[CrazyCougar]

Did someone mention pudding???? Mmmmmmm, pudding.

[WillyV2]

Did someone mention pudding???? Mmmmmmm, pudding.

I think Smartarse has officially found a weakness of CrazyCougar!? I think so!

[Ainokeatoo]

This is BS... I've gone to many forums & the level of Ps3 failures are very minimal compared to 360s.. Even during 360s first 6 months there were far more failures than the PS3 after almost 1 1/2 years.

How about Microsoft fixes their crap before a Xbox site starts to talk crap on someone else?

It's completely wrong... It has nothing to do with the Blu-Ray drive & for jackass “Cesar" to write "Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed..." - Implying that this incorrect FUD about the Ps3 is what caused it, is the most ignorant attempt by someone at a game site ever.

The Ps3 forums are down because of maintenance... That's it.

What the hell man? We just got rid of one ****ing fan boy now another damn one? Jesus, it's a damn article, if you wanna complain, CC give this guy the link so he can complain there. So yeah, there is something wrong with the 360 obviously there is something wrong with the PS3, so what? It's not something to get so *****y about, I mean, damn.

[CrazyCougar]

I just found the article funny. Didnt expect backlash on XBA...LOL! But then again, seems to be a trend lately.

Weakness? I have no weakness!!!

Just cause I like pudding doesnt mean I have a weakness. I like pudding, thats all..... (starts to get the shakes)..... ;)

[BROOKLYNSBATMAN]

This is BS... I've gone to many forums & the level of Ps3 failures are very minimal compared to 360s.. Even during 360s first 6 months there were far more failures than the PS3 after almost 1 1/2 years.

How about Microsoft fixes their crap before a Xbox site starts to talk crap on someone else?

It's completely wrong... It has nothing to do with the Blu-Ray drive & for jackass “Cesar" to write "Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed..." - Implying that this incorrect FUD about the Ps3 is what caused it, is the most ignorant attempt by someone at a game site ever.

The Ps3 forums are down because of maintenance... That's it.

I think we hurt his feelings, :rofl::rofl:

[CrazyCougar]

I think we hurt his feelings, :rofl::rofl:

Of course he works for Sony, and can verify that all the information in that article is in fact false as well. He stated it was all untrue, and that the forums were down for maintenance as a fact, so he has to work for Sony to know that information right? My bad. :rolleyes:


This is BS... I've gone to many forums & the level of Ps3 failures are very minimal compared to 360s.. Even during 360s first 6 months there were far more failures than the PS3 after almost 1 1/2 years.

Hmmm, wonder about that though. If you proportion the ratio of units sold to the failures we may in fact have a similiar number. Seeing as though the PS3 probably hasnt sold as many units in the 1 1/2 years of existence, compared to the first 6 months of the 360. So that ratio is probably pretty close in failure rate.

None the less, I still found the article comical and leave it to someone to come on here and defend the PS3 to a hilt. I think we have all acknowledged the fact that the 360 has an issue. Now its time for the Sony boys to realize their machine and Blu-Ray may not be as perfect as Sony says it is.

[Not Pink]

Hmmm, wonder about that though. If you proportion the ratio of units sold to the failures we may in fact have a similiar number. Seeing as though the PS3 probably hasnt sold as many units in the 1 1/2 years of existence, compared to the first 6 months of the 360. So that ratio is probably pretty close in failure rate.

None the less, I still found the article comical and leave it to someone to come on here and defend the PS3 to a hilt. I think we have all acknowledged the fact that the 360 has an issue. Now its time for the Sony boys to realize their machine and Blu-Ray may not be as perfect as Sony says it is.

Shadapow! :hail:

[Mikewarrior]

None the less, I still found the article comical and leave it to someone to come on here and defend the PS3 to a hilt. I think we have all acknowledged the fact that the 360 has an issue. Now its time for the Sony boys to realize their machine and Blu-Ray may not be as perfect as Sony says it is.

