Class action lawsuit against ms!

[Symmetric-XBA]

Wow, we knew it would have happened eventually. Apparently MS is being hit with a class-action lawsuit!

MS Class Action Lawsuit (http://dailygamesnews.com/2008/10/microsoft-hit-with-california-class.html)

"Microsoft are facing a lawsuit, brought under California's consumer protection statutes, was filed in the Sacramento County Superior Court. The lawsuit alleges that an excessive number of Xbox 360 consoles have failed, resulting in what is commonly known in the gaming community as the "red ring of death". The lawsuit further alleges that Microsoft concealed the excessive failure rate of its Xbox 360 consoles in order to compete with the pending launch of Sony's Playstation 3 and Nintendo's Wii gaming systems.

The lawsuit cites to a number of recent articles published in gaming trade journals and on popular websites including dailygamesnews.com, VentureBeat, Digital Media and Yahoo! Those articles contend that Microsoft knew as far back as November 2005 that over 50% of the Xbox 360 consoles involved in the initial sales launch were defective.

The class action lawsuit seeks an order that Microsoft disgorge all profits attributable to its sale of the Xbox 360, as well as that Microsoft publicly announce and implement a refund program in California."

So not only does MS loose over a BILLION dollars b/c of $***y consoles, but now this. This is REALLY going to hurt MS and the future of their next console. Imagine having to give refunds (now of course at the lower price), but still that would cripple their profit margins when you're talking anywhere between $200-$400 per refunded console. Ouch MS, at least however gamers are stepping up and putting their foot down.

[LINKINPARK8591]

man like they didn't see this coming at some point. This is going to put a huge dent in MS's Side.

[GamerSince'76]

It was gamers complaining that brought about the 3 year RRoD warranty. IMHO this is a good thing, MS knowingly released a defective console. MS should be exchanging defective consoles over the counter. OK your 360 broke here is a replacement.

[CrazyCougar]

There have been a few class action lawsuits already against MS that have been thrown out in court. I would expect the same from this one as well. MS is not one I would want to go up against in court.

[LeThAl REMiX]

There have been a few class action lawsuits already against MS that have been thrown out in court. I would expect the same from this one as well. MS is not one I would want to go up against in court.

Oh me neither. They probably pay their lawyers a lot more than I could pay mine. There large sum of money vs my crappy $300 a week. I don't think so.

[GamerSince'76]

There have been a few class action lawsuits already against MS that have been thrown out in court. I would expect the same from this one as well. MS is not one I would want to go up against in court.

Yeah that's true. This has happened before.

What's funny is there is this underground cult type following that has huge detailed discussions on the official site about the Falcon, Jasper, Opus and Valhalla motherboards. Sure the 360 is the best gaming console but peop,le have to worry about this needless crap and they shouldn't have to.

[Symmetric-XBA]

Yeah that's true. This has happened before.

What's funny is there is this underground cult type following that has huge detailed discussions on the official site about the Falcon, Jasper, Opus and Valhalla motherboards. Sure the 360 is the best gaming console but peop,le have to worry about this needless crap and they shouldn't have to.

I just don't see why MS has to constantly upgrade the motherboard and cpu/gpu. Why didn't they just do the proper development ahead of time and develop a product that wasn't shotty. Granted the 360 has the best game lineup, however, you have to have a working system to play these games. lol Now w/ the last 2 versions of the 360 coming out it makes me wonder if MS has learned their lesson or are we going to see a similar trend w/ the next console from MS? Valhalla is supposed to be the last version of the 360 to be released before the new console and that won't even start being put into production till aug. of 09, so why then wouldn't MS just release the Valhalla and forget all these other versions? It reminds me a little bit of Sega when they had their Sega-CD, then it went through multiple versions and eventually became the dreamcast. I mean seriously though, how many versions of the 360 is MS going to put out there b/c all its doing is wasting company money by doing this. It costs a TON of money to release all these new versions, so just do it right one time and then you don't have to worry.

[GamerSince'76]

I just don't see why MS has to constantly upgrade the motherboard and cpu/gpu. Why didn't they just do the proper development ahead of time and develop a product that wasn't shotty. Granted the 360 has the best game lineup, however, you have to have a working system to play these games. lol Now w/ the last 2 versions of the 360 coming out it makes me wonder if MS has learned their lesson or are we going to see a similar trend w/ the next console from MS? Valhalla is supposed to be the last version of the 360 to be released before the new console and that won't even start being put into production till aug. of 09, so why then wouldn't MS just release the Valhalla and forget all these other versions? It reminds me a little bit of Sega when they had their Sega-CD, then it went through multiple versions and eventually became the dreamcast. I mean seriously though, how many versions of the 360 is MS going to put out there b/c all its doing is wasting company money by doing this. It costs a TON of money to release all these new versions, so just do it right one time and then you don't have to worry.

Agreed. PC owners by the nature of the beast worry about components and upgrading, this shouldn't be a concern for console gamers. MS put out a shoddy console and should be held accountable.

That's why I bought a 3 year extended warranty. When it breaks for the next 4 years, MS will fix it for free.

[Ainokeatoo]

I don't know if I can agree, all of their consoles would have been defective if they 'knew' it was broken. But my launch console was just fine for a whole three years, it only recently got rrod then we sent it in got it back a few weeks later all fixed for free. I agree that they did a ****ty job of making them, I don't agree that they 'knew' it was fuxed up.

lol MS was involved in many lawsuits against them XD mostly because of little Bill trying to monopolize the market a few years back.

[Symmetric-XBA]

lol yeah but when your company looses a billion dollars not b/c of lawsuits but b/c you have to keep shelling out replacement systems to ppl who send theirs in b/c its broken, then yeah maybe a little more time on the R&D side would have saved MS a billion, but they wanted to be the "first" so I guess when you rush the development, expect problems.

[GamerSince'76]

MS had to have known. If turn them on at our homes and they are dead out of the box then they must have been dead on the assembly line too.

More on this:

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/xbox-360-defects-an-inside-history-of-microsofts-video-game-console-woes/

[Ainokeatoo]

MS had to have known. If turn them on at our homes and they are dead out of the box then they must have been dead on the assembly line too.

More on this:

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/xbox-360-defects-an-inside-history-of-microsofts-video-game-console-woes/

That does nothing but reinforce the opinion, he does nothing to provide facts that the 360 was dead on the assembly line. He states it but does not provide facts to back it up.



I asked Microsoft to confirm or deny 35 different facts contained in this story. Instead, I received a formal statement from a Microsoft spokesperson, saying the company had already acknowledged an “unacceptable number of repairs” to Xbox 360 consoles and responded to the hardware failures with a free replacement program. The statement also said, “This topic has already been covered extensively in the media. This new story repeats old information, and contains rumors and innuendo from anonymous sources, attempting to create a new sensational angle, and is highly irresponsible.”

Not only is that paragraph incorrect, but it wasn't a very smart thing to do in the first place. First, MS was true in their word, it would be highly irresponsible to do such a thing. Second, a fact can not be verified, if it's a fact then it has already been verified, therefore things mentioned in his story that do not provide substantial proof are both opinions, and circumstantial evidence.

Maybe give me a link to something that could tell me *with facts* that MS knowingly did this or it's an invalid issue =/ I dunno, I personally don't believe they had knowledge of this, or knowing how much hell MS is in now, they wouldn't have done this. **** happens, sometime it's unavoidable, it was poor manufacturing that was the error and they're paying for it. It wasn't a secret scandal to released fuxed up consoles on purpose, it just happened. At least they're taking measures to fix this.

[GamerSince'76]

That does nothing but reinforce the opinion, he does nothing to provide facts that the 360 was dead on the assembly line. He states it but does not provide facts to back it up.



Not only is that paragraph incorrect, but it wasn't a very smart thing to do in the first place. First, MS was true in their word, it would be highly irresponsible to do such a thing. Second, a fact can not be verified, if it's a fact then it has already been verified, therefore things mentioned in his story that do not provide substantial proof are both opinions, and circumstantial evidence.