This is a good response to you...I love when 360 ONLY having fanboys try to justify the massive RRoD failure rates by trying to call out the failure rates of other hardware:

1.) The 800150514 error does not occur ANYWHERE NEAR as often as the RRoD. If you think it does, you are delusional & it has NOTHING to do with the Blu-Ray drive! The PS3 has been out for over a year and only now are these stories starting to surface. When did we first hear about RRoD? Launch night? It's been 2.5 years and we're still hearing about RRoD. I'm on 360 number five. My roommates are both on 360 number three. My other good friends are all on at least number two. Most of us own PS3s as well, and so far, NONE of us have had any issues whatsoever.

2.) YOU CAN'T JUSTIFY FAILURE RATES WITH OTHER FAILURE RATES. I don't care if the PS3 has a 95% failure rate, the failure rate for 360 is still too high. We should be theoretically shooting for a failure rate of 0%, not a failure rate of "as long as we're less than or equal to the competition's % it's fine".

3.) For those of you that have had good experiences with MS customer support, I congratulate and envy you. My experiences have been anything but painless. I have had hardware issues with everything MS manufactured except the wireless adapter *knocks on wood*. I've had them lose track of my repaired console for weeks at a time. I've had a refurb unit die the second time I powered it on. This past year, my 360 has been in repairs for a total of four months. That's 1/3 of the year. That's unacceptable. So far, the only thing MS has done to "make it right" is keep sending me other flawed consoles.

4.) For the last time, MS is not doing any of us a favor with this three year warranty. They are doing it to save their own ass. (notice how they didn't start the warranty until some class action lawsuits started up? notice how they denied they were "outside of acceptable hardware failure rate standards" until some class action lawsuits started up? only to then release that there is AT LEAST a 33% failure rate on all consoles?) Where do you think MS would be WITHOUT the warranty? Would you have honestly gone through a third, fourth, and fifth repair if you had to keep shelling out $130 each time? Absolutely not. Secondly, a company that is replacing their own faulty products for free shouldn't be some sort of revolutionary kind gesture. They knowingly released a flawed product, so they f%#% better replace it at no charge. You guys are missing the point. It's not "oh don't complain about the hardware, they fix it for free;" it's "I can complain all I want because they still released a POS in the first place, and the issues still haven't been addressed."

5.) Two and a half years. It has been two and a half years since launch. Guess what? 360s are still dying on a regular basis. New ones, old ones, elites, pros, arcades, it doesn't matter. I remember at launch on these very forums, people were flamed for calling out the POS hardware. People told them that MS would have this ironed out blah blah it wouldn't be a big deal blah blah. If you had posted in that thread and said "In 2008, the RRoD issues will still be widespread" you would have been laughed out of the forum. Well, we're here. You can claim MS has some new processors that will eventually fix the problem, but until we can actually see a noticeable improvement that doesn't mean anything. The three year warranty expires next year. Are we still going to be having these issues? In one year's time, do you think MS can totally transition from millions of flawed consoles on the market to a respectable failure rate? Every person who's purchasing a 360 this year runs a heavy risk of their console RRoDing after the warranty is up. Are you going to start paying for repairs? I'm not. No way in hell. But there's no way these issues are going to be resolved by then. Too many 360s are on the market, and they keep sending even more flawed refurbs out to anyone who goes through with the repair process. We'll see what MS' stance is next summer when the backlash will start over again.

[BROOKLYNSBATMAN]

Of course he works for Sony, and can verify that all the information in that article is in fact false as well. He stated it was all untrue, and that the forums were down for maintenance as a fact, so he has to work for Sony to know that information right? My bad. :rolleyes:



Hmmm, wonder about that though. If you proportion the ratio of units sold to the failures we may in fact have a similar number. Seeing as though the PS3 probably hasnt sold as many units in the 1 1/2 years of existence, compared to the first 6 months of the 360. So that ratio is probably pretty close in failure rate.