Maybe give me a link to something that could tell me *with facts* that MS knowingly did this or it's an invalid issue =/ I dunno, I personally don't believe they had knowledge of this, or knowing how much hell MS is in now, they wouldn't have done this. **** happens, sometime it's unavoidable, it was poor manufacturing that was the error and they're paying for it. It wasn't a secret scandal to released fuxed up consoles on purpose, it just happened. At least they're taking measures to fix this.

Link:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/86140

"While Microsoft has never released official numbers, Takahashi quotes "several sources" as saying the failure rate at the company's Chinese manufacturers in the early days of production was 68 percent - 68 machines out of every 100 that came off the line were defective. The initial yield on the 360's IBM-built CPU was even worse: only 16 out of every 100 chips produced actually worked".

I agree that as gamers we don't have much to go on. MS has never released the percentage and with it obviously being so high why would they. That's why there are so many gamers trying towel tricks and cooling devices to fix their 360's. All sadly futile.

[CrazyCougar]

A lot of this had to do with MS's desire to be the first console ont he market and get a huge jump on Sony. Which they did and it seems to have worked despite the losses they have taken and the digruntled console owners they have accumulated. When the time was right, the 3 year warranty came about, but I can guarantee you that they knew about this problem long before that came about. Did they know at the console launch date? No, I highly doubt it.

[Symmetric-XBA]

A lot of this had to do with MS's desire to be the first console ont he market and get a huge jump on Sony. Which they did and it seems to have worked despite the losses they have taken and the digruntled console owners they have accumulated. When the time was right, the 3 year warranty came about, but I can guarantee you that they knew about this problem long before that came about. Did they know at the console launch date? No, I highly doubt it.

Did MS know ahead of time that there were better cpu/gpu chipsets that could be implimented to bennefit the 360? Most def. yes, otherwise, why would they release a total of 5 different versions of the 360? Since that point is fact, then the question boils down to neglegence on MS. If they knew ahead of time that this technology would be available and if they had waited to do proper r&d instead of trying to get a "jump" on sony and nintendo, then none of this would be an issue. You say it had success, but I find it hard to believe that losing a billion dollars constitutes a success.

[CrazyCougar]

We're talking Microsoft here though. Money is not an object with them. Hell the original Xbox never once made money, so if money was an object the 360 would have never come about.

I am not saying MS didnt know there were better options, but i am saying that I do not think for one moment that they would have known of a possible 50% or greater failure rate.

Again, it was a race, and I think with the success of the console and it outselling or keeping up with the PS3 would be considered a success in the eyes of MS.

[GamerSince'76]

It would be scary if it was just Sony and Nintendo. Sony would gouge the consumer left, right and centre and it wasn't that long ago that Nintendo price fixed. MS adds a good balance to the mix.

A buddy of mine is pro Sony and we were debating yesterday. He blames the PS3's woes on MS "releasing a cheap junk console". I told him if MS wasn't around he would have probably paid $900 for his console and games would be more expensive than they are now.

Then he blamed MS for developers making watered down PS3 ports. He said without MS every PS3 game could look like MGS4. I told him regardless of who is to blame, the bottom line is that most multiplatform games look like garbage on the PS3 and that Sony is claiming the PS3 is futureproof but it's not nowproof. He thinks the PS3 will overtake the 360. I told him by the time that happens, MS will release their next console and the PS3 will be competing against advanced technology.

[Symmetric-XBA]

He blames the PS3's woes on MS "releasing a cheap junk console". I told him if MS wasn't around he would have probably paid $900 for his console and games would be more expensive than they are now.

Then he blamed MS for developers making watered down PS3 ports. He said without MS every PS3 game could look like MGS4. I told him regardless of who is to blame, the bottom line is that most multiplatform games look like garbage on the PS3 and that Sony is claiming the PS3 is futureproof but it's not nowproof. He thinks the PS3 will overtake the 360. I told him by the time that happens, MS will release their next console and the PS3 will be competing against advanced technology.