None the less, I still found the article comical and leave it to someone to come on here and defend the PS3 to a hilt. I think we have all acknowledged the fact that the 360 has an issue. Now its time for the Sony boys to realize their machine and Blu-Ray may not be as perfect as Sony says it is.

You know what, I have 5 Reasons why No one should ever own a ps3, it's nice that your a fan of ps3 really very nice... but here you go fan boy and addicts enjoy.. http://www.gameklip.net/video/1371
Now keep up with me fan boy, you got to see and hear my opinion sir.. I listened to your ramble lol.. for most of the time but here you go...
http://www.gameklip.net/video/1365

now I think by using ps3's recent day best and xbox 360 if you noticed used there none hyped games (with the exclusion of halo3) which lets face it took your ps SONYS manhood of rain and power in one little year with the release 2... but the point is the guy who made that used the most mediocre games, for the xbox 360 and it stilled looked better than snake or w/e the retard with the bandanas name is, by just using ghost recon.. sad but true, yeah we got more rings of death, but thats external can be changed and fixed, i survived 3 months with it, i moved on and so can anyone in this room but It would kill me if i paid 600 to 800 dollars to play games on ps3 only to know and hear, that xbox 360 is better in every aspect and then to be showed that it is. must kill you... "BURNS DOESNT IT"

[Ainokeatoo]

now I think by using ps3's recent day best and xbox 360 if you noticed used there none hyped games (with the exclusion of halo3) which lets face it took your ps SONYS manhood of rain and power in one little year with the release 2... but the point is the guy who made that used the most mediocre games, for the xbox 360 and it stilled looked better than snake or w/e the retard with the bandanas name is, by just using ghost recon.. sad but true, yeah we got more rings of death, but thats external can be changed and fixed, i survived 3 months with it, i moved on and so can anyone in this room but It would kill me if i paid 600 to 800 dollars to play games on ps3 only to know and hear, that xbox 360 is better in every aspect and then to be showed that it is. must kill you... "BURNS DOESNT IT"

That post put it better than I could explain.

[LiquidX]

All I know is I bought my first 360 4 months after launch and have not had one single problem with it... Until I decided to make it "special" and play on Xbox Live and get it banned during the Halo 3 beta. It still works fine with no red rings however!

I then bought an Elite. Which still works 100% without problems, and looks sexier.

I can think of 7 friends right off the top of my head that have had 360's for around a year or more, and no RRoD. One Halo Edition, the rest normal.

I'm pretty damn sure the problems have been addressed, Microsoft is not going to chance losing profits and more importantly bad publicity from not addressing faulty hardware. They have the money to fix the problems. I'm sure they did.

But Sony has no problems to fix right? Theres not a chance that anything would ever go wrong after using one of their highly technical products, with a NEW media technology for hours upon hours is there? I mean the PS2 was perfect and didn't give disc read errors because of a stupid little laser adjustment cog in the drive did it? There was never a class action lawsuit against Sony for the PS2 either... because their products are perfect!

[WillyV2]

This is BS... I've gone to many forums & the level of Ps3 failures are very minimal compared to 360s.. Even during 360s first 6 months there were far more failures than the PS3 after almost 1 1/2 years.

How about Microsoft fixes their crap before a Xbox site starts to talk crap on someone else?

It's completely wrong... It has nothing to do with the Blu-Ray drive & for jackass “Cesar" to write "Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed..." - Implying that this incorrect FUD about the Ps3 is what caused it, is the most ignorant attempt by someone at a game site ever.

The Ps3 forums are down because of maintenance... That's it.

Opinions, they are great.

Calm down, seriously.

[CrazyCougar]

I dont think I ever once said that the 360 failure rate was acceptable. As a matter of fact, in most posts concerning the RRoD I condemn MS for their manufacturering debacle.

Quite defensive arent we? :whistle:

[SmartarseV2]

The color of your skin don't matter to me
As long as we can live in harmony.

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?


I think WAR says it best. What if this isn't even about system errors? From what I can see this is a race war. The black, smooth, shiny finish on the PS3, vs the white matte of the 360 (in some cases black or olive). Some people hate the white "Oh the 360 gets RRoD...blah blah its garbage" Others rag on the black "PS3 suxorz, system error, blu-ray is gay-ray"

Be ashamed. Who really gives a rats patookus?

P.S. - Turns out I had the can upside down...the ring was on the other side.

[Variation-XBA]

It's somewhat amusing to me, as the major failrate of the original ps2's were because of the drives within about a year. Yet people forget the def #'s on those.

Sucks that it's happening to those people though.

[BROOKLYNSBATMAN]

I dont think I ever once said that the 360 failure rate was acceptable. As a matter of fact, in most posts concerning the RRoD I condemn MS for their manufacturering debacle.

Quite defensive arent we? :whistle:

I can vouch for that you can find what you put, on my post of It happened again, and you where one of the people that thought what happened to me was Bull****, ..

[Mikewarrior]

It's somewhat amusing to me, as the major failrate of the original ps2's were because of the drives within about a year. Yet people forget the def #'s on those.

Sucks that it's happening to those people though.

I didn't forget... I despised Sony for those issues & now that dislike has turned on Microsoft by being far worse a problem

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2008/02/smallish_redpumpkin.jpg

[Steeps5]

it does seem like its becoming less of a problem since the failure rate has gone down to 17% from like 33%

[Mikewarrior]

it does seem like its becoming less of a problem since the failure rate has gone down to 17% from like 33%

From what I've heard from most people... is that the newer 360s are just lasting longer than the launch units, but they still fail at a high % when that time comes.

It makes perfect sense... Microsoft still hasn't addressed the real issue with 360 failures *GPU* They redesigned the CPU, but the GPU was left untouched... Microsoft has known about this issue before the 360 even launched & thought they could fix it fast... Well 2 1/2 years later it's still happening.

[Ainokeatoo]

From what I've heard from most people... is that the newer 360s are just lasting longer than the launch units, but they still fail at a high % when that time comes.


That's funny, hm, I wonder my launch 360 still works, gah, must be a bug right?

[CrazyCougar]

From what I've heard from most people... is that the newer 360s are just lasting longer than the launch units, but they still fail at a high % when that time comes.



It makes perfect sense... Microsoft still hasn't addressed the real issue with 360 failures *GPU* They redesigned the CPU, but the GPU was left untouched... Microsoft has known about this issue before the 360 even launched & thought they could fix it fast... Well 2 1/2 years later it's still happening.



Hmm, thats odd...The new systems have been only out for 8 months, so how can anyone make an assumption that they are lasting longer since it seems many of the older 360's usually fair after a full year.

MS knew about the issue? Wow, do you get to sit in on board meetings with MS that you are privy to this information. I'm impressed.

[SamSmith]

This is BS... I've gone to many forums & the level of Ps3 failures are very minimal compared to 360s.. Even during 360s first 6 months there were far more failures than the PS3 after almost 1 1/2 years.

How about Microsoft fixes their crap before a Xbox site starts to talk crap on someone else?

It's completely wrong... It has nothing to do with the Blu-Ray drive & for jackass “Cesar" to write "Interestedly, at the time of this writing the PlayStation.com forums are temporarily closed..." - Implying that this incorrect FUD about the Ps3 is what caused it, is the most ignorant attempt by someone at a game site ever.

The Ps3 forums are down because of maintenance... That's it.

The thread was started as it suggested a mildly humerous sense of irony.

Nobody likes fanboys here. Xbox or not.

Careful on now, son.

[Ainokeatoo]

From what I've heard from most people... is that the newer 360s are just lasting longer than the launch units, but they still fail at a high % when that time comes.

It makes perfect sense... Microsoft still hasn't addressed the real issue with 360 failures *GPU* They redesigned the CPU, but the GPU was left untouched... Microsoft has known about this issue before the 360 even launched & thought they could fix it fast... Well 2 1/2 years later it's still happening.