Sony's PS3 isn't futureproof by anymeans b/c no one or no company can predict the technology 4-5 years down the road. This however is different b/c MS could have done R&D on the cpu/gpu chipsets which seems to be the only thing modified between 360 versions and saved themselves a billion dollars. True this is MS we're talking about and a billion to them isn't the same as a local business loosing a billion but talk to any business owner, including MS, and they will always say that loosing a billion dollars is not good.
Your friend is wrong in saying that every game could look like MGS4 b/c a) not every game uses the same graphics engine as was used to develop MGS4 b) not all developers want to code their work in blu-ray due to the fact that it is HIGHLY problematic (Even Hideo in making MGS4 blasted Sony saying that developing for their format was flawed to say it nicely) and very tedious. This is why Assassin's creed came to the 360, and thats why a lot of sony "exclusives" are headed to 360 (one of the big ones is the FF series). Developers want to stick to what they know they can produce amazing titles on and the Wii doensn't allow it, neither does the ps3, so now the 360 is raking in the bennefits from this. I guarantee though, that we would not be saying this if Sony decided not to go w/ blu-ray and instead offered a blu-ray "add on" ie: MS's hd-dvd player. I'm sick and tired of hearing from PS3 fanboys that the PS3 is FAR more powerful than the 360. Great that doesn't mean anything, you could have a ferrari but unless you have tires to get you to where you want to go its useless.

Oh, fyi. tell your PS3 fanboy friend that MGS5 = "existence". =) Latest Game Informer has a small little block on the bottom of a page where it states that MGS5 is in "existence".

[J Dub]

Microsoft will survive, and hopefully learn their lesson from this. And it's not like they don't deserve it.

[CrazyCougar]

Its also highly rumored that the MGS series is coming to the 360 platform. For now rumor, but it really could come to fruition.

[GamerSince'76]

Its also highly rumored that the MGS series is coming to the 360 platform. For now rumor, but it really could come to fruition.

I thought I saw the last of that grunting old fart.

[CrazyCougar]

Personally, I think it will happen. Why not really? Why wouldnt a company want to reap the most profit they could from a title. The only titles that you will not see make their way over would be Sony first Party titles.

Again, just rumor but one that I think someone could keep in the back of their mind.

[BananaMan]

I have a launch and it works fine.

I also had a launch day original xbox, lasted me for 5 years til it quit reading games.

[Snake Eyez]

Will the lawsuit get my Elite repaired faster...If not then it will be important for their next console.

[tsrdawg]

I have a launch and it works fine.

I also had a launch day original xbox, lasted me for 5 years til it quit reading games.

Just install a Samsung DVD Drive into your original box (that RCA was a serious turd)...and youll be good for 10 more years!

[LINKINPARK8591]

We're talking Microsoft here though. Money is not an object with them. Hell the original Xbox never once made money, so if money was an object the 360 would have never come about.

I am not saying MS didnt know there were better options, but i am saying that I do not think for one moment that they would have known of a possible 50% or greater failure rate.

Again, it was a race, and I think with the success of the console and it outselling or keeping up with the PS3 would be considered a success in the eyes of MS.


yeah wasn't MS dishing out money due to the xbox's failure to really catch on and sell? I could be wrong on this, not sure.

[Marcello]

My videogame is from the first gen. never had red lights, it works wonders, however, if it goes dead I'll have to send it all the way to the USA (I live in Brazil) cause for some non-sense reason Microsoft BR only takes the consoles sold in what is known as "The Official Brazilian Kit". Of course, I can go and sue them and make them take my console anyway, but would take more time than sending the videogame to the USA, this is BIZARRE! Plus for some reason there are times when my credit card won't bew accepted (even though it's international), and at other times it IS accepted, I have no idea why, I called MS I spent more than an hour on an international call to hear the dude give me a protocol number cause he couldn't solve my problem ¬¬