You know? You act like you know how to fix the problem, why not scoot yourself on down to MS and go fix it for them? It sure sounds like they need the help.

[Not Pink]

You know? You act like you know how to fix the problem, why not scoot yourself on down to MS and go fix it for them? It sure sounds like they need the help.

It's because they're shutting him
down harder than we are.

I'd like to see sources backing up
your arguements, Mikewarrior.
Please post links to where you're
getting your information from,
rather than saying "Microsoft knew
this" and "most people say this".

Sources such as:
www.ps3fanboys.com (http://www.ps3fanboys.com) and
www.360haters.com (http://www.360haters.com) don't count.

[Mikewarrior]

Hmm, thats odd...The new systems have been only out for 8 months, so how can anyone make an assumption that they are lasting longer since it seems many of the older 360's usually fair after a full year.

MS knew about the issue? Wow, do you get to sit in on board meetings with MS that you are privy to this information. I'm impressed.

No, launch 360s started to die the day they launched... I remember being on many forums seeing all the 360 issues.

Here's your link! - http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/129866.asp

Q: Of all five videogame systems on the market now (PS3, PSP, PS2, DS, Wii and 360)only the Xbox 360 has had such major hardware failure problems. Microsoft being the only company based in the US making a videogame system. What part of Microsoft's way of doing things do you think caused this situation to happen.
First, MS has under resourced that product unit in all engineering areas since the very beginning. Especially in engineering support functions like test, quality, manufacturing, and supplier management. There just weren't enough people to do the job that needed to be done. The leadership in many of those areas was also lopsided in essential skills and experience. But I hear they are really trying to staff up now based on what has happened, and how cheap staff is compared to a couple of billion in cost of quality.

Second, MS was so focused on beating Sony this cycle that the 360 was rushed to market when all indications were that it had serious flaws. The design qual testing was insufficient and incomplete when the product was released to production. The manufacturing test equipment had major gaps in test coverage and wasn't reliable or repeatable. Manufacturing processes at eall levels of suppliers were immature and not in control. Initial end to end yields were in the mid 30%. Low yields always indicate serious design and manufacturing defects. Management chose to continue to ship anyways, and keep the lines running while trying to solve problems and bring the yields up. Whenever something failed and there was a question about whether the test result was false, they would remove that test, retest and ship, or see if the unit would boot a game and run briefly and then ship. 360 is too complex of a machine to get away with that.

In the end I think it was fear of failure, ambition to beat Sony, and the arrogance that they could figure anything out, that led to the decision to keep shipping. That management team had made some pretty bad decisions in the past and had never had to pay a proportional consequence. I'm sure they thought that somehow they would figure it out and everything would end up ok. Plus, they tend to make big decisions like that in terms of dollars. They would rationalize that if the first few million boxes had a high failure rate, a few 10's of millions of dollars would cover it. And contrasting that cost with a big lead on Sony, would pay it in a heartbeat. They weren't even thinking about Nintendo.

Compare that to Sony, who delayed their launch, even though they were behind, when their box wasn't ready.

Q: In your opinion what do you think the main cause of the Red Ring of Death failures have been?
RROD is caused by anything that fails in the "digital backbone" on the mother board. Also known as a core digital error. CPU, GPU, memory, etc. Bad parts, incompatible parts (timing problems) bad manufacturing process (like solder joints), misapplied heat sinks or thermal interface material, missing parts, broken parts, parts of the wrong value, missed test coverage. Any one or more, on any chip, or many other discrete components, would cause this. And many of the failures were obviously infant mortality, where they work when they leave the factory and fail early in use. The main design flaw was the excessive heat on the GPU warping the mother board around it. This would stress the solder joints on the GPU and any bad joints would then fail in early life.

Now go cry, or hate me because you don't want to open your eyes.

[BROOKLYNSBATMAN]

No, launch 360s started to die the day they launched... I remember being on many forums seeing all the 360 issues.

Here's your link! - http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/129866.asp

Q: Of all five video game systems on the market now (PS3, PSP, PS2, DS, Wii and 360)only the Xbox 360 has had such major hardware failure problems. Microsoft being the only company based in the US making a video game system. What part of Microsoft's way of doing things do you think caused this situation to happen.
First, MS has under resourced that product unit in all engineering areas since the very beginning. Especially in engineering support functions like test, quality, manufacturing, and supplier management. There just weren't enough people to do the job that needed to be done. The leadership in many of those areas was also lopsided in essential skills and experience. But I hear they are really trying to staff up now based on what has happened, and how cheap staff is compared to a couple of billion in cost of quality.

Second, MS was so focused on beating Sony this cycle that the 360 was rushed to market when all indications were that it had serious flaws. The design qual testing was insufficient and incomplete when the product was released to production. The manufacturing test equipment had major gaps in test coverage and wasn't reliable or repeatable. Manufacturing processes at all levels of suppliers were immature and not in control. Initial end to end yields were in the mid 30%. Low yields always indicate serious design and manufacturing defects. Management chose to continue to ship anyways, and keep the lines running while trying to solve problems and bring the yields up. Whenever something failed and there was a question about whether the test result was false, they would remove that test, retest and ship, or see if the unit would boot a game and run briefly and then ship. 360 is too complex of a machine to get away with that.

In the end I think it was fear of failure, ambition to beat Sony, and the arrogance that they could figure anything out, that led to the decision to keep shipping. That management team had made some pretty bad decisions in the past and had never had to pay a proportional consequence. I'm sure they thought that somehow they would figure it out and everything would end up OK. Plus, they tend to make big decisions like that in terms of dollars. They would rationalize that if the first few million boxes had a high failure rate, a few 10's of millions of dollars would cover it. And contrasting that cost with a big lead on Sony, would pay it in a heartbeat. They weren't even thinking about Nintendo.

Compare that to Sony, who delayed their launch, even though they were behind, when their box wasn't ready.

Q: In your opinion what do you think the main cause of the Red Ring of Death failures have been?
RROD is caused by anything that fails in the "digital backbone" on the mother board. Also known as a core digital error. CPU, GPU, memory, etc. Bad parts, incompatible parts (timing problems) bad manufacturing process (like solder joints), misapplied heat sinks or thermal interface material, missing parts, broken parts, parts of the wrong value, missed test coverage. Any one or more, on any chip, or many other discrete components, would cause this. And many of the failures were obviously infant mortality, where they work when they leave the factory and fail early in use. The main design flaw was the excessive heat on the GPU warping the mother board around it. This would stress the solder joints on the GPU and any bad joints would then fail in early life.

Now go cry, or hate me because you don't want to open your eyes.[/QUOTE]

I don't get it, are you trying deliberately make us feel bad for buying a 360, cause it's had a past high failure rate, because if you are you own one yourself.(so pot.kettle..black my friend) Now if your trying to say PS3 is a better machine, your wrong there too. here you go,http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992845
thats one testimonial,of a person in a forum who bought his ps3 and 2 1/2 months later it faultied the game, cause you see the reason why you don't see, ps3 having a bunch of failure "rate" is for something who every, tech guy knows about is called a wake-death, which is when something is able to go on, but allow no function lets say unreadable play disc, except ps3 is flawed and cant single out specifics in its technology,so they created several names for different problem so no one has a name hence the rings allow us simple gamers and adults to understand the problem a lot faster to costumer support could help us a lot easier, and when asked to talk to Sony most of my friends thats about 4 people in my life who bought a ps3 and 3 of them had to send it back for, a wake-death like my friend in the forum, lets see one of them couldn't read game disc's every time he shut down that P.O.S and restarted it couldn't read the disc off the bat, now you gotta ask yourself one question in PS3's life time has it had success yet, not much I'm not gonna get into a video game war with you cause we'd win see my post in another thread to know 5 reason why not to own one and yes to xbox... sorry i cant say ps3 too long i get sick, anyhow back to the point, our system not yours cause your a fan boy, but our system,(addicts) has been out longer, met on time on its release, people and machine are not perfect failures will happen at least I can say xbox didn't do this to people ,
Updates 4 & 5: IGN confirms PS3 worldwide launch in November for "the North American, Asian, and European territories." In addition, Sony will release "one million units per month [after launch; sorry for any confusion this may have caused] with a total of six million units in 2006 alone. Production numbers are higher for PS1 and PS2 in their initial years." Update 18: The 6M unit total will "be produced in Fiscal Year 2006 (through March 2007)."
Nov 2006 you say you did that for the optical expansion your gonna have, that will make failure rates lesser than the xbox, THATS WHY YOU COULDN'T HAVE YOUR RELEASE PARTY IN MARCH LIKE YOU PROMISED PEOPLE WHO PRE-ORDERED or is it just that your still just a new kid on the block while xbox has been sold for about A year at that point, so here is some simple math for you, most people cant afford 600 to 800 dollars only to have this happen to them, http://ps3.qj.net/Video-PS3-dies-after-yellow-light-of-death/pg/49/aid/111969, lets see if you could sell this many in that short amount of time i think ps3 failure rate would be the one on the spot,http://kotaku.com/374618/xbox-360-edging-on-2-million-UK-sales notice thats just the uk sales, in that short amount of time, oh man i can do this all day to ya with website after website here you go a lil preview( of how stupid we can keep this up for and you still wont get it to the addicts who read this very long post of mine I'm sorry but biased fan boys don't get it until, you show them several times the outcome, i guess they cant come to realize that they wasted 600 dollars on a blue ray player with some capabilities of playing games lol!!! its the truth fan boy read on I HAVE FACTS AS U SO NEED!)
http://www.hardcoreware.net/playstation-3-vs-xbox-360-one-year-later/ (make sure to read most of the comments posted by people who prefer the xbox over ps3 anyways, and here you go who in a year since launch was the better system.. ( so it seems wow look at that play station is better?<~~:ROFL: than the xbox on everything except being a video game system :ROFL:)--however read the comments..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HJBIJhKOTA&feature=related
and the winner is!!!!!!
see I have come to realize what you are my friend, your an angry, annoyed, fan boy who has nothing to play with on the ps3,who had the money to buy both because lets face it the line-up is so weak,I'd buy an xbox while i wait in that lonely corner for something worth playing and paying 600 dollars for.but then you realize its not even likable or gonna happen, there is nothing worth playing and paying that amount for a ps3 but its okay i hope you enjoy your spider man 3 on blue ray,
i understand you fan boy, cause you see, I'd be pissed off on this fact alone
* almost 800 dollars including games of course cause then it be 600 dollars right that's how much it cost cause i can watch blue-ray and almost see a difference between blue ray and hd DVD oh well yeah thats why... :confused:
and still no damn!! games like halo3,Gears of war,Mass effect, etc.. etc... I'm not gonna keep going.. man every game that comes out for both system hmmm some how is preferred over ps3's version why well it's simple yours is a over priced DVD player with capabilities of playing games...
OURS
is a video game system!!!!!!!!!
with capabilities of playing movies..., perhaps you'd like to go into marketplace and rent one of our very lovely movies and see a difference or perhaps a nice show, now i own a blue ray player witch i bought on ebay for 350 dollars, and i gotta tell you no freaking difference, to me my TV- and surround sound make the diffrence... not the format. what blue ray is a inch above hd wooow!!! .. lol

well my very long point is, i just did this big post with websites facts and testimonials, shown you which is the better console however your gonna replay and still say "no ps3 xbox has failrates"

so here you go it's the start of the end for ps3's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dPU6ZVJELM&feature=related at least mine has a lot better games and a incredible on line, while yours well... ouch
600
lack of games
i can play blue ray (is the only thing you got going for yourself)<~:ROFL:
and you still have to wait for your so called great games to drop...
just one thing though if you feel this way, ur a ps3 fan on a xbox forum talking about how great the xbox is at some points and then you turn around n say the xbox this the xbox that, you do realize how hypocritical you are right.., i myself give props to some games that sony has exclusively (not for long) but you own both!! and your on a addict to xbox website, your angry about your money being wrongfully spent.... now with that said your advise was...
Now go cry, or hate me because you don't want to open your eyes.[/ I think you need to open your eyes friend... now feel free to respond cause as i said Sony fans just don't understand... :cool:

[Not Green]

"An error occurred during the start operation. 80010514"

Since this error occurred, we obviously contacted Sony Support. We were informed that the code is not common, and a simple reset of the system, and restoral of factory settings should do the trick. Unfortunately, after the restoral, the error still occurred. So, we dug a bit further, and this is what we found.

The error code is actually one of two things, a) a faulty sector on the internal hard drive, or b) a faulty installation of software/firmware, both iterations actually coincide with eachother. If the hard drive suffers a faulty sector ( a section of damaged space on the drive that data may have been written to that no longer is readable), an installation may still be processed, and even work, but the error can cause some serious side effects, such as option b. If your PS3 has installed an item incorrectly, including firmware, it is in high risk of receiving this error.

Basically, what is occuring is the corruption of game disc recognition and execution. If you will notice, in 90% of all cases, the drive will still play DVD and even Blu Ray movies with no problems. When trying to start a game however, the title, sooner or later, will receive the error."

Source: http://gamerevolver.com/article-114-PS3-Error-80010514-explained.html

Instead of addressing Microsoft's problems, maybe you should check out Sony's. Maybe we should make a " Sony Products that didn't live up to expectations " thread. :hump:

[BROOKLYNSBATMAN]

"An error occurred during the start operation. 80010514"

Since this error occurred, we obviously contacted Sony Support. We were informed that the code is not common, and a simple reset of the system, and restoral of factory settings should do the trick. Unfortunately, after the restoral, the error still occurred. So, we dug a bit further, and this is what we found.

The error code is actually one of two things, a) a faulty sector on the internal hard drive, or b) a faulty installation of software/firmware, both iterations actually coincide with eachother. If the hard drive suffers a faulty sector ( a section of damaged space on the drive that data may have been written to that no longer is readable), an installation may still be processed, and even work, but the error can cause some serious side effects, such as option b. If your PS3 has installed an item incorrectly, including firmware, it is in high risk of receiving this error.

Basically, what is occuring is the corruption of game disc recognition and execution. If you will notice, in 90% of all cases, the drive will still play DVD and even Blu Ray movies with no problems. When trying to start a game however, the title, sooner or later, will receive the error."

Source: http://gamerevolver.com/article-114-PS3-Error-80010514-explained.html

Instead of addressing Microsoft's problems, maybe you should check out Sony's. Maybe we should make a " Sony Products that didn't live up to expectations " thread. :hump:

Thats an easy thread it would go like this,

playstation 1 promised to be better than the dreamcast, it wasn’t.
playstation 2 promised to be better than the xbox, lol yeah they tried can we say halo 2 xbox live..
playstation 3 promised to be a higher superior machine than the xbox 360, flawless in every way... lol:rofl: yeaaaaaaaaaahhh thats not going to good for them huh..

[Not Green]

Thats an easy thread it would go like this,

playstation 1 promised to be better than the dreamcast, it wasn’t.
playstation 2 promised to be better than the xbox, lol yeah they tried can we say halo 2 xbox live..
playstation 3 promised to be a higher superior machine than the xbox 360, flawless in every way... lol:rofl: yeaaaaaaaaaahhh thats not going to good for them huh..

Basically I would just write:

Sony Gaming Products Haven't lived up to expectations. :rofl: